Before I say anything, please know that I am a confident and non-jealous person after years of being married to my husband, Mr. Charisma and Charm. I will make this short since the story is soooo long. He is constantly hitting it off with women (children also) that have issues. He then adopts them as "little sisters" and family but has on many occasions been alone with these women to eat, on one occasion on a business trip, to movies, texting, calling, etc. I have talked to him about it and even had him replace himself and the woman with two other people we may know so he can see how it would look in his mind and I get the "we are talking about me not them" line. He seems to think he is untouchable and that he has good intentions, which I believe he does, but we should never test ourselves. I told him that I am uncomfortable with his hanging alone with these women and he said I am jealous and that nothing is going on. I believe him but I can't stand the disregard toward my feelings. Of course, when he does cede, it doesn't come without making me pay for it in the way of mopiness and malicious obedience and "fine, I won't go!". I feel I have the right to say what makes me uncomfortable and if nothing is going on, for him to include me in his plans with the person. I can't be everywhere and know everything though so I know that he will probably still talk on the phone with these women with issues since they have an emotional connection. When we first married, I was 17 and he was 22. Yeah, I know. We went to visit his friends so I could meet some of them and he let a 15 yr old girl he knew when she was little sit on his lap. I told him to get her off and he said I was being ridiculous. He is now 47 and acts the same way. In his head, he can do nothing wrong. I recently left him for a month (that was the hardest thing I ever did) and this was one of my issues yet he continues to entertain the idea of hanging out with anyone he wants and sees nothing wrong with it and even says "hey, there was a kid with us so we were not alone". Very exhausting. What ever happened to "happy wife, happy life"? I understand perhaps he may not fall in like or love with them but what about the woman who is so impressed by his charm, humor, energy, insignhfulness and caring (things that he can show others but not me)? I find it disrespectful and also not being aware of how it looks to the public. Believe me, I would know exactly what to do if he messed up. I mean, would I miss the pain and suffering of living with a person with his issues? No. But does ADHD make you outrightly disrespect your wife's wishes time and time again and minimize how she feels? It doesn't make sense. Do I always have to adjust and correct, only for him to tell me I suffocate and nag him? He can be at a girlfriend's house with her 12 yr old child for hours catching up while I am home and in bed. What is that? Then I question him, he tells me exactly where he was and he says he was not alone with her. I don't doubt his loyalty but I question his false sense of security in himself and others. He minimizes and justifies. Am I crazy?
Husband's relationships with opposite sex
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on 05/18/2015.
Hi...NGLMS....
Submitted by c ur self on
Coming along side people, widow's and orphans...People who are hurting and in need is our calling as Believers...But, your husband is out of line...He needs a Christian Counselor to help bring perspective to him. God will never lead him into a place where his good is evil spoken of...If he feels lead to love other's he needs to start w/ men. Your place is to be the resource and sharer to the ladies...
C
Outta line...yes
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
You are right. He will fight me on that. Someone told him that the concersation should stop when your wife says it makes her uncomfortable and he fought them too saying that they didn't understand. My boundaries are not optional anymore. He will do anything for anyone and #1 should be me. I am not saying he can't hang with females however, I should be part of that.
You're right
Submitted by c ur self on
Rebellion is carnal...It's not spiritual...His first command like all us husbands is to live with our wives in and understanding manner...To love them like Jesus loves the church and gave himself for us.....I promise if you start hanging out with other men, it would not go as smooth.
blessings C
He is getting "something" out of all of this.....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I'm not saying that he's cheating, but he's getting some kind of "high" out of having the attention of these women.
The father of one of our kids' friends behaved this way. We never saw any evidence of cheating (sex), but his behavior was like he was having "emotional affairs". His ego was being stroked by getting attention from these women.
Another friend's husband likes to grow roses and then he cuts them, puts them in vases, and brings them to work to give to the few women that work there (none for his wife). He doesn't "get it" that his behavior is inappropriate. He loves all the attention he gets, all the "oh, thank you, you're great," etc, that goes on when he does this.
Your H is getting some kind of "high" out of the reactions of these women, "you're such a great guy," "what would I do without you," and so forth.
Believe me, your H would not be happy if you started doing the same with a few male friends. Try it and see. lol
In the meantime, get yourselves to a couple's therapist who will tell him that this is inappropriate....but before you go, have a record of these times....dates, how long he was with them, etc.
Yes. Since i can no longer
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
Yes. Since i can no longer provide the rush.
Yes, that is exactly it. He gets some kind of rush....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
It's like falling in love, or the game of pursuit....it can be like a drug, as you say, a rush. That rush can be addictive.
He gets some kind of thrill from this....and believe me, deep down he knows it which is why he'd be annoyed if you did this, too. Even if he were to say, "I wouldn't mind if you did this," it likely would bother him a LOT.
I can see this...
Submitted by c ur self on
I believe you ladies are right on...my wife has done things of this nature w/ no intent of starting a relationship....She was single for 46 years....And always lived on the edge to fill her thrill seeking hunger.....(she tells me now, she had no idea what message she was conveying) This kind of actions and poor decision making continued after we married...When I would call her attention to it...She would tell me it was my baggage and insecurities:) ...She is much better now, as a matter of fact the way she conducts herself and dresses etc...Is totally different....
Your husband probably truly believes he's with in his personal rights to pursue other's like he does...That's what makes it so difficult....It's almost impossible for spouse's to convey this message...It's really a good place for a mature third party....
