I am a married < 3yrs, 41yo male recently-diagnosed with ADD:Primarily Inattentive. My non-ADHD wife and I are miserable. The dynamic I describe below is now one of our most common causes of conflict and a serious barrier to effective management of ADHD in our relationship. I'm a long-time lurker here, and am looking for any insight the wonderful people of this forum, especially the non-ADHD spouses, may have to offer.
Although related to shame; this issue is more specific to the erosion of trust in my relationship and the struggle to rebuild it. A life of adaptation to ADD and an unforgiving and violent father who wants the right answer yesterday, means that I have developed an insidious habit of impulsive speech including the making of excuses when asked questions where I either:
1. Don't know the answer in 1 second.
2. Know the answer but believe it will get me into trouble or put me under suspicion.
3. Didn't hear the question well enough to answer it correctly.
The problem I'm having is that when I am honest, my wife is so jaded from past experiences that she doesn't trust me. To her, every reason that is inconvenient for her to believe is an excuse. In her mind, I'm always avoiding responsibility. There seems to be no convincing her otherwise. I can't even get her to understand the difference between a reason and an excuse.
Last Friday: The two front tires on her car need to be replaced, one of which was nearly bald. We are at a restaurant, discussing our plans for the coming days. We discussed a few options for getting the tires replaced. We settle on dropping her car off at the dealership before we head to out of town on Saturday and picking it up on our return trip, Sunday evening. During this conversation, I didn't mention that I was off-work Wed and Thu of next week and could, if she liked, take the car in myself to have the tires replaced while she was at work.
My wife is furious that I didn't bring this option up in conversation. She believes it's evidence of my:
1) Not knowing my schedule (irresponsible) and
2) Not stepping up to help her plan our week (uncaring)
What I told her: I wanted to get them replaced sooner rather than later because it had been raining a lot lately and I was concerned about her safety. In fact she complained about hydroplaning while driving last week. That's why I didn't even think to do it next week. I also just wanted to get it done. This is the truth, as and ADDer I don't put anything off I don't have to, ever. I'm terrified of forgetting things and like to get things off my to-do list ASAP.
She is convinced this is an excuse used by me to avoid responsibility for:
1) Not knowing my schedule (poor planning)
2) Not offering to do it next week when I was off work (selfish)
3) Not wanting to do it (laziness)
4) Not "stepping up" to help her plan our week (apathetic, un-manly)
Of course the act of making the excuse itself is my avoiding responsibility for:
5) Not telling the truth (liar)
Yet, my schedule has been in our calendar for two weeks. I do things for my wife daily, all manner of cleaning and chores; I have no issues with doing errands or other tasks to help out. I have to be honest that I certainly don't want to do it...but that's life, you help out and do things you don't want to. Lastly, I did help her plan the week, it's just not the plan she wanted. In a sense she's accusing me after the fact by asking why I didn't I tell her I had those days off and offer to do it because she didn't want to do it this weekend? I'm in trouble for not thinking to offer to do it the next week when she gave me no indication that this weekend wasn't what she wanted. When I ask her how would I know that she didn't want to do it this weekend if she doesn't tell me or look at the schedule, she replies that it's common sens eand I have none.
And when I say I get in-trouble for these situations I mean, she stopped her morning routine to take a strip out of me for it in the house. Later argued again about it at the car, then put her car into reverse when driving away, stopped, got out and came back to call me stupid, an asshole, fuck you, etc. before getting back into her car and driving off.
How could I have done this better? How do I get her to know that I'm being honest with her?
Thanks to you all!
william73
Submitted by sunlight on
Hi, I have a couple of initial comments (more like questions..sorry about that!)
You mentioned the diagnosis is recent - do you think she is she reacting to that? Does she know that ADHD is 'real' and not some made up set of excuses? It seems she may be still coming to terms with it or is attempting to wish it away. Does that seem possible to you? How much does she know about ADHD from books etc? Would it help if your doctor talked with her about how ADHD can affect exactly this type of incident? Somehow she also needs to get to an understanding that her responses are actually making things work by ratcheting up the stress levels for both of you.
"she replies that it's common sense and I have none"
This kind of thing, apart from being unnecessary and insulting, is what is making me believe that she doesn't want to acknowledge the reality of the diagnosis. Does she apologize any time after she has had time to calm down?
Also your explanation of what you believed was happening with the car arrangements is well-written and coherent - would writing to her help? That way she can read it later and think over it.
Hi Sunlight, thank you for
Submitted by william73 on
Hi Sunlight, thank you for your response.
You mentioned the diagnosis is recent - do you think she is she reacting to that? Does she know that ADHD is 'real' and not some made up set of excuses? The diagnosis is several months old but you're very perceptive. She disputed the first doctor who diagnosed me symptomatically. So I found the most accomplished and prestigious clinician I could afford and got a second opinion at my own expense. The second doctor, admittedly brilliant, is a Yale grad and ADHD-specialized post-doc who added a battery of tests among other methods to formally diagnose me. This culminated in an 8-10 page formal write-up. She invited my wife to attend an informal Q&A session either alone or without me. My wife never called her, never went and has no intention of following up.
