Initiated In-House Separation today... scared

Sharing the burden

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Sun, 03/20/2016 - 14:42

Lost wife,

I hope that by sharing your feelings here, at the least it will give you a sense of lessening of the heavy burden you have been carrying around. Just verbalizing feelings, whether aloud or in writing, can feel like a huge relief.

I can fully understand how you feel.

With sincerity,

Liz

Thank you, Liz, it did help

Submitted by Lost Wife on Fri, 03/25/2016 - 12:38

Thank you, Liz, it did help to put those feelings out there. I internalize things badly, and my health is taking a dive because of it. Thank you for reading my post an giving support :)

Liz is right..

Submitted by NonADHD on Fri, 03/25/2016 - 13:14

The advice and ideas on here really help...but it's al up to you what you do with it if anything, it may or may not work....but at least try something...

I'm in the same position.

Submitted by lisa84 on Fri, 03/25/2016 - 09:41

I'm in the same position. Tomorrow is our 12 yr anniversary and I'm not acknowledging it. I kept waiting for the year I would finally be able to celebrate it, it never came, and I'm done waiting around. We have 4 kids, the youngest is 6 months old. I'm a stay at home homeschooling mom and I'm scared, but I've finally come to peace with the fact that what we have, no longer even resembles a marriage, and seperation/divorce is best for our whole family. We have reached the point where every single interaction between us is negative, we can even exchange two sentences without arguing. I have spent the last couple years just wishing he would not come home. And yet, he doesn't believe me when I say "I'm done" and he would just trudge along in this miserable marriage forever. In his eyes, all I have to do, is show him a little affection and everything will make itself right. He has another thing coming.

The last straw, was when he refused to give me some money that he had promised to give me, including money I need to buy the kids school curriculum. He says it's his money, because he has the job. I cook, clean, raise the kids, teach them, take them to activities, take our son to his speech therapy appts, etc. He hasn't changed one single diaper of our 6 month old and can't even hold him for longer than 5 minutes, yet all the things I do, do not entitle me to any of "his" money. My reward is getting to stay home with the kids. We have never been equals as spouses or parents. So, I have stopped doing his laundry, dishing up his meals, etc and I am, like you, starting an in house separation, until either he leaves or we leave. I'm D-O-N-E, DONE!

I have anxiety already, and this marriage has taken such a huge toll on my health. When I first came to the realization that we had wasted 12 years together, it was so devastating, I literally wanted to just die. I begged God to just strike me dead. But now, I am at peace. In my mind, we are already divorced, so that frees me of any expectations. Why should I expect him to care about me? We're divorced. Why should I expect him to help with the kids? I'm a single mom. If he wants to just live for his job and his money, that's exactly what he will get, and nothing else. I've finally reached the point where I am done trying to talk to him about things and help him understand. He will never get it.

Sorry to go off on a rant and make this about me, but I meant to say, I understand. I threw away 12 years of my life, with a man who didn't deserve one second of it. But we can't change the past, we can only move forward. We fought hard for our marriages, before being forced to let go for our sanity and health. I'm just glad to not have to pretend anymore or make excuses. It is what it is and I've finally accepted it. Hopefully you get to that point, too, because that makes it a little easier.

Hi, Lisa 84. Your story

Submitted by Lost Wife on Fri, 03/25/2016 - 12:37

Hi, Lisa 84. Your story definitely resonates with mine in many ways, and my heart breaks for you. I also homeschool, and have a home career in the arts. My husband WAS my complete partner in our career. It was perfect. Then he just...lost interest in caring about his work, and didn't make money. It got so bad I was working three days after having my last son to make rent and food money. I've carried the majority of the financial burden and responsibilities since then. My health has taken a huge hit, I almost died in 2012 because my immune system was so lowered by stress a simple infection almost killed me. He also lies nonstop to cover things up that he knows are an issue. Like porn usage (a non-negotiable with me) and work progress. The trust between us is blasted. He also is very selfish in communication; always interrupting, invalidating, dismissing, arguing. He knows that these things are unacceptable but does it anyway.

After this post, after a day he seemed to get that I was serious, and changed his tune. Despite how awful the years have been, the last year he seems to be really trying. He knows that he needs to radically change in every area, and what that entails. He has just been incapable of getting past his selfishness "in the moment" to do things right. Well, since my post he seems to be truly trying. Getting work done, being good to me, etc. Then he once again faltered and treated me like crap, and I lost it. I started packing, I just needed away from him. It was like a desperate survival thing, to get away. Then he surprised me and took responsibility for his actions, and said he needs to do better, and he will. He knows he cannot treat me that way anymore, and was sorry for faltering when he knows he must change. This was so unlike him it gave me pause. Right now we're okay, and he seems to be still doing great. But the hope I mustered up for this is feeble. I'm still trying to come up with an escape plan, and preparing to shield my heart for his inevitable backslide into bad treatment and bad work ethic.But, It makes me feel pathetic that I still have a tiny bit of hope, and that I still love him. If I could just stop, I would.

As for your story, I hope I don't offend, but your husband sounds incredibly sexist and blind to your needs. I don't think many men grow up learning how to be selfless and supportive, or how to communicate. My husband tried to pull the "it's my money/ I'm the boss because I make money" thing once and I went ballistic. It's such a stupid mindset. Your husband won't change unless HE wants to, as I'm sure you're aware. And it sounds like he's not even close, and the fact you've pulled away and deadened your feelings for him makes so much sense. He has emotionally abandoned you, hasn't nurtured your well-being. That is not a partner in life. He probably won't get it until you leave, which is much the same feeling I have with my husband. I also feel the wasted years, and it hurts so much, but you're right all we can do is move on, and I don't want to be in this same situation in 10 years. I must be willing to move forward alone, it's just so hard.

Thank you for your kind post and sharing your story :) I sincerely hope your husband sees the light before its too late, and if not, that you move forward and find true happiness. It has been so wonderful to share feelings with someone, thank you.

I know some of these

Submitted by lisa84 on Sat, 03/26/2016 - 10:50

I know some of these marriages end in success, so hopefully your husband is seeing the light and things will change for the better for you. I reached my breaking point right before I found out I was pregnant with #4. I made myself so sick and was probably as close to suicidal as you can get, without wanting to really harm yourself. He was oblivious to it all and acted like it was my problem. When I bring this up to him, he just says he's sorry I felt that way, with no hint of concern or remorse. But yet he says he loves me and wants to work on our marriage? It's like the Twilight Zone. I know he has ADHD, bit there has to be something else there, but I don't know what. Just a jerk? Lol.

Anyways, I was optimistic when we bought the ADHD marriage books and my husband acted like he really wanted to try. He hates to read, but he read some of it and then I read it and was like "Wow, this is our marriage! Now maybe he will understand some of the pain he's caused me and we can move forward!" Nope, he was basically like, "Cool, you just have to learn to let it go. Now when can we get to the part about restoring intimacy?" The book says that is one of the last things to work on, and the reasons should be obvious, but he literally said, "The book says it's the last thing to work on, but that doesn't mean we CAN'T be intimate before then". I'm so disgusted. So I'm sitting and crying and telling you about all the pain you've caused me for over a decade and you're complaining about intimacy?!

So yeah, I realized that there is no shred of hope left for this marriage and there probably never was. I really hope things go better for you and your husband is not as pig headed as mine. Mine has no self awareness or introspection. I seriously don't know how he's survived this far in life, without having a freaking clue. He seems so knowledgeable about other things and is really smart, he sees healthy relationships and how the men treat the women, but he does the opposite and expects the same results! In his mind, they have a good relationship because the woman is affectionate and that makes the man treat her well, rather than affection being the natural result of mutual respect, caring, communicating, treating each other as equals, etc. I know I'm not perfect and I brought my own problems into the marriage, I have ADD and anxiety, but even though he says he sees his flaws, he really doesn't and has no idea how it affects everyone around him. He's about to be his own problem, though. I do still care and I hope, for his sake, that he works on himself and finds happiness, but it won't be with me in the picture.

Sorry to rant some more. I am so glad I found this place with people who understand. I felt so alone for so long. We are stronger than we think and it helps to have support. By all means, give your marriage a last ditch effort and give your husband the chance to change, but if it starts to go south again, don't continue to torture yourself. I used to think there was nothing worse than divorce. I wish it didn't take me so long to realize that there is. I wish I didn't waste so much time being scared and thinking I could just stick it out. But at least I did finally see things for what they are and I'm ready to act on it.

It aggravates me to no end

Submitted by Lost Wife on Sat, 03/26/2016 - 21:18

It aggravates me to no end how your husband focuses on what HE can get out of the situation. The pig-headedness you describe I have experienced very similar attitudes from my husband. It just tore my hear to pieces to see the man I love do an say such selfish things and let my heart die on the inside, and our family fall apart, and still able to blame me for everything like he just can't do anything about it. It's so childish, and hard to retain that love and respect for that person.

I agree there's worse things than divorce. My mother, for instance, was married to my father for 26 years. My father was unaffectionate and disrespectful towards her. As I grew up I saw her slowly die on the inside. She loved my father deeply still, and focused all her time on being the best wife and mother she could be, in hopes my father would truly love her. Well... in the end my mom did finally get that divorce. She mustered up the rest of her strength and left, but killed herself within the year. :( She just had nothing left to stand on, mentally. I could feel it. If she had left earlier, when she was stronger, I think she would still be alive today. She tried so hard to stay in a one-sided marriage and make it work, and all it did was destroy her on the inside.

So that is worse to me. To remain in a marriage where there is no love, no trust, no respect, no true partnership. To not feel the fulfillment of a meaningful marriage. Life is too short to be so unhappy. My husband knows I will not be like my mother and wait and wait for him. 11 years is enough. If he doesn't change now, he never will. I am ready to go. It will be hard it if comes to that, I will waiver and doubt, but I know I must move on.

Wish me luck things don't end that way, and I hope for you with all may heart you get away from the pain and find happiness. And please, rant away. It is nice to read another's perspectives and experiences in this.

It makes me sick for all of

Submitted by lisa84 on Mon, 03/28/2016 - 23:49

It makes me sick for all of us who end up in marriages like this. In my case, I can't believe I was so blinded to all the warning signs from the beginning. We had no business getting married, and everyone around us saw it, but us. It's like I'm just now waking up from a deep sleep.

That is so awful about your mother. I'm so sorry to hear that it ended that way for her. I had my own issues even before marriage, but I was always such an optimistic, hopeful person. I hardly recognize the depressed, negative, worn down, wet rag I've become. I feel at least 10 yrs older than I am.

I really hope things work out for you and your husband is able to see what he's doing. I will never understand how these men can walk through life so blissfully unaware of the path of destruction they leave behind them. It makes me so bitter and angry to think my husband may go to his deathbed, never having a single glimpse into my world of pain and loneliness. Then again, I know he is hurting inside, too, and he doesn't even know it. And for that, I feel bad.

Lisa...

Submitted by NonADHD on Fri, 03/25/2016 - 13:13

Why not try and trial seperation....but be serious about doing it. Maybe he will see the reality when you leave. Time away from you and the kids may just kick him in the pants....I'm doing it, and it's working...

We will probably spend some

Submitted by lisa84 on Sat, 03/26/2016 - 10:59

We will probably spend some time separated, before divorce, but even if that causes him to start to see the light, it's too late. Too much damage and it would probably take a decade of therapy for me to even start letting go of everything. I'm not even sure if there was ever any genuine love in our marriage, in fact, I'm pretty sure there never was. We were doomed from the start and I really don't know why we kept on for so long.

Lisa, it so breaks my heart

Submitted by Lost Wife on Sat, 03/26/2016 - 21:04

Lisa, it so breaks my heart to hear your pain. I really want you to be happy and hope that comes to you quickly.

How's it going, Lost? I hope

Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on Tue, 03/29/2016 - 20:27

How's it going, Lost? I hope the separation is giving you at least a partial break from things you need some distance from.

I updated in a new post in

Submitted by Lost Wife on Tue, 04/12/2016 - 18:57

I updated in a new post in this thread. I ended up giving him another chance, and he was better than I've seen him in years, but he still invariably went back to his old ways. :( Now just trying to reassess all the facts and make a final decision.

Thank you for asking how I was doing. It is so nice for someone to care enough to do that :)

Can so relate

Submitted by Zapp10 on Sun, 04/10/2016 - 11:05

I understand where you are coming from as so many here do. You are not selfish in your attempts to sort out this huge roll of barbed wire,all tangled, looking for the end to it in order to unravel it. All the while getting pricked and cut but determined to find "the beginning/the end" of it.

I "separated physically" from my H by moving into an upstairs apartment.(so grateful it was empty). I had reached that point where something, some way had to shift the terrible dynamic in uor daily life. We are BOTH responsible for. I had no plan for what was going to happen. No idea what I was going to think, see or change. It was awkward and unsettling.......for about the first week. And then I had a moment of realizing...we needed time apart to take stock of ourselves ONLY. What a wonderful RELIEF. It has taken an enormous effort for me to let go of his "issue" . I have focused on me, myself and I, by looking at the good, the bad and ugly.

In the meantime H did not like that I made this move. I did not give him a long winded explanation....simply that " I do not know who I am, what I think and my reason for being here with you ." He has handled it with his off the cuff sarcasm or passive aggressive comments. It is amazing to me how this time apart has helped ME to see my reactions that did'nt help, AT ALL. I have continued to spend time "downstairs". Initially, too much time as the pattern still continued. Okay, stay away more.....and I did. And slowly I continued to work on myself. IT IS HARD to not think about your H all the time because we have lived so long....in a way that is so wrong. I am going to be the change in my life, which needed to happen....married or not. I don't know if H is doing the same. There is so much he says I don't need to know about him....okay, I can live with that. Did'nt think I could.....but I can. Just knowing that keeps me with hope....for the marriage.....or just for my life.....BECAUSE IT MATTERS.