Yes, a 3rd party needs to intervene.....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I can tell you this.....If you were to ask your H if he would mind if you did the same, he would likely say, "Oh, I wouldn't mind". lol But, just try it and see. It doesn't even have to be an instance that is as inappropriate as the ones he does.
If you have a male friend that you trust that would be willing to "go to lunch" with you, it would be interesting how your H would react.....especially if you were late getting home. If you tell your H ahead of time, and he acts like it's no big deal, then call his bluff and go. If you're concerned that "two wrongs don't make a right," then invite a female friend to come along, but don't mention that to your H. BUT....take some "group pics" of the outing in case your H really blows a head gasket so you can THEN later show that you weren't alone with this guy.
One of the problems with ADHD and other mental health issues is that those affected have a VERY hard time imagining HOW they would feel about a situation....until they actually are experiencing it.
Another example....when our kids were little, H would golf, go to the gym, play racquetball, play tennis, etc....leaving me alone a LOT with the kids, while he played with his friends. I would ask him, "how would you like it if I did that?" Oh, he would say, "I wouldn't mind...you should do that." lololol Well, I signed up to to a weekly volunteer position at a local charity. It was for Tuesday nights from 6-9 pm. AFTER I WENT ONE TIME, H insisted that he go with me. lol So much for "I wouldn't mind." And every time after that, whenever I would participate in anything away from him, he would whine, complain, etc. He truly could not imagine the feelings that he would have AHEAD of time. He had to actually "be in that situation" (me being gone) for him to imagine what that would be like and to feel what he'd feel.
I don't know what your H's past was like.....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
....but in the two cases that I described above, neither H dated much before marriage (awkward, low self esteem, etc). They didn't get much female attention during their single days.
Well, now that they're grown up and in the work force, women are giving them attention that they never got before. Again....what a thrill. What a stroke to the ego.
My H actually had one incident that would fall under this category. H was very shy in high school, but did date a lot later. Several years ago, H went back for his high school reunion. I was supposed to go, but we had a health issue with one of our kids, so I stayed home.
Well, H was the "belle of the ball" so to speak. He was far the most financially successful. Plus, H grew in college, and was now 6' 2", attractive, tanned, nice blue eyes. So, all the girls who had ignored him in high school were flirting with him, particularly the divorced ones.
When H came home, he told me everything...dancing with all these girls, etc. I didn't care. He even drove one home who had drank too much. Again, I didn't care. But it was a MAJOR stroke to his ego. Major stroke.
Well, then a couple years later, I went to my high school reunion with my best high school friend (our H's couldn't get off work to travel). I was surprised that a male classmate asked me out for drinks after the reunion. I thanked him but told him that I'm married....my wedding ring at that time looked more like a cocktail ring than a traditional wedding ring, so I can understand why he was mistaken.
Anyway, I told H the next day (by phone), and he was LIVID....absolutely livid...(what a hypocrite!!!). He insisted that I must have "done something" to encourage this guy. He even insisted that I probably went out for drinks anyway. lol....I was shocked and reminded him of what happened at HIS reunion. So what...that was "different"....lololol....sure, right, different....lol. When I flew home, the anger continued and thankfully our kids "put him in his place" about how hypocritical he was being....especially since I didn't do ANYTHING with this guy, while he DANCED with other girls. (this is the reason why I wrote above that the husband would get angry if his wife behaved like he does.)
wow-this is my life
Submitted by dvance on
In the past two years DH has crossed a line with three separate women that I know of. Two years ago, the night before DH went into the hospital for being suicidal, I found a ton of emails between him and some woman he had met at a work function. The emails were things like "your wife just doesn't understand what a great guy you are" or "your morning calls are the best thing of my whole day". WHAT?? And the explanation was "it's because I can't talk to you.". Okay then. I have no idea if they kept in touch through his three week hospital stay and the subsequent six months he moved out, 4 of which he wouldn't speak to me. Then there was the alcoholic, bipolar woman he met in the hospital. Her he is still in contact with, two and a half years later. At first it was texting and emails, but again--I have no way to know what went on while he was moved out. And now he has a work phone that has a finger-ID thing so I couldn't check it if I wanted to. In October I found emails from the hospital lady--she sent him links to Barbra Streisand videos--she tagged The Way we Were as the one that makes her think of him. She told him she wishes she had gotten healthy enough to make a life with him and our two boys. Again, WHAT??? And his explanation--I didn't want to be rude to her, telling her not to keep contacting me. I swear I don't answer her. Okay then. And over the summer, there was the single lady from our church--she really is great and a good friend (no more) and he spent umpteen hours building a dream tree house for HER son and one night he never came home. What happened?? He worked until 1am and then she made margaritas and he was too drunk to drive home so he crashed there. In his dirty work clothes. Yeah right. Now he has a job where he travels Monday through Friday so I have no way to know what goes on or who he meets. Like so many other ADHD husbands, he is funny, charming, witty and could hold a conversation with a rock but long term??? The mundane-ness of daily life? No way. In the past month I have gotten my hair cut, highlighted and gotten a spray tan and he has not noticed any of that. We don't have sex very often and my counselor asked me if I think DH is still into me and I really did not know what to say. I have no idea if he is into me any more actually. But I digress--other women--YUP. I suspect it's the adrenaline rush, the newness, the thrill of attention from a new person, the idea that someone new thinks you're great. I can understand that. It sucks to be on the other end, but it totally fits with the whole ADHD profile.
