I think we maybe are discussing the wrong spouse on this web site, way to often...What happen's to the mind and emotions of a person who is subjected to denial (behavior blindness) and indifference from their spouse over an extended period of time (years for most of us)??....I know I am damaged to some degree...Even if it's just thinking about it an unhealthy amount...(thought dominating)...
I know the amount of effort given by men and women, who see and accept the big picture of life, and encourage the same have to have some long time emotional damage when regularly subjected to tunnel vision, hyper focus, and indifference.....Most of us would love for our spouse's to have the ability to set us down, talk to us openly about the real way they live life...Even if they were telling us that they had no convictions to change...As long as they were making honest statements about their real life behaviors....
I have talked a lot about acceptance, and I do believe it is a must we don't sugar coat reality...But what is the cost to our emotions? So my question is..."What are we going to do (if anything) to help the spouse who has been damaged by living with and attempting to communicate with a spouse who is indifferent (no signs of care or remorse) and in denial??
Those of us who have attempted to be the fly on the wall, and those who have studied and read the books, pretty much know what is going to happen w/ our spouses...(attitudes and behaviors)....But what about the effected spouse?....What about the spouse who struggles (is damaged) with this seemingly unending mental and emotional torture? I don't drink or do drugs of any kind...So I can't get away from reality? So I will just say this....Those of you who have found a way (The Way;) to ignore, and not get sucked into the debates with a closed mind of denial....You are my hero's!....But sadly, I don't know if the continual exposure to indifference has a happy ending....Unless we find a way to not be effected....I try to keep my focus in Jesus, and seek him for mental clarity, and emotional strength, and wisdom to live under very difficult circumstances..He promise's he will be with me in my troubles...
But being "hopefully" a some what normal human, and having all the human desires for closeness and intimacy...It makes applying wisdom a battle some day's when she looks so normal....LOL...That's the trap isn't it?? They look so normal, and so good I might add, when we love them....So it's a real chore many days to not allow myself to turn into this poor me victim..LOL...But I just have to count my blessings, take care of myself, and continue to attempt to not over think what I am powerless to change... But the cost of this continued hope (our humanity) has been tough on my emotional stability, and psych....
I try to never think about what it would be like to set across the table from an adult female who isn't distracted, and lost in their own little world of ramblings (if I can get her to the table)....Some one I could look up at, and catch her calmly w/ awareness, looking into my eyes, smiling and living in the moment...WOW...LOL.....
Are you emotionally and/or mentally effected by the blame and indifference? How can we help each other?
c
Acknowledging the fact that I
Submitted by Libby on
Acknowledging the fact that I am badly damaged is one if the first things I did when I joined an Alanon group. Going there weekly has helped me a lot. My situation has not changed one bit but I do think I have become more calm and focussed. It is still hard but I do feel somewhat more hopeful with my life.
The main way to help each other is to keep coming here and sharing what is working for us. I haven't posted in awhile but I do read daily and appreciate the honesty that is shared here.
Libby, I agree with you. I
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Libby, I agree with you. I still visit the site because I'm still coming to terms with what happened to me. At first, I came here to understand and gain perspective, but now I find I'm here reading posts to gain perspective on what happened and why it's affected me the way it has.
My ex husband didn't have any integrity. It's been a year since the divorce. My literal first thought upon waking this morning was this - I remembered a cash withdrawal from his account mid week. I googled the ATM site. It was from a convenience store in front of a skanky hotel. Yes, my lack of trust at that point was such that I verified everything. It was a really sh*((% way to live. When questioned, he said that he gave money to his sister for a car repair. I know it was a lie. I could tell from his body posture and the way he spoke. My second thought upon waking was that he literally broke out in a sweat when I asked to see his phone. And he grabbed it out of my hand within a half a minute. I'm sure he was seeing a hooker and engaged in all sorts of improper communications.
The point is, I've done well this past year, but this stuff still haunts me. Friends and family have urged me to "get back out there." In the last two days I realized that I didn't want to start dating and barely want to talk to a man out of fear. Fear and a sense of being unlovable and unworthy. This stuff hurts. Still hurts. The ADHD behaviors hurt very deeply. In my opinion, the constant betrayals (not always cheating, just broken promises, angry responses, etc) take a huge toll on the psyche. To me, I'm still recovering from the re-traumatizations. Lies, neglect, lack of communication, stonewalling... it all hurts. The compensations we do also hurt.
I am damaged by the marriage. There it is. It's a conclusion I have come to in the last three days.
At this point, I think I would now hold back too much to ever have the type of relationship C described.
