Unfortunately, the same cycle has come around but I now have a different perspective entirely. My wife, as I have become almost use to by now, has said she is leaving again. This has happened so many times before, that those words means next to nothing to me? This time however, I actually said "Okay, if that is what you decided to do, there is nothing I can do to stop you" That was in effect, me agreeing with her decision and now I am brought into it "as if"....I want this too. In fact, it's now come full circle back around where I'm the one who wants her to leave? I guess, allowing her to leave, or giving her permission like that, automatically includes me in the decision...as "if" I'm the one saying it? That to me, just speaks to co-dependence and not being able to make a decision like that by herself? In the past, I always said I didn't want her to, and that is not what I want? It's not what I want, but what I can live with, is the abuse that follows suit? The abuse comes in the form of then validating herself and trying to make her feel better about ( her decision ) and then fault and blame with me ( and dredging up anything and everything ) as a means to throw at me...and in essence "make me that person that she can't stand to be with". I am, and have been to this very day, just me and who I am and I have changed very little in what I have done or not done to date? I think, what she has done, was tried to create some image of what she wanted..and saw that all along. When I was playing my part or role she created for me....she would lash out in anger...for not being that for her? She has no recollection of this ( other person ) she becomes...and has no idea that what she is doing is actually a really messed up thing to do? Flipping in essence...from the poor me and wallowing in despair and pain....to viciously attacking me...for not being what she needs? This is nothing knew in that aspect, but the recent event of her coming home drunk....and giving me a 2 hour none stop down load of everything she hates about me....has left it's mark and there is no way to see past that anymore? That person, and those comments...are real, and there is no denying that? Even if I see the good person who she is, and even if she is not saying it or showing it....deep down, there is contempt, outrage and anger...that comes through whether she can see it or not? I haven't been the same since that afternoon she came home and did that...and of course, she can't remember doing it, that besides the point? If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to see it or hear it fall....does it still make a sound? And the answer for me is...yes. There is no un-ringing the bell, once it's been rung. That was my answer, but yet I was still not going to act on it, and use that against her as being the one and only thing that has caused this change in me. I cannot....not feel the pain and hurt and my broken heart...and that is what she will never know...because she has absolutely no concept of what she's done? And the fact of the matter is....I 'm tired of putting my heart out to her and exposing it and becoming vulnerable....and then for her to suddenly ( change ) into Mini Me again? I have to live with both Mini Me...and my wonderful beautiful wife....but at that point, if I have to have the abusive , explosive Mini Me 1/2 of the time and deal with that person....then the other 1/2 of the time...have this wonderful caring person...then at best it's a wash....but not without the side of effect of a broken heart each time it happens. I can't live with that since that is abuse. It's the only thing I've asked of her, and she simply can't do it? If I react or protest or even become angry....she will flip back to the other person..and now I'm the abuser or the abusive one which is literally insane? I cannot live, with that kind of insanity which for no other reason...is hurting me in the end? Even if, I can let go of that in the moment or even for a little while.....I now know for sure...it will happen again...when I do not play my part or role....of being a caregiver, an enabler, and just a shoulder to cry on? It would be one thing....to be that in a time of need....but not on a daily basis..and not all the time?
