I think my boyfriend may be ADHD

This is so Borderline PD and Narcissistic PD.....

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 08/08/2015 - 22:20

<<<

e I had "ruined our lives" by breaking my leg. That night, upon coming home from the ER, I asked my friend and her paramedic husband to come over and help him get me out of the car safely, because it was Friday night and there was no doctor to put the cast on till Monday, and i was just wrapped up with a splint holding the bones in place. If they were jostled out of place, I would be required to have surgery. When my paramedic friend (who was also the trainer for all the other paramedics) began to try to instruct my BF on how to safely carry a person with a broken leg, my BF got all insulted, acting like my friend had bullied him or something, when all he did was try to correct my BF when he just wanted to grab me and pick me up, swinging my broken leg around in the air. All my BF could focus on was how this accident impacted HIM, and he seemed to be totally unaware how out of control his emotions were. The rest of that night was miserable after my friends left, because my BF was pacing around raging about how my friend had "bullied him" when nothing could be further from the truth!

<<<

Pretty much everything you wrote about, and particularly the above part, screams that your BF has two severe personality disorders.

You need to get him out of your life. I know, because I am married to someone who is a LOT like him. I would have left years ago, but I am so tied to him financially. You do not have those ties. Your money is yours, your assets are yours. Is he part owner of your home? I hope not.

Your relatives are right. He will get worse. Once you age and have the various issues with aging, he will even get worse.

I had two episodes while pregnant. One time I tripped over something that I couldn't see because of my pregnant belly and H yelled and yelled at me. Another time I actually injured my back and couldn't move. Because I was 8 months pregnant, there wasn't much the doctors could do for me, so H took it out on me.

I know that if I were to ever become seriously ill, H would become even the worse nightmare than he already is. I imagine that if I were ever hospitalized for any period of time, I would probably have to have security ban him from my room, seriously. He would very likely become so abusive because of how "all of this" is ruining his life.

I had to laugh when you wrote about how he blames you for his denting your car. One time H dented my car (I wasn't in the car) and he blamed our infant child because H said, "I had just changed a dirty diaper." lol Yes, H blamed the fact that he hit a wall while backing out of a parking space on a baby's dirty diaper!

You are especially vulnerable to even further abuse because you are the financial power in the household. That makes you a constant target for abuse because your money "makes him feel bad." And, "making a NPD/BPD person feel bad, " is a capital crime in their book. Everyday, your simple existence is a constant "rubbing salt in the wound" to his very wounded inner core and ego.

Why do you stay with him? Why do you support him?

Get out of this relationship now. Seriously. GET OUT.

In a nutshell..

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 05:09

>>>>

All my BF could focus on was how this accident impacted HIM, and he seemed to be totally unaware how out of control his emotions were. The rest of that night was miserable after my friends left, because my BF was pacing around raging about how my friend had "bullied him" when nothing could be further from the truth!

<<<

See, in a nutshell.....something painful was going on in your life, but all he could focus on was himself. Someone without a severe personality disorder would be able to "set aside," any selfish thoughts and focus on the most important issue, which is the pain and injury of a loved one.

When we were at the hospital after my dad had a quadruple bypass heart surgery, and dad suffered a major complication and nearly died, all my H could focus on was HIMSELF. My sister was called in to sign some emergency forms so that dad's complications could get dealt with and H was bothering her (by cell phone) about his lunch!! Yes! H had set his fast food lunch bag down in the waiting room and suddenly couldn't find it, so he kept trying to bother my sister to find out where it was. Nothing we could do or say would get him to back down and leave my sister alone while she was signing these medical papers. My dad was dying, my sister was trying to sign the medical papers, and H was focused on his lunch. And, my H loved my dad, so this wasn't because H was trying to cause my dad to die or anything like that.

Seriously, this story is so bizarre that if I told someone who doesn't know about personality disorders, they wouldn't believe my story. They would think I was either lying or exaggerating. No, it's very true. H kept calling my sister about his lunch when she was meeting with the medical people to sign permission papers. Our 16 year old son finally grabbed the phone out of my H's hands to end the call. Thankfully, my sister is a clinical therapist so she knew what she was dealing with and didn't let it distract her.

My sister has often told me that when someone does something so selfish at a time of urgency, that it's such a tell-tale sign of a personality disorder. A mentally normal person will nearly always set aside his own wants or needs at a time of someone else's emergency.

Think about it. If you're annoyed or angry, and some emergency happens with someone else, your anger or annoyance disappears while your new focus is on the emergency and taking care of that issue and the person who needs help. That is normal. For the person who is NOT normal, they often can't do that. They can't set aside their own personal annoyances or anger and focus on the true issue at hand.

Yesterday, I had a conversation with an old friend whose dad also has Narcissistic PD. Her dad is now now has cancer and his NPD issues are now worse. His anger at his wife has become worse. When the wife asked him why he's taking his anger out on her, he said, "because YOU don't have cancer." Obviously, it's not normal to be angry at a loved one because they don't have the serious illness that you have. In fact, quite the opposite. A normal person is glad that their loved one isn't the one suffering. How many people wish that they could be the sick one so that their loved ones can live? Many do. Only a mentally ill person says the opposite.

My H has said similar things to me. He'll tell me that he's angry that I'm not depressed or because I can sleep or because I can spend a day being happy. Who says those things except a mentally ill person. It's one thing to say, "i wish I could be like you." But, no, he says that he's ANGRY about those things.

i know you are right

Submitted by sickandtired on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 12:40

I guess I have stayed for 2 reasons. I am physically dependent on him because I am in a lot of pain. I have degenerative disc disease, and my back and ankles are still very sore from the fall, so I can't walk well, and can't bend over to pick up the dog bowls, etc. or carry any weight like groceries. The second reason is that he has said that if we break up, he would probably kill himself, and when that is combined with his frequent statements that if he had a terminal illness or if i died, he would kill himself and take someone down with him, like my brother, I can't take that chance that he would kill himself or someone else, especially my brother. Even if my brother has been uncompromising and unfair in this lawsuit, I can only think I have to protect my brother because I know that is what my parents would want. Why couldn't my BF just let the lawyers sort this all out? Why did he jump into the lawsuit with such a blood thirsty enthusiasm?

Just a thought

Submitted by doublej on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 18:33

If you were not financially supporting your BF, you could probably afford to get a little help with the household chores that are hard for you to do because of the pain.

I thought the same thing...

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 21:33

Yes, you could hire a teenager or someone to help you. It's better than the abuse.

What lawsuit?? What is that about? the inheritance? Can you fib to him and tell him some white lie that financially you can your sibling worked everything out fairly? It's none of his business as to whether that is true or not. He's not owed the truth.

You do need to be careful when separating yourself from a NPD/BPD person, but it can be done. I

You can't stay with him just because he threatens suicide. I understand that you'd be concerned that he would kill someone else and then commit suicide.

lawsuit

Submitted by sickandtired on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 22:29

The lawsuit was between me and my brother over our inheritance from our parents, and it has been all settled through the courts for over 2 years. My BF just can't let go of the hatred he feels for my brother, and always brings up play by play with anybody that talks with him long enough, almost reliving it, like he won a big war for me when actually he probably caused things to be drawn out longer, and I believe without him writing nasty threatening emails in my name to everyone involved, while not allowing me to compromise in the negotiations at all, it might have been resolved a lot quicker than the 8 years it took. I hold a lot of anger toward him for that, and that is a major factor in me emotionally shutting down.

how frustrating!

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 23:57

Just curious...once you found out that your BF was doing this, why didn't you let the attorneys and everyone know to only accept emails from a particular email address (yours) that only you had the password?

Believe me, I know exactly the personality type that you're describing.

You really need to get yourself away from him.

I know that you think that you need him to "help you," but I can assure you that at some point that "help" is going to come with huge strings attached. When you need help with something, there will be a demand that must be fulfilled before he'll do it. Or you will be blackmailed at some point. I have been blackmailed many, many times. It's unbelievable. There have been days that I've prayed that he would just die. Seriously. Once I was out shopping and my H couldn't find a pair of pants he wanted, he called me up and told me that I needed to come home right away to find those pants otherwise he'd break something of mine (believe me, he would have done it because he HAS done it). When I got home I quickly found the pants. He had left them on top of a chair in another room. One time he threatened to put my puppy in the front yard (so it would be in danger of being hit by a car or get lost) unless I came home right away.

None of these things did he do the first 20 years we've been together. That is how these things gets worse. Sometime around the 10th year of being together, he started demanding apologies (for things I didn't say or do) otherwise he'd refuse to go to something (like a planned vacation or to an invited social event). Then slowly the threats have worsened. Sometime around our 20th year, he began resorting to threats of breaking things, and he started doing that. One time while we were driving down the expressway, he got angry and demanded an apology. When I refused, he grabbed my purse and threw it out the window. Even though I was able to retrieve it, many things were broken including a new camera and my phone. Another time he threw my new phone into the toilet. Now he threatens to break my iPad if he's angry.

that's why I keep my phone, iPad and purse near me at all times and I immediately leave in my car when I sense that he's getting too upset. then when he demands that I come home, I hide my phone in my clothes and don't bring my purse or iPad into the house. .

I am trying to protect you. Please listen.

Does your BF drink or take any meds or drugs?

downward spiral

Submitted by sickandtired on Sat, 08/08/2015 - 10:32

I really appreciate your help, and just so you know, he is out of the house now, staying at the vacation house in the next town. He left my bank cards and credit cards here with me. This morning I woke up feeling positive and free, like I am my own person, instead of under him.

WOW, your stories of the awful things your H has done and threatened to do are terrifying, especially when you said it took 20 years for him to work up to that level of cruelty...the threat about the puppy really got to me, since I have 5 of my own. Did your H get any therapy, diagnosis,or meds back then? Is he an alcoholic? I wonder if any sort of meds or treatment would actually help these kinds of people??? I believe I can see some worsening of my BF's behavior over the years, and I don't know if it is an issue of aging (he's 58 soon to be 59), or me not being effective in standing up to a person who feels hugely entitled, or just the ravages of child abuse manifesting themselves, causing NPD.

Thanks for asking some hard questions regarding why I let him take over my life and the lawsuit. When my parents died, especially when my mother died in 2006, I was devastated, did not care about ANYTHING because my mom was gone, and she was my best friend. When she was alive, BF was wonderful to her and my dad, who were both in their late 80's, so I admired and trusted him. He did chores for them, helped me fight off predators who were after their money, drove them places, etc. I know I sunk into a huge depression when I lost my mom, and I don't think I am over it yet, I mean you never get over it, but at least now, I can talk about her and write about her and not break down and cry, I just get a little misty. I was so torn up about losing her it was hard to do anything, and BF always would convince me that he only had my best interests at heart, that since I was a woman, all of these attorneys were taking advantage of me, and that "a man" should talk to them because they would naturally respect him more. I would tell one of the attorneys (we went through 4) that BF was the one who wrote that last email to him, and the attorney would always say he only wanted to talk to me, which made sense to me since I was the actual Plaintiff, but when I told my BF, he would take it personally as a rejection, a lack of respect for him, and go into a tirade that they were just trying to get him out of the picture while trying to screw me over, like NOBODY would protect me like him. I swear, sometimes it was like being with a growling, menacing pit bull who was going to protect you whether you liked it or not. He even said that to me once...that he promised my Mom he would protect me, and he would do that for her whether I wanted it or not, because I didn't know what is best for me in my cloud of grief. He would go on and on trying to convince me to fire one attorney, and get another one, someone he could work with, hah, what a laugh...BF can't cooperate enough to work with anybody on anything, especially a big mess of a case like that was, he did not even go to college, and it just amazed me that he thought he knew more than the attorneys. My dad's guardianship attorney called me several times, saying BF was "a problem" because BF would call up various people involved in the case, like social workers, accountants, insurance agents, and my dad's corporate attorney and try to convince them that my brother was a crook, basically badgering them, like he did me, to "do the right thing", not understanding or respecting that this is just not how the legal system works. i tried to explain how the legal system works, but that just seemed to make him more angry, saying how much he hated judges and any other authority figures. One time, we were driving from OK to AZ and he had me in the car, just spewing out how much he hated my attorney, how he did not "respect" BF, and he went on like that for over 3 hours, threatening to leave me if i did not fire him. He certainly knows how to wear me down, and he has the energy of a teenager when he is in a fight, but when he needs to finish on of his many projects around the house, he quickly gets tired and just leaves it.....sometimes for years, tools, scraps and all. It was like anger was a fuel for him, or a drug. Speaking of drugs, he does not drink, never had a drinking problem, he just doesn't like it because it irritates his ulcer. He describes himself as a very nervous person, and admits that he has a chip on his shoulder. He self medicates with codeine and valium he would buy on the internet. I tried to get him to go to therapy years ago, but instead of therapy, self-medicating was his solution to his need to mellow out. Pot seems to help him mellow out his anger, and allow him to sleep, and I actually wish he would smoke more of that way more often than he does!

