Anyone else experience this?
I can't tell you how many times my H has told me that various things are "broken" when they're not. Usually, he doesn't have them plugged in, or he isn't using it right, or some little thing is not set up correctly, so the item won't turn on.
Within one day, H declared that three things were broken. With each declaration he would look sternly at me and say, "it IS broken, you don't have to look at it." Each time I would go over, quickly look the situation over, and figure out how to turn the item on. With the DVR, it simply was the case that H had put fingerprints all over the DVD (which I've warned him 100 times about), with another it was his laptop, and he hadn't noticed that the connection at the "box" in the cord had come loose, in another it was with a lamp where the outlet is tied to a light switch.
What strikes me as odd is that when he reaches a "barrier," he gives up and declares it broken. He doesn't think outside the box or try to find solutions. No, he just declared them broken....and will loudly say that they're broken so that there's no need for me to look at it.
This morning we were driving a long distance in a rental car. I asked H why he wasn't listening to the satellite radio (which I know he loves). He claimed that he tried it, but it only has one station. I went to try it myself and he gave me an annoyed comment that I needed to just believe him. I flipped it on, went to Satellite I, and then turned the tuner and all the channels were there. None of this is rocket science. This was just basic stuff. What the hey??? Satellite II and III also had a bunch of channels.
It's bad enough that H does break things frequently, but it's really annoying to have him insist that certain things are broken when they're not.
Anyone else have this going on?
Interesting....
Submitted by c ur self on
My wife and I both are mechanically minded...It's an interest for her, she was her Dad's helper (all girls) growing up. I grew up around it, and earned a living doing it... She don't like my help, she likes the challenge of trying to fix things herself, and she is quiet good at it....
I've met plenty of men who are just not mechanically minded. Most of whom I've been associated with just had no interested or was raised in an environment that didn't expose them to it....
But the things you mention here aren't really to tough. It sounds more like unconcern and just no interest to look deeper than the surface...I'm not sure why he would say what he does to you....Unless it's just embarrassment and typical male pride...But, that don't seem to really fit...because; if it really bothered him that you could identify a problem and make a correction...Why wouldn't he give more effort? Interesting....
C
Hmmm
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<My wife and I both are mechanically minded...It's an interest for her, she was her Dad's helper (all girls) growing up. I grew up around it, and earned a living doing it... She don't like my help, she likes the challenge of trying to fix things herself, and she is quiet good at it....>>>
I do think that people (ADHD or not) who have grown up being exposed to "fixing things," and "finding solutions," would never do what my H does. (This is another example of how the "bad aspects" of ADHD can be mitigated by a childhood that includes some "hands on" training. )
>>>I've met plenty of men who are just not mechanically minded. Most of whom I've been associated with just had no interested or was raised in an environment that didn't expose them to it....>>>
H is not "mechanically minded" and neither is his family. In fact, they were pathetic and would pay to have the most minor fix-its done around the house - even thought they could ill-afford the expenses. They would also frequently buy and replace things when "broken" (likely not broken).
>>>But the things you mention here aren't really to tough. It sounds more like unconcern and just no interest to look deeper than the surface...I'm not sure why he would say what he does to you....Unless it's just embarrassment and typical male pride...But, that don't seem to really fit...because; if it really bothered him that you could identify a problem and make a correction...Why wouldn't he give more effort? Interesting.<<<
I think that there is NO ABILITY to look deeper than the surface. I think THAT is the problem. Since there is NO ABILITY to look deeper than the surface, he thinks that he HAS considered every possible problem and has "determined" that there are no other possible solutions.
And, maybe his ego won't allow him to think, "well, maybe I can't find a solution, but maybe someone else can"?
Anxiety is also part of it.....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
H seems to have two modes...
1) where anxiety kicks in and he won't even try to find a solution
2) over-confidence where he'll say that he can fix a major appliance, and usually he can't. Even when it's a really simple fix, like a simple (take out, plug in new) part of a clothes dryer, usually he can't get the "dryer shell" back on right, or loses screws, so the dryer won't look right after. ugh.
When he gets into the over-confident mode, I try to distract him or just say something like, I need it fixed right away so we need a repair person. (because one time it took him over THREE MONTHS to fix my dryer! That was awful...and each time he'd try, he'd get very mad and start raging at me for "not helping". I wanted to "help" by calling an expert. for those who have replaced dryer belts, you know how crazy it can be to wrap that huge belt around the drum....and some dryers arent easy.....yet a repair person can do it in 8 minutes (I timed one! lol)
Anyone else experience this?
Submitted by kellyj on
Oh yes! I know this one. I lived it everyday
You said.,.. It's bad enough that H does break things frequently, but it's really annoying to have him insist that certain things are broken when they're not.I can't tell you how many times my H has told me that various things are "broken" when they're not.
Clearly
You said.....What strikes me as odd is that when he reaches a "barrier," he gives up and declares it broken. He doesn't think outside the box or try to find solutions. No, he just declared them broken....and will loudly say that they're broken so that there's no need for me to look at it.
Those declarations again. Bizarre, unusual and irrational statements about the world that make no sense and can be as wrong as wrong can possibly be. So strange and frustrating aren't they? Compartmentalized thinking....always in terms in black or white. Either it works....or it doesn't. Good or bad. Right or wrong. Nothing in between. If the switch board operator in his head can only find two holes to plug the wire into..... well??
The false self says "I (the mighty me) tried it and it didn't work....so therefore, since there are only two choices to make here, and in my infinite, unboundless and unbridled wisdom ....... since it did not work as it should when I tried to use it. It must be broken and that is my final word on this matter. The great and powerful OZ has spoken! So it shall be written...so it shall be done. In all things under heaven and earth....Amen"
Unless it's just embarrassment and typical male pride?
The false self says " You presume to criticize the Great Oz?! You ungrateful creatures! You're lucky that I'm only holding this till tomorrow, instead of the next TWENTY YEARS from now!... the Great Oz has spoken. PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!! THE GREAT, er... and powerful er....OZ........has spoken...........er"
I think that there is NO ABILITY to look deeper than the surface. I think THAT is the problem. Since there is NO ABILITY to look deeper than the surface, he thinks that he HAS considered every possible problem and has "determined" that there are no other possible solutions.
And, maybe his ego won't allow him to think, "well, maybe I can't find a solution, but maybe someone else can"?
The false self says " Can I believe my eyes? Why have you come back?
Dorothy: Please sir, we've done what you told us. We brought you the broomstick of the Wicked Witch of the West. We melted her.
Oh?...... you liquidated her, eh? mmm... Very resourceful....
Dorothy: Yes, sir. So we'd like you to keep your promises, if you please, sir.
Not so fast, NOT SO FAST! I'll have to give the matter a little thought. Go away and come back tomorrow. The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken!!!"
H is not "mechanically minded" and neither is his family. In fact, they were pathetic and would pay to have the most minor fix-its done around the house - even thought they could ill-afford the expenses. They would also frequently buy and replace things when "broken" (likely not broken). Here's the reason why. monkey see....monkey do. Also speculating with my own experience in witnessing such things....
This in part is the cataclysmic paradoxical conundrum in dysfunction.....the circular reasoning and denial that creates the point where reality gets diverted and remains stuck there which says...I am from the creator of me (my parents were therefore and must be God like special creatures as I am as well for this to be possible) And then it just carries forward from there. What they did is what I do because they are me and I am them. My parents loved me as I love myself.
The denial is that his parents probably did not love him or at least.....abused him in a way that their love cannot be reconciled as him feeling loved. Possibly both.
My T told me once in his office that the one common thread in people who are severely in denial in this particular way, and have been also been abused by their parents....is to insist and verbalize right away at the time when talking about these horrible atrocities that they experienced is to say in the same breath " my parents loved me." Think about the injury that the ego would have to endure to be able to say the truth which is just the opposite of what they are saying. Think about that in terms of Narcissistic injury, rage and exposure and having to face the truth that would be impossible to face if your false self is built around protecting this realization from coming out of the sub conscious and into his conscious mind? The house of cards would topple and the false self would be destroyed . As said and experience tantamount to annihilation if the disassociated true self were to differentiated from the separate false self and be able to see each other?
Here's one interesting theory along these lines since you are invested in this subject as I have been too for the same reason in a different relationship category ie: husband vs father. Again....I'm going off of what you have said about your H being diagnosed as being in the NPD or PD category. And here we come to the crux of the matter: All PDs - except NPD - suffer from a modicum of DID, or incorporate it. Only the narcissists don't. This is because the narcissistic solution is to emotionally disappear so thoroughly that not one personality/emotion is left. Hence, the tremendous, insatiable need of the narcissist for external approval. He exists ONLY as a reflection. Since he is forbidden from loving his True Self - he chooses to have no self at all. It is not dissociation - it is a vanishing act.
DID (dissociative disorder) is found in victims of abuse and trauma and can coincide with PTSD. I had enough of it to become problematic later in life but it was not a disorder and not a complete split off of myself to this level. It came from my experience growing up with a full blown malignant Narc from his rage attacks and extreme scary behavior. It certainly was enough to keep me in denial to a much lessor degree but saying it took my T to get me to see the remnants of it before I could completely eradicate it from my thinking. I was mostly there however as I have said before coming to the realization that I had a parent who was completely without the ability to love anyone including himself. I was not under the illusion that my Narc father did nothing to show or prove he had the ability to love which was easy for me to see. That part was clearly missing and was never there that I can remember....but yet you are still left believing what everyone believes until you come to this stark and somewhat shocking realization that in this one exception to the rule it seems in most other cases or disorders.....that it isn't lack or, or low in ability.....it's completely missing and is not there at all. This is a concept that is extremely difficult to wrap your head around if you are not without this ability and capacity yourself in order to fathom 0....versus just not being very loving or poor at showing it. Low affect or not very demonstrative. Not so much according to what this is saying. I concur only in that it is so distinctly different that most any other personality variation I can think of in terms that it is almost completely unlikely to ever change at all ever. I'm talking about a malignant Narc as this excerpt is referring to not one of the other variations and sub sets which appear to be in the PD category of things as this suggests. This is who my comments and experience are all based on just to be sure here. I think there are other variations and possibilities than can account for many of these behaviors and not to assume too much and read into the things I am saying from just my one experience.