Her brother stopped in for a day or two while on his way to visit his extended family...and this time I watched how my wife would suddenly change? What my wife became, was exactly what she wants? A person who will only validate her, only have sympathy for her, and allow her ( or her brother ) to wallow in the pit of despair and stay in a permanent role of enabling the other persons malfunction...unconditionally? In respect to what Love is, to her brother and my wife....Love and compassion means...sympathy and enabling and never speaking one word or showing that anything they do is wrong? The worst thing you could possibly do...is to point out that they are wrong..or they have done something to hurt you...which would of course...make them feel guilt? Guilt apparently...is completely off limits, which goes right back to what my T has always said about " a person who refuses to take responsibility" When you are a victim....someone is always doing something to hurt you? They themselves can see no wrong doing on their part? The part that belongs to them, and that they are responsible for? While I can have compassion for my wife and her brother, and the horrible things that I have heard in respect to their childhood? I really don't think they can see what was really wrong...and the one person who is really to blame or at fault...is their own mother in this case? She was the adult, who is suppose to know better...they have no concept of just how bad that really was? That fact that my wife will defend and rally for her mother.....and still maintains that her mother really Loved her.....just shows me even more, that she has no idea what Love really is? The saddest thing of all, is that any real sings of Love and real honest to God caring...just goes right over her head...since that is not what she needs or is looking for? The fact is....she is entitled to have what she needs..and if I can't give it to her...it's not my place to say otherwise? If I have to become, something I'm not...to give her what she needs in only one way, which is to become an enabler, a vicitm and sympathizer only.....there is no Love there for me...since I need real Love instead? Not a bastardized facsimile...that is not even real? I definitely, cannot hold up our relationship and play both roles and still...at the end of the day....I get very little back ( if anything ) and I am only hurting myself if I continue to do that? There is no gratitude, thankfulness or appreciation for life or what she does have....all she can see is the glass half empty...while in the meantime..I see the glass as half full which only leaves on option? To adopt that kind of negative thinking and become a pessimist who has no ability to trust, and is negative all of the time? Even if I am immune to her negativity....that leaves me with knowing...and holding and empty glass in my hand? That is no way to live..and be a happy and fulfilled person? Simply not saying "don't go"...and in just "agreeing" with her that if she is gone, then what's the point? Was really clearly what she was wanting since she could not do that or say that without some input from me? Every time in the past....the many many times she has does this....i always said....I don't really want to you go.....but this time....all I had to say was....well, I guess that's it? It not my decision or wasn't mine to begin with. But living with someone who is 9 /10ths of the way out the door at all times..and is right on the edge of leaving...means, what I get is 1/10th of a relationship...and 1/10th of a person and what little comes with it?
My T was ( as usual ) absolutely right....a dismissive / avoidant person is 9 out of 10 times...always the one who leaves? I just never realized how little was there aside from in physical form...which is not much when you think about it...with the cherry on top...no Love in sight? I really believe that none of what she has ever done...was with intention or malice ir even in conscious act to manipulate me all? But the constant and consistent pattern that remains...is one...who is always 10 steps out the door, closed off, hold up and shunted as a person? I see her as a shell, or specter of what she could be that's for sure....but no one can make someone do anything they don't want...and my wife has made it clear what she wants and what she doesn't want...and the truth....is what she does not want in fact...what she wants...is someone to patronized her, take pity and sympathy on her...and allow her to remain a victim and wallow in that pit of despair? I do feel sorry for her...as I do for myself...only in that when you find someone who you can trust and that you Love you only want to give to them that in return? But if that is not what they want..and they reject that and throw it back in your face...in service of something else? Where is the Love...and what are you really having a relationship with? Not a who in this case.....but what? If the currency is only sympathy only...then where is the Love? Sympathy...is not Love. That much I do know without a doubt in my mind. It very hard to Love someone, when all they want is sympathy? And in her case, she has a job...which that is exactly what she is for her clients....the only problem is when she comes home....is that is what she wants from me now in return? She does know how to give that which was very clear to me when her brother stopped by...and when they get together...they literally form one whole person or two equal halves...instead of two people, who have each other....not for each other...but have each other and share as one flesh...by two complete whole individuals? That's what I want....but that will never happen. I cannot be support for 1/2 a person...while in the mean times...her alter ego or evil twin. ( Mini Me ) is attacking me for not holding her up enough...as if that's my job? A marriage is not a "job" or "duty"....it's not suppose to only have one side to it...and it's not suppose to take from you only without the give and take part both, and give nothing in return. I'm not angry or even resentful....I'm just sad, hurt and disappointed. You cannot live on hope and prayer...and give to yourself only. I can still Love her enough, to see the goodness in her? I just wished I got some of that goodness she has locked up so tight, that she guards that with her life as if she will run out if she gives it away? I need to have that, without the unresolved pain and suffering at the hands of someone who is not me? I'm not responsible for that what so ever, but subconsciously or not...my wife believes or thinks I am? Who ever she thinks I really am....is unknown to me, and I have no idea...who that person really is? Not me....that 3rd person...I am in her minds eye....suppose to be? That is an impossible expectation, with not a shred of logic, anywhere in sight? It literally, makes no sense to me, what so ever even if I can understand it on that level of understanding? And if she can't tell me what she wants and can't say what she really feels...then that is living a lie....and living in a fantasy world, not the world where I exist. The is a world of illusion, that doesn't even exist.