There was a time years ago I heard the statement " some people just do not get it" and I would be quick to say...nope, not my H. He is far too smart,good, kind hearted and on and on and on.Well guess what? He still has ALL the qualities I love ..........but he just does not get it. I refuse to stand by one more day, while he spends his time and mine beating himself up and when he's tired of that, turning it on me.

At some point you save yourself. How and when you do it is up to you. I do not have another life time to live.

Just a reminder , my H sorta agrees he has ADD BUT it is not THAT bad and he will decide HOW he will "deal" with it. That's his choice.....well guess what.....he is not the only one that has the right to choose.

Enough said:) today is waiting and it's going to be a great one....with him or without.....his choice

What

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Fri, 04/15/2016 - 13:49

I have done

Connecting with someone who knows and understands.....

Submitted by Zapp10 on Sun, 04/10/2016 - 14:28

The very reason I followed this site was because of ones like you. You put into words what happens in this "tornado". And there are perspectives brought to light that allow for further growth in understanding and coming to conclusions. I thank you for sharing your journey, as I hesitate to share mine. I need to hear these.

One of the biggest weights off my shoulders was learning to let" his chips fall where they may". It was hard to undue a lifetime of juggling (a clue to me should have been the balls hitting my head again and again) because I DON'T KNOW HOW TO JUGGLE! But I sure tried. Again I cannot emphasize enough how hard this was for me to let go (Well hello codependence). When I wrapped my brain around that little bugger my attitude took a different route. I hated thinking I was any part of that word.........bout the same as my husband dealing with he has ADD. I would rather swallow my pride than look at it in the mirror everyday and I did that. If I have to look at myself then he has to also and there is the rub. What a shame for him.I do not expect perfection from him. I DO expect effort.

I am in a much better place now. I even believe I can be fair. At some point I have to believe I am able to make a decision and be good and at peace with it. I will not wait for him to decide how I will live the rest of my life.(Excuse me....procrastination?)

My counsel has been all along Jesus. HIM I trust.

You and all the others are on my heart and in my thoughts

I am glad to share

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Sun, 04/10/2016 - 21:57

Zapp10 ,

When I first found this site, I was so wound up with craziness. . . . . .confusion. . . . . .and felt like I may have been stuck in an alternate reality.

I have learned a lot. And my reality is my reality. It is valuable. And, LOL! . . .it is real.

Liz

I value your insight more than you know!

Submitted by I'mNottheProblem on Mon, 04/11/2016 - 13:59

I am right there. Right in the thick of it. I live in one reality, my spouse lives in his, occasionally they intersect and it is not pleasant. We both carry so much weight on our shoulders, and we are both desperate to stay afloat in this sinking ship. Most days, it feels as if someone has poured cement on my shoulders from carrying us both (and our 3 little ones). I'm 36 and I feel 86. I have battled so many battles in my life, I guess I never thought my marriage would be the hardest.... But thank you, truly, for sharing your experiences and insights, I value your wisdom. And not to sound like a creepy lurker, but I live in a really crappy part of Ohio, so I get that frustration too :)

Oh I feel the same as all of

Submitted by dvance on Mon, 04/11/2016 - 16:09

Oh I feel the same as all of us here. Twenty wasted years. I have two amazing sons, ages 17 and 14, but if I had never had them I wouldn't know to miss them, you know? We have nothing-no savings, no property, nothing. If I have $1000 in savings at any given moment, that's a lot. So many bills piled up and barely making a dent. Another poster said something about the two different realities that she and her DH live in-boy did that strike a chord. We travel along parallel tracks and occasionally intersect. Sometimes DH makes a comment or an observation that just blows me out of the water--we see the world so differently. Mostly I have stopped caring what he does and I tell you, it's very liberating. I make plans, go out with my friends, do whatever (within the bounds of my job and being a mom--I'm not a jerk) and I really don't care. For example, the nose piece on his glasses has fallen off several times and he keeps fixing it himself despite the fact that our eye doctor is walking distance and usually doesn't charge for that small of a thing. But for whatever reason he keeps trying to fix it himself. Whatever. Why should I concern myself with that? The odd behaviors out in public are harder to ignore, but not impossible. Just let it go. Rise above it. Save yourself. They don't notice any way. It's quite freeing.

Re: Patterns

Submitted by Zapp10 on Tue, 04/12/2016 - 00:04

I just wanted to comment on your talking about the pattern/cycle thing. Once again I am relieved to hear someone else talk of this. And it does apply to both parties. It was several months ago that I saw the patterns of how I had dealt with this from shortly after the marriage. Not knowing, of course. But then, once we learned(some 35 years later) the pattern was so ingrained with me because ,at least for a moment in time, I had his attention. Not all the patterns involved him. As a matter of fact, one is so ridiculous that when I realized why I was doing it I called my daughter to tell her I would'nt be doing it anymore and what I discovered about doing it in the first place. We both had a good laugh. It goes to asking that question"why are you doing this?" and you can't say" I don't know" cause somewhere in that action is a payoff but it's not fixing anything.

The cycle of being driven to the edge has been broken for me. I like this peace. I want for H to like it too. That being said I believe I am getting better at interacting with him and that matters to me. I still have a ways to go and I am not so sure H is willing for this"set up" to continue but I am confident, whatever he says or does about itt, I will handle it "waaay better" than 6 months ago. I have also come to recognize many of his patterns and am finding "ways" to not participate but encourage him to go for it. No longer am I "the entertainment center ".

I am afraid that I may be coming across as too easily letting go of my H.That I am putting myself first. My life experiences with loss have been many. I am referring to people, not things. Those losses have taught me to value(like I thought I did) even more those in my life and those whose path I cross. My family has a way of leaving this life abruptly, no warning. From my brother at age 24, to my parents, my daughter at 24 and recently my sister(who broke the cycle by getting Alzheimers at 57 and died at 61.) I am no stranger to letting go. My strength comes from God as I would surely not have made it with what the world had to offer. My marriage was always a priority with me because I love my husband. I will always love him. But not being able to live as he has decided to these past several years I do not have to do.... God knows my heart...HE knows my gratefulness for what HE did for me....HE knows my joy at being given this day to live...and live it well......God knows I love my husband and HE still loves me when I crawl up out of the ditches I dive into because I am not perfect. Letting go of the marriage will not mean I don't love my H......I simply cannot live with unaddressed ADD.

There I went again....apologies and appreciation to all of you here. Your valuable insight and humor are much appreciated:-)

Doing the same, with separation

Submitted by dedelight4 on Mon, 04/11/2016 - 21:03

LostWife, I'm so sorry to hear you are in this also. After now 33 years, I had to separate for my sanity and self preservation. It is now beginning to make my ADHD husband think about himself. He may be getting a therapist, (he's talking about it), but until he REALLY does it, I'm not holding my breath. He said he really wanted to change a year or so back, but it didn't happen.

I had lost so much of myself trying to "stick it out", and be a good wife, not argue or call him names, or nag him, but the emptiness, aloneness, non-communication, and non-treated ADHD was more than I could physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually handle after so many years. I'm not telling you to do what I did, but it's a possible suggestion for you.

I told my husband that I needed to separate FOR ME, so that I could sort things out, and learn who I was again. I wanted to know WHO I was again, and feel good about myself again, and not loathe myself anymore for tolerating so much. Even being gone one month has helped already, and all the good things I'm learning has felt GREAT. I'm in an environment where people love me, care about me, support me, and I can even TALK and be HEARD by someone. Just being allowed to talk has been wonderful.

I hope you continue to find solace and encouragement here. Don't be afraid to vent here also, (I have, and so has others) it can get those "feelings" out that stay bottled up for so long.

Praying for you tonight,

Dede

Thank you so much for this

Submitted by Lost Wife on Tue, 04/12/2016 - 18:54

Thank you so much for this post. Your situation and how it feels sounds almost exactly like mine. I want to take that leap to get away, but I don't know how to. I have no money, and nowhere to go, not to mention 3 kids. I'm just stuck in this house with all this awfulness, watching everything crumble around me while I die on the inside. It helps to know being separate has helped. I want to be separate for much the same reason. I took the kids on a week long trip a couple months back by myself and I felt like a different person. Happier. It makes me think the right choice is to separate, at least on a trial basis to start. But how can I do it in my situation?

Thanks again for your post, it really helped.

Hey everyone, here's an

Submitted by Lost Wife on Tue, 04/12/2016 - 18:51

Hey everyone, here's an update, and I desperately need some perspective on our relationship and help with the direction I should be taking. I apologize for the length of this post, but you have all really helped me over the last couple weeks. All the posts really touched me and helped me feel not so alone. I am so appreciative and grateful, seriously.

After the original post I had given him another chance. He really did try. Harder than I've seen him try in a long time. He was wonderful to me, wonderful to our kids. Trying REALLY hard with work (see below for more on our work, it's one of the biggest problems in our marriage). He was more self aware than I've seen in a long time. He even caught his bad behaviors of interrupting and shifting blame and apologized without me pointing them out. He even stopped one of his rages for the first time I've ever seen... (at least for a couple days until it came out anyway... more on that later). After a few days of this, I felt like a new woman. Like a giant, stifling blanket had been taken off my heart and mind. I felt love and respect for my husband again. I felt HOPE. I was smiling and joking and laughing. After just a few days of this! Then, of course... it all went back to hell.

For some perspective, here is more information about my husband and our relationship. PLEASE any thoughts welcome. I need to know what to do.

RAGES: My husband is a rage-a-holic (related to ADHD or not I don't know). He is on a weekly cycle. 3 days of happiness, 3 days of tension building (Where you can sense it building in him) and one day of rage explosion, before the cycle restarts. Sometimes he can make it 10 days with a rage, sometimes only 3. But it ALWAYS HAPPENS. In a rage he becomes emotionally and verbally abusive (told me recently to go kill myself like my mother did and do him a favor :( ). He won't stop until he runs out of whatever emotional fuel is behind it. Then he returns to my sweet husband again for the next 6 days until the next time.

He acknowledges this cycle, and desperately wants to change, but it's still happening. I believe he wants to not do it, but it's like the behavior takes him over. I feel really bad for him, on the one hand. I see his pain and how he hates himself every time. It's destroyed our marriage, and I feel awful because I LOVE my sweet husband, but the monster inside is so awful I feel I have no choice but to let go of him.

WORK RELATED ISSUES: This is a huge deal. He and I are partners and work at home in an art related field. Together our talents are very complementary. I do the first phase of work, and he does the second phase, to produce a total product for clients. We rely on one another totally to keep our income coming in and our careers climbing up. Our careers are why we fell in love in the first place. I loved his work ethic, and tenacity to get things done no matter what.

Because of what I feel are ADHD related issues, in the last few years he's just ....stopped wanting to do his work. For example, we have a GIANT job together for a major client, and I did my half of the work a year ago, finished early in fact. He's still working on his half, and should have been done early last year. But because all of my work is done and paid for, our only income is HIS work now, And he's going so slow we don't have enough to even pay rent anymore. Over the last 2 months, his lack of work has equaled a loss of about 8,000 (2 months rent, month of bills, 2 months of food, etc). I had to put it all on credit because otherwise we would have had no place to live, and no way to buy food.

Due to this problem, I am kept from finding more work in the meantime because he's the other half of what we offer. And I've also taken on the lions share of cleaning house and taking care of 3 bys (including a baby) and have no time to take on extra work on the side. I do this so he has more time to work, but at the end of the day, he only has about 3 hours of work done in a 12 hour work day (longer hours so he can get ahead). It makes me so angry and frustrated that he makes me do all the work in the house so he can "work" all day.

He's also dragging my name through the mud. The big job we got was with one of the biggest companies in the US. good pay and great notoriety. It meant only bigger and better things from then on. But despite me getting my work done early, his slowness has really pissed off our editors, and I doubt we'll get new jobs because of it. He's grown a reputation of lateness and non-delivery in our industry, and he's dragging my good name with him.

I don't know what to do to get him back to working again. He sees our lives falling apart because of this behavior and tries to change, but seems unable to. I've tried scheduling his day for him (worked at first, then he ignored it) I've tried backing off and giving him space (he goes way slower). Our family depends on him to get his work done. Right now we have ZERO in the bank, and his slowness continues.

What do I do? :(

COMMUNICATION: In typical ADHD fashion, he interrupts and has a really bad lack of empathy. I am a sensitive person, and part of why I got married to him was because he was so in tune to my feelings, and sincerely CARED about them. Now, he doesn't care if I cry, or if I'm upset. I am an emotional being who needs a partner there with me. He used to be this, but now he's not. We're working on our communication and it's gotten marginally better, but his impulse control with the things he does and says still controls him.

LYING: Another reason I fell in love with him was his honesty and trustworthiness. Well, last november he came out to me that he's a chronic liar, and always has been. He lies about things to cover his ass. Like with work, he'll tell me he's done with something, then I find out he never even started (huge repercussions with our clients and money). He also has come clean he's been watching Porn for the last 10 years and lied about it. This was a huge hit, because I grew up knowing I could never be with someone who watched it. He told me he didn't , and was never into it when we got together. Found out that was all a big lie. 11 years and 3 kids later, I find out I'm married to someone who does the thing I swore to myself I would never allow in my marriage.

Those are just two of the major things. The point is, he can lie straight to my face, swear on anything, seeming sincere, and convince me of his lies, then go on his merry way without remorse (he admitted he rarely feels remorse about the lies). I have NO trust him him anymore. And what is a marriage without it?

Anyway, Just today, I found out that he didn't make this months work deadline, so we are out another 4,000 for the next month. I am so angry and hurt... I don't know what to do. I just want to take my kids and get out of this life into a better one. They deserve better than this. And so do I.

