What do they say.....only a fool represent themselves in a court of law? That's what happened this morning and this is my conclusion. I'm a fool to engage my wife at all when she opens with....I want to talk. Bullshit! You want to debate in legal court with you being the prosecuting attorney and me being the defendant. "Nice shoot'in soldier but two can play at that game". (This is an informative vent on how not to talk to your spouse unless you want to piss them off......first objection.....BADGERING THE WITNESS!!
I jjamieson APPEAR now on Sunday 5/31/2015 in the case of my wife and I because I'm pissed off when she says she wants to talk and violates all the rules of two people speaking with each other and instead...
wants to "give me her mind and just be heard." WTF...is this an editorial or an opinion? Or is it Journalism 101....just the facts? What happened to the 3 part essay you know: introduction, body and summary. Where's the summary? Where's the conclusion? Are you talking at me like a legal argument or debate...or are you talking to me like I'm a person? A legal debate is an open ended argument to the jury and the judge makes the decision. Where's the jury? Where's the judge? Where's the fucking court room???? I thought you just wanted to talk? I am clearly the defendant in this case but had not idea where I was......silly me. Today I saw it while it was happening and decided in all fairness to me, as my own council to OBJECT on the following grounds:
Ambiguous, confusing, misleading, vague, unintelligible: the question is not clear and precise enough for the witness to properly answer.
Arguing the law: counsel is instructing the jury on the law.
Argumentative: the question makes an argument rather than asking a question.
Asked and answered: when the same attorney continues to ask the same question and they have already received an answer. Usually seen after direct, but not always.
Asks the jury to prejudge the evidence: the jury cannot promise to vote a certain way, even if certain facts are proved.
Asking a question which is not related to an intelligent exercise of a peremptory challenge or challenge for cause: if opposing counsel asks such a question during voir dire (i.e. the jury selection process.)
Assumes facts not in evidence: the question assumes something as true for which no evidence has been shown.
Badgering: counsel is antagonizing the witness in order to provoke a response, either by asking questions without giving the witness an opportunity to answer or by openly mocking the witness.
Best evidence rule: requires that the original source of evidence is required, if available; for example, rather than asking a witness about the contents of a document, the actual document should be entered into evidence. Full original document should be introduced into evidence instead of a copy, but judges often allow copies if there is no dispute about authenticity. Some documents are exempt by hearsay rules of evidence.[2]
Beyond the scope: A question asked during cross-examination has to be within the scope of direct, and so on.
Calls for a conclusion: the question asks for an opinion rather than facts.
Calls for speculation: the question asks the witness to guess the answer rather than to rely on known facts.
Compound question: multiple questions asked together.
Hearsay: the witness does not know the answer personally but heard it from another. However, there are several exceptions to the rule against hearsay in most legal systems.[2]
Incompetent: the witness is not qualified to answer the question.
Inflammatory: the question is intended to cause prejudice.
Leading question (Direct examination only): the question suggests the answer to the witness. Leading questions are permitted if the attorney conducting the examination has received permission to treat the witness as a hostile witness. Leading questions are also permitted on cross-examination, as witnesses called by the opposing party are presumed hostile.
Narrative: the question asks the witness to relate a story rather than state specific facts.
Privilege: the witness may be protected by law from answering the question.
Irrelevant or immaterial: the question is not about the issues in the trial.
Misstates evidence / misquotes witness / improper characterization of evidence: this objection is often overruled, but can be used to signal a problem to witness, judge and jury.[3]
Counsel is testifying: this objection is sometimes used when counsel is “leading” or “argumentative” or “assumes facts not in evidence.”
Proper reasons for objecting to material evidence include:
Lack of foundation: the evidence lacks testimony as to its authenticity or source.
Incomplete: opposing party only introducing part of the writing (conversation/act/declaration), taken out of context. Under the evidence rule providing for completeness, other party can move to introduce additional parts.[4] If any documents presented for the review, the judge and other party entitled to a complete copy, not a partial copy, of the document. When a witness is presented with a surprise document, he should be able to take time to study it, before he can answer any questions.
Best evidence rule or hearsay evidence: requires that the original source of evidence is required, if available. However, some documents are self-authenticating under Rule 902, such as (1) domestic public documents under seal, (2) domestic public documents not under seal, but bearing a signature of a public officer, (3) foreign public documents, (4) certified copies of public records, (5) official publications, (6) newspapers and periodicals, (7) trade inscriptions and the like, (8) acknowledged documents (i.e. by a notary public), (9) commercial paper and related documents, (10) presumptions under Acts of Congress, (11) certified domestic records of regularly conducted activity, (12) certified foreign records of regularly conducted activity.[2]
More prejudicial than probative: Under Federal Rule of Evidence 403, a judge has the discretion to exclude evidence if "its probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of the issues, or misleading the jury."
all the above CHECK
Proper reasons for objecting to a witness's answer include:
Non-responsive: the witness's response constitutes an answer to a question other than the one that was asked, or no answer at all CHECK
Nothing pending: the witness continues to speak on matters irrelevant to the question. CHECK
SUSTAINED......witness is required to give a response and refuses and is currently in self imposed contempt of court until the judge has time to think about it.
