Can a person keep their Individuality, and still be responsible to their commitment as a spouse?....You can find many differing opinions on this particular subject....My thoughts on this subject is Yes....But! (Big But)....Any one who say's (or lives it out) their individualism is a reason to not discipline their lives toward unity in the relationship, don't want a unified relationship....They want their way (Selfishness)....
There are many things that hinder our relationships, (add/adhd can be one of those things, when used as an excuse) but, nothing I've experienced is a bigger hindrance, than a life mate who excuses themselves selfishly...What does a healthy marriages take?? How do we get there?? A desire for unity, love and sharing that is bigger than our own personal desires and self interests?? Two committed people who do not make excuses for not disciplining their lives?? Is it OK to say I don't want to spend time with my children?? (meals, baths, home work, play, discipline) Is it OK to make these kind of statements to my spouse?? (You should have found out who you were marrying!!) OR (That's just who I am!!) There is one thing many counselors agree on....Selfishness is the biggest hindrance to our relationships.....
I have found out in my own marriage, and in my own life, that I need to be careful about identifying ***my wife's problems*** She has them, and so do I....But, I've learned (through much pain and sin against her) that I can't say anything to change her....I can say some things that make it worse LOL....A lot worse!....I can do some things that help...But those things aren't manipulative in nature....They are simply just never enabling or mothering, being quiet, letting her watch her husband hopefully be calm, patient and live peacefully, no matter what's going on with her. (Acceptance). When I do speak, speak love and kindness, and never expect a reply...(Just be what I want)
The truth is...(IMO of course) Many of us, including me, really do not think we have any type of an A typical marriage....And again, just my opinion, but, we probably never will, with our present spouses....But I also think that is OK, I don't think it gives me an excuse to not do the work of the marriage that I vowed to do... No, my happiness isn't her responsibility as much as I would like to blame it on her at times....
IMO and experience what keeps a dysfunctional living spouse (one who excuses selfishness and irresponsibility) happy and thriving in their present lives, is comfort....Comfort??? Yes comfort....My spouse has a mind that is dominated by many interests...Our marriage use to be the least of these...(Saw the responsibility of it as a ball and chain)...It's definitely still her reality in many ways, but, she has improved quiet a bit over the past year or two...Why? When I quit complaining, when I quietly just started living my life....When I wasn't setting here just waiting for her to take time for me (put me on her schedule) she got uncomfortable....I can accept my wife, and I can be a positive and loving husband...But, when she puts people places and things ahead of our marital relationship (to busy for us) my life doesn't go on hold any longer....It use to, because that is what my late wife of thirty years and I had...So I was stuck in a mind-set that said...****Marriage means two**** So all pointing that out for years did was create arguments and hurt feelings for both of us.....
Are you making it easy for your spouse to not confront themselves about their behaviors?? Are you keeping them comfortable, by allowing your life to be dominated by their life styles? Enabling? Mothering? Let them watch you live the life you would want for the two you....Don't get old with a lot of regrets....You can love and be faithful to your spouse, and still enjoy your own life....It will shock them, but, when it does, don't allow their false sense of lost control cause guilt in you....My wife goes and does, and does w/o out much more than a text, and that is just some times...If she can't put her finger on me....The questions start....Where were you when I got up?...Who were you with?...What were you doing?....I never play games....I give her kind answers....But I also may say...Hey what is up w/ the third degree....I don't know where you are, much of the time....Yep....When they see we have a happy life, with OR without them...They might re-think their life styles....Hmmm...not so comfortable, with my spouse living like I do....LOL....
c
I need time alone to recharge
Submitted by daizzebelle on
and I take it when I need it. I also spend time with my girl friends without my husband. We usually do a girls weekend once a year and we get together 2 or 3 times a month to get a drink or go to a movie or have brunch. Recently I joined a book club that meets once a month and I also started volunteering 2 hours a week for a nonprofit that serves people with disabilities .He does not have any friends. I've encouraged him to reconnect with old friends and make new ones, but he says he is too tired/doesn't have enough time. I think he is depressed and should talk to his Dr about getting back on Wellbutrin or trying a different antidepressant. He doesn't want to. I told him the other day His whole life is "I Don't Want To and I Don't Feel Like It."