J
Just an Update..on ( our ) Status
Submitted by kellyj on 05/04/2017.
Acceptance
Submitted by jennalemone on
You said: "My T was ( as usual ) absolutely right....a dismissive / avoidant person is 9 out of 10 times...always the one who leaves" I've been thinking of this. As true. As I was reading this, I was thinking that you are thinking clearly now. From your writing it has seemed that your W has had a cavalier attitude about your relationship and about you. I know it is hard to accept and you want to keep giving more chances. But it is best to accept along with the pain and disappointment that come with that acceptance. Just wanted you to know that I read what you wrote and I get it.
Thanks for the Encouragement
Submitted by kellyj on
I really do think at this point Jenne, that my W has some cognitive challenges or related to something else besides speculating about any diagnosis she might have? And I've been seeing my T long enough to know, that he never makes absolute predictions or even advise since as he shared with as he said gave me of an example of "one time" he told a lady that he thought she should move and and leave her husband. He says he's regretted that decision ever since. He came to the conclusion after he told this lady that advise ( that she stopped seeing him after that ) that he worried about that after the fact and was really concerned for a long time afterwards? He said, he ran into this woman later one time and she told him how things worked out and yes...she did leave but it was not for the reasons that he had originally based his decision on? That was the most confirming thing to him he said? Things changed, and changed and changed again..and by the time she left...the original reason was water under the bridge. As he described it...he dodged a bullet on that one and he will never forget how that really affected him? And if you stop and think about it really...when you spend so little time with someone, and they are not "ever there" to see the real story play out, there is just so much they can really know, but only what people say? They aren't there, in other words..you are? And you are a much better judge of what you see happening on a daily basis, than anyone including him in this case? What he does, is give you tools to work with? Tools for you to use, so you can do that by yourself?
Jokingly one time I said...'Well if I had the money...I could just hire you to follow me around everywhere like a personal servant...but with the goal of just having you there to confer with and give advise" And he said. "I think that's the problem in the first place and that would ( for some ) only make it worse not better? Having someone there at your beckon call, would allow you to never figure any thing out on your own.....now would they" ( paraphrasing but that's pretty close ) The "thing" is....my wife did open up to me the other day an made some admissions to me? ( I think honest ones due to her feeling like she had made a decision to leave ) In fact, I have long since let go of anything she has said that was "untrue" as being a lie? I really see past "not making true statements"...as not lying at all? My w is a good person in her heart and my intuition has always said that to me? Her heart is in the right place....but her dysfunction what ever it is...is more than just ADHD or.....it's very severe. This I have no experience myself so there is no way for me to really decern this or now exactly what I'm seeing. All I really know, that what I'm seeing at times a) makes no sense ( she makes no sense or speaks to me in ways that are "aberant"? meaning....something else more to do with what I truey believe is an impairment of some kind? Meaning, she is genuine...it's not intentionally being contrary, lying, hiding some dark secret or being even being sophisticated enough about it to be sneaking behind my back. I really am not getting that impression at all which is why my trust in her had stayed virtually untouched or changed ( with eye wide open ) When she just opened up ( genuinely ) and said...I don't even know who I am or what my identity is? I don't even know what Love is? I don't know how I feel about anything? I think, those were honest words and she was not even trying to gain sympathy for no other reason? I think she knows that something is wrong...but here ability to problem solve and use any rational thought or logic applied to her own behavior ( let alone mine which is so off the chart at times in what she thinks she see's ) and after all that I have talked to her about...I truely believe..that she has some real problems with her memory beyond what I thought? She almost cannot remember what people say? Like ....it bounces off her and does not penetrate into her brain? When she is fine, she is very lucid and quite aware. But when she goes into her "manic state"....all logic leaves the building along with Elvis. If I compare what I