Yikes, I see my ADHD Spouse here!
Submitted by Kansasry on
dvance,
I see soo much of my husband here. I've only known about adult attention disorder for a year now so I'm still learning what that really looks like. And oh my gosh the public persona of charm, wit, and sex appeal is spot on. Hubby was awesome to me me for the 30 years we were friends and the 6 months engagement until we lived together! Then, it stopped. You are so right, the long term ability to maintain isn't there.
Like you, my husband no longer pays attention to me. He goes on and on about what he thinks hot looks like and it's not a description of me. I'm 43 but I take good care of myself. Yet he teases me about my looks and style so in the last few months I changed my make up, nails and hair color to match what I could of what he liked. I drew the line at the tan, I'm three shades lighter than a ghost, I couldn't take a tan! And not one word that he noticed my efforts. I suppose having an attractive wife isn't as thrilling as hunting a hot 28 year old.
So, do you just live with the fact that an ADHD spouse will behave this way due to the ADHD and go without the attention most other spouses would love to shower on their SO or is there anyway to bring this to their attention?
First of all do not change
Submitted by dvance on
First of all do not change anything for HIM. I did the hair-tan thing for me. Who cares what he thinks? He never really looks at me anyway. And by the way I am so pale as to be almost transparent--that's why I did the tan. It looks great--if you have a Benefit Salon by you, that's where I go for all my waxing and grooming (not hair) and the tan they did was natural looking. BUT...don't do it for him. I have given up even caring if I get attention from him. He travels Monday through Friday for work pretty much every week. Last week he got home last Friday night and didn't leave again until Tuesday morning and during that time he did not touch me once. I don't mean no sex, I mean literally no touching--not a hug, not a kiss, not a hand hold, not a cuddle in bed--in fact he turns over facing away from me in bed. Last year I lost 20 pounds. Since January I have gained 9 back. Sucks. Maybe that's why he is not that into me any more, but geez--are we that superficial after 20 years of marriage. I am 45 for gods sake and not overweight by any stretch. It is truly bizarre to live in the parallel world of ADHD. To the world they are the most charming, helpful, funny, engaging person. At home--never finishes anything, doesn't think about the consequences of their actions, helpful as long as it is interesting or suits them at the moment. Stop caring. Do without the attention or get it somewhere else. Accept what is, not what you wish.
This isn't normal behavior adhd or not......
Submitted by c ur self on
I don't think adhd is the reason he's not responding to you...What kind of man adhd or not can lay in bed with his 45 year old wife and not be all over her?
My wife isn't fond of sex anymore because she's post menopause, post chemo which did a number on her and she suffers w/pain during intercourse....But, she understand's my needs and makes an effort for me ever so often...I hope things change for the better dvance, I'm truly sorry you dealing with this...I can't think of anything more frustrating and depressing than being in a marriage that one or both parties has quit on....
C
Plausable Deniability C and Dvance...
Submitted by kellyj on
is different from denial I think. I think the term speaks for itself only to point out the obvious....some things really are just excuses with full intention and knowledge on the other person part...not from denial but as a straight up excuse. The reasons why this is is what I begin to question? Why do I wonder in the first place what's wrong? Why can't I figure this out to what I'm seeing and what they are telling me? If you find yourself making excuses for them in your own explanation it's good place to look to see if this is true or not. I did this so many times in my past it's hard not to do sometimes. Yet, if the actions don't match up with the plausible deniability no matter how rational it sounds....after a while you have to begin to wonder? I really try to keep track of things that get said when I can't explain this to see if this is true or not but you really can't tell unless you have some time to stand back for while in order to do this:)
J
J--I am sorry--I don't
Submitted by dvance on
J--I am sorry--I don't understand your comment. Can you explain? You usually have really useful and helpful insights, but this one I just don't get!!!!!
dvance
All Things Considered Dvance ;)
Submitted by kellyj on
People do what they want to do, or what they are going to do and there is little you can do to stop them.
I'll leave that statement stand alone and give you my thoughts or maybe wisdom in this case from just experiences I've had with disappointment. If I look back at some painful moments at times when someone has hurt me emotionally....I can see at the time it was a painful experience because it was something personal to me but really.....in every case it was really just a matter of being disappointed that something didn't happen that I didn't like and I chose to take it personally. We just didn't get what we wanted that's all. Aside from air, water, food,clothing and shelter from the elements...are there any needs other than that?
Unless you are attacked and physically injured....it's pretty hard to argue that anyone did anything too you or hurt you. Can someone really hurt your emotions or is this just disappointment that we feel after all?
I'll leave that one sit by itself too and I'll give you a recent reference to explain what I mean to put this into context of a series of events that have happened in my neighborhood recently. There's this young kid (I'm calling him but he's really in his late 20's I think) who was renting a house on my street bit moved away as the house was sold. This guy I'm sure is a drug addict of some kind (meth I'm thinking) yet he's a friendly and personable enough guy in all most respects and works for himself as a landscaper. He's come around and solicited most of us (my neighbors) for work and he's done work in the past for many of us and did a fine job and works hard for a fair price. In all respects there is not much to say about him either good or bad and he appears to me as someone who is trying really hard to live his life and make the best of it. I personally don't have a problem with him and neither do the neighbors in that he is respectful in behavior in every respect of the word.
