I said to my wife (ADD) the other day, after a particularly horrific fight (at least it was horrific from my perspective) - "I just can't take it anymore. We can't keep fighting like this." She replied that all couples fight, that fighting is normal. I said disagreements are certainly normal, and maybe fighting sometimes is normal, but I didn't think that fights like we have been having, where one or both partners are yelling, cursing, slamming doors, etc. was normal. And I also don't think fighting so often is normal. (I consider "often" to be one or more fights in a week.) It seems like we have these fights at least once a week, and lately even two or three times a week. And they are having a real toll on me. I can't stand it when my wife yells and bangs around like that. And when I get so frustrated that I yell and curse and bang things I am feeling REALLY frustrated (which in itself feels terrible), PLUS I feel bad at the time that I am behaving like that - yelling, cursing and banging things.
The fact that we fight so often, and the fact that I become so enraged that I yell and bang things, is starting make me wonder if maybe I made a mistake. That maybe I shouldn't have married my wife. Because I just can NOT go on living like this. It is just way too stressful for me. I am not happy being in a relationship where we fight so often. I definitely understand that disagreements will occur, and perhaps even frequently. But do they have to trun into fights? I do NOT want to be in a marriage where fighting like this is considered "normal." My wife, however, seems to think that my expectations for marriage are "too high." I'm not sure what to think.
I think no those fights are not normal
Submitted by Aspen on
and certainly not at that kind of regularity...and I say this as the one in our family with the tendency to get loud when I am upset. No cursing or banging but the "yelling" (which to me is only a raised tone most of the time) is like nails on a chalkboard to my husband who came from a very quiet *bury all your emotions inside* type of family, while we got it all out in the open immediately. I do think some of it is cultural as far as background, but when we started fighting more often and it was taking a toll on both of us is when my husband took action to find out what was going on.......this is when we discovered ADD.
I do think that ADD and the way having a partner who is so easily distracted can make you feel at times builds up an amount of anger/frustration in the partner which at times (at least in myself) comes out in an argument about something really stupid.....recently a plug. The argument isn't about the plug of course...what set me off is that he said "You shouldnt ask me for a plug during a conversation and then get upset if I get distracted and interrupt you about it." Where I felt like he was saying "I have ADD, so you can't expect basic courtesy from me". Of course that wasn't what he was saying, but it is what I heard because I was overwhelmed by about a million other things.
I think your fights are indicative of something in your relationship or about your interaction that is bothering one or both of you. It may be because learning these new skills is so new to you both that you are having to let go of the negative way you've communicated in the past. I can say honestly that since my husband got diagnosed and on medication, the fights dropped off dramatically only to rise slowly as he wasn't taking action to actually correct the behaviors he had developed as *coping skills* during the 35 years he had no idea what was different about him. It wasn't until he really got educated about ADD (for us it was the ADD conference last year) that he started taking more advantage of the tools he is offered....like his coaching...that seem to have mostly eradicated the fights.
Almost all our arguments now are about someone not feeling heard or feeling minimized or both, so the recent blog post has been good for us, and we use having an argument (or as in our recent case 2) as a gauge that we aren't doing all we should to support eachother. I think that is where you are at right now...you are working to build a better way of communicating and are clearly both open to it, but it's definitely a process.
Yes Definitely, It Is a Process
Submitted by Hoping4More on
It definitely IS a process, and it seems to be a slow one at that. I can definitely say that from MY perspective almost all MY anger and frustration at this point do seem to stem mainly from not being heard or feeling minimized, or both. Or at least the anger and frustration that escalates into fights. I'm not sure if my wife would say the same thing. Perhaps I should ask her. Maybe if that is the case, and we learn to stop and ask each other if they are feeling heard, or what they are feeling, maybe we can head off those arguments before they escalate too badly. Easier said than done, I am sure.
I also find yelling of any kind to be very grating - even if the person is not yelling AT me. My wife has a hard time understanding this. I will say to her "Honey, would you please not yell" when she is saying F***! and G** D**M IT! at the top of her voice because something on the computer isn't working the way it should (she's a techie and often gets frustrated when things don't work and/or take longer than she thinks they should have) and she will respond "I'm not yelling at YOU" as if that makes it all right, to which I will say "It doesn't matter. I find it very unpleasant to be around yelling." She DID grow up in a house where yelling was the norm and so she is not bothered by it. And so she thinks I shouldn't be bothered by it either. I have told her so many times that i t does, but she still hasn't "heard" me. Sigh . . .