I sense my husband is a kind and loving man underneath all of these really bad behaviors. He had a horrible childhood, and I don't want to abandon him. But I don't know what else to do if he won't change himself. If I knew this was a phase, I think we could work through it. But as the behaviors persist, does that mean he will never change?

There's so much more I could say. I hope someone can get through that and help me. Thank you :)

Lost, I read you. here's

Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on Tue, 04/12/2016 - 21:04

Lost, I read you. here's one time I wish I were loaded with wisdom and therapeutic training, but I'm not either, so just wishing you well, in very hard times. You know, most of what I read in your update, I kept thinking, that one, your husband, wont get better if he doesnt get help. Not your help, therapeutic help. ..you're a participant

. I dont want you to go through economic hard times, or that hard hard situation of really loving someone who is not licking his problems, but it kept coming back, as I read, to him, that he's the one who needs to manage himself different. NoT telling you what you dont know....

ONLY he can handle his rages. Only he. I dont know what it will take for him to scare himself into seeing that he needs clinical help of some kind, if he sees after the fact that they're damaging and doesnt want them, but hasnt found how to manage them. In the meantime, dont be his punching bag, OK? Loyalty to him doesnt mean you have to stay near him and be dumped on, if he has lost control of himself again. Those words that get said when he's lost it, you dont need to hear. It might help him as well as you if showed the two of you that he has to do his blowout by himself. I've been through some of these.

I dont have advice on anything, though. C on another thread advised two track finances, in your case it would be yours and his. Sounds like you are stuck though, since the immediatenliving depends on work he has procrastinated on.

What a tangle.

It does sound like he's not stepping up, maybe doesnt have...what, I dont know, you tell me, the habits or ? To do it?

Sigh.... Not all guys, but some...they've got their ostrich heads in the sand until...she really walks out that door... And has had it and wont come back, but he's been in Peter Pan and....And then it's Cryin Time... For him...

she having cried and cried for years, and it DidNt Get His Attention...

What an awful situation, Lost. You cant do his part. Only yours.

Sounds like he needs professional help. If he wouldnt piddle around with it. I believe that you love him very much.

Thank you so much for reading

Submitted by Lost Wife on Wed, 04/13/2016 - 02:23

Thank you so much for reading through my giant post and offering your thoughts and advice. It really helps me be feel less alone.

I agree he needs help. He's going to see a doctor next month and from there to a therapist. I feel so done in my heart and soul, but trapped. I feel like I have no choice but to stay here and endure this crap until I am financially able to leave.

My most immediate concern is our work and finances, because I can't even go get groceries right now. Our family NEEDS him to get his work done. I would love ideas from anyone to try.

To help clarify the problem, I feel the issue is part ADHD (not being stimulated enough in the tasks he has) and part his upbringing. He had a very emotionally neglectful childhood. Alcoholic parents who were Hoarders, always arguing and fighting. VERY poor. I feel like he is subconsiously trying to keep us in his childhood "comfort" zone of struggle, rages, and poverty.

Early on in our relationship he was extremely responsible with work and money. Always did whatever it took to hit that deadline. But we were always on the cusp of being broke still, because we just didn't earn much back then. But man, did he crank out that work! As our finances started to get better and better, he started to slow down. Then in the last couple years we got projects that meant easy-street for us. No more struggling for money. THAT'S when he screeched to a halt, and kept us from ever getting to that financially secure place. In fact, with the births of our last two sons, we were BROKE. I begged him to make sure we were taken care of, because I can't do my artwork while heavily pregnant. Well, he didn't. So I had to work 3 days after birth (both times) to make rent and buy food the first few months after their births. I was up all night nursing, then had to stay up all day to work. It was hell.

I say that to show how far he goes to make sure we are always struggling. Whenever there is a clear shot back to security, he dodges and procrastinates. He agrees he thinks he is doing it somewhere on purpose, but it is still a big struggle to get him to see what he's doing on a daily basis. I'll be kicking my ass to take care of kids and house (and work too, I have to work in any spare minute I can to try and earn money) all so he can "work" all day. I'm totally for that... if he was actually getting stuff done. He does anything in his power to not work. He'll get up and down a million times to get something, he'll go online, or just flat fall asleep (those are just a few). When I point out the behaviors, he argues and blames all the "interruptions". The kids, me, etc. I knew it was just bologna, so I went on a trip with all 3 kids by myself to give him a week by himself to really catch up on work. Guess what? He went even SLOWER! When I got back, we were worse off than when I left.

Anyone have suggestions on what to do to try and get him into gear? There are so many issues, but I don't even have to choice to leave until he gets paid for the work he has to do.

LostWife, I agree with Nowornever

Submitted by dedelight4 on Tue, 04/12/2016 - 23:00

Dear LostWife, I hear your total desperation. It comes through loud and clear, AND added strss because you have children. Just like the rest of us, we KNOW you love your husband. But love alone can not fix this. I made that mistake for far too long. remember, you are dealing with someone with a mental disorder, they dont think like a non ADHD'er, or process certain information the same as us. Your example of "being a loving, good Person", usually does NOT SHOW them a better way of being........until they themselves understand how ADHD is affecting them AND the persons around them.

About the "out of control raging".......that is SO not okay. That is abuse, pure and simple. (But not simple by any means) If he looses control, that is dangerous for you and your kids.

Work related issues: My husband also is a workaholic. He has spent most of our married life "working", spending thousands of hours behind a computer screen doing work he didn't HAVE to do, while playing video games on a second screen and watching tv on a third screen. I call It "Command Central". There was no time he allocatef for me and our marriage, but he expected me to accept h7s "work" as proof that he loved me and cared about our marriage. I could'nt get him to unrerstand that I needed attention, hugs, kisses, loving gestures, etc. He would tell me, "I cant quit my job to gives you hugs and kisses 24/7,......SOMEBODY has to WORK around here".

He never saw all the work I did, raising the girls, doing school work, all the cooking, cleaning, chores, laundry, ironing, yard work, cars, working a job on top of this AND constantly cleaning up his huge messes and unfinished projects. On top of this was his very low sex drive, where we had little to no sex. I got only 4 to 6 hours of sleep a night gor YEARS. He never saw or acknowledged any of it.He only complained about how much HE had to do, and it was unfairvof me to ask him to do more.

LyING: same thing. I fell in love with a man who (when we Were dating) told me he despised lying and it was something he tried not to do. I had the same convictions, but little did I know. He's lied to me and others about so much, I Would'NT BE able towrite them all down.

And yet, underneath all the hyperactivity and chaos is a loving caring man. But that man got harder to Find as the years wore on. With him not getting treatment for his ADHD, the defensiveness, always being a victim and blaming everything on everyone else (denial) got too much for me after too many years. I had to leave for me.

I know you are in a precarious spot, and you feel trapped. Is there any family or friends around you who could help in any way?

Your husband needs professional help, you cant help him. Separating your emotional self from him is a start, where I also started.

I am so praying for you........Ive been there, and am beginning my journey of healing. I know there can be better days for you,. Its hard not to obsess about him, but you can begin to train your thoughts in a healing direction. Melissa Orwells book and study things are a good place to start also.

Hugs, dede

sorry about the typos

Submitted by dedelight4 on Tue, 04/12/2016 - 23:50

Sorry guys about all the typos in my posts lately. I'm trying to type on a tablet, and it isnt as good as a computer. Just hope you can read through all the flubbs. thanks

Thank you so much for your

Submitted by Lost Wife on Wed, 04/13/2016 - 02:38

Thank you so much for your post. Your description of your marriage is so close to mine. My heart hurts for all those years you endured. The same feelings, and our husbands sound so similar (blaming, arguing, defensiveness, lying, etc). It has just eaten my heart and soul and left me alone with nothing. I feel a separation is our only option at this point. Right now he's reading a book on marriage, because he's being my "good" husband now. In a few days he'll stop researching and start building up to the next rage.

I know you are in a precarious spot, and you feel trapped. Is there any family or friends around you who could help in any way?

Absolutely none. I know it seems impossible, but it's true. We just moved across the country a couple years ago, and have been so busy trying to get his work situation in order to meet anyone. And honestly, I'm an introvert and have few friends anyway, but I lost any and all energy for friends as our marriage and life have taken it's toll. I'm on antidepressants, and those were helping, but things are so bad now, I think I need something more.

As for family, I have a dad and sister that I only talk to once a year, both of which have mental issues that would not be good to have the kids around, and they live half a country away.

About the "out of control raging".......that is SO not okay. That is abuse, pure and simple. (But not simple by any means) If he looses control, that is dangerous for you and your kids.

I agree with you, it's just been a journey for me to recognize how verbal/emotional abuse is just as bad as physical (I was physically abused in my previous relationship) I realize now, too late, the toll it's taken on my confidence, self esteem, and well-being. Rage-a-holics like him are addicted to the feeling of being out of control It's like a release for them, and my husband has no signs of stopping. :(

Right now his rages are focused on me, and I'm getting better with getting him to go away by himself when he does it. But it's still hurtful and frightening. It's difficult for me to know where the line is, and your post has helped clarify where that is.

Thank you again for being there, and reading, and giving your thoughts :)

Lost,

Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on Wed, 04/13/2016 - 14:12

Lost,

you've thought deeply about his patterns. From what you have said, he's able to talk with you some about it and acknowledge that his anger acting out is not good, and acknowledge that he's not completing work, but still goes on with the rage blowouts and doesnt get his work for the family done.

I so feel for you...you're doing very large gesture things...trying to unblock the blocks he's got, leaving, then coming back, removing you and the kids for awhile, if he says you and the kids being around are the reason he's not working. Really big signals to him. But for him, it's about him, even if he has it understood to himself that you, the kids, the world, are "making" him do things. He sounds like he's acting out two contradictory things at the same time I'M OUT OF CONTROL, I CAN'T DO WHAT I TELL MYSELF TO DO. and I'M IN CONTROL, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME TO DO or WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WANT OR NEED ME TO DO.

I can't tell from what you've written whether or not you are dealing with someone in an oppositional defiant behavior pattern. The therapist is the one to listen and advise about that.

What an awful situation. Reasonable as what you're trying to get him to do is, it sounds like its a situation in which you're triggering him. I'm working only on what you've written, so may be off base. You live the whole of it offline. You'll know from your life there whether or not your requests, reminders, and actions are triggers, that all "set him off". If (IF) he's at that level of meltdown shutdown, and has repeatedly located what you do and don't do a trigger of both meltdowns and shutdowns right now, you telling him or asking about his anger acting out or his undone work will just keep triggering him. Right now. If that's what's going on offline at home, I think your only option at the moment is not to be that outside thing he uses to trigger himself. Only then will he fully have a chance to see that the anger blowouts and work stoppage are coming from inside of him, that he's generating them, not you. In other words, if he's worked himself into a pattern of refusal in response to what to him (regardless of how you mean it) is a trigger, or blow out in response to what to him as a trigger, nothing, not the emergency that the family is in over no present income, nothing, will get him to "reasonably see that he needs to do something" He's not in a rational mode on either one of the things you've brought up, his anger break outs, or his block about completing work.

One of the two of you needs to take care of your wellbeing in the situation, right now, and that's you, not him. Whatever bits and pieces of wellbeing you can get under your present stresses. Which are many. Dont make you getting a nap, or an hour playing with the kids at a playground or looking at flowers in a park wait on his wellbeing. I don't remember that you wrote...maybe you did.. how old the kids are. Remembering my childhood with daily parental rage in the house, I'd guess that no matter how young your children are, they'll be very upset by your husband's losing the plot while at home, and will benefit just seeing you get rest or go do somethng with them that shows them that there's more to the world than the anger and tension at home. Hugs to you. Dont make your pleasures and self care, tiny as moments of peace, rest or pleasure may have to be daily, wait on his getting past what sounds to me like some kind of colossal whole life meltdown. It's going to take him some time to deal with things to the point of improvement. So don't put your self care on hold. You're probably massively overloaded, but squeeze some good for you in. When he begins to lose it with anger, tell him to take it away from you and the kids. Or you take you and/or the kids away from his acting out. Sounds like he needs a way to burn it off. Does he get any serious physical exercise?

when he can talk about therapy suggest that it start with one thing, not all things, first tackling the the work stoppage. What about handling therapy as not about fixing him, but about tackling shared problems one by one, the most pressing one at present being work stoppage

He sounds lik he's out of his mind with anxiety, and into self rebellion, tantrumming with feelings and maybe perceptions that are from a really really young level of personality, about two to four. Because emotionally he's acting like a toddler. I WILL, I WONT, I suspect that you're onto something about him having a crisis related to his upbringing. This Is really stuff for a therapist, an effective one. Of course you can't be his guide and therapist. If whoever he goes to first doesnt pick up on these dynamics you've described, move on to another one.

..I very much appreciate what you said about being an introvert, and th situation at home sucking the remaining energy and self confidence you'd need to make more contact with people, but Lost, he needs outside help, and you need some breaks from the tension and anger at home.

Hugs again.

Hi, NoworNever, I just wanted

Submitted by Lost Wife on Sat, 04/16/2016 - 18:49

Hi, NoworNever, I just wanted to thank you for your reading through all my long posts and giving me just thoughtful input. It's hard for me to find my well-being anymore. My day is literally filled with 3 kids and house and my work, I've really lost who I am as a person. But I'm trying. My kids are 13, 6 and 1, and they're homeschooled, which I love. I'm trying to focus on being a better mom, but I feel like the harder I try to smile for them, the more they see through it. I just feel so sad all the time.

I will take your words to heart and really think on them. Thank you again for your time in posting.

You're doing so much, Lost.

Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on Sat, 04/16/2016 - 19:22

You're doing so much, Lost. You're in my prayers, you and those three young shining stars, and your husband.

