Hello!
I need some direction on how to bring this up. A little background; We've been together for 13 1/2 years. But only married for 9 months. Up until we got married and living together, I contributed his symptoms to self-centeredness and fear of commitment. This was our only focus during couples therapy. I realize now (even our therapist missed it) it's ADHD. Now that we live together, I see and live it daily! It's tearing me apart inside and I don't know how to confront him with it. He's very sensitive and will take immediate defense. That I'm sure of.
A little background of me; I'm in my mid 50's, both on second marriage with adult children. I have a full time job (career) and own my own business. Because I'm so spread thin, I have a tendency to sweep things under the rug until I'm physically & emotionally exhausted. I like to call it, choose my battles. I'm now at the brink of blowing up. Any suggestions and ideas on how to address this in a loving way is greatly appreciated.
It won't end well
Submitted by adhd32 on
If you would like to bring this up, I suggest you do it in a therapy session with someone to mediate. Just know that spouse will not welcome this revelation and will twist and turn your words around. A professional who knows about ADHD marriage problems might help. You are opening pandora`s box, your spouse might react badly so be prepared for stonewalling, gaslighting, and blame.
You’re probably right…
Submitted by faynesh on
We have a couples therapist we've worth with in the past. Although I'm really disappointed she never picked up on this. I'll reach out to her for some direction. I think he'll be more willing to meet with her then someone new.
I appreciate your feedback. It's very helpful!
Try to find a therapist with extensive ADHD experience
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
Without the therapist having deep understanding of ADHD and its impact on relationships couples therapy will run both of you through a continuous doom-loop of 'Try This... [fail]... Try this other thing... [fail]... Try this third thing.... [fail]... etc.
If you are interested...ADHD consultants
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Hi, you may wish to consider one of the members of my consulting team - all ADHD experts - as you move forward, as well. You can find info here.
What I did
Submitted by Honeybee13 on
Last year I started to think my husband might have ADHD and tried to talk to him about it but he took it badly, as though I was trying to find a problem with him.
This year in January, I brought it up again but in the way of wanting to show him an interesting video I'd come across - it was a video of an interview with an ADHD expert (who had ADHD herself). As we were watching, he realised that she was describing him, his life, his past problems and actually listened. I think part of the reason why it worked better the second time was because it wasn't coming directly from me.
It's now May and nothing much has progressed apart from him reading a book about ADHD and pretty much accepting he has it but not doing anything about it and I really need him to get diagnosed in order to access the help that is needed but in true ADHD fashion, everything is 'tomorrow' or he gets overwhelmed about having yet another thing on his to-do list. I've made appointments for him with someone I thought would be able to help - he went to two appointments but NEVER even asked about ADHD or how to get diagnosed/help. I was soooo frustrated and continue to feel helpless as nothing has advanced since Jan, and we're expecting our first baby next month and I'm so anxious/starting to feel burnt out at even the idea of how things might be once the baby comes if we don't get help and ultimately save our marriage. (I'm imagining having to do everything for baby, like I have had to do everything alone in this pregnancy, whilst he'll continue to complain about and criticise everything and blame everything on work and being tired and start fights for no reason.)
Well, we're only at the beginning of our journey ourselves so I can't help anymore than that, but I understand how you feel, and hoping you get your husband to come round to the idea of exploring the possibility of ADHD. Good luck!
Congratulations on the baby!
Submitted by faynesh on
I'm sorry you're having to go through this while pregnant. I had similar experience with my first husband when I was pregnant with our two girls. He didn't have ADHD...he felt his role was only to be a provider. 25 years later, he wishes he could take that all back.
Praying for you and the baby!
Denial is a river in Egypt!
Submitted by swampyankee on
I'll second other commenters' experiences; most likely however you bring it up, it will not be taken well. At least not the first time.