It is normal with an ADHD spouse
Submitted by dfw_dude on
I frequenly have long drawn out, emotionally draining, mind numbing heated discussions and arguements with my (ADHD) wife. Most of the times it would be because of lack of communication. My wife has anxiety issues and in conjunction with her communication style makes talking to her a major challenge.
Yes I feel very frustrated. In fact I am considering divorce, but I am continuing the relationship to see how far I can work things out.
Bottom line: while it takes a lot of effort to make a marriage work, it takes double that effort (on both sides) for the marriage to work if one of the partners has ADHD.
fighting frequency, intensity
Submitted by arwen on
I don't know that the frequency of your fights is unusual for your stage of learning to cope with ADD, but the intensity sounds like more than average to me.
In our family, the "yelling" roles are reversed. I was brought up in a family where my parents fought infrequently but pretty vocally when I was young -- my ADD spouse has a mom who gets really upset with conflict, so his parents didn't fight much (it doesn't mean they had a good dynamic -- his mom probably should have stood up more to his ADD dad! but it does mean he wasn't used to fighting or yelling). As a result, my spouse expected me to cave in like his mom had all the time -- and I expected to negotiate, with escalation to yelling and challenges if need be. Recipe for disaster!!!
We both adapted. I can't really tell you how my husband learned to stopped getting quite so upset when we argue -- mostly I guess it was just a question of "practice practice practice". That's certainly what I had to do to curb my yelling. I still yell at times, I'm sorry to say -- mostly when I'm feeling unwell or have had way too little sleep -- but I yell a lot less than I used to. But it took years for both of us to accomplish these changes.
My sense is that you would probably be best served by focusing on efforts to reduce the intensity of your fights, rather than the frequency. (Trying to reduce the frequency of fights can sometimes have the unfortunate effect of "sweeping" problems "under the rug".) When you feel that the argument is escalating out of control, you could try expressing this perception to your wife and suggesting a five minute break for you both to calm down so you can continue the discussion more productively (since high emotions tend to get in the way rather than help resolve conflicts).
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
Set a boundary regarding her rage
Submitted by family on the mend on
A solution can be to refuse to engage. Some people with issues such as ADHD, bipolar, depression, feed a need for stimulation by starting a fight. They seek the adrenalin rush from starting and engaging in a fight. You can simply say, "I don't like where this is going." and leave the room, or, "I will talk to you about this when you calm down." or, "I am leaving until you can discuss this without hostility." It is a boundary issue, you have to set a boundary regarding how loudly or aggressively she is allowed to talk. Most people crave attention and when you stop feeding the attention she gets from starting and maintaining a fight, she will stop the behavior. Aggression is a boundary violation. Set a boundary around her rage and enforce it and I think the behavior will stop. Responding in a calm, non-threatening voice is the best way to state your boundary. Keep the emotion out of it when you tell her that you will no longer tolerate the behavior. Each time she explodes, repeat the statement or like, and leave the room. Boundary violators tend to fight the setting of a boundary, so you may have to do it several times before she gets the message. But it works very very well when enforced.
Absolutely
Submitted by Hoping4More on
In fact, that is exactly what I did when it happened the other night. I did not engage when she was ranting and raving. When she then came and sat right next to me and said something in a hostile voice I said "I will not talk to you when you are so hostile." And I got up and left the room. Actually, I left the HOUSE and sat outside so I didn't have to her her shout and slam things even more. I came back in and went to the couch and she came down and tried to demand that I come to bed. I said "I am not coming to bed with you acting like this." So she left in fruatration and tears and stamped upstairs and slammed the door. And later, she eventually came downstairs and invited me nicely to please come up to bed, which I did. The next morning I thanked her for doing that, telling her if I hadn't come up to bed, we wouldn't have been able to have a calm discussion about what had happened the night before. And it was my comment that I do not want to be engaging in such horrific fights like that so often that prompted her reply of "Every couple fights."
Not to a "Genius"
Submitted by Nettie on
Mention "boundaries" or anything else (I agree with the boundary comment) results in "Logic 101" Hell (intense, unending questioning) I can't follow or endure (or I blank out with the pressure), and then I'm shamed for not being at my spouse's level of intelligence. If I've understood him correctly, to him, things like boundaries are arbitrary, social constructs, etc., etc., etc., to infinity and beyond, and I can't satisfy him with my answers to his questions (if I manage to get them out). Once the on switch is accidentally hit, it's impossible (so far - getting help with it) to stop the onslaught.