Conclusion? as at the end of every Perry Mason re-run I ever watched.....in the last minutes of the show the defendant (in this case my wife since I got up to speed here) would break down an emotional cry and say "Don't you understand....I had to do it!!!!"
Court is in recess until further notice. Thanks for hearing me while I vented lol
J
The Jury is IN
Submitted by kellyj on
in slang that means I confronted my wife (not with this legal stuff ) in this case and told her my opinion. Her immediate response to me was that she knew what her legal rights were. How convenient? That's all I needed to hear. I see how she thinks...this is clear. Now what to do? It was "the THING" that wasn't being said. Good "thing" I could see it? I really dislike her even if I love her. If you understand this then you understand me. Both can be true and that's all that counts on my end and it is good to know. It's also good to know the rules if you are playing a game. I felt as much....why was I feeling so competitive? Why was I feeling so dismissed? Why was I feeling so many things that she couldn't say? This is why. Who's going to say this? I do think she has some chemical imbalance related to alcohol in her past or FAS. Maybe both. I can have compassion for her up to a point but I don't trust how she thinks....this has always been the case with no accounting or explanation for it. Her judgment and reasoning are compromised and that's all I needed to know? It really is on the level of a child in this area and I can't see much else to explain it even if she can't but I did recognize enough to tell me she is not working on all cylinders and has diminished capacity in this way. I don't know what else to say but I feel badly for her and glad that i'm not the same.
loll
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Been there.
When H says, "we need to talk," then that means a one way lecture where he does all the venting, accusing, yelling, raging, irrational statements, etc....and I'm allowed to say little or nothing. If I try to defend myself, he'll say, "I'm not done yet," or "you're lying," or "stop interrupting," ....so most of the time now, I just grab my purse and leave.
These session's usually just rob us of our peace;)
Submitted by c ur self on
Any time a spouse want's to "Talk" to their spouse about their actions it usually doesn't go so well; at least in my experience...If the truth of what was actually going to take place during one of these sessions was spoken before it started; the instigator of the session should say something like...I'm fixing to go on a monolog concerning things I don't like about the way you live life, and I want you to set there and hear everything I say and don't open your mouth until I get done....And when I get done it's over...LOL. That way no one gets upset because no one gets caught off guard...LOL....You can even set a timer for like 15 minutes....Then the party who is on the receiving end of the monolog know's all they have to do is listen quietly for 15 minutes...That's the least we can do for our beautiful mates, right;)?? This is something I usually come up with about 30 minutes after all the ugly and disrespectful stuff's been said...
What is the secret of not ever having any controversy or arguments between us??
How about this, will this work?....As soon as we wake up every morning....Ask ourself one question....What do I want from my spouse? Then immediately answer and say NOTHING!
If we forget, at any point during the day or night and our mind starts leading us towards a desire to beckon them to perform a service of any kind....Hope we catch ourselves in time, before the disappointment and monolog starts....
This way every act of love has to be offered.....If it's never offered? Well, you can't offer what you don't have!
Yep C I'm With You
Submitted by kellyj on
My response to OW applies to you too if I'm hearing what you are saying and the reasons why? I do like you answer as ways to manage around this situation....I'm with you my friend. I don't like to compete unless both people are enjoying it together in the spirit of competition for fun in a game or sports. Personally in these situations with my wife....I do not enjoy this and get nothing from it.
This what a therapist is for and I cannot get my wife to see myself by myself. If you cannot accept (first) that you are not always going to get what you want.....your life will be just one big competition and battle going into any situation. Needs vs wants. I want makes a pretty poor argument in a negotiation:)
If anything on my part of this (my failure ) is projecting my fear of her doing this with me which sets me up to be competitive as you witnessed when you were asking me earlier about "what makes a person think like this?" I just answered your question to OW. My failure is allowing this to set me up in the first place out of my own fear of it which only makes my wife do this more and we both end up pushing each other away.
J
feels like a game show
Submitted by ChrisChris on
I wish we could give a thumbs-up or a 'like' to posts. This whole feeling of being unnecessarily set-up for competition is so raw. I get it.
Been There, (I'm) Done (with) That
Submitted by kellyj on
Not anymore. It's really obvious after a while what they are doing....especially how you feel when they are done. My wife will say to everyone how direct she is or says she suffers with "soft skills" when talking to people.....I think she is still confused in what these things mean?
Being direct is stating as clearly as you can...what your intentions are at the beginning of what you are saying to someone and then getting there in a way where the other person can understand and doing it in respect to the other person for the sole purpose other the other persons understanding and once you've done this....giving the other person a chance to respond. Respond vs react.
I think what I just said is really the corner stone of communication......in respect to the other person. My wife is aware of the problems this causes her in general (soft skills as she calls them) but still is unsure of why? She is working on the symptoms and I do see her trying ....but when it comes to being able to say what she wants, that part never gets missed by me. The part that is missing is the part where the other person gets a chance to say what they want because the answer could be NO and that is unacceptable from the get go for her. I know it's from fear and a need for control but this is not the way to go about getting it.
