Hi, this is my first time posting but I'm in a real mess everything has escalated for so long we just can't seem to get good ground my wife's anger outbursts doesn't help anything she's had one several times in the last couple of weeks. My stepson father just committed suicide they both have ADHD. I love my wife I love my step-son I don't want to lose this marriage I just don't know what to do. My wife will not listen to me right now she won't even text me or talk to me I've been living at a friend's house for two weeks I went home today hoping that I can come back in and we can talk and that didn't happen she seemed more angrier than ever and I just don't understand why there has been no infidelity nothing like that just a stupid arguments and Outburst that is created on top of everything else. Help
Help, thrown out ! Again
Submitted by NonADHD on 07/09/2016.
I don't have any suggestions
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I don't have any suggestions right now but I do want to offer my sympathy to you, your wife, and your stepson on the death of your stepson's father. Any death is hard; suicide is horrible.
Thank you. I don't know what
Submitted by NonADHD on
Thank you. I don't know what's going on with her. All I asked was to communicate and she got frustrated and just screamed and yelled at me to get out I stayed at a friend's for 2 weeks I try to get back today she still completely upset telling me it's over. My stepson of mine really are very close I can't imagine her wanting to do this. But I have no idea what's wrong she keeps telling me that I have all the issues it's all my fault and she won't talk to me.
The Last Straw.....NonADHD
Submitted by kellyj on
I wish I could offer you more right not to ease your mind....but as a possibilities to think about here for you? There is no way everything is your fault as she says right now first off. But the stress of your relationship leading up to the suicide of your step sons father may have been more than your wife can emotionally handle along with the miscommunications and ensuing stupid arguments. He was your stop sons father after all and he was still in the picture in respect to your step son? That relationship was most likely tenuous and strained in itself due to the fact that she still had to deal with him at times whether she liked to or not for your step sons sake? Saying....there was a relationship out of necessity and now everything crashing down on her all at once. Is it possible, that your wife is just shutting down from being overwhelmed and needing the space and time to pull things back together? If so....what she says right at the moment might not be from a rational place and possibly.... taken with a grain of salt before you accept it as the gospel truth?
Saying all of this may have a lot less to do with you regardless of what she says. If you push for an explanation before she's ready...you might get that thrown back in your face and told it's all about you as she appears to be doing? ( whether that true or not....thinking...less than more possibly? ) I wouldn't give up the ship just yet and maybe see what happens by letting her come to you? Waiting will be the hardest part.= It must be an extremely uncomfortable place to be in for you and that must be tearing you apart in the mean time I can imagine? Time will tell?
J
Last
Submitted by NonADHD on
J,
Thank you. I think you may be right. We have not had an decent footing, anything solid for two years. When we get some ground, I say something that escalates into this. This isn't the first time this has happened, but, so much has changed. My wife did not like my sons father (they were never married) he wa a punk, I met him and didn't like him. He was all front, controlling, he used woman. This latest wife a doctor, even opened up a kick boxing gym for him, he thought he was some kind of martial artist, but if you looked at him, you would never think that. I think he was miserable using so many people and my step snows living in that house. My step son seems to be ok and all of us, my wife, mother in law are so happy, considering the circumstances that he's with us. My wife and I even had a short discussion right after this happened. She said, I want us to have a good home and I want you (me) to teach him sports, things were he can be playing in team sports. I'm very athletic and played baseball and football for years. I'm excited, I'm like alright !!! Needles to say, my step son never left my side. He has been right next to me, watching videos, riding bikes, outside in the garage, going in the car. It's like our prayers have been answered. He's now with us !!! But he came at a time where my wife and I a are still far from being on the same page. I'm still walking on eggshells, she is demanding, critical and extremely angry at the smallest things. If I become offensive, mention something, push a little, such as, can we communicate, can we be more affectionate, she flies off the handle and this is what just happened. So she flipped out and pulled up the trump card "get out".....no talk, no discussion. I stayed by a friends for two weeks and now I'm renting a place temporarily. I'm praying it's not too long. When the suicide happened, his wife kept calling my wife, it was very uncomfortable fr my wife, they disposed each other and she is a major controller. I say this because maybe my wife with ADHD has s much going on in her mind that she cannot deal wth me. The anger explosion. I went hme yesterday morning, thinking we can talk and I could come home, nope, she was still so angry at me. She did not want my step an to see me. Because he would have grabbed me and not understand what's going. So here I am. Not sure what's going to happen wth my marriage. I told her I love them both so much, We finally have our family, I have a step son that I can really have a great relationship wth and we are here. Pray for us, that God has a plan fr ur marriage, for my step an. I can't imagine my wife would not want the three of us to have a family.