I think a perfect life for him would be not all that much different from now except that he would not work at a job. He is always wishing he had a trust fund so that he could quit his job. Even if we didn't need the money I think it would be a bad idea for him to have no schedule at all. He has the summers off and chooses not to work. I have said over and over that not only do we need the money, he needs the structure of having a set time to be somewhere and do something. Without it he spends every day searching on eBay for rare stamps while listening to podcasts about getting rich by working only 4 hours a week and getting buff by exercising only 10 minutes a day. He says his job is stressful and he needs a break from working. So again we just do not agree and either I live with it or I leave. No point in being angry and frustrated all the time.
Sometimes I think if we lived separately I would be happier and I would still enjoy spending time with him and be happy enough. But other times I think that really wouldn't work. I don't know. ..we haven't tried it....yet. We've been married for 12 years.
Daizzebelle....
Submitted by c ur self on
I think most of us have our own set of thoughts about how to spend our time....What is good for one, (normal) may not be good for another....I try to be understanding to each person's needs....I can see your husbands desire for solitude....I also can see your desire for fellowship....I think many things drive our tendencies in this area.....(jobs where we are in constant contact with others, just being noisy and having no real enjoyable life of our own, difficulty in relating well with others, bad past experiences, trouble trusting, nothing in common, or maybe you just have a nervous system that demands calm, to name a few...)
I think when we accept our spouses, we can be at peace with the differences.....But, (just my personal thoughts)...I think if we truly love our spouses, we will always put them first in this life....We will want quality time with them ahead of any other activity....Of course, I will admit, It's much easier to accept our spouses differences, when they daily show love and contentment in meeting our needs, and being by our sides.....If my wife or I are having to take breaks to get away from one another (LOL), it's probably time to go to the counselor.....Because something real wrong.......
This is the reason why I asked the question in the original post....I think a H and W's marriage vows....(2 being 1)....has to be nurtured (do the work) and never pushed to the back burner, in the name of individuality...(IMO) All that is just selfishness, placing personal desires above our marital commitment....But, the crux of the matter in marital relationship is, it takes both parties fully committed, fully devoted, to have a healthy union....
What's funny about this scenario is....Couples who are fully devoted to the marriage, and to one another, usually don't ever have to have conversations concerning this dynamic....Because there is no dynamic....And when one or the other feels a little left out, from time to time.....The have no problem talking about it....And there is full attention given to making it right....But when selfishness is the strong hold in a person's heart...Any attempt to have a conversation is most always meet w/ defensiveness and justification.....
c
C, I've been thinking often of your words and I have
Submitted by daizzebelle on
an idea of what I want to share in response with my own thoughts about individuality and unity and accepting each other's differences. but I have been struggling with how to articulate my thoughts. I think there is room for both individuality and unity in marriage. I need time alone to do my own thing, and so does my husband. And neither of us can or should try to meet all of the other's needs. I accept that he is a different person and his way of doing things is different from mine.
But, something that feels like it is missing often from our relationship is connection. It seems to me that people who are good at connection are more likely to have satisfying intimate relationships.
As you said, spouses who are devoted to the marriage make adjustments as needed. But I think it's much more than devotion and a lack of selfishness...it's connecting. Intentionally. Making it a priority to spend time with each other and give each other your full attention.
Unfortunately for so many reasons (distractedness, inattentiveness, hyperfocus on shiny new things, great need for stimulation, to name a few) connection is difficult for those with ADD.
I very much want to connect with my husband: I want to have a feeling of oneness, share experiences and feelings and similar ideas.
And yes, I agree with you that expecting him to behave differently leads to anger and frustration for me and my choices are 1. Accept him as he is or 2. Separate.
And yet I feel that if there was more effort to connect...share feelings and experiences and ideas...I would not feel so alone and lonely in my marriage. Yes, I can greatly reduce my own frustration by giving up on expecting him to remember things, follow through, notice what needs to be done and do it, etc. But I think if there is no joint effort at making a life *together* then basically we are already *separated*...living under the same roof, yes, but sharing a life? Not so much.