And you wonder where the term "yes man" comes from? I make a poor "yes man." In my wife's eyes.....I'm a cat and she is trying to herd me and having about as much success! lol I can take responsibility for that much and I wouldn't disagree, but in respect to her....I don't deny this and ask her how I can make this aspect about me easier for her and less frustrating. She starts with:
Telling me what she wants directly and then not getting it. Now come the five stages of grief. denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance
Denial is of me and what I want ( I already know what she wants.....she could not tell me again for me to understand this part any better ) I play my own part too by the way. In denial of what she wants in terms of me doing it better in service of what I want. But only to a point. I don't deny her the ability to say NO in any respect to her. I don't want a "yes man" for a partner...who want's that?
anger....self explanatory! lol
bargaining ...this is where are in this stage of my wife not getting what she wants in these moments and here when I made this post. It isn't bargaining when you are in denial that you won't or can't always get what you want. It's still just fighting or having an adversarial confrontation to see who wins in competition. This is where my wife goes into the next stage (depression) after I finally cave and join her in the ring. This is the failure on my part not to go into competition with her. In general....I'm not adversarial to a fault and hate confrontation but....put me into a competitive scenario and I play to win just because that's the point of competition. I'm really good at winning if that is the point but it usually doesn't matter if I do or don't.....I've just learned how to win and I am good at it and this frustrates the Hell out of my wife. I've learned this now and know better.....she needs to learn this too and continually winning on my part is not teaching her anything. That's not the problem as I see it.
To me, my wife is "child's play" as arrogant as that sounds. But this too comes from years of playing sports and being in competition....even the term came from this as it was used back then to mean the same thing. (used as a taunt to rattle the opponent) It's not even fair to her once she challenges me and I accept. I will almost always win going at it like that (never physically to be sure) but my wife makes an easy opponent because she makes one of the fatal flaws you can ever make and being able to spot this from years of competition in sports.
If your eye is on the prize once you are actually in performance or playing in competition as they say, you can't focus on what you are doing and how well you are doing it. Staying focused and being calm is what is needed to win and not thinking about the prize.....the prize should be irrelevant and the last thing you ever want to be thinking about unless you want to lose. I can't tell you how many times I heard this from every coach, father or team mate I ever had growing up.....repeatedly! When I see someone doing this going in competition with me...I know they have already lost. It's just too easy to beat someone if you see that this is what they are doing because they are forgetting to pay attention to or think about what matters most in competition.....the other person ( you the opponent ).
This is why you need to grab your purse and leave because this is what your H is doing. Good for you for not engaging. I have to do this too. Even if I win....I still lose because as far as what they want ......is only what they want! lol Win of lose.....they will back around again and again until they get what they want by finally making you capitulate. grrrrrrrr lol
This is where establishing boundaries and rules come in. Even if my wife doesn't realize this is what she is doing......if you are going to play a game or have a competition.....everyone must know the rules before you play....that is only fair. Once there are rules....you also get to decide if you want to play or not but you still get to choose whether the answer is yes or no for yourself no matter what. That is only fair.
J
The Need for Humor lol
Submitted by kellyj on
I just remembered where my "nice shoot'in " quote came from even though at the time it just came out. I thought I would share my humor. It's from one of my favorite movies (Dr Strangelove ) and I just remembered why this was so funny to me at the time. Here's a good example of confusing and ambiguous irrational logic. I'm not making a comparison to my wife bye the way...but getting into this kind of "talking" could be compared only to my part and be equally crazy to engage her and how I feel afterward. Enjoy;)
https://youtu.be/Qr2bSL5VQgM
J
changing Talk
Submitted by s00manyquestions on
oh man..where to even begin...I can totally understand your absolute disgust and frustration with "we have to talk"...I get it. BUT at the same time, I'm just gonna say: sometimes there's no other way to say it other than: we have to talk. MAYBE a way to switch our thinking is: saying exactly that...we have to talk and make the conversation filled with nothing but positive affirmations and validating love. TALK doesn't have to be so dreary and daunting. I'm now realizing this. Or at least, I'm trying to look at it in a different light. words and communication is all that counts. It's the foundation to lasting bonds. How about it? Challenge for your ever clever mind: Go to your wife and say exactly that: 'We have to talk'. And as she dreadfully surrenders to the demise of her time: ... spend 'the talk' with list and ways she fullfills you...a list of her. All the greatness of her and how she affects your life, and how grateful and appreciative you are to have her in your life. (of course, in your own words).
All I'm saying is: as of late: my focus has been strongly on communication, assumptions, misunderstandings, understanding and such. I've learned soo much just by placing a focus on it and I find it extremely helpful to eliminate confusion and misunderstandings...ie fights.
Talking isnt bad!! Make it a good thing! I love talking...and I love when others talk to me (as long as it has merit).
"We have to Talk" ..... " I can't stand how much your love fills my soul." .... I love you more than I feel like I should...?