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Reading your story, if I am understanding you, I think I can relate.
He truly sounds a lot like what my husband used to be. He was dishonest about many things...and I honestly felt it was to avoid conflict. He hid things from me, didn't tell me things for the same reasons you list. (to avoid hurting/disappointing me). Same troubles with work..mostly because he lacked the drive to get things done and procrastinated horribly. My husband's favorite way of dealing was avoidance as well. I literally said MANY times "as long as I am nice to him, speak to him, then he thinks all is right with the world". He just never seemed to be able to grasp the severity of things...and everything that was wrong in the relationship was all my fault...to hear him tell it. This all changed when we both hit rock bottom and decided things had to change. We are in counseling and doing very well. I have learned to love and accept him 'just as he is' and he has gotten better control of his behaviors. He is taking medication too, but that is more for work related issues.
He probably doesn't lack good judgment or common sense, but the ability to control his thoughts and actions sometimes. Has he been officially diagnosed? Ever taken medication or been in counseling for it? Why do you think you are ADD?
I am almost POSITIVE I have ADHD. All my life I have had complications/issues focusing, have trouble with numbers and math, and procrastination. I fidget, have a hard time remembering things (also), had had trouble listening to people/focusing and have often felt 'stupid' or dumb for not catching/remembering simple things. I've had trouble with time (setting alarms ect), being organized and write a TON of notes I never use.
My biggest frustration (not sure if this is a woman thing) is that I am WILLING to ADMIT and ACCEPT that I need help and take steps to modify things. In general (though I have a LONG way to go) I have gotten much better about time (though I have times I slip backwards again), have tried to find ways to organize things in a way that works for me (even if it is a simple of sitting keys on a visible table), am working with a budget counselor to get finanaces in order and read up (joined a group in the past) on co-dependancy and allowing boundaries to be set.
With my fiance, he just avoids or lives in a land of 'delusion' and being almost 30 and having done it before (either due to my parents' error or my own) I can't AFFORD to hit rock bottom again!!! I don't want to be at a place of ephiphany in my own life and subsequently trying to shoot for change to have the man I will marry be a football field behind me.
He is VERY smart, has a degree, will be going to law school and is VERY articulate. He is polite. He is diplomatic. He is kind. He loves his family. He is supportive! These are great! His credit is pretty good (mine not so much due to my own personal failures) but he lacks the ablity to rightly divide.
There are times when if things are not spelled out for him he seems so confused as to what to do next. I.E. - You ask him to take the bag out the trash can. He'll do that but leave the back (with smelly garbage) beside the trash bin.... Or not replace the bag. If asked why he left the bag and didn't take it OUTSIDE he'll say 'well you just asked me to take out the bag so I did it'... To which I'd be left scratching my head!?! What the %$#@? Why does that make sense?
He is quick to point out that he 'thinks differently from most people' but doesn't have to wisdom (or IMO) common sense to try to figure out how most OTHER people thing to function effectively in this world. He'd be just as happy defending behavior that wouldn't make sense to most, inferring, that we should all get him.
Having dealt with a lot of the same issues has had an interesting effect on me. It has caused me to be MORE frustrated with him because I see/feel a repeat of my own errors. I don't want him to wake up AFTER he's lost me, or the house he is trying to buy, or a great job ect...
A lot of times I feel that if things aren't spelled out for him... He just doesn't get it. A dear 'mother of his' from his hometown described him as a sweet man with a heart of gold but who is very aloof.
The aloof tendency is only cute for the movie version of the damsel in distress! We are adults (both will be 30 in under 4 years) so we are not at a place where HUGE mistakes can only be fixed with an apology.
We can talk extensively about something on Tuesday night only for Wednesday night the same thing be repeated! He'll be like 'ohh I'm sorry... please just work with me'... It's been a year of this... The same habits/patterns for a YEAR. Different people... Different job... But he has a hard time facing himself and realizing that HE is his own worst enemy.
It is not that I can't deal with error... I just deal MUCH better with people (especially on an intimate level) who are honest with themselves, honest with others' and on the path to MODIFYING destructive behavior. When I see the same circle... The same circle and I've cut the circle open to make the lines a straight path, it is frustrating!
Will reply more later, but a lot of the time they DO just want to be accepted...even if we cannot understand them. The defensivness is in response to years of people feeling about him (quite frankly) like you do...no common sense, irritating, frustrating, lazy, and so on. I don't point this out because you have no right to feel frustrated, just playing devil's advocate for a second. I spent 6 years of my life loathing the behavior of my husband, so I feel your pain.