He keeps coming back around the neighborhood looking for work as he did before and appears to always have a good reason for doing this as I just said. Recently, one by one....myself and my neighbors have all noticed things missing from our yards. Little things of not much consequence yet it's still annoying and disappointing to find them gone. Without question, we all have come to the same conclusion since it is so obvious who is taking these things and none of us want this guy coming back around because we know he is the one stealing our yard tools and other miscellaneous stuff. UPS packages off doorsteps, metal, materials....anything that is available to take that is not locked down and secured.
One neighbor installed a video camera to catch whoever is doing this and we all have had to watch that we don't leave things out as we did before since in all the time we've lived in the neighborhood this has never happened before as it appears to be now.
And still, this guy keeps coming around for more work and there is little anyone can do to stop him from doing just that. He's not doing anything illegal and has every right to do what he is doing. The other day some workers who were hired to do some construction next door to me (who also had been missing some tools), approached this guy when he was removing some old stumps from the house next to the one where they were working (on the property line) and saw some of their tools in the back of his truck. When they pointed out that those were their tools he said..."oh, I thought those were my tools and got them mixed up because they were right here next to where I was working." This was reasonable aside from the fact that everyone already knew he was the one taking all of our stuff including the contractors. He gave them their tools and left after he was done working. And yet, he still comes around and there is nothing anyone can do until he is caught red handed in the act?
This kid is just an opportunist and takes things when he has the chance as we all speculated to buy drugs because he's an addict. He really is a landscaper and does the work this is true and not a professional thief by trade yet.... he's still a petty thief and no one wants him around. You can't stop him from coming around looking for work as he has done many times in the past and he's not violating anyones rights until he takes things from our yards. We turn him down when he asks and the contractors threatened to call the police if they see him near their site but as of the other day....they're gone and now he's come back around again doing what he does. He always has plausible deniability in case he gets caught like the contractors did when they saw their tools in his truck and he always does the work he is hired to do (in the past) and always has a good reason for everything he does but still.....he's a petty thief and no one wants him around.
This kid clearly knows what he is doing is going to keep doing it and he doesn't seem to care even if he gets caught like he did with the workman next door. He knows nothing will happen to him as long as he has plausible deniability for his actions in every case to use as a story to the police and the consequence to him is minimal even when he does get caught so there is nothing to stop him and we (my neighbors and I) live with the disappointment when we go to rake some leaves or water our lawns and find our implements missing and can't do what we wanted in that moment. We also have to go buy a new tool to replace the old one and that too is annoying.
But in this case like so many others you could think of in times like this.......what we feel in those times when someone has hurt you or done something to you is just disappointment but that's not why we get upset. We get upset when we take it to mean something about us personally and interpret it that way.
This kid (in this case) is not taking things from us to hurt us or cause us damage....he's got a drug problem and needs cash to buy drugs so he pawns his tools and steals new ones to work with in the mean time. That's exactly what he is doing and that has nothing to do with me or my neighbors or anything else but just that one reason.
Is this personal? No. Is he a petty opportunists? Yes Are we disappointed? Yes. Can we stop him (really?) No, not really? (why waste the time and effort to try?) If he does this again and takes something else does any of this change? No Is there much else to be done here? No?
But if he comes around and says something aside from "I'm just in the neighborhood looking for stuff to steal from you and I was just checking to see if you also had some more work for me to do while I'm at it " Are you going to believe his plausible deniability stories that he tells you even when you catch him red handed taking your tools?
The answer to this is exactly what I said in the first sentence of this post. The question for you becomes, what are you going to do? Be hurt and take things like this personally or not allow or take that kind of hurt in in the first place. You can't make people do things but you can..... not take it personally and live with the disappointment that you didn't get what you wanted either. That's really all you can to do aside from protecting yourself from the damage in a physical sense ahead of time. ( like locking up your yard tools and not leaving them out where someone can take them) Even if you do, and someone wants your tools bad enough.....they'll find a way to get them anyway. That would be very frustrating and disappointing in the moment indeed!! Especially after going through all of that to try and keep them from stealing them again.
My choice in this real life case is not to do anything differently aside from being more mindful about leaving things out where he can get to them and not to worry about it. I'm still going to leave my shovel and rakes out when I'm working and not do anything different than I did before because it's just not worth the time, effort or the emotional energy to give to this. And if it happens again....I'll go buy a new shovel next time I'm at the hardware store but I will keep my expensive tools or ones that are hard to replace out or reach to this kid but I do that anyway so I don't spend anytime worrying about it.
Unlike my neighbor who spent a whole lot of time and expense installing a video camera to catch this kid which is not going to stop him even if he gets caught. Maybe he might catch him stealing something bigger and he will go to jail for a few months which will likely bring him back to steal directly from him next time for being the one who put him in jail. That's a very real possibility with someone who thinks like this. I choose not to do anything and not to worry about anything like this because it takes up too much mental space but that still doesn't mean I don't get nervous when I see this kid come around in the neighborhood. I just make sure I've put anything away that I can't afford to replace and go back to not worrying anymore:)
I hope this makes sense dvance? And I understand this is an idealistic way to see things but it's not that far from reality. If you don't have a choice in the physical sense of the word....you still have choices left no matter what..... in how you choose to think about it which will change the way you feel, and that choice you always have available to you.....unless your dead of course? lol
Dvance....you said, Accept what is, not what you wish. And this is what came to mind which is really just a long winded way of saying exactly the same thing. I think you and I are in complete agreement here:)
J
excellent example J...
