We have come to a point (40 years of marriage) where we cannot talk to each other any more. I can barely look at him anymore. I look at him and see all the times he ignored me and hurt my feelings and manipulated me...maybe it was all unintentional but it still affects a person to be so un-valued and demeaned. It is said we should NOT take other people's actions or even words personally. I tried to do that on a daily basis for 40 years. You know what happens when you stuff your real feelings and think you are strong enough to rationalize in neglectful, hurtful situations? One day you wake up and feel that you have never been loved or appreciated. And they (those people who feel entitled to only positive feelings) feel like they have done a great job...( to which you were the catalyst and contributor). One day you wake up and realize you have just been an extention of their wants and needs and YOU have not lived a life of integrity or joy yourself. You have been pretending things are GOOD ENOUGH. One day you realize that you don't even know WHAT you want or need because all you ever wanted since you had your own family was that your family be healthy, functional and loved. Then, when it is all over, you access your SELF. You did good by them. Pitched in and conversed the best you could with what you know how to do. Learned how to do things better so you ALL could have a nice life. WHY do you now NOT feel good about your SELF?
I realize now that I have been his fool. Just his tool. He has manipulated me all these years with empty promises and taking advantage. He knew my vulnerabilities because I was always open with him about my true thoughts and feelings. He used me to look good to the outside world....like things were normal about him. Nice clean, organized house, good children, nice wife. But HE was living an independent life. He would enjoy the comforts and stability of home when home was pleasant and things were taken care of. But if things were difficult or rocky or there was something to work through or converse or decide....he was overwhelmed and retreated to diversions so that HE did not have to FEEL the difficult feelings that come with ordinary life. He preferred to give his attention to things that were FUN, funny, happy and pleasure. I have been a single mom with one big oaf that came to the family when it was time to enjoy and play. But was missing in action when things needed to be sorted out and attended to....even money issues. He was not been able to TALK about money or spending. Not able? Or not willing - so he could independently spend and keep? I don't know since he does not talk.
He told me I am not fun enough and that happiness (my happiness in particularly) should come from the inside. He said I should work on my self. He said I worry too much....that is OUR problem...that I worry. This after 40 years of my over-functioning for the both of us.....I am not fun enough. I know what that means. Someone or some others in his life (with which he has no responsibilities or expectation) is more fun. Either that or ... he is a depressed recluse who prefers drinking beer and doing crossword puzzles and listening to the radio than to being a contributing partner in a family structure.
What to do with the resentment?
Submitted by jennalemone on
My dh believes that a personality is the most important quality in a person. Jokes and being gregarious and smiling do not pay the bills, rear the children to be responsible adults, offer a safe, functional, haven for loved ones. Personality is not a substitute for care and love. It is nothing. It is just a show to try to make people think you like them. Every conversation between us is a game to him. Offense/defense...games of war. I used to NOT be a fighting kind of girl....feminine they called it then. Now I am sorry I did not know I should have been fighting for my life against the person I thought was on my side.
All Things to Considered Ladies
Submitted by kellyj on
I hope you can hear me when I say I do know what you are saying.....all of you. I know you're not hearing this from the right source, but that's not to mean that I can't offer you some food for thought.....genuinely speaking. I've been there twice and what's worse than going through what you are doing now is not doing something at all.
All things considered...you do have your own lives to think about and you're not dead yet. I can't speak about finances, children and everything to consider here....but, I can say that the resentment, anger and regret does go away once you're not where you are anymore. It really does once you find a better way to live whatever that is. It's not even reasonable not to consider everything including the main question in...how will I make it on my own if that is really the best answer. But the tendency to hold onto you have without any guarantees is to tell yourself that giving up what little you have in the way of quality of life is better than what you don't know? I know this all too well. I'm not advocating or making recommendations here but, my heart goes out to anyone in this position and I want to tell you that if all you have is being miserable....you are not doing your spouse, kids and yourself any favors. Is it the path of least resistance? No. But you already know what that is like since that's what you have now. You won't know until you try is very little help in giving advise and a better quality life will require a lot of effort and work to get there but....it's the one time where the effort you put into it will pay off directly to you in time well spent and any rewards you will earn from it. Isn't that the problem now in your current situation already? It can only get better from there, you know? Only you know all the pieces to this puzzle and I avoided doing what you are doing more out of the fear of the unknown and not having to go through a major change than anything else........sometimes, you do need to cut your losses and stop beating a dead horse? For me....it only was better after I did. I'm far better off now than I was before without question.
I will say only one thing to add to this here which directly relates to my current situation with my wife. We both have been there before so we both know the score so to speak. The decision not to go back to what we had before we were together was an easy one to make for both of us. Once you are on the other side, thing do become much clearer I think.