And because this is such an extreme exception it seems to most all other explanations.....the denial or belief that there must be something in there at the very least? is really the kind that needs this kind of understanding to make sense of to try and figure it out. In my case....it wasn't a huge jump in my own thinking to bridge the gap between this and what I knew already. A small jump over a mud puddle is a lot easier to make than a one the size of the Grand Canyon in denial if you understand what I am saying. Instead of annihilation.....what I experienced was more like getting punched in the stomach so hard you almost pass out and having to sit out for a day or two of normal activity to recover from that initial blow. lol
I do think that people (ADHD or not) who have grown up being exposed to "fixing things," and "finding solutions," would never do what my H does. (This is another example of how the "bad aspects" of ADHD can be mitigated by a childhood that includes some "hands on" training. )
This is not an ADHD issue I think? I'm only basing this on myself here but you are absolutely right. Hands on training in childhood I think is very important especially for a kid with ADHD. For myself only here....I had no training or help from my family in learning how to be mechanical. It is without question.....my strongest suit side by side with my artistic ability and the ability to problem solve and trouble shoot along with an insatiable curiosity to go along with it....and I also have ADHD.
My inherent artistic ability came from both sides of my family ... stand out (professional) painters, singers,actor and musicians my Aunt, my two cousins (on my mothers side ) and my Great Uncle (fathers side)
My mechanical ability came from experience starting as a kid to say....it was at least an aptitude to start with.
Oz in my case of course was my father. I was truly amazed that he could tie his own tie. He had no mechanical or inherent ability it seemed in building anything or fixing things outside of changing the oil in our cars since he was cheap that way. Anything to save a buck! lol
But the real reason behind the reason I became adept so early in life at being mechanical and fixing things....was for this very reason. When Oz said it was broken....I found ways to fix them just to prove him wrong. That was my early motivation in life to learn how to repair and fix things. Passive aggressive? Why yes it is! lol
The lessons I learned from my father ( the great and powerful OZ lol) in the way of mechanics and fixing things were, "how not to do things".... and he taught me these lessons very well indeed. Did I mention he was a malignant Narcissist?
Do I know this one? Yes, I lived it everyday.
J
PS sorry for all the rambling but I am just as invested in figuring out what is ADHD and what is not so I figure that someone else will benefit from anything I have learned as well?
J you've hit on another one of the mysteries of Life.....
Submitted by c ur self on
(My T told me once in his office that the one common thread in people who are severely in denial in this particular way, and have been also been abused by their parents....is to insist and verbalize right away at the time when talking about these horrible atrocities that they experienced is to say in the same breath " my parents loved me." Think about the injury that the ego would have to endure to be able to say the truth which is just the opposite of what they are saying.) Let's change the word Ego...to heart for my example....
Most of the dysfunction in my life and in the world as I see it; stems from this one Mystery..."The desire to be loved"....What if OWW's husband sets her up so that she will engage him? Probably not, but, this stuff happens all the time...The desire for interaction, the desire for community, the desire to be loved....We are created to be relational beings....
When the serpent beguiled Eve, what was really happening? Didn't he cause her to Question God's Love for her? What was in question? Wasn't it God is holding something "Good" back from you? So Eve looked into the one place that destroyed her innocence for her answer...Her carnal mind?.....The rest is history as they say....We all follow suit....No one has to teach us either:)
Every insecurity (destroyed innocence) I have with my wife and over my life span, has grown or been destroyed based on this relational premise....Our perception's of how we are Loved will always link up to our emotional wellness or lack there of.
The problem with being human and having insecurities, baggage and faulty thinking; is we really don't always recognize healthy Love when it is given. And our ability to give healthy love is always in question because of these same reasons....
We can learn a lot about our own needs, when we look at the sweet innocence of a child...If a down syndrome child will live longer in a environment of Love, security and social engagement...Why not the rest of us adults:)
Blessings this fine day friends...
C
Let's change the word Ego...to heart for my example....
Submitted by kellyj on
Yes. I like that very much. I believe very strongly in the power of the heart and the strength that you can summon from it. It take's heart. Ego does sound very clinical and it appeals to logic. Heart appeals to your emotions and your soul.....but you need both to an integrated person. You cannot rely on just one or the other in order to make good decisions that will effect your life in critical ways. To live in a world of just emotion and heart where anything is possible is equally important to living realistically and not be in denial or the truth from a logical practical stand point.
To live and believe from only heart......is to believe in magical thinking and in denial of the truth. A person who is born without legs who is told anything is possible with enough heart and courage.....may set his sights on winning at Wimbleton and truly believe this is possible. This is denial and magical thinking plain and simple and you and I both know that. Small children believe in this way and that is a normal phase of growing up. One day however.....you need to rely on logic and reasoning and become an adult to survive and thrive. People who can't do this end up living in denial their entire lives and become dysfunctional people because they can't integrate into the real world and have all the problems you are seeing on this forum.
A person who's heart has been wounded so severely that it is damaged beyond repair has only logic and reason to use to guide them. In the real world......there are things that are so broken that there is no fixing them. Being able to determine that is part of the experience of trying to do this long enough that it becomes apparent after a while. There is a point of no return and no amount of heart , wishing or magical thinking will ever fix something beyond repair. This is not to say that you shouldn't try and give up hope......but to remain past the point of no return and still believe in your heart that anything is possible the you are still living in a child like mind not using your logical part of your brain at the same time.
I cannot speak for your own experience C and I have no idea what you know about your own childhood. But I know without questioning it for a second.....that the things that I have read, been told, been taught by a professional in this field of expertise.....a line perfectly with my own experience to say that in my own case.....I held onto the same thinking that you are proposing with a stubborn believe that refused to see anything outside of what I believed was possible....until I was forced to see reality and put logic and heart together to see only what was right in front of my eyes the entire time.
This is denial......the exclusion of one thing and not wanting to believing it or being able to look at it.....for the existence of another belief in order to keep that one alive at the expense of your heart and emotions or your logical good sense to keep them separate from the truth or what is real.
A Narc like my father....had no heart and operated on pure logic without emotion. His heart was dead and there was no coming back from the grave. This is what you get from my description above when that happens.
On my end.....I denied what was real and logical to maintain my heart and believed in magic and anything is possible at the exclusion of logic which has it's own problems and was very detrimental in so many ways. It caused me to suffer from excluding logic and reason from my thinking process in the belief that anything is possible and love will cure all including a heart that is damaged beyond repair. It was a false hope and a lie that I maintained until I came to the realization that you cannot live a healthy life without out one or the other and this is absolutely true without question.
Denial is repression and a betrayal of yourself and who you are. To see your partner as someone they are not and believe they are something different because you need them to be that way for you is in it's very essence......denial of the truth and telling yourself a lie. In the real world outside of magical thinking....there are finite lines and not everything is possible no matter how stubbornly you maintain that they are.
One More Thing to Add
Submitted by kellyj on
I think if I read you correctly C......that projecting a positive belief onto your partner for their own benefit in a benevolent giving way as an act of kindness and support is a very good thing to do. I try and do this with my wife as often as I can and it is a gift I can do from that place in my heart without any expectations from it on my end. It is not for my benefit that I can do this but for solely for hers. But I make no illusions or project what I want from it along with that. It is a clean gift with no denial of my own along with it. It's her's to use or not use.....I have no control of what she does with that.
The danger of doing this from denial and magical thinking is that this same gift is tainted and there is an expectation tagged along with it. If my wife is in denial and believes things that are not true.....I can continue to give from the same place but I'm not going to join her own denial and believe the things that she does just to be with her. I'm not in denial of her even if she is that way with me. Two people in denial are codependent and feed off each others disbelief and become he blind leading the blind.
One person in denial and the other one helping them become not that way is an act of support and caring for the one who needs help and support but not at the exclusion of the helping partners own best interest or mental health if that is at all possible. Like I said in another post.....life is not a 0 sum game but to lose yourself and who you are in exchange for helping someone else is the point of cutting your losses and moving on. Killing yourself in service of being a caregiver and supporting your own mis belief that this is the right thing to do is an act of self betrayal if this is what you are doing?
How do you know where to draw the line? When you cannot maintain yourself and the other person both at the same time and not feel like a happy and healthy person as the supporting side of this equation. I think there is no easy solution or point where this will happen but knowing if there is any possibility in the first place or any hope that is possible is surely what you should be finding out and know what is possible in the first place.
Coming back to the point about Narcissism. As I said before.....in this one exception to the rule....your chances are slim to nothing that a person who is pegged as such will ever change or have any hope of being any different. If this is the case....you only have one of two choices and those choices are pretty easy to see if this is the case. Any thoughts outside of this are in my mind......magical thinking. I have tried to say this in other words but to say it again here.....not all people with ADHD are Narcissists but some who have it are. There may be some overlaps in behavior looking at it from the outside but these are distinctly different animals and are not the same based on how they may appear a like at times. One there is hope.....the other I would not count on any chance of change myself. Just one mans opinion for what it is worth.
J
J has anyone told you, you over think things...LOL....
Submitted by c ur self on
The reason I ask to change ego to heart is solely based on the damage to the spirit and heart when something like you stated is going on...If your emotionally crushed from abuse, one of the first things a person needs to receive and feel is healthy love...and also as they can receive it the Logic of reality...There was nothing I could do to stop it...and I was not responsible in no way for it happening....Just because something can be truth based on logic...Doesn't mean it will ever be accepted or healing will ever come But, like you; I'm going to use this truthful logic to try and Love:)
My comment's are based on C Ur Self's life....I wasn't projecting....
C
DID ~ Dissociative Disorder
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
that the one common thread in people who are severely in denial in this particular way, and have been also been abused by their parents....is to insist and verbalize right away at the time when talking about these horrible atrocities that they experienced is to say in the same breath " my parents loved me."
Think about the injury that the ego would have to endure to be able to say the truth which is just the opposite of what they are saying. Think about that in terms of Narcissistic injury, rage and exposure and having to face the truth that would be impossible to face if your false self is built around protecting this realization from coming out of the sub conscious and into his conscious mind?
The house of cards would topple and the false self would be destroyed . As said and experience tantamount to annihilation if the disassociated true self were to differentiated from the separate false self and be able to see each other?
<<<
I completely agree with this, and it explains so much.
I have often used the, "house of cards" analogy in regards to H's family. Their parents were so inadequate in so many ways...father raging, punching holes in walls, abusive to the boys, self-centered, had to have his own way. ....mother was self-absorbed, didn't do the normal "mom stuff," indulged her kids to "keep them happy" (and out of her hair), extremely permissive. However, they did provide a roof over their heads, and food on the table, and every toy they could ask for.....so they truly believe that they had "great parents." Only within the last few years has H recognized how inadequate they were. His siblings still CLING to the belief that they were awesome parents....even tho their own spouses had much superior parents, so the comparisons should have "exposed the empty suits behind the curtain."
