Hello all,
I have been a member for 5 months now and this is my first post. I have found invaluable information on here, thank you for your thoughtful posts. I am having trouble finding a post about exactly what's going on in my marriage and looking for a bit of outside perspective here:
My husband and I have been together for 7 years. He was diagnosed with ADD in high school and has taken meds on and off ever since. He has never liked the way they made him feel and almost never takes the full dose for a day (for instance, he'll only take 1 in the morning and not the second pill). He has tried, it seems, all the medications in all the dosage amounts (concerta, ritalin, adderall, vyvanse, straterra, straterra and adderall together....I could go on).
One dilemma for us is that vyvanse worked wonders with no apparent side effects. It is so expensive and our insurance doesn't cover it. To be sure, if we could afford vyvanse, many of our issues would be solved. Looking into making this happen (switching plans/just buying it outright @$400/month) but not sure we'll be able to any time soon.
In the meantime, his main complaint with the other drugs is that he cannot sleep, on top of not feeling like himself. He has had trouble sleeping since he was a little boy and the stimulants just make it so much worse. So in his 20's he began a pattern of taking ADD meds during the day to get him through the work day, then drinking in the evenings to calm himself down and sleep. He has never abused alcohol nor has he ever abused the stimulants.
We have fought fairly explosively on and off throughout our entire relationship. Never anything physical, just very explosive, aggressive words and high voices and slamming doors over things that people should be able to have a rational conversation about. It always feels like we've gone 0-60 and I don't know how we got there. For the first 5 years we worked really hard on this pattern and on our interactions with one another, both agreeing this is not how we should be interacting. We both acknowledge we have equal parts to play in getting the fights to where they go, and that we both come from homes who dealt with conflict in deplorable manners. We both need to break from our patterns. We've been to communication retreats, marriage seminars, read books, and had much counseling. There is no lack of effort on either of our parts, and our communication HAS gotten a bit better.
About 2 years ago one of my husband's counselors (not an ADD-specific counselor) was trying to help my husband out with his meds as H was describing his usual qualms and difficulties. He was trying Vyvanse for a while and everything seemed much better- fights were dealt with calmly/rationally. H could finally sleep. And his mind was clearer than ever. But H's healthcare changed at his employment and we couldn't afford Vyvanse anymore. H went back on Concerta-30mg and it felt like the air was sucked out of our home. I was living with a different person and we began fighting again. H's couselor kind of laid out a timeline for him and pointed out how his thinking changed/aggression changed/ our fighting began right after this drug switch, noting that he didn't think H should get off meds-just to be aware of that. After trying a lower dose of concerta for a while H and I both determined we didn't think this drug was working well for us and he switched back to adderall (30mg?). I like him better on adderall but we still felt like he was too aggressive so the past 6 months we decided he'd go down to 10mg adderall and work his way up to see which dosage worked best. The previous 5 months seemed great on the marriage front. But H was still dropping the ball at work and a little at home. Not worried about him dropping the ball at home-I can carry quite a heavy load. But the work life had us worried. So 1 month ago he went back up to 15mg adderall. We almost split up this month. We were brought to our lowest points ever in our marriage. This is not to say I didn't truly offend him at certain instances and that he didn't truly play a part in his own reaction. But it has me wondering- how much of our fighting is due the stimulant? Keeping in mind he was drinking every evening while on it- how much does that play a part in his reaction to my offenses? Offenses such as making an off-color joke at the wrong time or saying "you promised you would help me today, and you haven't been helping very much." These are truly offensive to him and things I feel bad for and have apologized for, but nothing that can't be solved with a rational conversation.
I didn't know what to do and we couldn't seem to have a rational conversation to resolve the issues. So I gave him an ultimatum, which I now regret but I also truly don't know what else I would have done to calm him down-I had already apologized for everything I had done to hurt him. He had to stop drinking and go back down to 10mg adderrall or I was separating from him for 6 months. Also, to be clear, I had already made it known for quite a few years, but especially the past month, that I was uncomfortable with his drinking as I was beginning to see a pattern of fighting after he had drank, so I would like him to not anymore. He would say, "but I won't be able to sleep." And I understand that.
After the ultimatum, he immediately agreed to stop drinking and it has been 3 days and we had an interesting conversation last night. I feel terrible about the ultimatum, and he feels terrible for not listening to my concerns for all these years and we have truly reconciled. But he he is so frustrated with this whole situation. He doesn't want to be on meds at all, but definitely not if he can't drink. But he also recognizes that destructive pattern he's in and how it's effecting our marriage. He doesn't want to pretend he is something that he is not and wants to be accepted in his place of work just as he is, not as they need him to be on drugs. He wants to be free of ADD obviously, but ultimately, excepted just as the imperfect, unique, intelligent, caring person he is. So he's off the meds and we will see what happens with his job. I should also mention, he's a very fit and healthy person (on the keto diet most days unless he's lifting heavy) so any recommendations about working out and eating to fuel your brain are already in place. He's just a true case of ADD and has a really hard time in this demanding work world without the meds.