There is so much discussion about how the non can help the relationships or help themselves by changing their behaviors and perspectives. I truly wish that there was more discussion about the damage caused by constant trauma. In fact, I think most of my anger was caused by trauma reactions. Being told to be the best version of myself isn't really bad advice, but I wish there was more information about how to recover from trauma. Because that's what many of us face in relationships with a non treated ADHD'er in denial. Work arounds and boundaries are great and necessary, but I know I need help healing from the trauma.
I don’t think professionals realize the depths
Submitted by Brindle on
vabeachgal, you said you wished there was talk of how to deal with the trauma of being with the untreated, in denial adhd’er. I think there isn’t talk of it because the average counselor/therapist doesn’t get it at all.
I have a therapist. I see this person specifically because I don’t know how to do this life with a family of adhd. I decided that I simply must have someone I can talk to about all this stuff. She says she knows all about adhd. She’s not an expert. She’s a typical counselor. She says she works with adhd adults. But one day when I was crying about something very hurtful, she actually asked me why I let him affect me so. I almost quit going to her right then and there. To her, it seems this stuff seems petty. She even agrees with me that adhd stuff is stressful partially just because it’s chronic. And when it comes to supporting me as a mom of adhd kids, she does well. But supporting me as a wife of an untreated adhd’er, she does not get it at all. But to ask me why I let him affect me so much, is to not recognize what marriage to a dysfunctional person is like. (And I did tell her that I don’t know what she’s expecting because I do have boundaries, I have detached in many ways, I have changed how I do my life so I don’t depend on him (I’m way over functioning because he simply won’t do the stuff), etc. I found her answer so vague and confusing that now, weeks later, I can’t even remember what she said. She clearly thinks I should be over some stuff. I think she doesn’t understand at all. In fact, I had a previous therapist whose own mother and son have adhd, and that was an excellent therapist. She understood so much and kept telling me that if I didn’t work to take good care of myself, then all the stuff I live with would do damage. She got it because she’d lived with it. Is that really what it takes? Perhaps it is.
Chronic
Submitted by vabeachgal on
Yes, it matters because it's chronic and it's constant re-traumatization. It's hard to "get over it" when it keeps coming. If the ADHD'er isn't committed to treatment and/or won't acknowledge that the ADHD affects family life, you also have no feeling that the situation will ever end or get better. Hence, hopelessness sets in. Overcompensation sets in. I think the therapist may have given decent advice for dealing with someone you are not in day to day contact with or have such a close relationship with. It's both the repetition of behavior and the sheer knowledge that the relationship may/will never be what you want. It's is damaging being in a psychological place where you can't relax and you have no belief that it will change.
I ended up feeling crazy that I would have to detach and overcompensate to remain in the marriage... and ironically... the detachment and overcompensation guaranteed that it was not a marriage I wanted to stay in.
Yeah I once had a therapist
Submitted by Libby on
Yeah I once had a therapist tell me to put my Teflon suit on. He said I had to learn to let things slide. On the other hand I have had an excellent GP and one other therapist who totally understood and acknowledged my pain. Right now it is Alanon that is really helping me. It is not just helpful for families of alcoholics but other dysfunctions also.
Yes, I am affected
Submitted by Brindle on
But being "hopefully" a some what normal human, and having all the human desires for closeness and intimacy...It makes applying wisdom a battle some day's when she looks so normal....LOL...That's the trap isn't it?? They look so normal, and so good I might add, when we love them....So it's a real chore many days to not allow myself to turn into this poor me victim..LOL...But I just have to count my blessings, take care of myself, and continue to attempt to not over think what I am powerless to change... But the cost of this continued hope (our humanity) has been tough on my emotional stability, and psych....
This is it. This. Is. It. Especially on the “they look so normal” because I have thought similar thoughts! And yes, I do love him. And I find him attractive. So I constantly want better, want more.
And what if it never gets better. What if our spouses never own their behaviors, never even try to make it right, never work to treat the issues?
Is it possible to be a mentally healthy human being when living with that constantly? Mmm, maybe, but I feel the deep emotional work would be much like putting on heavy armor every day.
What do they advise the families of Alzheimer’s patients or traumatic brain injuries to do? Is it the same as what they tell us? I think I saw a site for wives of autistic men, and it did talk about the emotional damage, and how people just don’t recognize that dynamic being so terrible for a marriage. Maybe we should be looking everywhere we can for advice for those things that therapists and psychologists do see as super damaging, even if it has a different label?
I saw the same or similar
Submitted by vabeachgal on
I saw the same or similar article. There is a lot written on healing from relationship betrayals as well. I feel it also applies to a NON/ADHD relationship.