Change, Shifting Gears and Work Flow

Submitted by kellyj on Wed, 04/13/2016 - 15:09

Hi Lost,

I just read through the things you've said about your H and there is something familiar in his pattern to me. I'm the one with ADHD here but I can only relate these things to myself.

It seems everything with work (in the past) was Okay and then it wasn't if I read this correctly. You also mentioned having kids in there (before and after ) and moving for a start? This is where I might be able to offer some insight. I don't know if this will help you directly but you may be able to read him better even if he is not able to see some of these things himself or know what to do about it?

First....work flow or just being in flow. I can't begin to tell you how important this is for me. Going back to what ADHD really is? It's not attention deficit like it's name sake tells us.....it difficulty or at times, an inability to manage or redirect your attention to focus on things the same as other people. That means....having to shift gears a lot, make constant of repeated changes to your schedule, duties, tasks or anything you do is more difficult the more you change them. Any changes in routines or how you work is very difficult at times.

Getting into a uninterrupted work flow is tenuous enough by itself but once I find that "sweet spot" and get rolling....I can stay there indefinitely as long as nothing comes in between it or changes that in any way. The worse thing for me is getting hit unexpectedly or suddenly with something that I don't have time to adjust or think about ahead of time. If changes can come slowly and calculated over enough time to adjust...I do Okay. The worse things you can to however....is hit me constantly with lots of changes that do not allow me to get into my rhythm again. Once I lose my rhythm or flow....it's very difficult to get that back unless I have a chance to find that sweet spot again and then stay there without any new changes or interruptions to it.

I've likened this to an analogy I've used for years and I don't think it's that far off the mark....

If I'm in flow and have everything dialed in the way I need it to be to stay there....it's like driving on the freeway at 60 miles an hour. On the freeway...you have no traffic lights, no detours or changes in direction. No intersections or turns to make unless you need to take an exit but that you have plenty of time to prepare for and you are still moving at a constant rate of speed. You also don't have to be looking for other cars coming at you from the side since everyone is moving (flowing )together at about the same speed. There are few changes in your driving and mostly it's just making small adjustments or changing lanes occasionally but you don't have to either. You can just sit in the right lane and go along at a constant speed and faster cars can go around you on the left if you choose to keep it simple and not have to think about much else but staying at a constant speed until you reach your exit. Under those conditions....I'm relaxed and my stress level is low. I can stay that way comfortable, day in, day out without a problem.

Now consider taking a parallel road to the freeway with traffic singles and intersections to deal with. Start...stop. Start....stop. Over and over. Each time...it requires you to put the brakes on and come to a complete stop and then....go from first, second, third gear just to put the brakes on again and never getting into fourth or overdrive ever! This is a night mare for someone with ADHD. That constant shifting gears and putting on the brakes is not only taxing to your energy level....but it never allows you to get into flow again like you are on the freeway where you can get comfortable and then stay there and keep moving without interruption.

I can only speculate about your H since he sounds different than me in some ways (chronic raging and lying ). But....I can relate to what happens to me when I'm hit with lots of interruptions to my "flow" and the struggles this present me if that happens. Any time I am forced out of my work flow and comfort zone or have to make constant changes to it without any relief.....after a while...I start to get overwhelmed and that when things really start going down hill fast.

Once I've been out of my "zone" for too long....it takes an incredible amount of effort and energy to get my momentum back again and I feel like I am constantly dragging and it takes a lot out of me whenever that happens. Everything seems more difficult and I get worn out and tired much more quickly than before. This sounds a lot like what you described with him slowing down and not getting much done? I also find myself looking for distractions more to ease the extra drag and effort it takes just to do the same thins as before. Again....this sounds a lot like what you are describing here with your H as well?

In the last couple of years....I've been struggling with this myself so this is all very familiar to me. There were a couple of nights a while back where I couldn't sleep because I was so frazzled and frustrated over this. I decided to stay up all night and try and get things done when my wife was asleep and nothing would interrupt my flow. I watched how much more I got done without any interruptions or other things to think about and the difference was incredible! This really brought this all to light once again and I started to strategize how and when I work in a dedicated way than I was doing and trying to eliminate any and all unforeseen obstacles.... possible changes..... or things that would cause me to slow down or change directions without warning. Again...the results and improvements in my productivity were noticeable almost immediately in a positive direction and the stress and my irritation level went down along with it.

If any of this sounds similar to you in the things you've been describing.....this is definitely an ADHD problem in managing. Blaming other people of seeing them as the problem sounds like denial of this aspect of your H's ADHD. If I were him....I'd be looking at ways to control this better in the same way I did and find the best and/or worse times and approaches that work and avoid the things that make this even harder for me. Right now....I'm trying to stay on the freeway as long as I can and avoid the surface streets as much as a possible!! lol It sounds like your H would do well to consider this and find what ever works and then get back to that as soon as possible.

The frustration, lack of motivation and procrastination seem to all come from either doing it right...or doing it wrong but for someone with ADHD....finding the right way and staying there without change is extremely important and should not be discounted by anyone else. How someone else does the same thing is completely irreleivant to this and will only make things worse not better by trying to adopt someone else's way of doing work. Just my experience with this going back to when I way very young and nothing is different now years later. It's one of those things that is difficult to explain but very real and unforgiving without question it for a second.

J your knowledge of yourself,

Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on Wed, 04/13/2016 - 20:25

J your knowledge of yourself, concerning your flow and interruptions was very, very helpful to read. I've seen my husband struggling with these very things. I'm a if it's good for the goose, its good for the gander, he's as valuable as I am and vice versa type person, if I have my needs and ways, he has his too and they dont have to be like mine. But that has ben approaching his needs based on principle, not on any understanding of what ADHD related happens to hm if he gets out of the flow. You gave me a view into what happens to him when he gets interrupted again and again, and that's pure gold to know.

How about procrastination, since the OP brought that up. Any approaches to yourself when you're procrastinating? I'm not intervening, if procrastinating happens at our house, I figur he's enough on his case as it is...but then we havent gotten into.the OP's situation that the family needs payment for work completed, to live. How do you get past being blocked by procrastination?

Procrastination - Now vs. Not Now List

Submitted by Mihi Crede on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 07:08

I can't speak for J, but for myself I've found that I've got two very distinct lists - Now vs. Not Now. This is not new to ADHD and seems to be quite common among us. To get past the Not Now list (viewed as Procrastination by others) is a difficult challenge at times. Crazy enough, looking back after taking care of something relatively easy (changing air filters) - I shake my head and tell myself - wtf - why did it take a week or two and nagging to get it done? The house gets upset from my wife over something so simple that would have taken minutes to finish - yet here we are. It's soooo ridiculously bizarre.

So if the task can't be done relatively quick (Now List), I have to schedule it on my smart phone calendar and make it a priority to get it done...or reschedule it again which takes effort - hence get it done. But even if I schedule a task on my calendar, I need to value that task like I would if it were on my own hyper-focus lists that would absolutely get finished. Or more importantly value who was asking for the task to get done in the first place. Anything that doesn't get scheduled on the calendar and is not on my Now List is subject to being forgotten or procrastinated for another day/time.

But my efforts to change did not start happening until I recognized and accepted ADHD. I've always been gifted with the ability to step back and get out of the weeds to see the big picture. I want to be happy as much as I want my wife to be happy - the key is making consistent efforts on a daily basis to find that rhythm or flow that J talks about. Scheduling tasks to get on the Now List is one of them.

Hope that helps.

It's soooo ridiculously bizarre. LOL

Submitted by kellyj on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 09:24

Taking the words right out of my mouth Mihi Crede! lol And I too did not start applying a lot of things I learned from work to my home life until I found out about my ADHD. I'm glad you mentioned the now- not now phenomenon as being different than just run of the mill procrastination....I agree of course without saying it. What I learned form the work that I do I found was something that I fell into over time to help compensate for this. This is the part my wife has a difficult time understanding. What looks completely non-linear with no rhyme or reason to it....is founded on some pretty straight forward established manufacturing practices that have proven to work. I've adopted a modified version of these things to keep myself moving and avoid the now....not now syndrome from causing problems with not getting things done.

Break things down to their lowest common denominator and group like task together even if they are unrelated jobs. The fastest way to go broke in manufacturing is trying to do one project at a time from start to finish. Henry Ford came up with the assembly line over a century ago and it still is being used today for the same reason. I use the same idea when approaching mundane task that I normally would put off or avoid. If I'm sweeping or cleaning.....I do all the sweeping and cleaning at once before I move on to the next group of tasks for example not just the one room or place it really needs it.

Rotate groups of tasks and schedule them individually either by the time of day.... or by the entire week as a whole. For example....Monday is sweeping and floors day, Tuesday is cleaning and organizing day etc....by the end of the week...all the projects come together at once over time in a progression doing them in groups of task not one room or complete job at a time by itself.

Easy and Quick jobs done first and harder, longer more complicated ones get their own entire day to do at the end of the week. This was an easy one to figure out a long time ago in the work I do. This has nothing to do with liking the job or not....it has everything to do with what happens when things don't go as planned! lol Simply put....at the end of the week and not everything is done on time.....it's easier and much less of a problem to call 1 customer to tell them you need more time than it is 10. And usually....the person who's job is bigger and more complex is going to be more understanding than the one who knows it's just a simple easy thing to do and you call them to get more time on a job. This one I learned the hard way and it happens exactly as I just stated it! lol If you pick the job that's the biggest and best paying one first for that reason alone.....you're shooting yourself in the foot! Trust me on that one! lol This ties into reserving and dedicating an entire day to do just one big complex project with no other distractions or diversions to throw your attention off. It may take two or three weeks to finish it based on this since you may need more than one day to complete it.... at least everything else is getting done each week even if you only have one day each week to devote to the biggest best paying projects. You enter this agreement up front with the customer and tell them that you are dedicating an entire day solely for them to make sure it's done right and it has your full attention. I've found, customers who you present this to in that way will usually wait for a better job almost every time.

You Can Have it Now, You Can Have it Done Well, or You Can Have it Done Cheap....but you only get to pick two. I use this to remind myself there is a good reason for this. Trying to do everything all at once in a mad dash for the finish line is fool hardy for the person actually doing the work.....and to do anything well....it's not always possible to do it fast and sometimes that's simply not possible. Shit happens...things go wrong or that bridge it out when you get there....anything and everything can happen so you need to build in enough time not to be rushed into making a mistake. What they say in Golf?......"look up to see a bad shot"...truer words can never be spoken! lol Everyone wants it now....but, that's a personal problem on their part..... not for the person doing the work.....hence, the protocol stated in the the available choices. You can't please everyone and trying to do so only causes more problems for you. Immediate gratification? Get over it! lol (my wife hates this one! lol )

or....in the same day....I will rotate one function in the morning, one function in the after noon and one a night even if they are part of several rooms or several different projects. As soon as I notice I'm fading on one thing....I move on to the next and so going forward and then come back to the place I started and keep rotating until all the tasks are done. They do the same things with line jobs in factories to keep the employees from stagnating by varying the job duties and rotating them in the same way for the very same reason. Boredom....it's a killer having ADHD and a killer to work flow! It's a variation of having more than one iron in the fire but done in a dedicated way.

Avoid agreeing to any hard deadlines or being pressured into making promises you can't keep unless the job is time sensitive in nature. Giving a range of time as a guide line and not committing or promising things deadlines for the future without leaving some room for error, mistakes and any other unforeseen issues to arise that you cannot predict ahead of time. This goes right along with not being pushed or in a hurry to do a bad job. By building MORE time into each job than you really need.....no customer is going to complain when the job is done early. We all know the counter part to doing this the other way....don't we? lol ( my wife hates this one even more than the last one but I don't hear any complaining when I'm done before the time range is up? lol )

One more thing I wanted to mention before I forget.....Lost mentioned she notices that her H moves in cycles. Me too but it's not related to my anger or irritation as she was describing it. Building into anything I do an allowance for this means....there are days when I get there it just not working. Instead of keep banging my head against the wall even if that was the original plan....I rotate or switch days to something else to allow for what I know is going to happen. This entire approach allows for my physical and mental ups and down which is exactly what my wife hates about this system since it's not a simple check list that you go down like grocery shopping and very much non-linear on top of it. Bizarre....yes, without question! lol

What they say...if you can't beat (it).....join (it)....instead of swimming up stream and working harder to do so.....turn and float down stream and stop going against the grain. Work smarter...not harder and get more done in less time in the long run. You can't use a day by day (one day at a time) means for accounting to measure your success doing it this way. Another pet peeve of my wife's since that's not how she see's it and not how she does things but then again....she's not the one doing my jobs and tasks if I have anything to say about this yet it still drives her crazy in how I approach things like this and cannot understand why I do things in this way. This is why and it works for me to help reduce the procrastination and the now / not now phenomenon. Just one mans method I guess? That's about all I can say:) lol

A lot of good information here!

Submitted by Mihi Crede on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 11:47

Rotate groups of tasks and schedule them individually either by the time of day.... or by the entire week as a whole. For example....Monday is sweeping and floors day, Tuesday is cleaning and organizing day etc....by the end of the week...all the projects come together at once over time in a progression doing them in groups of task not one room or complete job at a time by itself.

I'm always fighting to get everything done on a cramped weekend; I need to adopt this type of schedule. If most of the work is done by Friday; I'm way more amiable to odd projects that pop up and don't feel overwhelmed.

Easy and Quick jobs done first and harder, longer more complicated ones get their own entire day to do at the end of the week.

This one I already do from my work experience as well; somehow the brain is already on 'default' for the path of least resistance.