***EDIT: I meant to add - There seems to be some barrier that prevents them from doing more than a modest true appraisal of their parents. They will sometimes joke about how their mom didn't discipline anyone and how their dad was a hothead, but nothing else is said. There's no mention like, " I wish they had done things differently," or "my spouse's parents really did a much better job," or anything like that. It's almost as if their whole inner core will collapse if they truly acknowledge how pathetic their parents were.
Healthy people KNOW that their parents weren't perfect and can calmly acknowledge their short-comings without feeling like their worlds will implode. In fact, most people will say things like, "My parent did (fill in the blank) while raising kids, and I can see now that that wasn't the best decision. so I'm going to try to do a better job in that area."
My sister, a clinical therapist, and I have discussed this at length. We marvel at the fact that they never seemed to have stopped and thought, "wow, other moms taught their kids X, Y and Z," or "gee, other dads don't rage and punch holes in the walls." And, even if the thought did briefly cross their minds, they would just conveniently chalk it up to "everyone is different", but that doesn't make a person better or worse.
<<
Someone with a dissociative disorder escapes reality in ways that are involuntary and unhealthy. The person with a dissociative disorder experiences a disconnection and lack of continuity between thoughts, memories, surroundings, actions and identity.
Yes, Exactly!!
Submitted by kellyj on
Someone with a dissociative disorder escapes reality in ways that are involuntary and unhealthy. The person with a dissociative disorder experiences a disconnection and lack of continuity between thoughts, memories, surroundings, actions and identity.
"In psychology, the term dissociation describes a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from immediate surroundings to more severe detachment from physical and emotional experience. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment from reality, rather than a loss of reality as in psychosis."
On the mild end of the spectrum, for a child in situations like me.....it can be a healthy way to adapt to stress and maintain a healthy balance as a defense mechanism. It only becomes unhealthy as a default later on if it is continued past a certain point. For myself under severe circumstances of prolonged stress....this became a mal-adaptive unconscious strategy at those times. Under more normal situations...I appeared to have no effect later on but.....I can look back now and see myself coming in and out during those short periods and the effect it had even though not extreme....it still posed problems for me during those times.
What saved my ass ....was being the identified patient in my family. Even as a child....one gets to the point of being the scape-goat for too long and things start becoming rather clear to what is your's and what isn't after a while! lol Between these two survival mechanisms working off each other along with lots of outside exposure.....(me physically removing myself as much as possible with the opportunity to do so)......this as my T explained to me....was a very healthy thing for me to do. It saved my ass!! lol
That's how that worked in my case. It had enough affect on me to lay more dormant and still not prevent me from going to far in any one direction. I had obsessive neurotic tendencies along with the dissociative ones....but going along with again.....more mild denial, all in all....I didn't get so far from reality and good common sense to have any of this become a real issue. Problematic only in short periods of extreme stress but returning to center and not staying that way.
That's my story but also why I can see it both in myself in my past and other people for that reason. It takes one to know one as they say even if it is on the lower end of the spectrum including not turning into a PD or full disorder but to say.....I can see how this could have been different and gone completely another way instead. I danced the line but didn't go over. lol
The best indicator of this for me is my memory. My memories as much as I have had to deal with them and get some of those out of my everyday thinking have been mostly pretty accurate to incredibly so at times. I've become the family historian in great detail and accuracy in the memory department by default. My rote memory is especially good compared to other people. Why? Who knows??! lol My sisters have used mine to fill in the gaps for themselves at times and call me to see if I remember things once in a while and usually ....I can pull them out without too much problem. It does appear that there is very little distortion involved which is a good thing. whew!
I think part of that....as I said....was from being the scape-goat and quietly sitting in the back row and watching the play instead of being in it going......"oh, brother..(eye roll, eye roll )" for a lot of my time growing up in my family. lol That had it's down sides too but if I had to choose.....I'd take door number one instead of door number two any day of the week:)
J
Fear and Pain to great to face in their minds.....
Submitted by c ur self on
(Someone with a dissociative disorder escapes reality in ways that are involuntary and unhealthy. The person with a dissociative disorder experiences a disconnection and lack of continuity between thoughts, memories, surroundings, actions and identity.)
It's the pain and fear of the reality that drives them into this state of denial that leads to a complete inability to recall.....When my late wife woke me up screaming and crying in the middle of the night in her 40's. As she recalled her rape that had happened at age 14, by her Sister's husband....As I was holding her and she started telling me her memories....the first thing she told she did after the attack was to get up and walk around in the bedroom she was in saying that just didn't happen, that just didn't happen....Her sister was 10 years older and she loved my wife like she was her own..My wife new it would have killed her, she would have never forgiven herself....So in my wife's young mind...Something this tragic must be forgotten....I want go into it all, but, it had negative effects on her all of her life....Anxiety and panic at times.....Sexual Disfunction...Body would respond, but, she wouldn't discuss it, and said she never desired it....
C
Yes!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<< This is not an ADHD issue I think? I'm only basing this on myself here but you are absolutely right.
Hands on training in childhood I think is very important especially for a kid with ADHD. For myself only here....I had no training or help from my family in learning how to be mechanical. It is without question.....my strongest suit side by side with my artistic ability and the ability to problem solve and trouble shoot along with an insatiable curiosity to go along with it....and I also have ADHD.
<<<
I think the ADHD comes into play when there's this "tunnel vision" belief that there are no other solutions. Hit a block wall and that's it. No thoughts to tunnel under it, no thoughts to walk around it, and no thoughts to climb over it. They run into it, stop, and conclude, "that's it."
I have watched them step right into mud puddles that are coming up in their paths. No thoughts of, "hey, can I just alter my course a tiny bit and walk around it?" No, just step right in it.
Now I understand that some of that is from their hyperfocus, they're thinking about what they're thinking about. But, just as we watch the road ahead of us while driving, even with ADHD they should be watching their path just to make sure they don't walk off a cliff! lol
But the inability to think outside the box, even in the slightest, is what frustrates me. I feel like a freaking "know it all," when I'm constantly having to say, "well, what about trying ........" when H gets frustrated with some "road block". (I can't tell you how many times he's thought that his car was broken because he couldn't get it to start....because he had the car in "drive" instead of in "park"!!! And, I'll have to say, "is the car in "park"? Same with getting the key out after he's come home. He'll say, "it's broken". No, you still have the car in "drive", that's why you can't get your key out."
I joke and use the "can't find their way out of a wet paper bag," to describe how easy it is to stop H and his family in their tracks. "Oh no, don't know what to do now," seems to be their mantra.
<<<
Hands on training in childhood I think is very important especially for a kid with ADHD. For myself only here....I had no training or help from my family in learning how to be mechanical. It is without question.....my strongest suit side by side with my artistic ability and the ability to problem solve and trouble shoot along with an insatiable curiosity to go along with it....and I also have ADHD.
<<<
Yes, hands on training, starting at a YOUNG age is so necessary. It exposes the ADHD child that there can be many different solutions....don't just go with the first one that comes to mind. Hands on training also teaches and trains them to "go slow," and "be careful" and "treat it gently so you don't break it."
My husband likes to fix
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
My husband likes to fix things, which I appreciate, except that he bites off more than he can chew and is very defensive about hiring out for tasks or getting help. If it's something clearly out of his experience or skill set, he'll claim that it's not broken or doesn't need to be done. Or he'll come up with an answer that is clearly wrong and won't be budged from that position. If he does actually receive help, he falls over himself explaining away the receipt of the help. A few years ago, we we got stuck in a snowbank while he was backing the car out of a driveway. He's a good driver and knows the things to try to get a car unstuck. while he was trying, unsuccessfully, a man walked by and offered to help push us out, and then did so. After my husband was back in the car, he kept saying that he would have been able to get the car unstuck on his own and he didn't need help. He was clearly extremely uncomfortable.
I was not raised in a DIY family, at least as far as fixing things is concerned. But I'm generally quite independent and so I've become interested in trying new things. I took apart a bed the other day. But I don't like getting on the roof!
Leave the Roof to Someone Else!!
Submitted by kellyj on
It's horrible work anyway! I was and still am like your H. I have a hard time hiring anyone to do anything and I have that same tendency to bite off more than I can chew. If it's not about money anymore however....at this point I don't mind people doing work for me at all even though.....I still think I do a better job most of the time:)
That's one of the compromises I have made to get things done faster which leaves me more time for other things. This was one step in the right direction:)
J
Interesting My T Summed What You Just Said...
Submitted by kellyj on
up for me on my last visit. Anything like this that interferes with the cognitive process no matter if is ADHD or any number of other things you can think of (especially ones that effect memory)....interferes with your ability to learn. That's it right there. Making mistakes is one thing.....not doing them again is not learning. In some ways I can totally see how my ADHD slowed this process down but......it didn't stop the process.....I learned from my mistakes.
J
My H and his dad will repeat errors, over and over again...
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<< Anything like this that interferes with the cognitive process no matter if is ADHD or any number of other things you can think of (especially ones that effect memory)....interferes with your ability to learn. That's it right there. Making mistakes is one thing.....not doing them again is not learning. >>>
So their inability to learn from their repeated mistakes is "something" that is interfering with their cognitive process? hmmm....I thought it was just plain ole stubbornness and a stupid belief that the earlier failures weren't their fault, so it's "okay" to do that same way again, because that "outside force" won't cause the failure.
For instance, Say that they missed their plane flights and the REAL reason is that they waited until the very last minute to leave for the airport, so a minor hiccup (maybe traffic or an accident on the road or bad weather) caused them to be late and miss their flight. So, the next time they're scheduled to fly, they don't change anything. They don't leave earlier. They think that they don't need to be cause the previous lateness was "caused" by an accident. They don't think that anything they did (not allowing any pad time) caused their missed flight.
Excellant Example OW...I Hope Everyone Reads This
Submitted by kellyj on
One of my sisters (suspect ADD undiagnosed ) is worse than I am in being late for things. Using the two of us as a case in point here.....we both do this very thing that you are talking about so I have been on both sides of this particular issue.
When ever my sister says she will be somewhere, everyone has to get her going and keep her from being terribly late or tardy for everything all the time. Her whole family including her kids have to work at getting her out of the house or where ever...... in order to make it to anything without being very late. I do the same thing but usually within 5 to 15 minutes after I am suppose to be somewhere. With her it's more like 45 - 1 hour or even more (sometimes 1 1/2 which would not be unusual) What's interesting is that these two time ranges seem to remain somewhat constant over the years? The reason for this is the same for both of us and it was referenced by Rosered in her comments about her H.....biting off more than you can chew. Trying to schedule too much at once and then squeezing things in and not leaving enough time.