Are we missing something here? Any advice from your perspective?
Thank you
Alcohol
Submitted by CaliforniaGirl on
I do not have ADHD. I drink wine and the occasional Scotch and I enjoy it. That said, alcohol really doesn't help anyone and alcohol is *especially unhelpful* for those with frontal lobe issues. Alcohol lessens inhibition, affects memory, can escalate emotions, have a negative effect on good decision making and so forth... these are all things that are challenges for ADHD individuals to begin with.
Edited to add: Alcohol also actually disrupts sleep. You may fall asleep faster, but you are more likely wake up throughout the night and not get into or stay in a state of deep sleep.
Your partner is an adult and can make his own decisions, of course... but...
susyt430....
Submitted by c ur self on
I would be just like your husband in disposition (wanting acceptance w/o meds, most would in my opinion)...BUT, this world doesn't care about our unique talents...It cares about producing, and the bottom line...So, to not recognize limitations I might have (my reality) when it comes to my ability to produce, communicate clearly, (clear calm verbal exchanges, listen for understanding), retention of information and learned skills, etc...Then it's my responsibility to do something....(find something that I'm more qualified for, and medication is just one option I might have to consider, if that is what it takes for me to be responsible to the demands of a day).....
My wife is subscribed 30 mg of adderall a day...She takes 10...She use to take 15....She takes it only when she wakes up....Never during the day (she is offended by it, and want discuss it, w/o a bad attitude most of the time, so I rarely mention her meds)...She would probably never get any sleep if she took it during the day...She struggles to fall a sleep most nights from the effects of her morning dose....She has the usual struggles (usual for her anyway) getting out of bed is one of those, she sets multiple alarms and only gets up when she has to rush to get ready and leave....And she is not fit to have any type discussion during these times, unless she initiates it of course lol.....She will just stop getting ready when engaged...And then turns loud, blaming and disrespectful when she realizes she has lost her focus....So I have to realize it,and be quiet (not engage) or just find something to do out side the house for both of our sakes, while she is rushing to get ready...My wife listens to books on tape to help her fall asleep...She would let a TV stay on all night in the bedroom if I would allow it (wakes me up, she is snoring, i can't go back to sleep)...So we do not put a TV in our bedroom....Other things that help her fall a sleep is for us to share in book reading...I read to her, when she falls a sleep I mark it, and turn out the lamp....The only problems w/ that is, when I fall asleep first and start rereading the same paragraph, then she has to take the book and read, or she uses her book on tape....(I can usually hang in, if it's not to late)...Massages help her to relax, but, orgasms doesn't seem to...Orgasms puts me out like a sleeping pill....(maybe that's just a man thing)
My wife is a caring loving person, but, she rarely does anything that is strictly for someone else...Even our adult children or grand children...She will go visit, but, she has a plan to entertain herself, and wants to force them to go along....She wants to be having fun, some kind of activity, (the more thrill seeking the better for her) or just laid up in front of a tv for hours (recorded programs)...not much in between....Not a fan of cleaning or the mundane....
The worse thing I can do, is make her problems my own (arguments will always ensue)...It's just better for the spouse to leave it alone....When we don't, it makes bad situations worse every time....Just my opinion....Relational Damage is usually the out come, when we can't relate, but, try to anyway....You and I have enough work to manage our lives well each new day we are blessed to enjoy...(full time job).....When most of our attempts at relating are "wanting something" that's not being given freely already...That causes tension, and it is the cause of most all of our arguments...Never press another human being...And always take Ownership of your actions....If our spouses have to be pressed, in order to meet our requirements for a spouse, then they never will.....
You can set boundaries in order to limit intrusive behavior, and if you both respect them, they can help alleviate your disagreements....But, you must accept the limitations your minds are producing because of your differences.....We will never be the person we should be in the relationship, or in life in general, if we excuse...Mothering or Co-D....Not everyone is fit to be in a 2=1 relationship, not everyone is capable of sharing, unity, and being attentive to another persons needs....This type person's life Overwhelms them (for what ever reasons).....But it doesn't make sense to me to make an enemy out of someone we claim to love, just because we refuse to accept reality.