I Just Caught the Last Part....

Submitted by kellyj on Sat, 08/08/2015 - 11:08

about your BF and the drugs. I also wanted to say that I did get caught up a bit (at the risk of sounding too paranoid) in my own experience and hope that the point I was making didn't get confused or compared to the woman I had so much trouble with. It only takes once...you know! lol

But what is interesting.....since I did get that sense about your BF (and my initial visceral reaction) ...that I did not include in my story about this this woman and her friends is that they all share one thing in common ...and now including your BF in what you just said. Opiates, Codeine, Valium, Vicodin, Zanex, Percocet, Heroin, Oxy-contin, Morphine or Fentinol. I had no idea that this was going on behind the scenes until I accidentally made this discovery. There were clues that were dismissed immediately by her and I didn't question it until I happened upon a package that I thought was mine and opened it by mistake. This was the beginning of the end for me with these people since I found out after the fact....that they were all using and trading it back and forth between each other. Her brother told me this later and that she had been a Heroin addict years previous. I had no idea. I was naive and ignorant to that world and knew nothing about the signs or what to look for. I do now! ha ha

Anyway.....I am still ignorant about this to make a point. I hate these drugs and what they do to me. I have never done Heroin but I have smoked Opium in college when it was offered to me only once. I hated it. I hate downers, depressants, sedatives of any kind and pot has a nasty habit of making me fall asleep and be lethargic even though it does relax me although....too much or more than I prefer most of the time.

This is interesting that you mentioned this. I also find it interesting that my feelings resounded my initial reaction and response to the things you were saying about your BF I wonder what the correlation is to these drugs and a persons issues and personality types. I don't have any real answers or speculations but I did find this fascinating along with this one common demoninator?

drugs

Submitted by sickandtired on Sat, 08/08/2015 - 12:20

Yeah, I think some of these drugs you mentioned, especially oxy, are so addictive, that what you may have seen in her were some of the symptoms of withdrawal. Your comment also reminded me that my BF took a lot of the hydrocodones prescribed to me for the pain of my broken leg, especially after i told them I did not like the way they made me feel (dizzy) and was going to throw them away.

I had a friend who was married to an ADHD guy who was addicted to oxy, and he was terrible, lying, cheating, picking up strippers, gambling a lot of my friend's money away...she finally divorced him thank god. I know that my BF found a lot of relief in codeine and valium, even though his behavior was still bad, like when is own sister died from cancer, he had taken a codeine pill, and instead of focusing on comforting her daughters, he went into a tirade how they needed to sue their dad that their mom was in the process of divorcing, because he was contesting the divorce (her husband was a cruel monster with many of the same traits we see in this forum). Anyway, these daughters needed love the day their mom died, not some angry aggressive plan of attack that he was shoving down their throats, saying horrible stuff to them on the phone just moments after their Mom died, like, "If you don't call a lawyer RIGHT NOW, you are stupid, and your mother would hate you for it." How insensitive and mean!!! I called him out on it, saying, please just let them bury her first before you go on the warpath, but no, my pleas for peace and emotional support were met with a huge tantrum from him, including him running out of the house threatening suicide, acting like I was attacking HIM, and not coming back for 8 hours. His poor nieces kept calling back that day, and I had to comfort them, and when they asked where he was and I said i don't know, they were forced to worry about their uncle in addition to grieving the loss of their mom that day.

Can You Say Emotional Dysregulation?

Submitted by kellyj on Sat, 08/08/2015 - 12:22

I think that is what you have here most of the time. Yikes!!

And yes....what I saw and didn't know it the time was.....a relatively happy or carefree person when on drugs....and a nightmare when they weren't or worse....coming off them and couldn't find more. That's what I was seeing but didn't know it at the time. This goes a step beyond Jeckel and Hyde....more like Mr Hyde but only hopped up temporarily! lol

I believe that Emotional Dysregulation is another name for ...

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 08/08/2015 - 22:34

Is another name for Borderline Personality Disorder. I think I read that they're the same thing. I think I read that Emotional Dysregulation has become more of a preferred term because it is less-offensive sounding than BPD. The words Borderline Personality Disorder have become "too insulting" to people, so Emotional Dysrelation has a "softer" sound.

This is very familiar....

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 08/08/2015 - 22:13

>>>> I would tell one of the attorneys (we went through 4) that BF was the one who wrote that last email to him, and the attorney would always say he only wanted to talk to me, which made sense to me since I was the actual Plaintiff, but when I told my BF, he would take it personally as a rejection, a lack of respect for him, >>>>

This is very familiar. One time, I witnessed a crime. I had to go to the police station to file a report. H went with me. When the police officer came out to take down my info, H kept trying to tell the story. The cop asked my H if he was also a witness, H said, "no", which was true. The cop told H that H couldn't provide any info since he wasn't a witness. Every time I tried to talk, H would interrupt to tell the story. The cop had to keep telling him that since H wasn't a witness, the cop couldn't take any info from him.

It got ridiculous. H wouldn't be quiet, even when the cop told him to be quiet. I couldn't tell the cop what I had seen because H wouldn't be quiet. H kept getting angry at me for not defending H's "right" to talk. H had no "right" to talk, so H got mad at me for not being loyal to him.

After getting nowhere, I finally stood up and asked the cop if he would be there the next day. The cop said, yes. I said that I'd come back tomorrow, by myself (H would be at work) and then give my report.

For years, H raged at me for not being loyal to him. omg! It wasn't a question of loyalty. Cops can't take statements from people who weren't witnesses!!

This happened about 10 years ago, which was the beginning of the time period when H started to really worsen. Not that he was great before, but at this point in time and forward, he became an absolute horror to live with.

This is also the time that he became an alcoholic, I was unaware for a LONG time because he only drank late at night and MOSTLY after I went to sleep. So, I had NO IDEA for a very long time that he was drinking excessively and had become an alcoholic.

In fact, prior to me realizing what he was doing (heavy drinking after I went to sleep), H appeared to be the exact opposite of a problem drinker. He seemed to rarely drink. If we went out to dinner, I would order a glass of wine, and H would order a soda. When the waiter would ask if he wanted a cocktail or something, H would look like the person had asked him if he wanted poison. H would be like, "No way, I could never have a drink this early, (it would be like 7pm), it would knock me out." So, I would be the only one having a drink, so I probably looked like the drinker. ha ha.

When you say that your BF is now at your vacation home, do you mean that he's moved out? Or do you mean he's just staying at your other property? Why is he there? How long will he be there?

Yes, I Saw This Too

Submitted by kellyj on Sun, 08/09/2015 - 09:02

For now, I will just call my encounter (gulp) madam X, or X for the sake of argument. I saw the exact same behavior with her. I had not officially moved in with her but I was living in her home while I was doing work on it....which was part of the scam. Anyway, she would suddenly change behavior and one of them was staying up all night and shifting her sleeping habits. I think this is a big red flag. I observed this with another person once who was doing it for the same reason. Drinking or doing drugs so no one will see them doing it. She's say things like, oh, lots of couples have different hours.

Not like this. It was to hide something not because there was some legitimate reason. Another friend of mine had a wife who suddenly came down with liver cancer in her 40's and died very quickly after that. The Dr told my friend that her liver was severely damaged from alcohol. My friend only recalled her having " a cocktail or two" at night with him when he came home from work each day. The Dr told him she had to have drinking every day all day long for years for the kind of damage to your liver. My friend was shocked and heart broken since he had been married to her for over 20 years and never had any idea. She left him and their two children behind with this realization but no one ever saw it.

Hiding things is a big one for someone like this but as a result of their own secrecy.....they are highly suspicious and intrusive themselves and will go though your things and investigate you as if you are up to something or up to no good. This is another red flag I think. I saw this many times in little ways but never understood why? It just didn't register to anything that I had experienced before but there was always some plausible deniability given even if it was a stretch and didn't make good sense.

I did end up in court with X after I had been out of her house (and her life) for over two years to have a bogus order she filed dismissed I got served with a restraining order at that time which was filled out by her accompanied by a ten page document that was like reading a psychotic fairy tale of paranoid delusions of how the police and I had conspired together to attack her in her home and make threats against her and she feared for her safety.....as if I had some special relationship with the police and they were all out to get her? (as a result of her friend who helped her steal from me getting arrested shortly after I tried to recover what I had lost...almost 2 years prior to this restraining order) She lied when she filed the order saying we had had sex within that time (after the fact) which was one of the stipulations for it to be legitimate. When she was called to give her testimony in front of the judge....the judge asked her some basis back ground questions which she would not answer her but instead....wanted to retell her story to the judge. The judge stopped her not once but twice and said "let's try this a third time (crossly at that point) and repeated the simply question she was asking "yes" or "no". X said under her breath...'no" while looking at the floor and the judge made her repeat it so we all could hear it. When my attorney walked up and basically baited her to admit that she did not have sex with me for over 4 years...he turned to the judge and pointed out the 2 years time line and the judge said "case dismissed". This took approximately 10 minutes however ....when this happened, X's face and head turned bright red (in anger not embarrassment) and started arguing with the judge saying that the court clerk had lied to her and told her the wrong information. This was a female judge by the way and she did not look very happy at this point. She had to sternly tell her that there was no basis for anything she claimed based on the falsified order in the first place and it was over and she had to now get off the stand. You would think this might be enough to get her to stop? X got up and turned to the judge and in a highly disrespectful tone said " well....I'll just have to find some other kind of restraining order and get a different judge then."

I hadn't spoken with or had any contact with X for almost a year and a half when this happened and had stopped all attempts to try and recover anything at that point from her. This was what my T was saying....they won't let go of anger and will hold onto it indefinitely and if they get a wild hair even years later....they will come back for revenge if something triggers them to think about any displaced anger or problem they are having and associate it with you.

I'm not a small guy (once I sprouted as a teenager:) and I am generally not afraid of people ( I can take care of myself in public situations if needed). I was even a bouncer in college at rock concerts and confronted some pretty big ugly wasted patrons during that time. But this kind of crazy ( madam X )scares the ever living crap out of me! It defies anything that I know or have ever experienced with anyone before. My T even said to me that the things that had caused her such turmoil were like taking a tiny grain of sand and turning it into a mountain in her mind so there was no trying to make any sense of it on any rational level or that will just make you crazy in trying but....he did warn me not to be surprised if some biker shows up at my door some day to give me grief or hassle me down the road. He said "these people are really good at getting the next person they are with to believe that you did something horrible to them and convince them that now you have to pay." YIKES!!!