Bottom line: if we are not in this together and we are not connecting, what is the benefit. I don't see any. Sad.
I want to connect but I can't make connection happen by myself.
Daizzebelle....
Submitted by c ur self on
( I need time alone to do my own thing, and so does my husband. And neither of us can or should try to meet all of the other's needs.)....I agree w/ this statement 100%, as long as my actions (or hers) aren't questionable things, that either of us wouldn't do in the presents of the other)
But, something that feels like it is missing often from our relationship is connection. It seems to me that people who are good at connection are more likely to have satisfying intimate relationships. (As you said, spouses who are devoted to the marriage make adjustments as needed. But I think it's much more than devotion and a lack of selfishness...it's connecting. Intentionally. Making it a priority to spend time with each other and give each other your full attention.)....I agree...(my view of devotion and commitment, covers not allowing differences to keep us from having a strong connection....In other words, IMO, the amount of time a spouse puts into working on having that healthy attachment (connection) shows ( is a good measure) their level of commitment and devotion....Words are pretty much useless when it comes to my feelings for my wife, or hers for me....I can tell her I love her all day...But if I'm not willing to act of that statement ( do the work, actions), it's of none effect.....Same for her....
(Unfortunately for so many reasons (distractedness, inattentiveness, hyperfocus on shiny new things, great need for stimulation, to name a few) connection is difficult for those with ADD.) ....
I agree w/ the this statement 100%....But to use it as an excuse for not doing the work of the marriage is always wrong!...Healthy attachments can be had by add/adhd spouses. But they must care to work at it, more than they care not to....(Again, selfishness vs relational work)...The symptoms you have stated here are definitely not lost on the spouse who has them, no more than they are lost on the person who is married to that spouse....A refusal to manage our lives (adhd or not) to this end, just say's, I choose me...Not us.....
I've stated this many times, there are many people in life (adhd is one of these, especially if denial is present) who's life styles, (the way they think, feel, and behave) are much more conducive to living single....It takes much more self awareness and the learning of relational work habits for them, than it does for those who are truly at peace, w/ the work it takes for a healthy attachment....
Of course this doesn't stop them from having normal feelings (urges and desires) toward the opposite sex....IMO....Most of us married someone we felt was exciting and fun...We just didn't know they couldn't turn it off, and give that same amount of focus to the responsible things of life....
Bless you...
c
So I did not marry my ADD husband bc he was exciting and fun
Submitted by daizzebelle on
We were well out of the crazy in love stage and very domestic at that point. He had already moved in with me mainly bc it seemed silly for him to keep paying rent on his place when he spent every night at my place. He asked me to marry him and I said no. I had a horrific first marriage and was dealing with insane behavior from my ex. He was continually harassing me. He was forever filing BS claims in court. Stalking me. I had a TPO. It was a f***ing nightmare.
He asked me again to marry him and I said no again. I didn't want to be legally attached to anyone again. But one morning I woke up and thought I love this man and he loves me. So the next week we went to the courthouse and got married.
I am content without excitement in life...in fact I prefer peace and quiet ...it's so ironic that my first husband turned out to be such a drama queen...it's not what I wanted for my life and before we married I had no clue how dedicated he was (still is) to chaos and craziness.
So I don-'t feel misled in any way by my ADD husband ...the shiny newness had worn off by the time I agreed to marry him...I do think that I went into my 2nd marriage with my eyes open...he did not have a diagnosis of ADD back then, but I wasn't blind to his struggles...he forgot things, lost things, struggled with deadlines, organization , etc etc
I have my own struggles (PTSD from abusive ex husband) and my 2nd husband is compassionate and kind re: my issues...and I thought if I continued being similarly compassionate toward him and understanding of his struggles then we would be ok. Unfortunately it hasn't turned out that way. It sort of works in that he is patient with me... but it doesn't work in that I am increasingly stressed out and frustrated by his issues. The difference is that my issues don't impact our life together in the same way that his issues do. When I am triggered and suffering from PTSD symptoms, I see my psychiatrist and my therapist, and I lean on my brother and my closest friends for support.