Thank you. I don't know what
Submitted by NonADHD on
I don't know if that has anything to do with anything. My stepsons father wasn't a great guy he was psychologically abusing to both of them. He was married to their pediatrician and they just had a baby. My step son also has ADHD and I don't really think he understands exactly what happened. You would think my wife would want the three of us together and protecting him and we've even had that discussion a couple of weeks ago but my wife for some reason exploded and she so angry at me right now. The reason she exploded is because she told me that I was very offensive and all I asked was for us to communicate we haven't slept together we haven't done anything in months.
<<I know it must be other
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<I know it must be other things and she is extremely stressed over the co-care of her son. Her sons father is a major jerk, he lived off my wife and had an affair and married their pediatrician while she went to work as a Delta flight attendant. I know he and his new wife are trying to make it as miserable for her as they can. Its really sad.<<
And now, her exH has recently had a baby....and he's recently committed suicide?
And, your wife has been divorced twice before?
This latest news that your wife's ex is now dead, and she's thrown you out suggests to me that your wife had been using you. You were a prop....a stand-in. Her husband left her for another woman, she felt the need to find someone to "prove" to him that she's desirable, and now that he's dead, the need to "show him" is gone.
This is all starting to sound like you were used....just cruelly used.
Obviously there is something very disturbed about her and her ex-husband. He leaves her, but he's still not happy even though he remarries and has a baby. He's still an emotional mess, and kills himself.
Do you think you were used?
Being used
Submitted by NonADHD on
Hi overwhelmed,
no I don't think so. This whole marriage has had a rough time. My wifes family is extremely dysfunctional. I'm her third, a son wth a man she didn't marry, her mother is ex alcoholic twice divorced, cousins husband in prison, she has two kids, father killed in a car crash, my wife, son and daughter all have ADHD. Explosion and anger Are not far from the surface. I believe we can get there. I'm a strong guy, tenacious, goal oriented and I'm not giving up on this marriage, it has huge potential. But my wife needs to let go of so much anger, then ADHD doesn't help. But, everyone is in denial. I think that's why she's mad because I brought that up, that we both need to work on our issues. I can be very insecure, fear from who knows where about a lot of things, but Wife just isn't the person that I can talk to. Especially now, we are all hyper sensitive to our emotions.
Thanks
Submitted by NonADHD on
Thanks Rosered,
Everyone has been very careful and loving towards my step son, protecting him and so far he's fine. His dad has some major issues, obviously, but he made his bed and he blazed his own trail. The good news is my wife and step son are re-united and he's where he should have been all along. Its the same old story of the legal system just making stupid decision, and the main issue was giving his dad primary custody. So wrong. But things have a way of working out. My concern is my wife is pushing me out now, walls are up, up high, I cant imagine what my step son is thinking, now I'm gone. I texted her this morning, giving my support and love and she is just locked into fighting me. I want my family, I want this family, they both need me and I them, this is jot the time to do this but she is hyper-focused on keeping me out and remaining angry, and she is angry, the ADHD anger. Prayers will help, I'm praying for another unthinkable act from God, keep this marriage together, bring us under his blessing and keep us safe. You know, whenever you deviate from the norm, arguments, fighting, cheating, lies etc..it opens the door for some unchangeable life events and something that you are totally unprepared for. Such as a suicide. My wife and I have been on shaky ground, the ADHD communication, the anger, the distance, me feeling alone, rejected, sleeping in seprrate beds (only 2 years married) and here wee are. My wife is a fortress, unmoveable, and will kot budge. Its all my fault. I have no choice but to tread lightly, stay seperated, show her love and support and hope she comes aroiund. The last time I was at mother in laws for almost 2 weeks. Here I am again, stayed 2 weeks at a friends and now I'm renting. My job is going great, we finally have medical covereage which means no more CO BRA payments, we finally have some financial breathing room, we have our son and now I'm out !!! Its crazy...I feel like an outsider...
D....One Thing I Can Relate With...