I've seen plenty of people on this site...Type "I didn't sign up for this".....But they really did......"In sickness and health until death do us part"....See mental health is the same as physical health...But much worse, because it's not visible to the untrained eye....So it's much easier to try to hide and be in denial of.....
My wife does very little drinking of alcohol....She will have a drink, or wine on rare occasions....Your husband is just trying to survive...Like us all....I don't agree w/ some of the things he is doing.,.But then again, I'm not him....Life for some is like fighting fires... (Over Whelming) It doesn't come as easy for some...Mental Health issues, is one of those reasons.... My house doesn't look like it would if I lived alone, my ability to have a conversation with my present spouse, doesn't at all mirror anything that was capable with my late wife...(passed way at age 49)....Do I like the limitations? Why No....Does she do things better than my late wife, that I do like?...Yes....So everyone is unique, (lives in different minds) and that reality must be accepted.....I would just suggest to you to focus on quietly loving him as you see openings to do so.....And let him figure out his life....
Just don't allow yourself to grow old wishing for what isn't there....(judging his capabilities is fools gold, and will leave you angry and bitter if you fall into that trap)...Live as a responsible adult...That may mean many things (children, no children, job outside the home or not)....Just don't cover over truth saying Oh, it will be OK, when you are just digging a deeper hole to bury yourself and marriage in.....
Expectations are killers.....Acceptance of reality (no matter how much we hate it) can lead to a life without regret.....
Also...Think about your Spiritual Health....What is inside us will find it's way out....
Blessings
c
Thank you both for your
Submitted by suzyt430 on
Thank you both for your comments. C, I'm sorry for the loss of your first wife. I totally agree with what you're saying. I am working hard on letting more things go and not engage in conversations that I know will lead to a more heated discussion. Because in reality, it's not worth it! I need to keep the peace over being "heard" and "understood." I like what you're saying about making our spouse's problems our own, and I think that's a huge factor in my felt need to control and manage this situation. We recently had a son also and I think that motherly protective instinct is coming out and I can handle being hurt my husband but I don't want to see it damage our son. But I need to let go of that too! My husband has a good heart and that's truly all that matters.
I think I'm struggling with the boundaries. In our counseling and communication retreats there was heavy emphasis put on valuing the other person's feelings no matter whether you feel they are valid or not. And equal emphasis put on stopping a heated and disrespectful conversation in it's tracks, then respecting that stop. One of my contentions with H this past month was that we had agreed to put these things in place and he wasn't following through them. I was not perfect either on the "validating your feelings" front but can easily respect the pause in a fight (I don't need to process verbally as much as he does). So it was frustrating because it felt like he was totally unable to pause a fight and stop pursuing me which brought me to the thought that the stimulant mixed with alcohol was impairing his judgment and then led to the ultimatum.
In my mind 20% of the cause of our explosive fights is due to what's actually said and how it's handled and 80% is due to irrational rage and anger caused by the drug/alcohol influence. My husband would flip those figures. I'm not saying I'm right nor is he necessarily right. 50/50 perhaps? But since he's stopped taking the stimulant and drinking, it's like i'm living with a whole different person. And we've been having tough discussions and haven't blown up yet. He's been super understanding and not getting easily ruffled when I've slipped up and said something stupid! I'm ok with letting things go and trying to be the most respectful/least controlling wife I can be. Going to work on that regardless! But what to do when he keeps pushing like he did? Everything from my perspective is pointing to the substance influence. How hard am I allowed to push/control when it really seems like the substances are the problem? Or am I totally wrong!?!? This is the dilemma...
He took 15mg adderall today and it's going well so far (he got too scared not to take it anymore after our last conversation-he really doesn't want to lose his job). He is not going to drink for 6 months. Then I hope we will see more clearly. We may end up running into this issue again. If we still have bad fights while he's not drinking, then we'll know its just our poor communication :) I don't want him to feel controlled by me or resentful but at the same time...Am I allowed to push hard for what I need in this scenario if it's clear that he can't drink anymore? Even if that means he can't sleep?
Thanks again guys, this is forum is a nice place to process.
Possible role of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD)
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
Have you investigated the possible role of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD) in conjunction with his ADHD? The 'irrational rage' can be a symptom of RSD. See the link below from this site regarding RSD:
https://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/what-rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-...
Ahh yes I came across that
Submitted by suzyt430 on
Ahh yes I came across that article a little while back and pushed it aside because I thought it would be a tricky subject to bring up with him. I think the description fits him really well. His dad left him as a young boy too so if he was already pre-disposed to this then that didn't make it any better! Looking into how I can best help a person with this kind of thinking/behavior and how to not make things worse. Also trying to formulate a good way to maybe??? bring it up...thanks for passing it along.