Submitted by c ur self on
This is a great example of what I'm learning to do in my marriage relationship...I can't take personally (like it's a personal attack) my wife's hunger for the things of this life....The way she lives, the places she want's to go, the things she will spend money on. etc....It is who she is....I'm the same....Just because we struggle to get on the same page in many area's doesn't mean we can't love each other.....My love should not hinge on my ability to control her likes and dislikes nor her mine.....
(Not talking about direct attacks by way of abuse or cheating) Just our day to day living of life. It will be very different in lot's of respects, so if I expect that, and accept it....I can differentiate between disappointment and the other....
I have to face it, it's a hard thing to always want the best for someone who's best in their mind my look nothing like what you feel is best for them....So C must not get emotional about what he wants for others....Or I start down:(
Live and Let Live....That statement may look and sound simple....But is it??
Yep You are so Right C
Submitted by kellyj on
easier said than done. lol And I have failed miserably most of the time in heeding my own wisdom....ADHD or not! lol
All of you are right. I
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
All of you are right. I started singing Karaoke while he was not home working late one day a week and when I separated from him he made a cutting remark about me being "the Queen of Karaoke". I started hitting the gym with my gfriend and getting home at 11 PM and he text me "less talk more walk". Later I asked what that meant and he told me that he was looking at me through the glass and described what I was wearing. Eerie. I already know what being emotionally attached to a man who takes an interest when your husband doesn't, feels like. It felt amazing at the start then I hurt just as much as being in my marriage. I speak from experience. I never thought that could EVER happen to me and it did. The difference is that I saw, after my family and friends came to my rescue, what I was doing and the damage it could cause me and those I love. Had they not stepped in and had the other man not been a jerk, I wouldn't be on this forum. My husband is stuck on being everyone superhero and has no idea how a woman can easily fall for him even with his good intentions, especially since the women he tries to help have issues. I do have to set boundaries and consequences if they are crossed but I do hope that he can one day understand that being with a woman that you work with at 3AM (they are DJ's) driving alone from a gig together or hanging out with his "little sisters" without me can not only look bad but get a woman emotionally attached to you. Perhaps, as we get closer he will get this. Sometimes I feel he goes off with those people because I have pushed him away due to his behavior. I have to work on that too.
NGLM...Your post is a wise one....
Submitted by c ur self on
Things can and will back fire...It sounds like you've experienced enough of life to understand that....I suggest you take your own advise here...None of us on this forum needs to live life making knee jerk reactions (like I have way to often in the past) to our spouses way of thinking and living...
Many of us (especially me) based on our posts, get so overwhelmed by their behaviors we forget a vital piece; "We have lives and we should live them regardless of what's being sent our way..:)"
Blessings..
C
Amen
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
I can only control myself right? Whatever the outcome, I am ready, good or bad. Thank you!
Strange Twist of Fate NGLM (revised version)
Submitted by kellyj on
You're post resounded something from my past which think I believe very much are the things that are most important when I recalled the memory of my mother, with every good intention when she started taking me to church when I was little (actually against my will...sitting still with ADHD? it was torture!) which preceded with me getting kicked out of Sunday school for asking too many questions? What occurred to me as I read what you said was there was a very good reason for this happening which I can explain better by telling you the entire story.....
It was very important to my mother that the facts to the stories I heard were accurate. Even then I questioned this? "How could anyone possibly know there was an Adam and Eve if they were the first people"...I wound argue, back then with my mother as she wanted to hear and discuss what I learned. She would get very frustrated with me and angry for not listening to her and believing her as she would try and answer any question that I would have, which I didn't because she could not make a good case with me and insisted they were "real people" and it was important that I believe this too, no room for discussion. She was insistent that I take what she was saying for face value and not question what she was saying. "Something wasn't right here?" as I recall, and I refused to believe her even if I would give in and keep my mouth shut and agree with her just to stop the argument. The next week I would continue this debate with the poor mothers who ran the Sunday school who eventually kicked me out for disrupting the lessons. I remember feeling really angry and dismissed which only made me resent going even more.
Sometimes doing the wrong thing is for the right reasons......as I apply my own thinking here. The message of the story of Adam and Eve as it was interpreted to me by my mother as not to be bad. Bad is bad, and good is good...and in her mind, she was good and therefor, so should I be. This is how she interpreted the story to me since she was in denial of the truth herself which is what I was rebelling against. Not being told the truth. I was even punished for not believing, but actually, it was my mother who couldn't believe or see this herself which set me up for the events that happened to me.
Since that time moving forward, I never changed my position to this day, but I was not wrong in that the message or the truth, was not being told to me and I somehow knew it even back then. It is also for this reason, that my mother suffered throughout her life because she was in denial of the truth, not that she was bad herself, but because she simply could not see. She stopped seeking the truth because she was afraid of what she might find in herself because she was afraid of what was bad. She mistakenly believed what she would find was the very thing that she believed and it became a self full filling prophesy. In my mother's case at the time, she was a victim in the truest sense of the word. She had been touch by the hand of evil and it wounded her heart in a way in which the betrayal itself was the very thing that prevented her from looking there again and only perpetuated and kept the deception alive in order to prevent her from speaking up and saying anything.