Avoid agreeing to any hard deadlines or being pressured into making promises you can't keep unless the job is time sensitive in nature. Giving a range of time as a guide line and not committing or promising things deadlines for the future without leaving some room for error, mistakes and any other unforeseen issues to arise that you cannot predict ahead of time. This goes right along with not being pushed or in a hurry to do a bad job. By building MORE time into each job than you really need.....no customer is going to complain when the job is done early. We all know the counter part to doing this the other way....don't we? lol ( my wife hates this one even more than the last one but I don't hear any complaining when I'm done before the time range is up? lol )

I'm way on board on this one - and in my world we call it 'Under selling and Over performing'. I have a bad habit here at the house and selling the Sun and then have to settle for the Moon; end result is still a positive one...but leaves a bad taste when you didn't get what was 'as advertised'. We now will be selling Moons in my house! Ha! Not for deception purposes - but setting realistic expectations.

Good stuff! Just in time for me to bust out some items on the list before Friday gets here!

Re: Lost

Submitted by Zapp10 on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 00:19

I hope that you continue to post here. The insight of both sides of the story from other posters is so valuable. In regards to finances.....that is such an IMMEDIATE issue and I am sorry for your situation. You can't navigate around it like you can most of the other "problems" with ADD (once you learn to recognize how it affects them. Do we ever get there?). You have children to take care of. It's bad enough and then let's make it ...oh let's see....harder? No money? WHO does'nt get you need money to live? J's insight on this is extremely helpful.(about the work business). My H had an extremely difficult time with his job(always). We see now that it was the ADD. The last several years before he retired were literally a nightmare for him. So sad we did'nt know because I can see where accomodations could have been made to help him......but he would have never said anything anyway because he would have been mortified to say he had ADD.

This is so difficult for EVERYONE.....who do you help first? You can't help your kids if you don't take care of you. I don't know if this is putting it right but when you focus on you and your responsibilities and less on him it creates "breathing room". It doesn't happen over night but it does come. You get your perspective back. There IS hope.

I functioned for several years losing hope.....and then it actually left. I was not in a good place. I forgot I was some one besides a wife, mother etc. I was ME. I forgot about me! (I blame no one but myself for letting me disappear). I truly never thought I would feel hope again but I do. Not necessarily for my marriage( I never ever expected I would EVER not be married to my H) but for ALL involved. I want us to be good with who we are as individuals, however things work out.

You are so in my thoughts and prayers. The people here, as well as this site are a Godsend.

Hi there everyone. Thank you

Submitted by Lost Wife on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 13:21

Hi there everyone. Thank you so much for all of this wonderful insight. You have no idea how much it helps. And holy moly the Now/Not Now list is legendary with my husbabnd. With unrelated work things he's made some strides in doing tasks on the Not Now list. But with work, nothing we've tried with other things seem to work. ALL of his work seems to be on the Not Now list, even though he is working on it for 12-15 hours per day, all week long (if that makes sense). He goes SO SLOW that he only get's done with 10-20% of what he is capable of in that time. Meaning we only get 10-20% of the money we need to survive.

Let me try to explain further, as everyone's insight is so incredibly helpful.

We have a weekly deadline. Every week, we sit down and figure out what needs to be done, and how much. I've started doing a weekly and daily schedule for him, because he says he's better with one, and I agree. I wanted him to do his own schedule, but he has a huge problem with underestimating how long work tasks take. So the few times he did his own schedule, he blew it within the first hour. So anyway, I make his daily schedule. I put in "buffer" time to absorb any issues that could get in the way each day. I readjust his schedule if he gets off track so healways has an up to date guideline.

The problem is, that no matter how much "buffer" time he has, zero to a lot, he will ALWAYS get done with 10-20% of the days work. I've even put in entire days of extra time to pad things even more, and every time, he goes so slow it can take him 3-ish weeks to get done with 1 weeks worth of work. I keep doing the schedule, because without it he goes at about 5% speed. I am definitely micro-managing him, and I HATE it. But when we have no money for food or rent, I don't know what else to do.

He definitely goes slower when we've had more money. Like when I was doing my part of the work, I cranked it out and got paid for is all early, we had almost a half years salary. His work ground to a halt until we ran out of money (yes, for 6 months). Then he'll start going a little faster. But at times when we REALLY need money (such as when I had given birth to our sons), the months beforehand (when I can't work) he also grinds to a halt. If rent is due next week and is dependent on his work, he grinds to a halt. In between these times, it's the aforementioned 10-20% speed.

It's just crazy to me, because for the first 4-5 years of our relationship, he was on TOP of things. I mean, there was forgetful behaviors and the like, but nothing that would make it so our family was not taken care of. He worked as long as it took, and as quickly as it took, to make sure stuff got done. I fell in love with that security he offered. We always had rent, we always had food and the necessities. Around the birth of our second son (his first child, our oldest is from my previous relationship) he started to go downhill, a 6 year journey that ends up where we are today. He started missing major deadlines, paychecks took longer then stopped. His side projects, he procrastinated on so long, the people who paid him for work threatened to sue him (this has happened about 3-4 times. The threat always made him jump back into gear and get their work done). Of course he blamed everything else, but as I took on more and more because I believed him that the children, house and I were the problem, the slower he went.

Now it is the situation I mentioned. Where all deadlines are blown, no paychecks are coming in, and I take care of most everything else so he can spend all day getting done with almost nothing. I am obviously resentful of everything, and so tired. And what makes things worse is, at the end of the day when confronted yet again with his lack of work finished he says "but I've been sitting here all day, working hard". He is oblivious to that fact he may be sitting at his desk all day, but that doesn't mean he's doing what needs to be done in that time. He actually BELIEVES he's worked at his full potential for the day.

Anyway... sorry for the ramble. Oh, and the work flow thing sounds a lot like him too. I've seen him "in the zone" before, and it's like magic getting work done. But it's like almost nothing I or he does gets him in the zone anymore. Is it just not stimulating to take care of his family any more? :( I'm hoping for any more insight! What has been posted already is so helpful. Thank you all. :) Your support has really cheered me up considerably.

I hope J and/or Mihi can

Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 14:36

I hope J and/or Mihi can offer insight concerning the faster and slower work speeds.

I was wondering about depression. I've had periods of serious depression in my life, fewer and fewer as time goes on thankfully but nevertheless, I've been through long ones, and I've always had to keep a job & my kind of work has always been deadline driven. Boy, talk about productivity declining! It becomes very hard to address deadlines, if you're depressed... there's something like emotional brain fog, and listlessness, a hard struggle with not caring, a hard struggle with neglect of self. Things like obligations to other people and deadlines become fainter and less real. When I've been depressed, it has taken considerable interior muscle to deliver the goods in my job. I have no idea whether or not your husband is dealing with this, but I suspect (but don't know) that people with ADHD and people without it experience depression pretty much the same.

Yes...Depression Definitely NON

Submitted by kellyj on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 15:39

I have times of mild depression that occurs when I get overwhelmed and am there for too long. This goes right along with my successes or failures to accomplish things I've set out to do and for what ever reason....don't meet my own expectations for my self. When I feel like I've disappointed people I care about....this gets even worse for me. When that happens....it feels like I'm dragging a dog sled loaded with cement bags around with me and I can't seem to get anything done. Either that...or swimming in a pool full of Jello take your pick. lol

Depression and Work Motivation

Submitted by Mihi Crede on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 17:52

So for me like J, I know I've had Depression and it's like working through sludge. And your mindset goes through 'Why should I bust my ass? For what?...Nothing seems to matter or make a difference.' But those feelings are usually very fleeting. I have so much distraction (squirrel!!) that I'm finding that dopamine to fix the depression; video games, hobbies like BBQ or Home Brewing. Now that the video games are gone, I'm searching for that fix at night and sometimes it bugs my wife; she looks at me funny when I ask her to give me something...lol...anything to do.

The work motivation is much different; I'm in sales and my pay is contingent on selling. I was raised by parents that instilled the basic principles that life will put you on the streets if you don't work. Life doesn't give a rats ass who you are and you're only as good as your last day payday. So, when I look at my book of business and the budget I'm given...I'm scared to death until I know I can hit budget. I can't relate to the stories of spouses that aren't afraid of losing their house, electric or anything else that would be gone if you can't provide. I would say they need desperate help in 'focusing' on the basic principles of survival; whether through meds, clinical therapy or whatever. I have a wife and two kids that I do not want on the streets; I embrace that fear because it keeps me sharp.

I really feel for those spouses that are struggling with their ADHD other half when it affects the security of their home and shelter. I pray for you and I hope your spouses 'wake up' because they need to.

This is the kind of extremely

Submitted by PoisonIvy on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 23:17

This is the kind of extremely serious situation in which I advise taking a drastic step: imagine what you would do if your husband were dead. When I say "dead," I mean "totally unable to provide any financial support for you and your children." What would you do? Would you tell your clients that he was dead and you need to do all jobs on your own? Would you go into a different business? Those are just possibilities; I don't know what you would do, but I suggest thinking about it in those terms and then strongly considering taking whatever actions you would if your husband were no longer in existence. Because truth is, there's nothing you can do to get him to work if he doesn't want to.

I understand the part of when he knows you have money....

Submitted by overwhelmedwife on Mon, 04/18/2016 - 08:10

I understand the part of when he knows you've worked hard to get "your work" paid first, and suddenly you have 6 months of pay, and then he stops working.

I have to HIDE the fact when I get lump sums of large money. It goes into an acct that he doesn't know about. Why? Because if he knew there was that much set aside, he'd stop working as much. (He's retired and helps me with my business.)

I even have to hide money set aside for emergencies (home and business) because, again, he'd think that was spending money....and it's not. It can't be spent on living expenses because it would be needed if something major happened...like new Heat/AC was needed in one of the business buildings.

I also understand the gross under-estimation of how long it takes to do something. When we moved recently, we down-sized our empty-nest home. One of our bedrooms was literally being used for storage of our unpacked moving boxes because we didn't want the garage to be unusable. H declared that he could empty all the boxes and put everything away in 3 hours. I was like....what? 3 hours? It will take 3 solid days! It is full of moving boxes filled with our china, crystal, family photo books, memorabilia from trips and our kids' childhoods, old yearbooks (ours and kids), out of season clothes,and on and on and on.

He started and worked hard, but only made a small dent after working all day.

He always grossly underestimates time ....even with jobs he's done before.

With your husband, what if you sat with him while he was working to keep him on task and working at a realistic pace.

What exactly is preventing him from working at a productive pace? Distractions? OCD behaviors? My father in law allowed distractions to prevent work getting done, which is why he opened his own business. He had to. His employer wasn't happy with his inefficiencies, so he had to work for himself. He bragged about "owning his own business," but it was obvious that he made little money from it. When my mother in law went to work for him, she immediately saw that he wasted time reading the newspaper, magazines, and writing long-hand LONG letters to everyone.

Definitely an ADHD Thing

Submitted by kellyj on Mon, 04/18/2016 - 12:21

OW....what I have discovered about this? For myself only here.....this has to do with several things all operating in unison. As my T described ADHD in a very simplistic form ; if you look at an engine or motor....it will have a set point or rpm that it operates most efficiently. If you take humans and look at how the brain operates and functions best....there is also a set point or range (rpm) that it wants to be to function at it's best. For people with ADHD...that sweet spot or rpm level is lower than the brain wants it to be. I think part of it has to do with extra work that it has to do...to filter out the parts that are not getting done automatically like most other people. That requires more energy to do the same thing (hence...why stimulants work to give you the extra 'umph' that is missing. Without that extra "umph" added....you look for things to stimulate you into that sweet spot or "rpm" level where it's not getting loaded up or bogged down before. This is the attraction to things that do this for you.

What I have really come to discover...is what this "feeling is". That feeling or "itch" that tells me I need more "rpms" to function at peak efficiency when my "neurons aren't synapse-ing" the same as before. I think several different possible outcomes happen when this happens.....

I start to hyper focus more to do the same thing. Great....hyper focus works great to get things done and help keep me in the zone but...now the time thing starts coming into play. When I go into hyper focus....time stand still from the inside perspective. In reality....I think your internal time clock stops until you go back out of it again. I've noticed....you look at the time and then go into hyper focus. What seemed like 10 minutes was actually 20 or 30 minutes instead. But this is only in hyper focus mode....the rest of the time....my time clock works fine and 10 minutes seems like 10 minutes. Nothing wrong with my time clock....it's the hyper focus that throws this off.

The other scenario comes when you need a break. I need regular breaks to keep myself moving consistently. Once (10 or 15 minutes) every 2 hours is not enough as the law requires. I find I need at least one 5 minute break every hour to work effectively and consistently or I start to fade and slow down. If I get that 5 minute break....I get way more done than 15 minutes every 2 hours. That's just the way it is....nothing you can do about that. But.....if I go into hyper focus for too long during my break.....5 minutes turns into 15 minutes without me being accurately aware of the time.

So if your H is only aware of the times he is not in hyper focus and his time clock stops functioning properly....he will think it only takes so much time to do something base on what he remembers from the past when his time clock is working and he is not in hyper focus and that is what he goes by to estimate the time to do something.

I've found...the only way to get an accurate reading on this....is to time myself by the clock since I will always be wrong if I try and gage it by what I think I know and that will be consistently wrong. I've found my error margin to be in the range of 15 to 30 minutes on average so....I figure my time and add 30 minutes to everything I come up with in my head.

Bottom line....your internal time clock can only be trusted as long as you don't go into hyper focus and hyper focus comes more often...the more you get drained of energy and your neurons stop synapse-ing like they should. This turns into a curve if you laid it out on a graph so it's constantly changing and diminishing over time. That's why.....we're late so often or not being on time as far as I can tell. You can trust the fact that your internal time clock works only part of the time if you want to be on time.

Once I went on medication.....this changed that curve dramatically. I go into hyper focus less since I need it less. I also need less breaks than before and recover faster when I'm on it. This is one of those things that no matter how hard you try......you cannot do anything about this phenomenon except....with medication or a dedicated regiment or structure and external cues (bells, whistles timers etc) to tell you when it's time to change or do something different.