Breaking the cycle suzyt
Submitted by c ur self on
Pressing or pushing as you say it...Is most of what we do...(we, meaning the spouse who feels they are dealing w/ unacceptable behaviors, you in this case).....It's tricky....It's usually never done in a respectful way...Because no one wants to (or isn't able to) set patiently and listen....Because we say so much over such a long period, the dynamic causes instant anxiety, and defensiveness.....
I think the best way to push for what we want is by text, email or letters.....And it should be as much about our love for them, as it is about the reality of the things you are being forced to face, and that needs to change to give you two a chance....He has to sleep....At some point we have to stop....We have to walk away from the pressing....He needs help putting into practice the changes that will benefit him as a husband, father and for his own peace....You should suggest that maybe?....He is hearing you, but, he may feel helpless to help himself....But, his pride keeps him in denial of saying....I need help.....He feels broken...He has to hear you, and see you everyday, being malcontented with him....(That's heart breaking for a husband, if he cares at all) It's real hard to feel good (self worth) about yourself when you know you are letting your wife down, just by being yourself....
Try to make sure he knows you are on his side.....Try to refuse to argue....I know how hard it is to be silent when you feel you are seeing the big picture (but, he will have to see it for himself, and he want until you stop pressing him, he probably want let him self)...Words are destructive and we can't take them back....It's up to you to break the cycle...And you need help also....
c
C, thank you for sharing your
Submitted by suzyt430 on
C, thank you for sharing your story and insight. Your thoughts have been very helpful. He definitely feels like he's failing me and you're right, he needs to feel like I'm behind him and pressing on the negative to change is not helpful for his self-esteem and self-image. I've been reading alot about ADD the past two days, and we both watched a documentary that talks about how ADD people see themselves in a negative light and like they don't fit well or function well in our society. Doctors just want to drug them and then they get on these meds and do feel better. Anyone would feel like they can accomplish more on Adderall or Ritalin. But what that's doing to people with ADD on a mental and self-esteem level is very destructive and I need to not do that as well! How awful for him to have no one on your side! This is not to say that ADD meds aren't life savers in many cases, our case as well. But the self image is not being taken care of in many ADD individuals. Their minds are assets in so many ways.
H contacted his Dr. about stopping drinking and having the sleep issues on the stimulant which he's talked with her about before. She always pushes an anti-depressant on him and he makes it clear every time that's not a route he wants to go. Combat one substances effects with another! Aren't there any other options? I wish she were more helpful but it seems to be the norm! But we are considering clonodine or guanfacine in conjunction with adderall or in place of it (not based on her suggestion, but based on our research-ugh!). First though, he did some research on herbal sleep aids. Melatonin hasn't been super helpful. He ordered some valerian root to see if that helps before we introduce another drug with some negative side-effects.
Adderal
Submitted by Dagmar on
My husband picked so many crazy fights with me on Adderal that I didn't feel safe. It wasn't that he was physically threatening me, he was just picking on me out of the blue and refusing to stop until I lost my temper. It was bad.
It didn't start out that way, but after a few years and with the added stress of a baby. . .it as terrible.
Dagmar, What did you guys end
Submitted by suzyt430 on
Dagmar, What did you guys end up doing about it? Or is it still an issue?
Uhhhhh, I hate to say this...
Submitted by Dagmar on
The doctor put him on Vyvanse, and it worked pretty well.
Haha! Isn't that the truth!
Submitted by suzyt430 on
Haha! Isn't that the truth! It really is a great ADD med in our case at least. And yours too it seems! H has a counselor that calls it "The Cadillac." He says if he ever wins the lotto the first thing he would do would be to treat his wife to an early retirement and the second thing he would do is treat my husband to "The Cadillac!" Haha!! Glad it worked for you guys. It really may end up being our only option... Hoping to find a way to make it happen
We'll see how well Vyvanse worked
Submitted by Dagmar on
My husband went off his meds a few months ago and is going back on - it's been a struggle because I guess doctors are hesitant to prescribe it again if you just stop taking it. This time they put him on Concerta. It's been two days. We'll see how that goes.
Medication question
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
Wondering if your husband has tried to get the branded generic? This is the generic made by the same company that makes an original medication, without the brand name on it. It's the exact same medication, and it's cheaper by definition. This is what I do with my Concerta. The only other thing I am wondering is whether there is a short-term acting form of Vyvanse and whether it would be cheaper to get a prescription that allotted for several a day, if so. Not ideal, but trying to think outside the box here. I know how important it is to have the right medication at the right dosage.