What I wanted to say was this: my wife and I have both came to a place almost simultaneously where we said "no....this isn't going to work." That much was really easy to come to for both of us. Literally...the next day after we both said we didn't want to be together....we both said "wait......I want to be with you but I don't want to live this way." Once we did that......it was really clear what we needed to do at that point. The question wasn't about not being married at all....it was about not doing it or living in a way we both did not want. People live in many different ways that are a compromise between the two and appear to make this work if they both agree to it...saying, sometimes there are more options than you think if you really get down to what it is you want and want you cannot live with. Everything else then becomes looking at all the ways to get there to get there and choosing the best one that everyone agrees with (taking all things into consideration and that you can't please everyone in every situations . Kind of like that song by Ricky Nelson? )
A friend of mine who is an investment banker summed this up for me when I asked him how to choose an investment strategy ( not being an expert thinking he would sit me down and spend the next hour explaining the market to me.) All he said was " look.... just lay all of your cards out on the table, and pick the pile that has the most money in it at the end of the day." I thought that was very easy way to understand . I'm not implying using money as your criteria either....but you can apply this thinking to it when it becomes too difficult to see the forest from the trees at times like this.
This thinking has helped me in times like this which is the only reason I barged in here in the hope that it might help? That's really all I wanted to say....excuse me for saying anything here. You know how we are about getting easily confused. lol
J
J. What was your catalyst?
Submitted by jennalemone on
J. What was the thing/perspective/catalyst/crisis/person that finally was the "kick in the butt" that got you to get out of your muck? My own pain doesn't seem like enough to make me take action. I just sit here resentful but not moving. WTH? Maybe you already shared this, but I have not read everything on this forum,
Getting Divorced!! lol jennalemone
Submitted by kellyj on
That'll wake you up in a hurry, especially when your wife runs off with another guy! LOL!! This happened to me when I was in my early thirties and only after a few years of marriage. I don't even like to refer to that as a marriage because it really wasn't. Things weren't right from the get go...and like you when you were young at first. I just didn't have the where-for-all to know any better at the time. My criteria for a spouse was let's say.....a pretty short list. (not just sex if that's the inference) But it was one of them for sure. The other things had to do with doing the same activities together which again.....less important than all the other things that should have been on the list and weren't. lol That was the first time. My second marriage was pretty successful at first...but it too seemed to fall in line with many of the other stories here on the forum for those of us who have ADHD but there was no cheating or any real overt kinds of horror stories to a long with that. We eventually just parted ways because neither one of us were happy ( after almost 15 years together) but...I did the same things as you did and hung on way too long even though the hand writing was still on the wall long before that. I'd say it was dead after 10 years. My family too wer/are pretty religious based fundamentally speaking so I did have that as my criteria for not getting divorced which was probably the only reason I didn't choose to in the fist place. My ex was the one who made the decision first but this time I agreed as sad and difficult as this was for me to do. We parted on good terms and I still hear from her occasionally.
But...my experience the first time was devastating and the effect it had on was exactly what you are describing now. To a much lesser degree after my second marriage but not without going through the same exact process. That's why I am so confident in telling you that this is normal. Even if you are not even physically divorcing your H....your still going through the same kind of death and remorse about your choices. The thing I mentioned about having a dream is really significant too. What I realized for sure in my second time around was the feeling that all your dreams just vanish and your left feeling without any. I think this is normal too when you finally wake up and see things in a way....for the first time. I can imagine that for you...this whole thing is probably worse in that respect due to the length of time involved but....long or short, it's still the same process and the effect it has on you. I actually read that most for most people....roughly a year is required to get through this. It's interesting how in the Hebrew culture how widows/widower's are allowed about this much time to grieve and then they are expected to get back out there and function again. People haven't changed much since much in 3,000 years. lol
Anyway...yes, we all come here for different reasons and it has been really helpful for me to read about other peoples experiences as a way to learn for myself. If you haven't noticed.....I didn't come here to vent or look for consolation ( too much lol) That's not why I'm here...... I'm here to break the record for the longest in consecutive posts and I think I'm winning! lol
J
I don't have comfort to offer
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I don't have comfort to offer, only commiseration.
Rosered, I know.
Submitted by jennalemone on
Many of us are in the same boat and we are reluctant to jump ship because we have been sailing along in rationalizing, working and denial. Now we get to see just how adrift we are. And feel alone without the work and denial we have used to function. I hear you Rosered. I understand. I am sorry we are going through such a lonely, disappointing time at this time in our lives when we want to be looking forward to some peace of mind and rest.
so true...
Submitted by CosmicJoke on
Jennalemone, yes, yes...my heart goes out to you...I'm living my own version of this nightmare...