It been enough years now that I think I might be off the hook. Hopefully, X has found some other poor soul to impose her crazy on to. I just feel sorry for who ever that is.

It's unbelievable how they can fool us!

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 23:24

>> Another friend of mine had a wife who suddenly came down with liver cancer in her 40's and died very quickly after that. The Dr told my friend that her liver was severely damaged from alcohol. My friend only recalled her having " a cocktail or two" at night with him when he came home from work each day. The Dr told him she had to have drinking every day all day long for years for the kind of damage to your liver. My friend was shocked and heart broken since he had been married to her for over 20 years and never had any idea. She left him and their two children behind with this realization but no one ever saw it. <<

Several years ago, I realized H was drinking at night, but I didn't know the extent. All I knew was that our liquor cabinet bottles were suddenly empty, but he made it sound like it happened over a long period of time....and since I didn't know better, I believed him. He made it sound like, "Oh, sometimes I can't get to sleep, so I have a drink or two." Since I hadn't been regularly checking the liquor cabinet, I didn't know enough to know that that was a lie.

But, I stopped stocking the liquor cabinet because H seemed to be "wasting" the booze simply because it was there. I naively thought that if the cabinet was empty, he'd stop the impulsive drinking. Wrong.

One night, around midnight, I was in the bathtub. H called out for me to "hurry to bed." I told him I'd be there in 10 minutes. When I got to bed, I was shocked to hear him snoring, since he obviously had wanted some "romance". I went to sleep. A couple hours later, I hear this "thud" and I could see H on the floor. I thought he was either having a reaction from his Blood Pressure meds (which sometimes made him lightheaded) or that he had had a stroke. H would not wake up. He seemed to be unconscious. I called 911.

When the paramedics arrived, they asked me if he had been drinking. I said, No, because I didn't think we had any liquor in the house (and I told them that). When we got to the hospital, I was asked the same question and I gave the same answer.

Imagine my humiliation when about 20 minutes later, a doctor and 2 nurses come into the room with very stern faces. One of them tells me that H's blood level alcohol is extremely high. Of course, they thought I had lied to them. I again told them that I had no idea that he had been drinking (I didn't know!!), and that I didn't think we had any booze in the house.

They really pumped fluids in thru his IV to sober him up faster. When H finally "woke up", he refused to get dressed so that we could leave. Instead he wanted to sleep. I couldn't WAIT to get out. I was so embarrassed.

Several hours later, H agreed to dress and leave. He told me that he had a bottle of gin hidden in his closet and he had chugged it.

Even though I'm a pretty smart woman, I had little idea that this was going on.

H swears that his liver is ok, but I have my doubts.

This sort of behavior may be common to those with PD's.

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 08/08/2015 - 22:29

>>> My BF just can't let go of the hatred he feels for my brother, and always brings up play by play with anybody that talks with him long enough, almost reliving it, like he won a big war for me <<<

When my H's father was seriously ill, H believed that everyone (doctors, siblings, etc) didn't want him to get the best medical care. He would spend hours and hours contacting his doctors, yelling at his siblings, etc, believing that only he knew the right treatment for his dad. After his dad died, H spend the next 4 years raging about how all these people "killed his dad." H truly believes that he knew better how to treat his dad than the experts.

This Made Me Nausious*

Submitted by kellyj on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 09:55

I had recently come out of an emotionally abusive 12 year marriage to a sex addict who was a compulsive liar, so after the divorce, You were ripe for the picking as they say.....and easy target for someone like this. I feel for you....I have been where you are and had the same things happen to me.

We have been together 10 years, and at first he was too good to be true. (first big red flag) He was what you needed him to be. People like this have a sixth sense in their ability to adapt themselves to fit any situation and change roles and parts just like a method actor. It's scary how well they can do this. My T told me once (with 30 years of experience with these people) that he's met some who within 20 minutes....have the same sense about them in this way that took him that long and a doctorate degree in psychology to gain this same ability. He said it's creepy how attuned they are in doing this. They're radar is looking for someone who is vulnerable and easy to manipulate and deceive. No offense.....I can say the exact same thing about myself. You have nothing to be ashamed of. A person like this is a predator IMHO....as unqualified as I am to make this determination as I am in saying this but I have strong feelings behind this statement.

He hates his parents, who he says "abused" him by being very strict, making him go to church 3 times a week, etc. That's probably true but I will wager there was a lot more abuse going on than just that. He probably can't even remember the worst of it and has blocked it from his memory.

my BF is angry pretty much all of the time, he HATES authority figures, delights when he hears about a cop or a judge being murdered on the news, has not spoken to his parents in over 20 years, talks constantly, especially how others have wronged him. Displaced rage and victim mentality to an extreme with sadistic overtones. This is scary shit right there.

I made the mistake of telling him about them confronting me about his verbal abuse, and of course, he blamed THEM, saying they are "men-haters", and he demanded that I take them out of my will because of what they said about him. He said he did not want to have to "deal with" them after I die. He says unnecessarily hurtful things to others and threatens people online that he doesn't even know. He often fantazizes about killing people he sees on the news that he does not agree with, like all of the justice in the world can only come from him. Years ago, I had to call the police on him once because he was running around the house waving a gun in the air, threatening to kill my brother because we were involved in an inheritance dispute. More of the same displaced rage and anger that is being projected onto other people. Fantazizing is not so far from reality for him I think. Delusional or deluded might be a better word to describe what you are seeing.

My best friend and my niece have heard him say derogatory things about me, and they both say I am verbally abused, and they fear that he is a ticking time bomb, who will one day harm me physically. The thing that worries me about the future is his frequent, unpredictable anger. I would listen to your friend and niece. He may not hurt you physically but they could be right there too. If you think about how angry he is by you inuring yourself and he has to take care of you. Think what will happen if you actually injure him in some way either emotionally or otherwise. You are not exempt by any means in fact....you are the person who could hurt him the most because of your relationship with him. If you ever mentioned leaving him or actually started to follow through and he knows about it ahead of time......I think he will try and retaliate in some way and you will be injured in one form or another.

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could spit....maybe even not that far. Truth be known, I have a biased opinion here from my own experience but I am not exaggerating at all in the things I am saying. I had a visceral reaction (*the title of my comment) while reading your post which tells me that I am not far off base. What I know as a confirmed fact by my T is that the person I was with who was like this was BPD/APD + and added bonus along with it and was a scary individual. I am not one to go to extremes in my opinions normally but I think for someone like this, the potential to do harm in malevolent ways is very real if they perceive injury from you in any way. There is a sadistic side to what you were saying that sounds hauntingly familiar. (which means they fantasize and enjoy seeing other peoples pain and suffering)

You might look up the "(vulnerable) dark triad" instead of looking at ADHD as a possible source instead? Personally.....I would leave and get out secretively and as quietly as I could without letting him know anything about what you are doing ahead of time. If it's your home....you can get a restraining order to keep him away if he reacts in the way he has in the past and starts threatening you. I think you should listen to what your gut is telling you in this case. I would have to concur with your friend and niece along with them. If I am correct in what I am saying....a person like this is prone to stalk you and come after later including hassling your friend and niece as he indicated. (probably not kill them as he said) It goes with the territory or at least...... this was my experience for what it's worth.

thanks for being there for me

Submitted by sickandtired on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 10:28

Thank you so much for your quick responses. I needed that validation of my gut feelings. I have thought about breaking up with him for years, but he would always calm down and I would think he was just having a bad reaction to the stress of the inheritance lawsuit with my brother. During that time, however, he would hyperfocus on the trial proceedings, getting way too involved into it, like sending ridiculously long, angry emails with tons of assumptions, speculation and unreasonable demands to my attorneys using MY name!!! I was just too heartbroken over the deaths of my parents less than a year apart, that I just could not get enthusiastic about any lawsuit, and my BF says he had to get involved to "protect" me. I don't know how alienating my parents' business partners, insurance agents, accountant and attorney was supposed to help me. When I read my attorneys replies to my(his) emails...that would be the first time I would be able to read the email written to them by my BF. How embarrassing to be seen as the unreasonable person who would write threats to her own attorney!!! I had one really tough, respected attorney, and my BF literally demanded that I fire him, saying that my BF could do a better job in court after just doing some legal research on the internet than an experienced attorney, huh!?!...he just can't work with anyone, including me, without getting angry. In fact, even a small annoyance, like if we would be having an ok day with nothing wrong, and a bug might fly in his face...after several moments of having to deal with a little annoyance like that, he would spew out a bunch of hateful, hateful stuff, like "i fucking hate you jesus!!!" "suck my dick god...when i get to the afterlife, I want to kick your ass!"

When you said about my mere existence rubs salt in his wounds....I never thought about it that way, but i have sensed resentment from him since I finally got the inheritance in 2010.....even though he says it is me that has changed. The main thing I have done is shut down...we talk less and less, because it nearly always ends up with him talking about his warped sense of the world being a horrible place...he even frequently says he wished his mother had aborted him so he could just go straight to heaven....I know the abuse was worse with his parents than just church all the time, his dad beat him, and he told me he would laugh instead of cry, and that worried his mother. Also when he was 35, he had a misunderstanding about real estate and money with his parents, and his father told him his birth was an accident. Some great Christians, huh? He says a lot of crazy stuff to me, like "I hate your brother more than I love you", "Maybe a younger, less intelligent woman would understand me better"..he laid that one on me after a long frustrating drive on a vacation in CA....when all I did was try to change the subject when he saw a cop pull somebody over, and he had been stewing over it for several miles, getting himself more and more worked up with his own words. His angry words echoed in my mind with all the other stuff, ruining the vacation. My niece and my best friend went with us on 2 separate vacations, and this is when they said he was bad for me, because he would get us in the car, get behind the wheel, and just start talking non-stop about my faults and shortcomings, and then he started on my friend, just as we were driving into Monument Valley, which was on her dream list, he starts asking her about her abusive childhood, and how she feels about her daughter being a teenage unwed mother...even asking her about her own birth control and if my friend really "wanted" her born late in life daughter...how embarrassing for me and how intrusive for her, she said she felt violated. She was was amazed and upset by his lightening quick excessive discipline of our 2 dogs...it wasn't good enough that they got into their beds, he jumped on them, demanding that they put their heads DOWN! He is especially strict on my favorite dog, saying he hates him and never wanted him. When i try to intervene if he gets too rough with him, BF says, "you care more about the dog than you do me."

Every time we argue, he would threaten suicide if it looked like I was going to dump him. That is why I have tried to get help for him, rather than just turn him out penniless. My T said those suicide threats were incredibly manipulative, and that even if he did it, it isn't my fault. Well, that is my weak point, because he knows that my sister killed herself years ago, and being a family member of a suicide victim is devastating. I am going to get him out of my life...thanks again for validating my gut feelings. Since I own everything, I thought I might offer him some lump sum to live on for a while until he can find a job. If he does not find a job, I am afraid he might follow through with the suicide, and i would do anything to prevent that, but I don't know what to do.

Yes, This Is Exactly Right

Submitted by kellyj on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 10:18

My T said those suicide threats were incredibly manipulative, and that even if he did it, it isn't my fault. Well, that is my weak point, because he knows that my sister killed herself years ago, and being a family member of a suicide victim is devastating. This was what I was talking about....that sixth sense. Who thinks in these terms? This is using your traumatic experience as a tool or weapon against you and he knows exactly how to play this. It's making you responsible ahead of time for causing him to kill himself (as he threatens). It's a means to make you feel guilty for something that hasn't even happened yet so you won't abandon him.