Trauma for the spouse is under-acknowledged
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I wholeheartedly agree with this. As the non-spouse, we are often encouraged to empathize, support, detach and grieve the loss of the relationship we thought we were getting. Ouch. Sometimes we are even advised to take anti-depressants, spend more money on outside help, work to move past an infidelity, etc. All for an issue that we are casualties of!! We have already done too much and then we are advised to do more before we are actually able to process and come to terms our own experience and how it has traumatized us. I actually think that unless the ADHD spouse is working just as hard or harder, this advice, when amalgamated, is pretty painful and not really compassionate of the non-spouse's experience.
The reason I am responding here specifically is that I have read articles about recovering from the abuse of a narcissistic partner. I acknowledge this is actually typically much worse and far more dangerous than dealing with an ADHD-er, but these articles often focus on the narcissist's typical first phase of courtship. Narcissists sweep their mates off their feet. They charm a partner during courtship and they seem wonderful. When the relationship starts to go bad, as it inevitably does, the partner who experienced this whirlwind courtship feels a cognitive dissonance that is documented to last a very long time and to very significantly damage the partner. Just google cognitive dissonance + narcissist to read about the severity of the effects. It means that our brains have acclimated to the wonderful person presented initially and have an unbelievably difficult time comprehending the monster that person becomes over time. I believe that the spouses of those with ADHD go through something very similar due to the hyperfocus courtship, yet the effects of this are rarely/never acknowledged or treated. So many issues/habits/behaviors are masked in courtship and we are absolutely shocked by the marriage we ultimately get. I believe that while a lot of literature acknowledges the effects of ADHD on the non-spouse, there is not a lot of advice on how to rebuild and repair the damage and few therapists truly get it. If they "get" ADHD at all, their focus is on supporting the ADHD partner and usually how the non should work further out of his/her comfort zone to help. It's almost a re-traumatization.
I digress! I am definitely damaged by this experience. I don't trust myself. I am not sure I would ever trust myself to choose a partner again. I feel unloved and unlovable. I feel devalued and used. I have become more of an introvert over time. I am physically/mentally exhausted. I now have anxiety. My sleep is so disturbed and my body so constantly in an anxious state that no doubt my physical and mental health have been impacted.... possibly for the long term regardless of whether I stay or go. I can't be myself in this relationship because I have to have my guard up all the time and create boundaries I shouldn't need. And I am furious with myself for raising my daughter in this environment. How will this impact her? I feel like I have thrown away such a huge chunk of my life.
EDIT: Just a quick edit to note that I would never ever compare living with an ADHD spouse to living with the deliberate and horrific abuse of a narcissistic partner. I only wanted to note the concept of cognitive dissonance and how our perception of reality gets twisted following courtship. Phew. Hope I got that in before anyone read this without the edit!
The bottom line is the impact
Submitted by Libby on
The bottom line is the impact of living with an untreated ADD spouse is the same as living with a narcissist. We experience the same mental, spiritual, emotional, social and even physical damage. All after being told by professionals to be accommodating and accepting of these individuals.
I have found an excellent source on U tube. His name is Les Carter. He deals with narcississm but his advice and encouragement apply to us also.
Thank you ladies for sharing.....
Submitted by c ur self on
What I am feeling in my life, and reading here in your posts, is the product (the fruit) of emotional and physical neglect....I know how many hours, days, and years you all (like myself) have spent trying to bring light to this fact....The fact is, many of our spouses can change over short periods of time (it's constant effort for them)....But the ability to see and accept the big picture of life, is not a trait (gene) she was born with...
So their will be very limited consistency in her ability to focus on another person's needs, over the long haul...Her level of distraction, and her over whelming love for frivolity (self pleasing) is her life....She has some wonderful qualities when it comes loving friends, children, and family...This is the reason, people, friends, (even children) can't understand our pain...They are being subjected to a happy loving person (hyper focus)...They just could never fathom a mind, that can turn these traits off (not sustain them) with their spouse....They only see what is visible....So to them, we have these wonderfully funny and out going spouses... Not one who is capable abandoning most all marital responsibility....
Starving people are damaged.....We could all handle being single...But when the carrot is always dangling, but is most always just out of reach, it's damaging!...When our life's pursuits is trying to bring light to a mind incapable and unwilling to grasp (own) the effects of their lives on us...Then we need to change to protect our sanity.....