What my mother could not see was her own inner strength and did not know what she believed in, because everything she believed was taught to her and controlled tightly by a her mother who was obsessed (literally possessed) with making sure she believed the same things she did out fear. Her own fear about the world and not understanding the difference...fear of evil, fear of the devil, fear of her neighbors and people in general that were not of "her kind." In my grandmothers view of the world, her kind were only the people that she met and went to church with. To the point of completely overriding and usurping every original thought or creative outlet that my mother had. In other words, she controlled my mothers autonomy like a puppet master controls a puppet with strings. She was a "thing" not a person, to be used and controlled to fit her own wishes and how she felt "things should be." This is a form of psychological abuse that takes place when a parent does this to a child. If takes away freedom of choice and removes any ability for dissent or make changes to their life as an individual. So when when my mother, first started going to her mother with anything she believed that was true or the truth, her mother (who had too had been deceived in her own thinking which had been put in her mind for the same reason)began exerting and reinforcing her beliefs overriding what my mother thought not seeing that her own thinking had been put there in reality, by someone ( or something else) than what is true....(one of her kind).... that she also herself believed based on the concept that she trusted them to say what's true and not to doubt what they told her about herself and what was good. It never occurred to her question or doubt these things and therefor could not accept in her mind that she could ever be wrong or false in any way.
With all good intentions and with love in her heart, the presence of evil used this against both my mother and grandmother for it's own self serving needs and took advantage of the opportunity out of the thing they both feared the most. Evil and deception walk hand in hand and prey on the weak and innocent. My Grandmother's ability to imagine and dream had stopped out of fear, which in turn, replaced this same fear by taking away my mothers abilities to do the same by someone (or something else). My mother stopped questioning herself which blinded her from seeing the truth. However, my mothers good intentions and her love did not fail with me because of something that happened to her as a teenager and again with me around the same age.
Despite the fact that my mother never could accept the bad or what was wrong with her and could only see the good and believed this is how people should be this is true......the same as her mother..... "should be" that had been created in her mind and what happened to her when a church elder inappropriately molested her, not once but twice after being re-invited back for a second time by my grandmother to their house for Sunday dinner. Her mother could not believe the truth as my mother told it to her after the first time it happened. My mother confused this to mean she was bad and could not see anyway of reconciliation or redemption for being wicked. In denial of what was bad not in herself, but by the hand of evil that had touched her. And as I was told the story of Adam and Eve...I somehow knew that something was missing even then and refused to believe her ( for the right reason) which also ended up as me being told I was bad by both my mother and the mothers who ran the Sunday school even though....in their minds I was preventing the true message or word from being told and needed to be excused by my behavior.
The source for denial is of the truth which is probably why I ended up being so stubborn even back then. ADHD probably helped but it's not the reason as I see it. Not believing what is wrong is not wrong and I knew it back then and have never changed even at times when I lost site of it... which in a strange twist of fate, my mother did something that changed the face of evil that had touched her into love for me and drew her inner courage and went face to face with her fears. She reached down inside herself despite her fears and went toe to toe with my father head on. "Bring it on Mother F*$#er" was her challenge to my father when she recognized something that she knew was wrong out of her love for me at great risk and fear of retaliation to her self (in my own words here of course) from the man she deferred herself to in everyway to tell her how to navigate and defined who she was. In this moment, a miracle occurred and she took her self back and took him on in no uncertain terms almost over night when she seized the opportunity with both hands for a second chance to make a stand for what she believed was right and true out of the goodness in her heart and the love that was there and had been there all along. I did have to pay a price for this lesson it is true, but the admission fee was worth every penny for the price I paid for believing in myself enough to know what was right and what was wrong even when someone who you need to believe you and hear you....and are telling them the truth.
But the hero in this story was my mother and the courage and inner strength she summoned despite all odds to give me a chance that she never had with a giving that has no bounds and with no strings attached. It's the kind that only comes when called upon when you humble yourself enough to put someone else's needs in front of your own at a time when they cannot do this for themselves. This is the hallmark of character and the definition of a hero in the eyes of God even if my mother could never understand this or see it in herself. And in case you have any doubt after reading this.....I felt it pass too me even then, and though I too couldn't recognize it at the time, It is the reason that I can do this now for myself in finding the path to my heart and my ability to connect in the same way to my wife's heart as well.
Yes, you will always be ready for anything if you can just admit to yourself that you are wrong and are not always going to be good or right at anything you do in life. Even to the point that sometimes if you are angry, hurt and fearful.....you will do many things that you know you shouldn't do for that reason alone even knowing better. Hopefully, if you learn and remember these lessons and can admit the times you are wrong, you won't do them again, and hopefully this time you will take the opportunity you have and choose to do them for the right reasons.
If you cannot see this is true.......you will never be able to see the truth in anything....... including the same thing in other people....... and you will pay a high price for it in the end if you cannot find the path to your heart.
I think this story is just saying the same thing but twisted around a little differently:) lol
PS....and with a personal note...... a teary and happy ending:)
peace
Yep....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
>>>>
I started singing Karaoke while he was not home working late one day a week and when I separated from him he made a cutting remark about me being "the Queen of Karaoke". I started hitting the gym with my gfriend and getting home at 11 PM and he text me "less talk more walk". Later I asked what that meant and he told me that he was looking at me through the glass and described what I was wearing. Eerie.
>>>>>
See how predictable this is.? My H will belittle nearly everything that "takes me away from him." For the past ten years, after the kids grew up, H began insisting that I "get a job". So, started my own business....and it's been a smashing success. He hates that my job takes time away from him. lol....but he wanted me to work. But, not really. lol
My sister is a clinical therapist. I have learned so much from her. Seriously, the stories she tells are so eerily similar to what I've experienced. She just says, there are certain things that many of them do. Being a hypocrite is one, giving themselves freedoms that they won't allow for you, etc.