I understand your pain so well
Submitted by add on
To Jennalemone and all the others: I understand! I have tried to limit reading these blogs because in order to move on you need to limit some of the negative messages going into our heads all the time, but today I read your post Jennalemone and had to log in to respond. Everything you expressed was my life too. Husband walked out after 25 yrs because it was just too difficult to deal with a child with ADD and depression and a marriage requires communication which he was unable to provide (oh, how all the signs were there if only I had known ADD was playing a part in the devastation) and then there was the woman he hooked up with from work who was, I guess, smiling all the time (this was not the first time he had cheated either). As you said, they thrive on FUN and anything else is the other persons fault. Five years later I STILL struggle everyday with the last almost 30 years. It is torture!! Unless you've lived it you have no idea! All I have to say to those reading this and not getting what you need and deserve in a relationship please do not let that many years go by. Listen to your instincts. Something is wrong and it will not change! You will someday regret it if you don't.
I appreciate all of these experiences you`ve shared
Submitted by ICanSeeClearlyNow on
I am now five years into a marriage that sounds exactly like the one you`re describing. Husband only wanting fun, happy times, telling me I`m negative when I want to discuss real issues. I appreciate being able to read these experiences you and the other ladies have been brave enough to share. It`s kind of like that question they ask, ``If you could give your younger self some advice, what would you say?`` I`m that younger self and will hopefully benefit from all you`ve shared. I`m already planning an ultimatum for when our kids are old enough for me to handle to my own (not that I`m getting much help now, but I have a bad back and need someone as a back up in case I have a flare up because the little one still needs to be lifted a lot now), because you have all shown me that you deserve better...I deserve better too. I may not have realized that on my own because I am a lot like many of you...wanting to keep the peace, make sure the family is healthy and intact. You are helping me (and many others) with your insights and I hope that you realize how special your sincerity is and that you still have a lot of good to offer in the years to come...maybe helping other women deal with difficult relationships.
How are you doing today, Jennalemone?
Submitted by CosmicJoke on
Hi Jennalemone,
I can't stop thinking about your post. How are you feeling now? This is a good place for us to vent, and what you wrote was so clear-eyed...but the self-blame saddens me. I have many, many days I feel like your post. But given how much you've had to juggle, how misunderstood this illness is, and how much you've done for your family, I know we are not at fault for working to survive, day by day, as best we can.
military wife
Submitted by tiredwife on
I have been marriage to my adhd husband for 36 years. Twenty three of those years,he served in the navy. Once he became a civilian our marriage fail apart. I 've only realized within the past few years what the problem . Well, needless to say, I am ready to end my marriage. With 3 children, 2 in counseling, and the other who needs to go as well..Me, tired, crazy, and broke. I have tried to gain energy to file for a divorce,but I am too tired. For me, I am moving out of our home and moving to a different state that I love. My spouse agrees with me. Oh yeah, he wants out of the marriage as well. Having been a stay a home wife and mother, I am "walking away" from all the drama.
This is not love.
Submitted by Resigned2B on
Thirty one years, six kids, two with ADHD. I've failed them all. This is not love. This is not who I hoped I would be by age 60 but it's not this. This is not the wife, mother, or daughter of God I have tried so hard to be. There is nothing more I can do.
If I lie very, very, still, maybe God will take me tonight and give my husband and adult children the chance to find superstar they've always dreamed of. The one they never found in me.
If I can just lie still enough...
rough adhd day at my house, too
Submitted by CosmicJoke on
Not much to say except I feel your pain; hope we both get some rest tonight, Resigned...
You will be OK Resigned2B
Submitted by jennalemone on
Hi. I read your post and understand the disappointment and frustration you feel. This morning I heard a GREAT message....it hit home and comforted me somehow. Maybe this line of thought will speak to you too. It is about leading and following in a good way.
Good way: Follow your own truth and light. Strongly follow your good, positive spiritual beliefs. Follow good mentors, models, values, good friends. Lead by example and by BEING a good model and true to yourself with strength.
Bad way: Don't push out of fear and desparation. Don't be driven yourself by your own fears. Don't be driven to over-work, over-worry or be over-responsible. Don't drive yourself til you are sick. We don't have to live "keeping one step ahead" of disaster.
So how do we do this? I have now the challenge to look up and see the possibilities and the gifts.
I get to lead and follow and stop pushing and driving myself and my environment. I am sick of driving myself with my worry and work. I MUST change MY focus.
A good leader is on a good path...just following where the strong heart shines. A bad leader is driven by fear. I get to look in a new direction.....UP!