Once I did this.....I've found that 30 minute addition to my time estimates gets me there right on time almost every time now. An hour is better with lots of room to spare but sometimes I don't have that hour and my schedule demands every minute to count. That's where the 30 minute window comes in and usually.....I find that 30 turns into exactly enough time to compensate for my own inability to guess-timate time.

As far a underestimating how long it would take me top move, pack, load boxes and such? Three hours is just crazy! That sounds like someone who has little experience in doing that before? This is not necessarily and ADHD phenomenon I think since....I have noticed in many of the skill sets that I do process.....that other people who have never done these things....consistently underestimate how long they think it should take to do something like these despite the fact that I'm telling them "NO"....you try it.....and then come back and talk to me about it! lol

Sounds more like this one example with with your H but you already mentioned in the past how he strugglew with doing physical things of this nature. I was born with a lot of innate ability in doing things with my hands and mechanical ability and not everyone is like this. This is one of those areas where I never had to try or put any effort in to things like I do....it just came naturally and I have no explanation for you there? In that regard....this could also be the case with your H (no innate ability?).... but add on top of it just not being aware of the other part I was saying (the ADHD part)...and you've got Cluster-F*&%k on your hands when it comes to time! I do understand this even if can't see it himself. It's all about awareness and making an effort to figure these things out since it's not something you will figure out alone or by yourself without some help in doing this for you. There just no way that can happen I believe?

I like what Mihi said about himself and I feel the same way.....there's a point you just get tired of it all and that's when you start really finding out what you can do about......or not?

But the first part ( not the inexperience non ADHD part) also includes needing a fire lit under your butt sometimes to get you moving. I think this is why it's easy to slack off when the pressure is off. For me.....too much pressure and I get overwhelmed and that's no good. I get nothing done when that happens. Not enough pressure and theres not enough stimulus to get me going on the other side of this.

If you look at that last sentence and apply what my T said about "rpm" range and being below on average and how the brain likes a certain range to stay in to function at peak performance.....it fits into that perfectly. The sweet spot where the brain wants to be is right in the middle.....too high or low....and it doesn't work the same. Picture a car going up hill but no gears to shift down from high to low..... to keep the "rpms up" and the motor from loading up and bogging down.....I think that's a perfect analogy right there. Again....it's why Adderall works to do this for you so you don't have to. At least for me....this works like a charm.

FYI- Nagging or pressuring in that way does not count for lighting a fire under our butts. That is a totally ineffective way of doing that even if it works on occasion....just to be sure. The only way to do this right....is for the person to want to in the first place. You can't make someone want to do this and nagging falls more into "forcing or making you against your will" and that never works in the long run for everyone involved.

To J and Mihi

Submitted by Zapp10 on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 22:03

I am beyond grateful for your side of the equation. In the last year I have been able to understand the ADD a little better with the TIME issue(now,not now). You bring more clarity to it and I am all about learning and understanding all that I can.(My frustration is with my H not seeking to understand himself and the ADD

The time issue is really very simple to him.......HE DOES"NT HAVE ANY!!!! He retired 4 years ago. He thought he would be able to relax and FINALLY have the time to do EVERYTHING(squirrel! tractor! fish! music! building! planting! haying!coffee! traveling! gun! guitar! church!more coffee! wood shop! hunting! trees! build a bridge! build a windmill! more coffee! LOL) He is amazing what he can do and he earned his retirement. I was thrilled for him to finally have the time(even tho things had been going badly for the previous 3 years). 3 years into retirement I said "you have 10 hours more a day in your life and you still don't have enough time...what's wrong with this picture?" He did concede and has set up a "list" for himself. VERY proud of his list. And eventually it does get done.....WHENEVER. LOL( like, if the roof is leaking put a bucket under it. There, all done) I so wish he would read this forum. He needs to connect with those that have ADD. He is well aware of how spouses handle it and the experience wasn't good. I feel I have come a long way with a long way to go but he doesn't say anything...sigh.

In frustration, right before I moved upstairs, I said to him...either you have ADD or you're a jerk....which is it going to be? I will work with you and support you if it's ADD. If you are a jerk...the gloves are coming off.(tongue in cheek....he has a sense of humor:)

Looking forward to future insight.....I love the aha moments when it clicks in my brain what is going on. Is it ADD or God forbid,is it me? (wink,wink,bob's your uncle ....)(inside joke between H and me)

Just a quick add on.....a few years before he retired they instituted time clocks....OMG! MAJOR MELTDOWN! NOW I understand why. Stinking time! You mean I have to start work NOW instead of NOT NOW? The last time he was on time for ANYTHING was 44 years ago....our wedding day. I could not believe he never got called out for being consistently late or he did but didn't tell me. I am also aware that he is depressed......which goes over as well as trying to discuss ADD issues. sigh

amazed husband hasnt been fired for lateness

Submitted by dedelight4 on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 23:07

This has hecome a huge problem for my husband the past couple years, but especially this year. Being a professor at a College he needs to be in class On TIME, otherwise the students just leave. He's missed so many classes this year due to sleeping in. He sets his alarm (and several) but still sleeps through them.

He's been forgetting when and what day he's supposed to be there, and doesnt show up. This is not good, and he knows this. He puts reminders on his phone, and still doesnt make it. He is depressed about the fact that this job didnt turn out the way he was sure it was going to be.

But the lateness is concerning me, because he is our only source of real income. It concerns him also, but its dtill haPpening.

Waking up

Submitted by Zapp10 on Thu, 04/14/2016 - 23:54

I can so relate. I spent the first 30 years getting my H up. It was awful (why did I do it? Young,naive ,just plain stupid?). I would be up starting the day....fixing a full course hot breakfast....that ended up cold half the time. NOTHING got him up without a struggle. I would yank blankets off on the 3rd time or raise the mattress so he fell off. I would weedle, coddle, beg.....OMG! how pathetic was I? He could be very surly and down right mean. 10 years ago I stopped cold turkey. He was furious. Why wouldn't he be? I had taught him to count on me.I never woke him up again and he played all sorts of games with the alarms and this and that.He has no idea to this day that I would be on pins and needles wondering if his paycheck would be less because he was late.I have come to see that the ADD truly must play a part in this as no one , in their right mind, could JUSTIFY this...oh ..wait...he never JUSTIFIED it....he said it was my responsibility as a wife.....and I believed him.....WTH was wrong with me!?

I would like to hear from ones with ADD about this issue.

I wake up at 5:30am every day

Submitted by Mihi Crede on Fri, 04/15/2016 - 07:04

I'm not military; but I might as well wake up like I have been. I gravitated to coffee when in college as a means of staying focused. I had no idea I had adhd and to this day, a K-cup is burned as soon as I walk downstairs at 5:30am. And if I sleep on the weekends past 7am, I can count on a headache waiting for me. My industry is in construction and starts before the sun is up and ends at dark; my phone is often my office and can go off any time.

However, waking up and going to work is a survival instinct that is non-negotiable; it is what it is and we live for the weekend (TJIF everyone!). At retirement in twenty years I guess I'll get to figure out what to do. I can't see that light yet as my investments tell me I'm nowhere close. So, up and away I go every morning to the Rat Race.

But, that being said - I lightly wake my wife up every morning as she gets going a little later than I do and she does not have adhd. I don't have to go to the extremes you do in getting your husband up. I just turn on the lights and every once in awhile wake her a second time. I'm glad to do it as the alarm is not fun to wake up to blaring away until you hit it with a sledgehammer.

So questions come to mind; is he going to bed early enough to get enough sleep? Does he have issues sleeping at night? Too many variables to know for sure and can be a whole different problem.

Anyways, have a great Friday everyone! The Rat Race awaits!!

My ADHD husband is an early

Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on Fri, 04/15/2016 - 14:41

My ADHD husband is an early riser, and gets himself up. Mihi, I see some general parallels in approach to work between you and him as well. In both your cases, delivering in a hired job is a non negotiable...and got worked out long ago. You both have been at your profession for a long time. My husband does a superb job of his. I bet you do too. In my partner's case, he grew up and went through most of his adult life without a financial safety net. It was his labor for pay, or he didn't eat. That began very early in his life

There is more work to be done in life than work for pay or work to achieve professional excellence. And it's not a small amount.

I'm sometimes vexed at how much online that is written to spouses of people of ADHD tells them to adjust, accept, adjust, accept. Yes indeed, learning needs to happen about ADHD and acceptance of one's partner for who he is and his ways, yes indeed. I've adjusted quite a bit to his ADHD needs and ways, and I have more changing my own expectations and ways to do. He's also hard at work changing related to me. That he is brings tears in my eyes...there have been other men in my life, but I've never been with one who wants the relation to work more, and not just for him.

But attitude doesn't really make change. It's the change, in time and space, that matters making a difference. And some of the changes have to help me. His challenges are not more important than mine are (nor does he say they are), and vice versa. This is not a relationship between a person with ADhd challenges and gifts, and a helper who plugs all leaks picks up all slack.

So one more time, probably because I find the description of workload borne by spouses of people with ADHD often to be alarming, and because this is at present the greatest issue for me in this relationship with this wonderful person, one that to me has all kinds of danger signals on it,once again, I'm writing about the non-hired management, planning, physical care, etc, whch Lost, I understand that you're doing for your family, in addition to the work-for-pay that you're doing alongside your husband.

My husband has I think great, special to his ADHD, inventve, effective self discipline in completing his work for pay...I think he has on top of it a very admirable work ethic in work outside the home....

as for work that he's not hired to do or responsible to people outside the house to do, he doesnt do very much of it. At first he did 0% between us.

That was a continuation of how he handled his life before. I had plenty of time to see how he handled ths part of his life before we married. He did close to 0% then. He just didn't get into it. He wasn't taking care of himself beyond a very short list of things he did for himself, he took no care, ever or nearly ever, of the place he lived in, of his nutrition, of anything other than a cluster of activities which he pursued with vigor. This is not an accusation of anything. I've been in enough places in the world and have had to live with my own neglect of my own care that I know and am relaxed about it that people live in all kinds of ways.

As I currently understand things at home, there are about three different kinds of reasons why his time and labor for our wellbeing that is not via his for pay job is so light Maybe a fourth. Each of them needs a different approach, probably.

This kind of work --running a budget, keeping things in repair, cleaning, doing some parts of relationship tending with others, doesn't exist to him. (isn't on the visible horizon of possibility at ALL). I'm not carping here. I'm being sincere and even have some appreciation of this reality, if I've seen correctly that he doesn't see it ergo it doesn't exist in his consciousness. He doesnt notice, physically, the way I do. That's a fact. For all of his very impressive intelligence, doesnt seem to trace a predictive line between a current physical state, state of relational affairs or financial event or situation....and an outcome. The ability to see, observe the relation between physical event and yet unseen outcome, or between social act and probable response to it, or between purchase and later financial difficulty or benefit are very needed for any finetuned maintenance of a shared relationship among adults. He's an ace at this kind of thing in his professional work. He's not an ace at this kind of things in many parts of the rest of his life. Looking at what's in the present and seeing, reliably, from what you see, what's going to happen later is partially developed through practice. I think some things in his ADHD acuity militate against his getting that practice. As a result, he doesn't notice, and doesn't see probable outcome. What he doesn't notice, he doesn't put on his worklist, nor value doing. I really hope that by the way I'm writing about this, I 'm not suggesting that I think, if this is going on, or whenever this is going on, that he's being an immature slacker. I instead consider that there is something going on with connecting the present to the future, or with an ability to track and remember certain kinds of processes. Sure people can learn, change and do. But I consider seriously what happens if a person doesn't have the same kind of memory capabilities that I do, or mental-visual register of a physical field that I do.

or he's not going to do it (there are certain tasks that he's taken stock of and will not do...they're boring and menial...and it doesn't move him to change his mind about doing them to understand that they bore me and are menial to me, as well....he's just gotten to NO about them; I respect those NOs. But who's going to get the work done...I join the chorus who ask that question. No, no, there is nothing in human nature or in any religion that specifies that only one of the two does the dumb boring stuff. But at any rate, while I totally respect his NOs, he's not going to do THAT, who does the scutwork?)

, or yes, there's some recognition of need to be done, and it's sincere on his part, but ADHD attention issues, mess making and/or executive function problems do hamper him. My husband works his tail off in this area, not only for himself, but for us. He's had a very daunting life in some areas, trying adn having something slip out of his hands, or go sideways on him. He goes after what he does take on to do, for us. ....and again my reference point is not you all, in this area, but how men in my past life, who as far as I know didn't have ADHD, did, in working for the good of someone other than themselves. My husband ACES every other man in my life in this third area, in intention, in persistence and in effect of effort. I don't care how many plates he drops and breaks.

In the case of all three of those situations, me pecking at him from the outside, making lists for him, or trying to make him make lists of tasks that are not hired work related but we need done, making a plan for his execution or pestering him will have no effect. I'm speaking of my husband's personality and developed life habits, not about all people with ADHD, who of course in life experience, self-managaement, and born capabilities are all different. Just my hub.

So my husband gets himself up, and from long ago dealt with the reality that if he doesn't deliver his work for pay he won't get paid. But there's more to life, both more responsibility and care, and more fun, than doing work for pay. I'd say that my husband splits his time between his work for pay and his often necessary but also often voluntary, breaks from it and amusements. I'm just getting the hang of how he does handle himself regarding his own productivity, which is nearly all trained on his professional work. What to other person is procrastination or working a short load, to him is, I start to see, handling his own attention patterns and frustrations. So his work rhythm is different from mine....our skills of using our attention are different. And beyond that, beyond what I'd call needed breaks, he spends time on amusement. I don't resent that he does, but I'm still working away like a donkey that day. He's earned the break that he put on his schedule for himself. Like J says, some days it is so bunged up with interruptions to his attention and frustrations, that he cant work. So he starts over again the next day. Me, it's my way, I'm plodding along regardless of how frustrated I am, but then I don't have ADHD neurology. Heh, I save up my frustrations, because I do this darned sucking it in and keep going, for an occasional kaboomie....or go get some exercise.