None of us need to be held hostage by the actions of another. I'm attempting to free myself from this hostage state...I've decided to stop pursuing her....Let her pursue me....But for that to happen, I have to be willing to hold myself accountable to not cave....Be loving and accepting when she approaches me (Don't be like her)...But accept it's got to be on her terms, and in her time schedule, and not place expectations for her to be any different going forward... (Keep pursuing my life, my interests, she is an unavailable interest, most of the time, so accept it, and just go live!).....Most of my wife's life is lived just like a young undisciplined child lives...."Happy go Lucky"....This must be accepted by me, I must not mirror it, and must not fight it....c ur self, just needs to never allow himself to be held hostage by it, and just live the life God has blessed him with...one of thankfulness, one of great Joy, one of love and responsibility.....
What I have come to realize, is, this life is short, and I miss so many opportunities to love others, to be a blessing to others, and to care for myself (Have a rich full life)....When I allow my thoughts to be dominated by what I'm not receiving from her!....Ladies I send a very big smile, and a very tight hug, to you all this morning... ((((.))))...You are my hero's......Let's all get out of the indifference trap!
Blessings
c
The Dark side of ADHD is real
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
C, ADHD has both a Bright (courtship/hyper-focus) side and a Dark (indifference, selfishness, denial) side. Most of the painful comments here are from non-ADHD spouses whose relationships decomposed from a few months of intense interactive courtships (Bright) to sometimes decades of alienation due to ADHD symptoms (Dark). Day to day supporting an ADHDer while suffering constant anxiety (from what direction is today's emotional stomach-punch coming) takes such a toll it is as if the ADHDer is whittling down your soul without notice or concern. Other people are usually more acquainted with the Bright side of an ADHDer since, if they became increasing exposed to the Dark side, they'd become alienated and therefore drift away to relief before endure long periods of pain. A non-ADHD spouse stands to help ('I love this person; I've GOT TO do it!') and increasingly grasps at the smallest hope (new drugs, novelle theraphy, prayer) to believe progress is possible. The non-ADHDer must also keep the family's 'real life' moving forward (bills paid, kids raised, bail provided). Therapists who are not immersed daily in the ACTUAL reality of ADHD symptoms are a prisoner of logic ('A causes B and C helps A so C should help B') and wind up spinning in place. The first thing that goes when dealing with mental illness is logic. Even if the ADHDer acknowledges they have a medical condition that scrambles their 'executive functions' and earnestly intend to manage their symptoms for the benefit of themselves and others, they need to rely on their scrambled 'executive functions' to make and continue progress. This 'Catch-22' is at the heart of the despair.
Hello Will it get better....
Submitted by c ur self on
(C, ADHD has both a Bright (courtship/hyper-focus) side and a Dark (indifference, selfishness, denial) side. Most of the painful comments here are from non-ADHD spouses whose relationships decomposed from a few months of intense interactive courtships (Bright) to sometimes decades of alienation due to ADHD symptoms (Dark). Day to day supporting an ADHDer while suffering constant anxiety (from what direction is today's emotional stomach-punch coming) takes such a toll it is as if the ADHDer is whittling down your soul without notice or concern.)
Thanks for you comments, you draw a pretty clear picture of the dynamic many of us have or do live in....I just feel a little different about what sponsor's the dark side...I know many distracted people who suffer w/ several symptoms of adhd...But, they don't have the dark side...What they have is self awareness, a conscience, and ownership of their behaviors...Don't excuse any negative impact on others....
I think the dark side, is spiritual in nature.....I think all defiant and unrepentant people are just caught up in excusing the flesh...It's pride and selfishness in action, much of the time...Any time we are without a conscience, or allow a hard heart to over ride our convictions, (if we have any) we will use others for our own benefit without remorse.....(and excuse it when it's pointed out)....It's an impossible place to build a healthy relationship...
c
Exhausted and hopeless
Submitted by hb on
"Even if the ADHDer acknowledges they have a medical condition that scrambles their 'executive functions' and earnestly intend to manage their symptoms for the benefit of themselves and others, they need to rely on their scrambled 'executive functions' to make and continue progress. This 'Catch-22' is at the heart of the despair." YES. That's exactly it. My husband has been medicated for maybe the last 7 months of our 17 year marriage, and he's reading about ADHD, and trying, but I don't trust him to keep trying, and I still think he's undertreated, and every day I'm re-traumatized and re-triggered and angry and sad. Last week, I texted a suicide crisis line because I physically could not stop crying for an hour and a half. Had another bad crying jag yesterday. We have two special needs kids. I'm exhausted and hopeless and I don't know what to do. Odd and sad how just as he has started to consider treatment, I am not sure I can do this anymore.
We're doing the couples online courses by Melissa Orlov that start October 21st. That seems a lifetime away.