Sacrifice and self respect
Submitted by jennalemone on
I just finished reading a book by the title, "The Sacrificial Mother". Half the book describes EXACTLY what I have been doing all these years. What I was taught how to be - "feminine" by culture, family, institutions... and "hard working" by the Bible's virtuous woman passages. The book says that 2/3 of women in my generation who were mothers are this same "too sacrificial" and the men don't really respect us for it. They expect it from us but don't respect it......so much for "feminine". The book is EYE OPENING as far as how MOST mothers feel at the end of motherhood where women did more than half the work and get paid less than the men they serve (even though they had the education and talents to do just as well. The Good Ole Boy network kept many of us "feminine" in our places.....drained of our own identity and strength.....Velveteen Rabbits. But the Velveteen Rabbit was fiction and wistful and happy ending...sort of. Not so for the women who have sacrificed too much. Because we have given away our own person and though we thought we would be loved and respected and feel good about our giving and loving and caring, it is not so in many cases. Especially when we are partnered with someone whose personality is so much larger than our own....we get lost. Our needs and values get lost.... and we don't respect ourselves and feel that we started out to be "strong and silent - taking it on the chin"....we now view ourselves as weak-willed and reticent. People who have compromised ourselves in order to survive....today's WORST quality in human beings, it seems.
The book says we must be self-ists.....(Yuk, what a concept that does not appeal to me). It says we must have dreams and balance.. We tried that but something (attitudes and bosses and women's magazines) kept us "in our place" serving the family structure - serving anyone who needed us. A mother's day card or a Thank You does not seem to fill a lonely, drained mother if we don't feel we are worthy of respecting our own selves....our own needs and dreams.
I''m afraid the words "bitch", "nag", "whore", kept me in my place just as much as anything. I worked hard at not being any of those things. Now at the end it seems those adjectives are not as terrible to be as the adjectives i get to hand on myself....."weak and meek".
Yes, YES!!! jennalemone
Submitted by kellyj on
Your getting it!! That's the story.....I''m afraid the words "bitch", "nag", "whore", kept me in my place just as much as anything...... (where did these attachments come from in the first place?) But the Velveteen Rabbit was..... fiction(delusional).......... and wistful and happy ending...sort of. Not so for the women who have sacrificed too much. Because we have given away our own person and though we thought we would be loved and respected and feel good about our giving and loving and caring, it is not so in many cases. ..... We tried that but something (atitutudes and bosses and women's magazines) kept us "in our place" serving the family structure - serving anyone who needed us. (bullshit, bullshit, bullshit!!!! it's all bullshit!!!) A mother's day card or a Thank You ( Hallmark Greeting Cards sort of manufactured Mother's Day...did you know that? MORE BULLSHIT!!!the world of illusion..not the sentiment behind it as long as it's real) does not seem to fill a lonely, drained mother if we don't feel we are worthy of respecting our own selves....our own needs and dreams. And you wonder why? Whose dreams are those?....your parents? Vanity Fair? Reality TV (The Kardasian's...please!!) Hallmark?.....more bullshit on top of more bullshit!!!
And there's the male version of this too if you stop long enough to think about it.....and women pretty much, universally don't respect this one either....because it's BULLSHIT TOO!! It's ALL BULLSHIT!!
Get your shit together girl! And get that shit out of your head! You're on your way and I'm so happy to see that you are. You're on your way to a better life!! Your not dead yet...... Good Job!!!
J
Respect and judgment
Submitted by jennalemone on
J. Thanks for the support. Your adamant BULLSHIT made me laugh. I get what you are saying and remember that you also went through a similar transforming growth. I still somewhat carry around a childhood naivete, following any authority around who cared to put themselves above me.....arrested development. My counselor said, even so, I am ahead of MOST women growing past this idea of the inferior stature role expected in a "good" woman.
How do you see the male version of this? I might guess that you are referring to the words "loser, bum, jerk" that some men work hard to NOT have attached to themselves. My dh is immune to what others think....lucky him. He calls himself an imp with somewhat prideful boasting as if being an imp when someone else carries the load is smart of him. It seems to be working for him (because of ME letting it work (working) for him) He seems to have NO shame or guilt - entitled even. Yet I carry more than my share of shame and guilt too. Yes, this is what I get to work on. I feel so stupid....my counselor said that once I accepted reality I would feel really bad for a while. She was right. She is like this wise owl for me. The sage grandmother I never had.
I was once a campus rebel at a liberal college....yet after marriage I sunk into this willing servitude that denigrated me. I think it was my beliefs of the time that I was being "punished" for getting pregnant before marriage and I had to take my lumps. Parents in those days turned their backs on pregnant unmarried daughters because of the shame. Isn't that an antiquated belief? I hope so.
Male Version Jennalemmone...