know about myself.....it could be, that this is just a very extreme version which then goes into a different realm of what I can real;y grasp or understand? And when she stops making sense....I can see the impairment. It's not an attitude or even as you say...cavalier? It goes into uncharted territory for me...and I simply have never seen what I see here..and have no other reference that what she says? And in the same respect to that, my T doesn't have more than me...only the ability to pin point the problem..and use that as his guide? I have on my side....a vast amount of observation in "real time" that he doesn't have so between the two of us...he knows more in one aspect...and I know more in another? And of course...he always focuses on me and what I am doing more with me...than talking about her. I have long since learned...if I even attempt to complain about anything with anyone else...at this point, that always comes right back to me? The "kidd gloves " are off...in my case...but they definitely are "on " with her which is my best indicator since...he doesn't push at all with her? He is a very soft touch that I simply do not have in my repetoire in the same way he does? But that goes with 35 years of sitting there doing what he does? i don't expect to be that good, but I'm trying to pick up some cues and techniques to help me with that too? The point is...he doesn't have to live with her, I do? As he says..."I have the luxury, of never having to judge anyone and I don't" which I get that? Like I said, he is a professional, and that is his job which is not the case with me. But to the point of him making that statement or pointing to avoidant /dismissive and perhaps, posing that based on the statistics plus her own story to go into it....I know think that "disorganized attachment" is really a better fit?
I think this is where.....my eyes and experiencing might be what he would really need...if he were to come an observe in real time ( or my remote camera and microphone ) and really see what is happening himself as a witness..instead of just hearing our inputs from our own perspectives which can be vastly different? And in the same way I used that KISS example with C earlier...( and this is just completely observational and taking things literally at face value ). What comes out of her mouth...sounds "disorganized " to me? Not a bit of logic missing...but completely incoherent at times? And even though her brother suffered the childhood experiences ( and his own share of really awe -ful stuff )..despite his diabetes, his "stoke" or what ever he had happen..,he can actually remember things from his past..even if his short term memory is really bad. I have no problem understanding him, intuiting him and having empathy with him...even though is really checked out at times and completely unaware of some things but not others? He makes sense...and my wife does not? Not making sense to the degree I've seen at times...is really "dissociative episodes" ( as I see them? )...and is just plan "out there" which I got nothing in my bag of tricks when someone is having hallucinations or distortions of reality...that bad? To the point, that they adamantly believe them as real and cannot see any way out of them? This just doesn't look like ADHD to me...even though she has all those symptoms too, being inattentive and completely unaware of herself? I see no malice what so ever.....but more impairment that she cannot help of do anything about on some level...along with everything else? And since I do have a handle of the Attachment theory enough to understand how that works? It only shows up...in your intimate relationships and not with anyone else including freinds, family member and co-workers. Only with me....that's the point? So when my T says....'I'd be looking at Attachment theory instead of ADHD to me" as I hear him speak and knowing him for 17 years now....I know he telling me....not her....without pointing any fingers just for my own understanding and benefit? To the point...when I see the man that I've known for 17 years...suddenly get very closed lipped and start speaking in code....I have to consider...that this is not for my benefit since...that would really be stupid...after all that we've talked about with me and everything I know? When I see him start "tip toeing" around topics...then that tells me...he's not afraid of speaking up for his own benefit...but he doing what he feels is best for her...which I've tried my best to do as well? When it's that "touchy" and "touch and go" as I watched even with him...at least it validates what I am seeing....and seeing there is more to it...than I really have any understanding about? When things go suddenly from, stressful or even cognitively annoying or even "poor behavior"...to "bizarre and unusual" I have way to place that? In my experience? Bizarre is me really saying honestly...nothing I've seen before ever?