If you step back from your example and apply this to everything all the time not just making it being late for the one thing like missing your plane....you will see this pattern exist on the bigger scale in the bigger picture. It's not just the missing the plane instance or moment (the one that creates the big problem and the one that you notice) it's happening all the time in other ways but you don't see that as much....in fact.....other people don't see 90% of the other things that happen like this to be able to even see what the reasons or causes of this in the first place.
It seems so simple (which it is and you are not wrong at all)....just leave more time and leave earlier? What's the big deal....how hard is that one to figure out and learn!!!!! errrrrrrrrrrrr ( on your's and everyone else's end....the ones waiting or being effected by your H's miscalculation and overlooking the obvious. Why does this keep happening? Why can't we learn? What's the problem? It doesn't take a genius to figure these things out to the point.....most kids after a certain age can do this without a problem? And there really is no excuse for it in fact......it's disrespectful, it thoughtless and it is not considering other people and how this effects them all at the same time when these things happen. I couldn't agree with you more and feel the same way on the receiving end of it with my sister for example and still.....even with her as my own example of how others feel when she does this with me.......I still do it. How hypocritical is that? Hypocritical if you blame or point fingers that is. This is the one thing that my sister and I don't do (be critical or blame other people) when they do this with us. That right there is another issue entirely but I still see the connection and how this all relates
This is so great and I hope C is reading this here and his last comment about over analyzing things (me). Am I aware of that one too.....yes, most definitively. Now here's another aspect to consider to the same problem. Now there are 4 things to consider and think about here in your example and they are all interrelated.
Perfect.
Let's step back here for a moment and take a look at what is actually going on and look at the chain reaction of events and processes happening here all at the same time. And please open your minded for a moment because I am not making a case for a defense or an excuse. Why did I just say that....because I am projecting that this is how you will be reading this on your end.....possibly ready for me to make a case for why it's not our fault and that we can't help it so you all should just cut us some slack and not be so upset or angry when these things keep happening. I'm thinking.....you've heard all of this before and it's just explaining this all away as if that helps of changes anything? Am I wrong? I doubt it since I already know on some level....this is happening too or else we all wouldn't be here. Now add that one to the list of things as well......that is specifically......the tension and irritation from other people coming back from the past and reintroducing itself back into this. I'm projecting that into this all on my own but I know from experience that this is true. I really have no idea what you are thinking and feeling at this moment but if I had to guess.....this is what it would be? Chances are I'm right but I could be totally wrong too. For get that for a moment and step back here a well to another issue to think about and add to this list? This is getting very complicated it seems? Is it really? Or am I just full of shit? lol
Reality check.....what's happening here? Let's go back over our list and start there shall we? We've got the things that you, Rosered and C have mentioned in this thread....let's start there shall we?
-Over Analyzing (fast brain, inability to filter information, hyper focus/Myopia)
-Being late or tardy and missing major events like plane fights in your example (hoarding, filling up space, hyper focus/myopia)
-Biting off more than you can chew (hoarding and filling up space)
The things you, Rosered and C mentioned are the results and the things in parenthesis are the causes. Now lets add the reactions or responses to this on our end of things. I want to add one more to this list and that is self awareness. So on our end as possible responses or reactions to you are.....
-Projection (blaming and/or defensiveness and hypersensitivity)
-Anxiety (projection and/or defensiveness and hypersensitivity)
-Self Awareness ( taking responsibility)
Notice how I put taking responsibility next to self awareness? That's an action and the only one on the list. It doesn't say it solves or fixes the problem or prevent it from happening......but it doesn't have anxiety, blaming, defensiveness and hypersensitivity or projection tagged along with it. These are reactions not actions. Are you beginning to see the patterns? If not.....continue on.....
For myself here.......I have self awareness and my sister and from the sound of it.....your H does not. How do you know that? By reading this very comment that's how? That's all the proof I need here and it's why I don't have to be defensive, hypersensitive, projecting or blaming but.....I still project a little and am a little sensitive to the fact that I am feeling like none of this will make a difference to anyone and you will still not understand the point of me doing this with you and yet.....I have no idea or know what you are thinking or feeling so I am still projecting what I think will help or what I think you or other people are feeling which means there's still a little anxiety and defensiveness in here on my side as well. Moving forward and coming back here....
My sister doesn't blame or project but she is anxious, nervous, flighty and fills up way too much space and time in everything she does and is on a frantic schedule and is operating at warp speed from the second she opens her eyes in the morning. She is preoccupied in her own thoughts and feelings and is oblivious to everything or everyone chronically even though she is very attentive to you and other peoples needs as her main focus but...you get very little of her before she is gone off to the next thing and you never feel very satisfied that you actually had a chance to connect with her most of the time. It's hit and run, hit and run, hit and run everywhere she goes. and appears to be oblivious to this fact in itself including the time and everyone else when she gets on a roll. She is a tour de force of social energy and focus but no one gets very much of it because she is moving so fast all the time and trying to keep up with her schedule since she is always late and is always behind. (this is my other sister the one who is closest in age to me who I have not talked much about here).
She is by all accounts....nearly impervious to rebuttal or complaint aside from this aspect about her. You could never meet a more caring and giving of herself person and has an extremely bright and sunny disposition, never offensive and is positive in most everyway. In my entire lifetime.....I can't remember her ever lashing out or getting really overtly angry and even if she is angry, you barely know it since she hides this so well if she is.....she is so thoughtful and generous that even then she would be thinking about other people feelings and not go overboard or lose her temper just for that reason alone as not to hurt anyone feelings. I'm a little like her in this way too but I still have the other side that comes out where after a point....other peoples feelings fall off the radar when I get really mad and angry. This is a quality that my sister never loses ever so you can hardly find fault with her for anything but.....everyone gets really frustrated and angry with her for being late and the problems and anxiety that this causes everyone including myself (the hypocrite lo) What she lacks is self awareness first and foremost which is the main source for her continuing to be this way but she never blames or projects this onto to other people and is non-violent, non-reactive and is not aggressive. Just the opposite....she is overtly nice,passive, caring, care giving, thoughtful, generous, polite,courteous,kind,positive,bubbly, ray of sun shine, demur yet outgoing, apologetic, Miss Congeniality, and still not overly sensitive......just kind of oblivious..... or the better choice in words here is "preoccupied."
Preoccupied in her own thoughts, what she is doing, and what she is thinking........which leaves very little room for anything else and makes her late all the time because she is so busy trying to squeeze too much into too little space and fills up every second of time. This can leave you, the other person, kind of cold when you are with her because she has trouble connecting to you and has problems with being empathetic and making you not feel like you are invisible since she flights off to the next things before you even have a chance to say hello and goodbye to her. She is the quintessential "social butterfly" in every respect of the word.......and she has missed plane fights or has been late arrive at the airport chronically in her past or just barely made it by the skin of her teeth one of her worst qualities despite having so few in the first place. It makes you feel not very important when she does these things when you are involved with her.
Now are you beginning to see the pattern and the reasons why? Moving on here......
Now take your H OW......I can only speculate but taking what I do know and from what you have said.....take being preoccupied.... and add controlling, defensive, aggressive and blaming to the list it sounds pretty close to what I could imagine he would be like? Plus....as it does seem to appear with someone with your H's diagnosis......self awareness is not only off the table.....as I witnessed myself.....self awareness is an inconvenience which is immediately thrown into the garbage as being a waste of time. Add this on top of the other things which only makes them worse X 10.
Now come back to me and being analytical or over analyzing as C pointed out. I am this way by nature but I have not been the way I am for most of my life. Most of my life I have been more like my sister. Preoccupied and oblivious. The two of us are very similar in temperament even though we are very different in many other ways. The thing that we share in common is the preoccupied part and filling up space and the end result of how other people feel like to be with us and using my own description of my sister and applying it to me now. Preoccupied is not just hyper focus. Hyper focus is more in the moment.
Preoccupied is the bigger net result on a larger scale.
It's filling up space, it's hoarding and being greedy with time and it's driven by anxiety and it makes you unavailable emotionally because there is nothing left for anyone or anything else.
but.......I am now very, very aware of it. Why? Because I have to analyze and watch every move that I make all the time every hour and sometimes ever minute of the day. There is no such thing as relaxing or not thinking about this or else I will stop being self aware. This is the trade off for turning this around and being different. With it....comes it's own down sides including the very thing that C pointed out. Add that one to the list of things I have to hold right in front of my face all the time every where I go. Picture a heads up display like in a fighter jet where all the control functions are visible on the wind shield to keep checking and referring to constantly and having to focus on that....shooting missiles, aiming at the target and flying the plane all at the same time. If you fail to pay attention to any one thing....you will either crash the plane or miss the target or both.
Becoming self aware and putting this into practice requires you to keep reassessing and analyzing non stop all the time. Why? Because having ADHD...the thing you have no control over in this respect....means your brain is being flooded and filled up with too much information and it's coming at you all the time non stop 24/7 from the time you first open your eyes in the morning until you go to bed at night. All the space in your cognitive processing is being filled up and used to the max and there is little to no space left in there for much of anything else. This is the source for anxiety when you reach overload and become overwhelmed. One way to stop this or slow it down is to go into hyper focus which reduces this effect along with the accompanying anxiety to only one or two things at a time instead of 100. It is by default and with no awareness of this fact.....the way to slow this down and control it but it by itself is like burning the candle at both ends because of the amount of energy it burns when you are in it. To say it's a no win situation is an understatement. This is the very essence of what is actually happening inside our heads whether the person realizes this or not. The only reason I can tell you this is because I now see this happening in real time in the moment which means....my only choice is to be constantly analyzing and watching myself every second or every minute or every day or else I won't be able to control it. Instead of being obliviously preoccupied like I was before.....now I am totally aware of how preoccupied my brain is and now I have to monitor, analyze, re-access, and readjust non stop in order to control it.
My flying a jet fighter is a really good analogy and a very real one to use here. Picture yourself flying a jet fighter at the speed of sound (800 to 1000mph depending on your altitude ) and you are approaching a hostile target with an enemy plane approaching you from a perpendicular angle of attack as well as a ground to air missile locking in on you as you approach. Think about all the things that are happening at the same time in this senario.....
-You have a plane coming from one side who is going to kill if you do not deal with him and he is approaching rapidly. This one source of anxiety right there.
- You have a missile on the ground which is aiming at you and will kill you if you do not deal with or pay attention to it too. Add more anxiety to this already anxious situation
-You have a target that you are focusing on and are trying to enter coordinates into a computer weapons system and watching the heads up screen and getting ready to fire at the exact right moment which your are rapidly approaching within a matter of seconds.