Submitted by kellyj on
It took me a while to think about a good example (also realized I went right by your question...better late than never:) Anyhoo......the movie "Pleasantville". If you haven't seen it, I won't try and retell it but.....the town before "color" was added....everything was very "pleasant" but it wasn't real. The male version of this as I was intending it wasn't so much a referring to the things you said, more about just plugging yourself into a role that you were handed and then not deviating from it....like being in some kind of a play where your lines and parts are already predetermined for you and you just fit in if you can. If you can't....it's a problem. If you can...well......I still see this as a problem too. The movie does a pretty good job of making this point and the hard line men or stereotypical "male" in the movie leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion.
The scene where William H Macey comes home and is shocked because his dinner isn't sitting on the table waiting for him was what came to mind. His wife is gone and his house is cold and all he kept saying was "where's my dinner?" That's more along the lines of what I was thinking of.....we both grew up during this time ( approx) and even then (for me)......something didn't seem right about it? I think this stereotype was already beginning to be antiquated in many respects even at that time but......it was still the one that I knew and all the thinking that gets handed to you along with it......your lines of the story.
PS.....they could have really played this up by adding "Woman....where's my dinner?" I yell this when I come home sometimes as a joke which was what made me think about this .......and yes, my wife does gets it as I intended as a joke ...which makes it even more amusing is.... I do all the cooking and grocery shopping in our house. I like to cook and I do clean the kitchen afterwards....49% of the time. Now if I could do this with the rest of the house...........:)
J
:)
Submitted by jennalemone on
I will watch Pleasantville as soon as I can. Sounds interesting.
Sacrifice...
Submitted by Resigned2B on
Oh my dear jennalemone,
I haven't been on this site in a long time. I have 32+ of experience being married to ADHD and giving birth to two sons who suffer from it as well. Your familiar words and feelings prompted me to login. I'd like to offer some kind of 'hope' for enduring all of this but I'm fresh out. I'd like to tell you all that it gets 'better' but it doesn't.
Like J said, 'you're not dead yet' - though I feel sure there are weeks and months that you wish you were. The only thing that can really change is how you 'perceive' your situation. Your value or worth isn't dependent on the ADHDers in your life (or anyone else). Nor will it ever likely be validated by a sudden realization by them of your patience and long-suffering.
Talk is cheap and hallmark cards are even cheaper. And I would know; I have a whole stack full! Interesting enough, the cards say the same things, make the same promises, year after year after year. I think perhaps the most brutal issue is the secret suffering that goes on inside the new experience of being involved within this surprise world of ADHD. Few EVER see it through the eyes of the nonADHDer. Therefore, there are few, if any, condolences - let alone empathy.
Here's my suggestion if you are committed to staying. Do NOT take meds to cope with ANYONE else's illness. Protect yourself financially so that in the event that his world blows up - almost inevitable - your own world will not. I recommend keeping a journal. Don't write ONE negative experience in this (particular) journal. DO record every treasured, funny, or tender moment; even if they are small or few and far between. Put a time and date on each entry. If you have children put those happy times in this same journal.
When life feels overwhelming, and it will, through your tears you need to reach for this journal. It will remind you why you've stayed, why you fell in love with him, and why your life is important. This is good counsel for everyone but never as important for those of us who choose to stay. Our true value can only be reflected in the mirror God holds in His hand. When we get our self-worth any other place, regardless of how close we are to them, it will ALWAYS be skewed. Much like circus mirrors can't reflect our actual image neither can those around us. It is ONLY when we see our reflection through our creator that we will see an accurate representation of who we are; daughters or sons of our Heavenly Father.
Best wishes. :)
Positives
Submitted by jennalemone on
Thanks, Resigned2B.
I like the idea of a positive journal to take out and remember with gratitude all the positives in our lives. Even photos posted of good times to remind us of the good in our lives. Here are two more.... 1. Have a song with a cadence in your mind. All seems better with some background music to call your own. Liken it to exercising with music or without. Getting in the grove of just walking and thinking with music makes things flow easier. 2. Put difficult situations or people into a cartoon picture in your mind. This way it is simpler to stop taking things personanally/emotionally. I bet there are more things to do to stop our emotions from taking hold on our well-being. I see many of us are nearing the end of our career/productive times of life. We struggled and worked and scheduled ourselves into oblivion and now are trying to cope with the time to think and reflect and are not liking some things that we put up with.
Thanks for writing. I needed a lift today (and some attention it seems). Now I am off to walk outdoors.....another thing to do with negative thoughts..exercise them away.
Jennalemone
Submitted by Resigned2B on
Dear Jenna,
I don't get on here often and I can see how long ago your post was written. I'm so glad that I was able to say anything that helped you in any way. Much of my life is spent regretting a lot of the decisions that I've made for myself. It was nice to see that,, even if just for a moment,, my words meant anything to anyone. I hope things are going well for you now.