Suggest purchasing and completely reading the book first
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
As the non-ADHD spouse I have taken Melissa's course alongside my ADHD wife. She got overwhelmed after the first five or six weeks and just shutdown. The course and Melissa are excellent and can be extremely helpful. I would suggest purchasing and completely reading the book before the class begins so all of the concepts and techniques discussed are not completely new to you. The pace is very fast and you need to select the techniques that best suit your and your spouse's conditions. You'll need to learn to help yourself first, maintain that supporting structure, and help your spouse to take responsibility for managing his ADHD. You can not do it for him nor can you nag him to success. 'Complicated' does not begin to describe living in an ADHD relationship. This forum can help in that people here have also lived in this altered reality (for decades in many cases) and will immediately understand and believe you as you endure the trials and, hopefully, find some success. God bless you and good luck.
Hi hb....
Submitted by c ur self on
I usually can reply...but I have started and deleted it several times....My heart hurts for you!...I'm going to pray for you...What I would like to say to you is what I have had to keep saying to myself, (in order to find healing from the mental and emotional damage) for the last 6 years...*** I can NEVER trust my spouse to be a responsible party in the marriage, in any kind of consistent manner.*** What does that mean for me? It means I have to disassociate in most areas of life, especially those where I make myself vulnerable if I trust her....It means I have to live like she doesn't exist in many area's of life...It means many boundaries.....There is no way that I have found to live with a person who is that irresponsible (and justifies it much of the time) and trust them....Without ending up feeling just like I did for the first 5 years of the marriage....And like you were feeling when you wrote this post....
What is going on inside you (The trauma, the anger, (the bitterness in my case) is the same for many of us...Who have for years attempted to view our spouse's as the adult, we are suppose to be able to rely on, and trust to fill a role, thoughtfully and responsibly....
I finally figured out, that I could not!...That is when I made changes, and that is when I started healing....I do not know if you have developed bad habits when it comes to him?....I did, (mothering, picking up behind her, angrily pointing out her messiness and unconcern etc..)....But that has to stop if so....A lazy and intrusive (thoughtless) spouse must find themselves uncomfortable, or they will never consider what you are going through...There is no reason to.....They see you as the problem.....
You need help...But you need to NEVER think it's coming from him....Then you can start to heal.....It's just the reality none of us want to face (until we end up basket cases much of the time)....If he steps up and finds a way to be more productive, and more responsible...That's great...But, just let it be the miracle it is....And never look for it or count on it.....Then you will have a more clear picture, for what you need to do going forward....So you can heal, so you can find peace again...You are loved!....
I personally count on and trust the heavenly Father for my healing...For the ability to live wisely (not count on my spouse) but still love her and be kind....I fail way to often...But it's always me (my human weakness) it's never the Father....
c
None of us need to be held
Submitted by Sollertiae on
None of us need to be held hostage by the actions of another. I'm attempting to free myself from this hostage state...I've decided to stop pursuing her....Let her pursue me....But for that to happen, I have to be willing to hold myself accountable to not cave....Be loving and accepting when she approaches me (Don't be like her)...But accept it's got to be on her terms, and in her time schedule, and not place expectations for her to be any different going forward... (Keep pursuing my life, my interests, she is an unavailable interest, most of the time, so accept it, and just go live!).....
This learning to be truly interested in yourself (and thus incidentally interesting to someone with ADHD... or actually, any partner) is a hard task to do without making it a performance for attention or feeling like rejection, and I wish you all the best of luck in the process. Trusting there is a connection between you that will continue to exist without monitoring is utterly counter intuitive in any marriage and requires self compassion. For me, when I begin to fall down the rabbit hole of 'look at me' and struggle to climb back up again into self confident independence, I remind myself that his 'attention' does not look like the norm and that in fact, I am missing it when he does try if all I am doing is poking at him to respond how I want. As annoying as it can be and far too infrequent, him abruptly dragging me into his hyperfocus is in fact sharing and very often it is direct response to something observed about what I was doing independent of him, even if it takes longer for me to see the connection.
That and it is totally worth it in the end (and hilariously funny) for that rare moment when I am doing something that requires immense focus and he is bouncing around waiting for me to include him.
Sollertiae....
Submitted by c ur self on
(This learning to be truly interested in yourself (and thus incidentally interesting to someone with ADHD... or actually, any partner) is a hard task to do without making it a performance for attention or feeling like rejection, and I wish you all the best of luck in the process. Trusting there is a connection between you that will continue to exist without monitoring is utterly counter intuitive in any marriage and requires self compassion.)