When my H filed for divorce, my sister told me..."don't worry, he needs YOU more than you need him." And she was right. Her words get me thru a lot.
Collecting 'little sisters'
Submitted by ChrisChris on
My father had a tendency to collect "little sisters" - great descriptive term btw - and the habit got worse as he aged. I was ALWAYS uncomfortable with it; he never seemed to understand what a weird vibe he threw-off by overly-sharing their many problems that he was "helping" them resolve. I think a lot of these young ladies were truly hurting and he probably did his best by them. I am also pretty sure he was a victim of some of these women's manipulations. In his increasing quest to be the hero, my dad could be so naive.
I know exactly what you mean!!
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
I'm so glad to read this post. I have the exact same problem with my husband. He is much too familiar with other women. I think it has to do with his lack of being able to read social cues and also the adrenaline of meeting new people and embarking on new activities. It definitely looks like addictive behavior and feels like an emotional affair. Oddly, in his case it doesn't stop with women. He has had several gay men interested in him in the past. My husband is definitely not gay, but somehow he sends out inappropriate signals that they pick up on. It is painful to see his enthusiasm for one person after another when he has absolutely no enthusiasm for me. I've been observing it for 21 years.
Hopeful Heart...you got it.
Submitted by notgonnalosemyself (not verified) on
It's so true. It does feel like an emotional affair. My husband bought a coworker a massage (because she was stressed) and body butter (because she ran out of lotion) and was always taking her to eat and talking to her after hours. Really? Always a justification but never ceding to his wife's wishes even if he couldn't make sense out of it. Yes, they can't see the dangers, are impulsive and don't think of the consequences. Me, well, I don't trust myself and that is a good thing to see your vulnerabilities. I never want to be overconfident and say "I will never do..." He bends over backwards for anyone and they get the awesome side of him. Our close friends and family however, have seen the other side and they know that no other woman could or would put up with the behavior. So all those ladies who call my husband "the complete package" are mistaken. This is the "grass is greener" syndrome for them since they need what I got when we were dating. Now that I have cried my eyes out and suffered, he can't really impress me since I am not the focus anymore and I have seen it all. Shame that they can't refocus on us and give us the same effort they give the "new project".He is an artist and do you think he ever used me as a model? Yet, all our other female friends grace my walls. People have even asked where my portrait is. I nagged about it until he did one of me and its tiny. That hurt. I love the comments I get from people that don't KNOW him "you are so lucky to have him" "you have a great husband there" and although some things are likeable about him, most things have been a challenge and painful and its through God's help, family and friends support and compassion that I have survived. I am working on not getting worked up about the situation anymore. He can speak so nicely to other women, give them words of wisdom and compliments and tell them he is there for them and loves them. Only I and God know what I have been through and if in some moment of weakness, he gives in to a woman that has fallen in love and he has missed the signs and has shrugged off my warnings as ridiculousness, then I wish that NEW girl all the best dealing with him. I will be free and in peace alone and she can carry the torch. I will have no problems finding my way alone or even with someone else (I will take better precautions next time of course). I want to expend less energy on things I can't control. Someone told me I don't wear green very well (envy) and I want to show my confidence from now on. :)
Wow! I never thought of it like this, but you're right!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
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I have the exact same problem with my husband. He is much too familiar with other women. I think it has to do with his lack of being able to read social cues and also the adrenaline of meeting new people and embarking on new activities.
<<<
I never understood why H would say bizarre stuff to female cashiers when we'd be purchasing things. H can be very funny, but with cashiers he'd tell really dumb jokes and other weird stuff. I would later voice my disapproval, but he didn't get it. Finally, I had to put my foot down. I told him, "you can be so funny, but you sound like a total idiot when talking to cashiers. Stop the dumb jokes. You sound like a total fool. Just keep your mouth shut unless they ask you a question and then give a simple answer."
I never thought that it was caused by some kind of anxiety of meeting someone new. But, it's true. The day I met H, he said a couple of odd things to me (which in hindsight should have been big red flags). They weren't horrible or insulting, they were just weird.
H has also done this weird thing with meeting new men, but it's different. With meeting new women, he's flirty but says dumb things. With men, he also doesn't read social cues. He'll also say dumb things but he's not flirty (H isn't the least bit gay). He'll pretend that he's "bad at math" or "bad at physics" so that the other person might say that he also is or that he is pretty good....and then H will "best him" by saying, "I'm just kidding, I have a PhD in math and physics." Then the person feels about a foot tall. After witnessing that a few times, I had to put my foot down and explain how insulting that is. The first few times he wouldn't listen to me, but after that, I had to "lay down the law." so to speak. I couldn't believe that he didn't understand how rude and off-putting that was. He thought it was some kind of joke. Again, totally inappropriate, but he was clueless. I had to "get thru to him," that he was making the other person feel stupid. It was strange but H didn't understand that (how could he not understand that???). But I think it's just part of the cluelessness.
I also think it's part of H not being raised well. His mom never paid attention to what he did or said, so he never got that kind of parental feedback that a child normally gets when he/she is being rude or inappropriate.
I was just reading an article about how very, very, very few French children are Dx'd with ADHD. The theory is that French children are parented differently than American and English children. When I read the differences, I had to agree. I will post a copy or at least the salient parts.
