My spouse acknowledges his ADHD (just diagnosed in May). He has tremendous insight into his problem with anger management. He absolutely gets the impact of that on me and the kids. But, it happens so fast. That hair trigger temper. It's SO fast, I can't see it coming. Then his words are out. They are loud and sometimes mean. They are VERY sarcastic. And then, for him, it's over. He feels bad. And I just fester like a pot of boiling water. This pattern has gone on for years and I feel broken. What if he can't fix this? He wants to. But it keeps happening. The Vyvanse he's been taking does NOTHING for this inability to catch himself before he blows. I want so badly to work on myself. To let go of all the anger that's built up from this behavior. But, if he can't change, is it realistic to think I can let it all go??? How does one shift their thinking after being yelled at so many times during a marriage? How does one break down that HUGE WALL?
How do I change if he doesn't?
Submitted by Goldilox73 on 08/16/2017.
Radical Change....
Submitted by c ur self on
Some times we continue to do the same things wishing for different results....(I have and I still do at times)...it's easy to feel like you can have normal communication about most any subject, because it's your (our) reality!.....You, I, others here; we get comfortable when things seem peaceful....Not so wise; when we live w/ a human time bomb.....
You and I (two responsible adults who can manage their own emotions for the most part) could probably set down and discuss about anything whether we agreed or not, without explosive anger surfacing.....We could also be in a stressful environmental (loud children, cold, Hot, uncomfortable, tired, overworked, sexually deprived, feeling disrespect or many many other things, this is why you document it...) situations w/o explosive anger...But he is loosing it in some of these situations....Be wise, and make an effort to learn what they are....Get your focus on the way, (the triggers) vs the crap being puked up in the moment....
But to answer your question about avoiding his anger, I suggest you view him differently...I suggest you lose any comfort or trust that you can speak to him about anything that could be a trigger.....Only you know what those may be....You must do some radical changing to avoid it....And some radical changing when it happens.....
My suggestion is to write down the subject matter, and what was said or done that set him off and do it immediately (doing it immediately will help you avoid taking his crap personally, your busyness in the moment will take you out of his presents, and make things all about his anger, HIs His His...got it? It will become a project about helping him w/ HIS ANGER, and you will be able to limit identifing with it, or worse responding to it.... I suggest you do this for 6 months or more, and look for patterns in your notes....This will do two things....One is; you will become aware of his triggers before you ever speak or do one....Or if the trigger patterns show to be environmental things, you will learn to recognize that also, and more importantly he also can learn what he needs to avoid...Secondly, once you have this information you can make him a copy (don't give up your originals to him, just my suggestion) and if he is aware and truly wanting to move past (find healing) this tendency as you suggest....This will help him to own it, and work on it with the good and accurate information you are suppling to him...Once you have good information, you and him can start intentionally having dialog around his triggers...In order to give him therapy in those areas...If he truly wants to stop these outbursts, he will accept this and work with you....
Blessings
C
Doing Positive Things........Flow
Submitted by kellyj on
Goldilox73,
I'll second what C suggested ( FIRST )...before you try anything "with him" and that's to find out if "he wants to".....because if he says the words, "I don't want to"......and he keeps interspersing that into his language, I'd listen to that and pay heed to it. If he doesn't want to, then he probably won't care or doesn't care.......the same as it is with you? As you stated this clearly " I want so badly to work on myself...to let go of all the anger that's built up from his behavior." I just spent a great deal of time attempting to do ( anything period ) with a person who said "I don't want to....I don't care".......and by golly, she wasn't kidding. She meant that down to the core of her being and nothing between Heaven and Hell was going to make her budge from that position. I'd find that out first.....before you waste you time with someone who's made their mind up that this is what they want. If they have no desire to work on their anger in fact, if the anger itself "serves a purpose" for them in a postive way, then they are not likely to give it up, since it does serve a purpose that they do not want to give up or do without. As hard as that is to imagine, it is true none the less. Misery Loves company as they say? You can;t "fix" that for another person so C suggestions are good ones to consider.
For me, I can tell you how I let go and find ways out of being or staying angry and the first and most effective tool I have in my arsenal is "Flow". For me, "flow" is the difference between life and death. The difference between "Positive" and "Negative" and makes all the difference in the world. You might even say I'm and expert in this subject and after looking this up again......it had some really good suggestions and the qualities needed to get there? There is a dwon side to "Flow" as well for me having ADHD....and that comes from "liking it or staying in it" too long or too immersed in it all the time to the point of becoming dependent on it as the only means to counteract feeling depressed or to avoid anger or any other negative emotion as an escape. That I learned to control a long time ago since I had to stop and start all the time and go in and out of it to function and perform in a group or team setting. I found, it can be used "in that setting" too...as well as "with other" like minded people, but it takes the other people to be with you and joining you and engaging it it too.....for it to work as a group or even in a social setting of just two people.
