So, we are at the point where I’ve literally done all the research, said everything 500 times, and made my feelings very clear. My husband’s anger is, at times, explosive and that’s just not ok. Even if it’s infrequent. I’ve used “I” statements, soft starts (per Melissa), and tiptoed carefully around him with my words, which often get twisted and misinterpreted anyway. I’ve made suggestions about meeting with his doctor, changing meds, and trying alternative therapies, like coaching. I’ve recommended getting his sleep and diet back on track, exercising, etc.
But, at some point, after you’ve done all that REPEATEDLY and he hasn’t shown any action on his part, don’t you just have to say “I can’t fix things alone, so if you’re not going to participate, I’m leaving you” ??? I don’t believe in ultimatums generally, but how else can one put this after spinning your wheels for so long? And is it OK to say this? I said it this weekend. And the answer I got was “but if I do x,y, and z and I still screw up, then what?”
I can’t fix his cyclical thinking of failure. Nor do I want him to seek help just because I “nagged” him (which is SO far from true because this has been an issue for 15 yrs!). I’m just so tired. Physically and emotionally. Did I do the right thing? What do I tell him when he says part of his failure to act is based on his fear that nothing will work??
important changes in your thinking
Submitted by overwhelmed wif... on
Congratulations. You're making important changes in your thinking--changes I wish I had made much earlier. To answer some of your questions (I think you already know the answers): First of all, there is no need to make an ultimatum not sound like an ultimatum. Second of all, it is okay to say that if your husband won't help save your marriage, you will leave. Third, his answer about doing x, y, and z and still screwing up shows you that he is not planning to solve the problem. He might be willing to take a few swipes at it, but he knows he will continue to act as he always had. As for his question, "then what?" The answer is, "then, I leave." One of the best suggestions I've read here is that, if you set a deadline for behavior change, you can communicate it to your husband, but your really have to communicate it to yourself. The deadline is your deadline for action, not his deadline for change. Otherwise, you will end up staying in this codependent relationship for another 15 years and it will do neither of you any good.
Sorry if I sound a little over-enthusiastic or even angry. I am angry with myself for waiting so long to confront the truth of my marriage. I am bitter at the lies I told myself for so many years.
I'm pretty much at the point
Submitted by Heart's Desire on
I'm pretty much at the point you are with my marriage, Goldilox, and I think it IS time for an ultimatum, in the sense that you are at the end of the energy and emotional investments you're willing to make in the marriage. And it's time to communicate that to him (and, yourself, like overwhelmed wife commented). I have recently given my husband my ultimatum: "I would like to begin separating and I'm moving out by X date as this marriage isn't a healthy one for either of us. I need to stop enabling you. I've attributed the cycle of dysfunction to adhd for the past 6 years and have been doing all that I can to understand it and fix it, but what if I just look at this relationship without the guise of adhd, is it a healthy one that I want to be in? And that answer would be no. It is affecting my health and my sanity, our children and my life. So I am done with that. I will not live in a marriage where one of the priorities isn't respect, from both parties."
Basically if I acted like my husband and ignored adhd and it's symptoms, I see a dysfunctional marriage and two people that shouldn't be together.
His response has been to ask for 6 - 12 months to put in place mechanisms that will help, and to work with his therapist again, and try and find meds that he'll take regularly. I also counter offered with us moving into a bigger house in our family that has recently become available and that is in a neighbourhood that will make our lives way easier from a commute standpoint to lessen stress.
I've left before, and came back quickly (in a matter of weeks). That time I was sad, and in mourning for the marriage and life I thought I'd have, so I wanted it to work out. This time, I feel strong, confident and like it may change. And if it doesn't, that's ok and we will begin going our separate ways. But, it has taken me years to get to that place. And it's taken a lot of personal work. This could be one of many times you'll try to leave, and that's ok. It's a step along the journey. Please stay true to yourself and really look hard at what you want, and how you can live your best life in this relationship and out of it.
"Then what" is this: If he
Submitted by vabeachgal on
"Then what" is this: If he doesn't make the changes, you want to end the relationship. If he does, there is no guarantee, but there is some hope. One choice gives him an option. The other choice, the option is already stated.
If he doesn't take it seriously, he won't make the changes voluntarily. If you go ahead and begin making the changes, maybe he will see that you are serious about it and not just "saying words."
This is what I had to do...
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
...with my ex. I did not see it as an ultimatum. Rather, as a boundary and an act of self-care. This is an important distinction, to me.
ADD was not an official diagnosis in our case but I strongly suspect it was the problem given the level of impairment in his life. All the symptoms (and the devastating results) are there. Either way I was no longer able or willing to be in a relationship where I was not getting my needs met (and being emotionally put through the ringer).