When my husband's symptoms come up, he does not take any steps to mitigate them. He gets more and more frazzled, and he tries to suck me in to parent/child dynamics.
It just isn't working for me. Like I've said before here in this forum, he is not unhappy in our relationship. I think he would be content for our marriage to continue as is. It's enough for him. He is getting enough of his needs met. Our sex life is great. I'm a good cook and he likes to eat. I do the lion's share of the housework. I do all the scheduling and almost all of the bill paying.
If we were to separate he would have to grocery shop and plan and make his own meals-- or eat tuna straight out of the can, which he has done before, live in a dirty apartment, wear dirty clothes, pay (not pay) the bills, pay more late fees, have his utilities and his cell phone cut off from not paying on time, and more than likely he would consistently forget to pick the children up from their activities and forget to take them places they need to go.
So just in a practical sense he is better off if we stay together, plus he has a live in sex partner. (And so do I.) The problem is me. I am not happy. Yes, I accept his differences. We cope with problems in different ways.
What I can't accept is when the children get stranded somewhere, or important deadlines that affect both of us and/ or our kids get ignored (hello health insurance, life insurance, car insurance, tag renewal, tuition payments, deadlines, Dr appts, dentist appts, eyeglasses, new shoes, on and on and on)
Yes,..I understand.....
Submitted by c ur self on
The parent child dynamic is common for someone life you (me) who puts our energy into daily life vs things that don't relate to responsible living.....I can only tell you what I do....Set many boundaries that hold him accountable to be a man, provider and to be responsible.....He will be angry and tell you that you don't care about him....Do it because you do care about him....At some point he will have to grow up and be responsible....You may not always be there....Plus you deserve the same effort and energy from him that you put in to the marriage....It's OK to make mistakes, we all do it...It's just never Ok to justify them and continue down a hopeless road....
c
So this is where the rubber meets the road
Submitted by daizzebelle on
and what I struggle with the most. Could you give me an example of a boundary I can set so that his lack of follow through puts him in hot water but not me or the children? I have tried to make it so that he is responsible for certain things and it does not work. If I don't do the laundry, he will do it but he leaves wet clothes in the washer and they mildew. Should I just wash my own clothes and not his?
Another example: a while back I told him that I was not going to get the mail any more...it was up to him to get the mail. The mailbox filled up. We got an email from the office saying that the postal worker was going to send our mail back to the post office unless we emptied our mailbox. He ignored the email. Finally I got the mail so that I wouldn't have the hassle of having to be late to work in order to go to the post office to get my mail. So in that situation what is the right way to set a boundary? Ignore the fact that the mailbox was stuffed to the limit? If I do get the mail, do I only take mine out of the box and leave his in there?
He is just indifferent to consequences. I hate grocery shopping so I tried delegating that task to him. He doesn't buy everything on the list so he comes home with for example no toilet paper or no dishwasher detergent. He doesn't care if we are out of something. He uses Kleenex if there's no tp. He doesn't care if we have no fresh food. He will just eat canned food instead. Canned beans or canned tuna straight from the can. If I don't buy fresh food then the children and I won't have any. A recurring irritation is that his Dr told him to stop drinking cow's milk for health reasons. I buy almond milk for him. I buy whole milk for the children (the pediatrician's recommendation...our younger one needs the fat.) He doesn't drink the almond milk bc he prefers the taste of the whole milk. And he drinks a gallon of milk in 2 days or less. I tell him to get more milk for the children. He doesn't. He doesn't go back for tp or dw detergent or paper towels or light bulbs. Our bathroom was dark for 2 months until I finally bought light bulbs. I don't know what to do other than do the grocery shopping myself. So that's why I assigned him the task of getting the mail. He didn't do it. And so it goes...
Hmmm Bless you!
Submitted by c ur self on
In all the instance's you discussed here, this is what it say's to me about your husband....He is going to make do at the expense of his wife and children....That's one thing ***selfishness***....Never adhd...So you will have to come to grips with his refusal to accept responsibility for his role as a husband and parent, before you can accept what you need to do about it....
