Came home from taking my son to his Dr appointment. H was waiting at home and asked where I had been. As most the non’s here will understand this, I had told him and reminded him of the apt several times (several times that day even). But of course he forgot so I explained again where I was.
I made dinner and clean up dinner. I picked up all his stuff he bread crumbs all over the house. I watered the garden. I sorted camping gear for the camping trip this weekend. Where was H? Sitting on the sofa with his face in the phone. He would get up to go outside to smoke but he had the phone with him. He wasn’t texting or talking. I finally finish with all my chores and sit down. I had a glass of wine and H had already drank half a 5th of whisky. I wanted to talk but his face was in his phone so I asked, “What are you so interested in?” He flips the phone over and told me he found his ex’s Instagram account and was looking at her pictures. He then showed me some of his favorites and reiterated just what a pretty girl she was. I wanted to scream but I was the stupid one and I asked and well, at least he was honest. A few days ago he had found her Pinterest account and saved pictures of her and then showed me and gushed about how pretty she was. I already had gotten upset and pointed out that maybe he should save pictures of his ex-wife to show his current wife but apparently that went over his head.
So, again H has managed to make me feel like sloppy seconds. H managed again to make me feel unloved and ugly. But if I say more than I already have then he gets defensive and angry and calls me crazy then goes to facebook to bitch about me and call me names and crazy…it’s the predictable cycle and so I kept my mouth shut and just sat there feeling like crap. But he wasn’t done yet.
He starts reading post from Facebook form the day that he thought was interesting or funny. He does this all the time. He is on Facebook all day and night but can’t talk to me. He thinks sharing his activities with his friends online with me is connecting with me! I closed my FB account a long time ago because I couldn’t take seeing his sexual flirtations on line and I couldn’t take witnessing the public bashing he liked to do of me with his friends. It was my way to separate myself from him and his friends and their ugliness. H made a promise to remove me completely from his FB account after his last very ugly bashing. I demanded that he not have Married on his status and all pictures of me were to be deleted and there was to be no more post about me, not even a mention or reference to me (good or bad) ever. Anyway he made some snide remark about me changing my name back to my maiden name on facebook instead of closing my account and then he could share cool things with me. Because apparently FB is the only way he can engage with people. I reminded him why I didn’t have a FB account. And he said “Don’t worry I’d never post anything about you, I wouldn’t want to be embarrassed.”
This morning, feeling pretty insecure and jealous of his feelings for his ex, I got curious and checked her Instagram account. I’ve never seen her in real life but I had a good idea of what she looks like and my husbands constant descriptions of how stunning she was/is. OK, she is pretty but I don’t think I’m less pretty than her. She still has an amazing figure and mine is ok, we are built differently but her build is what my husband loves. I’m too bottom heavy for his taste. But as I looked at her I noticed how well maintained she is. Haircut and colored to perfection. Nails done. Designer jeans. Waxing. Tanning. She is the perfect image of the women my husband still chases after.
Now compare me to her. We have very little money. Most of our money goes to the ex. I make 40 a year and he brings home about 30. We have nice cars and a nice home and that is where most of our income goes. He controls the finances and is always stressing about not having enough money. So, I cut and color my own hair. I never get my nails done. Never get a wax. I don’t own designer jeans. I buy almost all of my clothing from thrift stores to save money. I stopped working out because he hates it when I go to the gym (his ex had affairs with guys from her gym so it’s a sore spot). But I would love to be like her. I’d love to take care of myself like she does but that takes money.
And then I notice how happy she looks. Big glowing smiles. Pictures of her out on dates with her new husband. They take trips. They go out. They look like they love each other. My H and I have none of that. We have no pictures of us. He tells me I’m pretty but I’m not photogenic so we have no pictures. We don’t date because they all end in tears. We don’t travel because he never wants to go anywhere. And I know he doesn’t look at me like they do and I don’t think I look at him that way anymore.