How much does she know about ADHD from books etc? Would it help if your doctor talked with her about how ADHD can affect exactly this type of incident? She hasn't read any books at all. She is not interested in talking with the doctor.
You're absolutely correct, she has not accepted the reality of ADHD and is not interested in learning about it or being my partner (not mother...partner) in managing it. As far as she's concerned it's my problem and I'm supposed to do what I need to in order to fix it.
Does she apologize any time after she has had time to calm down? She never apologizes unless when confronted by the counselor. The problem is she walked out of our first counselor's office in the middle of a session with her and then after I let her choose the replacement, stopped going to his sessions too. Both times it occurred after she was told she'd have to assume a level of responsibility for the success of the relationship. The first counselor had a son with ADHD and my wife took that as her being biased. As for the second, she hasn't vocalized any problems with him, only that she doesn't have any problems, just me. So why should she go?
She's threatened divorce several unless I "fix" my symptoms. I feel that she doesn't accept me, diagnosis, or any responsibility for her role in the conflict. Luckily, we don't have children. My heart goes out to the couples who do especially those with ADHD struggling to manage their condition. I'm fortunate, I'm well-adapted according to my doctor. Yet still, I find my relationship in the same place as others in this forum. Despite doing the chores well and on-time, keeping appointments, making good money with an advanced degree, being conscientious, etc. I'm in the same place with my partner as others in this forum.
I haven't tried writing explanatory messages. But I did send her this poem for her birthday, it's something I hope every non-ADHD spouse could hear from those of us desperately trying to do better.
I DO
I know how frustrating it is for you, I do.
You're always having to ask me for a translation of what I just told you.
In a brief turn of words our communication goes awry.
As my ever-motoring mind jumps tracks in a flash.
And you're left wondering, what's wrong with this guy?
Reminding me to slow down, to think before I act,
To build routine and habits I need to keep me on track.
Impulsivity shoves me on a path without a plan,
Down the wrong street and back again.
To have to ask me twice for a simple clue to the truth,
Battering through old baggage carried since youth,
You wonder, did I marry a boy or a man?
And your temper is too short to have to deal with this again.
What's wrong with this guy, is nothing he did.
No intention or premeditated act, it just is.
And he's doing everything in his power to reign it in.
That's where the boy stopped and man began.
I know how hard it is for you, I do.
But, I'm not done yet, there's so much more.
Not a cure, or promise of a perfect act,
But more planning and thought with less react.
Less defense and more listening,
Fewer messes, unlocked doors, and stresses,
More plain English with fewer directions,
Less anxiety and more time for connection.
With a bit of patience and progress true,
We can bridge the distance between us,
And get back to the two people who,
Laughed and loved their way through Greece.
I'll focus on speaking your language of love,
Keeping in neat, tidy and clean.
With fewer dinners, favors and chocolate,
So you'll feel just what I mean. -Truly Yours,
Best, W
Denial, non-ADHD edition
Submitted by sunlight on
Hi William73,
Given that you mention that it is some months since diagnosis, I'm wondering what is her typical reaction to life's adversities or to changes of plan? Is this over-reaction 'normal' for her or is this highly out-of-character? Did she have some sort of perfect life mapped out until you threw a spanner in the works? You mention rebuilding trust in your efforts and sincerity but it seems that you need to go a step back first and handle whatever has caused this dramatic denial on her part - does she feel swindled, conned, lied to, betrayed, deceived that you aren't who she thought you were? Or ashamed (can't handle the idea that someone has 'brain issues' and doesn't want anyone to know)? What is the background that is causing this?
Something I nearly wrote about yesterday, in another context, but decided not to post might be relevant here too - and that is that every relationship has an 'end of the honeymoon' phase where the glow fades and the reality of the other person's foibles and annoying quirks become starkly visible. Usually non-ADHD couples work though this, or split, but the impulsivity that often comes with ADHD might causes the non-ADHD person difficulty in 'settling in' and 'accepting' the quirks because the impulsivity rears it's head at apparently random and unpredictable times so it can feel that one never quite knows what's coming next that the non-ADHD person hasn't seen yet. So maybe she is also confused between what is ADHD in your behavior (and is also due to end of hyperfocus) and what is 'normal' moving on from the initial glow. All this then tips her into overload and her behavior becomes unacceptable.
"she .. is not interested in learning about it"
This has to change before any other progress can be possible. Is your diagnosis a secret to others in your family or to trusted friends? Is there anyone else who can talk with her?
"she .. is not interested in .. being my partner (not mother...partner) in managing it."
I do understand this somewhat. She is seeing it as a burden rather than an exploration of how two people with differing communication 'styles' (a better phrase escapes me right now) and differing neurological constructs can effectively learn to engage and accept each other. (Which is how I think of it).
I wouldn't want to pour fuel on the fire here, but it might be worth pointing out to her sometime that she probably unwittingly knows other people with ADHD who function to such a 'normal' extent that she's never guessed. If the prevalence in the population is 2% (say, up for debate) then there are over 6 million people in the US and she's probably known or knows some of them right now.