Submitted by kellyj on
Even though I'm the one with ADHD....I've done a lot of work to get myself in a better place than before I was diagnosed and was petty much in the dark at that time. It's difficult for me to remember exactly how I was before...but to the point...that shutting down and withdrawing hasn't been my typical MO. This is somewhat foreign to me too. This sudden shift in attitude without explanation and refusal to talk about things or even discuss it. Both my wife and her brother are pretty horrible about communicating their needs or wanting to talk about a lot of things that there is just no way anyone is going to glean enough information from to know exactly what's on their minds. I've watched how when my wife gets together with her brother...and somehow...there is this unspoken language going on that only they seem to know between the two of them or anyone else for that matter? It's like they came from cave # 22 and only the folks from that cave know this non-comunication style yet somehow everyone knows what the other is thinking....kind of? lol
I ask a simple question and instead of a simple answer or response....you always get a non-repsonse? That is seemingly...words that come out of their mouth that are not saying anything? lol And seemingly completely unrelated to what what you just said or almost like a completely different topic ( not exactly changing the topic but not really? It's very confusing indeed? ) Sound familiar? lol I guessing this is what those stupid arguments are about since we have those too about this very thing.
This just came up the other night so I'll give you an example. Stupid or what? ( not them as much as the problem...which as I see it...there is no problem in the first place? I just don't know? lol I have figured out at least in context when I watch these two together...it must be a family dynamic that as they see it...."everyone is like this so what's your problem!!" lol (not so much:)
My wife tells me that over a year and a half ago....I did something to offend her brother that a) I don't remember very well since I had no idea there was a problem in the first place? b) no one said anything to me but it must have been a topic for discussion between the two of them and even more than once I'm assuming? You want to hear stupid....how about this one?
My wife made Scalloped potatoes to go with dinner and her brother said.."these aren't Scalloped Potatoes...there's no cheese in them?" Before I offend anyone ( lol )...she used a recipe out of a cook book. My wife told her brother that I liked Scalloped Potatoes this way instead and this is how his family ( mother made them). In my mind....I'm thinking..."Okay, you just set me up and made this about my family and along with that thinking...."who cares?". LOL
Her brother immediately responded by saying..."Scalloped potatoes have cheese in them...these aren't Scalloped Potatoes....your mother doesn't know what she's talking about." Again...."who gives a rip what you call them/"...and I like "Au Gratin Potatoes" too. That is as the French say..."with cheese and bread crumbs". lol Again....no big deal even though this was starting to get a little personal in bring that mention about my mother? And again...."so what!!!" lol
But her brother won't leave it alone. He keeps mentioning how he doesn't like this "potato dish" what ever you want to call it without cheese in it. After the third time he mentions it....I finally said.."M....when it has cheese in it...it's called Au Gratin"...and I showed him the recipe book and the recipe that said. "Scalloped" and that was that.
Oh boy...I stepped my foot in that one. Now her brother (the part I don't remember)...apparently was visibly upset over this even though he didn't say a word except more complaints about the potatoes not having cheese in it but with more vigor than before. All I knew...was that I didn't care what you call them and all of this was not a big deal either way for me? What I was getting annoyed about...was him repeating the same thing over and over like he was trying to communicate something more than just what he was saying and trying to get this unspoken point across? Seemingly? lol
I finally said something like...."Next time M....we can have Au Gratin Potatos if you like....I like both so I don't care either way? The comment (from his sister) was only saying that this was the WAY my mom made them and I like them this way ....but I like them pretty much...anyway they come no matter how their made?" Thinking this might just defuse this situation about what you call this dish and I wasn't going to get into it with him over something this ridiculous and maybe...this would shut him up by not taking a stand and saying I like them the way he likes them too and we don't have to have them this way by any means?
Not only did this not ease my brother in laws tension...apparently...I broke some cardinal rule and this was some major offense to my brother in law never forgot about? lol
And as my wife tried to explain this to me and said I was being insensitive to her brother and not reading or paying attention to his non verbal body language or I wouldn't have said what I said....I told her " Not really, I read him and saw he was irritated over something...but as I saw it...he was irritated that somehow...we didn't know he did not like "this dish"...without cheese it. That part was painfully obvious to me since he kept saying the same thing over and over...I still don't know what I did to offend him even now? What did I say?"
She said " I shouldn't have mentioned the word "Au Gratin"...and I shouldn't have said that Au Gratin means "with cheese." And then I said it again which put her brother over the edge?