-You are also controlling a 30 million dollar air plane that doesn't belong to you and your career hinges on not making a stupid error in judgment and just flying the damn thing properly and not crashing into the mountains that you are also on a direct intersect course with in order to hit your target. More anxiety on top of it.
Would you say you might be preoccupied right at this moment?
Would you say the only way you could survive this scenario is to have been fully trained with hours of practice ahead of time?
Would you say that when you are there in the moment....you would have to be very focused on analyzing, recessing and making constant adjustments and readjustments in order to accomplish this scenario?
Would you say that you would have to have really good SA ( situational awareness in 3 dimensions) ...above you, below you, behind you, to both sides of you and in front of you and be paying attention to each threat in each one of those spaces at the same time that are coming at you and trying to kill you?
Would you say this might be called multi-tasking to an extreme under fire with your life on the line if you make even one mistake in any one of these areas?
In order to be a normal person and be just like everyone else and not do the things that you hate about us and all the complaints that go along with it. This is what you have to do every day, every minute 24/7 in you were to try and make that your goal. What I just proposed in my fight jet analogy is exactly what I am doing and what I have to do to improve in any or all of the areas or symptoms with my ADHD. This is what is happening inside our brains 24/7 and it appears from everything I have come to understand.....this is not exactly the same thing that most people have to deal with or have happening with them in the same way.
This is what ADHD really is inside our brains and this is what we have to do to control it.....exactly. It's not kind of like.....it is exactly like in every detail I just described and you get no rest from it ever. Every minute of every day for ever and ever until you die you are flying a fight plane in an ever changing scenario at 1000mph with multiple bogies coming at you and at the same time....you are trying to control the plane and simply not crash into a mountain.
I would say there is a tendency on our ends to be a little preoccupied from the effect of this but if you the person who has is not even aware of any of this....you are pretty SOL in trying to control it in the first place and it will just manifest int self all over the place in the ways that everyone else is seeing it from the outside. All you can do in that case is blame it on other people and get mad and angry all the time.
That's stage one....the primitive rudimentary child like level of denial and blame
Stage two is that you are aware that it exists but you say "Fuck it"....this is just too much damn work and I'm inherently lazy so ....."Fuck it" I don't give a shit any more. that stage two.
Stage three is that you are aware it exists but you have no idea how to control it so you try and fail.....now you just feel like shit and like a big loser all the time. That stage three
Stage four is when you start becoming self aware and begin to pay attention to these things and realize....."holy cow, I'm in some deep shit here!!!" lol That's stage four.
Stage five is you start to one by one....gain control of your fighter jet but you are still learning. This stage never really ends but you are in the training phase and in flight school boot camp. Hopefully....you are getting some help with this at this time. This is the first stage where you stop blaming, making up excuses and start to take responsibility for your failures since you actually realize what you are doing and how difficult this is but there is hope now for improvement where there was no hope before.
Stage six....is where you graduate flight training and now you are sent back out there to live life and fly your fighter jet. This is the mission you are on and it never ends but you have accepted it with a good deal of ability now to be able to actually carry it out without too many mistakes but in order to do this....you have to be "ON" 24/7 all the time with no rest and without exception.
In the real world....you can't be "ON" all the time and sometimes you need a break. When you take a break....all bets are off. You have no control of your ADHD anymore and you will go back to doing everything that you did before except be defensive about. At this point...you accept responsibility for failing and you can also accept that no one else is going to understand what it is like and what you have to do in order not to fail.
So when people point out these things at times when I miss something or am not "ON" top of it....I know why that is and there is no point in saying anything. I can't be "ON" all the time but I know I'm a pretty good fighter pilot at this point. If I'm on a break and trying to relax and get hit with something that I missed or by circumstance......I scramble and jump back into the plane and proceed accordingly...no big deal....sorry for the slip....and keep moving forward.\
So when you bring up the "now" not "now" thing I go yeah.....I know what that is....I know the reason behind it....and I know how to prevent it but.....I also know that I can't be "ON" all the time because I would have to kill myself to be able to do that but.....the more practice I get at flying my jet....the better I become and can do it longer without a break and not make as many mistakes. It becomes a dynamic process at this point and there is only getting better and no getting worse. Mistakes are not going backwards....their just moments when I slip. That's all they are.
But it you are with someone who is not at one stage in the game.....it is not dynamic and it is stagnant and will never be any different. They are still in one of these other stages and haven't even got off the ground yet in my jet fighter metaphor. That is exactly what you are seeing and the reasons why.
Coming full circle here to missing your fight because you were so late and learning from your mistakes. If you are so unaware of yourself and all the things that I just said and only focus on just this one thing....leaving early and not being late. That'll work....kind of....but you will continue to fail and keep failing to do it. That in it and by it self is not the problem. The problem and solution is the fact that our brains are flooded with information and we are preoccupied and inundated with thought. If you don't go right to the source and learn that the mistake is not learning how to control the aircraft in the first place. Trying to approach these symptoms and just focusing on them by themselves is a fool hardy approach in my mind. You have to take an all encompassing approach and work on all the symptoms at once at the same time and learn to juggle 9 at a time instead of trying to do it by learning to juggle just one at a time and trying to get better that way. It won't work.
And listening to you or anyone else give advise or point out the one symptom of the day (the symptom de jour) that is affecting you the most at any given time is the very last thing a person with ADHD wants to do. Chasing after each thing based on what other people tell you that you should do is a recipe for failure and disaster without question. If a person is that completely unaware then this might be a reasonable thing since they can see any of these things and have no idea where to start.
In my case however......I feel like I know what I am doing and need to focus on what I know is the right thing to do and not get hijacked by my wife or other people who think they have a better solution or idea based soley on performance or mistakes. I see that they are not seeing the bigger picture but I also see the reasons why. I have come to expect it and don't get defensive if that's the case.
So how do I stop being late for things like airline flights like you are saying? Good question....I'm glad I asked. lol
I have to make a plan for my entire day and build room into everything I do not just the one appointment or time like being on time for an airline flight. The failure isn't from doing it on this level or just that one moment in time....the failure is not creating enough room across the board in every single thing you do all the time every day every where you go. That's the solution to the problem that will fix it once and for all. That's a lot different and more complicated to do (back to learning to fly a fighter jet and do it well like in my scenario.
Until you can get into a flight simulator and make it through that exact scenario that I just gave with multiple bogies, a mountain range to avoid and not crash into, a target on the ground to hit precisely with your own missile, a shift in direction to avoid the missile on the ground and then an evasive maneuver and coming back in offense mode to destroy and enemy aircraft after you release your missile and avoid his that he fired at you.......you will continue to fail and other people will continue to be unhappy with you.
That's the one and only solution is to a fast brain that is being flooded with too much information and the resulting anxiety and loss of control and energy that happens because you have ADHD. And even after you learn to make it through this flight scenario successfully and not get killed....now you have to do this again every day, every hour of every minute in order to not screw up which is not realistic or even possible to do on our end. Everyone needs a break and rest in order to pace yourself and stay on top of it. No one can be "ON" 24/7 all the time and you are still going to miss one or two and that is only reasonable.
that's my story and I'm stick'in too it. That's not to say that this is who you are with and what you are seeing but it is what is possible.
Personality/character/depression/bi-poloar/OCD/anxiety related disorders are a completely different and another story on top of this. Those will keep you in stage one forever if you can't get that taken care of first. That's how I am seeing many of the reason why so many come here to this forum and why no one is getting any where fast. IMHO. These are separate issue and require a different solution and strategy than just ADHD and what I am talking about here.
J
My MIL is somewhat like this
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
When ever my sister says she will be somewhere, everyone has to get her going and keep her from being terribly late or tardy for everything all the time. Her whole family including her kids have to work at getting her out of the house or where ever...... in order to make it to anything without being very late. I do the same thing but usually within 5 to 15 minutes after I am suppose to be somewhere. With her it's more like 45 - 1 hour or even more (sometimes 1 1/2 which would not be unusual) What's interesting is that these two time ranges seem to remain somewhat constant over the years? The reason for this is the same for both of us and it was referenced by Rosered in her comments about her H.....biting off more than you can chew. Trying to schedule too much at once and then squeezing things in and not leaving enough time.
<<<
I don't think my mother in law bites off more than she can chew, but she and her husband will only figure the minimum time to get someplace, and not include any pad for "what ifs". So, if she figures that it's a one hour drive to a family wedding, and the wedding is at 2 pm, she and her husband will leave at 1 pm. So, when she gets to the car and then remembers that she has to go back into the house to get her coat, she's lost a few minutes. Then they get into the car and realize that they don't have enough gas for a 1 hr drive, so they have to stop for gas, so now they lose another 10-15 minutes. Then there is some road construction and maybe a detour, and now they've lost another 10 minutes. When they finally arrive, the wedding is over...they've missed the whole thing!
what I've noticed is that they don't want to "pad their time," because what they REALLY hate is getting somewhere early and then waiting. My H doesn't like getting to places late, but he also doesn't like getting there early and waiting. They feel cheated somehow if they have to wait.
Repeating the same errors....
Submitted by c ur self on
How can someone live along side a person who is responsible to daily tasks, goes places calmly and on time...and still live in chaos??? You say its not learning? Maybe. I think if it's anything involuntary, it's the inability to produce that they see and know...LOL...Anyway this is one of the main things, that drove me to acceptance....It was either continue to live in the illusion I could some how change it which produced frustration....LOL....or smile and accept it...
As much as many of our spouses hates the mundane, and loves adventure and thrill seeking...(Mine anyway) Maybe they don't like a peaceful existence, maybe they can learn, but, make a choice to intentionally keep their lives running in a chaotic way...(watching my wife live, it sure looks like a choice to me) Maybe it's how they feed their hunger for excitement each day...They make the mundane thrilling, regardless the cost:)
Just a thought...
C
This One OW
Submitted by kellyj on
Red Flag for what????
But the inability to think outside the box, even in the slightest, is what frustrates me. I feel like a freaking "know it all," when I'm constantly having to say, "well, what about trying ........" when H gets frustrated with some "road block". (I can't tell you how many times he's thought that his car was broken because he couldn't get it to start....because he had the car in "drive" instead of in "park"!!! And, I'll have to say, "is the car in "park"? Same with getting the key out after he's come home. He'll say, "it's broken". No, you still have the car in "drive", that's why you can't get your key out."
I'm going back here with a smile on my face. Again.....I don't understand this? Is this ADHD or not???? I hear so many comments about how (we) think out side the box and I go.....yes, absolutely!! Emphatically!!