The one thing I mentioned however in respect to a "real connection"? I finally, for the first time...talked about Anxiety and OCD..and told her that I think she is OCD..and she didn't have a problem with that? And then actually talking about catastrophic thinking..and for the first time ever...she agreed with me on that? Admitting to me...that this is what she does along with PTSD? Finally, admitting both of those and accepting them...was a major break through...which still leaves a whole lot of "messed up" in there, that I still can't put my finger on exactly? Bizarre and unusual....more than just cavalier? At least if I did a side by side comparison? She basically avoids anything...that causes her to feel anxious or stressed in any way? Which really just looks like someone who can't stand even the slightest bit of comfort pain? And this is hard to watch from my perspective since my tolerance to physical and actually even emotional pain...is pretty high? I can stand a great deal more, that most people I know so I have to keep that in mind....knowing that I am ( in a good way in some respects ) much more tolerant on a number of different levels? And this isn't about having distortions or "looking away" or even dissociation myself? This is just me, standing the pain...and letting it pass and actually experiencing it fully and just tightening my boot straps and grinning and bearing it? But I also realize...that I conditioned myself, and built up to that..over many many years to finally build up that kind of tolerance? I don't expect my wife ( or you ) or anyone else to simple just decide one day and have that work. I know better there too...but at times, none of that helps me really see what is actually going on? And since, she can't say so or tell me....it;s like I'm a Vet with injured dog...who can't say where it hurts? This is really accurate in the way it feels to me sometimes. J
You see it so clearly J....
Submitted by c ur self on
Much of my desire to help bring clarity to the situations and realities you have stated in this post is what has caused so much of my pain, and her so much of hers... (And I would venture to say, the pain of many who is reading this)...It don't matter how bad we want something for someone else, they have to want it also!...There in lies the problem of human relational dysfunction. One can never make the attachment for the two.
Victim's can never give themselves; they are too blinded by there own wants and perceived needs from others...And you are right, unless they receive freedom from that mind, they will never know real love. I'm sorry you are dealing with this...The way I read your post, no matter how bad you hate it, you see it for what it is...At the end of the day that is all we can hope for; our own self awareness and peace with the reality of what stands before us...
C
Thank You .....C
Submitted by kellyj on
You know, the one thing, that I have really come to terms with and I do see very clearly now. This is in direct relationship to this whole Narcissism topic....which in my past, really cut deeply from my own experience with? What you said here you stated well. For my own healing and letting go of the past....I have gained a great deal of insight in exactly as I see it now, what my T said to me long ago about me when I came to him so concerned about my own behaviors even before he officially diagnosed me which is where this comment came from? This was talking about me now as he said "you've got, the flavor of it in some ways "...which now really hits the mark? In a literal sense...if you taste something bad, and it taste exactly the same between two different things....if it taste the same, feels the same, and even looks the same on that level....what are you going to conclude? And I realized just from that and changing how I see this now....I realize, this is what you all have to with us...when you see something that looks just like something else...even when you know it's not....it's very difficult thing to get past. Very very difficult as I found out myself? But the fact of the matter is....it's not what it taste like after all which was a very good example for him to use even with me? Just knowing, that wasn't my issue...took a load off, but still left me that realization? It's that realization, in itself, that really made the difference when I could connect what he was saying? It was also my way of suddenly realizing the times I felt so hurt with my own mother? I could really see the difference with living with these two...unrelated but had a similar taste at times...which is exactly what he said?
And even with everything I know about my mother...and seeing all the bad equally well? My mother, was a sweet heart...right down to her core. She would never..in a million years..do anything to anyone to hurt them intentionally. This I knew even as a kid...and never doubted her in that way...even when she did do things that made me pause at times...but always realizing there was that think...where she would give her life for her children if she was put in that situation ( and she would say it to us too ) that she meant it, sincerely...that was not lip service what so ever? She knew what Love was...but at times, just got kind of confused as well? If I had to use one word to easily tell the difference? She was mostly giving...always...and my father was never giving ever...he was miserly, stinging, and was always on the make? ( 24/7 ) He got his kicks...out of controlling people..and he Loved more than anything to manipulate people to his will? That was what he did best....better than anyone I ever saw? When