It is becoming so apparent to
Submitted by suzyt430 on
It is becoming so apparent to me how important the right drug and dosage is! Unfortunately, Vyvanse has a patent for quite a few more years. It's a "newer" drug comparatively on the market. And it is by nature long-acting like Concerta...
Thanks for your thoughts
Ugh. You are right.
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
Yes, looks like no generic until 2023. Has he been tested for MTHFR? I was able to cut my dosage in half with methylated B12 and folate. So, what I am saying is if it is a problem, the B12 and folate will improve symptoms. I have also found vitamin C powder to help me focus, as well as potassium and B6. But honestly, you might need a good Naturopath for this or integrative nutritionist, and sounds like your insurance stinks. What works depends on individual mutations in the methylation pathways. But just a thought. Super awesome that he's a good eater. I am, too. But did you know that too much protein can make some people aggressive? Check out The 7 Types of ADHD. Good book.
Link to article on 7 types of ADHD
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
https://www.additudemag.com/slideshows/7-types-of-add-adhd-amen/
I'm the boring old combined type. ;) But I have noticed friends and students have some different symptoms from me-symptoms that explain their terrible reaction to some or all medications, among other things. Hope this link works.
I wonder what you could cut
Submitted by ADHDMomof2 on
I wonder what you could cut out of your lives to afford the Vyvanse while you look for other insurance? Cable, Starbucks (assuming you drink coffee), going out to eat? $400- is a RIDICULOUS amount of money. It may be that it's cheaper to pay for that than for a divorce, because it sounds like he's out of control right now. This may not be feasible, still. Just a thought.
ADHDmomof2, thank you so much
Submitted by suzyt430 on
ADHDmomof2, thank you so much for your thoughts and resources. Will be reading the book you mentioned and I will definitely look into getting him tested for those deficiencies. Maybe I'll just order them and have him take them anyways!! And yes I think we're just going to have to make the Vyvanse happen. We just had another blowout last night and he threatened suicide if I didn't come home. He is still alive, thank God. We just need to be done with Adderall. The cheapest price Iv'e found is $310 at Costco. So that's alot better! We don't have cable, nor do we buy any fast food or starbucks. I grocery shop at ALDI! We don't go anywhere either...We just don't make alot of money and are paying a car loan and student loans. But I think we can make it happen even so. It's a necessity at this point. Thanks again for your very helpful information, I think you're right.
If he threatens suicide
Submitted by Brindle on
It would really fry my fritters if my husband said, “Come home or I will kill myself.” That is the worst kind of manipulation. I really don’t even care if the meds are making things worse - that’s manipulative and should be nipped in the bud by calling emergency services. Calling emergency services does two things - 1) gets him the emergency help he needs if he really is feeling suicidal and 2) shows him that those words are not to be thrown around and that you won’t be manipulated by them.
If he threatens that again, call the police. They will get the help he needs by getting him to a psychiatrist who can observe him more closely and take that stress off your back, and they can figure out his med situation.
I agree 100% with Brin....
Submitted by c ur self on
When an individual with no convictions for right living, learns that they don't have to manage life responsibly... Because they can use others as a crutch, they learn to master that strategy....And, they will play as dirty as they have to, in order to control their crutch....Desperation is just a form of control....Anyone who wants to take their own life can't be stopped....
And many of us who are easy prey for dependents, (esp..family) find it extremely difficult to not intervene...Most of the conflict around these type relationships starts when the Co-dependant angrily points out to the dependant the dysfunction of their life styles....(Right after we just baled them out yet again)...
If a person is surrounded by unstable and irresponsible individuals long enough, they become addicted to Co-dependency also....It becomes a vicious cycle, unless we take ownership of our roles, and endure the pain of breaking it...No matter the cost....
The end results of stopping any dysfunctional dynamic is good....Because we really didn't have anything substantial, real or lasting to begin with.....Not to say people aren't important, and our marriages aren't important....But, what I am saying is....Many of us have one-sided marriages, that can't last, because their isn't two being responsible to the task....IMO,,Very few of us, learn to step away from adult dependents whom we are emotionally involved with, (spouse or close family) and allow them to battle life (learn to function responsibly) for them selves....We usually end up getting a divorce first....Are the dependent leaves when they can't get carried any longer.....
There have been a lot of angry and bitter men and women on this site, who have suffered greatly (for years) w/ nothing to show for it....No Love, No healthy attachment....
I realized I needed to step back and breathe, and let some of my family grow up, without my interference or advice....They loved it when I quietly baled them out, or enable them....They hate it when I give them wise advice about the dead end road they are on....There is never a winner!
c