The example you give of him taking out the garbage..it is very likely that he DOES just not see that situation AT ALL the way you do. I can't describe how they process requests/tasks like this, there are some posts here where ADDers do describe it as a 1000 step process..where it would be as simple as pick it up, carry it out, put it in the can, replace the bag, and be done with it for 'normal' thinkers.
You don't really list anything specifically that seems like 'deal breaker' behaviors...am I missing something? What do you mean when you say he can't "rightly divide"?
I appreciate your honesty. And counseling must be working for you as after 6 years loathing your husband's behavior you now seem to 'get' how he thinks. I can only hope/pray that he has invested as much time, pain and anguish 'getting' YOU and giving you what you've been giving in the relationship. Not a tick for tack but a reciprocation which is a reasonable expectation in a healthy intimate relationship.
What is possibly the deal breaker is that this pattern of behavior causes me NOT to respect him as a man or my future husband. I don't trust him to be responsible or complete important tasks and feel that it is STRESSING ME OUT to an exhausting point running behind him to remind him of important things.
I fear when we have children he won't be able to be trusted with them... I.E. Will he forget our 5 year old at the bus stop leaving room for the UNTHINKABLE? Is he going to keep this job? Even today as I'm writing this post for HELP I've spoken with him and though he is on first 90 day probation at his job and has been pulled aside and talked to quietly about organization skills and keeping up with his work (meeting clients on time and not FORGETTING HE HAS them!!!) he still doesn't feel the urgency/danger of the situation. To him, bad day but it' will be fine! He is planning to take off time and let his superiors know at the last minute??? We've already talked about this!!!
Will I be held behind in my goals or dreams because I have to keep looking back to make sure he isn't left too far behind? If we start a goal together am I going to have to make it my LIFESTYLE to continuously (and I mean CONTINUOUSLY) remind him of the goal he initiated because halfway in he drops the ball?
What about the house we (or really he because his credit is good) we are looking to purchase? Do I just let this fall apart because he can't remember what dates he set with the agent or the finance company?
When does he get help? When does he admit fault or see that he has a problem enough to ACTUALLY get help? I told him a couple months ago that since I think we are both ADD that we should see a counselor to help ourselves and to help our relationship. His response? "Well I'll think about counseling when I've done enough of the stuff important to me... goals for my own life"... The %$#@ irony? He isn't REACHING the goals in his life in part due to this! LOL! ??????????
For me this is a little different. I get how those with ADD think... (Pointing to self!!!) But ADD or ADHD isn't an excuse to watch your life fall apart. It is a choice! Though I know the other components of diet, exercise and medication would help me to STICK WITH the changes/strides I've made... Falling on my ass and my commitment to truth ALONE (Mainly God) has caused drastic changes for me.
I just want to see him get to the point where he realizes how serious this is enough to be COMMITTED to change. Tangible change!
I don't want to be in an unfulfilled relationship the rest of my life... I don't want to have to run behind him like his mother the rest of his life and I don't want to be the one giving in the relationship and not get my needs fulfilled also. That is NOT a relationship! That is an unhealthy mess!!!
It is not my intention to make him feel low but I also don't believe that 90% of the world should adjust their thinking to 10% just because the 10% are (or feel) different.
To me, it is the 10% that should try to figure out why the 90% think the way they do... Not say 'well I'm just different' and leave it at that... Destruction lies in that path!
I think if I felt he realized the severity of how close we are to rock bottom (in our relationship) or that the possibility of things going REALLY bad (in both our worlds) is just as much a chance as them going really right... He would see it differently.
He doesn't have a clear danger trigger... This filters into boundaries as well (will go more into this at another time) so how am I to trust this will get better or change? How am I to know that as I am trying to move forward he is coming with me?
I miss the guy I THOUGHT I knew as a friend... The one whom I REALLY respected... and as a result of that respect started to love... Now? Broken glass all around... In a cold cold room.... At least for me...
It sounds like there is definitely a lot more to the story...and I see where you're going and understand. You have every right to be happy and have an equal partner. You are 100% justified in expecting him to see the affects of his ADD and to GET HELP. If he is in total denial, and is waiting for when the time is right for HIM, then sadly he might be in for a big surprise. The one thing I did want to point out is that although I said my husband didn't seen to 'get' how bad things were, in the end he did realize and I think your boyfriend is probably more aware than you think.
The best advice I can give you is to just be honest with him. Give him an ultimatum if you're ready for things to change. Be clear and concise, but keeping it simple, and let him know your concerns..all of them. Set up an appt for counseling and tell him to go with you or he can deal with the consequences of not going.
Reading your story, if I am
Submitted by SherriW13 on
Reading your story, if I am understanding you, I think I can relate.