As I read what you wrote I went....wait a minute.....this was me and my father. He would do this and I would be the one saying.. "uh....you might want to turn that thing the other way." These were the times I would actually get smacked......with the back of his hand! But if he didn't do that which was most of the time....he would always say, and I quote.."Mr Know It All huh?" That was always his mantra with me. I was Mr Know It All any time I would point out that he might be doing things the hard way or wrong.
He always reminded me of Moe from the Three Stooges " wise guy eh?? doink (eye gouge) errrrr...why, you!!!!!" At least that's what I was thinking at the time which is why I am smiling as I write this:) When it came to building things like this....he needed no help from the other two I think. lol
I remember probably the last project my father ever did with me together. I was a teenager by that time and had already proven to him that I could do things he couldn't do. I think this was his chance to get even and show me his stuff. And in every case of these father and son projects....it was father doing it and son watching and keeping my mouth shut. lol Anyway.....he was cutting a hole for a drain into a piece of plywood. I watched him measure the hole but he measured the entire drain diameter so the whole thing would fall right through instead of hang on the lip like it was intended with only the middle portion hanging through and the lip resting on the inside surface.....you know.....like all drains do? I wasn't about to point it out to him (are you kidding me?) but I felt compelled to say something. I think I said "are you sure this is going to work?"....likely.....that is how I had to approach him without getting called Mr Know it All. Always in question form but never questioning him. Everything had to be posed indirectly so as not to insinuate any wrong doing on his part. ( yes egg shells always ) So he looks at it and re-measures the hole and the drain again and it was exactly the right hole size....again, for the entire drain! Which without saying anything proceeds to cut the hole with me sitting and just waiting for the punch line. I did take passive aggressive pleasure out of these moments since I did nothing to either encourage or dissuade outside of my one comment which I needed to do or else get blamed for not saying anything. My ass was covered in this particular case so I just sat and watched.
So he cuts the hole and takes the drain and set it in and it falls right through. Gee....what a surprise!! lol But still yet not wanting to accept defeat....or admit that he screwed up.....he fidgets with it and tries to get it to stay in place and finally gets it not to fall in but just barely hang there by the mosquito's eye lash and says " there...we need to stop tonight since I need some epoxy filler to hold it in place." LOL!!!!!! Which he bought the nest day and smothered the thing will filler instead of just getting a new piece of plywood and cutting a new hole. After it was installed for it's intended purpose....it began leaking after only a few weeks.
Nothing was ever said and was talked about this again but my mom came to me and asked me what we thought we should do to fix it?
"Can we buy more filler like your father said and will that work? (suspecting the worst) What did I think??
I said "how about ripping the whole thing out and just cutting another hole into a new piece of wood the way it was supposed to be and reinstall it and call it good?" My mom said "What?? Your father said it just needed more epoxy?"
Me "No Mom...hole too big....drain too small." pointing at the drain.
My mom, shaking her head " just go get the wood and do it and I'll give you the money for it and we won't tell your father anything."
"Sounds good to me" I acknowledged as she walked away still shaking her head:) I fixed it with a great deal of extra effort in tearing out the freshly glued in fixture and did what I said. No problem. It's probably still in use for the new owners of the house to this day. Nothing was ever said and my father never tried to teach me any projects like this again.
I have no answer other than all the things I have already said about this. Do lot's of men with ADHD do this?? I have no idea if this is related or not....only what I have said already:) lol
"wise guy eh?" (woop woop woop ) lol
J
Your story sounds like my father in law
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
My father in law rarely attempted anything "handy," but when he did make decisions, they were often stupid. Like he insisted on fencing his yard to keep the rabbits out of his garden, but he had the fence company put the bottom of the gates WAY TOO HIGH...so high that a herd of rabbits could come marching thru. lol When I mentioned that the gates were too high, he looked at me like I was the Wicked Witch of the West. My H later commented that if they had said anything like that as kids, they would have been smacked in the face.
>>
I think I said "are you sure this is going to work?"....likely.....that is how I had to approach him without getting called Mr Know it All. Always in question form but never questioning him. Everything had to be posed indirectly so as not to insinuate any wrong doing on his part. ( yes egg shells always )
>>>
I often have to do this, too, when I can tell that H is already annoyed and would "blow up" if I pointed out a potential error. If the potential error will be a costly one, then I do go ahead and point out the flaw. If the error will be an "inexpensive lesson," then I let him take the fail, but not after I also say something like you do, "are you sure that's right?". This may sound mean, but the goal is to help become more self-aware.
One thing that is often lacking with H is that he rarely gave himself any "wiggle room." Instead of saying, "I hope this will work," or "if this doesn't work, I'll try something else," H will say, "I know this is right," "I know this will work, 100%!!!".
Skwooey Wabbits! lol
Submitted by kellyj on
It's not mean to let him take the fall. That's exactly what you should do if it's not going to cause a problem. This is how you learn....experience is the best teacher.
J
Do I do anything similar to this?
Submitted by Bou (not verified) on
I'm the one of the two of us without ADHD. I've read the exploration of mental issues in this thread. There's much to think about in it. I'd like to talk about the role of memory in doing physical tasks. To the OP, yes, similar things happen in our house. And often in the house I'm the one to do the plug in, turn on or whatever the manual task is, or deal with resolving something that went awry some other way.
But when my partner is doing something familiar to himself, whose physical routine he has mastered, he doesnt give up on the task and he gets it done. It seems to be the unfamiliar physical task, one for which his short term memory of procedure fails him, where he gets stumped. We do have short term memory issues. i'm starting to get a few, he has more, and some seem particularly related to ADHD.
i try to remember that he has had a lifetime of frustrations that I have never had to go through over trying things outside of his current competency and that short term memory loss has been along for the ride, so where I can remember where I put something, or remember how to get the new kind of bleeping dispenser working, I dont have to go through groundhog day over and over so many times before I have it in body, not recall, memory to plug it this way, not that way. My learning curve doesnt have so many executive function impediments as his does. Accomplishing tasks takes more than self view, will, and not being hassled or stressed.
my analogy to what my partner goes through in connecting memory of new context, memory of new procedure, focus, and manual dexterity that keeps it vivid in my mind that it's very daunting to not have a memory needed to handle this gadget or remember to do that is that earlier in life I bought a house with nearly zero ability to manually fix anything. I barely could hit a nail straight with a hammer. My entire tool chest consisted of a screwdriver. I had no money to hire out or house companion to do all the plug ins, unwrappings, fuse resets, sandings and paintings, diagnostics, switch ons and switch offs. oh, I could cook and clean, arrange the furniture, keep the house stocked..I had been doing those since I was a kid, but what about all that other stuff that is physical repair and maintenance?
I can guarantee you that i, too, gave up, many many times at repairs and maintenance that "men are supposed to know how to do," because i was bewildered, and didnt know enough to know even what I was supposed to be looking at, to remember it to concentrate on thinking about what I might do differently. Haha i didnt even know how to explain to the Home Depot clerks that I needed them to tell me exactly what I needed to fix something. What for pity's sake is an awl? you should have had a video recording of me scared witless of the power washer I bought. Congratulate me for not blowing out the window with it.
Right now, the new outlets put in when we had some safety rewiring done are stumping my partner, and I am having to show him over and over that you have to wiggle the plug into the new socket since its new. it's not in his memory bank and his body memory is kicking in very slowly on it. More reps than I would need, to learn, but he's got different short term memory and attention focus than I do. I do remember, though how often I got frustrated and gave up, learning how to deal with new tools, new problems and technology in my house. Nobody could see how often I gave up. I gave up a lot. My record for giving up over and over is that it took me a year and a half of giving up before I learned one home maintenance task. I suppose it was generally good for me that there was no one to bail me out until I figured it out.
but remember I hadnt had a lifetime of ADHD executive function complications, short term memory loss of necessary context and procedure, and manual clumsiness
To the OP, there may be a humiliation piece in it for him. It may be difficult for him to fail, after a slew of previous manual failures. He may be trying to save his pride, or a little of it, by declaring the thing broken
I do understand that life needs to go on, and things need to get switched on, and that what he bails on usually turns into something extra for you to do. I do appreciate that you're tuckered out being always the one to make things work if your partner doesnt tackle what he doesnt know. If I hadnt whimpered and given up so many times, hidden from the view of my friends, in my houseful of things I didnt know how to do, I'd probably not be writing this post. I am not always patient in our situation at home and yes I'm very often like you, the one to figure out what went wrong
lol...I often have to take pics with me to Home Depot....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I don't know what a lot of parts are called, either. Or tools, for that matter. I just rely on my phone or iPad, take pics, and then show them to a "handy person" at Home Depot....and let them show me what I need. lol
Yes, you're right that much has to do with H's bruised ego. He also doesn't want to admit that he doesn't know all the stuff that "men are supposed to know how to do."
The funny thing is....Before my dad died, he used to come over and fix whatever was wrong. I would tell H, "dad isn't going to be around forever, why don't you go watch him?" And H would just watch TV while dad would fix stuff. My dad was a very patient and thorough teacher. He taught my brother and all the boys in the neighborhood. Dad was an electrician, but very handy with all sorts of things. But, H would just be lazy and watch TV....he didn't even (at a minimum) sit with my dad and hand him tools, or just keep him company.
Good idea about the pictures
Submitted by Bou (not verified) on
Your dad was kind to fix things for you. It does sound like your husband was avoiding more than task learning from your dad. I find being under either time or monetary pressure (its usually both at the same time) as I struggle to learn some new manual chore intensely frustrating, especially if my failure means that I'm chained to spending more time on the darn task, or on my incomprehension, but that is perhaps just non Adhd me. It's rather a false conclusion to think that because people with ADHD have minds flooded with thoughts and lives that have had many frustrations and disappointments in them, that people without ADHD dont have to struggle with those things, or other serious impediments. "I have a problem, therefore you cant have that problem or other biological challenges" is bogus logic. As is, come to think of it, the other flavor of that thinking: "I don't have a problem with this therefore you can't have the problem either." I've got a learning curve getting over my own whimpering and coasting. I dont buy whimpering and coasting, at my expense, over the long haul. It's sometimes hard to sort out coasting from true impediment. (Haha, now when I'm daunted it feels like a true impediment, like the world is made up of big boulders : D ) I'm aware that in the physical realm I'm backstopping my partner quantitatively a lot more than he's backstopping me.
And yet I believe that there are areas of life for which the particular cluster of acuity, memory, focus, executive function, and execution problems that many people with Adhd report is its own real, daily challenge. Your hub sounds like he's something, maybe demoralized, by the tasks. And perhaps habituated by your dad and you to expect that someone else will fix it.