I haven’t been happy in 2 years, the length of my marriage, and I’ve tried. I’ve tried to make my husband happy. I’ve tried to get him to show me he loves me. I’ve wanted him to feel loved and cherished. But I don’t think I’m ever going to be good enough for him. I don’t think he will ever be capable of being the man he was before we were married again for me. He is still that man but it’s for everyone else, not me. And I don’t want this. I’m no longer me. If I stay with him I’ll forget there is another me and I’ll never be the same. I’ll be his creation. And I wouldn’t want to know the person he is working to create. It took seeing how happy his ex looks to put it in perspective. He describes her as a monster (albeit an extremely hot one) but now I think she might have been because she was with him. If he treated her anything like he treats me, I can understand if she was a monster. You’d have to be a saint not to be.
I’ve clung to H’s words and promises. But he breaks his promises and there are no actions to support his words. He swears he loves me and someday I will see that and that nobody is ever going to love me like he does. When he says that I want to believe him and I stay because I tell myself “Today is the day he is going to show me he loves me for real.” But it never comes.
I no longer wear my wedding ring. (He threw his out 2 months ago) I stopped wearing it because it reminded me I live a lie every day. It reminds me of how my H would go on and on about his wedding day to his ex as we were planning our wedding. He described how stunning she was, took his breath away. He even described her wedding night attire and how hot it was. He even went so far as to tell me I should find something like that to wear. And this is how I know he had already started to create his monster. I wanted so badly for him to tell me those things about me, I’d do just about anything. So I did my best to find something that fit his request for our wedding. On our wedding day, he never told me he thought I looked pretty or even nice. He made no comment. Our wedding night he didn’t say one word about what I wore and I had to beg him to have sex, on our wedding night! Later that night, I went to the bathroom and cried. I cried on my wedding night. It should have been the happiest day in my life or at least one of the top 5, but I was heartbroken. I reflected on this memory this morning and noted that 2 years later nothing has changed. I’m still heartbroken. And I don’t want this.
Sorry for the long ramble. Not too many people understand how ADHD affects a marriage, this is the only places I’ve found that can.
Do this.....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Next time he starts talking about his ex, record him using your phone. AND...write down exactly what he said....
then, type up his words exactly as he said them. Then copy/paste the words again below. then in the below part, substitute YOUR EX in for every time he says HIS ex''s name.
For instance,
Wow...look at this picture of Stacey. She is drop dead gorgeous. Look at that skin. You can tell that she really takes care of herself. She is so toned and tan. She always looked amazing. Sex with her kept me panting for more. (blah blah blah).
Then copy paste that AGAIN with the following changes:
Wow...look at this picture of Bob. He is drop dead gorgeous. Look at that skin. You can tell that he really takes care of himself. He is so toned and tan. He always looked amazing. Sex with him kept me panting for more. (blah blah blah).
then hand your H a copy of the two "conversations" - one right after another....and ask him..
So, I have to listen to the above conversation drivel on a weekly basis. How would you like to listen to the below drivel conversation on a daily basis?
What will he say????
<<<
He controls the finances
<<<<
?? Why is that? Why should he control yours? And does ANY of your money go to the ex? If so, stop that
Seriously, he lacks the
Submitted by Kansasry on
Seriously, he lacks the empathy to be in someone else shoes. He wouldn't get it.
This is how I know why. I found nude pics on his phone and computer of a woman he worked with. They were sent to him while we were married. Latter I found some facebook messages where he was complaining about how crazy I was, a drunk and worthless. He added how hard he was working to get me help but its so hard to be the perfect husband when your wife is ill. She had great sympathy for him. They go back and forth and it became an emotional affair. He had loads of those with other women but she was the only one I knew he knew and had nude photos of. I had confronted him about it but he denied, defended and dismissed me every time i brought it up.
We got in our last blowout 2 months ago. He went to facebook and lied and defended himself as the perfect husband. He told the world he was getting a divorce and the insults ensued for the day. I was alerted to it and looked on his computer. (he forgot to lock it) I saw posts from that woman on his rant about me and she was ugly about what she had to say. This is a woman who sent a nude pic to a married man. Yeah. So, I went into blind rage and copied that nude pic on her page and told her off and tagged the H so it would be on his page.
That started a storm. On his page he deflected the reason why he had it. Is only concern was that he hoped the OW could forgive him. Her only crime was that she was there. (WTF?). So most of his scum bucket friends had his back but a few saw right through his BS and called him out. One woman said she would KILL her husband if he had that. And then she asked if it would bother him if I had nude pic of my guy friends. He responded that no, he wouldn't care as long as I wasn't F*&^ing them.