"...does she feel swindled,
Submitted by william73 on
"...does she feel swindled, conned, lied to, betrayed, deceived that you aren't who she thought you were?
Yes, she told me she felt "duped." She believes she made mistake and is now "stuck" with her less valuable man with "brain problems" as she calls it.
the non-ADHD person difficulty in 'settling in' and 'accepting' the quirks because the impulsivity rears it's head at apparently random and unpredictable times so it can feel that one never quite knows what's coming next that the non-ADHD person hasn't seen yet.
Yes, she feels I am unpredictable and that causes her a significant degree of insecurity. She's very insecure as it is and tries to assert a high level of control over my behavior as a result (e.g. telling me what I need, rules I should set, etc.).
Is your diagnosis a secret to others in your family or to trusted friends? Is there anyone else who can talk with her?
The diagnosis is not a secret. My whole family knows along with two close friends. Her friends are a different story, I have no idea who she's told.
I do understand this somewhat. She is seeing it as a burden rather than an exploration of how two people with differing communication 'styles' (a better phrase escapes me right now) and differing neurological constructs can effectively learn to engage and accept each other. (Which is how I think of it).
Yep. Precisely...it's a burden and I'm viewed as less of a man because of it.
Deal w/yourself...She must do the same....
Submitted by c ur self on
Who works and supports the family?
You say in your post "I don't like to do things, but it's life and I don't mind helping out"....Helping out? Who are you helping? Lets forget about your wife for a minute. The word helping in this context say's I'm a helper vs I'm a man with responsibilities to share in.
I also suggest your wife isn't mad about the tires issue, that's just the cover for her anger...She doesn't like you or respect you for the role reversal you have forced her into, because of your refusal to accept your role as a Leader.
Go get counseling...The statement you make about her jumping out of the car and what she said to you....William73 you're wife is extremely bitter and has lost any respect for you she may have once had....
Hello?
Submitted by sunlight on
"your refusal to accept your role as a Leader"
Good grief. Do you accept that not everyone thinks this way?
I'm afraid that if any male thinks he's pre-ordained to be my "Leader" then he's got another think coming. Leaders are chosen, in any effective organization, they're not appointed. Gender is irrelevant.
Would you be any less offended if I used the term Servant Leader
Submitted by c ur self on
Hi Sunlight Marriages aren't organizations the last time I checked, nor are they ordained by man...but by God...
To answer your questions Yes, I do know many many people think differently...We are demanding our rights as our minds produce what is good to us!...Sadly with no thought of what our creator calls a marriage to be...
One only has to look at all of us bitter and angry people in this land of astronomical divorce rates to see that...
Who works and supports the
Submitted by william73 on
Who works and supports the family?
We both work full-time; I earn a bit more than her.
You say in your post "I don't like to do things, but it's life and I don't mind helping out"....Helping out? Who are you helping? The word helping in this context say's I'm a helper vs I'm a man with responsibilities to share in.
My context could have been clearer. When I say "help out" I mean help out with "our" shared duties and responsibilities. I didn't intend to imply any other dynamic.
I also suggest your wife isn't mad about the tires issue, that's just the cover for her anger...She doesn't like you or respect you for the role reversal you have forced her into, because of your refusal to accept your role as a Leader.
I appreciate your perspective but I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I'm refusing to accept my role as a leader. What leads you to believe that is the case? How did I force her into a role reversal? Could you be more specific please?
Go get counseling...The statement you make about her jumping out of the car and what she said to you....William73 you're wife is extremely bitter and has lost any respect for you she may have once had....
She walked out of counseling and stopped going to the second counselor. I agree the situation is dire although I'm not sure I wholeheartedly agree with your characterization of my not being a leader and forcing some type of child-parent dynamic on her.
william73
Submitted by c ur self on
I jumped to several conclusions with my first response, (judgments based on some things you said, but mostly my own baggage) for that I would like to apologize...
I have lived with a severe add wife for several years, who for much of the time, (years) we have been lost in our efforts to communicate...So in the beginning and several year after the beginning :) I felt cheated in some degree as for as daily being able to communicate clearly with her...It's like watching a television show where the picture is nice and clear, but you get bits and pieces of what is being spoken, because there is bleed over from two or three other channels....So right when a good part is own, it happens, and it's like we look at each other with frustration and say...What did they just say? Sorry this may make no sense to you....
After reading all your responses, I would just like to say you are more self aware than most of us on this forum...Adders and nons....The second thing is based on all of your posts, your openness, and seemingly calm expressions of a genuine desire to be self aware so that y'all relationship can improve...I truly don't see why your wife, (if she truly loves you for you) is having such a hard time. Of course, only you and her and God knows what has transpired between you.
Just remember, just like my wife, things work a little different for you, so hopefully she can turn her expectations into acceptance and find the peace she seems to be so desperately lacking in the relationship....
By the way, the poem is great...Bless you friend.....