I deal w/ much of the same things...But, I have accepted it, and there are no minor children in the home....It has been much easier for me, once I accepted she wasn't going to put energy into the mundane chores of daily living as it relates to family responsibilites...Her mind is consumed w/ fun things, family and friend visits and trips and activities....All good things, but, that's it...No discipline or effort in the work parts of marriage...She gets by in a slngle life style...She isn't single...LOL....
So what acceptance allowed me to do was...Live like she doesn't exist...because in all the area's you just named she didn't...And neither does he!....What has you feeling so down about the marriage is this exact thing...Your expectations for him to take responsibility....So if you just come to grips that you can't trust him in many area's of life, you will stop wasting your breathe and suffering emotionally....
Some of my boundaries are things like.....When she refuses to get ready to go some where on time....We drive separate.....We do not share finances at all.....I pay the bills, I give her a sticky note w/ with the bills listed and costs...She gives me a check for 1/2....I do my taxes (married filing separate)...I tried to do them w/ her early in the marriage....She claimed 4 all year, and cost us a fortune at the end of the year...And then blamed me....She also waits to the last minute...I do not...I do most of the grocery shopping....She goes by Aldi's from time to time and picks up a few things...But it's nothing I can count on. (It's more hobby shopping then list shopping for needs).....She drinks almond milk (lactose intolerant)...I drink skim....
You can't do all this at once....It takes time, (for all us) But, just changing your thinking about him help...He can do so much more than he is doing....(But he has no incentive, other than your complaining) It's not your place to get upset trying to tell him or force him to think or feel like you...That only causes his life to destroy your peace?? What's wrong with that picture?? I've been there way to many times, that's why I'm here w/ you now:)....
Many people who live like my W and your H, will use you up...They become very dependent and we become very tired....But, he probably will never care about proper nutrition and the order of the house etc...as you do....It's not in him, he see life differently...He has different priorities than you...
Start your boundaries, get the help of a good counselor...It's not about not loving him...
c
Thanks so much C
Submitted by daizzebelle on
I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. It's so hard. I don't think of him as a selfish person but reading back over what I wrote I don't know what else to call it when he drinks up all the milk and refuses to replace it...for his *child* ...not me. It's the same with the many things he has broken or ruined over the years...eventually I replace them bc it is just too damn inconvenient for *me.* He doesn't care if the food processor is broken, but I do. Makes sense I suppose bc he uses the food processor once a year if that and I use it several times a week.
And he doesn't care that the bathroom is pitch black either. It seems as though nothing matters to him enough for him to get up off his ass and do something about it...like buy some damn light bulbs. I'm at a loss for how to set up any sort of consequences whereby our child would have milk to drink and he wouldn't. Or we would have tp and he wouldn't. Or we would have clean mildew free towels and he wouldn't. Or we would have light in the bathroom but he wouldn't. Makes me sad and angry. Makes me want to pull my hair out that this is the way my life is.
:( :( :(
One thing I did, that made a difference daizzebelle
Submitted by c ur self on
I finally came to the place, that I had had enough....I wanted her to live out her life the way she wanted...And all I wanted was a peaceful life....I hate the idea of divorce, and she know it....(I think subconsciously used it against me)....
I was over battling her to care (I was just done w/ the arguments)....So I told her if she didn't start loving her role (taking responsibility w/o the victim attitude) in the marriage it was over....She realized I wasn't kidding....It shocked her, and she has been a different person the past year or so....But, you have to mean it...I hope y'all can work it out...I hope he will wake up and learn to be thankful for his blessings.....
He doesn't believe that I will actually leave him...
Submitted by daizzebelle on
I've sat with him in his therapist's office sobbing and begging him to step up to the plate....I've told him over and over that I am exhausted and can't live like this anymore...but, I am still here. I seem incapable of giving up hope.
Despite all evidence to the contrary.
Submitted by daizzebelle on
I.e. he doesn't actually give me any reason to hope that things will get better. I feel like I am stuck in Tracy Chapman's Fast Car.