So, I grab a nasty pic from some random craigslist post and saved it to my phone and my mini. I told H I was having issues with the mini and asked him to look at it. He saw it. Didn't say anything but started looking into my email and my history. He found nothing. So he confronted me. I gave him the same response he gave me when I found her pic "It's not mine, it's a friends." He got pretty angry. I said what he had said, "I'm not F*(&ing him." He asked how would he know that based off that pic? I laughed and said, "exactly" That's what I ask you every time I find a pic like that or see your messages to other women.
He still has that photo of her. He still talks to her. It made no impact at all.
He wants to manage the finances. He claims his ex wiped him out. We have a joint account, his request. And yes, he needs my money to make the finances work. When we meet he didn't even own a car. Once i moved and got my new job, he went and bought a new car with a 500.00 payment. Never could have done it without me. I never worried about it, we're married. But after his last BS and his sudden hyper focus on paying off all his CC's I feel he is getting to a place to leave. He would leave me with nothing.
So, I opened a secret account and I'm funneling a little bit of money there. Just enough to pay for move in fees to a new place and I'm gone. I want to be happy. While I don't expect H to MAKE me happy, i don't expect him to MAKE me miserable either. I can't beat myself up for this. I just need to let him go.
Then, in the meantime......
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Then, in the meantime, set up a boundary.....
The boundary that you tell him is: You may no longer mention your exwife to me in any way. Anytime you mention her, then I will (leave for the rest of the day or whatever).
In the meantime, I would do whatever I could to get out of this marriage. It doesn't sound like you are financially tied or dependent on him, so you might as well free yourself of this burden.
I don't believe that someone can't get it thru their thick head that they're being a hypocrite. I do believe that they will "play dumb" or "act like you're the one with the problem", but I think it's an act. The reason I think so is this.... When I would point out H's hypocrisies, he would deny, twist, deflect, etc. However, when there was a 3rd party present (a therapist, one of our adult children, etc), suddenly he'd understand. lol...so when there's a witness, suddenly the light of truth comes out.
I kept seeing that sort of thing over and over again. Denial when it's just me, truth when there's a 3rd party present. hmmmmm.
Good Idea OW, But Be Prepared kansasry
Submitted by kellyj on
If you followed what I did with my wife in a similar way.....her response to me was "I hate you, I hate you, I hate your Fucking gut!!!" I'm saying it will be anger for sure so just be ready. Once that runa-away trains leaves the station....you'll be riding on it with him until it hits the bottom of the hill. Even if he does nothing in the moment....it will come I guarantee it. If you are going to do this...you need to have your ducks all lined up and ready for this because it will serve no purpose other than to make them angry(er) unless you have the follow through planned in advance. The follow through is that you want them to stop being disrespectful so you can live together in peace not to create a tit for tat scenario. That is what he will see this as unless you use it to get to the punch line and have one waiting for him once the wild horse stops bucking from exhaustion once you pull the trigger like this. Just say'in....be ready.
After looking back at what I did...it was the equivalent for my wife if I had pinned her to the floor and tied her down making her see or hear something she did not want to face. I'm sure the panic and feeling she was having was very much like what I just said and of course....I was the one causing her to feel this by simply saying what was true and forcing her to hear it anyway. I was damaging her as she said. And in reality, all I said to her really was that she was treating me like an abuser, acting just like her mother and disrespecting my boundaries and it was hurting my feelings when she did these things. That's it. And I did this in a caring way with loving anger. If you are acting out of revenge or retaliation and they sense that you are (and they will).....this will not work. It's not clean on your end. Keep it clean but don't try and play chess with a checker player either....show them how to play chess instead even if they don't want to:)
I think the bottom line for doing anything like this is to get them to see past the thing that they did (the specific example like you are talking about here with the nude photos) to the real problem not just the one instance in the moment. That's all they're willing to look at and they will always have some kind of rational to use for an excuse. The goal is to get them to see what's underneath the symptoms and the real source of the problem. If you can't attach this (the answer or solution) to these symptomatic anecdotal situations....they're not ever going to get it on their own. That's the point......it's denial.