I really thought I'd finally gotten through to my husband last fall. It was after he'd managed to lose his passport the night before we were scheduled to leave for a trip (I ended up going on the trip with my kids and without him). I'd brought it up before about ten years prior, which only resulted in him getting upset with me for telling him he "had dementia" (not what I said at all, of course). So this time, I printed out some high level, generic articles entitled "Six Signs you have ADHD" and "Adult ADHD in Relationships" and such like. I warned him I wanted to talk to him, and then I sat him down with the papers in my hand and told him I thought he had ADHD. At the time, he was resistant, but he actually listened. He took the papers and said he'd look at them "later" but he had to focus on two other things first. So I thought we were getting somewhere.
But then, when he finally did look at the papers, he came back and said he was so relieved, because it turns out he didn't have it. None of the things in the articles described him at all, he said. Even his chronic inability to be anywhere on time wasn't a symptom because he was "consistently late." The final nail in the coffin? I was the only one who ever told him that he might have ADHD.
After that, he would frequently bring it up in arguments. I was "doing all this research" on this condition but not focusing on the eye stroke he had two years ago (I wasn't focusing on that because it happened two years ago...) I was making him out to be a "broken man" to make myself feel better. I went for months without mentioning it but he kept bringing it up as some kind of character flaw on my part.
I found a therapist for us who listed ADHD as one of her specialties and whom I thought would be good based on our initial conversation (she said her husband denied having ADHD as well but finally got diagnosed). But even she told me I had to "drop it" when I brought it up as an issue in our marriage at a couple's session.
Sometimes I feel like I'm gas lighting myself. But then I re-read the "signs you have ADHD" articles, and the peer-reviewed studies and he's their poster child. I've mentioned it to some friends and those that have experience with ADHD nod enthusiastically when I describe behaviors. One even admitted to being diagnosed herself recently. So I know I'm right and that also I'm not the only one whose partner is in deep denial.
To make a long story short (too late...!) good luck. Your journey has only just begun.
"Drop it"
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
Elephant in the room can not be mentioned because it 'complicates' therapy for the therapist.
I know, right?
Submitted by swampyankee on
But staying with this therapist because she's trained in Imago and that technique is supposedly helpful in this situation. Also, we don't live in an area that is full of ADHD-aware therapists.
I logged in for the first
Submitted by nonadhdhub on
I logged in for the first time in a long time to let you know that Imago/EFT will not work (from personal experience). This is emotional work. Except, ADHDers are people who have emotional dysregulation and who quite often have alexithymia. You will talk and talk and talk and talk... you'll then go home and there won't be any changes.
Orlov uses Gottman-style therapy (seems better as it uses more of a formula and guides on modifying behaviors consistently, however, like anything, they will forget to do the homework).
Ideally, along with the Couple's Gottman therapy, he's also in his own therapy. Being he was Dx as an adult, he should probably be in individual DBT therapy to help him work on how he processes thoughts/emotions, and have an ADHD/executive dysfunction coach who is willing to help him on his Gottman homework.
I don't use Gottman, actually
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Hi - want to clear something up here. While I use a lot of Gottman's research in my courses, I don't actually use Gottman's therapy. In fact, my experience is that for many couples impacted by ADHD Gottman's approach tends to not get them far enough. EFT may not have worked for the two of you, but I have seen many other couples for whom it has been quite helpful when ADHD is a factor. In addition, Internal Family Systems for couples (called CIFS) is also quite useful.
The most important factor is that a therapist be knowledgable about ADHD and how it impacts couples' dynamics and that they work in an 'activist' way to help couples start to create new patterns of behavior together. Steps are generally:
That is sort of opposite of the order that Gottman therapists use, which is why I don't use their methodology.
Hope this helps a bit.
So helpful!
Submitted by faynesh on
I'm clueless to what any of these acronyms mean. As for Gottman method. Our couples Therapist used the Four Horsemen as a guide/method. Can't say I remember it stuck. Likely because we missed the underlining issue of ADHD.
Thank for the detailed response. SO HELPFUL!