And very most likely in our case, at our house, it looks to me about the man I know that, on many days, he's doing all that he can do, because my husband's very strong performance in his work for pay takes a HUGE amount of his mental, etc energy, huge, I'd say he's most likely cranking out more kilowatts per minute in his self management to keep himself on task and not walk away from it when he's frazzled than I do, he pretty much let everything except what was closest to his attention lapse in his life....even kinds of self care.

My husband and I have pretty strong personalities. He's his own man. My professional management past could tell me that it wasn't going to be a situation with of us of me ordering him around, being his mommy, being his pink collar secretary, treating him like a kid needing to be led around on a string. Not my husband. I shrink from doing those things anyway, and I adore his integrity, independence and all kinds of things, no I'm not going to hector him.

No, I could see that any change concerning shared work, after his lifetime of not ever doing it for himself ...or for anyone else, since (as far as I can tell...my guess at the moment from watchng and pondering) to a great degree his issue with it was #1 above, not on his mental horizon at all, changes between us concerning that kind of work would not happen by me hectoring him OR me picking up all the slack. I have tried to pick up all the slack in a past relationship or two and without elaboration, it really broke me down.

So right now my biggest thing in front of me is that something has to happen to the workload on me, in a way that makes allowance for the flourishing of both of us. I don't have this problem solved. We're working on it. As I wrote to Delphine, it's starting to dawn that the only way forward on this is to simplify our life, outside of the activities that we most hold dear.

I understand that what I'm talking about in this post is not just blowing off steam, or whining, and I don't find much help professionally about the matter, whereever I look. I suppose every shared solution needs to be invented by the couple.

I'm grateful that I'm not having to suffer through what I think is really suffering, that's not an overstatement, of being yoked with a partner who cannot be depended on to bring in his part of the bacon for the family. That to me (coming from my impoverished childhood) would be absolutely terrifying. And if we had kids who needed to be fed and clothed? Oh, my goodness. That's very bad to have to live with. There are all kinds of stabilities in the family that depend directly on that lowest level of well being, having food, shelter, warmth....

But even in my situation, there's a lot on the line over the he's working single she's working double. Again, I don't think I've seen professional writing that really thoroughly addresses the fact that ADHD in either partner, or both, tends to add work, and balance of workload and the extra work is a very big deal. Sorry, hiring a housecleaner doesn't deal with the tip of the iceberg. And in this national and international economy, many families can't hire work out.

Why it's a big deal for me: if I go on doubled up on work, my husband and I will put ourselves into the situation that gets written up over and over and over again in the news: exhaustion is a bodykiller. Exhaustion brings on strokes. It can be in the causes for cancer. It is a culprit in autoimmune diseases. It can lead to suicide, although I'm not a candidate for suicide. I know from my past life that overwork itself produces depression. It kills intimacy...what intimacy, if someone is literally being worked to death? It makes the overworked person sad...and so on. This stuff is medical, clinical fact, all over the news.

And I can report, not only for myself but with some confidence about this from what I've heard other women say, that a too imbalanced workload, where one does more than what her/his limits are, is a sexual intimacy killer. Overwork can kill the entire relationship. For that last claim, I draw on what women in my circle of acquaintances have gone through, and say about themselves. It's not going to kill mine, but right now I don't yet know how to deal with this gorilla of work that sits on our relationship. I'm not peevish about my husband. But WE've got a problem if I'M exhausted, 24/7.

Wish us well offline. My dear one and I don't have solutions to this, but we're at it. Both HAVE to be able to survive and thrive in a relation. And add kids and it ups the ante even more.

....this got long, I think because I needed to say some bottom lines to myself, again, today, prune off the emotionally laden vocabulary and ask myself the hardball question again (it bears asking from time to time, and answering), "well, Now, what ARE you going to do different from what you've been doing."

bed time or sleep usually 3am

Submitted by dedelight4 on Fri, 04/15/2016 - 11:20

My husband usually goes to bed at 3 am, and even if he goes to bed earlier, he still forces himself to stay awake until he can put his head down and fall asleep immediately. He is so overtired, but cant see that hes forced himself into this. He prides himself in this.......... "I am up half the night doing work for you people, so that we can have a nice house and have food" But whether he was married or not, he'd still have to go to work so HE could eat. But he uses us as his excuse to behave the way he is behaving.

Now, there is NO one left in the house except him, thats using or doing anything, its just HIM. Money is another stressor, but The boxes from Amazon have been coming to the house for several years, but then he blames us for not having money to oay bills.-All the bills get paid late, and he bounces checks almost every month. If I bounce ONE check, he gets really angry. The "Do as I say, not as I do", has been alive and well. I really got tired of getting yelled at for something he does, but he doesnt want ME doing the same, even if accidental.

Anyway, about the sleeping thing. Hes been on different sleep meds, did biofeedback, but he still stays up until 3am. "IfI go to bed earlier, I will fall asleep, but wake up later and be awake the rest of the night" is what he usually says. He wants to go to bed, fall asleep immediately, then wake up to go to work. That's how he thinks its supposed to work. No variation, but there is always variables, which he creates, and sabotages himself. But the rest of us have taken the fallout from this.

Wow, I wonder if he remembers

Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on Fri, 04/15/2016 - 13:44

Wow, I wonder if he remembers what it feels like to be rested.

I don't think he remembers

Submitted by dedelight4 on Fri, 04/15/2016 - 17:53

It's been so many years since my husband has had a good nights sleep, I know he's forgotten what it's like to feel truly rested. He sleeps really late on the weekends (until about 2-3pm, and think he's then caught up on his sleep. But, again, EVERY time this happens he gets angry with me and says, "Why did you let me sleep so long, I have WORK to do." Couldnt win either way. It was.............let me sleep.....but get me up. Cant live like that.

Losing Your MoJo...And Then Finding It Again

Submitted by kellyj on Fri, 04/15/2016 - 14:52

I'm writing this to Zapp, Mihi, Dede Lost, Rosered and NON in response to everything that you just contributed to this thread. I'm working on trying to keep my ideas short ( a personal problem of mine lol ) so I'm thinking of a way to do this and I'll make an attempt to consolidate some common things I'm seeing here to add to what has already been said (and some possible insight too ).

Quick background here for context. I ran into a situation years ago now, where I lost most everything I had at the hands of some unscrupulous people. The details are not so important and I'm not embarrassed to talk about it anymore but to the point...... that I have come my own resolve over this in that these people basically.... do this for their living as unethical and illegal as it is. Their basic motivation was drug addiction and I was just not able to see the signs since it was not something I had ever been exposed to before. I've come to learn....drug addicts (specifically Opiates and Heroin ) are very good at hiding it and very protective of keeping their secret a secret. You can't tell just by looking at them like with other drugs that I was familiar with. They can function and even hold jobs to the point that you cannot tell they are addicted unless you know what to look for ( I certainly do now!!! lol )

To say this another way....they are professionals and very good at doing what they do. It's really easy to take advantage of someone once you have their trust and getting trust is what they do best. The rest is a piece of cake for them once you believe their deception. I can forgive myself at least for not being a complete idiot and just being a bit naive....it happened after I had just gotten divorced so I was ripe for the pick'in as they say. People like this look for people like me to prey on and I just drew the Old Maid in this round of cards. Enough said.

Needless to say....I suddenly (literally over night ) found myself in a place that I thought I would never be in and if it wasn't for this one mishap....I still would be right where I was before. In an odd and even positive way.....this changed my life for the better in many ways. Just one of many things I learned from this experience was about fear and what it can do to you. Without tha fear there to cloud your thinking.....many things become crystal clear and apparent to you where you could not see things before. Once I got past the initial shock and then the depression that followed (different kind of depression than what I mentioned having ADHD ).....the clarity that came from this experience really showed me what you can do when you really have to and it became an opportunity to have a completely different life than I had before without the fear there to dictate what you do. When that happens....the world opens up to you in countless ways and those blocks seem to suddenly disappear. It showed me (by experiencing it ) what my worst night mare was really like once your there and living it for real. When you are presented with a situation that you would imagine before that would be more than you could deal with or manage.....I found that when I dug down deep inside me and started reaching for straws to save my own ass...what I pulled up instead were gobbs of courage, strength and power I thought I never had or did not even exist in me? When you got nothing to lose.....it simplifies your life incredibly and you seem to know exactly what to do and you do it without even thinking about it along with the energy and capacity that you thought did not exist.

To sum up the lesson that this taught me in one sentence.....it showed me what is most important and how meaningless and irrelevant what I thought was most important really isn't. It only takes once to learn this... and from that day moving forward..my life would never be the same again. This becomes an indelible mark to your character that I cannot imagine I could ever lose or forget what I learned from this in all positive ways moving forward ( picturing Ebenezer Scrooge after he woke up and found that he was still alive and had a second chance to redeem himself ).

So taking that into account....I wanted to comment on some things said here looking at it from that perspective......

I love this! What's it gonna be? Kudos's to you for saying that...I'm with you on that Zapp! Like I said...I found stuff in me I never thought I had and all it took was something to force me out of my comfort zone and into stark reality long enough to see it. I will work with you....but not against you. Perfect....that's exactly how I feel about it too!

This is the kind of extremely serious situation in which I advise taking a drastic step: imagine what you would do if your husband were dead.....What would you do? Would you tell your clients that he was dead and you need to do all jobs on your own? Would you go into a different business? Those are just possibilities; I don't know what you would do, but I suggest thinking about it in those terms and then strongly considering taking whatever actions you would if your husband were no longer in existence.

I think this is really good advise to anyone...man or woman. From this perspective....you would do a lot of things differently if you knew this was going to happen ahead of time instead of living with "hoping it won't" and "living in fear that it might." If you are living with intention and being proactive all the time along the way....if things do happen, you are prepared for the worst and not afraid if the worst happens. This is empowering just living and acting from this vantage point. I totally agree! The future is not such a scary place after all and you don't have to be afraid of it. This changes everything when you can do this and live in this moment that way instead.

I was raised by parents that instilled the basic principles that life will put you on the streets if you don't work. Life doesn't give a rats ass who you are and you're only as good as your last day payday. So, when I look at my book of business and the budget I'm given...I'm scared to death until I know I can hit budget. I can't relate to the stories of spouses that aren't afraid of losing their house, electric or anything else that would be gone if you can't provide. I would say they need desperate help in 'focusing' on the basic principles of survival; whether through meds, clinical therapy or whatever. I have a wife and two kids that I do not want on the streets; I embrace that fear because it keeps me sharp.

I use to feel this way too and came from the same upbringing.....until I found myself sleeping on at cold floor of my house that had no furniture, no electricity, no heat and no money in the bank to pay for anything including food (without going into the long story on how this happened) Immediately after I got cleaned out....I was digging coins from inside my truck, cracks in the floor and anywhere I could scrape together enough to buy a hamburger and some fries but not even enough for the Coke to go along with it. The people who did this had a moving van and a group of people who came in and did this while I was at work. One day it's here in the morning....the next day it's all gone. Picture yourself going to work and your house and everything in it is gone because it burnt to the ground with no insurance? (except the house part in my case )

I think it's good to have some healthy fear of things so you don't walk aimlessly into trouble. That goes along with keeping you sharp and using that for motivation like you said. But if that fear is turns into catastrophic thinking and paranoia of the future.....it's dictating what you do and is replacing your thinking and reasoning with fear of what might happen instead of focusing on what is REALLY is happening instead. A huge part of what is REALLY happening IS your wife and kids and the business of living instead of the "business of making a dying" and losing sight of what is most important while you are still here and have the chance to use the time you got left?

I think there is a happy medium in between these two concepts but if you compartmentalize too much and only think of one thing at a time....you are doing one thing at the total exclusion of the other and this is what seems to be a common problem for people with ADHD from all the accounts of those on the other side of this that keep getting repeatedly said on this forum? I include myself here even now at times but my new perspective reminds me to watch for this and not fall into that trap in my thinking. I've caught myself doing doing this many times already so I know how often the propensity for this actually is whether you realize it or not?

Mark Twain is credited in saying (others have been speculated as saying as well )..... I Am an Old Man and Have Known a Great Many Troubles, But Most of Them Never Happened. Catastrophic thinking? I think it is:)

The problem is, that no matter how much "buffer" time he has, zero to a lot, he will ALWAYS get done with 10-20% of the days work. I've even put in entire days of extra time to pad things even more, and every time, he goes so slow it can take him 3-ish weeks to get done with 1 weeks worth of work. I keep doing the schedule, because without it he goes at about 5% speed. I am definitely micro-managing him, and I HATE it. But when we have no money for food or rent, I don't know what else to do.He definitely goes slower when we've had more money.

Like when I was doing my part of the work, I cranked it out and got paid for is all early, we had almost a half years salary. His work ground to a halt until we ran out of money (yes, for 6 months). Then he'll start going a little faster. But at times when we REALLY need money (such as when I had given birth to our sons), the months beforehand (when I can't work) he also grinds to a halt. If rent is due next week and is dependent on his work, he grinds to a halt. In between these times, it's the aforementioned 10-20% speed.

This kind of work doesn't exist to him. (isn't on the visible horizon of possibility at ALL). I'm not carping here. I'm being sincere and even have some appreciation of this reality. He doesnt notice, physically, the way I do and for all of his very impressive intelligence, doesnt seem to trace a predictive line between a current state of affairs , whether financial or physcal, and an outcome.

or he's not going to do it (there are certain tasks that he's taken stock of and will not do...they're boring and menial...and it doesn't move him, to understand that they bore me and are menial to me, as well....he's just gotten to NO about them; I respect those NOs. But who's going to get the work done...and again this is minimal-for-functioning work, not my standards...)