J
Very true.
Submitted by Kansasry on
Very true.
The same issues have reoccurred from day one. At the start I would gently point out the action or behavior (stated as an observation, no judgment) and then I would explain how that made me feel. I was calm and loving. I expected a dialog. I expected him to be confused and ask questions about what he did/didn't do and dig deeper and maybe even explain or even make excuses. But what I got and still get every time is defensiveness, denial, deflection and redirect the issue back to me. It's my problem, I'm crazy and i need to fix it. He has no ownership.
My H always says "everything is my fault. i'm tiered of being blamed for everything." He's not. Even other people who have had major issues with his behavior/actions and won't even talk to him anymore (His children) he says the same thing. He didn't do wrong but he is blamed.
I've stated to him anytime I say "I feel..." I can see him physical lock up. From my view he is instantly ready to fight and defend, there will be no discussion if he is about to hear that he might being doing something he shouldn't. His best weapon is to lie and or redirect the issue back to me as my issue as he is perfect and can do no wrong.
I think he knows he has made huge mistakes in his past and he lost a lot due to his own actions and behaviors. He has not seen his children in 14 years. He last saw his baby when he was 3, sitting in a bathtub while he explained he needed to go away for awhile. He has told me he would like to live one day without those burdens in his head. I think this is why he will not accept or own anything he does now. Its his defense to deny.
And after being a broken record hoping he will see he is repeating the same behaviors that ended his marriage, I reach my boil point. I forget I'm not dealing with a normal and rational person and then I turn into someone I'm not. The OW totally had some ass whopping coming to her. But what I did out of hurt, embarrassment and fear isn't me. I'm turning into a monster. I can't forgive him or me for that but I'm the only one that can control me.
I can't see a future where we will have a break though anymore. Our life together will be one of me hurting at his hands and his adamant belief that I am the problem that needs to be changed or fixed. And part of that is correct. When I let that monster out and behave as he has trained me, I am just as much of the issue as he is.
Hugs!!
Submitted by on the edge on
His best weapon is to lie and or redirect the issue back to me as my issue as he is perfect and can do no wrong.
That sounds familiar, being blamed for everything while at the same time refusing to take responsibility for anything, even his inappropriate friendships and obsessions with other women.
Is he taking any meds or going to therapy?
Yes, you may have problems but until he realizes that he does too, he'll never change. I have a lot of respect for the ADD people who post here because they are working very hard to find ways around their ADD.
You sound like a very caring and giving person. But you can't fix him if he isn't willing to meet you halfway.
I Appreciate The Vote of Confidence OTE
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted to add something to what you said that I am now getting a strong feeling that is more true than not talking about all people I've met and know with ADD(H) including myself. When I first came to this forum....something just didn't fit and seem right from the sound of most of the stories I hear from you spouses that just wasn't adding up to how I saw myself and even some of my friends that I know that have ADD. Even my therapist has ADD to a point and I now suspect at least one of my sisters is undiagnosed (ADD vs ADHD) In every case myself included....none of this group share the same sort of behaviors which are consistent with so many of the stories I am hearing. One of my friends I remembered made a comment to me one time about one our other friends who we knew had ADHD since her was a child saying...." B can be a little oblivious and selfish at times, but I think that's because he's just not paying attention in those moments." I will always remember that because I think that was dead on accurate about our friend. Me too. But in reference to two of my friends who I now know have ADHD (one I've known since I was a kid)...they are both married have families and appear to have pretty good relationships and have married to the same women he entire time. The one friend that I was talking about is a really great guy and is excellent with his kids and very loving and compassionate to his wife although at times, I heard his wife will speak to him like "time to go B" but he as quickly complies and I never see a terse word or have heard of any real marital issues and has never acted in any way that would be described or compared any of the stories I've gotten so familiar with in this forum.
I guess what I'm trying to say here (including myself now) is that most of what I am hearing appear to be related to issues that extend well past ADHD/ADD (even if they are associated with ie: comorbid personality disorders or even in the category of it not completely disordered) that not everyone with ADHD ends up having....or even to the point of it being so mild that you could almost right these things off to being like most people at times when they are dealing with problems and not quite themselves at different periods but not as chronic and problematic as what I am hearing from most of you spouses who are currently here and the reason why?