:))
I'm Glad You Took That the Right Way
Submitted by kellyj on
And your therapist is right......when all of this finally sinks in, you won't feel that great for a while. Hang tough during that time too....it will change and only be better. I can promise you that. But better will be a different kind of better than you know now......it's the kind of better when you grow up and responsibility doesn't feel like a burden any more...it's just what is....neither good or bad.....just indifferent. Indifferent feels funny at first (like a bad thing) but it's really not. But It just feels funny at first. I think that's what your T is saying too. I should know....I went through it myself and it still feels funny at times. There are some things that you have to let go of and say good bye too but.....they will be replaced with something better. Until the better things come along to replace the ones you lost.....it will be sad and depressing at times but that too will go away.
The better things come when you realize that you have choices.....lots of them! The world is your pallet and you can be the artist of your own canvas and you get to paint your won picture and make it any way you want it to be. So...you don't like it? Paint a new one and another one after that. It won't pay your bills but you will feel a lot better even when the bills aren't paid. ( nothing to aspire to here...just checking lol) But, you won't feel like a victim to your emotions or your husband because you can choose how you feel and separate yourself from everyone else no matter how they feel about you because it won't matter any more. Instead of needing things to be Okay.....you can choose to have things or not at your own time whenever you choose, but you will be Okay if you don't get them too. it won't matter anymore and it won't affect you either way...good or bad.
I found the thing that I really missed at first were the "highs" and the intense joy and elation or excitement I would get when I got something I thought I needed badly....like winning the lottery as an example. I don't miss it because....with those highs came with the lows too and I certainly don't miss those at all! It's an easy compromise to make and one you will get use to sooner than you think.
You will also find that single most powerful word in the English vocabulary will be your best friend once you discover it's power.....the word "NO".
You'll see......I'm just really happy for you right now! Just hang tough for the time being and ride this part through. Be good to yourself and do things that are good for you and start practicing the word "NO" if people want you to do things that aren't good for you. And you don't even have to be a "bitch" when you say it either because you won't need to when you can see things clearly and know what you want. That feels good too!
Self love is not being selfish.....it will only make you more selfless in the end and that's never a bad thing:)
PS.....my oldest sister is you're age and I've tried until I'm blue in the face to get her to see this (my other older sister too) Unfortunately....it's not my place to get her or anyone else to see these things....but I am very glad to see this happening for you. I couldn't wish any greater gift to anyone but, it's the only one that no one else can actually give to you because your the only one who can give this to yourself:) You H included here:)
J
A Future Conversation With My Wife....Jennalemone
Submitted by kellyj on
I thought I would share something here with you that you might think about too....If you were to ask me what I thought the biggest issue that my wife has with me....honestly? I'd say that she doesn't like to lead or be a leader....in fact, she hates it because it scares her. I just think she doesn't know how in reality but she just hasn't realized this yet. We're getting to that part but I'm waiting for the right time.
Specifically though.....in relation to my ADHD symptoms. She's just better at those things than I am, but I'm better at a whole lot of things that she has never even dreamed of doing before. I'm pretty good at being my own leader but I have no problem in following too......in the past, to my own detriment without knowing any better. I was way too trusting and naive too in an unhealthy way.
Where we run into trouble is when I need her to lead and she's left leaderless....lol In reality, I'm a very reluctant leader except when it comes to myself (not so much in a selfish way.....more, that I lead by example without actually saying anything and just expect others to follow after me) which in my past....worked sometimes and not others without understanding the reasons why? I never had a problem if I was put into that role as long as I know what I'm doing ( the things I'm good at )....but how the heck are you supposed to lead at things you are bad at doing? It kind of makes sense for the one who's really good at something to take the lead in that case and then switch over when it comes time for the other person to take charge at the things that they do better than you......I'm definitely a team player and I think at times, my wife struggles with this concept out of insecurity.
Until recently.....I was doing the thing I always did.....start out down the road and yell back at my wife to come along. This did not work!!! I see the error in my ways! lol
Anyway....yes....I will be having this conversation with her at the appropriate time even though, I think she's beginning to see this herself now and it's possible I won't need to. Thinking....I still will need to say it eventually if she continues to balk every time I need her to take charge of something and she starts to get upset with me especially concerning the ADHD parts. I still hear it in her language that she's waiting (unconsciously) for something to fix me in these areas so she won't be put into a position of having to be the leader in things that I just simply suck at. She resists the responsibility because it scares her to be in that role or position even though.....it would makes the best sense in certain specific areas. I know already that if I get sick or am struggling with something...she starts to get uptight and irritable. I see this pretty clearly now even if she doesn't.