He truly sounds a lot like what my husband used to be. He was dishonest about many things...and I honestly felt it was to avoid conflict. He hid things from me, didn't tell me things for the same reasons you list. (to avoid hurting/disappointing me). Same troubles with work..mostly because he lacked the drive to get things done and procrastinated horribly. My husband's favorite way of dealing was avoidance as well. I literally said MANY times "as long as I am nice to him, speak to him, then he thinks all is right with the world". He just never seemed to be able to grasp the severity of things...and everything that was wrong in the relationship was all my fault...to hear him tell it. This all changed when we both hit rock bottom and decided things had to change. We are in counseling and doing very well. I have learned to love and accept him 'just as he is' and he has gotten better control of his behaviors. He is taking medication too, but that is more for work related issues.
He probably doesn't lack good judgment or common sense, but the ability to control his thoughts and actions sometimes. Has he been officially diagnosed? Ever taken medication or been in counseling for it? Why do you think you are ADD?
SherriW, I am almost
Submitted by Debbihelp on
SherriW,
I am almost POSITIVE I have ADHD. All my life I have had complications/issues focusing, have trouble with numbers and math, and procrastination. I fidget, have a hard time remembering things (also), had had trouble listening to people/focusing and have often felt 'stupid' or dumb for not catching/remembering simple things. I've had trouble with time (setting alarms ect), being organized and write a TON of notes I never use.
My biggest frustration (not sure if this is a woman thing) is that I am WILLING to ADMIT and ACCEPT that I need help and take steps to modify things. In general (though I have a LONG way to go) I have gotten much better about time (though I have times I slip backwards again), have tried to find ways to organize things in a way that works for me (even if it is a simple of sitting keys on a visible table), am working with a budget counselor to get finanaces in order and read up (joined a group in the past) on co-dependancy and allowing boundaries to be set.
With my fiance, he just avoids or lives in a land of 'delusion' and being almost 30 and having done it before (either due to my parents' error or my own) I can't AFFORD to hit rock bottom again!!! I don't want to be at a place of ephiphany in my own life and subsequently trying to shoot for change to have the man I will marry be a football field behind me.
He is VERY smart, has a degree, will be going to law school and is VERY articulate. He is polite. He is diplomatic. He is kind. He loves his family. He is supportive! These are great! His credit is pretty good (mine not so much due to my own personal failures) but he lacks the ablity to rightly divide.
There are times when if things are not spelled out for him he seems so confused as to what to do next. I.E. - You ask him to take the bag out the trash can. He'll do that but leave the back (with smelly garbage) beside the trash bin.... Or not replace the bag. If asked why he left the bag and didn't take it OUTSIDE he'll say 'well you just asked me to take out the bag so I did it'... To which I'd be left scratching my head!?! What the %$#@? Why does that make sense?
He is quick to point out that he 'thinks differently from most people' but doesn't have to wisdom (or IMO) common sense to try to figure out how most OTHER people thing to function effectively in this world. He'd be just as happy defending behavior that wouldn't make sense to most, inferring, that we should all get him.
Having dealt with a lot of the same issues has had an interesting effect on me. It has caused me to be MORE frustrated with him because I see/feel a repeat of my own errors. I don't want him to wake up AFTER he's lost me, or the house he is trying to buy, or a great job ect...
A lot of times I feel that if things aren't spelled out for him... He just doesn't get it. A dear 'mother of his' from his hometown described him as a sweet man with a heart of gold but who is very aloof.
The aloof tendency is only cute for the movie version of the damsel in distress! We are adults (both will be 30 in under 4 years) so we are not at a place where HUGE mistakes can only be fixed with an apology.
We can talk extensively about something on Tuesday night only for Wednesday night the same thing be repeated! He'll be like 'ohh I'm sorry... please just work with me'... It's been a year of this... The same habits/patterns for a YEAR. Different people... Different job... But he has a hard time facing himself and realizing that HE is his own worst enemy.
It is not that I can't deal with error... I just deal MUCH better with people (especially on an intimate level) who are honest with themselves, honest with others' and on the path to MODIFYING destructive behavior. When I see the same circle... The same circle and I've cut the circle open to make the lines a straight path, it is frustrating!
Will reply more later, but a
Submitted by SherriW13 on
Will reply more later, but a lot of the time they DO just want to be accepted...even if we cannot understand them. The defensivness is in response to years of people feeling about him (quite frankly) like you do...no common sense, irritating, frustrating, lazy, and so on. I don't point this out because you have no right to feel frustrated, just playing devil's advocate for a second. I spent 6 years of my life loathing the behavior of my husband, so I feel your pain.