If he does not find a job, I am afraid he might follow through with the suicide, and i would do anything to prevent that, but I don't know what to do. And here's how well that works. It doesn't get any more manipulative than that. He's using your caring loving good nature against you to serve his needs.

I don't think he will kill himself.....in fact...he doesn't sound like someone who is depressed at all? I think a person like this deep down is a coward and will not kill themselves. I think these manipulations are actually a survival instinct instead of a death wish....but it does serve to make you believe this is true so you will feel sorry for him and not hurt him in any way. It's just the opposite of what he is saying. He's a coward....he doesn't have it in him to kill him self. And if he did (not saying he will do this ) I think this is the type of person who climbs a clock tower with with hunting rifle and kills a bunch of people before putting the gun to them self out a rage and anger not because they are the poor victim.

Everything you are saying is very concerning. I think you should heed your therapists advise in this case.

yep...

Submitted by sickandtired on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 11:18

Yes, I will call my therapist. he has been locked in his room since day before yesterday evening, and yesterday, after not hearing a peep from him for 18 hours, I knocked on his door, just to see if he is all right, and he opened the door, looking very depressed and tired, saying he did not feel welcomed here any more. I said, "All because i asked you to not put the flyswatter on the new dining room table any more???" He said he was walking on eggshells, never knowing when I would "give him hell" about something he does that is not perfect, since everything belongs to me and he has nothing. I said that he needed to go back to his therapist, that what he was saying is his illness talking, that i did not give him hell or "attack him" which is how he sees anything i say that does not agree with his viewpoint...I simply asked him nicely. He then said I manipulate and control him with money, which is NOT true. I have shared everything I have with him. He can buy anything he wants, and has bought tons of tools on Ebay and amazon. He had root canal dental problems, that were all repaired, with beautiful cosmetic front caps, too. I gave his sister $5,000 to help her get a divorce from her psycho husband who complained about parking issues when she wanted to go to a different clinic for a second opinion when she had cancer. My BF thinks this guy is a monster, but he doesn't see that he says similar things to me. I have given my BF total access to my finances, allowing him to carry our one bank ATM card. I have paid the taxes for his unfinished house in Oklahoma that he pretty much abandoned working on it when he met me, and that of course is my fault, too, because he had to put all his efforts into my lawsuit. Anyway, when he said that, I lost it and started getting angry, basically screaming at him to go back to counseling and the psychiatrist or get out. Then I went to my room, and took my dogs and locked the door. He is still locked up in his room this morning.

A Word of Warning

Submitted by kellyj on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 14:54

God this sounds too familiar. In reality (mine )...I was too trusting and did some of the same things that you did. Please...don't let him have control of your bank cards!! A person like this will go to lengths that you have probably never thought of if they think you are on your way out. I lost more than I care to think about and it was done in a way that I had no recourse to recover anything. I learned a valuable lesson in what you believe is against the law...and what the law will actually do if someone like this breaks it. In my case .....nothing. In the real world (not TV crime shows ) and I quote the police " yes, we can go and arrest these people and put them in jail and book them on a number of crimes.....but the DA's office will throw them back out in the streets and they will never go to court. There aren't enough DA's, court space and judges available to prosecute these kinds of cases. Your a little fish in a big pond. Sorry, we can't do anything." That's reality. I had a US Federal Marshall go after one of (her) friends who helped (her) and had a warrant out for her arrest for embezzlement and identity theft. He told me that he had arrested a man a few weeks earlier with a hand full of credit cards in his pocket (red handed) in other peoples names. As he said " you would think this would be a slam dunk no brainer. They released him and he walked Scott free the same day. These people know exactly how far they can go and cross the line and nothing will happen to them." For the reason I said. They arrested (her) friend for a prior missed court date and she was released. Nothing became of it and I never saw a penny.

Unfortunately....that is the real world we live in and how things really work. Don't think that you are safe or protected if he lives in your home with you. You're not. If he lives there and has a key....it's not stealing in the eyes of the law. Only if someone breaks into your home ( through a window or door). You will also not be able to collect any insurance for the same reason. At that point....you are truly SOL.

In what I am saying in my case....this is not hearsay or second hand information. This is straight up, from the horses mouth....or ass ( since that's what I felt like when all was said and done )

One More Bit of Advise

Submitted by kellyj on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 16:18

As I found the hard way....a person like this has an entitlement that goes beyond anything that you could imagine. Who knows what your BF is capable of but again...in my situation. Stealing everything that these people could get their hands on was not enough. Take everything you know about a Narc and multiply it times 10. Entitlement, victim mentality and sense that the world owes them....that includes you. You have been his source for a long time....he feels entitled to that from you for life. You owe him and that gives him the right to claim what is rightfully his.

They are also very good at preemptive strikes to cover their tracks and prevent you from coming back at him. For anything. Think about how much just asking him not to put his things on your table sent him into a tizzy. They have no shame or will accept no blame. You are the bad (girl) in all things just like the rest of the world once you are not taking care of him anymore. Everything that you have ever done or said that he took offense to that he can use against you later....he will.

In my case....these people had a very well thought through plan of attack to discredit me and use against me...as they thought. This is where I learned the lesson of exposure. After they got what wasn't nailed down or was easy to get....they tried to blackmail me for more with the threat of exposing me to my family, friends and my employer. My T really helped me through this and I realized...it was they who feared exposure not me. The only thing that could happen to me was to have things I chose not to share with my family for example, out of respect to them....but I had nothing to hide in the same way they did. I told them to go Fuck themselves and I did nothing after that. This woman did follow through with her promise and contacted everyone I knew and downloaded what she thought was going to do what that information would do to her if it were turned around....expose people to the truth. All she did was solidify my friendships and family member around me and I went after them instead. This served to get them to scatter and leave me alone but....it was a nightmare for a while and it took it's toll on me emotionally. Talk about learning impulse control!!!! lol I did hire a lawyer who basically told me to give it up.....I would be wasting my money with him because it wouldn't get anything back from it. I agreed but I remember one thing he told me. He said " People like this are like cock roaches....they like to stay in the dark and don't not like the light shined on them...... when that happens....they scatter and run for a place to hide." That was good advise. It happened just as he said.

All I'm saying is that you should protect yourself beyond what you might think. My T agreed, he said that coming back after you for more is part of the pathology. if they think they can get more from you....they will if they can. Please think about this....I wouldn't want you to run into the same kind of thing if you can avoid it.

Take care.

good advice

Submitted by sickandtired on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 16:33

Thanks J,

I am going to see my therapist. My BF finally came out of his room about an hour ago, very subdued like a wounded little child, which is probably due to all of the emotional energy he uses up when he has one of these episodes. Anyway, we(I) have a vacation house and he said he wanted to go stay up there for a while and i said OK. He left my bank card and all the credit cards he has that are shared with me. I asked him again to go back to therapy and he said OK. He said he hates being dependent on me and feels like a failure because he has not accomplished anything in his life..no job, no savings, only an unfinished shell of a house in OK he had to travel to (we live in AZ) last year to rebuild some of it because it didn't have a roof and many of the boards in the framework were rotting and falling down because it was 2 years since his last visit to his house. Procrastination and time management skills are at least playing some part in his inability to finish a project and gain a sense of accomplishment. I said a therapist could help him make a plan to deal with these issues as well as childhood trauma and anger. He took his dog (from before my time) with him and left the other 4 dogs here with me. All 5 of "us" feel like we can exhale a little now.

Yes

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Fri, 08/07/2015 - 21:32

>>>

We have been together 10 years, and at first he was too good to be true. (first big red flag) He was what you needed him to be. People like this have a sixth sense in their ability to adapt themselves to fit any situation and change roles and parts just like a method actor.

>>>

Exactly

SOOOOOO FRUSTRATED!!!

Submitted by sickandtired on Mon, 08/10/2015 - 13:33

Well, the latest I told you guys was that my BF is out of the house ... Here is an update: After only 1 day on his own, he texted, saying there was something wrong with his 14 year old dog he took with him, and that he was bringing him home, that he had collapsed on a short walk, and his back legs weren't working. I dearly love this dog, and his vet is just around the corner from me. I called the vet, got an appointment for him, and texted BF with the appointment time for that day. The next thing I know....here comes BF with the dog, who jumps out of the truck and runs to me...with the energy of a puppy. BF says, well, he must have just been depressed, missing his family (BF had left our other 4 dogs with me). So anyway, BF seems calm and concerned about his dog, saying "I swear, he only started to perk up after he saw me pulling into the driveway, I thought he was dying......now he's making a fool of me." I did not confront him on this obvious manipulation of my love of animals, especially my own, to get back into the house. After I canceled the vet visit, BF calmly said he wanted to talk, he had written a bunch of stuff down that he asked if I could remain calm (sure, why not?) while he read his list of grievances to me. He basically laid all the misunderstandings on me, saying I used him to get my house fixed up for free (he is a carpenter and A/C guy), and blamed my brother for the lawsuit, only taking responsibility for his own below the belt tactics by saying, "Everyone has to fight dirty" blah blah blah.....this went on for a long time, like over an hour, because I had agreed to listen to him uninterrupted....he accused me of trying to "frame" him by begging him to go to counseling, saying he could fix his own problems...yeah right. Dr. Phil always says at that point, how's that working for you? He said a bunch of stuff about how he hates people in general...on and on. After a whole lot more of this kind of talk and blame shifting from him, I just could not sit quietly any more and listen to this huge pity party, how meeting ME is the reason he is so angry upset and depressed all the time, like he had no problems at all in his life till he met me. He said he wanted me to pay him for his work, like an employee... I guess trying to build a family with him and openly sharing everything with him is not good enough, even though in fits of anger before, he accused me of treating him like an employee, and how insulting and used that made him feel. So....this went on for HOURS, like he started around 9am and was still going strong by 6pm...he would follow me down the hall, still non-stop talking, when I had to get up for bathroom breaks. Jesus! I was so angry, but I controlled it and did not call him names or threaten to kill myself or any of the awful things he says all the time, but his conclusion was, it is all my fault, that I am trying to Gaslight him or something, trying to convince him that he is crazy...he did about 90% of the talking, so who was trying to convince who??? So it ended when he finally agreed to go see this new therapist. BF wanted us to try marriage counseling again, but this time with a male therapist...he thinks all females will automatically be on my side. The problem is, in this small town, there are no males who do marriage counseling. I told him this, and I thought he agreed to go ahead and see this male therapist for individual counseling, where I could come in for some sessions to talk about our relationship, but this morning, he came out of his room very late (which usually means that he woke up angry), saying that I had tricked him, and have found another doctor who will say he's crazy, blah blah blah. He said I am the one with the anger issue, because I raised my voice to him after he locked himself in his room all night and all day, screaming at him to go to counseling. I said well, I will go by myself then. He said, "Oh no, I want to get to him first, before you get a chance to get in there and "Bash Me"....... HUH????? He won't accept that I am trying to help him....it's like all he sees in me now are accusations. It's like you can't talk to people with this disorder... I feel like all he can do is turn the tables on me so that he is the victim and I am the bad guy. It really hurts that he doesn't even think I am looking out for his best interests. How can any person listen to someone say they look forward to death, hate this world, wish their mother had ABORTED HIM, hate god, hate hate hate.... and not try to get that person some professional help??? So he stormed out of here a little while ago, I don't know if he will make it to the therapist's office or not....at least he left the dog here this time.

Same old same old....