OW, I'm really daunted by the extra work and caretaking of this kind of relation. i didnt sign up for it, didnt know it, the extra labor, the caretaking,came with the package, so regarding being the adult of the two of us adults to be fixing what broke or didnt break, I'm still getting my mind wrapped around that this extra care and workload on me is permanent and I cant expect my partner to be anything other than who he is, with the biological package that he has. He will never be me, and he'll never be other people (mine will never be like your Dad with his lifetime of practice doing things with his hands).
I'm very, grateful, in light of some of the stories in this thread, that mine is willing to do what he can do, and of late has taken on a big task area, in something he knows how to do like the back of his hand and certainly does very well. I dont know what I'd do living with someone who refused to do what he CAN do, and thereby dumped that work on me. i really dont, and sympathize with your situation. I wish the two of you well.
Back to handywoman stuff: i do myself "recipe cards" sometimes, for strange new physical tasks. youtube can be a godsend, although there are some pretty wacky video how tos mixed in on Youtube. M, like about 3/4 of them on cleaning yard furniture.
You Reap What You Sow Bou :)
Submitted by kellyj on
If you want compassion you have to give it too. It works both ways. If you only have a hammer in the tool box and try and apply that to screw a screw into something....it doesn't work very well. You need a screw driver instead and if you don't have one then this presents a problem! lol
As I read what you wrote (again)....I hear compassion in every word. I will wager that without knowing anything more.....you probably receive the same thing back from you H as best he can offer it too you every time you keep practicing it yourself. The other side of humiliation as you mentioned is humility or lack of it on the other side of the coin. I think if you are humble yourself you stand a better chance of not being humiliated ( for those of us with ADHD )....and it works both ways.
What I think that you have so keenly observed is that ADHD does mess with your short term memory and this is one of those things that is very difficult to improve on at times because of the hard wiring EF problems associated with it. I think the big problem on our end is simply being able to admit this and be humble about it. And if we don't do that.....we stand a fair chance of looking stupid and being humiliated....on our end.
But at the same time.....if other people are not being compassionate either and keep pointing this out to us WHILE we are in the process of learning things and trying to commit them to permanent memory which takes longer and more attempt to get it down than other people.....then this is more an issue for other people if they cannot accept this and make it out to be something to labeled as "bad" or "stupid". It is what it is and some things are really just the way they appear and there is nothing wrong or stupid about it. It's just what we have to deal with and it can looked at one of two ways.
To have compassion is being forgiving of certain things and not others but one of them in my mind is how long it takes to learn things and to try and commit them to memory. It takes lots of tries and failures to get some of these things down. I think for us ADHD'ers......more than on average and this is just one of those things. That does assume that you are trying in the first place and not giving up but I do know it's a lot easier to do when someone is not constantly pointing out when you fail as much as they are pointing out the times that you don't.
I see this between my wife and I and have become pretty aware of it. I've discovered that compassion and empathy go hand in hand. The less my wife has compassion for my challenges......the less empathetic I become to her and along with it.....my compassion to her in having to deal with my challenges. The problem for the boy who cried wolf is that the only way to prove that there really are times when the wolf is in the room with you and it's not an excuse.....you don't have a leg to stand on if you haven't been forth right and honest about the things you really are poor at doing and simply say so and tell the other person you are in the process of learning and you need to be cut some slack during the learning curve. I think most people are pretty forgiving if you own up to it and ask for just that much.
But if you have spent you life trying to prove that you don't have ADHD and are only trying to disprove that you are different or have challenges then......that's a different story. You are only setting yourself up to be humiliated if this has already been pointed out to you and you are still trying to prove to the world that you good at the same things that everyone else you can do better than you.
That's not to say that even if you do this that people are still not going to like it however. I run into this with my wife all the time still do this day. That's where the compassion and empathy really starts to become harder if one person has to muster up more it when the other person is not doing it the same for you.....
But that's the point where you have to do it anyway or you are betraying yourself and who you want to be (unless you just don't care.....another possibility here?)
The only way you can know this either way is not to follow suit and do the same thing that your spouse is doing even if it's wrong.
Remembering way back here to one of my own mother's favorites " just because Johnny jumps off a cliff.........." in my case, she was being a bit more literal because she really had too. lol :)
J
Thanks for the remarks, J.
Submitted by Bou (not verified) on
Thanks for the remarks, J. My success rate with compassion varies, day by day. I do think that what you write, that the partner needs to be seen for who he or she is and interacted with for who he or she is...this is a theme of c yourself, too, is true, very true. Very true.
I haven't been on this board more than a day or two, so forgive me for not having some basics learned, due to dipping around in threads. If I have it correct, you have ADHD?
Just a remark on that from the non-ADHD side: being seen for who I am, and interacted with for who I am, too, is what I am very, very hungry for, on my side of the relation: to be seen by my ADHD partner for who I am (not for who he fears, is conditioned to think, or conceives in his mind that I am), to be accepted for who I am and what I can do, and not be either ignored or called out, if I am being me, trying as best I can at the relation, over on my side.
It is lonely not to be very well observed, my sentences at times not heard clearly, to be interrupted and cut off, or to be walked out on, because his mind in the middle of a conversation went on to something else and so in his mind, contact with me was over.
I do hope that I have it in me to go the duration keeping open to who he is, while simultaneously not being seen or heard very well, or lent a hand in my times of need, because of some real acuity and memory problems in our mix.
It has helped enormously so far to love, and to be confident that he loves me. I'm speaking of more than soft feelings.
A final tthing in your post, that business of labeling behavior, or, worse, a whole unseen attitude, as "bad," "lazy," "stupid." Or add these labels, that I've heard both ADHD and non ADHD people say or write in the last couple months: "dumb" "unhelpful," "enemy," "selfcentered" (I've heard that one from both sides). I think labels like this are a pox on humanity, and I think it's getting worse and worse, across cultural groups.
There's an old saying that is attributed to Native Americans, whether it's a traditional saying of any of those peoples or not, that when you point a finger at someone criticizing them, you're simultaneously pointing the other 3 fingers at yourself.
Bou You've Made Some Really Insightful Comments...
Submitted by kellyj on
and I like the Native American saying as well (I've heard that one before too:) And yes I have ADHD.
You said A final thing in your post, that business of labeling behavior, or, worse, a whole unseen attitude, as "bad," "lazy," "stupid." Or add these labels, that I've heard both ADHD and non ADHD people say or write in the last couple months: "dumb" "unhelpful," "enemy," "self centered" (I've heard that one from both sides). I think labels like this are a pox on humanity, and I think it's getting worse and worse, across cultural groups.
Where to begin here? lol I think it is really important that you know who you are in the first place. If you have ADHD or any other label you can include in ways that would describe yourself......then, those are just labels or words no matter who says them.....if it's true and you know it then you should be Okay with it meaning....if it's not true and someone calls you "stupid" and any other derogatory name, that shouldn't bother you much only to the point that the person calling you that name is doing the same thing that this saying says.
I can't count the number of times I've done this and thought about it later and saw the same thing in myself. If you know who you are and you do this.....that is likely going to happen and you will stop doing it after a while....hopefully. If I am really angry with someone this will still happen on a few rare occasions, but as I'm saying it....I know it is not true. It's meant to hurt the other person but.....as I see it on the receiving end.....I also see that too so it means very little or nothing to me if that were to happen. I've been immune to name calling for quite some time and this is something that has little to no effect on me in the moment.
What is far worse and more damaging in the long run are the words that contain these labels without ever saying them. The accusations that are contained in all the words that get spoken over time is what is the most telling thing of all. I think it is too easy to forget what was said yesterday and the day before and it's the aggregate of negative remarks and comments that say these things and show how you see the person you are with that is the thing that you cannot escape from after a while.
I would much rather someone call me a "jerk" or "asshole" (or worse) to my face on occasion....that I can take and deal with no problem. I have no trouble getting over that because I don't take it in. If it's true and I have been properly described at the time....then I know that too. The choice of words is not the problem for me. This may be more of an issue for other people and in that case....this should be taken into consideration as well.
But to constantly speak as if I am someone who cannot be trusted (as a whole) and the mass of words said forms an opinion about the person I am based on a collection of failures to meet their needs......what these words say is "that you have failed me and you cannot be trusted. You cannot keep promises....you do not speak the truth.....and you are a deceitful untrustworthy person."
There are times when I think about how minorities, gay's and ethnic groups feel when they hear this in how people speak to them. The bias's and prejudice comes though in more than just the words that are said and I am sure ( being a middle aged white man in America ) there is a flavor of what that must be like in the way people say things to me at times that I get an idea of exactly how they must feel and why they become so outspoken against the slightest hint of this coming through the language that people use at times. You might tend to get a chip on your shoulder after a while and get pretty hypersensitive about it even though in the moment....it may not seem like a very big deal to the person who is saying the thing that causes this reaction in the other person.
Most importantly is the exact thing that you said......
Just a remark on that from the non-ADHD side: being seen for who I am, and interacted with for who I am, too, is what I am very, very hungry for, on my side of the relation: to be seen by my ADHD partner for who I am (not for who he fears, is conditioned to think, or conceives in his mind that I am), to be accepted for who I am and what I can do, and not be either ignored or called out, if I am being me, trying as best I can at the relation, over on my side.
It is lonely not to be very well observed, my sentences at times not heard clearly, to be interrupted and cut off, or to be walked out on, because his mind in the middle of a conversation went on to something else and so in his mind, contact with me was over.
The highlighted parts apply to the other side as well. Simply being seen for who you are instead of that person becoming invisible and the person that is seen is the collection or words that you hear over time. Those words are what you are really feeling when you say them and even in the moment when you are angry they may or may not be absolutely true just like calling someone an outrageous slander in commonly used vernacular when they are really just angry and frustrated.
My wife has issues with her memory and forgets many things that she says. She admits to having memory issues and compared to me....she forgets a lot of things that she says or remembers them incorrectly. This is more of an issue for her than it is for me. I count my blessings that my memory is still working very well most of the time. But sine she can't remember things well and is not very self aware either in the things that she says....she becomes pretty transparent and shows here mind whether she realities it or not. In one respect she is not pretentious.....that's not a bad thing....but since she does speak her mind anyway and this is what she does......these collections of words over time are the labels that she uses in this way that are much more telling and hurtful than simply blurting out that you are "a stupid jerk who doesn't know shit about nuth'in." The latter I can right off almost instantly because I know it is not true. What does that mean anyway? lol I know myself enough to know when someone is saying something about me that does not fit and words like these meant to "hurt you" in the moment do not hurt me at all.