Boundaries make life better
Submitted by family on the mend on
My understanding is that boundaries are intended to be a positive influence on both sides of a relationship. Good boundaries make all relationships better, meaning that when each of us knows where the line is drawn, we both get along better with each other. On one side, a person needs to state what they are and are not willing to tolerate in life or in a relationship. On the other side, the other (person) is expected to respect the boundary set----and not cross the line set. For instance, one might set a boundary like this, "I need you to come home from now on for dinner. I get very upset when you walk in 20 minutes after we sit down. Dinner is at 6. Please be home by 545." The other partner, if they are a person interested in a good relationship and cares (or is learning to care better) for their mate, comes home at 5:45 from then onward. Boundary set. Boundary respected. Better peace. Each person is responsible for stating their limits. The other is responsible for respecting the desire of the other.
Update
Submitted by Nettie on
DH remembered yesterday to tell his doctor (not counselor) about this behavior, and she took some blood for tests, saying it may be hormone related. It's nice to hear the GUY might be "hormonal" for a change! Waiting to see :)
Update 2
Submitted by Nettie on
Asperger's
Asperger's?
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Are you saying DH has been diagnosed with Asperger's? My ADD wife was telling me just the other day that she was attending a training on Aspergers (she's a teacher and they have some students in their school with Aspergers) and she was struck by how similar the behaviors were to those of ADD. I am not familiar with treatment of Aspergers but maybe that additional info will open up new treatment options?
Talking when calm vs. live in the present
Submitted by snake_hips on
In my relationship, I've tried the approach of "we need to talk about this when we've both calmed down" only to encounter that he does not want to talk about it later. I read in one of the posts on this site that ADHDers tend to live in the present, and have a hard time understanding how the mistakes of their past or future consequences have anything to do with their *now* existence.
In the case of anger explosions (I'm one who gets very anxious at vocal elevation) I know that once he's calmed down he feels very terrible about the harsh things he's said or the manner in which he's said them. In the lucidity after the fight, he can see how it was not appropriate. His feelings of guilt then overwhelm the conversation and I'm not sure anything gets solved that way either. Just my two cents.
I haven't read all the other
Submitted by ladyflower10 on
I haven't read all the other posts yet, but I just wanted to comment. Before I was diagnosed with ADD my husband and I used to have some doozy fights. Well, mainly it was my husband yelling, cursing, slamming doors, etc. The problem was we didn't about my ADD so all the things he got angry at me for were because he was looking at it from the perspective of how a "normal" person should think or act. He couldn't understand how or why I did the things I did and quite honestly neither could I. It just "was." Once I was diagnosed and he made the effort to understand me our fighting took a huge nosedive. He learned that I wasn't doing things on purpose, to spite him. I wasn't purposely doing things to hurt him. Sure, he would still get upset but he now knew that I wasn't doing these things for the reasons he used to think.
That being said we still have our arguments, just not to the severity or consistency that we used to. My husband told me a few days ago that our arguments are nothing compared to some of his buddies at work. So, I would say that I'm sure these knock down arguments are not quite as rare as you may think. It's probably more a case of people just don't like to admit it!
Oh VERY normal (at least to
Submitted by hope09 on
Oh VERY normal (at least to me) when your spouse has ADHD. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't and fights happen everyday over nothing. It's absolute chaos and insanity.
After 4 years I've asked my spouse to leave. I'm a loving, giving, hardworking person and I can't take the fighting, instability and simple craziness that has stole years away from my life.
Even with the therapy it can't be fixed. It will be what it is and that person will be there even under all the medication it will still come out. You need to decide what you want from your life.
I've come out from one of the worst times in my entire life and what I say is love yourself and be selfish. Take care of you. Fighting the way we did is not normal and I refuse to have it become a normal in my life. It's highly unhealthy and destructive to oneself.
same here
Submitted by Clarity on
Tonight I was just sitting around watching tv when my husband told me that I'm hard to get along with. Then he tried to cuddle up with me... (?) This is a good example of how medication is not enough. Apparently you have to somehow learn that kind of behavior is not conducive to good relations. Okay, maybe I could of just snuggled with him but, I'd still be wondering what did I do that was so difficult? Of course if I point that out, no matter how kindly, jokingly, compassionate or matter of fact I will only prove that I really am a difficult person. I usually do what someone below suggested, set my boundary and walk away which might also reinforce his negative view of me. Like you stated, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. My husband will take medication but he thinks just talking with someone is ridiculous and he won't attend any counsel, coaching, therapy or group. So even though the meds help take the edge off his hyper irritability, he's not learning how to have a simple exchange with me let alone a proper conversation. I'm guessing it takes too much effort and he doesn't think I'm worth it. He probably likes to remain in denial and pretend there is nothing wrong with him. Even if I can avoid an ugly confrontation it can't be good for anyone to live in a void like this.
is it worth fighting for?