A work in progress, but I think we're getting there. I'm pretty stubborn if you haven't guessed already. lol
J
I read this post and realize
Submitted by Resentful on
I read this post and realize that this is my life. My husband also struggles with some kind of issue, there are days I am sure it is ADHD and other days when I think the therapist I am seeing is right and he is nothing other than a true narcissist. On the good days, when I want to try and understand him, I contribute his lack of responsibility, self centeredness and complete lack of empathy to ADHD, however, despite given him articles to look at he refuses to acknowledge he has any kind of problems and throws insults at me at which point I believe he is a narcissist or maybe a combination of both. These types of individuals should not be allowed to have relationships with others as they leave a path of destruction wherever they go. I am so tierd of hearing their brain is wired differently, they can't help it, it's not their fault. If they refuse to take responsibility for their behaviour and leave a spouse depressed and living a life of pure hell, they do not deserve our sympathy. People will read this post and think I am harsh but where do these indivdiuals get off destroying and hurting others with no thought to any of it. For those who say, I have a choice, I know I do and despite all of my efforts to save my marriage for the sake of our family and the kids, I can finally say I am done and will be getting a divorce knowing I did everything I could and he did absolutely nothing. I know people will disagree with this as well however I know I did not ask for much, just that he recognized at times how hard he was to live with and some appreciation. You can't continue to do ALL the work and get nothing back before it breaks you down and turns you into a different person. For all those considering entering into a relationship with someone who has ADHD and refuses to acknowledge it you should RUN away as far as you can or you will be living a live of nothing but pure hell and misery.
Wow this was very powerful
Submitted by Resentful on
Wow this was very powerful and describes my life. I am so sick to death of hearing how they can’t help it and that we should empathize with their situation, why don’t those with ADHD think about us... I get they can’t so maybe their should be a warning sign to those who go near them...:DANGER, STAY AWAY, I cause severe pain and suffering. I’m done with my marriage, done with him, but the pain he has caused me and my family is irreversibile. There are days I too which I had ADHD so that I could behave badly and hurt others with no care for anyone other than myself.
Resentful...
Submitted by Resigned2B on
I agree completely!
: /
Co-morbidities, not ADHD
Submitted by Amarie on
Having worked with adhd clients, grown up in a family full of adhd and having adhd myself, I suspect a lot of the behaviour that gets excused as 'adhd' is in fact due to other comorbidities.
There is a huge range of behaviours among people I've known with adhd that tend to get bundled under that label and excused the second a diagnosis is received.
For example, anger issues. I never lash out at people due to frustration, despite getting incredibly stressed out at times. I was taught very early on that treating people badly would be punished. Other people were not my personal verbal punching bags, regardless of how bad life was going. So I quickly stopped and learned other coping mechanisms. My cousin wasn't punished for the same things and still acts out and throws tantrums today. She learned that people would fix her problems or give her what she wanted in order to calm her down if she made a big enough fuss and is now a horrible person to spend any extended time with.
The same goes for organisation/memory issues. I knew I could never rely on my brain to remember things. Even basic stuff like brushing my teeth or washing my hair. I was constantly in trouble for forgetting or losing things as a kid. But I wasn't allowed to use adhd as an excuse. I was punished exactly the same as other kids who forgot things. Yes, it sucked. But I was forced to find coping mechanisms that I rely on today. I wasn't allowed to just fail.
In comparison, my aunt and uncle constantly forgave my cousin for those things and/or she didn't receive the same strict punishments that I did. As an adult she constantly forgets work things, events, people's birthdays, and either blames other people for not reminding her as if they are her parents or just brushes it off as not important if it doesn't affect her directly. She refuses to learn other techniques and instead just expects the world to deal with it. She has developed very narcissistic traits alongside the adhd that on their own cause problems.
She is failing at life because of how arrogant, spoilt and unaccountable her parents taught her to be. We both have the same adhd disorder and find the same things difficult. But we deal with those challenges very differently. I hated my parents/teachers growing up, but now I'm very grateful that I was made to develop coping strategies. She continues to shout, manipulate, blame everyone else and wonders why her relationships and jobs end up so toxic.
I'm just using the two of us as an example, but there is a similar pattern among all of my relatives/friends/colleagues/clients with adhd. The ones who are considered 'toxic because of adhd' have generally developed comorbidities that cause those issues. The adhd itself isn't really the problem.
If your husband has anger issues, don't just assume it's the adhd and all men with adhd are like that (same goes for women). There are people out there who don't take out their stress on others and won't treat you badly.
Agree and disagree
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I agree completely that being able to develop coping mechanisms early in life can be very advantageous, though my observation is that many coping mechanisms that people develop, such as lying and covering up and escaping from overwhelming situations, don't serve them as well as those which you have been able to utilize. And bravo to you for finding healthy coping strategies!
You lose me completely (and break the posting rules) when you generalize to the entire population with ADHD that they struggle because their parents didn't treat them sternly/harshly enough.