My apologies. In your
Submitted by nonadhdhub on
My apologies. In your coursework, webinars, blog, etc. you seem to site Gottman much more than any other relational modality, so is why I assumed you "used" it. In this case, it may be more accurate for me to have said that you reference Gottman more frequently rather than you "use" Gottman.
2 different therapists in,
Submitted by nonadhdhub on
2 different therapists in, and you are 100% correct. They do NOT want to talk about it, because... they KNOW what they are already up against with ADHD in the mix. It's like the 3rd-rail of couple's therapy.
4 therapists in...
Submitted by richad on
Could not agree more! Orlov's seminar and books are the only space where I feel validated for my experience as the non-ADHD partner. Our couple's therapist have been minimizing the issue and not addressing it. It is so alienating for me in these sessions as I feel as though my experience of my partner's ADHD is ignored. Orlov's way of integrating Gottman stuff is good, but Gottman therapy itself has not worked for us. It is entirely too focused on validating the partner's experience and not addressing ADHD. From my experience Gottman seems good for neurotypicals... I have often wondered how the Gottman therapist would engage with us if my partner was a substance user and untreated. Would I still be compelled to validate their thoughts and feelings without addressing the actual issue? The substance use or ADHD in our case. It's so frustrating. My partner's ADHD denial is strong and the couple's therapists only reinforce it.
There's more validation out there...
Submitted by nonadhdhub on
There's more validation for the non-ADHD partners out there if you look. Gina Pera, Facebook support groups, Reddit groups, and Add.org's "non-ADHD partner group" to name a few others. Do a little searching on those and you can find more.
Yep. Therapist minimizes the issue. NONE of it is delivered through a lens of ADHD. It's so frustrating and invalidating. But you're 4 therapists in??? FFS how many do we have to go through?! It's ridiculous. I'm tired of talking about my feelings over and over and over again... then we go home and nothing changes. Not even the homework is done. What's the point?! What I have done though, is every chance I get in session, I share the SYMPTOMS of ADHD (without calling it ADHD) to get my point across. I keep waiting for the therapist to catch on that yes, indeed, these behaviors are affecting me... I'm very close to setting a boundary with the therapist though: either treat us with an "ADHD lens" approach or I'm out. Orlov made a list in one of the comments above. I may print that out and bring it and be like "here's your roadmap. can you do this or not?"
Totally agree on the analogy with substance/addiction issue. This all still doesn't make sense to me. I feel like I'm living in a twilight zone episode.
100%
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I could not agree more with this conversation. It feels like there is great acknowledgment in substance abuse situations or when a partner has something like narcissistic personality disorder that there are severe detrimental effects on the partner and the advice for negatively-affected partners is much different. There are often massive similarities in the effects with an ADHD partner, yet the advice for us is much different: work even harder, lower your expectations, stop being so angry, let the housework go, understand their neurodiversity more, praise intentions vs. actions, etc., -- despite no improvement on their side of things. And the ADHD elephant in the room that no one may speak of is ludicrous and utterly dismissive of the non-partner's experience. I believe problems are best addressed at the source. If the ADHD is causing a great deal of the marital problems, it must be addressed and managed as well as it can be. I find a lot of the traditional advice makes the non partner even more responsible for the dynamic and more bogged down - and that partner is often at the point of collapse as it is.
I am more than 2 years out of my 20 year marriage and my only wish is that I went in harder as soon as I knew it was ADHD (about 10 years in) rather than believed the rhetoric about speaking softly, erecting boundaries, lowering my bar (which was already underground), etc. I wish I'd demanded treatment and action towards improvement and put my own mental health first. Following conventional advice just prolonged a terrible marriage and terrible example for our daughter.
Bit of a rant - sorry! The common therapeutic approach that largely dismisses the ADHD partner's legitimately traumatizing experience hits a sore spot with me. In agreement with all you've discussed here as someone from the other side.
Twilight zone
Submitted by richad on
nonadhdhub: Thanks for those suggestions. The twilight zone metaphor is something I've used so many times!! It's so appropriate to our lives... it's like having to relearn all the hidden meaning behind communication and actions (Being ignored? It's not because they don't care!).