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Tue, 08/11/2015 - 23:27

<<< something wrong with his 14 year old dog he took with him, and that he was bringing him home, that he had collapsed on a short walk, and his back legs weren't working. I dearly love this dog, and his vet is just around the corner from me. I called the vet, got an appointment for him, and texted BF with the appointment time for that day. The next thing I know....here comes BF with the dog, who jumps out of the truck and runs to me...with the energy of a puppy. BF says, well, he must have just been depressed, missing his family (>>>>>

My H does the same thing. He'll call me up and say that one of our dogs is doing really badly in order to get me to come home. He'll say that I'm a "bad mommy' if I don't come home right away. This is his way of saying that HE wants me to come home, without actually saying so.

Yes, my H also says that he wants to talk to the therapist first so that I don't "bash" him.

As far as your BF expecting you to PAY him for stuff, I would remind him that any "payments" will go directly towards "his half" of the living expenses in the home....rent, utilities, food, etc. .

need your perspective

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 08/13/2015 - 09:18

Good morning Overwhelmedwife, I hope you are having a good day. I really need a fresh pair of eyes to read a comment from a "Doc T", who chalks up BF's behavior to misunderstandings and caregiver burnout, and says it looks like I'm not planning to show BF "any mercy". I was scratching my head and doubting myself after I read it. It is located several comments below. Thanks so much for your input.

Sure, where is the Doc T post?

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 08/15/2015 - 00:38

>> Good morning Overwhelmedwife, I hope you are having a good day. I really need a fresh pair of eyes to read a comment from a "Doc T", who chalks up BF's behavior to misunderstandings and caregiver burnout, and says it looks like I'm not planning to show BF "any mercy". I was scratching my head and doubting myself after I read it. It is located several comments below. Thanks so much for your input.>>>

Where is it?

thanks OW

Submitted by sickandtired on Sat, 08/15/2015 - 15:04

If you scroll way down on this thread, you will find 2 posts Doc T left for me...titled "Dear Sick and Tired" and "Professional Help". Doc T has only commented on my posts, has not shared his own story anywhere on the site, and had signed up to this website only about an hour before he started commenting on my post. He has not commented on any other person's posts, and it is curious to me that he has so many misspellings and grammar errors to be a real"doc" with"48 years of practice". He also has a habit of incorrectly capitalizing common nouns like "the Hospital".......just like BF does. I just can't figure out why both Lori67 and Doc T only are focusing on my posts...there are plenty of other people on here that need help that are in much worse situations than I am...why just focus on me?

Nice Try (eye roll )

Submitted by kellyj on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 11:19

Help me....the dog is injured!

Remain calm, while I complain about you with this list of grievances I've been stewing over and working on the entire time I was gone and I just couldn't stand it any more so I had to make up some excuse to get you in the same room with me so I could down load all of my shame and anxiety onto you for 9 hours no matter how crazy and irrational as it sounds to make myself feel better and use you as a human toilet for all this negativity that you built up inside me which is all your fault for making me go through this ordeal in the first place by pointing out something I have done wrong (or even implied or insinuated...how dare you in the first place!) which made me lock myself in my room for 3 days and then take the dog and leave and have to endure this entire drama that you made me do.

How could you do this to me!!!!!!??????? (sob, sob....I'm heart broken....tears, sorrow, agony)

And by the way.....you owe me for the work I've done, I just forgot to tell you that I was charging you for what I owe you for rent and my end of living with you. Pay up bitch! errrrrrrrrr

And this whole thing is all your brothers fault, if he hadn't done what he did..... none of this would have a happened and we (but most importantly ) I, would be just fine now.

Just wait until I see him again.....I give him a thing or two!!!!

LOL

Right

Right ON

Submitted by sickandtired on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 10:00

I have to laugh at your description or synopsis of BF. I love the way your first paragraph is one HUGE long run-on sentence, because it pretty much captured his style...no pauses for any give and take kind of communication with me, so he might see things from my point of view. He is so wrapped up in his anxiety and anger that he can't see what his behavior and words do to me, and to the dogs, because this is not the first time he took this 14 year old sweet dog on one of his runaway acting out outbursts. He even threatened one time last year to WALK all the way to OKLAHOMA from here (AZ) because I own both of our 2 vehicles, but then he said he decided not to, because he didn't think his then 13 year old dog could make it walking that far......OMG!!!!! Talk about guilt tripping and catastrophizing!!!!!! BUT.....it's just a matter of time until he puts this poor old dog through something similar to this that he won't be able to survive. If that were to happen, of course it would be my fault. Years ago, he got in some real estate dispute where he had agreed to sell his house, but then backed out at the last minute, and then weeks later, his dog died, and he told me the potential buyer's realtor had poisoned him....unbelievably awful, huh? Well, after years of hearing this story, one day he slipped and said that he SUSPECTED they did that, and wasn't really sure that the dog even died of poisoning. WOW! What a big assumption he made with no real proof of even how that poor dog died. That realtor was probably frustrated because BF changed his mind after signing a contract, but that is pretty much what I experienced with BF during my inheritance lawsuit. He would fight for something, then change his mind after everyone else thought we had worked it out, wanting more. No wonder the attorneys all called him "a problem".

I never wanted to have children, J, and I didn't. But now, living with him is like having an angry 15 year old to corral.

Thanks SO MUCH for your input J, this is the first time have laughed and smiled in days.

Laughter is Good For the Soul;)

Submitted by kellyj on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 11:24

If all else fails, right? lol

My first wife (if you can call her that....I tend not to see my first marriage a marriage except on paper lol) Had some of this kind of behavior herself. She had real issues with road rage and hated people who would tail gate her. I get a call from her (in tears) saying to come home there's been an accident. Where? 200 ft from our house on our street. Okay? Thinking...how is this possible? I get there and see my truck being lifted off the hood of a small compact car with the rear tires completely off the ground and the small compact car under neath the entire rear of my truck. There are no intersections or cross streets in this stretch and no reason to suddenly stop in the middle of the road. Suspicious? I'll say.

So I ask her "what happened"??????? She says " a dog ran across the road and this stupid bitch behind me was trying to pass me and was speeding and I had to slam the brakes on to avoid hitting the dog." Me thinking "mmmmm, not so much from what I know about you." She then tells me that a cop even ticketed the girl for following too close as proof that she was in the right.....but the cop had the nerve to tell me that since he wasn't there....this is all he could see but if he had been there to witness this accident....he would have given ME the ticket instead. What and asshole.....some nerve!!"

I said to her straight up " did you slam the brakes on because you were pissed that this girl was tail gating you?" Eh, er "NO."

I knew exactly what happened because I had been in the car with her many times to see what she did. People would tail gate her and she would start slowing down more and more to hold them up. When this impatient teen age girl was behind her she tried to pass (not a wise move on her part ) but....when she punched it to go around my ex.....my ex slammed the brakes on and there was so much force involved that the girl accelerated so hard into my 4 x4 truck that it lifted the entire truck off the ground and the girls car was forced down under neath it and the truck came to rest squarely on top of the car hood. The trailer hitch on my truck actually punched a hole through the hood and the two vehicles were locked together into this position. The speed limit is 35 mph along this stretch but there was a lot more force than that to get this to happen unless what I said was the case. It was obvious!!!

"And that asshole cop had some nerve!!! They're all assholes and are just there to make my life a living hell just like that stupid teenage bitch who hit me. I wish they would all just die!"

Right lol

PS....I have my issues with ADHD and all.....but this and the things you are describing about your BF are not one of them....for what it's worth for anyone who's trying to figure out what is ADHD and what is not. Just to be sure:)

WTF!!!

Submitted by sickandtired on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 14:41

Hi J,

Wow that was a funny story about your first wife and the 'stupid bitch" that ran under her truck...they only see the things in life that support their arguments that they are the victim. I have so many instances of stuff like that with BF. But you are right, there is a lot more than just adhd going on with him. The marriage counselor suspected bi-polar, but I've been reading about Narcissistic personality disorder, and avoidant personality disorder, histrionic PD, paranoid pd...a lot of those symptoms fit him. I studied psychology in college, and I know that in the DSM IV, a diagnosis is only met if a person has at least a minimum number of symptoms listed that are interfering with their everyday life, ("at least 5 of the following criteria must be met:"), and BF meets almost all of the criteria for all of these disorders I listed. I can't say he has been lying or cheating, however, but he may be... I just don't know. My X-H who was an airline pilot, had been cheating by getting on BDSM websites and meeting women, then flying there, tying them up and fucking them for years without me knowing, so anything is possible.

I had a very pleasant surprise this morning....an old dear college (go OSU!!) friend of mine called. I lost touch with her several years ago, but she did get to spend a lot of time with me and BF when we were first dating. I told her the whole story, and of course, she agreed that he is has some serious emotional problems, not fixable since he is in such deep denial, and that I should start a new (healthy) life without him. She said one thing I thought that was very wise, she said I need to quit arguing with him on the basis of logic, because his attitude, words, and behaviors are all emotionally based, not logically based, and you can't "reason with" a person like this to convince them that they are fucking up, no matter how terrible their words and actions are. They are not thinking with the rational cognitive part of their brain...they are on a more primitive, emotional, "fight or flight" level....and that so true, because I tried to reason with him "your words X, Y and Z were offensive, and your behaviors a, b and c were hurtful", but you can't communicate cognitive ideas to an emotionally driven person. You just end up being more frustrated and angry, when they come back with angry accusations and blame shifting, and if they drive you to lose your temper, then they have ammo to use against you that YOU have the problem. This makes sense, because when I tried to talk about this with him, I always got a fight, or a runaway "I'm going to kill myself" flight.

My good friend has divorced her husband of over 25 years since we both spoke, and she has been in my place being blamed for everything and living with a chronically angry unreasonable man, so she is going to help support me in my quest for a sane, peaceful life and independence from BF. I told her about posting on this site, and all of the helpful people on here, and she said to keep reading and posting and sharing with others who have been there, Like I did, my friend said that she started to doubt herself until she opened her eyes to what was really going on...only to discover that her angry and immature acting X-H was Gaslighting her...while cheating on her....with other MEN.

I Think the Bigger Issue

Submitted by kellyj on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 16:28

in all of this...including your BF, your ex and your friends ex (OMG!! That would be a wake up call) is the denial. Not knowing any better and denial are related but still different I think. I didn't know I had ADHD and couldn't explain certain things. If you don't know and you think you are normal and just like everyone else....that's still a form of denial since you refuse to accept that you are different because you believe that your just "creatively individual". ha ha Not so much. lol I always knew I was a little different but I still didn't try and pretend I wasn't or create an alternative universe to live in. I think I can say I mostly lived in this one for the most part and have always thought that I was just bug splat on the windshield of the cosmos just like everyone else.

I think a better way to describe the kind of denial that you are talking about is more deferring than denying. Deferring to some belief or view of yourself and the world that is more fictional than it is reality to avoid the pain of what is real to the point that you lose touch with what is real after a while and it would be devastating to face the fact that what you believe is no longer true. The house of cards would come crashing down if that happened and you would be left without any reference or foundation to work from. I think that goes beyond just not wanting see the things that you don't like about yourself because they would cause you to feel embarrassed or ashamed.

My T said it would be "tantamount to annihilation" to do this for someone who is so severely invested in this way of thinking about themselves and in this kind of denial. I've had my moments like this of utter despair but I have managed my way back out of this kind of thinking. I think the fear is realizing that they aren't who they thought they were on top of being disconnected or separated from their emotions and the real world of fact rather than fiction.

