Submitted by Laurad on 06/25/2017.
I'm new here and really struggling. My husband and I have been together since high school and I love him very much. We have 2 kids and I genuinely want our marriage to survive. I have always thought that he was a bit different, and, over he past year I have come to realise that his symptoms match exaptly to those of ADHD. For the sake of our marriage I need to speak to him about it. He needs treatment as his untreated symptoms are causing huge problems in our marriage. I feel very down. How do I broach this subject with I'm? He has no idea that I think this and won't take it well when and if I broach the subject with him. I just don't know what to do.
For Laurad - How to Broach the Subject of ADHD.
Submitted by Janenna on
I'm curious as to why you think your husband will not take it well if you suggest the possibility of his having ADHD. I am the partner with ADHD. I found out by chance when I had depression. The doctor whom I saw guessed that I might have ADHD, gave me a basic diagnostic test - and I ticked almost all the relevant boxes. :-) I was in my fifties and for me, the diagnosis came as a huge relief. There's a book about adult ADHD whose title is "You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?!" and I think it reflects EXACTLY the feelings of many ADHD sufferers upon diagnosis! Suddenly, there is an explanation for what they've always considered (or others have told them are) their "character failings". Certainly, this was the case for me. It even helped the clinical depression, which was caused partly by my feelings of incompetence and inadequacy.
I hope that your husband might feel the same way. If you don't feel able simply to suggest it to him, perhaps you fcould find an article that you could perhaps just "happen" to read and share with him, saying that it seems to "fit" him and wonder aloud whether it might be worth his trying one of the online tests, to see whether his answers match the ADHD ones. (Or somehow phrase it in some other way that will indicate that a lot of "yes" answers will somehow be a sign of success, rather than failure. :-))
Is your husband from a family where any illness is seen as a weakness? I have a relative whose husband suffers from chronic depression and who refused to get treatment for this reason. She endured the resulting emotional abuse for years, until she herself reached breaking point. It was only then, when she decided to leave the marriage, that her husband finally agreed to get treatment. He is now on the appropriate medication and is a different man. It has transformed both their lives and, of course, their marriage. I so wish that she had taken a stand years ago, and I'm sure that she does, too.
However much love there is, ADHD, too, can make life very difficult for the non-ADHD spouse - as many of the posts here show. ADHD medication has made a big difference to my life, and, I am sure, to that of my own family. So even though you fear your husband's reaction when you share your suspicions with him, I am sure that in the long run, it will be well worth it. Especially since it sounds as though your children are still quite young. I believe that your family's life will be happier post-diagnosis.
I asked my counselor (a qualified doctor) what exactly ADHD was, and she explained the physical cause to me, and exactly how the medication helped, which I found interesting. If, in common with some other men, your husband has an irrational fear of mental illness it might be helpful for you to look into the physical aspects of ADHD and the medication, so that you can head this fear off at the pass.
Janenna This Was Some Very Good Insight
Submitted by kellyj on
Having gone through the same experience you had yourself, I can only concur with everything you've said here including my own reaction to finding out I had ADHD. That was nearly 17 years ago and for me, it's even difficult to remember exactly how I was ( all the time ) before I found out and went on medication. I can only add that the difference is and was dramatic from before. And really, the only reason I've had to go back and revisit the past again is now for my wife, who is unofficially diagnosed by myself and suspect by other people as well as having ADHD and possibly some related issues. What was good for me to hear were your thoughts on families who might see mental illness as a sign of weakness which I am beginning to see comes from some real deep seated fears of being seen by other people in a light that might mean being shunned, ignored or rejected which for someone who had that experience in the past within their family especially I think what goes around comes around in family dynamics like that. The thing you fear most, is the very thing that everyone will reject you for and in a very real way, it is exactly what happens......you will be rejected or even "cast out" in the family or worse....."scapegoated" and made to feel like the lesser person or the "one with the problem". Ironically ( in fact ) it might be the very people who have it themselves ....as the ones doing this to the other members of the family either to make themselves feel better about themselves...by putting other people down ( which raised their own self esteem ) by doing it this way.