What hurts are those attitudes and the accusations behind them that are not true and are falsely accessed. These are one that make you feel alone and invisible because the person you are is not really being seen. I think this is most definitely true working both ways and it is the very thing that you are saying here which I agree with you whole heartedly.
I think the answer is to always try and see the real person and not what is wrong with them. What is wrong with someone could be any number of things but still does not define the person that they really are. If you can see the real person at the same time you are seeing the thing that they do that is you don't like and speak to them from that place instead of the alternative....I think you hit the nail on the head and it is exactly the answer as difficult this is to do in the moment sometimes. Those moments add up and the tapestry that we weave in our relationship will not be a very pretty picture to stand back and look at if you aren't careful of the things you say.....on both sides of course.
J
A final thing in your post, that business of labeling behavior,
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
>>>
A final thing in your post, that business of labeling behavior, or, worse, a whole unseen attitude, as "bad," "lazy," "stupid." Or add these labels, that I've heard both ADHD and non ADHD people say or write in the last couple months: "dumb" "unhelpful," "enemy," "self centered" (I've heard that one from both sides). I think labels like this are a pox on humanity, and I think it's getting worse and worse, across cultural groups.
>>>
I think that many with ADHD grew up hearing, "you're stupid" or "you're lazy" or other attacks from friends, family, etc. Likely because while they were growing up, they were often doing "dumb" things (things that involve Executive Function Disorder). Listen to the frustrations of parents raising ADHD kids: "He forgets to turn in his homework," "I can't get her to do any chores," "he forgot that he had that important assignment," "she forgot that she had a biology test today," "he can't find his chemistry book," "she was supposed to turn in that permission slip for the fieldtrip, but forgot, so now she can't go," and on and on.
I have a son with mild ADHD. I remember dropping him off at school, and then getting a phone call telling me that his class had left on a field-trip at 7 the morning. Son never told me about it, never had me sign the permission slip, and so I had to pick him back up and take him home. While I didn't call him an "idiot," I'm sure that I scolded him for being so irresponsible. He is an A student, so he doesn't drive me crazy like many ADHD kids can do.
So, I imagine that children with more severe ADHD must hear negative comments all the time. My H has intimated that his siblings and some friends would give him a hard time (never his parents), and it made him very touchy. I think that's why he over-reacts now so much. It reminds him of being embarrassed when friends or siblings would point out some of the "dumb" things he did.
I don't know what those "dumb" things were that H did as a child, but I can imagine from what I have witnessed over the years. I once went to a box of cereal and found old stinky milk inside!!! H told me that when he had given the kids their cereal one morning while I was out, he had poured too much in their bowls (with milk in them), so he poured some cereal (with the milk!!!) back into the cereal box!!!!!!! (I'm sure 100% of people reading this must think my H has the IQ of a fly. But, no, H has a genius IQ. He just lacks what many call, "walking around smarts". Of course, on some level, H knows that "milk goes bad", and that milk must be refrigerated, but since his mind is "here and now," and when faced with an over-flowing cereal bowl, he went to the first thought in his head, "pour some back," without thinking, "hey, there's milk in there, not just cereal."
So, I can imagine that while H was growing up, he made a number of doozie mistakes.
Yes OW For Sure
Submitted by kellyj on
I think that many with ADHD grew up hearing, "you're stupid" or "you're lazy" or other attacks from friends, family, etc. Likely because while they were growing up, they were often doing "dumb" things (things that involve Executive Function Disorder). Listen to the frustrations of parents raising ADHD kids: "He forgets to turn in his homework," "I can't get her to do any chores," "he forgot that he had that important assignment," "she forgot that she had a biology test today," "he can't find his chemistry book," "she was supposed to turn in that permission slip for the fieldtrip, but forgot, so now she can't go," and on and on.
Kids do dumb things like this and to the point....I did and still do at times but it is now very rare. As a kid you get teased or have this pointed out constantly. Being labeled by other kids is one thing....getting labeled by your parent is another story. Scolding your ADHD child is appropriate since kids need this kind of thing and to further the point....I think (we) got it more than most. That's important to keep in mind only when it comes to seeing your H differently perhaps.
I think there is a point that you begin to prove to yourself your normal or smart in some ways and still not in others. Kids don't have the where for all to pay attention to these things enough to even know the difference between them and other kids. Only the times you get teased. This does not register like it should which is why you go through life thinking, well....all kids got into trouble occasionally so I'm no different. By the time you get to be an adult....all you know is your tired of getting teased or having things being pointed out to you. There's not connection between the past and the present excepting that part of it.
Since my T has ADD and so does his son.....he has told me enough from all perspectives to get me to go back and rethink these moments and make that connection. This has proved invaluable since I now can go back and go.....mmmmmm, yep, now I see it. But it takes this in order to do it I think. Not being able to see it now is even harder and more impossible to see it back then. I don't know how this can happen otherwise without someone literally explaining it to you at the time. I think kids and schools are more aware of bullying and teasing (more PC across the board) than back when I was little so you were pretty much on your own at that point. Kids can be brutal with each other unless there is a ref there to stop it. I managed through without getting picked on very much but I had other skills to fall back on. If you were Okay in sports as a little boy back then.....you got accepted anyway since someone was always looking for an extra body to fill up a team. If not...you were out in the cold.
The important thing here is not to feel sorry for people with ADHD that they got picked on or not.....the thing that is important is to understand the triggers and how to stay away from them by changing the words or avoiding certain things entirely. It's the hypersensitive persons problem....not everyone elses's. They need to figure this stuff out and not be so sensitive but....there is no point in pushing their buttons and further.....know what they are and why so you don't get your head bit off.....for your sake not theirs! lol This is only smart but not to have to walk on egg shells all the time. Something needs to happen to get a person with ADHD to see this and make adjustments more than you do. I firmly believe this now and it is the exact thing that I have vocalized to my wife now. I have to move more than she does but she needs to stay off my buttons....PLEASE!!!
To this day however.....when push comes to shove and I feel that twinge coming on...by default....I am convinced in the moment that people are just Fucking with me intentionally even when I know they aren't. This is really telling. That it's so engrained into my mental response that even when I am standing there and knowing all of this....that single to my brain says "you just doing this just to fuck with me on purpose." That's how strong this memory fragment has still stuck in there and still comes out despite knowing better. It is a powerful thing to be able to do this inside a person and it doesn't ever really go away even if you are completely aware of it. All you can do is learn to control it but it's still there none the less.
That's why it is so important to understand this and why not to do it. It takes and incredible amount of will power to over ride these moments and it is just asking for trouble on your end. That's also why I was bringing up taking on a parent role or punishing an adult the same as you would a child. It ignites these latent subconscious memories and it will only serve to make matters worse not better for anyone.
It serves no purpose either way:)
In my own experience, it is about control/power
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
O.W.W.,
I have had experiences in my relationship like the things you described. Once I became aware of it, I had hoped to find a way we could both come out with our dignity intact.
What I feel is very frustrated. When I explain how I feel in any given undesirable situation - unheard, over-powered, treated like a child rather than a partner - and those feelings are met with "Those are your problems" - my willingness to try to work things out is diminished further and further and further.
So, in an essence, what he perceives as problems, Liz perceives as having my feelings stomped into oblivion. I want to be in a place where I feel loved, respected, honored, and valued; and where my feelings get validated and acknowledged. He couldn't drive me away any faster from my willingness to try if he hit me with a stick.
My self worth has risen above the value of keeping my marriage.
Liz
The exact specifics
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
O.W.W.,
I was trying to determine exactly what it is that LIZ needs and wants.
Does this make sense:
The reason this is not working for me is that it is important in the realm of the relationship, that my spouse wants to understand:
It is a two way streak. Those things are, and were important for me, too. After so many years of twisting myself into knots, inside-out, upside-down, in an effort to please him and feel acceptable, BING! on came that light-bulb of understanding that no matter what I do, I will still need to do something more. In that realm, Liz got emotionally spent. It is sad to watch him stand firm in the belief that he was told he is not broken, and he is working hard. Period.
I do not want to remain is a relationship where I feel controlled and my feelings are belittled as wrong. I accept his view that I have problems - as simply that - his view. That is the exact point where the relationship issue comes into play. If Liz's choice is: "In order to remain in this relationship I must 1. accept that there is something wrong with me, and 2. my feelings, values and emotions are nothing but irritants" , than this clearly is not the relationship in which I choose to remain.
There is freedom for me in these and other ongoing revelations.
It is entirely mind blowing to watch someone in an angry posture, who is very defensive, insist he has no problem, he is ok.
Denial is strong. I can only back away and allow him to remain where he chooses to be. If he doesn't see it, will not address it, it will remain.
I detach with love. Not anger, not spite, not contempt. I hope he will see his own pain and decide he does not want to remain where he is. I was held hostage for a LONG time by him using his past against me - "I was never good enough, and now you are treating me the same way." Nope, I refuse to be placed in the same field as those people who treated him poorly. If that is how he chooses to see me, well that is disappointing, and only he can choose to want to see me for who I am.
In the mean time, I continue to look for any and all options I have. There are new choices to be made. Choices that will lead to happiness and freedom to be who Liz is meant to be. My internal peace is calm. I enjoy who I am. I value who I am.
The burden of our finances, that I so willing chose to carry, literally broke me. I have set it down, and am in the process of having professionals - who can look at it through different eyes - give me some other options. The reality is - it is a mess. And I cannot juggle it, smooth it, or pretend it to be anything but what it is - a huge monster I cannot tame alone.
Liz
>It is a two way streak.
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
>It is a two way streak. Those things are, and were important for me, too. After so many years of twisting myself into knots, inside-out, upside-down, in an effort to please him and feel acceptable, BING! on came that light-bulb of understanding that no matter what I do, I will still need to do something more. In that realm, Liz got emotionally spent. It is sad to watch him stand firm in the belief that he was told he is not broken, and he is working hard. Period. >>>>
Yes, it is a two way street. And, I also have come to the conclusion that no matter what I do, H is so damaged that he won't be happy. I have often pointed out the predicament that I face. If I do too much for him, and some little thing goes wrong, then I get blamed. If I let him manage things, and something goes wrong, then he's mad at me for not "helping" him and not finding a better option.
H hated the cell phone carrier that we had and often blamed me for it. Then when he moved into his brother's home, H changed to his brother's carrier (his brother insisted that his carrier was so much better). H was quickly unhappy with that and blaming his brother. Then when H returned home, we changed to a 3rd carrier, which H strongly agreed with changing to, and then soon H was mad at that carrier....and blaming me for this choice.