I'm still holding to "bug splat on the windshield of the cosmos"......that seems to work pretty well for me. lol

The one thing you said earlier about losing your own sense of what is real and doubting or second guessing yourself is a very real and uncomfortable place to be in. I've been there before and has more to do with any issues I have had to over come than anything else. It was the environment I was raised in and this is a by product of being enmeshed or in a relationship with someone who is like this. Look at this way.....their dysphoria become you dysphoria too when you are connected emotionally with someone who is not connected to themselves emotionally or is in denial If they are living a lie so to speak and you believe them.....things get really confusing.

I think I can understand why a person with ADHD is so difficult to be with from having this experience. Even if it's not like your BF (other comorbid issues)....it still has an effect on what you know or are use to with other people that can still throw you off balance. I think a person with ADHD needs to come to this realization that this is happening with other people even if they themselves can get a sense of why this is. I still can't know exactly what this is like but...I have other experiences that could be similar to prove this too me none the less. I think that's all you need to know to be able to do something about it but first you have to accept this much to begin with. For me once I was diagnosed.....this in itself was not such a difficult concept to grasp.

What this denial really reminds of most.....are two opposing political party candidates going at it in a debate. Two idealistic and contrived ideologies that are polar opposites of one another. It's not the candidates that are opposed...it's the ideology and different beliefs that are fighting against one another and an endless circular battle for control over the other one. I think for your BF.....this is going on inside his head and has less to do with ADHD and more to do with denial. I think (without knowing this for sure)...that the glitches in our hardwiring may predispose someone to end up like this but there is no guarantee that someone with ADHD will? That's my guess at least? ADHD doesn't cause beliefs or distortions in thinking. I don't think kids with ADHD are born this way and that has more to do with nurture than nature if I'm not mistaken but I could be wrong there too?

You're on to something there...

Submitted by sickandtired on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 17:27

Yes, I think your last few sentences explain what might be going on here with BF. Maybe as a little adhd kid, he got on his parents' nerves, and his dad, being so righteously into the "spare the rod spoil the child" cult, was embarrassed in front of all of his church buddies (he was a Deacon, and church is still his social club) by BF's hyperactive kid behaviors, so he "prayed about it", but never took him to a counselor to get any professional help or diagnosis. He decided to just beat the adhd out of him, which led to the personality disorder, whichever specific subtype(s) BF actually has.

One thing BF was able to explain to me is that made sense was about when I said "please don't put your tools on the dining room table any more". BF said when he was a kid, that his dad would come home from work every day, angry, and would take his anger out on him by doing a military sounding "inspection" of the house to make sure the kids had done their chores...so he would go throughout the house, and find something out of place, and then yell at his son BF and then beat him because of it. So it was like a big negative flashback to BF when I made my request about the dining room table, like next I would beat him over it. Wow, this is getting kinda Freudian here, but I think that in his subconscious, the scary all powerful omnipotent authority figure is no longer his dad..... it is ME.

Bingo, You Nailed It

Submitted by kellyj on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 20:33

the scary all powerful omnipotent authority figure is no longer his dad..... it is ME.....and the police, and politicians, and all authority figures. Right on the money! The problem (as I understand it) is he's still living that reality in his head......somewhere buried in there that he buried so deep he isn't even aware of it and blocked out of his memory. Anything that touches that place in his subconscious gets hijacked into never land and gets spit back out in the form of all that anger and rage. You have to feel sorry for him really. As much as this affects you.....you and I have no idea what that would be like. Actually....I have a milder idea of this because I experienced the same scenario but not nearly as extreme and severe. I get mad just thinking about his father and the connection to the church. How fucked up is that!

What is the quote from the bible......"the devil does his finest work through the church" or something or another...don't flame me if I didn't get that exactly right or the source but I have my own feelings along those lines myself. The bible didn't get it wrong....the people who interpret it are the problem. My T said once that he has a number of gay clients whose entire life have been ruined by this kind of thing. He said it was this kind of thing in his mind that cause so much pain for so many people. If you don't fit the mold.....your going to hell. I reject this reality and substitute my own in this case.....a little kinder version that includes everyone. Jesus had the right idea.....the rest of it is pure bull shit. Three cheers for Catholicism and pedophile Priests! sorry ....I digress:)

Anyway. lol Yes, you took the words right out my T's mouth. This omnipotent being that we all know intuitively from birth is our parents first and foremost. Later....we translate that into God or what have you but.....if God/Dad is an abusive Narcissist then this will surely result in some problems down the road if these things do not get resolved or.....are so bad they get buried and never come to the surface again cognitively and are running interference for the rest of your life. You got it!

( I suddenly had a flashback to Woody Allens "Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex" where the priest is caught in the guilt center of the guys head and was messing with his ability to get an erection. I can picture Burt Reynolds and Tony Randell in the control room smoking cigarettes at the end of this skit once the priest was taken out of the program and all systems were go! lol)

The reason I know this was from my encounter with madam X the BPD/APD. My T explained this in depth with me in an effort to both....gain some compassion and to resolve my own anger towards her. I had a conversation with her brother later down the road and he retold me most of what happened to her in the reality version...not the one I heard. Her father was a strict Mormon and he molested her since she was 8 or 9 years old. He started seeing prostitutes at age 15 and developed a sex addiction which included running a sex shop that the family never knew about as his day job was a Plummer. His brother (her uncle) did the same things with one of his daughters (WTF was up with that family?) And these guys were some high mucky mucks in the Mormon Temple where she grew up. He use to bring prostitutes home and have sex with them in his own bed he shared with her mother and she finally took X away when she found out what was happening. X didn't remember most of it until her mother died at which time her father told her about it when they were at the funeral. Way to go Dad on that one.....not enough to let sleeping dogs lie, lets dredge that up to get that off your chest so you can relieve some of that guilt with no regard for how your own daughter might feel about that at her own mothers funeral. What a psychopath! In this case....the sins of the father really did get passed on and as these things go sometimes......she became just like him.

Bottom line as my T explained this.....if you can't find any escape from this kind of thing and it goes on too long and is that severe without some sanity interceding into it.....this is where things start crossing into disorders rather than some excess baggage that can get resolved through therapy.

For someone with ADHD who has parents that are very rigid and strict like this.....it becomes a travesty that might have otherwise been avoided with a more evolved and emotionally intelligent person. And they make these guys heads of the church. Jesus. No really....Jesus!!

advice

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 08/13/2015 - 09:16

Good morning J, can you do me a favor and read Doc T's comment below and please tell me what you think? Thanks.

Very Well Balanced and Compassionate

Submitted by kellyj on Thu, 08/13/2015 - 16:23

As I read what Dr T had to say, I found myself wishing more ladies on this forum would read some of the things he was saying to you. The part about reading comments here on the forum and only getting one side of things is a solid and profound statement. Trying to get advise from me or anyone else here is going to be biased at the very least. I did not get that from the things he was saying and I also wanted to point out that....if you recall.....I definitely have my own bias's concerning my experience which did resonate with me from some of the things you have said. This doesn't mean that my experience (with X) can directly translate to what is going on with your BF. Even my T said that this was an extreme case in all that he's seen. The vast majority of people who walk into his office are not like the person I am describing. He also had the chance to meet her on a few occasions when I wanted us to go see him (and he wanted to meet her) from some of things I had told him. What I was and have been passing along to you is just my account of this one experience and some of the things that my T has said (and I have learned on a whole). he also pointed out to me which I have not said is that most of her behavior and the people she was associated with were those of a long term drug addicts (the stealing and con artist behavior) and resulting events that took place with me were mostly due to that more than anything else. I also wanted to point out that I also found out after the fact....that X had been doing this kind of thing for many years and I was just one in a string of men she had played and stolen from like she did. In essence.....this was a professional con artist who also had an extreme character disorder. My relationship with her was no relationship as far as she was concerned. I was a "mark" and was played in a long-con plain and simple. I interviewed dozens of people in my attempts to get information that might help me recover my losses who pretty much verified this to me right from the beginning.

Part of the reason I have become so familiar with a lot of this kind of behavior was because I was no naive and trusting which was exactly what X was looking for. The fact that she did have a character disorder and all the other behaviors I described made it possible for her to do these things to other people (and me) but that doesn't mean that everyone who has a character disorder is going to behave like this one individual and if anything.....the things I have to offer you ( or anyone else) from what I learned is only a word of warning to others and possibly some things to look out for to use to identify a pattern of behavior that might not be good for you even if it's not in such an extreme version of what I experienced.

So....since I've said a lot about my own experience and related it to your BF in my own fairly biased and highly opinionated way lol....I think what Dr T said is a better place to start since he makes some really good observations. Obviously....I have made some references that you recognize in your BF that you appear to see yourself and you are still troubled or conflicted at this point. Without completely back pedaling here with you (since I'm pretty solid in my own experience at least and the things that my T has taught me ) I still see some things that do concern me about your BF that do stand out here. I think it might be good for you to weigh the things that everyone has said and see what falls out onto the floor and look at those things more closely. Your the only one who knows everything there is to know and right now at least.....it appears you are running up against something that is causing to you to question yourself and vacillate a little or perhaps....something is still not fitting into what you are seeing or feeling that is just not sitting right? I'm getting that from your response to Dr T?

From what you've said.....this is what I see.

He quit his last job a few months after he moved in with me, over 10 years ago. My best friend and my niece have heard him say derogatory things about me, and they both say I am verbally abused Taking your nieces comments or opinion about the ticking time bomb part out of this....and weighing it against the things that Dr T has said.......I would ask yourself why? Ten years is a good long time to find a job but you've also been with him and supported him for that long too? Why have you done this for so long and still been Okay with it......and why hasn't he tried to go get a job? You already said there was a trade off in support but I think it's not usual for a man to not want to contribute or be productive and that really could be a big reason for his anger but.....he also is really harboring a lot of anger towards your brother and this had to do with money. That does seem to be his focus and why he wants to kill him as he threatens at least?

You also have said several times that what you fear most is that he will kill himself not physically from him in fear that he will hurt you yet ....he appears angry about a lot of things and is harboring a lot of anger and resentment (displaced anger) from anything that he perceives as a slight or offense that is directed at him. Anger and suspicion does appear to be a common theme in the things you've said?

I think that the abuse he has had in his life is a big part of this and that may be something that will not be resolved if he doesn't get some help with that? I think this might be a big part of and the denial like I was saying but another denial may be that he does realize that he has a problem enough that he is not going to find a job that he can keep from past experience with this. He mostly sounds bitter and angry and oppositional/defiant and is not very passive aggressive and pretty overt in his behavior. You don't seem to suspicious or unclear yourself in what and why he does what he does. Unless that is what you are unsure of.....then what you see is what you got I think.

If anything and maybe the advise that you need is to go see someone who can help you sort this out for yourself instead of trying to figure him out? It sounds like you have but you could be in some denial of your own and why you are conflicted here? I'm not being contrary either.....including what Dr T has said.....your denial may just not being able to accept that he isn't going to change and you wish he would so you could be together but deep down you already know that this isn't probably going to happen. It sounds like you have already covered those bases already with him and still nothing has changed.

If you are sure he is no threat to you personally and you are only afraid for his safety or of his suicide.....you need to face the facts that if this is a real concern and he does do this......you have to deal with this on your end and not let that be the reason for leaving him if he's an abusive person and he's not good for you. It really doesn't sound like he is or that he is not going to live being angry and resentful and be a victim all his life. You can't change that for him and nothing you do is going to make a difference if you have already done what you can to help him in that way and not have that play into your emotions from your sister? A person cannot manipulate you if they don't have something ot use as leverage against you or some power over you or weakness that they can use to do this?

I'm still a little worried about this revenge thing he has going. If that's your fear then you need to nail that down too?