I can say this much myself about that kind of dynamic. This sounds like some personality qualities that are less than desirable when you think of someone needing to put others "down" in order to make themselves feel better about themselves. And to the point, if someone is really that insecure about themselves and really feels that low about themselves.....they will do this ( I believe ) to the level that they feel this way themselves in a very disproportionate way to even say "bullying". Bullying, would be the pinacle....for a person who feels this little or low about themselves....that they have to "pick on " others...to make themselves feel good. Phobias do come from somewhere and the kernel of truth within that "somewhere" is.....that this is not part of being human to a certain degree and especially growing up, this is simply part of being human. I ...you....and everyone on the planet...does this to a certain degree in subtle ways and not so subtle ways...and even in "good ways" too. In "good ways"....in the right circumstances and if used appropriately....it can and does give others the ability to say " hey, you're being a ( blank )....." which if you are being a ( blank ).....then this is how humans communicate this out in the open by being honest about it. If you in essence "shun" people appropriately in an open and honest way.....you are actually doing them a favor or even being kind to them when appropriate, but only when it is ( in the essence of it )...."deserved" if that person, child or anyone for that matter, needs to called on the carpet, and taken down a notch. In school ....teachers do this. In sports....coaches do this and at home....parents do this with their children but with the intention and with that persons best interest ( as well as yours, the offended party ) in mind both at the same time. If this is done appropriately and at the proper time right when the offender or transgressor does something that is either rude, not thoughtful, inconsiderate ( what ever it is ).....it is simply a normal reaction and response by the offended party ...to take that person down a notch and "wash their head " so to speak. And in a normal healthy give and take kind of relationship in a trusting environment.....this is a very normal thing to do and I can't imagine anyone...not doing this at different times every appropriately.
Appropriately would be for example.....someone cutting in front of you in line...and you tapping them on the shoulder and telling them what they just did? If they were unaware ( as I have done many times ) that there was a line and they just didn't notice it, then they will immediately respond with something like " oh ...excuse me, I didn't notice. Sorry" and one would expect that person to go to the back of line with a smile a a "pardon me" attitude. No harm....no foul? And everyone in line who saw this, one might assume, would feel the same way? No harm, no foul....it was an oversight and no one was trying to cheat or cut in front with that intention and the incident goes no where and there is nothing more to say? The "offender"...clearly, didn't mean to and with no intention.....it was simply an oversight? And if the line is really a short one of say one or two people in a grocery store....the other people in line may not say anything and even if it is noticed say..."go ahead, I'm in no hurry" as a means to let this incident slide on by without it every creating any problems for anyone. This kind of give and take attitude if everyone is playing ball together....is how to get around this "slights" whether it be "on purpose" or by "accident or oversight". And the way, and the means....this gets communicated in that moment, can be done in many different ways. Some people are more direct than others and some people use "put downs" as a means to communicate this in a way to "shun and shame" a person as the way they go about it. Shunning and shaming is in fact....accusing someone of guilt, seeing them as guilty and then using some kind of judgment or "name calling" in order to do this very thing. All of it, is in an effort....directed at another person to put them down and do it in a way, to show them they are guilty of a "said crime" or offense. The problem as I see it....is not exactly even how or what is being said....the problem is assuming...and when you assume wrong.....then you're the one left holding the bag and the one who should feel ashamed in that case? If you assume the person who cut in line....."knows what they are doing"...and they "know there is a line and they are trying to "cheat"" and you go to them and say "Hey asshole, what are you trying to pull here!! You're just a piece of shit cheater and you're a horrible person" When in fact, in that situation....this person merely was not aware of better.....maybe only wanted to ask the counter or attendant a question and not take "cuts at all?" If there has been no offense yet...or the person in line "assumes" this is exactly what that person is doing......then that person is going to look pretty silly and make a fool of themselves in front of the rest of the people in line? Expecially say, if the person was merely trying to ask a question and not take "cuts" at all? And to the point I'm making.....these are everyday situations and everyday interactions that happen, and do happen all the time. Normally, people don't over react and jump the gun...and get in some ones face like the last scenario...since there is a certain amount of grace given or at least, benefit of the doubt....allowed until you know more about what that persons motives are, and what they are really trying to do and what there true intentions are? If they are just obvious, then there is NO intention and they are just acting unconscious or unaware...that they just cut in front of the line? Any and all these possibilities are real and everyone has experienced some version of this and does all the time in everyday interactions with people...and anything is possible at that point? That is where the kernal of truth comes from since everyone has experienced this at some point in time. And, will again in the future...any time there are other people involved and you are all trying to "share" space together in an organized fashion. Polite rules of etiquette...are the means we use to know what to do in those cases and for those who don't follow those rules, then they ae considered "rude". And sometimes, there are "rude people" who don't care if they cut in line. Sometimes, some people will do it and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks? ( for what ever reason they come up with in their minds ) they simply don't care?