I had tried everything. I talked until I was blue in the face. I stopped going over to his house because of the condition it was in (no heat, broken appliances, no smoke alarms, clutter everywhere) and explained why it was detrimental to my (and his) health and well being. I offered to help him in completing the tasks that he expressed needing to complete but he refused my assistance. I continually accepted his justifications for why he needed more and more time to do anything, thinking that I was being supportive, while he went to long lunches with coworkers or to the bar after work every night instead of using the time to deal with the tasks he agreed to work on. I took us to couples therapy, but he stood up and stormed out. Etc, etc, and on and on...
I also battled that assumption of failure you describe, as well as a lot of arguing, resisting and deflecting. Life with him was full of "No, that won't work.", "No I'm not going to do that.", "I shouldn't have to be the one to do that", "THEY should do XYZ", "Well YOU...did/didn't do XYZ", "Well SHE... did/didn't do XYZ", "Why is it on me?"... etc etc. He wouldn't listen to friends who tried to talk to him about anything, either. It was exhausting and impossible to get anywhere.
So after 5 years, I finally I accepted the fact that I just could not work with someone who will not take any responsibility for his role in the problems that were facing him/us or make any steps toward a solution.
I finally told him that if he was not able to tell me what he was going to do in order to help improve the situation then I was no longer going to be able to stay in the relationship. He got extremely angry and accused me of telling him how to live his life... among other terrible, hurtful things. I stood firm and said no.. I am not telling you how to live your life. I am telling you what I need in order to be in a relationship with you. You can live your life however you choose... but depending on what you choose I may not be able to be a part of it.
He ended our relationship instead. Which he had done before in a fit of rage and I had talked him into coming back. The second time I didn't. It broke my heart, but I was prepared to walk away and so... that was that.
It's been over a year, and even though I am moving on...part of me still worries for him. I keep in touch with his adult children and nothing has improved in his life. In fact, it's only gotten worse. I often wonder what is it going to take for him to deal with his issues? But.. I guess he has to go find out on his own. At some point I had to decide to take care of myself.
It's difficult. I feel for you and I wish you strength in whatever you decide to do. (hug)
Hi CaliforniaGirl....
Submitted by c ur self on
(I finally told him that if he was not able to tell me what he was going to do in order to help improve the situation then I was no longer going to be able to stay in the relationship. He got extremely angry and accused me of telling him how to live his life... among other terrible, hurtful things. I stood firm and said no.. I am not telling you how to live your life. I am telling you what I need in order to be in a relationship with you. You can live your life however you choose... but depending on what you choose I may not be able to be a part of it.
He ended our relationship instead.)
A few things jump out at me reading you post CG, and this statement especially...One, your statement is a wise one...Secondly, it can be very difficult to say it (and mean it) to the person we love....
But in reality, when we find ourselves having to make this statement...We really never had any kind of healthy relationship to begin with, (thus the statement)....So his walking away wasn't from a relationship....He left because he couldn't get away from accountability....It would be the same for many of us....
C
Thank you..
Submitted by Goldilox73 on
....everyone for hearing me and “getting it.” Sigh. I think I understand now when people say you will just know when you are DONE. When you have said all the words that can be said, tried all the approaches, risked difficult conversations, and come to the conclusion that unless he OWNS IT, you cannot effect change by yourself. This has been my hardest lesson. I can’t believe as I sit here that my marriage may very well be over. But I know in my heart I have tried everything. Unless he starts owning it, I will not be able to stay. I read an old post from Melissa in 2009 speaking specifically to husbands with ADHD. It was brilliant. Said everything I’ve said and thought, only better. I sent it to my husband and I hope he reads it. Because I just have nothing left. :(. Thank you all for your support. It means so much.
Strip out all the noise
Submitted by Heart's Desire on
Melissa had a useful and helpful comment on a recent thread about options when dealing with untreated adhd. It really stuck with me. (Paraphrased, because I can't find the exact thread): 1) stay and live with the status quo (which may make/is making you miserable) 2) Fight back (which you'll quickly realise doesn't work and makes for a miserable living situation as well) 3) Leave.
Some may point out this is a simplified way of looking at a nuanced situation. However, I'd counter that it strips out all the 'noise' and brings it back to basics. How do you want to live your life? Perhaps by leaving, it will force both of you to reflect, and begin to piece yourselves back together, and possibly come back together more whole and better for it. Or, at the very least, you will be able to begin living a life that doesn't exhaust and drain you mentally and physically. And that's something to strive for. I wish you much strength.