Somehow....when her brother said."This isn't Scalloped Potatoes unless there's cheese in it"...and kept repeating that he doesn't like it when there's no cheese in "this dish"...and even though my wife agrees with me that Au Gratin Potatoes is actually what you call this dish instead of Scalloped Potatoes and she knows that this is right....she also knows...as she said it to me...to never to say what is true with her brother...and to agree with him no matter what whether it's right or wrong in what he thinks it is regardless. And somehow...he is trying to say something else hidden in there which sounded vaguely like and insult thrown at myself and my mother since....we liked it different than he does...and everyone who likes it different than he does is just wrong? lol
And somehow...I'm suppose to know this without anyone telling me that when her brother keeps repeating this over and over...what he's really doing is saying...."how wrong you are...because I don't like it this way." Which makes absolutely no sense what so ever?? lol And since this is what he was saying...which in million years I'm not going to know that ahead of time....I'm not reading this situation or her brother...and know this is what he is saying even though this is not what he said??
And since I didn't understand this..(or even care like I said ) I inadvertently pointed to the cook book which was open sitting on the counter and showed him where he was "wrong"...which is not what I was doing? I was merely in a very innocuous ....trying to end the conversation ( and her brothers expounding ) by establishing the difference between the two so we could end it and move on.
As I see both my wife and her brother at times...they say things in a way...that is showing contempt for liking anything they don't like..and think everyone who doesn't like what they like is some kind of threat! lol This is exactly what this is saying....without saying it. And you on the receiving end...are suppose to know this from "This isn't Scalloped Potatoes unless it has cheese in it." And that's it and all your going to get aside from.."I don't like it without cheese."....which is the only part that I was absolutely sure of without question? lol
Of all the things that I would ever care to get upset over....what you call potatoes is on the lowest line on my priority list I could ever imagine?? lol Is this a stupid thing or what? Any argument of debate about this is a) not one I would ever bring up or want to argue over and it completely doesn't matter what you call them as long as they're hot and on my plate. With cheese or without!!! LOL
And b)...."I don't care!!! lol" I did try and explain the problem here to my wife since this is very much like many of the things we get in arguments over since.....I can't read minds...but expectation is that I can?
I'm arguing that I can't read minds....and she's arguing that I should be able to....plus...I'm not very good at reading cues and learning to read people better and be more sensitive and I wouldn't run into these problems in the first place. OMG!!! lol
What I'm really thankful for all things considered....is what I do remember was the slight towards myself and apparently my mother and anyone who made Scalloped potatoes and by following the recipe and not putting cheese in it..and almost said...."my Mom also fed mayonnaise to Tuna we kept in a tank in the backyard so you won't have to add it later when you you make tuna salad sandwiches."
But I thought better of that since....I was actually reading that her brother...would probably not have found that very funny...all things considered and I was right. lol So you see...I did read that situation and didn't say what I was going to say because of it.
And yet her brother is still holding the "Au Gratin" mention against me since this offended him. You can't win for losing with these two sometimes. I totally get those stupid arguments you were talking a about and feel your pain. Which is also why I don't have a lot to offer you since I'm as in the dark sometimes in these moments as you are?
I hope making light of this situation with my brother in law somehow compares to what is happening with you. I can and can't imagine what this is like for you right now aside from the being in the dark. At least you can know...you aren't alone her by any means. Good luck with your situation...and let us know what happens. Based on the story of the Au Gratin debacle....I'm still holding to not saying anything and not pushing the issue for the exact same reasons which still makes no sense to me what so ever:)
Actually....feeding mayonnaise to tuna fish makes more sense to me but no one is asking me anything anyway!! lol
J
Your brother in law was a
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Your brother in law was a guest in your home and he complained (repeatedly) about how a dish was cooked? If so, then he's the one at fault....100%. Doesn't matter if the dish was supposed to have cheese in it ...or not. The hostess/cook has the right to cook it any way she (or he) likes, and guests need to shut up and be gracious.
Actually, at this point, your wife needs to tell her brother that this was in your home, and that he (her brother) was wrong for even commenting on the dish, much less repeatedly.
Jeez!!!
Tuna Fish.....OW
Submitted by kellyj on
OW....Here's the problem as I've come to understand this better myself. The problem is how we read people and our own ability to do it more often than not. If I only said this about myself...then I would state that empirically without a shadow of doubt because I'm not reading this situation with my wife and her brother accurately...not that I not picking up on verbal ques as my wife (conveniently pulled out the hat in her remembering reading this about people with ADHD). Further...she is around a lot of IDD people in the work she does and also has had some exposure to people with Autism/Asperber syndrome or on "the spectrum" as they say.