, or yes, there's some recognition of need to be done, and it's sincere on his part, but ADHD attention issues, mess making and/or executive function problems do hamper him.

I think there is a common ADHD theme going on here with being stimulated and finding the motivation to do things are connected. That along with being creatures of habit. I am the same way but what I learned from my disaster was this....

. You can change your habits if you have to but....it IS really, really difficult having ADHD to do so. I think this is the unspoken truth to the real reasons behind all of this.

After that happened to me....I took some time off from any relationships and just lived alone for about 4 years. It wasn't long after that when I met my wife since I had gown tired of living alone and wanted to have that back in my life again. During this time....I had no one to blame but myself for anything!! What I discovered was how difficult it was to form new habits and get rid of the old ones. It pointed directly to my worst and most annoying qualities....even to myself!!! Once you do that....it's hard to blame anyone else for those things but before.... it was really easy to get that all lost in the mix of living with other people and thinking that they are the ones who make this so hard on you. What I discovered was.....NOT SO MUCH! lol

And too this day....(the last two years in particular) I'm still finding how difficult it is to form new habits but....I know with persistence...it will pay off eventually and that's my motivation to keep working on it since I know it will be just a matter of time in the end I will be able to conquer what ever comes in front of me as long as I keep working on it. For what ever it's worth...persistence, creativity and thinking outside the box seem to be my more outstanding qualities. This is where I get my MoJo from. It also makes me a royal pain in the ass at times too! lol It's a double edged sword I guess:)

: ) Thanks, J

Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on Fri, 04/15/2016 - 15:12

: ) Thanks, J

YES keep working at it, YES about the fear.

Me, I'm back from the dead....aka, I've had a very good look at the alternative....

....Liz, looks like you're beginning a journey...if you read this, prayers for you on the road.

Nice Job J

Submitted by Mihi Crede on Sat, 04/16/2016 - 11:04

I agree 100% about the Fear. Not only does it present a cloud over any situation, but it also becomes paralyzing to fight your way out of that fear. To face that fear feels like climbing a mountain with no gear because you either don't know the truth or the truth is so damn painful that the accountability of it brings you to an unknown that you have no idea where that will leave you in your life. Depression becomes a problem when you realize your fear and haven't been able to fight out of it. And the time on the calendar just flows by; one day became a week, a week became a month and the months to a year and then a couple years. Your mind is so powerful that it always wants to protect you; so strange. So almost like a bad dream that you're clawing to wake up from or losing air trying to get to the surface of the water before you drown. You fight your protective brain.

It was during this time where I know I lost the heart of my wife. Getting past that fear (no f'ing small feat - that mountain) and finally to the truth was like getting another life (most of my story on my thread to Melissa). The knowledge of Melissa and everyone on this board became mine. I'm so appreciative and now leery of that mindset that I'm pretty damn sure I can now live on.

And like you point out J; finding that flow and new habits using creativity (a strength of mine as well) that contribute to that flow is really important to the ADHD mind. I constantly pull back to 20,000 feet to see my situation to see if it looks right not only to myself, but also for my family. Getting caught in the weeds leads to bad habits as we (or at least I should say I) usually gravitate to the path of least resistance.

But I'm lucky I still have time, my wife recognizes the effort but I believe like my time with the fear, to get her all the way back I'm going to have weeks turn to months and somewhere down the line of time before she trusts me again.

Have a great Saturday everyone!!

No doubt

Submitted by Zapp10 on Sat, 04/16/2016 - 09:35

You have "slammed the sledge hammer" right on the mark. I am, without one teeny tiny bit of doubt, sure that this is exactly what my H is dealing with. You could not have said it more clearly. I think that is why I have backed off trying to articulate this, calmly and lovingly, to H. While he did and said things that ripped at the heart of our marriage and me as a person, we did not know what was going on. What I KNEW was this was not the true him. Doesn't staying with him speak volumes to him of how much I love him? Well duh, am I surprised that he does not want to face himself? WHO could LOVE someone so despicable as he(him?) As painful as it was for me I get it's worse for him. Interesting that through all this I myself have learned to look at myself. No....it was not fun" to do that.........but it ended up to be ....for me.....freeing. I can't explain it any better than that. I so want us to soar together.....we have done it solo for way to long.

I too have a "jerk" within me that just wants its way. My "jerk" tends to be "blunt". My H says I need to be blunt(not a lot of words).....so when the jerk in me comes out I hear from H "not THAT blunt!" I finally agreed that I would address my issue and understanding of blunt.......as long as he addressed his understanding of ADD. So here we are....I am way less blunt and he refuses to address the destruction of ADD for the very reason you described.

It IS a beautiful day today:)

Thanks Mihi

Submitted by kellyj on Sat, 04/16/2016 - 15:40

Yep.....that depression is a tough one to get a handle on. It sneaks up on you without warning sometimes and there is little you can do about it until it runs it's course. Like you said....time goes by and it seems to have it's own time table and all you can do is ride it out. I don't know about you...but I only really start notice it when I'm coming out of it not going into it? That doesn't do you much good for the rest of the time before that when you are not yourself and acting in ways that are a problem for other people like you said. My irritation threshold gets lower and lower as time goes on along with my inability to manage it. I've found that this is when I lose control of my anger much easier than any other time.

Some things I've found that help with this and getting myself back on track....

Lots of rest and plenty of sleep. This works extremely well and makes everything easier even if I'm depressed.

Exercise always works and it works almost instantly too. I can go from feeling horrible in the morning...and go get a good work out and come home feeling like a new man.

Taking some time off from everything even if it's just one day to hang out and watch movies and eat junk food all day. (popcorn and my favorite worthless snacks ) The junk food does nothing for my overall wellbeing....but it's comfort food and that's what counts.lol

Getting out of town and doing some of my favorite activities like riding my motorcycle, skiing (in the Winter) or doing anything outdoors like riding my bicycle, camping, boating and/or going to the beach. I'm lucky where I live since I'm an hour and half from the nearest ski resort and and an hour and fifteen minutes from the ocean as well as 20 minutes from 2 of the largest rivers in the country. It's kind of an outdoor Mecca around here with lots of forests and wooded areas so I can take my pick only a short drive in almost any direction.(lots of hiking trails etc...) Just getting outdoors and doing any number of these things will pull me out of my depression faster than anything I can think of?

I think the best thing however...is jus being able to recognize my state of mind so I can communicate that to the people I'm around. Just being able to know what is going on with me has done more to keep myself out of depression than any thing I can think of. This is what is so difficult when you are not aware or in denial since you simply cannot do this when you have no idea and not being mindful and self aware. It's the lack of control and feeling like you have no ability to stop it or manage it where this was really a problem for me in the past. Now I notice the subtle changes and know what it is when that happens. This has made all the difference in the world for staying out of depression for me. And even when I notice it....it's not nearly as much of a problem for me as well as anyone I have to be around. It's also why I've said here on this forum repeatedly that I think the denial of these things is far worse than the issues themselves. When you are completely unaware of these things....you're like a leaf floating down stream with no power to do anything but go with where ever the current takes you. Fear ties into this a lot when you feel you have no control of yourself.

Obviously.....being self aware give you lots of tools and things you can do to manage yourself when you can simply recognize what is going on inside you. (the list of things I just said in order to help manage myself)

One more things to add to the list. Success...at anything! When I'm struggling with something for too long without any success......this is where my depression originates to begin with. Breaking this up with things I can do that I know I'm successful at will keep me from going there and that seems to be the big determining factor whether I start going down hill or not.

Speaking of....it's a beautiful sunny day here and I need to go get outside! By the way.....light therapy helps my moods a lot during the long winter months too. Add that one to the list! lol Hope you are enjoying your day too!

thank you J

Submitted by dedelight4 on Sat, 04/16/2016 - 12:02

Thank you so ,very much for your posts. I'm sure at times it has to be difficult In writing these, but Thank you for doing so. I love reading them, and they are invaluable for all of us. I know you've helped many of us here, as well as those who may run across this site in their search for answers. Keep up the excellent work.

Always Welcome Dede

Submitted by kellyj on Sat, 04/16/2016 - 15:50

And it is good go know that what ever I put down in writing here might be helping some one else too. It's always my first motivation despite my being so verbose! lol And actually.....I find contributing more therapeutic than anything else since it forces me to think about these things which helps keep things fresh in my mind. It's really only hard to swallow a lot of this stuff at first but over time....revisiting it again and again only makes things easier to accept in the long run. I think making yourself vulnerable and practicing at that only makes it easier to do with my wife or other people. It has helped me tremendously to do so here so my thanks go out to you, Melissa and everyone else here who have helped me more than you may realize by making it possible to do so:) Thank you.

To J and Mihi

Submitted by Zapp10 on Sun, 04/17/2016 - 11:19

Well, the gloves came off this morning...once again it was me because H is not going to bring it up because it is not exactly a "shiny" topic. It did not go well (no raised voices, attacking etc) and as usual he had to go somewhere so it had to be put on hold.( I have yet to pick the right time for discussion....oh could it be THERE ISN'T ONE!) Anyway, it became just another opportunity for him to address that I am the one mainly responsible for this.

I have copied off segments of J's and Mihi's comments here and I truly hope this is okay that I did. They word things way better than I. H needs to see this info. For me today is it. We are going to DO this together or not. That does not mean my way or his way. We need to educate our selves together and come up with what works for both of us. Interesting that he said "When we first learned about this I thought you would be beside me" I said" I made mistakes in how I handled it until I spent TIME(four letter word for him) learning about it.however I cannot "walk beside you" if you are going to continue to "smack" me out of the blue because YOU have not done your homework" Then I asked "did it ever occur to you that you are not the only one with a short fuse? I see it in myself and I am not living like this. I am fed up with, if I take issue with something you take it so personal and we end up off on a tangent. We have spent years sweeping crap under the rug.......what we have here dear is a "failure to communicate" If you do not want to do this then be honest and SAY IT. BUT one way or another when that f 'ing sun sets tonite we are going to end this situation one way or another....."

In all truth I do not know how this is going to go...wish I could have even a ray of hope for the marriage.......but for me today is the end of life like this and however it turns out ...is the best for both of us. Ya know H gets antsy alot.LOL I don't think it occurs to him that I do to...I am ready to get off this "bumper car/ merry go round" ride and try a new one.

Morning Zapp

Submitted by Mihi Crede on Mon, 04/18/2016 - 06:42

I can remember during my denial time before knowing the problem was ADHD when my wife was coming to me with ways for me to change; I wasn't ready. I felt that I could make the changes myself by trying harder as we all know now is not the way. Something had to be done and my wife was only trying to help, but anything that represented a lack of freedom I wanted no part of. At some point, my wife represented someone dictating the rules to my life and it didn't sit well with me. Only when presented with everything to lose did I see things differently.

I saw this sometime awhile back and again posted on Facebook by a friend and it is very true for the ADHD person:

The key to succeeding in a Relationship is not finding the right person; it's learning to love the Person you found.

SUSTAINING love is not a passive or spontaneous experience. You have to work on it day in and day out. It takes time, effort, and energy. And most importantly, it demands WISDOM. You have to know WHAT TO DO to make it work.

Here's a link to the entire message (I like to substitute God for universe at the end): http://crownmalone.tumblr.com/post/47594867142/are-you-with-the-right-pa...

Knowing What to Do for me was impossible until I Googled ADHD and Marriage. That Wisdom we all know is trying differently instead of harder.

I pray for both of you. You can use anything from me in the hopes that it will help.

Take care and have a great week!

Mihi, excellent post and article

Submitted by dedelight4 on Mon, 04/18/2016 - 12:29

I love reading your posts Mihi, and the article you suggested is great. Your self awareness and sharing your journey here on this site is helping many of us. Thank you.

Wanted to thank all of you again

Submitted by Lost Wife on Sun, 08/05/2018 - 00:48

Hi, sorry to dredge up my old zombie thread, but I re-read through everything once again and wanted to reiterate my thank yous to everyone for your help. It has helped me at my lowest point.

Maybe I will update more thoroughly sometime when I have strength. But in short, I never did leave. Unfortunately despite a good long period of improvements, things then turned into a hellish nightmare. We found rock bottom and blew past that. Rock bottom seemed to have done something though because he seems to actually be getting himself in order in some areas, and in others, he is the same. I'm too exhausted to even type it out, and honestly I feel humiliated and disappointed in myself, to read where I was 2 years ago in this thread, and to find myself in a worse position now. I tried so many damn times to leave and never could. And still can't. I feel like a failure for not being stronger. I feel stupid for still loving him.

Anyway, thanks again to all the amazing posters in my thread, and for helping this Lost Wife feel not so alone once again.

Hope everyone is doing well!

You are not alone

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Wed, 08/08/2018 - 14:34

" I feel humiliated and disappointed in myself, to read where I was 2 years ago in this thread, and to find myself in a worse position now. I tried so many damn times to leave and never could. And still can't. I feel like a failure for not being stronger. I feel stupid for still loving him.."

I hope for you the ability to realize you are very strong, and you are not stupid. Being in a relationship with a person who is ADHD is difficult.

In the midst of searching for answers here on this forum, I have discovered I am strong and I am not stupid. At all. I focused on myself, went to college, graduated from college, passed the 5 required tests for getting my teaching license, and after working for a year as a teacher's aide, I just accepted a job as a pre-K teacher for 16 four and five year olds for the upcoming school year.

I can tell you for sure, that the advice I got of focusing on Liz, was a step in the right direction.

Sincerely,

Liz

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