Like you, I am also fed up with our current couple's therapist. Finding a good one is so challenging. I've interviewed them and explicitly stated the need for them to understanding us as a neuro-divergent couple re: ADHD. They provide assurances and say this is within their expertise, but they don't understand the complex dynamics that exist in this type of relationship. Finding a good ADHD couples therapist feels like finding a unicorn... and what a time/money investment before realizing it's the wrong fit. I should also mention that this has left my ADHD partner with the attitude that the problem is us and not the therapist fit. I mean he's right... the problem is us, but maybe we could make some improvements with someone who understood our situation?
ADHD has become such a sensitive talking point that I've also tried discussing only the symptoms and not saying ADHD out loud during the sessions. It hasn't made a difference... I get a lot of, "all couples experience these things" (which is true, but also invalidating because it's not with the same intensity/frequency as with an ADHD partner and then it makes me feel as though what I'm bringing up is trivial).
1Melody1: What's it like on the other side? Do you have more peace and consistency in your life? I'm pretty much at the point of collapse as you describe...
Other side (@richad)
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I am so happy I finally pulled the trigger and ended the marriage. It took me a really long time. It was incredibly painful to "give up," and also to make it through an ADHD-impacted divorce in terms of the work needed all falling to me (house selling, asset splitting, childcare, paperwork, etc.).
However, I now have peace, predictability and stability in my life. The house isn't a mess. Our child (a teenager) is much happier and has said on several occasions how much less chaotic things are for her not living with her dad. Though was a so afraid to break up the family, she has said multiple times that she is grateful we divorced. I can predict my finances. We didn't argue in front of her, rather, she felt the impact of his ADHD symptoms as she grew older as well and my best attempts couldn't shield her from that, unfortunately. I'm not walking on eggshells, constantly cleaning up his messes or begging him just to get the smallest things done. It's a huge relief. He comes to visit our daughter once a week and we are very friendly and cordial. He misses the perks of married life in terms of income, house and security, but also seems very relieved that he can live his life the way he wants to as well. He may be as relieved as I am honestly.
I knew my life was chaotic with him, but now that we're not together the difference is even more drastic than I imagined it would be. I thought I would never sleep again, but I'm sleeping well, feeling healthy and much more optimistic about my future, despite the challenges that come with single parenting and ending a marriage in your 40s.
I wish you all the best as I know exactly what it's like to be stuck in what I called "the in-between." Should I stay or should I go? It's really gut-wrenching and I'm sorry for what you're going through.
Thanks so much for sharing. I
Submitted by richad on
Thanks so much for sharing. I relate to a lot of what you write and it's helpful reading about your experience.
Our lives seem so similar
Submitted by nefun76 on
Our lives seem so similar except I am still hurting that I didn't know he had ADHD until after the divorce especially since he filed. He called me toxic because I "overwhelmed" him with responsibilities whereas he did the barest minimum. I had sacrificed so much to keep the family together I regret I had not left earlier . Asides cheating and planning to marry a mutual friend, he is also relieved to have his own space and not having to look after a family.
Horrible experience
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I'm so sorry you had to go through all of this...
"lowering my bar (which was
Submitted by nonadhdhub on
"lowering my bar (which was already underground)" - ain't that the truth! i just need to shift my expectations... ok, so, where my bar is buried below ground? so not only am I giving up on things I want (my therapist will call it "letting go" or "acceptance") now i have to sacrifice my values for the sake of someone else who can't/won't reciprocate. ugh!
and no need to apologize! your posts have been a great source of reference and inspiration for me over the past couple years. thanks you for all that you have shared!
The bar in the ground lol
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
It's funny - that word "acceptance." During my marriage I read the same advice about acceptance from therapists RE: ADHD spouse issues and took it to heart. When I landed in my family doctor's office with situational depression (I didn't know that's what it was - no family or personal history - I was just in so much physical pain I thought I was dying), rather than just ordering a bunch of tests, she asked me what was going on in my life. I described my marriage and she asked me why I was staying. I said, "Acceptance has helped a lot." And she said, "Why? Why would you accept that?" It was a huge wakeup call. Why WAS I accepting the unacceptable?