But the point in painting those different pictures as possible ways to dealing with things and avoiding conflict with others, is to simply point out...that "putting people down"...is not necessarily a "bad thing" automatically. How you do it, when you do it and how often you do it....makes all the difference in the world. There are "appropriate ways" to do things and "inappropriate ways" too which is exactly what I got from what you said, but also saying ....this is a real problem at times...for someone who grew up in a family or had a family member who used this inappropriately to simply makes themselves feel better about themselves. If someone is doing this "all the time" as means to chip away at someone to bring them down "below" themselves in order to bring themselves "up" by bringing "others down"......then this can become a chromic pattern in how that person operates and in a family dynamic.....if you person does it, then everyone will tend to follow along? And in that kind of environment.....the low man on the totem pole will be the one who is scapegoated and used as a means to ridicule, "pick on", "single out" and abuse. And the likely candidate, is going to be the "weaker one" of the bunch. When the family dynamic is one more like "Lord of the Flies"....then this kind of toxic shame environment, will produce a group or family...who seem to all accept this as normal. Or normal up to the point....that no one really sees just what is happening and just how harmful "everyone in the family" is being? If this is the only "family" you know, then the assumption is....that all families are like this...which they certainly are not. Someone who comes from ( as I see it ) this kind of barbaric family environment....is going to have quite a shock and even be disillusioned when they discover that everyone esle is not like this? The level of "trust" that it "won't be this way and that other people aren't like their family and what they know as "normal" will take a great deal of transitioning away from believing that everyones intentions are dishonorable in the same way? As a means to "hurt you" to put you down...and use you as the scapegoat or punching bag for the group to pick on and use for that purpose. The anxiety, fear and lack of trust that comes from someone living in this kind of environment....will have a very hard time believing anything different, until they experience that difference ( first hand for themselves ) If they have never experienced this kind of "difference" with other people of within their own personal relationships...then a person like that will be very difficult to broach of the subject of them having anything wrong with them? If a person who came from that kind of environment ( family situation ) then if they were picked on and singled out and scape goated growing up for something that the group saw as a weakness....then come time, they find out later in life....that there was a reason for this and that reason is say ADHD....then all their worst fears and worst feelings will be validated.....that there is something wrong with them...there was something wrong with them......and now, they realize....they deserved it all along? They deserved to be punished, picked on, ridiculed and scape goated. There was reason they deserved it now....and the family doing this, just told them that by how they treated them? In fact ( like the person who cut in line by accident )....their family in how they dealt with that....was to all point a finger at that person and call them a "dirty rotten cheater....a good for nothing cheater who is always trying to "cut in line"" If that is how a family like that operates...and how they deal with that very common experience.......then in that kind of family situation, judgment, accusation and "you're guilty first" before they know all the facts ( since they're really doing it to make themselves feel better about themselves all along ) but the person on the receiving end of that...does not know that? All they know, is they were called a "dirty rotten, good for nothing "cheater"....and now later when they are given a diagnosis of ADHD....suddenly....they're worst fears are realized. Now "they ARE...a dirty rotten good for nothing" person....just like their family told them all along. And the problem in this case .....was not them, but the family in that case? In a family who uses this kind of approach ...where everyone feels better about themselves....when they can find someone to "single out" as "not as good.....poorer or worse" than they are....then it really is "everyone else" that';s the problem in this case....and not the person who was being singled out...."as the problem" In the reality of that kind of environment...where this "Lord of the Flies" dynamic exists.....it's the Lord of the Flies: who are the problem....not the weak one at the bottom of the totem pole of at the bottom of the "pecking order". This entire "pecking order" mentality...is full of people "pecking at each other". "Pecking" and"poking" and "proding" each other, in a none stop tit for tat....I hit you, you hit me...we all hit each other kind of way? And "weakness" means....the one at the bottom or the weakest one....is going to get "pecked on" "abused" and picked on the most? In this kind of "barbaric" family dynamic.....everyone is a "pecker" and if you want to survive you learn to "peck back". It's this none stop....."poking, prodding, pecking....peck peck peck......" is what does all the damage to your self esteem oveer time? Or it can, unless you are aware of it..and change or do something about that yourself? No one can actually make you lose your self esteem....but if you never had any to begin with...and you were "pecked to death" right from the start....then "any pecking" is "bad pecking"....since you've simply been "pecked" right out of existence?