I've also come to possibly another conclusion about why there are so few ADHD men who come here (why I'm such an anomaly?) here specifically. In my case.....I'm the one dealing with a person (my wife) who has some personality traits that are getting dangerously close to what I would call character issues without going off the deep end yet just as difficult to live with and problematic in getting her to see or change in the same as the stories I'm hearing here so often.
Bottom line .....almost all the issues most of ladies who come here appear to me more as predominantly Narcissism (the clinical definition to varying degrees) more than just ADHD or ADD to make that distinction. Just from my own understanding and experience from my past.....more sounding like the more aggressive type which is what I was so familiar with in my father which is a particularly difficult one to deal with for other people. In my case (or my friend I was referring to) my extending issues outside of my ADHD are more in the Neurotic category (over focused and anxious)...which has some Narcissist qualities looking from the outside like my friends comment suggested....but less to do with lack of empathy or being disconnected emotionally and kind of operating without any moral compass so to speak. Not all Narcissism is the same and too the point....when it becomes to the disorder level like my father for example.....it's a whole new ball game than just someone who is a little Narcissistic at times....saying the word used as a description not a certifiable clinical condition. It pretty much takes over that persons personality in some pretty extreme ways if the latter is what I'm trying to say and there is a distinct undeniable difference beyond just the word Narcissism.
Anyway......not so much as a defense but an observation from my experience with these things based on the things I just said. In a sense....I just went through this whole weeding out process myself because it was so confusing to hear so many of the stories hear for me that I was really second guessing myself to make sure? This is where I have no idea what the number are for people with ADHD that develop into these kinds of problem areas but my guess right now is that is probably not the majority of people with ADHD or ADD who end up like so many people here are dealing with. That's my guess for what it's worth but maybe useful for those who are trying to make this same kind of distinction to help them deal with their own situations where ADHD/ADD is just not really explaining or fitting into what you are up against and how to find better ways of managing for yourself?
It's not so important for me if you think or don't think I fit into this category myself only to say my T and I have gone through this pretty thoroughly but more to help you narrow down the same kind of things I had to in order to figure myself out and heal from the damage done by my father (the full blown Narc) I do understand if that is the case.
What you said.......But you can't fix him if he isn't willing to meet you halfway. Resonated with me deeply. I spent half my childhood ( and so did my mother in her marriage) thinking that my father would some day meet us halfway. It is so hard to get to that place in your own thinking when it finally sinks in for someone like this that it will never ever happen. Period. They are literally disconnected permanently like the wires inside their head are severed and it's a dead circuit in the empathy department to the point that it's completely missing. It's not just broken it's missing and they don't have the ability to meet you half way. It's not because they are bad or evil...they're just not repairable it seems and there doesn't seem much hope in fixing it after a certain age.
I do really understand what this is like for what it's worth only to say that there are things you can do to make sure you stay healthy and strong and it does not have to be damaging to you if you approach this with a different strategy for yourself to keep yourself immune from any further damage. It takes some courage and inner strength to deal with this but it can also make you a stronger person by doing it.
Best wishes
J
J
Comorbid issues
Submitted by on the edge on
I think you're right on the money thinking that many of the ADD people described here have other issues. My soon-to-be-ex has only been diagnosed with ADD but my therapist is convinced he has Borderline Personality Disorder and possibly Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I spend my free time reading this board and another one for BPD and find them equally helpful.
The best thing I've learned is that it's not me. I can't fix his problems, especially when he doesn't see any. I guess in a way I'm fixing what he thinks is the problem because we're divorcing and I'm moving out of the area. He doesn't realize that his problems will still be around until he starts being honest with his therapist. Maybe she'll realize after I'm out of his life and he has new people to blame things on that the problem is with him.
Anyway, I've never gotten the impression that you, JJ, have anything besides ADD and a tendency to write really long posts :)
Yes Indirectness Is a Specialty of Mine OTE ;) lol
Submitted by kellyj on
Still working on that! lol I do understand better where that comes from...the fear of saying the wrong thing! lol I was trained:) Needless to say, (they/NPD) are very convincing that you are the one with the disorder! lol I did pick up certain traits inevitably despite being pretty hyperventilate in my efforts not to be like either of my parents.