Here's one last thing that I wanted to say in general about being a victim. I can easily be one myself and have had my moments in the past. At this time I see things pretty clearly regarding my own past and how I feel about this with other people. Any abuse that someone has while growing up (as a child) makes them a victim in the real sense of the word. You have to have compassion for any child who has to grow up with this experience because they are completely helpless and dependent on a care giver to survive and support them (food, shelter, clothing etc) There's little a child can do to get away from this and they are forced to trade off something of themselves in exchange for getting the basic necessities of life and to stay alive. That's a true victim.

But at some point in time when you are old enough to get these things for yourself......you stop being a victim anymore in the real sense of the word. The compassion for this person is for the child that they were when this happened to them but they can't keep using that as a means not to move out of the past and into present and the future. Time waits for no one including your BF. If he is not longer being abused by you or anyone else.....he is not a victim any more. The victim is in the past and that past is long gone.

PS....sounds like what you really need is an unbiased opinion from someone you can trust. I think every comment that myself or anyone else makes here on this forum does not have a little "venting" involved no matter how reasonable they sound. That incudes me! lol

thanks

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 08/13/2015 - 17:32

I guess I am so confused, I just want to be SURE that I have done everything I can to help him, and I have said pretty much the exact things you said many times to BF:

There's little a child can do to get away from this and they are forced to trade off something of themselves in exchange for getting the basic necessities of life and to stay alive. That's a true victim.

I remember one time when we still lived in OK, we were in a store, and BF ran around to the aisle where I was, with my cart half full of stuff, and frantically said, "We've got to get out of here!!!", running up to me and grabbing my arm to get me to run out with him. I barely had time to grab my purse and he said to just leave my cart and RUN! I was thinking that maybe it was one of those horrible shootings about to go down...I was terrified, and when we got into the parking lot, I kept asking him "What's wrong?? What is it!?!" Turns out that BF thought he saw his parents in the store. At that time he had been estranged from them over 10 years, but poor BF still lives in the past when he was under the thumb of a cruel father and a distant domineering mother...AND...all that church BS. In the car I said to him, "I would like to meet them, or at least me go back inside and just look at them because I am curious, but really, why don't you come back inside and maybe we could talk, and get some of this behind you all." At the time I did not know the extent of all the abuse, so looking back now, it seemed incredibly naive on my part. Of course he said no, and we went to another store to buy the same groceries, never to see the parents again..

I guess I have had my answer all along that it is child abuse that scarred and tormented the man that I fell in love with, and his survival mechanisms that he learned as a toddler are so ingrained in him that he thinks everybody goes around with that hopeless sense of doom or imminent danger or whatever it is. You said once that people who have not experienced it don't know what goes on in a child abuse victim's head....I have been trying to get him to act and think like a child abuse SURVIVOR, but maybe I have been too direct, too forceful...no matter how gentle or diplomatically i have tried to bring up the fact that he needs help to cope with this so it no longer is allowed to impact him so negatively, he probably hears something like, "Get OVER this bullshit goddammit!!! You are ruining our lives!".

Maybe..

Submitted by kellyj on Thu, 08/13/2015 - 18:12

what he needs is what he didn't have. For you to love him exactly the way he is. If you focus on just that and be the opposite of what he fears the most.....controlling, distant, authoritarian, demanding of him or shining a light on how he fails you......you might surprise him and gain his trust to be more open with you? Just a thought.

Being a positive, loving supportive force in his life (consistantly) long enough to get him out his negative angry cycle in his head might prove to be the exact thing he needs and what you want yourself. Maybe when you first met him it was hyper focus but you also said he changed to being angry all the time after that. If the two of you are co-dependent with each other....you both are playing tug of war in trying to get what you want from each other and not sharing it together. The "drowning victim" analogy is a good one to use if this is what is happening with him. A drowning person isn't going to be very empathetic until they get a life preserver thrown to them and don't feel like they are near death and can catch their breath and feel safe enough to relax once they know they aren't going under. If you go swimming out to rescue a person like this.....they are likely to grab a hold of you and pull you down with them. You can understand if a person does this under those circumstances and no one is going to blame a person for drowning you too if that were to happen.

Maybe the life presever he needs from you right now are exactly what I said?

perfect analogy

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 08/13/2015 - 18:54

That is an analogy I can really get into because I was a desperate drowning person once, literally. I was drinking at a pool party at a friend's parents' house during the college years. I cannot swim a lick, and have a substantial fear of deep water. I hold on to the edge of the hot tub to this day, that's how bad it is. Anyway, at the party after a few drinks-n-tokes, my friends decided they could teach me to swim...they persuaded me to climb up on the pool slide, and just slide into the pool, where my trusted close friend who was a 6 ft tall female lifeguard, would be waiting to catch me and show me how there's nothing to fear.....oh pipe dreams.....The reality was that when I slid down and hit the water, I totally panicked and she had to struggle with me to keep me from injuring her as I desperately tried to climb up her like a tree. A couple of the guys had to jump in to pull us both to the shallow water before I would let go of the death grip I had on her. After it was all over, and i knew i wasn't gonna die that day, I looked over at her, and I was shocked and so ashamed to see how she had cuts and scratches all over her arms and legs where my long fingernails and toenails had dug into her. She was crying, but I couldn't even see that I had hurt her so badly because I was fighting for survival, and she was my only life preserver at that moment. She was very forgiving, and called me Wildcat after that.

The same is true for BF, and it explains why he doesn't see how much pain I am in, because inside he is fighting for his life, and until he feels some sense of relief or safety, a soft place to fall, he won't see the pain he has caused, or should I say, handed down from his asshole father. I have tried to provide that sort of environment in the past, but I have lost patience since my fall, so I imagine I have been bitchy and stern with him, so i know I can do better. I don't want to be a bitch to him with no patience only judgment. I want my friend and soul mate back.

Thank you so much for giving me a way to understand what we are doing to each other. BTW, BF emailed me, more calm, and said he would try to find a new couples counselor to work our problems out with. I am hopeful that by him choosing a counselor, he might be more likely to feel safer, like we are not all ganging up on him... Thanks again.

I'm Glad That Helped

Submitted by kellyj on Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:41

FYI: I was a lifeguard for 4 years in college during the summer. In the red cross safety water rescue class you have to take.....1/4 of the class is learning how to rescue someone.....the other 3/4 of the class is how to escape and rescue yourself when someone does what you did. The first and last thing they teach you and the cardinal rule.....the last thing you do is to swim out and try and rescue someone face to face without some kind of floatation device with you that you can throw to them first. The first thing you do if all else fails and you are sinking and running out of energy......save yourself. From what you said.....I think you can understand why:)

I completely agree...

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 08/15/2015 - 00:49

<<< ADHD doesn't cause beliefs or distortions in thinking. I don't think kids with ADHD are born this way and that has more to do with nurture than nature if I'm not mistaken but I could be wrong there too?<<<

I am a firm believer that inadequate parenting (either one or both parents ) makes the difference in whether a person is going to have a mild case or severe case. If a parent is an inadequate parent, particularly the primary parent, a child who is predisposed to ADHD is going to have a severe case.

My H's mom did not want to do the work involved with "raising children." When H proved to be a very difficult child, instead of being active or pro-active, she just had him drugged with Rx's. No discipline or guidance whatsoever.

Dark Triad

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 08/15/2015 - 00:35

I had never heard of that and looked it up on Wiki

The dark triad [1] is a group of three personality traits: narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy.[2][3][4] Use of the term "dark" implies that these traits have malevolent qualities:[5][6][7][8]

Narcissism is characterized by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy.[9]
Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulation and exploitation of others, a cynical disregard for morality, and a focus on self-interest and deception.[10]
Psychopathy is characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callousness, and remorselessness.[11]
All three traits have been associated with a callous-manipulative interpersonal style.[12] A factor analysis carried out at the Glasgow Caledonian University found that among the big five personality traits, low agreeableness is the strongest correlate of the dark triad, while neuroticism and a lack of conscientiousness were associated with some of the dark triad members.[10]"

Wikipedia

Dear Sick and Tired

Submitted by Betrayed on Wed, 08/12/2015 - 22:12

I read about your problems. you mentioned a paramedic helped you get out of the car, how did your boyfriend get you to the hospital, was it the neighbor that moved you to the car after your boyfriend turned it around because you did not mentioned who moved you to the car, if it was your boyfriend he might have felt if he got you to the hospital safely that he could get you home safely, sometimes paramedics and hospital workers don't take the care that someone who knows you might. I have known patients who suffered serious injuries in the hospital when a nurse did not pay attention to their situation. People die in the Hospital all the time from poor practices in the hospital mostly infections but sometimes just moving a patient.

Being a caregiver is very stressful when you have no ability to stop the persons pain your caring for, it can be very frustrating caring for someone 24 hours a day without a break, most professionals do an 8 hr shift.

10 years is a good investment in a relationship, it is easy for someone not in your shoes to say end it.

It is always easy to get people to take sides with you against a mate but usually there is 2 sides to every story, your boyfriend probably has lost his dignity if you are paying all the bills unless he is just a lazy bum.

Does he have any retirement saved up? how does he plan to survive in his 80s if he does not have a nest egg.

It sounds like he is worried about his future and angry about the situation he is in unless he has a savings account or something to retire on. If he feels the relationship might end he should worry about planning for his future either working for someone else or working for you. If he has no ownership in anything he works on and you dump him 10 or 15 years down the line where does he stand. It sounds like he is being wise to worry about his future considering the condition of your relationship.

Also does he have a history of lying to you? when he said his dog was having problems it sounds like the dog is old and could have problems, how would you feel if you found out he was telling the truth, Why don't you take the dog for a long walk and test what he said. It is easy to assume the worst of someone and be wrong sometimes.

If he has no money and no retirement and spends the last working years of his life improving your property then you decide to leave him high and dry he is pretty much either toast or at your mercy and it sounds like you don't plan on showing him any mercy. I think if I put myself in such a situation I would extremely worried for my future and want to try and build some security for myself.

Put yourself in his shoes, he was abused by parents who had all the money and control and now he fears you because you have that power over him. It is understandable that he would want to earn some money for himself either working for you or someone else. Since you are not married to him it would be like he is working a job depositing his earnings into an account for his retirement that is not in his name but instead in your name. The shaky condition of your relationship makes that a risky gamble for him.

If he is such a horrible person why did it take 10 years for you to decide this? did you need him in the beginning but don't need him now because you are wealthy, or were you always wealthy because you mentioned him taking 3 /12 years to complete a bathroom remodel so I figured he was doing it to save you money when you were not wealthy.

It is easy for people online to comment hearing one side of a story when usually there is their side and your side and then the way it really is. At least that is the experience I have had in 48 years of practice.

I find communication usually breaks down in relationships as relationships get older and that starts causing assumptions on both parties part.

I would suggest spending more time apart and for your boyfriend to focus on building his own retirement for his own good, then you can determine if the relationship can be salvaged.

I just hate seeing a relationship end because of misunderstandings or mis communications but I can certainly understand his feelings being a man depending on a woman in a bad relationship when he is worried about how he will survive when he is too old to work.

Thank you

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 08/13/2015 - 10:22

Dr. T,

I really appreciate your kind and thoughtful words. I have thought the same thing, trying to put myself in his shoes, and I guess I have been so perplexed and scared by his unpredictable anger and escalating verbal abuse and temper tantrums, and it is very hard for me to see why he gets so angry over little, petty things that most people take in stride...Is there some kind of male menopause or something like that? Is it normal for a 58 year old man to lock himself in his room all day and all night, sneaking food in there so he doesn't have to come out to eat or interact with me? I remained calm and never got angry, and his reaction seemed way disproportionate to the situation. Especially when the issue of contention was me asking him (nicely) to just take his tools off the dining room table?