I've worked with plenty of people, particularly men with ADHD, who found that the harshness of their parent's expectations for them as an undiagnosed (or even diagnosed) ADHD person resulted in an almost bottomless well of shame ("I was never good enough" and "my father just thought I was a loser") resulted in very deep shame that has haunted them well into adulthood. Their EF issues, emotional dysregulation, social issues, school issues and general immaturity meant for some, at least, that no matter how much they wanted to be able to perform better they simply struggled to do so.
That's a very different thing from being spoiled - we had in our household, for example, a strict saying "tantrums don't work, come find me when you're ready to talk.' But we also had a lot of empathy for the struggles folks faced and tried to accommodate them as best we could.
Environmental factors - particularly how your parents treat you and what you learn about attachment and emotional connection - play a big role in how people grow into adults. But it's not about being strict enough. There is much more biology involved, as well as environmental trauma, that contribute to emotional dysregulation than you are suggesting here. And it is unclear whether it is chicken or egg, as well. Your family members may well have more severe cases of ADHD than you did, as might the people who you work with (hence why you are needing to work with them). They might have needed more structure (but how much?) or they might have co-existing conditions, such as anxiety or processing issues that lead to a faster emotional overwhelm than you yourself experience(d).
Furthermore, there is a body of research and thought that suggests that the best way to handle kids with ADHD is to understand that they are not in control of their emotions and provide extra space and time for them to learn to self-regulate. Whether or not this is what you are determining was 'not good enough' in the parents you are critiquing is unclear here, but telling a child who is emotionally immature (most with ADHD lag their peers by about 3 years in EF) to just control him or herself is usually not a successful strategy.
So...just pushing back.
Commercial from an ADHD partner (I hope it helps!)
Submitted by gingernut on
I have ADHD and partner does not, and I know for myself, I catch myself not paying him enough attention either due to being highly distracted or burnt out without intentionally avoiding him. For example, I see I have a text from him and think "oh I'll reply a bit later, if I venture off task and get distracted in a back and forth conversation I'll never get my work done". Myself and fellow ADHDs, are very out of sight out of mind people. If I put my phone down and don't see the text I forget he exists despite loving him very much. Four hours I send an apology "I got distracted text". He knows that's not uncommon with me and that it doesn't mean I don't value him, I just have brain with 5 different voices trying to get me to regulate my focus in multiple places at once, leading to burnout and depressive episodes from being angry at myself for not being able to manage my time, start and complete tasks etc. like a neurotypical person.
Big feelings like conversing through difficult and roky situations are more difficult to deal with for neurodivergent people to process as we feel things so intensely so it's important to approach these subjects when you have no distractions, e.g. calm environment, after kids are asleep etc.
People with ADHD are easily over stimulated (hence the inability to manage finances, chores etc.) because our minds are racing a million miles a minute, we are easily distracted which can make starting a task overwhelming and difficult to complete due to boredom due to a lack of dopamine in the brain.
We are novelty seekers at heart, which may be where the "your not fun anymore" thing is coming from because he doesn't understand how overworked you've been to maintain a comfortable family dynamic.
He may not realize this as ADHD and autistic people struggle to read people's emotions, we can be highly empathetic to someone in need of comfort but not be able to fully out ourselves in the other person's shoes to understand why. I'm not trying to make excuses for your spouse, just offering what I hope will be some reassurance and a perspective of someone who is also ADHD with a neurotypical partner.
Using you to look good to the outside world with a nice clean house maybe is his way of hiding the shame of being unable to follow through with those tasks himself or admitting that managing finances as an adult is also bringing him feelings of shame.
Try not to blame each other for how you are feeling, he needs to know that you have been over-functionig in this relationship and maybe setting reminders for certain small manageable tasks for him could help or doing house chores together. I do this with my friends and partner, we call it "body-doubling", I get so much more admin done with someone to hold me accountable than if I'm left alone to sort through my emails.
He probably does still love you from what I gather from this post but has built up so much shame in his inability manage life tasks and emotions that come with it that he's shut down to avoid conflict/ upsetting you.
Open conversations without blaming or judgment, using "I feel" statements.can help you understand each other better.
It's hard to give advice when I don't know you personally but I hope this helps a little and know that you have a supportive network on this website on your side.
Remember to take time for yourself!! The dishes can wait a little! Xx
The dishes always wait "a little"
Submitted by swampyankee on
I had to laugh at this last line...yeah, the dishes can wait a little. They can, and do, (and did, just last night!) wait all the way up until the next time you have to make dinner. At which point dinner has to "wait a little" too while you take an unexpected detour into cleaning the pots you need. That's the non-ADHDer's life, right there! It's really hard to find the time for oneself when the time gets sucked up by your partner. Over-functioning is one thing, but basic chores are just basic functioning. And if no one else does them and they eventually have to be done....well....that's why we're all here, right?