Hi again, I've been posting a lot because I'm entirely alone (not one single family member or friend) and one of my major issues is deciding where my boundaries should be as a wife of a severe ADHD-er, how much I'm supposed to endure, and if I should keep trying or truly get away. Having outside perspective helps very much so thanks in advance one again for reading/helping.
So please tell me what you would do:
My husband is a compulsive liar. I did not discover he was until 10 years into our relationship, he's just that good. Then a few years back he came out that lying was his way or survival as a child, and it was almost always a positive outcome for him. He readily admits he has an issue with it, and wants to fix it. He swears he will stop. But the issue continues. His lies primarily surround work.
About 3 times a year or more, I notice paychecks have stopped coming and are very late. By this point I recognize the subtle diversions and excuses he'd been giving for those delays for weeks to months. During this time he swears up and down his work is complete, and it's whatever client being away on vacation, or accounting error, or other seemingly understandable issue keeping the money from coming in. Eventually I am able to se e through it and I discover the reason is actually him not delivering finished work on time. The deficit in work by this point is so large, it takes a month or two of hell (me doing everything els so he only works...slowly) to rectify the situation. Then eventually the cycle begins anew.
Aside from the issues of trust in our marriage (which I'll get to), it prevents me from having the facts of where we are financially. Which prevents me from keeping to budgets and planning to where we are realistically and accommodating for our family of 6 (we have 4 children to care for) effectively. His lies essentially keep me from reality and the right to choose what's right for my family and my own life.
The reason I keep giving him more chances are his awareness and ownership of the problem, and his genuine intent to stop. And for awhile things are as they should be. But slowly and unnoticeable the lying worms its way back in, snowballing back into a financial/career catastrophe I have to get us out of somehow. And so it begins again.
I just found out Tuesday he'd done it again. Aside from the financial and career issues, I feel so betrayed and disrespected. I check in with him every week, and ask him to please be honest if theres an issue with work. I tell him how the lying is what hurts more than anything, and how much our marriage needs trust built now more than ever. He then looked me in the eyes every time and said " I understand why you don't trust me, honey. But I promise that's not happening anymore. I wouldn't do that to you again". And to my horror, I believed him every time.
I feel like such a chump for trusting the word of someone who has lied our entire marriage. I feel like an idiot for believing my well-being meant more to him than his own ego or fears. I feel like I don't know who I'm married to.
Anyway...would you continue trying with someone like this who keeps breaking trust with lies but who is genuinely owning the problem and wants it fixed? I've dealt with it so long...this along with all the other ADHD issues. I feel unloved and like there's no hope for my future.
How much lying are we supposed to endure?
Submitted by Lost Wife on 09/01/2018.
4 children
Submitted by jennalemone on
I can understand where your willingness to believe this compulsive liar is coming from.....4 children. Unless you have your own inheritance money, you may not believe you can afford the time, effort and money to part ways with the man who betrays and disrespects you. I understand because I was in your shoes with 2 children in the day when women would have been called names for taking ANY kind of assistance from the government or even for getting divorced. The stigma of "divorced mom" is completely gone. But the economics are still tough for those of us who do not have wealthy families. I am sorry you are in this situation. You know you need to leave this man for your children's sakes. They should not have a disrespectful liar as a father. You are not an idiot for trying to believe in your husband. You must remove your heart out of this relationship. He is choosing lying over the financial well-being of his family. There is no BEST answer. I am just trying to give you a crystal ball to the view at the end if you stay....like I did. Looking back, I should have endured the words and the work and the difficulties of divorce when I was still young enough to work and have options. I kept wanting to believe in and support my husband and to "keep the family together"...that was the phrase we always used to hear. Well, our family included one disrespectful, oppositional teenager who kept breaking the rules and making me feel ashamed to be married to him. Women today make it work. There are lots of examples of how women are making single parenting work. I hope you can find support...both monetary and emotional. Marriage to a compulsive liar will make you not only crazy but also compulsively angry.
Thank you, Jenna. That helps
Submitted by Lost Wife on
Thank you, Jenna. That helps to hear. I absolutely have no money... he's seen to that. Despite great paying jobs and opportunities coming our way in the past, his non-delivery and lateness means we are always paycheck to paycheck. I have often wondered if he's doing it purposefully subconsiously (his family growing up was one of constant poverty in a hoarder house, where his parents lied their way out of problems...).
It truly is the money keeping me in this position where I feel like my only option is to try to work with this man who lies. If I had and money to survive a few months in my own place with my kids, I might be able to establish my career by myself to work at home (as I do now, to be there for my kids all day) for decent pay, and not be dependent on him for our projects anymore. But that takes time I currently do not have, as my day-to-day is spent supporting his time to catch up on work so we can get paid to just survive and keep the lights on and a roof over our heads.