I would have more faith in him if he would seek help himself or at least give therapy a chance. I have tried to get him into therapy, but he only went 4 times to marriage counseling, and twice with another therapist. he said he does not see the point of therapy. I got him to go to a psychiatrist once or maybe twice, but he quit taking the anti-depressants that were prescribed and he doesn't want to go back, saying the meds had no effect. i explained to him how it takes a couple of weeks for the meds to kick in, but he quit taking them.

I love him and want to help him, but all I know to do is get him to go to therapy. I want him to be happy, not miserable and afraid of me, which he says he is.

I have tried many times to get him to just get out of the house for the day to go work on the other house, since he started so many projects, but it is like he always wants to be by my side, like he is not comfortable without me right there, and of course, if you live like this, it can cause everyday friction. I do feel sorry for him, and i guess this last attempt at helping him has been a "tough love" approach, because i think i have tried everything else.

You asked some important questions, like if we had money when he started the bathroom. Yes we did, so his reason to do it himself was not to save money. He said nobody can do the work as well as he would do it.

I don't think he has ever lied to me. I can't test whether or not the old dog actually has leg problems during a long walk because I am not able to take a long walk. I have arthritis, degenerative disk disease, heart disease, and my ankles have still not totally healed from my fall. I am pushing my body to the limit just having to bend down multiple times each day to pick up the dogs' 5 bowls and feed them.

You asked if he's such a terrible person, why did I go so long and choose now to deal with this by breaking up or whatever. i guess the answer is that he was not like this at all when I first met him...he was too good to be true, volunteered to do everything for me, was kind and considerate and seemed to enjoy his life. i don't know if it was just the hyper-focus of new love, or if i just did not see the warning signs.

When he tried to help me in my inheritance lawsuit is where the trouble began. it was like a switch was turned on, and he went from lover to fighter, and has never switched back even though all issues in the lawsuit were settled two years ago. he still fantasizes about killing my brother, and does not recognize at all how much that kind of talk totally stresses me out, and makes me feel guilt and fear, like how could i live with myself if I brought someone into my life that actually killed my brother?? I have to take him at his word because he says it so seriously and so often and with such vitriol, that it is obvious that he has a lot of rage just under the surface and he has a need to attach it to someone and that is scary.

I had to call the police on him in 2009 because he got himself so worked up, raging about the lawsuit, waving a gun around saying he had googled my brother's house, and planned to hide in a bush across the street and shoot him and his girlfriend when they come out of their front door. I took him back because I felt sorry for him after the police found him and said they felt like he is no threat. Years later, he was stopped by a cop for speeding. I was there and I saw that he was not really above the speed limit... so I know he was unfairly ticketed, but later i found out he googled where the officer lived, in case he "felt like revenge on this guy some day", he said. Well, that sort of thinking scares me.

I thought if we moved out of the state we could have a fresh start with new people, and we could leave all our troubles behind. That did not work, and he started finding fault in people we met, and we have lost friends because of it. He got in a big argument over something insignificant with my friend's husband, and it was so awkward, that she and I have had trouble keeping our friendship, because he hates her husband so much. He sees a lot of people as bullies when the really are not.

The paramedic, for example, was one of our best friends, but my BF was already saying unfounded negative comments about him before I ever fell. Since I broke my leg it is like I have seen another side of him that scares me, because basically if I am sick or in pain, he is meaner and less patient with me than at times when i am feeling better. I had to call my friends to help us the night I fell because my BF was just not rational, having a nervous breakdown before my eyes, saying he wanted to kill himself, in a frenzy, and he was not fully able to care for me that night. And yes, my BF was the one who carried me down the steps to his truck to take me to the ER, he would not let me call 911 because he doesn't trust professionals to do their jobs, thinking he can do better. He said things similar to what you did, He carried me down the steps OK, so why shouldn't he be able to carry me into the house?

I did 24/7 care with no other help for both my elderly parents for almost 5 years at the end of their lives, fighting off predators who tried to get to their money and pain pills. Mom had severe rheumatoid arthritis and glaucoma and colonized pseudomonis in both lungs, and dad had dementia, but was very physically active, and my brother enabled him, by refusing to help me take his car keys away, and dad was in several accidents, even running a mother with her baby off the road while attempting to pass her, so I know it can be stressful to be a caregiver. I guess I don't understand why right from the beginning of my accident and recovery, he was cold, angry and scolding me for falling, and he only did the basics, bringing me food, lifting me out of the wheelchair and taking me to appointments. NO hugs, NO kind words, NO empathy right from the start. My physical therapist picked up on his coldness. I could understand if he got burnt out after a few weeks or months, but the fact that he treated me like he was disgusted that I was helpless right from the beginning spoke volumes to me that he does not care about me really.

He made me cut my niece and best friend out of my will because they said he was verbally abusive to me and they feared he was a ticking time bomb. He reads my emails looking for instances where I am talking about him. This started around 2 years ago.

He also started talking about younger women frequently, and would make many many comments about attractive women's figures, like waitresses when we are eating. He would talk incessantly about this one or that one, wondering if their boobs are fake or not, wondering what it would be like to kiss this one particular young waitress because she has a lip ring, etc. That sort of talk really hurt me, and I mentioned it to him several times, but he would just say "you're insecure" or "i was just kidding, you are too sensitive". I guess it really hurt me, that I have to be so sensitive for him, or he will run away threatening suicide or lock himself in his room all day, but he keeps on saying stuff like that when he knows it hurts me and makes me feel disrespected, and I can't say anything critical to him about his constant death fantasies about my brother. I just have to shut up and ignore that kind of talk and endure it quietly, because if I say anything, it starts a marathon fight with him that I don't want to be in and can't stop.

I I had offered to pay him for all the work he has done for me but he refused. I would never leave him destitute in his old age. He says he fears this, but what can I do? I have also tried to offer him a settlement, so to speak, where I give him the vacation house and a lump sum, or an income producing piece of property, but he will not take it.

I don't know what it is like to be a man, but I understand about the male pride of being the breadwinner, and I have encouraged him to seek work outside our home if he wants to, but mostly he just goes around and fixes stuff for our friends and refuses to take their money. He has some very generous good qualities like that...I just wish he would treat me as nice as he treats our friends.

I wanted to put his name on the deeds to the houses and bank accounts years ago, sharing everything with him as if we were married, but he said no, because he has a big unpaid credit card judgment against him from 20 years ago that now totals over $35,000, and he said that Discover card could take that out of any account or put a lien on any property that has his name on it. Now, he uses that against me, saying he has nothing and I have everything, but I honestly don't feel that that is my fault, since he quit his last job only a couple of months after he moved in with me.

I know he has a sense of general alienation. He says our friends are really my friends, that nobody really likes him, when in reality, he won't give most guys a chance to be his friend because he is scanning them for perceived insults. I have always had hope that he would mellow out, but he just gets a little worse each year, and since the fall everything has been a lot worse, so I have 2 choices that I can see: 1. allow him to just get worse and worse in his behavior to me and to others, and not confront him, or 2. confront him and intervene with some therapy, and hope he accepts it.

My big fear is that he might attempt suicide, and I would never forgive myself if that happened. He knows that my sister killed herself many years ago, and my family never got over it. My therapist says that is a huge manipulation on his part...to find my greatest tragedy, and then threaten to do it unless I give in to his demands.

Thank you again for taking the time to read my posts and respond to me. I was really impressed by your kind approach and empathy for him, and I would love to hear any suggestions you may have on the best way to really get through to him and help him. I have tried to list his behaviors, not to complain about them, but to create a list of symptoms of how he has changed in the past few years, not to bash him. I love him and want to help him, but i don't know how.

oh my....you dodged a bullet....

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sat, 08/15/2015 - 00:57

<<< I wanted to put his name on the deeds to the houses and bank accounts years ago, sharing everything with him as if we were married, but he said no, because he has a big unpaid credit card judgment against him from 20 years ago that now totals over $35,000, and he said that Discover card could take that out of any account or put a lien on any property that has his name on it.<<<

Thank goodness he realized one reason why you shouldn't add his name to anything. PLEASE do not add his name to ANYTHING. PLEASE.

>>>Now, he uses that against me, saying he has nothing and I have everything, but I honestly don't feel that that is my fault, since he quit his last job only a couple of months after he moved in with me.<<<<

That is just his guilt-trip. Let it go in one ear and out the other. Do not put anything in his name.

DocT: >>your boyfriend probably has lost his dignity if you are paying all the bills unless he is just a lazy bum.<<<

this is likely true, but the answer is NOT to put things in his name.

Professional help

Submitted by Betrayed on Sat, 08/15/2015 - 02:55

I would suggest to everyone on this website to seek help from a professional, it is unhealthy to vent anger on here when that is not finding a solution to your problems.

It is easy to find other angry people to agree with you on your husband or wife but even if you find 4 or 5 people in your shoes, your are not professionals to be making a diagnosis, and it does not make you right about the root of relationship problems.

If your here just to vent that's ok, but fueling the fires of others anger is not helpful to finding them a solution. If your unhappy, get out of the relationship because B itching about it only does harm to you physically if it becomes your new profession.

In other words to put it bluntly, either $ hit, or get off the pot.

Get professional help or end it, it is that simple, life is too short to be wasting your time and theirs.

hmmmm

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sun, 08/16/2015 - 00:58

<<<<

, it is unhealthy to vent anger on here when that is not finding a solution to your problems....

......If your here just to vent that's ok, ...

<<<<

Anywho....some of us are seeing therapists. Some here can't afford to see therapists.

I disagree that that our conversations aren't beneficial. Sometimes we need the perspective from others who live with similar situations. The younger ones can see that things don't get better, they get worse. Others can see that there's a pattern to this behavior, so their (the Non's) are not crazy.

Hummmm Hummmm

Submitted by Betrayed on Sat, 08/15/2015 - 17:27

Overwhemled wife

You clearly took my took my statement and quoted it out of context, did you care to read the rest of the sentence.

I think your Husband must be really overwhelmed considering how you twisted things I said in attempt to make it appear contradictory.

Here is the rest of the sentence you conveniently left out...

"but fueling the fires of others is not helpful to finding them a solution".

meaning go ahead and be a b itch on here , but you are not helping others find a solution they are looking for, instead you are only fueling their anger.

If you can't afford help, please get off here and get a job so you can afford to do so. You are not helping anyone on here

BACK OFF, doc T

Submitted by sickandtired on Sat, 08/15/2015 - 17:47

Hey doc T,

Overwhelmed Wife is helping ME, and at least she has had the courage to get on this site and share her perspective with those who have BEEN THERE and you have no right to judge her like that. ... Most people get on this site and first share their story, they might wait for months before they feel comfortable commenting on others' posts. You show up out of nowhere just a couple of days ago and only comment on my threads....why only me?? As far as i am concerned, your philosophy is for me just to give my BF a free pass, and to try a little tenderness....I tried that for years as he got progressively meaner and out of control. ...and speaking of mean, how dare you be so mean to Overwhelmed Wife, telling her to get a job and get off here. You have a little bit of anger inside YOU, don't you, whoever you really are...and by your horrible spelling and grammar, I'll bet you're not even a real "doc".

You must not have read my posts if you think...

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Sun, 08/16/2015 - 00:56

You must not have read my posts if you think I need to "get a job" so that I can "afford" professional help. I have plenty of money, thank you very much. I also have an incredibly successful business, so I do have a "job." I also have amazing health insurance that pays for most of all medical treatments, including any therapy.

I doubt that you are a doc of any type, but I won't resort to calling you names, as you have done.

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