The bottom line is for me......"Flow = Happiness" and I feel "Happy" when I'm in flow. No "Flow"........"no happiness".....and "no flow" means or can allow anger to seep in anger and fester? Best advise.......find your "Flow". Take it from an expert.....I know what I'm talking about. :)
Not to be confused with Hyper-focus which is somewhat different and more "unconscious" and is more to "escape" something which is seen as a negative quality......but "flow" is with conscious awareness" and a "positive creative state of mind" you that are somewhat and do have " control of ". What I cannot control or have any say in is the loss of time or the loss of perceptual time which means...."time stands still"..and the clock stops. I've got to have timers and things to remind me or something to make me stop and check time or it can easily get away from me but also adding in her.......this is not "an escape" or tying to "escape " something.
On the contrary, If anything, it is going towards a goal or some purpose with a positive results. Using something productive and meaningful and is not necessary done alone except....to be in flow with another person.....they have to be in flow with me and us together or it won't work. Someone who is not in "Flow" will be totally out of synch with me if I am...and they're not....which is a problem to recognize as just being that and not as a means to blame the other person? If they refuse....or say "I don't want to....." there is nothing I can do about that? And neihter can you simply put.
( wikipedia )
In positive psychology, flow, also known as the zone, is the mental state of operation in which a person performing an activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity. In essence, flow is characterized by complete absorption in what one does and loses sense of space and time.
Intense and focused concentration on the present moment
Merging of action and awareness
A loss of reflective self-consciousness
A sense of personal control or agency over the situation or activity
A distortion of temporal experience, one's subjective experience of time is altered
Experience of the activity as intrinsically rewarding, also referred to as autotelic experience
Those aspects can appear independently of each other, but only in combination do they constitute a so-called flow experience. Additionally, psychology writer Kendra Cherry has mentioned three other components that Csíkszentmihályi lists as being a part of the flow experience:[3]
"Immediate feedback"[3]
Feeling that you have the potential to succeed
Feeling so engrossed in the experience, that other needs become negligible.
Etymology
Flow is so named because during Csíkszentmihályi's 1975 interviews several people described their "flow" experiences using the metaphor of a water current carrying them along.[4]
History
Mihaly Csikszentmihályi and his fellow researchers began researching flow after Csikszentmihályi became fascinated by artists who would essentially get lost in their work. Artists, especially painters, got so immersed in their work that they would disregard their need for food, water and even sleep. Thus, the origin of research on the theory of flow came about when Csikszentmihályi tried to understand this phenomenon experienced by these artists. Flow research became prevalent in the 1980s and 1990s, with Csikszentmihályi and his colleagues in Italy still at the forefront. Researchers interested in optimal experiences and emphasizing positive experiences, especially in places such as schools and the business world, also began studying the theory of flow at this time. The theory of flow was greatly used in the theories of Abraham Maslow and Carl Rogers in their development of the humanistic tradition of psychology.[2]
Flow has been recognized throughout history and across cultures. The teachings of Buddhism and of Taoism speak of a state of mind known as the "action of inaction" or "doing without doing" (wu wei in Taoism) that greatly resembles the idea of flow. Also, Hindu texts on Advaita philosophy such as Ashtavakra Gita and the Yoga of Knowledge such as Bhagavad-Gita refer to a similar state.
Mechanism
In every given moment, there is a great deal of information made available to each individual. Psychologists have found that one's mind can attend to only a certain amount of information at a time. According to Csikszentmihályi's 2004 TED talk, that number is about "110 bits of information per second".[5] That may seem like a lot of information, but simple daily tasks take quite a lot of information. Just decoding speech takes about 60 bits of information per second.[5] That is why when having a conversation one cannot focus as much attention on other things.
For the most part (except for basic bodily feelings like hunger and pain, which are innate), people are able to decide what they want to focus their attention on. However, when one is in the flow state, they are completely engrossed with the one task at hand and, without making the conscious decision to do so, lose awareness of all other things: time, people, distractions, and even basic bodily needs. This occurs because all of the attention of the person in the flow state is on the task at hand; there is no more attention to be allocated.[6]
The flow state has been described by Csikszentmihályi as the "optimal experience" in that one gets to a level of high gratification from the experience.[7] Achieving this experience is considered to be personal and "depends on the ability" of the individual.[7] One's capacity and desire to overcome challenges in order to achieve their ultimate goals not only leads to the optimal experience, but also to a sense of life satisfaction overall.