You might find this interesting (as I did). For fun I took an online test for BPD just to see what it came up with. The results had one category at the bottom of the scale where I scored that said.....predisposition just before unlikely at the very bottom. I can see the patterns myself from time to time but the mechanism is different. Se la vie:)
J
Boy...Your the Best Judge....
Submitted by kellyj on
and what is possible. I know this behavior too well to say that is can change only in my experience with someone who is so far gone (disconnected from there feelings) and just operating without any. What you said..I've stated to him anytime I say "I feel..." I can see him physical lock up. is kind of the clincher looking at it from my end. You see....I was raised by a man like this. I know your husband in a sense I've never even met him...but I know him almost better than anyone you could meet. In one respect....I have a lifetime of tools to deal with a person like this starting in childhood. You might say I have an unfair advantage in that regard and I'm so long past expecting anything from someone like this I'm sort of immune. In childhood they call that disassociation and it's pretty effective when you are child. It does serve as protection for your sanity but it is not effective later in life as I had to find out the hard way. Checking out is great as a temporary fix but you don't want to stay there. It's not good for you at all!! Effectively...you are shutting your feelings off just like your H and that's why your feel like you are not the person you use to be.
With me....I did this kind of in reverse. lol I had to learn to trust my feelings since they were out of commission off and on when I was around my father which I spent as little time as possible and he also traveled a lot so I managed to keep the damage at a minimum but not without sustaining any that's for sure. For me....things were more confusing than anything else but my feelings and connections remained intact but I just didn't always trust them. That's the damage it causes you when you shut down. Things become more unclear and confusing and it is difficult to make good decisions. If this is what it feels like for you then my guess what I just described is as close as an explanation I can give you if this helps you get your bearings.
I can't imagine what it would be like for a person not having any experience with this kind of thing and then having this happen to them. It would be horrible and I am completely sympathetic. It's damaging if you do not do something yourself to make sure to keep yourself intact and whole. You can reverse this for yourself since your own feelings are not at issue here...just protecting them is really what you need to be focusing on.
I will pass along one thing from my childhood growing up that I watched happen with my Mom in how she dealt with this. When she had just reached a point she had enough and "grew some balls" so to speak. Sorry that crass but true. My dad had no idea what to do with her when that happened. To simplify this to make if easy......think about a bully. Bullies don't like it when you fight back.....where's the fun in that? They will usually move off and not come back to try again.
I have another analogy that's actually a really good one....one I learned from scuba diving in the ocean where sharks might be in the area. I've actually dived with sharks before but not huge man killers. What I was taught if a shark comes snooping around is to take the strap off your tank and swing it around in front you while holding the neck (valve) in one hand and use your other hand to support the tank with the boot end (bottom) facing forward. Sharks like to taste first if they are going to eat something so they will usually circle around a come in for a first taste. If they do this....you thrust your tank square into their nose because it's made of cartilage and you can actually hurt them pretty badly by doing this.
But the real reason for doing this is not to hurt them. The reason is: First....the boot of a scuba tank is make of rubber and sharks sense (smell) with the tip of their nose and rubber is not on their diet so it tells them you are not food. The second reason to do this is because in a sharks world....they are top predator. If something fights back this doesn't register at all in their brains? Between the rubber boot and you fighting back...even a huge shark will usually move away and go else where out of confusion since you are not food and that's all they care about. Eating you is not personal....it's just what they do. If you're not food....they have no interest. Nothing personal..... they're just sharks looking for food.
I'm not making an exact comparison because that would be way oversimplifying this but I think the analogy is good one to understand more of the primitive subliminal thinking for someone who is completely operating without feelings. It's how I can wrap my head around this if this is any help for you? I'm jumping to a lot of assumptions and conclusions that I have no way to know since I have only my own experience to work from. I don't know anything about your H to know if he fits this at all. That's why I said you have to be the best judge and can't go off anything I'm saying.