Even the word "peck"...brings to mind the word "Peckish":( meaning )"somewhat hungry," literally "disposed to peck," 1785, from peck (v.) + -ish. Related: Peckishly ; peckishness. also :peckish - easily irritated or annoyed; "an incorrigibly fractious young man" Further "Fractious" ( meaning )irritable and quarrelsome.
"they fight and squabble like fractious children"
synonyms:grumpy, bad-tempered, irascible, irritable, crotchety, grouchy, cantankerous, short-tempered, tetchy, testy, curmudgeonly, ill-tempered, ill-humored, peevish, cross, waspish, crabby, crusty, prickly, touchy
informal snappish, cranky, ornery, mean
"fractious children"
antonyms:contented, affable
(of a group or organization) difficult to control; unruly.
synonyms:wayward, unruly, uncontrollable, unmanageable, out of hand, obstreperous, difficult, headstrong, recalcitrant, intractable.
And the bottom line here as a means to bring this full circle is, this entire dynamic only breeds contempt. If everyone in the family dynamic is playing this kind of game....then everyone is guilty...for creating these things themselves. What goes around, comes around....and this is what you get, when you assume , make people guilty before knowing the facts....then judge them in a means to make yourself feel better at the other persons expecse. And the person at the bottom of the totem pole ( shit rolls down hill ) will be the bearer of "all the shit" for the entire family...which would tend to make a peson a little cranky and irritated after a while? Nothing they hear, that is not good news....is just adding on more straw to the camels back? And that would be the straw that breaks the camels back....if they've had to live with that and now come to find out.....that everything they were told is true? The are what they were told...and now they have no excuse or no defense for being the way they are? If the way they are....IS the way everyone was and now they are that way too.....they just got the worst news they could ever hear....since this only confirms everything they were told, and now they have to accept that they are this "horrible, good for nothing, rotten cheater" who can't be trusted no to "cut in line"....like all the other "dirty rotten filhty low life scum bags" who "cheat" qnd take cuts in line? But fact was.....they simple weren't paying attention, and were not aware of the line to begin with? Their only crime or only offense the entire time was simply not being aware of the line and there was no intention on their part what so ever? And yet, at the end of the day and years later......they still believe their family and the "Lord of the Flies" in that case. It's the "Lord of the Flies" and the that dynamic....( and everyone in it ) that is the cause and the ones to blame for this originally. For someone who came from the "Lord of the Flies" kind of household or family dynamic "Peckishness" is simply a way of life and a way of survival. Survival of the fittest....every man woman and child for themselves.
I think this is also a really good illustration to anyone dealing with someone with ADHD....to show why "nagging" or as said "hen pecking" will not work in fact....it's the worst thing you could possibly do to a person with ADHD..,.who came from a "peckish" environment like that? Simply said, where scapegoat and putting people down....was used to bring everyone else up....for their own ulterior and selfish motivation. Taking on this kind of role ( and that parent child dynamic ) will conjur up only "grief" for a person who came from this kind of environment...and is the worst or the most abusive thing you could do to them in their eyes and from what they now from their own experience.