they say...: "he could sell shit to a fly" or looked that up in an encyclopedia....there would be my dad picture next to it, with a big grin on his face. Winning, was everything, and he was very good at winning? it was cold and calculating....with only one goal in mind? With awareness and intention...even though the intention, was extremely well covered up by something else, which was the Charleton or the "wolf in sheep clothing". I cannot even say he was a pathological liar, only in that even when he lied ( which he had no qualms in doing so if needed ) it was not just pathetical...it was always connected to something...but that something was getting something he wanted in a very deceptive way? When it finally hit me...that "everything" I new about him was a lie....that is when the "cold fish" that I always knew...made perfect sense in a most startling and disheartening way? When you realize the void, or complete absence of Love....that is a startling revelation...that is very hard to come to terms with? That's not "confused"....that is just vacant....or absent. It's one of things, that is really hard to explain, but there are certain looks..and mannerisms that are more subtle that tip you off? I always explained those away as something else.....but when I realized "what" that was....it also suddenly made sense in a most disheartening way? At least at this point, I am not too worried about my inability to spot that when I meet people now? I know now, what that feeling is...and it is just a sense of feeling....but it is very real..and I know it more by how it feels....not by how it tastes? Tastes are deceiving.....feelings and intuitions are a lot more reliable ( once you know what they are ) are not deceiving at all, once you know the difference? And that is what is very confusing still, since I never really got that feeling....but the taste is definitely there at times. Nothing can compare to that feeling though, and that is reserved for the entire package, once I seen it for long enough? Not to belabor DT.,.....but I got that feeling immediately....just from listening to him and nothing else? It's just one of those things that you had to be there I guess? With my wife, it is very much as you said C...but it hurts the same, until you can really know, that it really is not intentional in anyway which is a call for more compassion I think than anything else? I still run kind of "short" on compassion, when I see someone like DT...cause, I actually do know what a mind like that is thinking and that kind of thinking just pissing me off? Only when it effects me..and I still see people believing him...but there is nothing I can do or say..to change peoples mind of that? Unfortunately...that effects everyone in his case ( unless your his children )....actually take that back? If you notice...he favors one child for sure and the other "boys" possibly? But with a true Narc..and you are of no use to them....you are worthless and pretty much garbage....and it comes out since they are not very good at hiding that...when they've made up their mind that you are not worth their time or effort. You're only value....is if you serve them...and if you don't...you have "0" value to them what so ever? I can honestly say now, in what I've learned that these are probably much more rare indeed...and to the point that what I now know of ADHD or anything along those lines.....it is not Narcissism....only saying...you could have that too. The feeling you get ( which I will not ever forget ) is what is different and that is not something I can explain. I can just tell, that's all can say? There is hope there for sure...unlike what I experienced with my father. It is the very thing, that makes the difference for me in how I see my wife as different and can see her as different, not just the symptoms or behaviors themselves. I totally get now...why, you should try and diagnose yourself. There is a lot more to it, than reading it out of a book? Assume, otherwise and I think you'll be safe in making that assumption.
Oh one more thing as I thought about this comparison. Narcissistic Rage....is not...Emotional lability. Narcissistic Rage ( as I saw with my father ) is very specific and has to do directly with Narcissistic injury. Emotional lability is very non-specific indeed. Extreme opposites and not just a temper tantrum. Narcissistic Rage..as far as I can tell, is not just having an emotional out burst, it not from frustration or irritation, and it's not a temper tantrum. That's when I can see it more clearly....but it has to happen in context, to connect it that specifically? Lets just say....it's not random by any means. Much different, that what I experienced, or what I hear in most of the stories on this forum for sure? That one too...you'd just have to be there? Hopefully....no one would have to....better, to not ever have to...that is all I have to say.
J
J, I'm so sorry...and
Submitted by dedelight4 on
J, I'm so sorry about the situation between you and your wife, and I do know how much pain this can be, and can truly say that without any reservation. We want our spouses to "know" us in that deeper marital sense, but there is just something (it seems like) in them that won't let them "go there". My husband has this difficulty also, and it's hurt terribly to know I was very "in love" with him, but he never felt that way towards me, and wouldn't verbally or (couldn't) verbally say how he felt......truly felt. And, with us, like so many others, the courtship was so different from the "after the I do's", as well as all the other situations that came up between us.