Left with 3 bad choices
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Heart's Desire:
I remember the thread you are referring to. The point I remember is that untreated ADHD leaves you with three bad choices as you have described. I agree that if the offending behavior is left unremedied, you need to push through all the noise and what if's and I wish's and get to the basics. If the behavior is something that you can't live with and is counter to your internal values and self-worth, you have to look at the situation for what it is. It's difficult. I've had to put my ego and desire for a real marriage aside and take a long, hard look at what I really have and whether or not I can live with it in the long run. Details aren't important here, but I decided that I can live with some of the ADHD behaviors but I CANNOT live with the betrayals and irresponsibility that may or may not be entirely ADHD related. I, unfortunately, came to the conclusion that I can't continue to take all of those "hits" and be okay. Pay attention to actions,not words. My watershed moment was when I went on vacation for two weeks and felt like a brand new person because all of this "stuff" that consumed my mind had vanished. I had time and space for my own thoughts. Actions. I tried virtually everything. At the end of the day, if the other person doesn't want to do anything about it, what are you left with? My H also deserves living life the way he wants to, but that life is not good for me. I'd rather have a life that gives me the opportunity to choose from more than 3 bad choices, predicated on someone else's behavior.
At the end of the day......VBG
Submitted by c ur self on
( At the end of the day, if the other person doesn't want to do anything about it, what are you left with? )
You know VBG, there was/is (haven't heard from her in a while, I hope she is well) a wise person posting her for quiet some time...Who made this simple statement that goes along w/ yours above....**A relationship isn't something we have, it's something we do....
That statement stung me for a moment...But after a couple of months are more of considering it...It's so true....It takes effort and energy when it comes to Love...be it physical, emotional or spiritual....When there is little to no concern for the day to day work that happens in healthy relationships....We really don't have one....We can have something dysfunctional, but just because two people dwell together, doesn't mean there is a healthy relationship....
Yes friend, I sure agree w/ your statement......At the end of the day, if one or both parties aren't doing the work, we don't have any thing resembling the relationship our Heavenly Father intended....
Blessings
C
Caution
Submitted by vabeachgal on
C:
Here is the cautionary tale. At the end of the day, not only can you end up with a relationship that doesn't function in its intended way, but possible worse outcomes.
Finally, (my fault I know) I got a full physical. I was a walking zombie, I just didn't know it. Years of stress and anxiety were manifested. High blood pressure where none had previously existed. The stress had caused my body to be depleted of several key vitamins and minerals. It's a viscious cycle. Your body takes a hit, then your body can't rebound properly to help you deal with the stress. Tons of vitamins for me now, oral and injectable. I'm looking forward to feeling better soon. However, living in constant stress is no small matter, even if you think you're a professional at "handling things", as I did.
Your relationship shouldn't kill you or shorten your life.
VBG, im So Sorry, but so Thankful....
Submitted by c ur self on
I hate you are dealing w/ this, but, so thankful you caught it, and hope you improve quickly....You know, as I lay in bed this morning praying and thinking....I realized it is so much about attitude!...When I am THANKFUL, my attitude is right....ANYTHING ELSE, my attitude suffers....
In watching my wife live life...(partly an add thing i guess, her make up and mind type anyway) she can go from top to bottom in attitude very quickly....When a person isn't thankful for their blessings, they are just difficult to be around, and almost impossible to communicate with....
I catch her judging every situation, telling me what others or even thinking, etc....Not healthy..LOL....
When I never forget to be thankful, for forgiveness, for her, for a warm bed, a roof over my head....For a healthy and loving family....And on and on....I just want to live a life of thanksgiving....When I do that, my attitude is a peaceful one....
Any time you see someone who's attitude is suffering (victim, depressed or miserable)....Check to see if they are being Thankful....I've found in my life...They go hand in hand....
VBG, I truly hope you can turn your thoughts on yourself, that you will find a way to exercise, eat right, and get your rest...(forgive me if you are already doing these things) No one will do this for us....When I retired back in 2013, I started riding a bike in warm weather, and going to plant fitness ($10.00 a month very cheap) and working out about 3 days a week...Now after a few years of that, I've avoided perscription drugs...I'm stronger, and it's very very good for me emotionally and psychologically also...Just a suggestion:)....
Blessings Friend...
C
VBG, I completely understand.
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
VBG, I completely understand. I was recently diagnosed with copper toxicity which was caused by years of chronic stress. I’m on a detox protocol which requires me to take a handful of vitamins and minerals every morning and a different handful every evening. Unfortunately, detoxing makes the symptoms worse before they get better. I started on Dec. 28 and I’m hoping for some relief soon.
I sincerely hope that you’re able to regain your health!
My version is the following:
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
My version is the following: 1) Do you want to continue living in a situation in which there are negative circumstances? 2) If the answer to question 1 is "no," are there any things WITHIN YOUR CONTROL that you can do to change the negative circumstances? 3) If the answer to question 2 is "yes," work on those things and then reevaluate. 4) If the answer to question 2 is "no," strongly consider leaving the situation.
This sounds exactly like mine
Submitted by melissat on
This sounds exactly like mine and my husbands situation. Id love to here other opinions because I feel the same way. Just tired in every way