I recently heard this said in a show I was watching and remembered it since it summed this up so well...
"If we assume we see the Devil.....we will never understand or read that person correctly. If they lie...listen to the lies instead." That was beautiful and perfectly spoken I think.
In an article I just read about this...there was a section in it that also speaks directly to this problem
"
When I finally resolved to bring that focus and clarity to my personal life, it made sense to start by comparing the courthouse with the world outside. I was determined to figure out what I was doing in the courtroom that enabled me to read people in that setting with such consistent accuracy. I thought I should be able to distill that information into a set of people-reading basics that would work anywhere.
"When I told my colleagues about the great difference between my people-reading successes on and off the job, I found I wasn't alone. Many of the best attorneys I knew confessed that, while they enjoyed great success reading people in court, the rest of the time they didn't do much better than anyone else. Why?
The conclusions I eventually reached led me to the keys of "reading readiness" -- the foundation of understanding people and predicting their behavior. The first thing I discovered was that attitude is critical. In a courtroom, I was ready to focus fully on the people I encountered, to listen to them closely, to observe the way they looked and acted, and to carefully think about what I was hearing and seeing. I had a very different attitude in my private life; I rarely did any of those things. The fact is, you have to be ready to read people, or all the clues in the world won't do you any good.
In this chapter, you'll learn how to bring a courtroom state of mind -- clear-eyed, observant, careful, and objective -- into the emotional, subjective drama that is everyday life. Master the following skills, and you'll be ready to read people.
1. Spend more time with people. That's the best way to learn to understand them.
2. Stop, look, and listen. There's no substitute for patience and attentiveness.
3. Learn to reveal something of yourself. To get others to open up, you must first open up to them.
4. Know what you're looking for. Unless you know what you want in another person, there's a good chance you'll be disappointed.
5. Train yourself to be objective. Objectivity is essential to reading people, but it's the hardest of these seven skills for most of us to master.
6. Start from scratch, without biases and prejudices.
7. Make a decision, then act on it.
Jo-Ellan Dimitrius came into the nation's consciousness through her work on the O. J. Simpson trial, and for 15 years she has tried to predict the behavior of thousands of jurors, witnesses, lawyers, and judges.
Reading this article made me feel a little better about this after reading that even these trial lawyers weren't much better in doing this than anyone else in their personal lives. If I read the list of set skills here...I pretty much suck at some of them...and the other ones aren't that much better if I look at myself objectively as it says.
What you are absolutely right in saying....is that my brother in law was basically being rude and not having very good social graces in that particular situation. Neither did my wife in respect to me and the overall situation as she really opened that door wide open and just invited her brother right in. This part....I clearly didn't miss!! lol
I've learned more from watching what happens when her brother and her get together...than any other time in trying to understand my wife. What happened at least in the past ( like the potato incident)...is I wasn't ready for what I experienced. In essence....these two start tag teaming you and hit you by surprise! lol That's exactly what happened but that was really the first time I can remember.
But now my wife is using this example again....to support her notion that I'm the one who can't read cues or am not "attuning myself" better to them but that isn't the problem. They might be attuned to each other....but they are both basically "un-attunable" and blaming others for not being attuned to them. That's really the problem and a lot less than anything that has to do with my ADHD. Despite my inconsistencies and not paying attention at times....my wife isn't going to convince me that I don't read situations well. Actually...it's the reverse of this that's true. The only thing I failed to do at the time with her brother...was predict him and understand this enough ahead of time in order to apply it. While I might have thought about this enough...not to say the word "Au Gratin" and not respond to him the way I did....you're still not going to convince me that what he or my wife did was legitimate and pretty obviously flawed in their own thinking about this.
What if you told everyone, everywhere you go exactly what you think about the clothes they wear? "Man that dress makes you look fat. What were you thinking????" LOL You'd pretty much go over like a lead balloon everywhere you go and wonder why no one likes you??? LOL (Duh!!) LOL
This is where I have to resist making my "Tuna Fish" analogies because they are right on the tip of my tongue. That does nothing...but throw gas on the fire and is completely passive aggressive on my part...in a pretty overt way that many might get in context....but not my brother in law for sure. He really is ignorant of the concept of manners and that right there is really the problem.