I have had a good life, I know who I am...But, the demands I put on myself the first several years of this 11 year marriage (seeking a healthy attachment of love, trust and oneness) created a person, I didn't know any more....So, reversing that has been work...What happens to an enabler (like the person I had become) is we allow guilt to drive us to fit in to their lives...Even though we know deep down the reason it's so difficult for us to do, is because they never will...So we end up flipping a lot of our lives (who we are) just attempting to love them...So when nothing I did (going along w/ her interests and pursuits) ever seemed to be appreciated, and never really impacted what was coming back from her...I realized she wasn't capable of a healthy attachment, or appreciation on the level that I had w/ my late wife, and was looking for with her....Plus being a victim of her hyper focus, was also death to our relationship (quality time together), and I didn't deal w/ it very well....
What was happening w/ us, is the same thing that happens in many one sided relationships...."The more you do, the more they expect"....Life for this type mind, is all about them...
So what I have been attempting to do as you stated it..."Being truly interested in myself"...Is just relaxing, and pursuing a quality life...(stop over thinking what isn't possible, spend more time w/ friends and family, etc.)...When the enabling stops, and the boundaries start...People who have been able to have their way (control) in the direct of the relationship struggle (Don't like it!) LOL.....
It's not about attention are rejection, or to prove anything with me....It's about sanity, and not allowing guilt, pressure, or human weakness to drive life choices....If my heart is in the right place.... I can love my wife, and live with her in an understanding way (no matter what that entails) and still have a quality life myself....
This only happen's when we don't allow insecurities, or other baggage to hinder our trust....Besides it all comes down to convictions and choices for the most part....I can make it a immature game...Or I can seek to live ( pray for this ability of mind) a mature life of peace and rest, knowing I've done all I can do, to have the best relationship possible with my wife....I couldn't say that for years...
c
Apologies for my delayed
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Apologies for my delayed reply, I got a bit bogged down by work.
You certainly sound like someone who knows who you are, I mostly meant that it is being able to get the head space to pick that up again and enjoy it is the hard part. Curbing the urge to constantly check and engage and enable. But I am glad (from your comment to Brindle) that you seem to be having some success on all fronts - both your own sense of stability, and her getting enough space to be 'oh, what is going on there?'. I hope it continues and you manage to get to that peace and rest .. with just a bit of fun and adjusted intimacy on all sides. :)
C, some thoughts
Submitted by Brindle on
I've decided to stop pursuing her....Let her pursue me....But for that to happen, I have to be willing to hold myself accountable to not cave....Be loving and accepting when she approaches me (Don't be like her)...But accept it's got to be on her terms, and in her time schedule, and not place expectations for her to be any different going forward... (Keep pursuing my life, my interests, she is an unavailable interest, most of the time, so accept it, and just go live!)
Years ago I tried this, telling myself that I would wait for him to come find me. But I discovered that I was actually expecting that he would eventually come find me. That he’d miss me, say so, and actually work to spend time with me. Well, that was years before I knew what adhd was. And so, being totally clueless, I actually thought eventually he’d do what I just mentioned. He didn’t. I was devastated.
And now, I have arrived there again without intention - meaning, I’ve gotten to the point of “let him come find me if he wants to spend time with me.” But this time I know he won’t come find me. This time I know about adhd. And this time, I’m not devastated. Why? Because I’ve acknowledged to myself that he doesn’t really see me. I’ve gotten used to it, in terms of daily practicality. So many years of filling my evenings without him, well, there’s a routine there that I’m used to.
But if I’m reading what you’re saying correctly, I’m not at that place of “well, if he ever finds me, then we will have fun together.” I don’t want to just enjoy him when I happen to get his true attention. That’s not a marriage. I don’t have what I would call a marriage. I don’t know what to call this strange bond we have. What IS this? I feel drawn to him, care what happens to him, but can’t really have him, can’t really share myself with him, all while we share children, vacations, a bed, and money. Choices we make deeply affect the other but we don’t spend daily life together much. What the heck is that???
I digress. Anyway, I’m not at that place. And so, because of my own track record, I am wondering how you are doing with this internally. Are you also secretly hoping she will come find you? I don’t think so, from what I’ve read of your writings, but maybe I’m wrong. Are you really going to be able to happily accept her fleeting and rare presence? That carrot dangling seems to not only dangle but sometimes reach over and smack us... then dangle again... lol.