But I hear you, I definitely don't want to be in this position in 10 years and wish i could have left now. So thank you very much for your thoughts and advice. It helps so much
EDIT: Any advice how to remove my heart from this? Sometimes I grow numb from all the hurt, but I noticed it also numbed feelings like joy, excitement, or hope where I might usually feel them. I'm afraid of closing off my heart to all the good things in life to shield out all the bad, and unsure how to do this.
Social Security
Submitted by jennalemone on
Know this: At retirement, a wife gets 50% of the Social Security that the husband makes. That, or 100% that she has paid in in her name. If she chooses 100% of her own benefits, the HALF that would have been given to you from you lifetime marriage is just poof....the government gets to save that money. Your choice....but you have to decide on the day that you sign up and the SSA is understaffed and not very helpful to counsel you. As a lawyer explained to me, social security is an insurance, not an asset to be split in half in divorce. If his name is on the Social Security "pay ins", he will get all that Social Security paid in his name. The spouse will get only the amount that she has paid in in her name. So, (and this makes my stomach turn and I fume at the MEN who wrote and keep the rules) the money you have made in your lifetime, if it be part time and not more than HALF your husband's full time work, is wiped out as a benefit to you. You only get half of his or all of your own part-time payments. during a 25-year duration. THIS is why I am staying in my marriage. I paid my H a salary from my sole propritorship business to him so that we could have health insurance and be a "group" which my accountant said was wise so our health insurance dividend would not skyrocket every year as was the case in those years. The insurance, all our combined deductions, the maximum IRA deductions in my name and in his name, and the salary I paid to him on paper made my own earnings quite small. H did not really do work for my business except on paper but I paid in Social Security in HIS name. Now he will get the benefit of his Social Security for full time work and the money I paid to him on paper (when he worked full time which was not ALL the time) He gets his Social Security from the money I paid in for him, not me. I cannot afford to divorce and get only HALF of his Social Security. He would also get half of MY IRA from when I worked full time for 10- years...which is about 4 times what he has invested all together. WOMEN, CHECK OUT SOCIAL SECURITY LAWS early! I did not realize that Social Security would not be divided evenly between husband and wife married for 40 years.
What sort of person is he?
Submitted by smd1409 on
At the end of the day, I don’t know your husband but from what you’ve said he does genuinely mean everything he says and so the issue you are after is not technically a financial one if you choose to continue your marriage.
I believe a tendency to lie is a symptom, like symptoms of depression, so is a characteristic that is part of a wider mindset. When it’s done for selfish reasons, other obvious characteristics that accompany this are that those type of people do not like to admit they are wrong, they will constantly play victim or they are always angry over the smallest of things that don’t go their way. Not every one of these would show up, but some of them should and similar, and it appears on a regular basis.
There is another type of liar that appears in a different set of mindset though and that would be the one who wants to improve, aim for an ideal him and yet cannot reach it. To him it’s not an option to fail, even if he fails time and time again, so what is a lie to you was actually a hope for him. This sort of person, he admits his fault but he’s also an optimist and so believes that next time will be the one where he gets it right. The main difference between the first and second type of liar is that the first actually believes he is perfect, while the second knows that he is imperfect, but wants to be. From your description your husband REALLY sounds like he’s the second type. It might be that he lies about his finances not because he has a large ego or his fears are more important than your wellbeing, it might be that he cares so much for your wellbeing that his greatest fear is that he cannot take care of you or himself and so doesn’t want it to look that way for you. His ego might not be an ego but an ideal that he doesn’t want to give up on.
Would I continue a marriage like that? Don’t know.
What would I have done in this situation? Well, asking the partner to be open about their problems didn’t work, so I would find another solution. Given how the problem is procrastination or inability to finish deadlines, looking up ADD methods that would grant control over work habits would be a good start. After that’s done and dusted, resolve his insecurity issues if that’s what they are.
How much lying?
Submitted by Angie_H on
Hi, Lost Wife,
I also was a lost wife, married to a compulsive liar. Like your husband, mine learned at a young age that lying was a successful way to get out of trouble, to avoid consequences.
There is the crux - consequences. What can you do to create logical consequences for your husband? If he wants to stop lying, it is something he can work on, but it will take time and significant effort. He may or may not succeed.