But the problem is when my wife gets with him...is she'll start doing it too since now she has someone doing the same thing with her and they both start doing it.
"Either your with us...or against us. Who wants to fight!!"
Not me....but learning to read these two together...and then my wife when she comes to me trying to legitimately say I need to pay better attention to her and be attuned to her sometimes...is trying to use a really bad example of how not to do it....and trying to say that I need to learn this better. As I see this....not so much in comparison. LOL
In reality....you're dealing with a lot of shame an insecurity on her brothers part....but at the same time...he's a royal pain the in the ass to be around because you can never relax and feel comfortable in trying to predict him and not say the wrong thing.
The advise I'm not going to use...is the one my wife gave me "don't ever disagree with him no matter what he says..and never say he's wrong."
I call Bullshit on that one too. Why do you think there's this problem in the first place if you stop and think about it? What I missing but learning better to do...is get more skilled at doing this differently than just calling him (or my wife) out directly which seems at times....exactly what they want. They're looking for a fight...and wanting you as a sparring partner.
More so for my brother in law in an more extreme and overt way....I see this in my wife at times to a much lessor degree since she is at least more diplomatic about it. Diplomatic...but none the less hurtful before I could see this for what it is. The biggest problem I have...is getting caught with my proverbial "pants down around my ankels."
I'm learning these as I go...and getting better all the time:) (even though it still pisses me off!!! lol )
link http://www.cnn.com/books/beginnings/9807/reading.people.cnn/index.html
J
are you the goat?
Submitted by dancermom on
J - When you thought your wife just dissed you and your mom to explain why the cheese was missing - I think you were right on. I think she DID diss you and your mom, to play the game called "let's save face" for her brother. So, the part you didn't read was, "poor fragile brother, we can't tell the truth since he would feel foolish. Instead we will tell a little lie."
What you did was not play along, refuse to tell a lie, refuse to be dissed, and go ahead and show evidence that her brother had been confused all his life about what your cookbook and official sources call "au gratin potatoes." Your wife was willing to let you take the fall to save her fragile brother. If it's not personal scapegoating, then you and your wife would be "in the know" and colluding together to protect her brother from the awareness he can't handle. You and your wife would be in the power position together, you who both know what's really going on. The brother would be in the he's "being humoured" position, kind of left out of the real knowledge behind the scenes. Or he might be viewed as dangerous and volatile, and in her world, everyone should know you never disagree with him, only smooth over.
Does she smooth over with you, too? Tell you lies to save face (supposedly to make you feel better, but also to avoid conflict)? Is she an equal opportunity conflict avoider or are you usually the scapegoat, taking the fall? Never being protected by your wife?
Thanks For Bringing This To The Attention It Deserves
Submitted by kellyj on
Dancermom,
You bring up a really good point. Actually several as I see it, which makes this even clearer. As you said it and I completely agree with you..."I think she DID diss you and your mom, to play the game called "let's save face" for her brother. So, the part you didn't read was, "poor fragile brother, we can't tell the truth since he would feel foolish. Instead we will tell a little lie."
A little more background to fill this in for you. This is the same co-dependent dance that they came from with their mother paving the way here and was their example and a rather bad one on top of it.
If you think about...the lessons our parents taught us. These were the lessons they learned. The unspoken language and rules that were not said but learned by example.
Save face for mom at all costs. Don't say or do anything that will upset Mom or she will cut you off and not love you. If you do....you'll be sorry. Mom will throw you under the bus and scapegoat you if you step out of line or draw attention to yourself or want the attention that Mom needs much more than you. Mom is fragile, Mom is the victim here not you. Everyone come save Mom or else Mom won't Love you. Don't make Mom jealous by having more than Mom. Moms got it harder than you. Mom has to work and pay the bills just to support you and put food on the table. Mom will one up you and copy you and get the same dress, the same coat, the same of everything that you get plus more on top of it. Mom needs everything to be about her at all times and if it isn't. There will be a price to pay. Mom will beg, borrow or steal attention any way she can including blackmailing her own children in order to do this. If it wasn't for you children...Mom would be much better off. If you want anything from Mom, you'll have to prove that your worthy of Moms love. Come back tomorrow....Moms far too busy for you right now. Moms always sick or indisposed when you need her. But never too busy or sick to do what Mom wants or needs. Don't get sick yourself however...Mom doesn't like that. Do as I say...not as I do. Mom knows what's best for everyone. Don't ask why. Do as you're told. Pay no attention to that woman behind the curtain. The great and powerful Mom has spoken:)
And the spoken lessons that they learned which were all just rationalizations supporting their mothers position yet spoken with authority from a source that can be trusted.