With my wife for example...I see these things to a point but I also see her more like I was in my past more than anything....more confused and not trusting her feelings and some of the same behaviors I had in the past too. I understand her in this way and see her very different than my father for example. With him...there no no hope ever of connecting anything to his feelings since they were completely missing in action:(
J
J
Yes J, I have learned to shut
Submitted by Kansasry on
Yes J, I have learned to shut my feelings off. What I thought I was doing was managing my expectations. I thought if I didn't ask anything of him, if i didn't demand things from him that he would relax and not always be on the defense.
It worked out for him pretty well. No more fights and he was off doing as he pleased. He didn't have to make any efforts or change anything or consider if I had any needs. ADHD heaven! I made an effort to notice anything, no matter how small, he did that was positive and I was sure to praise him. I did lots of little sweet things for him, like put toothpaste on his tooth brush and make him treats he liked that no one else did.
This didn't stop him from doing or not doing things that would cause a fight, i just ignored it.
After 4 months of this, my resentment was at it's max. I had turned off my feelings and waited like an abandoned puppy for his owners love. And then I asked for one thing in 4 months and he just couldn't do it. It would mean someone else got to think something different than he did.
I do like the shark analogy. LOL.
I Was Getting That Impression ;)
Submitted by kellyj on
And if my shark analogy resonated with you, I might have a few things to offer you to think about that might help you? For you own peace of mind that is! lol
First...if your H is a shark then you have to think in terms of a different currency or means of exchange that they operate under. Instead of love...think in terms of respect. Love does not compute.....respect does. And yes....everything is in terms of value as means to exchange or border with including unfortunately you. I say that because it really is the mind set. You are more of something that he owns for his personal use or convenience. This sounds terrible but you need to remember that this is all they've got to work with. You can look at this as them trying to love you but they can't so respect for them is all they have to work with or to offer you. If you think about it.....you want love and he doesn't have any....and he wants respect and all you give him is love which, he appreciates because it strokes him and he likes that but can't reciprocate in return which on some level he understands which starts making him feel guilt which is completely unacceptable and that automatically gets turned into anger towards you of course.....in all ways that's how it works. The nice thing is you can always count on this...nothing is ambiguous and it's completely predictable. So the last thing you want is to shame him or try and make him feel guilty. Never do that if you want to get along!!!
My long standing analogy of my father was he was like fortune cookie machine that you put a quarter in and out comes your response inside a fortune cookie however with a catch. With the fortune that comes out at the bottom....a baseball comes firing out and hits you in the face. No matter where you stand trying to avoid the baseball....each time you plug the machine to get your fortune cookie and the baseball will find you even if you move to avoid it. smack!! in the face every time. ha ha So in this analogy....guilt or shame is the quarter and when you open up the cookie to read your fortune all it says is "you lose, better luck next time." ha ha
My point (lol)....is don't plug the machine with quarters. Use a different currency!! That's how predictable it is. Respect is the currency that will get you what you want from him as a means to get him to respect you back but you have to give it first in all cases and that's just the way it goes....fairness in this case has to be taken off the table. Just let it go for your own peace of mind if you don't want to get hit in the metaphorical face with the metaphorical baseball. lol
In reality and from a more compassionate perspective (thinking about my father).....he'd been so disrespected and used growing up that this was really what he wanted to have most.(the thing that was missing) If you don't feel love at all and that is kind of a foreign concept anyway....then respecting him was loving him. Thinking along those lines.....if you respected him he was very generous with his respect back for you as long as it was always on his terms. To the point of being extremely loyal and faithful to those who respected him and he returned that in copious amounts to anyone who operated under those terms. In business...this worked great and everyone respected my father in that world because of this. You could always count of him in that way and he was very responsible. At home this became a problem since....we weren't his employees and didn't operate under the same conditions. That's where all the conflict came from. Of course with me (not knowing anything about ADHD at the time)....he saw me as extremely disrespectful to him if I could not do exactly as I was told. It makes sense thinking about this taking what I said into consideration.
The problem for you is that this kind of makes you feel used yourself because you aren't your H's thing or his employee or servant even though....he doesn't really get this concept of course? It starts making you out to be a whore (in the metaphorical sense) and feel degraded if you have to see everything in terms of a barter or exchange where nothing is given freely without some kind of string attached to it.....but this is where you can stand back from it and see it for what it is. My compassionate view of my father I think is really accurate. If he had love to give he would have given it....his willingness and generosity with respect shows you that this would be the case if he had love to give. You do have to feel sorry for someone like this and that is why sympathy also works. Sympathy is the replacement for love just like respect. It all boils down to alternatives instead of what is missing but not without reciprocation on their part but it's all they've got to give.