And I did come from that kind of environment growing up, so I know this all first hand....but I also found my way out of it and around it for the most part, but I didn't come out of that completely unscathed? I just found it in myself somehow, to say "I am worth more than that"....and I beleived it and did not allow that to affect me in the same way as I see my wife and her family which were probably the worst example of this? And my wife, did end of up just as I said? A "chip" off the old block.....and she succumbed to this same kind of thing....but never found her way out of it? And in turn, she did and has done the same thing with me....until I finally had to put my foot down, and put a stop to it and say something. The problem however...is exactly what I just said. When confronted with that, and having to face that full on.....she has to come to terms with the fact that there was a reason why she was picked on , scapegoat, and single out.....but it's not what she thinks....since what she was told to beleive and what she was told about herself....was a lie....and the lie was told by someone who was doing the same thing. To make themselves feel better by picking out someone weaker...and bringing them down. And the worse their own behavior became....the more they picked and pecked at the lowest man or woman ( girl or boy ) and the most vulnerable of the bunch. Vulnerability then becomes...an impossible thing. To become vulnerable, and to show weakness....simply means one thing. You are now a target for anyone to abuse and they will abuse you....you can count on it, you know that like the back of your own hand. You expect that since that's what you know...and the vicious cycle and circle continues....until something forces you to have to confront it and deal with it.....or else you just leave.,..and run away? Those are you only two options in that case? Run away......or deal with it? When push comes to shove however......you are always better off making a stand...and at leat forcing them to make a decision .....it will only be a choice of these two options and they are both possibilities ......but how you approach them, will make all the difference in the world. The last and worst method of course as I just described....is to "nag" or "peck" become that same parent who did the the same thing to them as a child.
I'd go so far as saying...that would be "your first and last mistake" right there. Simply put. That is how not to do it I guess. How to do it, it to confront them head on and do it all at once. As I found, this is not any easy matter with someone like my wife. I did that repeatedly and it still didn't work. If someone is going to be and remian that stubborn in resistance...then all you can do is force the issue and make them make a decision...if their behavior in your end. looks like the definition of abuse to you on the receiving end...then you have to do something, and you have to confront them with no guarentees it will work? They may leave and run away, that is always a possibility...when they come face to face with this issue and have to really look at it and themselves for the first time?
I just wanted to expand on what you said aout someone who might become "phobic" or have a "phobia" about this, and just give my onw experience with it both from being inside of it, and now on the receiving end of it with someone else and me being in that place, of having tell someone who simply doesn't want to hear it. It does explain why.....but I think you still have to do it, no matter what? If a person is really that resistant, then there is nothing else you can do and you just have to accept that they can't or won't do anything about it.....but that is still their choice and they are still free to choose either way? As long as you or anyone isn't doing it the "wrong way"...then almost any way other than "that one"...and making sure you stay clean and your not doing it for your own selfish reasons and considering what is good for both people at the same time...is the key here I think?
J
Thank you!
Submitted by Laurad on
I am so grateful for your comments. I finally did it and broached the subject of ADHD with my husband. I couldn't have asked for a more poitive reaction. Instead of flying off the handle he reacted just as you said- it finally explained so much for him. I have left the conversation for a few days but feel we now need to move forward and talk about possible treatment options. I feel like this is the start of something really positive.
That is Good News ...... Laurad
Submitted by kellyj on
Like I was and how Janenne both described, I can only say, I was relieved and wanted to know what was wrong so I could finally do something about it. It's not the best thing you could ever hear, but knowing was only a positive thing, and from the sound of it, that is exactly what you experienced too. My wife's reaction was just the opposite, and she reacting quite badly in fact, she has threatened to leave so many times, I told her she should leave and this is a good thing for both of us? Having given her some time to think about his, and I am still not putting in real expectations on her either way, I still left the door open for her to stay, and told her the positives compared to the negatives of her leaving. I have told her this before, but she really wasn't hearing me, but I retold her again....all the things I will miss, and how I do Love her and all those good qualities she has? Now that's she decided to leave, she has to confront all that goes with leaving as well as I do and quite Frankly...her life with be completely disrupted and have to start all over again, which in her mind she wants to live alone by herself. I can see a problem in her thinking in that she does not do well being "alone'. As she is....she wants two things at the same time that are completely incompatible with each other? She can't stand to be alone ...yet she wants to live alone? The reality is...she wants to live...."without the conflicts and problems" she encounters when she is with others, but her own behavior is what drives