Submitted by hope09 on
You know hearing it come from another person really sheds light on the phrase IT's NOT YOU. You know my husband even yesterday (no longer living together for a few days) says I set him off. It's my tone, attitude, emotions that make him angry and its not ADHD. You know he's been gone for a few days and now he's hating being with his parents just like he hated being with me. Whereever he goes his hatred, anger, impulsivity will follow.
I get you a million percent that no matter how compassionate, joking or kind your doesn't matter...you're f'ed! I will go out of my way to be supportive and passionate for him to verbally attack me and shred me to peices. It's soooooo crazy and makes no sense especially when I'm super duper conscience of how I come off to him because of his altered perception of reality & misconstre of emotions.
It really does sadden me to hear it from you and others. It's like you don't want to give up because you got married love him for his faults but where is the line drawn. My husband says he does not care nor wants to put in the effort. He pretty much rather stay messed up and alone. He blames me for his depression but he is exactly the same since I met him.
I lived day by day walking on eggshells and trying to avoid fights that somehow find me when I'm at work trying to focus (he just needed someone to yell at and take his agression out). I mean it has really damaged me because you would think love conquers all...well I really wanted to believe that.
set ups
Submitted by snake_hips on
Clarity said: "Tonight I was just sitting around watching tv when my husband told me that I'm hard to get along with.... Of course if I point that out, no matter how kindly, jokingly, compassionate or matter of fact I will only prove that I really am a difficult person."
This type of "set up" seems to be an ADHD trait, too. I read someone else's post about "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I think sometimes ADHDers find things to create conflict about because they need stimulus. It is upsetting when they ask or say something that is essentially a trap - like the instance Clarity relayed. How are you supposed to answer that? If you defend yourself, well then you're being difficult! If you don't, then you're allowing someone to put a label on you that may not be fitting and is, in fact, damaging.
Sorry if my tone is negative, I found this site because my ADHD partner and I had an incident last night where he got all upset because I'd turned some of his laundry pink. He got all out of kilter, asking/yelling why I would even put that item in with his white clothes and saying I should just not do his laundry anymore, just don't do it. I have not ruined any of his other laundry, at least not for a handful of years.
From my perspective: So pink laundry is something important enough to you that you are willing to make me, a person, who you say you love, feel like an idiot?
From his perspective: I over reacted and I know I did, but you've gotta admit I have a right to be upset. Some of the items are not replaceable.
Me: Sure, you can be upset, but it's not like I did it on purpose. I realize no one can "make" me feel a certain way, but the things you said were condescending and I felt like you were calling me stupid.
it's like a trap
Submitted by Clarity on
and then he can't keep track of what's been said! If I repeated this sentence,
"Tonight I was just sitting around watching tv when my husband told me that I'm hard to get along with.... Of course if I point that out, no matter how kindly, jokingly, compassionate or matter of fact I will only prove that I really am a difficult person."
as an example to my ADD other he would not understand "that" refers to just sitting around. This happens often, he does not catch that I'm referring to the afore mentioned. I can say "the grass is green, isn't it a pretty color?" and he'll ask "what?". This inability to keep track of what's been said mixed in with a whirl of emotions makes for very difficult exchange. If I get frustrated, things escalate and he insists that I've started something.
Just tonight, I tried to indicate that he started yelling at me for no reason and I didn't like it. Then he angrily tells me he's not my dad. Apparently he didn't like my tone or that I was defending myself. So then I reminded him that he is the one who started yelling, my dad is not even here. (I assume that he thought to pass blame on my dad since I was sticking up for myself) Here's the formula: He instigates, I defend myself then he calls me names, digs his heels in and blames me for starting trouble, and I used to believe him! I don't buy into it anymore but, it still hurts that he can't be good to me because he can't seem to keep track of what's going on and is so determined to put me down.
I'm so tired of this and told him this is a very typical interaction using any topic and it's why taking meds alone is not enough, surely he needs good counsel to help him understand what's going on! It's hard to ignore a guy who follows you around talking and getting angry about nothing!