This is a new term for me, but without a doubt what so ever, I'm a Autotelic Personality or person as this description is suggesting. I was just born that way, but you can learn how to do it as well? I didn't have to learn it or have anyone teach me, I just did it, and it works...and that much I'm sure of? In fact, I've been doing this all my life which is why I can say I'm somewhat of an expert on this topic or at least in the experience and how I get there , I've just never known what to call it before? I can do it in my sleep.....almost.( it even happens in my dreams sometimes. No really, sometimes the best ideas or creative thoughts have come when I was asleep inside my "unconsious sleepng dreams" Go figure? lol
J
Autotelic Personality..........Find Your Flow!
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted to include this as part of the description of what this entire "Autotelic Personality" is since I'm still determining just how far up the scale I am, but I'm definitely "on the scale"....I'm thinking towards the upper end but it can come and go depending on? Depending on who I am with, does have an influence on it, but not much outside of it can really influence it. It's pretty impervious for the most part except for deception. I can get decieved easily by someone pretending for their own selfish goals which is when I really go ballistic and get angry. People who deceive for their own selfish gains and external rewards, and do this with intention....piss me off beyond description. They are "Fow Killers"....which I have found is what my intuition has been telling me. "Fow Killers" are not Happy people...and they tend to be angry all the time. A constant "Flow" or current of anger runs in them and I can feel it and tell by that feeling. "Flow Killers" is my new pet name for them. It really is difficult to have any sympathy or respect for someone like this which is why I have so much trouble trying to integrate with them. Not a good fit for me, all's said and done which is the main reason on my end, that I'm ending my marriage right to the point. That is the deal breaker for me, since this was not in the "deal" that I made with her at the outset of "our deal" together. Refusing and saying "I don't want to...."....pretty much sealed out fate together. Time toi move away from the negative and back to the "life force of life". All she did was "drain" that from me which I found most distasteful, to say the least. Highly unsavory, without a lot of redeeming qualities and a constant negative energy drain. I've found after 1 week and 1/2....I'm almost back in flow again. It might take a little more time but I have solved the problem, and cut the negative energy drain "off" completely. That pretty much "fixed it" right there. The Flow is returning and almost at full charge once again. Cutting off that negative drain 100% with no contact is the best choice based on the results. I feel like I'm almost back to normal....in just that short period of time. The dogs are much happier too so that's simply a no brainer......given the choice.
The interesting side note here has to do with my dogs? My dogs seem to be able to sense the same thing too. The second my ( soon to be offical ex ) would walk in the room...and the dogs would growl and snarl at her. Expecially the one. He got very protective of me and use to stand in between me and my ( soon to be ex ) and would growl and snarl and bristle. He never does that with anyone else....but he did it every time my ( soon to be ex ) would walk into the room? Apparently, he knew were his bread was buttered and the other one would get very unpset and the two of them got really irriated and hostile in their posture. I've noticed after just one 1 and 1/2 weeks gone (soon to be ex ).......the dogs are calm, happy and no more growling or snarling? The've never done that with me either? You can fool people......but you can't fool dogs!! LOL I get that.....for what its worth.
“This is the real secret of life– to be completely engaged with what you are doing in the here and now. And instead of calling it work, realize it is play.” — Alan Wilson Watts
The autotelic personality is an individual who generally does things for their own sake,in the “here and now”,rather than for some later goal.
No one is fully autotelic, since we all have to do things even if we don’t enjoy them, either out of a sense of duty or necessity. But there is a gradation, ranging from individuals who almost never feel that what they do is worth doing for its own sake, to others who feel that most anything they do is fun and valuable in its own right. It is to these latter individuals the term autotelic personality applies.
The autotelic personality are people with several very specific personality traits which are better able to achieve the “flow experience” than the average person. These personality traits include curiosity, persistence, low self-centeredness, and a desire of performing activities for intrinsic reasons only.
People with an autotelic personality tend to have a greater preference for challenging-opportunities and learning skills that stimulate them and encourage growth. It is in such high-challenge and through creative learning skills that people are most likely to enter the “flow state”.
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi describes people who are “autotelic as those who need few material possessions and little entertainment, comfort, power, or fame because so much of what he or she does is already rewarding. Because such persons experience flow in work, in family life, when interacting with people, when eating, even when alone with nothing to do, they are less dependent on the external rewards that keep others motivated to go on with a life composed of routines. They are more autonomous and independent because they cannot be as easily manipulated with threats or rewards from the outside. At the same time, they are more involved with everything around them because they are fully immersed in the current of life.”
“Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.” ~ Confucius
Why did the man climb the mountain? Because, it's there. Work, will set you free ;)
J