others away..and she cannot allow herself to think of herself as that, since she would have to face exactly what I said? I on the other hand, tend not to give up at the first sign or second sign of trouble. I can live alone just fine....but I will still miss all the things that being with my wife or anyone else has to offer which is just that inherent need to be with people and be a social creature and not be all by myself. The fact that I can be all by myself.....makes this so I can do either....but I still have my own needs to follow. I think having a good give and take attitude...and knowing you can take either and still be Okay....takes the pressure off which is why I am not feeling pressured by this. I'm actually proposing her just life with me as a room mate, as friends which still qualifies as a relationship and approaching it that way. It would be in her best interest as I brought this to her attention, as well as my in a mutually beneficial way? As I said to her "you know, the devil you know sometimes? right?". I am a known quantity and she is for me? I told her she'd by the best roommate I could ever find since I trust her in that way completely. I offered to arrange a living space for her exclusively and told her to consider this, and said I would respect her privacy and all her needs as long as I know exactly what they are? I said that it would require her, to make a list of "room mate demands" and as long as I give her, her own quarters and I have mine and we mutually respect those boundaries....then as long as I have a set list to go off of ( that she creates ) as long as I have that set list of things, and I make those arrangements for her, then I can't see why I can't follow them and make that happen? What I see this doing, is literally forcing her to come up with a set of rules to live by that is "her list, and her needs" and then all I have to do is follow them? As I said to her....our problems, only have to do with "sharing space" together. If we don't have to "share space".....then we have no problems which is absolutely true. When we leave the house, and do anything ( outside of the lving space) we get along fine, no problem no conflicts. The second ( almost within the first week she moved in with me ) there were problems and conflicts immediately. No sharing "space".....no "sharing anything related to spaces and enviroment" and she has he own quarters....then there's no problems which is very very true. In fact, my wife went on a business trip with a co-worker and I was alone for a few days. I imediately went back to my more positive frame of mind, plus I continued to take care of the duties and my new habits and keeping the place up while she was gone. When she walked in the door, she was pleasantly surprised as she said. She even admitted, that she expected the worst....and yet, it didn't happen? What she expected to come home to...was not what she expected, but as I told her, that I'm not going to change now, from taking care of things whether she is here or not? I'm not changing at all, and I'm not doing these things necessarily just for her. I'm doing them for myself now, with her or without her? And when she came home, that is exactly what she found after 3 days gone ( with her leaving and all ) she thought I would just go back and everything would be a mess. As she found, the dogs were taken care of, the house was in order and nothing that she wouldn't want....was waiting on her return.Plus.....as she admitted to me, when she came home....that her and her co-worker friend had gotten into their first "fight' or "argument"....and it had to do with sharing the same motel room together? Which in the heat of the moment....her friend told her she was being "mean".
And I told my wife right then, that "well, you do get that way at times when it comes to sharing space, but as you can see...I know all those things about you and I also know all your pet peeves and irritation points. You are hyper sensitive about these things, which is why I suggested you stay and I arrange for you to have your own quarters so you won't have to share that with anyone, but still be here at the same time?"
As I am looking at this situation, I am seeing beyond "staying room mates". I think, once my wife gets there, and when she experiences these things again from a "starting over place"....and separating for a while, the separation is what my wife can;'t do in her head, so doing it physically will show her everything I've been saying....and she will see it for herself. I see the separation and this room mate thing, completely differently than she does...she sees it as the end, amd I see it as an opportunity. As I see it, I just offered her the solution to her dilemma as I said....she wants to live by her self, but she can't live alone? And if she can't live alone then the "devil you know, is better than the one you don't" sometimes? I am not going to hurt her, or do anything to hurt her and she can trust me on that much. I've proven I am that to her, and proven that she can trust me logistically speaking. I am not a dishonest person and neither is she....I don't trust her judgments to the point, but that's the only thing I don';t trust. Including her judgement of me simply put. On her end, she has lots of things she doesn't trust and she doesn't even really know exactly what those are yet? Maybe she will, and maybe she won't, at least I know what I can and can't trust..and I trust myself more than anything, so I'm not too worried about making predictions but I know it will be positive if I just continue to listen to her and take her at face value ( aside for her judgment ). When I hear her say, I want to live alone....I know what she means. I offered her a solution....so we shall see where that goes? I'm very good at coming up with solutions, and she is very bad at doing so. She tends to come to the first conclusion or solution in a very simplistic way, and make that the only one...as if.....it's the only one? That is her judgment problem....not mine? Problem solving, is not my wife's forte....simply put. LOL