I don’t mean to discourage you. I guess I’m kinda wondering about all our relationships. It seems to me, that for myself, in order for me to get to the point where I can happilh accept him as a life mate who’s also a seasonal guest, all romantic love must slowly totally die. I’d have to see him in a totally different light, in order to do as you describe. I’d have to “move on” even while living with him. Is that what you’re thinking is the next stage of your journey, or is there something else for you to be able to accomplish this?
I'm basically in the same place as you....Brindle
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm just tired of propping up the relationship for both of us...(reminding, encouraging, it just gets tiring) It's really not my place to carry stress around working hard to not let the fire go out....She has very little desire for affection, and no desire for sex...I on the other hand still love flirting, long wet kisses, dancing in the kitchen while the dinner is cooking, showering together, and making love two or three times a week....I just love the beauty and purity of 2 being 1....Why would anyone want to cast off the most wonderful gift we have in a pure marriage....It's sad when we get so lazy and distracted we loose our desire for our spouse....
She on the other hand had rather put her energy into visiting adult children, and pursuing most any kind of activity outside the home...She loves fun, and she loves the light.....At home (unless the kids or grand kids are round) she is happy to be where she is right now, in the front room (guest room) watching TV...(She has some light depression I think...If she is up moving around in the house, she wants the door's wide open, and the blinds pulled way up....She was off today, and usually don't take her adderall when she is off....Which will cause her to sleep for hours some days...20 or so....
As for as the pulling back, I'm just interested to see what she is going to do for starters....But regardless of what she does, it will allow me (force me) to stop pressing her, and reminding her, that I'm a live, and I have needs...So that alone will be good for less stress....I started this a while ago, and our sex has dropped way off...But on the bright side, yesterday she instigated it, never complained once, even seemed to enjoy it...I think she is wondering what's up...LOL...I've always been pretty consistent in my behavior when it comes to touching, and seeking romance.....She is used to me being the aggressor...Maybe she thinks I have a girl friend :)...
But, I think it will turn into what you have to degree...(hope I'm wrong)...I think she loves me, (in the way she is capable) and will pursue me every now and then, if for no other reason, out of guilt....The counselor told her point blank it was just as much her responsibility to pursue me, as it was for me to pursue her....It didn't happen....
To be honest brindle, I'm just wanting it to be normal (no stress and negativity) or not at all....I'm tired....If the marriage ends up ending because of this....We never had one anyway....She needs to step up, and show me her convictions to be my wife w/o me reminding her....
It wouldn't be right here to not say, I expect myself to be kind and understanding not matter what happens to the relationship.....
c
This is my “favorite” thread.
Submitted by brindle2 on
I put quotation marks around it because favorite isn't exactly conveying what I mean. I mean that this thread describes my feelings and thoughts at this part of the journey. I even replied to this thread years ago, but I was still very much tied up in resentment and anger that shielded a lot of stuff. To answer C's original question for myself where I am now, yes, I am damaged by this relationship. I am not only affected by the blame and indifference, but also by his anger, by his blindness, and extremely slow pace to move in a positive direction. And when I read Melody's words, which I will cut and paste here, I nod deeply and wonder just how, once again, Melody articulates so perfectly what I feel. Melody's words:
"I am definitely damaged by this experience. I don't trust myself. I am not sure I would ever trust myself to choose a partner again. I feel unloved and unlovable. I feel devalued and used. I have become more of an introvert over time. I am physically/mentally exhausted. I now have anxiety. My sleep is so disturbed and my body so constantly in an anxious state that no doubt my physical and mental health have been impacted.... possibly for the long term regardless of whether I stay or go. I can't be myself in this relationship because I have to have my guard up all the time and create boundaries I shouldn't need."
Yes to all of it. The most damaging must be that we cannot be ourselves in our own homes. One of my siblings asked me awhile back where the old me had gone? That made me more sad than I can convey. I feel I died slowly. I don't want to leave this on a down note, however. I am trying to rebuild myself and to be happier. I think it is high time I felt happier.
Very accurate
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Thank you Brin for sharing this older thread. It made me very emotional.
Fresh out of divorce I've just started to whisper to myself: am I disabled now? All the years trying to raise a family with a severe ADD partner has taken away my confidence. I've lost all physical courage and become an anxious predictor of disaster. I have low tolerance of stress and noise. At times I have difficulties keeping it together.
Tried a short train journey with the children recently. Couldn't read the timetable, couldn't find the platforms. Almost missed the first and then also the connecting train, ran, cried... and then found the train, banged on the glass door, was let in, with the children in trail.
What is the brain trying to tell me? Do I need rest? Having been knotted up with chronic stress for so long, I now have a hard time relaxing at all, and also understanding how much I should ask of myself. Do I need to make other big changes, like downshifting at work or totally rethinking daily priorities? Maybe the entire structure of my mind is built around ADD and doesn't stand on its own?