My husband wants us to work things out, now, and says he found out "he not in love" with his old girlfriend, which is one of the reasons I left last year. The Christmas before last, he told me that she was his "first love and only girl he had ever been "in love" with". Man, I totally wish he had told me all those years ago, BEFORE he asked ME to marry him. It just didn't make any sense. It still doesn't, not really. He also while I was gone got into a "legal" business contract with her that will keep them in contact. They wrote a book together about music, and it IS being published, and will require them to do some book tours. But, I don't see how he could justify this in ANY way, especially since he said he now knows he "loves me", and he was just "not thinking right" before. But, he keeps saying, "it's just a business deal", and "it's going to make us money which we need". But, to me, this is NOT the kind of situation he should have ever gotten himself into, ESPECIALLY when he was telling me how much he wanted US to work things out.
That, with so many other things where we can't seem to verbally communicate, and his mind goes in 20 directions at once. I told him I can't trust him right now, and I don't know how long it's going to take BEFORE I can trust him, if at all. He does seem genuine in wanting to "get back together". He's being very nice to me, and trying to do things for me, which he wouldn't contemplate at all before. But, for me, "You can't un-ring the bell", like you said in your statement. He's been unfaithful, not once but twice now, and I have to clean up what's left of our lives here in this house, to know EXACTLY where I stand financially and legally with him and our household. His health has been rapidly declining, which we have to get checked out. He's not doing much of anything currently, which is bizarre for him.
Anyway, the damage leftover, from the years of denial, not facing himself and his ADHD, and still not wanting to face the impact of what part it still plays in our lives, is the elephant in the room. It is hard when one person gives so much of themselves, and hopes and prays maybe the other will "see" the love there, (not control) but one person alone can't do a marriage. A marriage takes two people. The years of my husband trying to "fight" being connected to me, like being "connected to me" would somehow endanger him, and like if he gave and/or showed too much of himself, would be more dangerous than anything he could think of. FEAR. I know his mother had a LOT to do with this, and he's become very much like she was, and he defended her actions for years. He changed that some, after knowing that she had a mental disorder, but that's a hard thing to change also.
OH, I read all the things you wrote about change. I think I understand what you were saying. I understand that I can't continue to do things in the same way and expect change in him, and that's where I'm at.......now doing many things WITH him in a different manner. What I do know, is that HE won't change in any way, until he faces his ADHD, and wants to work on the behavior end of things. (for himself and BOTH of us) (also the co-morbid things) I listened to many more of Dr. Russell Barkleys videos on Youtube, and it was a relief to hear so many of the things he had to say.
Anyway, you're on my mind tonight, and I just wanted to say HI, and I'm thinking about you and you're in my prayers this evening, and will be continually.
Dede
I Feel For You as Well ..Dede
Submitted by kellyj on
Really, it;s the same things I'm feeling for myself. It is a tough situation, with little hope in sight? I thought about a way to describe myself here in just how I am seeing it maybe as just a comparison to your husband from the sound of things? And maybe a little bit of this is starting rub off on your husband too? Really and truly, this was how it worked for me, so I am speaking from hind sight now? This goes right back to the "Prodigal Son" parable which is a perfect way to describe what you are saying too? Between the father, and the older son...the older son could only see the laws, and rules that were broken in terms of reward and punishment..and the father did not differentiate between his two sons...only recognizing the younger sons return and his contrition that he showed. ( the remorse ) The problem is, when you can see that you have done nothing "wrong"...you won't feel any remorse if you will? But with the ADHD part, "remorse" has nothing to do with it? It';s not a moral thing...but that does not account for your husbands behavior and choices he made? Being confused is not a crime...but when being confused...hurts others then you have to look at that closely and see if they learned anything? So as, so they won't do it again? That doesn't help you out that much, if he suddenly changed again and away he goes???
I don't think I did not Love in my past? I think I got it confused at times which was more of the problem? I think for what ever reason, I may have possessed a little more insight into myself than your husband however, since I can't recall ever....being in Love with someone...and then later when it didn't work out...( based on how I feel now ) saying....I never Loved you or I don't think I ever Loved you? I remember being in Love!!! And I remember...not being in Love? Just because I am NOT....feeling in Love with someone now....didn't erase how I felt back then at the time? That is just a rationalization I think....to make a person doing this feel better about what they did? In fact...to avoid feeling "remorse" and feeling responsible for what they did?