People are all out to get what you have especially men.
You can't trust people and they will steal you blind if you turn your back on them but especially men. Trust me instead...I'm the only one who Loves you and no one else will ever Love you like I do. Remember that.
(and actual quote said to my wife) "You'll never get the man you want because you're not much to look at." (really speaking about herself which was actually true ) My wife is much better endowed physically (in every way) and more attractive than her mother and her mother was jealous of this fact.
Plus...my wife and brother were a product of her first husband that she despised and hated for who knows what...but what little I've heard...he was no prince for sure.
But having said that....her mother did her best to erase that blemish to her record of having by having to leave him (the embarrassment and shame of divorce in those days ) and to save face once again by using their father as a "tool" and just another scapegoat in order to do this. Who knows what happened there? I'm not assuming it was all her father in fact....I'm assuming that their father had some issues that might have brought shame to her in respect to her family and that was completely unacceptable. Time to find a new one who doesn't have these flaws and is more perfect. (the repeating pattern long after my wife and brothers father was gone, remarried and lived out of state )
More likely than not from what I've seen and what little I heard that no one knew except their mother. I saw their mother and saw her in action and actions speak louder than words. No mater what my wife's mother said to the contrary....she was always right in the middle of everything that ever went wrong with her. That what I saw and I'm thinking this pattern had never changed. I'd put money down on that bet in favor of her mom as much if not more than anything else.
For my wife's younger brother...their Mom did such a good job of erasing their father from their lives and painted such a horrible picture of him (again..her brother resembled their father)....that when her brother went to elementary school...his teacher came to my wife only two years older (not their mother...this was weird as my wife recalls it...but not in context to what I said however) and told my wife that her younger brother was telling stories of all these great times he and their father spend together fishing and camping to doing activities...and created this fantasy and told these stories about he and their father that the teacher knew that none of was true. This is heart breaking to think about?
This is like Narcissism 101 here with their mother. My wife...was made responsible for her younger brother and was taught how to take care of him by the same Narcissist herself. All roads loop back to one source for everything.... which was just a clever way of not taking responsibility again and teaching my wife how to do this with the least amount of effort or negative impact on her as she possibly good and using shame and guilt in order to keep her in line.
The brother on the other hand ( and I heard this too ) resembled their father in a way that her mother scape goated him because he was male...and looked like their father more than my wife did who didn't look as much like either one of them which might make you question? I know this is not true....but it actually was with their mother.
As it was never openly talked about....their mother...was actually the by product of another man during World War II (as it's been speculated since no one was admitting it) But doesn't look like any of the other children in her family and was the scapegoat for that herself too. What goes around comes around. Shame is a powerful weapon if used to save face and make appearances to compensate for what is hidden and not wanting to be exposed to the truth.
What you did was not play along, refuse to tell a lie, refuse to be dissed, and go ahead and show evidence that her brother had been confused all his life about what your cookbook and official sources call "au gratin potatoes."
Your wife was willing to let you take the fall to save her fragile brother. And to be more accurate...her brother and the rest of the family...are all willing to let anyone take the fall except for their mother or father.... and since my wife is next in line...her brother does this with her too. I've seen him do it and was outraged by it but when confronted...my wife said I was selfish and her and her brother do this for each other and he would never do anything intentionally to hurt her. That may be true....but what I saw her brother do...was falsify a legal document by making my wife the scapegoat. It didn't go anywhere and it resolved itself Okay. But if it didn't and things did not go as planned....my wife would have been implicated and held responsible for her brother doing this without her consent. which never seemed to register with either one of them but epically on my wife's part. They do it do each other equally when ever someone needs to take responsibility for something else needs to take responsibility other than themselves and this just doesn't register as being wrong to do. Her brother..is still like my wife's own son in respect to being a dependent..and the guilt and shame thrust on her is still keeping her and him in that same role when ever they're together.
If it's not personal scapegoating, then you and your wife would be "in the know" and colluding together to protect her brother from the awareness he can't handle. You and your wife would be in the power position together, you who both know what's really going on.