I used to think I had good judgment. Instead I made a huge mistake with this marriage. I let it damage me, severely, maybe irreparably. Now I'm deceived, used, lost my best years, lost friends and circumstances that made me who I was. Maybe I also lost my mind, or distorted it permanently.
Hello Swedish Coast...
Submitted by c ur self on
Any time our life's circumstance's or continually stressful...We actually get use to the bad....Be kind to yourself....Time may seem to move slow, but, it will be your friend....You will be stronger, wiser and you will find yourself in time....
Prayers
c
Thank you brin....
Submitted by c ur self on
I think it's good every now and again to see where we have been, as compared to where we are today....
Hope's for a prosperous New Year friend...
c
Favourite thread
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I'm so sorry you are feeling this depth of pain, Brin. It's heartbreaking to hear those around you may be noticing. I know I tried really hard to hide what I was going through - to protect my spouse and my child - and maybe to protect myself from admitting how bad it was. I hope you can find happiness and the opportunities to rebuild yourself that you're looking for.
I am almost three years out and some of what you quoted is still true for me. I do still doubt my ability to choose a good partner, or at least fear I could be "fooled" again (hyperfocus masked so much). I'm still an introvert but much more assured and confident than when I wrote this. Filling my life with a new job, new home and living life on my own terms as a single mother has worked wonders and I feel incredibly empowered by it. My health - both physical and mental - is unfortunately affected permanently by my experience. However, I am happy I ended things before it got much worse and I can now safeguard and nourish the body and brain I still have. I believed I could never sleep more than an hour a night again and I am finally sleeping. Really sleeping. I didn't believe it was possible. I still don't really know myself, but now I have the space to explore that and I'm getting there.
Wishing you a happy, healthy 2024, brindle. You deserve the best.
Sleep
Submitted by brindle2 on
Oh, Melody. Only an hour of sleep? My stomach dropped when I read how great your sleep deprivation was! I am so, so glad that you are sleeping again. It is a bittersweet gladness. I'm sorry for all the pain and loss, but relieved and happy that you are able to recover and have the small and big victories again. I want so much contentment and happiness for you.
Thanks, Brin
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I want the same for you! You have so much strength and determination to find a way to live a fulfilling life and take care of your family.
Sleep
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I'm sorry Melody, I had no idea either. Not sleeping makes everything so much more difficult.
I hope your sleep will return. ❤️
Sleep
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Thank you Swedish and Brindle. The inability to sleep was definitely my body's alarm system going off and I ignored it too long trying to stay in my marriage until my daughter was older (and I wouldn't have to risk splitting custody with an unfit parent). I knew I needed to leave but I didn't want to trade my suffering for my daughter's. I tried sleeping pills and they helped for a short time, but I was soon back to an hour each night. This lasted years and as a result of that intensity I have sleep deprivation brain damage that is permanent. It's not as bad as the official diagnosis sounds. I still have a corporate job and I'm able to perform well and I am able to parent well, run a house, etc Ironically, it's my short term memory that's affected by the damage. Like someone with ADHD, I can no longer remember the three things I need at the grocery store or my to-dos for the day. I have to use all the external tools ADHD folks use or should be using. Lists, alarms, app reminders, etc. It's sad and frustrating because my memory used to be amazing, but the supports really work and I've learned to externalize what used to be an internal process.
Now that the stress of the marriage is gone, I can sleep again. It's not 100%, but it's leaps and bounds improved.
If anyone's health is suffering because of their relationship, I urge them to listen to what their bodies are trying to tell them.
I really appreciate all the support in this forum. Having this safe space to turn to with wonderful people like you who understand has made such a difference for me. Thank you.
So sorry Melody...
Submitted by c ur self on
Living under stress for 15 years has effected me also...Living w/ someone who has little ability to think of their spouse and manage time created a lot of lost sleep and frustrations over the years...I too find myself depending on external reminders to keep me on track...Just her life style and it's effects on me causes way to much distraction and over thinking...Something I've tried very hard to over come...It's easy enough to know I must live and let live, but when you are subjected to it daily, reality isn't so easy....
She moved into the guest bedroom about 3 years ago, and I've had more restful sleep overall since...But, I had rather my wife sleep w/ me....So it's a good and bad for me....
c
I had no idea, c
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I'm sorry you're experiencing this. You're so right about knowing what you can control/must accept, but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect you all the same.
I'm glad you can sleep a little better and hopefully still come together for quality time. I really hope you're doing well, c. ♥️