There are some real plus side to being with a Narcissist like this too unless they are completely immoral. Saying a moral Narc like my father will share the wealth with you (the currency ) and you will bask in the glow of what they have to offer as long as you play by their rules ( that whore or bimbo things again ). But since they are all about protection for themselves.....they do offer you that same protection and more since they own you and protect anything they own...fiercely!!! These are the benefits but unfortunately, there is ALWAYS a cost involved. That how it works. If you can remove yourself from this crazy operating system emotionally and take pity on them (genuine pity and compassion) it will pay off in huge dividends as best they have to offer if they really care for you. Caring my not be love but again....taking care of you or caring for you is yet another replacement for real love. These are all things that you can do in way to see your place in this and not to become like your H. A way to save your own dignity and self respect by seeing past how this makes your feel if you can't see why you feel the way you do.
I think this was what my mother had to offer my father more than anything and why he cared for her and was never overtly abusive to her.....her great capacity for compassion and respect for the things he did do did get returned to her in the form of respect from him which is all he had to give. It's a messed up ass backward means or exchange and replacement for real love on his part but I could see hypothetically....if he did have the capacity for love and empathy....he would have been and extremely compassionate and loving man...if that makes sense? Hypothetically speaking base on all his other behaviors.
It doesn't replace real love for you but that doesn't mean you yourself have to lose your ability for love and compassion being with your H is all I am saying.
PS...almost forgot....this is why demanding respect for yourself works. Respect is the language that they understand so if can use this to your advantage (instead of demanding love....show him how he is disrespecting you and speak in those terms. If mutual respect is the means of exchange....you will be speaking his language and respect you for demanding to be respected. My father could not respect a person who allowed themselves to be disrespected but....he always responded to those who demanded the same respect from him that he would give under the same circumstances. That's how it worked.
J
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Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
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If you followed what I did with my wife in a similar way.....her response to me was "I hate you, I hate you, I hate your Fucking gut!!!" I'm saying it will be anger for sure so just be ready. Once that runa-away trains leaves the station....you'll be riding on it with him until it hits the bottom of the hill. Even if he does nothing in the moment....it will come I guarantee it.
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What did you do? It sounds like you just told her not to treat you badly.
I don't believe in "holding back" the truth simply because it "upsets them". Frankly, I think that's been the problem all along. H's family always "held back" because H let his anger control THEM. They kept their mouths shut, so no one was calling him on his bad behaviors.
I do call H on his bad behavior. Does he get angry? yes. Does he eventually learn from what I say? Yes, but it takes awhile. He'll deny for a while, but eventually he'll accept it. I can remember when I first told H that he suffers from depression. You'd have thought I told him he was an ax-murderer. He denied with such vengence. Now, he freely admits that he has depression. Same with alcoholism...he used to rage at the suggestion. Now, he readily admits it.
"Eating you is not personal..
Submitted by LyraHeartstrings on
"Eating you is not personal....it's just what they do. If you're not food....they have no interest. Nothing personal..... they're just sharks looking for food."
This kinda cracked me up because it reminded me so much of this Kids in the Hall sketch from the late 80's or early 90's about Skoora the Gentle Shark. The set up is there's a guy visiting this town and is at the local hotel and meets a sea captain who tells him the story of how he lost his bottom half to a shark. He and the rest of the locals were all missing various body parts because Skoora had attacked them all. The hotel keeper is missing a leg, a couple of college guys are each missing an arm and an eye and of course the captain with only half of his body. The visitor asks why they don't just kill the shark, and they all react with horror.
They ask him how he's missed the point. Skoora can't help it, it's his nature, he's a shark!
I don't know if I can link it up but here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMOtMWD63Q4
Thanks For That...I hadn't Seem That One :)
Submitted by kellyj on
Too funny! Here's my favorite sketch......"I Crush Your Head" This one busts me up every time. Thanks.
https://youtu.be/PM5_dgKDsrc
J