I had a French mother. My mom was on us like "white on rice." She constantly kept us "in check". We were not allowed to behave inappropriately. There were routines. We weren't allowed to eat/snack whenever. Meals were at set times. TV was strictly limited to an hour a day. Homework had to be done first. She always knew where we were and who we were with. We never got into any trouble at school. My mom and dad taught us a million things...how to cook, sew, embroider, do laundry, take care of babies, knit, crochet, fix and repair things, garden, change a tire, assemble something, change a light fixture, etc. When guests came to our home, we (the kids) had to "make an appearance," introduce ourselves, say a few pleasantries, listen quietly, sit still, etc.
H and I both come from large families, but he was parented very differently. HIs mom was clueless, never taught her kids anything, never paid attention to what they did (talked with their mouths full of food, terrible table manners, etc). H will tell you that he can't name even 5 things his parents taught him. How sad. In hindsight, H reflects that it was terrible that his mom never made them 'pay attention" to their grandparents when they visited. He said that his grandparents would come over, typically bringing something (donuts, cookies, etc), and he and his siblings would literally grab the items out of their hands, not say thank you, and then run back to the TV. Ugh. Raised by wolves, I think.
Over the years, I have had to "reparent" H, but doing so when he was well into adulthood was not nearly as effective as it would have been if it had happened during his formative years. those young years are the training years. The brain is still forming....that when good habits are formed...that's when they're drilled into you.
The point is that when children aren't taught/trained, then their anxiety levels rise when experiencing new people and new situations. They haven't been taught what to say and what to do.
Disrespect and justification
Submitted by Kansasry on
I think it might be a ADHD thing, though I wish I knew how to address these same issues with my spouse.
He also engages in disrespectful behavior to me and encourages others to feel free to do the same. He also will minimize, justify or become defensive regarding any behavior I express concern over. His broken record response: "You're crazy! I'm the perfect husband."
And I sort of think that has a lot to do with it. I know he felt he could never do anything right when he was a kid. Him mom abandoned him at 7 and told his dad she couldn't handle him and his dad ridiculed everything he ever did up to the day he died. I think once he was an adult he was able to convince himself that he isn't any of those negative things his parents told him his was and he is very careful to manicure a (not all true) persona to people he knows as the prefect guy, even at the expense of others.
My husband loves to flirt. He says he enjoys making the women feel good about themselves and it might be the only one they get. But he often crosses the line and it's not friendly flirting, it's highly sexual. While he climes and is adamant he'd never cross the line, he can not accept or understand that these women don't know that based on his behavior. I've seen the women cross the line but he thinks he can control it. He justifies.
I've notice when I verbalize any concern he is very defensive and insulted by my concern or unhappiness. I truly think it's because it attacks his ego which he has worked very hard to build as an adult, to compensate for his ADHD. It's sort of like attacking the core of who they are and telling them to stop something they need as much as air and water.
The question is, what do the spouse do when their need hurts us, right?
Kansasry, this is heartbreaking
Submitted by jennalemone on
"He minimizes and justifies." and "when I verbalize any concern he is very defensive and insulted by my concern or unhappiness."
These two lines of what you wrote are so important. He puts your anxiety or hurt out of his mind. He puts his welfare above your welfare. There is no effort put into the relationship/family bond/marriage. Like my dh, he wants you to put up and shut up.
With my dh, my hurt is of no concern to him and if I have a problem with something he does or says, it upsets him and he just wants me to not say anything to him unless it is jokey or flirty. There is no connection with him except on a very superficial level. I used to wonder if he had a soul. I keep trying to be soulmates and he keeps hiding and denying and deflecting. I am ashamed of myself for staying with him.
That sentence "my hurt is of
Submitted by dvance on
That sentence "my hurt is of no concern to him"--wow. My DH tells me often "I have to take care of myself first and if that hurts your feelings then too bad." Two years ago he was hospitalized for depression and being suicidal and I really think somewhere along the way he totally misinterpreted what all the therapists told him about taking care of himself. In every relationship-friendship, professional, marriage, anything--there is a balance. No one can be ON all the time, we all need help, but it ebbs and flows and there is very little of that thought process. Now, understand, DH does TONS of chores in my house--when he is home (not traveling for work) he gets up with the kids on the weekends and makes them big elaborate breakfasts and lets me sleep in, he does laundry, grocery shops--that is not what I mean exactly. I'm not explaining it well--he says he knows it is hard when he is gone so he wants to help by doing as much as possible on the weekends to make life easier for me. While I love that helps, his thought process is still on himself. Wow--that sounds so ungrateful and petty. Not what I mean. I'll think some more and get back to you all...
dvance
Superficial, yes!
Submitted by Kansasry on
It's sad to see I'm not the only one that feels this way. When we were in counseling I said that our relationship was superficial! We have no intimacy. I said this was the main reason why I don't trust that another woman won't come between us, I don't have anything special with him that they don't. They only difference is, I know the real him. If he left me for another woman (which he states there are a dozen just waiting for me to step aside) I don't think that relationship would last either. Somehow, this makes no sense to him. In his mind, he is perfect and I'm the problem. I can't be happy with anything. I'd be a fool to leave someone like him. no one would ever love you better than me...do you really think they believe that? Or is that just something to say to keep us in our place?
Don't be ashamed, you are not alone. I don't want to fail but how long do you allow this to keep going?