Good post
Submitted by Alone on
you are amazingly insightful!!!!
differences
Submitted by repeat that please on
I think I am a spiritual being and the love and connection I long for on the deepest level is for God Himself and no one else can satisfy my longings except Him. With Him, I overflow with His love and in loving others, my needs to love and to be loved are met.
As I live out that reality, as I accept and even embrace that concept in the grind of daily living, and refrain from using others or chemicals or events as substitutes, I become more whole and my cravings to take short cuts diminish.
pie in the sky
Submitted by repeat that please on
I expect many will view my last comment as pie-in-the-sky rhetoric intended to impress others. (I hope so.) In reality, it is a tough pill to swallow much of the time. Why? I want an intimate connection with my SO that will transplant my consciousness into heavenly realms where peace and love will always keep me safe and warm. What happens instead, as C puts it so well, the more I demand-consciously, deliberately or not-my SO fulfill that demand, the further apart we become. When I snuggle up to my God and sustain confidence in His capacity to furnish me with more than enough love to heal my frailties and to flow out of me onto others, the more SO is freed up to be the loving self she really is and wants to be.
Life in the Spirit....
Submitted by c ur self on
(I expect many will view my last comment as pie-in-the-sky rhetoric intended to impress others.).....
Not so friend, I don't see your comments as rhetoric at all...But life giving..... As for my self I see myself as a fleshly creation of a Holy God...One who is merciful and has made provisions for me to be empowered by his Holy Spirit, through the gift of his Son's life, death, and resurrection....
Which in turn makes me accountable to his gospel, and his call on my life as His Son, my wife's husband, my children's father, my grandchildren and to love my neighbor as my self.....
c
thanks C
Submitted by repeat that please on
"Religion is for people who don't want to go to hell. Spirituality is for people who have been there", they say. Have you heard that one?
If you asked anyone who knew me as a teenager/young adult whether or not I would try to live a life based on spiritual values, not one would see that in my future. They would have laughed riotously.
Hurting others only hurts me. Hating others is a foolproof boomerang. Unforgiveness on my part locks me in jail, alone. Cockiness leads to few if any friends. Pride always shows me how little I know and how small I really am. Self-reliance is like having a great car with no gas. Judging others harshly bites me in the fanny, always.
I wanted to be a good guy who genuinely cared about others, as I did when I was a child. I was unable to become anything like a loving, forgiving, unselfish type of guy no matter how good or strong my intentions were. But, Someone could help me and it turned out His supply of love was endless. It was He I had wanted all along but never got it, never knew He existed or was in any fashion concerned with me.
It seems to me that religious folk talk much about loving God while God has much to say to us about loving each other. Dylan wrote, "They talk about a life of brotherly love--show me someone who knows how to live it."
Great post. :)
Submitted by Sollertiae on
Great post. :)
In any relationship if you don't keep your individuality and curate it over time, then you will no longer have one. Finding a balance between having room for your own development and interests, but still maintaining connection together over long periods of time in a way that doesn't diminish or become about cohabitation are challenges for everyone - ADHD or not. I've been in a few where I simply had to leave because I ended up being suffocated by the co-dependency of my partner and my sense of self being obliterated. I could not get them the help they needed to be independent and allow me to be. Then again, I have also been with someone who through their personality alone was selfish enough to not want to maintain any connection and left me behind. Notably, without telling me. If these were typical, then I want something else!
At least I know after everything that I still treasure my independence above all, and I refuse to compromise it and nor will I ask that of anyone else. I suppose it remains to be seen as to whether or not we can work out a common language for intimacy and connection that works for us both and doesn't stretch the bond too far. When we work, he can rely on my patience and trust to be fine when he is unable to pay attention, and I rely on his uncanny ability to intuit my silences when I lapse into struggling with extended emotional intimacy. But we don't always work, and it will always be our work to try to keep this balance - I need to learn to articulate my emotional needs when he is not looking before getting his attention, and he needs to remember to look. This is his choice though, not me forcing him. I live the life I want, and if he would like to join me in that I always leave a door open.