The example you give of him taking out the garbage..it is very likely that he DOES just not see that situation AT ALL the way you do. I can't describe how they process requests/tasks like this, there are some posts here where ADDers do describe it as a 1000 step process..where it would be as simple as pick it up, carry it out, put it in the can, replace the bag, and be done with it for 'normal' thinkers.
You don't really list anything specifically that seems like 'deal breaker' behaviors...am I missing something? What do you mean when you say he can't "rightly divide"?
Sherri, I appreciate your
Submitted by Debbihelp on
SherriW,
I appreciate your honesty. And counseling must be working for you as after 6 years loathing your husband's behavior you now seem to 'get' how he thinks. I can only hope/pray that he has invested as much time, pain and anguish 'getting' YOU and giving you what you've been giving in the relationship. Not a tick for tack but a reciprocation which is a reasonable expectation in a healthy intimate relationship.
What is possibly the deal breaker is that this pattern of behavior causes me NOT to respect him as a man or my future husband. I don't trust him to be responsible or complete important tasks and feel that it is STRESSING ME OUT to an exhausting point running behind him to remind him of important things.
I fear when we have children he won't be able to be trusted with them... I.E. Will he forget our 5 year old at the bus stop leaving room for the UNTHINKABLE? Is he going to keep this job? Even today as I'm writing this post for HELP I've spoken with him and though he is on first 90 day probation at his job and has been pulled aside and talked to quietly about organization skills and keeping up with his work (meeting clients on time and not FORGETTING HE HAS them!!!) he still doesn't feel the urgency/danger of the situation. To him, bad day but it' will be fine! He is planning to take off time and let his superiors know at the last minute??? We've already talked about this!!!
Will I be held behind in my goals or dreams because I have to keep looking back to make sure he isn't left too far behind? If we start a goal together am I going to have to make it my LIFESTYLE to continuously (and I mean CONTINUOUSLY) remind him of the goal he initiated because halfway in he drops the ball?
What about the house we (or really he because his credit is good) we are looking to purchase? Do I just let this fall apart because he can't remember what dates he set with the agent or the finance company?
When does he get help? When does he admit fault or see that he has a problem enough to ACTUALLY get help? I told him a couple months ago that since I think we are both ADD that we should see a counselor to help ourselves and to help our relationship. His response? "Well I'll think about counseling when I've done enough of the stuff important to me... goals for my own life"... The %$#@ irony? He isn't REACHING the goals in his life in part due to this! LOL! ??????????
For me this is a little different. I get how those with ADD think... (Pointing to self!!!) But ADD or ADHD isn't an excuse to watch your life fall apart. It is a choice! Though I know the other components of diet, exercise and medication would help me to STICK WITH the changes/strides I've made... Falling on my ass and my commitment to truth ALONE (Mainly God) has caused drastic changes for me.
I just want to see him get to the point where he realizes how serious this is enough to be COMMITTED to change. Tangible change!
I don't want to be in an unfulfilled relationship the rest of my life... I don't want to have to run behind him like his mother the rest of his life and I don't want to be the one giving in the relationship and not get my needs fulfilled also. That is NOT a relationship! That is an unhealthy mess!!!
It is not my intention to
Submitted by Debbihelp on
It is not my intention to make him feel low but I also don't believe that 90% of the world should adjust their thinking to 10% just because the 10% are (or feel) different.
To me, it is the 10% that should try to figure out why the 90% think the way they do... Not say 'well I'm just different' and leave it at that... Destruction lies in that path!
I think if I felt he realized the severity of how close we are to rock bottom (in our relationship) or that the possibility of things going REALLY bad (in both our worlds) is just as much a chance as them going really right... He would see it differently.
He doesn't have a clear danger trigger... This filters into boundaries as well (will go more into this at another time) so how am I to trust this will get better or change? How am I to know that as I am trying to move forward he is coming with me?
I miss the guy I THOUGHT I knew as a friend... The one whom I REALLY respected... and as a result of that respect started to love... Now? Broken glass all around... In a cold cold room.... At least for me...
It sounds like there is
Submitted by SherriW13 on
It sounds like there is definitely a lot more to the story...and I see where you're going and understand. You have every right to be happy and have an equal partner. You are 100% justified in expecting him to see the affects of his ADD and to GET HELP. If he is in total denial, and is waiting for when the time is right for HIM, then sadly he might be in for a big surprise. The one thing I did want to point out is that although I said my husband didn't seen to 'get' how bad things were, in the end he did realize and I think your boyfriend is probably more aware than you think.
The best advice I can give you is to just be honest with him. Give him an ultimatum if you're ready for things to change. Be clear and concise, but keeping it simple, and let him know your concerns..all of them. Set up an appt for counseling and tell him to go with you or he can deal with the consequences of not going.