The brother would be in the he's "being humoured" position, kind of left out of the real knowledge behind the scenes. This would be true if it weren't for these unfortunate facts. What hurt at first...was feeling betrayed by my wife in service of her brother. Now...I see it....and it just makes me angry. Her loyalty will go to her first responsibility and blood is thicker than water and I will get thrown under the bus unless I find a way to bring my wife to the same understanding as I have. She vacillates and gets confused about her roles with her brother and that's just the aftermath of this kind of abuse growing up at the hands of a very Narcissist and self serving woman.
And no....my wife is supportive of me and is protective of me in many ways which is not like this which I want no part of. This kind of co-dependent kind of protection is not what I want or need at all. What I need is for someone to have my back....what I don't need is someone to make me their dependent or vise versa. That kind of protection is no protection at all and is more self serving than anything else.
As it would appear....her mother would have been better off with a trained monkey all things considered. At least you could feed it peanuts....it will dance and entertain you on demand... and it will always Love you and be dependent on you for everything and never leave you no matter what.
My wife may struggle still from the after math of her existence...but I see and hear her say things that tell me that she is trying her best...not to be like this herself. I can't say I'm not the same in many ways and I do understand it. The one thing I'm not going to be very understanding or tolerant about fitting her brother into that slot between myself and my wife. Her brothers a big boy....he can take care of himself without my wife doing that for him. The problem is....my wife still feels guilty and responsible...for not doing a better job when they were young and competing with her brother back then and not full filling a job that was never her's in the first place. This is what I'm trying my best to remind myself of and working to change that relationship she has which will take care of this issue by itself if we can work on this together instead of me....falling into that role that will only be the end of us if I do.
I honesty believe and see my responsibility to her and myself....by not doing that for any reason not matter how hard that is to overcome...and no matter how hard my wife and my brother try and rationalize their way into convincing me other wise. Either that or she'll leave me but my gut tells me that this is not going to happen. What will happen...is more resistance and irrational logic. That much I can count on for sure if not for a little while at the very least. Time will tell and patience is a necessity. If that doesn't work....I can always revert to my old stand by and become aggressively passive aggressive and throw that back in their face with my biting sarcasm and humor. I really am just kidding but...sometimes...I have to laugh at myself and just not say it:) lol
I may be posting more comedy and satire here in the forum as a way in order to do this. Probably a better idea? lol
J
J, describing my H' s mother
Submitted by dedelight4 on
You aptly described my husbands mother. She was an eternal victim, and was always unhappy, making sure she complained to her children on a daily basis how horrible their father was, and how horrible anyone of them was if they didn't pacify her. But, there WAS no pacifying her. Come to find out she was bi-polar but went undiagnosed until her Alzheimer's diagnosis. But due to her examples in how to live, act, and react to situations, my husband and his siblings followed in her footsteps And did the same. But, none of them could see their behavior either, even though they didn't like what their mother did. Interesting
Dede....Bipolar
Submitted by kellyj on
My wifes Mom was Bipolar too, coincidence? Or is this just the effect this has? I've wondered about my wife as well. But as I see it from what little I know.....this is still the trickle down effect for you H and my wife as you said. I wonder however....if this is not just a matter of degree there too? It's sooo interesting, how this plays out to be just the opposite of what you might think even for the nest generation who likes it even less.
As my T said which is something that I've really become aware of in myself. The abused...takes a piece of the abuser along with them even if you're not like this yourself. It comes out and shows itself at the most inopportune times. It's all about awareness and learning to recognize and control it. No awareness....no control.
J
J, forgot to add this
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thanks for the reply, J. It made me remember what I was going to say with the first post. His mother lived with us for 3years until her Alzheimer's became too much for me to handle. She was PUT in a beautiful home for the elderly and she received excellent care there. I'd go visit her often, and for the first time she had done a little self reflection. It didn't last long because the Alzheimer's advanced and she forgot everything. But in a lucid time, which lasted a few months, she said to me on 3 different occasions, "Bill would have been a much better husband if I had been a better wife."
She was talking about her husband/ my H's father. It was an incredible moment for me, and her. I'm glad I was there to hear it, And that she said it to someone. I told my husband about it and also his sister. His sister was amazed But was sad that SHE didn't get to hear it herself, since they,had such a strained relationship. Sad.
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Submitted by JustMeeee on
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