And that goes right back to what my T said Dede. A person who refuses to take responsibility...is a victim? In avoidance of feeling the pain from their own mistakes which will be the very thing that will allow them to continue and not make any changes? Which is why they are a victim. Since they will keep being in service of their dysfunction instead of changing? So they will remain a victim and not change? I think in the story of the Prodigal son, what the father saw was remorse and a willingness with humble low expectations from his son....that he be received and redeemed and was only looking for redemption....not as a way out or an excuse to stay the way he was and not. He saw promise, instead of excuses and a willingness to do so...on his own without having to ask?
I google this and took this paragraph out of the story just to show you what I think you should do as well?
On the son's return, the father treats him with a generosity far more than he has a right to expect.[7] Some have suggested that this mirrors what Christians should do after sinning: feel contrition and return to their Heavenly Father, who will graciously welcome them back.[8]
The older son, in contrast, seems to think in terms of "law, merit, and reward",[7] rather than "love and graciousness."[7] He may represent the Pharisees who were criticizing Jesus.[7]
The father, who represents our Heavenly Father, implies to the older son that his love for both sons is not dependent upon their perfection, but their willingness to return to Him with a broken heart and a contrite spirit.
So Dede..in context here to put things into perspective....I think this story relates exactly to the coming of age and growing up and leaving your childhood behind. Not having children myself, I think makes this even more difficult in one aspect, since you don't officially have that "changing or the guard" experience and all you learn from it. And speaking for myself again....I think there is a misconception or fallacy in thinking that for someone who doesn't have children...then they will never have that experience and cannot ever get there any other way? That is a false way of seeing things since....I "got there" and didn't have children and I did it anyway? You don't have to have children...to learn to take responsibility? The are married people with children who don't....( refuse to take responsibility ) and there are unmarried people with no children who do? Either way?
But more importantly, if you were raised by a child...then that is all you know? I was not raised by children in that respect...but my wife certainly was as I saw her mother, and the way she saw things? Though the eyes of a child...or in a sense...through the eyes of the older brother in the story? The older brother was not yet an adult....but the father was, that's the point?
I think the same fallacious argument has been made at times...by Christians who say....without a strong faith and believe system....you would have no moral compass? I've heard that one too..so I know that some feel this way? But I was more like the Prodigal son in the story but that had more to do with just being slower in developing due to my ADHD and other challenges? But the lessons you learn the "hard way" are ones you never forget? The oldest son might be all self righteous...but in that respect....he hadn't learned what his younger brother had learned and will never know what it is like....to fail...and then be forgiven? He might as well, in that respect...be worse off now...than his younger brother who he still sees the same....because he hasn't changed...I think an important point to be made here?
And I'm not implying in any way in bringing up that story to you. The only thing that you could compare it too with you...is just not knowing what that is like to fall down and fail so badly yourself...and then know what it like to be forgiven with Grace? Possibly only the lack of insight that this gives you when you go through that yourself? But as far as my wife and our future together will show? I am going to continue on the path I am on..and keep striving to change myself? If my wife cannot, or will not...go through the pain..land experience it out of weakness....then she will leave and go looking for a place or someone who will allow her to stay the same...to avoid pain..and to avoid having to do, what is uncomfortable? Her example with her own mother...was the worst one possible I'm afraid. Even the fact that both my parents were quite a bit older when I was born....( 40 and 33 years old ) gave my parents an advantage...compared to my wife's mother who was 18 years old when my wife was born? And from what I saw in how she saw and did things...she might have been responsible in all other ways....but she denied that anything was wrong with her...right to her last dying day? Actually, she knew on some level that something was wrong with her....but he denied that she did "anything wrong" as far as her children goes..and how she negatively affected them? All she was looking for, was someone to take care of her? Like a child would see things...through the eyes of a child? If that's my wife's choice too...then so be it...I cannot give her something that is not mine to give? When the first sign of trouble comes and the pain come on....and your first response is to run away....that is no good as far a a partner is concerned? I can do better...if I choose to in the future but only if my wife makes that choice, and decides she likes it...right where she is? Her choice no mine...but I don't have to allow that to affect me either?
I think the Prodigal Son...is the perfect story in helping me sort this out.
J
PS the musical version, since you like music ;) https://youtu.be/IaZGljc5Xp0