Thanks for the kind words! I remember you first post here too. So similar to my situation. I am really sorry. I know how much kids complicate this situation.
Just a caveat to everything I ever say of course - I totally understand that not all ADHD spouses are like mine. He was unwilling to do anything about the ADHD and could not see or didn't care how hard he was making life for me and our daughter. I think there is a huge difference between that total apathy/blindness/denial and an ADHD partner who is actively doing the best they can through meds and ADHD coaching to improve things.
“Physical pain”
Submitted by nonadhdhub on
My therapist said maybe I would expect and accept for someone I don't know, a stranger, to treat me like this. But your own wife?! And then I began a journey around how to access my anger (instead of my pain) to fight for what I need/want. And it worked! We are in therapy. But, yeah, the therapists suck and my partner still can't do any of the work. Sigh.
Oh gosh. The physical pain. I'm a dude. I haven't cried since I was a kid... until the past 5 years where I have cried so much lol. It's cathartic when I can access what I need to for that release, but gosh, it really, physically hurts sometimes.
and to your last point: IF they are willing/able to get the treatment, then I'd wager most of those people wouldn't be on here venting. It's when they Don't do the work, for whatever reason, that people like us struggle and need the most support.
Wow… we have so many similarities!
Submitted by faynesh on
I often felt our therapist was missing something. She mainly focused on his commitment issues and co-dependency he and his ex-wife had on each other. As a couple she would use Gottman. When he met with her along, I'm not sure what method she used. I know her focus was his childhood (divorced parents, abandonment, past drug addiction and lies) the so called guilt he felt for leaving his ex-wife. Ugh, the lies...
Co-dependency is still there! Although he denies that. Says, she has some so-called disability, he feels he can't ever abandon her. It took him 10 years to finalize the divorce. Of which, 2 of those years he was dating someone else prior and remaining with me.
I've always known he had ADHD. I just didn't understand the extent or enough about ADHD. I also believe there's more. I honestly don't think I want to fight for this relationship anymore. I've enabled and forgave for 13+ years. I just feel so ashamed, embarrassed and stuck. I don't have the energy to fight anymore. I've lost hope:(
Yes, there's so much more I haven't shared. I apologize for being all over the place.
Therapy and ADHD
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Hi - not ALL therapy minimizes the impact of ADHD...I will be introducing a consulting group in June of '23 that will consist of experts who a.) know ADHD and b.) work as a team with others who know ADHD, including me. I acknowledge that not enough professionals are ADHD-savvy, but I hope to be able to help address that issue in the next chapter of my career.
Melissa
Thank you for this. We all
Submitted by nonadhdhub on
Thank you for this. We all appreciate so much everything that you do to educate on the issues surrounding this, but you can only do so much as one person. This definitely needs to be expanded and scaled and this sounds like a great way to do that.
Thanks!
Submitted by richad on
Melissa, thanks for all that you do! This is such an underserved area of research and practice. One big issue I've faced with therapists is interviewing them early on and explaining the presence of ADHD in our relationship. 3 of our couple's therapists assured me ADHD was an area of their expertise. It was not and it would be several sessions later before figuring that out (and then having to decide whether or not to carry on or go thru the whole process again finding someone new). Do you have suggestions as to specific questions to ask a new therapist to weed out the ones who actually do not understand the ADHD lens and how it affects relationship dynamics?
Finding a Therapist
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Some questions: What percentage of your practice is with adults with ADHD? How long have you been working with couples impacted by ADHD?
Or...I am setting up a consulting team with whom I will work directly. We will meet weekly as a team to discuss specific cases and for additional in-depth professional training around ADHD and couples. You could look into whether one of those consultants would be a good fit. I will be posting the information on this new group by June of '23.