What I did was work hard to stay in reality, to stop believing and hoping. I separated, then got together with my husband again when he got effective counseling and worked hard to change. Think about what you can do to protect yourself financially and emotionally. It's hard to make good decisions when you are confused and upset. If there is no need for an immediate decision, then work on staying in reality and having boundaries, and consider taking your time to make any final decisions about your marriage.
All the best,
Angie
Thank you for your post. I'm
Submitted by Lost Wife on
Thank you for your post. I'm happy things improved for you eventually. I agree very much on the "consequences". There really are none that make him uncomfortable enough to put in that hard work to change. My pain isn't enough. Our being in poverty isn't enough (he grew up in it, so its a comfortable familiarity I'm sure), our fights aren't enough (his parents were highly combative, so once again that comfort in familiarity), and I can't separate because we are constantly just trying to survive. There is nowhere for me or him to go. I feel trapped in a situation and forced to work with someone who is putting his fears/feelings/comforts over the well-being of his own children, and wife. If there are ideas on consequences to try please let me know, because I'm all out of ideas :(
More on how much lying
Submitted by Angie_H on
Hi, Lost Wife,
Here are some statements from your original post and from your reply to me, and how I think the new me would do things:
"He readily admits he has an issue with it (lying), amd wants to fix it." My husband was the master at saying what people want to hear. I stopped believing anything he said and believed only his actions. We had many arguments when I pressed him about his words not being enough, that I needed to see the actions. Eventually he started 'doing' more than 'saying'. This came when his counselor convinced him that his first priority was doing whatever it took to stay in the marriage. His counselor knew I was serious about ending it; there were no more chances. BTW, he lied to his counselor a lot. I occasionally joined a session to give my viewpoint on the state of our relationship.
"notice paychecks have stopped coming...recognize the subtle diversions and excuses" I woke up. It was work, and at times I resented it, but I tracked commitments on my calendar. I didn't let my husband keep stringing me along with promises, while I waited for things that were never going to happen. When you let your husband fall behind, then "go through a month or two of hell...doing everything else..." you are enabling him. It is my husband's pattern to let things slide, then work like mad in crisis mode. At those times I handled everything else. If I didn't, he raged and 'guilted' me. I had no one backstopping me. I learned to express sympathy for his distress, and I did not pick up his responsibilities on top of my own. We started having regular meetings where we discussed plans and commitments, and I stopped accepting, "I'm tired now, I'll do that tomorrow...next week..." I insisted on 'now'. When you "check in every week", why take his word? Why not look at his records with him?
The more you "keep giving him more chances" the longer things will stay the same. You said you can't separate and you feel trapped. "There is nowhere for him or me to go." I worried about money. I worried about where my husband would live if I made him move out. I stopped caring. He ended up an hour from work. Yes, that was unpleasant for him and it increased expenses somewhat, but he had to figure it out. He cut back on some of the ways he had been wasting money. He had less time for fun.Those unpleasant times were his consequence. Your husband would find a way, even if it is couch surfing or sleeping in his car. He would figure it out. Don't underestimate him.
You have to do what is right for you. When I 'woke up', I did not expect my marriage to last. For whatever reason, my husband decided to change. It has been hard work for both of us, and it has taken years. It has been worth it.
All the best,
Angie
Lying and my boyfriend.
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
During the first year or so of our relationship, my boyfriend lied to me about one thing, consistently. He lied because he was afraid of my reaction. It was important for me to know why he felt the compulsion to lie to me. He grew up in an abusive household, beaten by his stepfather regularly. He lied so that he could avoid beatings. Later on, he was married to a physically abusive woman who had untreated mental health issues. He lied to her to avoid confrontation.
It took a while for him to understand how much the lying hurt me, and our relationship. It took time for him to trust me, to trust that I would not judge him, or react negatively if he told me something.
Three years later and our communication has improved greatly.
Hi, thank you for your
Submitted by Lost Wife on
Hi, thank you for your response. I do believe fear of my reactions/view of him are a major driving factor behind the lies surrounding his work. I have read that I should work on my reactions then so he learns its safe for the truth. The issue I come across is that the stuff he is lying about have dire consequence to our family financially..."mistakes" he makes over and over without end or improvement, despite talking the issue through for years to try different solutions. When we're left with no money for food or diapers because of him, I dont know how to just be okay about it. I have learned in the end that it is something in HIM that is preventing him from succeeding, and it will take him choosing differently to change. I feel like just being understanding would make it that much easier for him to continue the original behaviors (no consequence). If he was lying about things hat didn't impact us so badly I could employ that understanding to help him through this, and is great advice. Thanks for your post and very glad to hear of the improvements in your relationship!
I may have spoken too soon.
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
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