At a loss...where do you go from here?!

hi there! well I know what

Submitted by kenya on Thu, 02/11/2010 - 19:42

hi there! well I know what you mean and feel like I'm in the same boat. I am married to an amazing man with ADHD or ADD. He takes medication and has been really great about helping out with things. We also have a little one. I just feel like I cannot communicate with him if we share differences. When we argue, it gets heated for the most part and mean things are said. I'm ignored, and in a way punished for our fight. I have never fought with anyone in a manner like this or felt torn apart by someone. I am a strong independent educated woman. I do stay home with our child but have a business I am trying to make something of. I feel like he resents me only in an argument that I stay home and that I don't appreciate him much. Well I do and i try to do so much around the house or help with business stuff to make things easier.. but my job is hard too and I rarely have time to give to the things I would like to do. When I have confided in him in an argument it is thrown in my face making me feel as though I cannot trust him with my deepest intimate feelings or experiences. When we make up we are fine and he seems to express things about what happened or how we may have both felt and there is a deep desire of love and dedication, but this pattern always repeats itself. We argue it gets blown way out of proportion he leaves and there is no mention of where he is going or when he will be back. I've expressed how this makes me feels and how its hard with a baby to go through such feelings in a stressful moment only for him to seem to understand and then do it all over again. I too do not want to have any more children until we can communicate effectively!! I have never experienced such hardship with someone ever and felt so torn down. I know that he used to be put down by others in the past and has a complex about this, but I am not the one who did that but I pay the price. His mother is extremely nice and we are very close but I feel like his family excuses his blowups and lets them just pass on by without addressing it or how the comments he makes makes a person feel. I have seeked counseling with him for him to only quit, tried reading books, tried different suggestions to what we could do when we hit that wall.. but we are still in the same place. I am blamed for a lot, yet i have never been around someone who can be so sweet and loving one minute then short tempered and irritated within minutes.. Its hard and we may not have the ADD but we are also living with it in a sense. This site does help me to vent and get other's opinions. My husband has looked at a few blogs and was very open to it and it made me feel so good that he was interested in involving himself to find answers along with me.. but that was once and who knows if that will ever happen again.. I can mention it and he may be open to it or just say he is and never come to it. I feel so frustrated, confused, angry at how i am treated with such lack of respect and such mean things said to me out of anger just to purposely hurt me. I have become an angry person when we argue and that is not me! Maybe we can help each other out or someone may have some insite to what may help.. i wish you luck and I know how you feel. Take care of you and appreciate the good things your husband does and notice that they do love us and are trying too.. maybe as women we just put more into it.. i don't know it just seems unfair and hard to deal with at times.

I know what you mean...

Submitted by phoenixgirl78 on Sat, 02/13/2010 - 16:18

On some scores anyway.

My husband is an expert at self-sabotage. And it's very difficult to get someone to see something like that. It's not even self-sabotage so much as he'll decide things will be a certain way and then doesn't see any other indications. So if he gets excited about something, he completely misses all the blaring warning signs. If he doesn't think something will work, he can't see anything but the ways it will fail.

I think a lot of the things you're feeling -- or, rather, not feeling ala not feeling like making romantic gestures etc -- is the rage at being deceived. Marriage is a huge deal, and, while no one gets quite what she bargained for, you came away with a very different man than the one you thought you were marrying. That's big. And you need to go ahead and accept that you're going to be angry and resentful about it. Even though it's understandable why he acted the way he did, it's not okay that he did it. You need to deal with these feelings -- preferably with a counselor of some sort -- or you're not going to be able to get past it. You say the lower his self-esteem, the less attracted you are to him. That's understandable in general. But it's especially so because, once again, this isn't the man you thought you were marrying. So this is just another way that your brain sees him pushing this new man on you. It's hurtful and your reactions are more toward his deception (I think) than his lack of confidence. That said, my husband's low self esteem drives me crazy at times. It's part of being with an ADDer. Mainly, my guy tends to brag. He's quieted down about it over time -- I basically told him, "Look, I love you. I'm here. You don't have to convince me that you're great." -- but when he's feeling particularly insecure it will rear up again.

I have to ask, though, how long were you two together before marriage? It seems pretty unlikely that he would be able to hide his ADD characteristics for long. I had the advantage of marrying a man who had been diagnosed (if not treated) for years. But still, the traits are hard to miss. So did you guys live together before marriage? Was he just making a really, really, really concerted effort (and frankly that's not sustainable for too long) during dating/engagement? Or did you rush in? Because if you didn't have a whirlwind romance, my guess is that you ignored certain signs. That's not to blame you. Just a) curious and b) trying to take a real look at the situation.

You say that you're very good at self-assessment. That may be true. After years of therapy, I've gotten pretty good at keeping tabs on myself (severe depression). Even so, none of us can ever have a whole picture of who we were. Not a whole, objective picture. There are things that my husband sees that I simply don't notice. No man is an island and nobody is able to see a 360-degree picture of who she is.

I know what it's like to be somewhat perfectionistic and have a short temper. My belief is that the two are tied together. If I try so hard to get everything right, how dare people not do the same? How dare they slack off and go easy on themselves. Over time, I'm learning that their way is a lot easier and saner. Not that you shouldn't try to do well, but that it's okay to not beat up on yourself, demand perfection (because it's impossible) and that you can be happy with yourself as an imperfect being.

The thing about perfectionism is that you demand the impossible -- from yourself and from other people. So when you are angry at your husband's low self-esteem, remember that some of your personality traits play into that. It's not your fault, but it is an exacerbating factor. If he knows how much you demand from yourself and from others, he knows he can't measure up. Add that to the fact that he deceived you on such a primary level, and you have the perfect makings for low ego.

I think his thing about the meds is another cry for amnesty in your perfectionism. He's trying to tell you that the meds won't make him perfect, even if they make him better. Even on meds, he'll still have ADD traits, he'll just have more control over them. He won't be as forgetful and his attention span will be longer.

He may also be trying to push you away as part of the poor ego. He knows he lied to you in some nearly unforgivable ways and now the meds aren't magically transforming him. He sees your frustration and anger, and the bewilderment at the situation you are thrust into. So he may think he's not worth it -- since he's convinced you wouldn't have married him otherwise and you've more or less agreed -- and so is trying to give you the out he thinks you want. The real question is whether you want it. As a perfectionist, I'd imagine it's difficult for you to accept the idea of a failed marriage, even for such understandable reasons.

As for behavioral problems/making systems/you changing vs him changing... That's a subject that you'll see a lot of on here. You say that you two come up with behavioral programs but there's no follow through. That's a very big ADD characteristic. It's not that there's no follow-through. it's that he's either completely forgetting or has no idea how to proceed.

This can be maddening, I admit. But you will hit upon ways to make it work. And they come more easily over time. The biggest thing is, if you create a goal, you need to work with him, step-by-step, to figure out how to achieve it. If you do that a couple of times -- especially if he's medicated -- he'll learn how to do it himself. I had to teach my husband how to deal with insurance companies and I nearly killed him about 100 times. The thing is, though, that ADDers tend to be at a loss on how to proceed. They can follow directions without problem and probably even embellish on results. But if you leave them to figure it out themselves, they have no idea how to start (every detail is a possible beginning to them and they're overwhelmed -- my husband once told me that, when trying to figure out where to start cleaning the kitchen EVERY ITEM in the room was a possibility, he had no filter). Then they worry about failure (which they got a lot of flack for in the past) and either give up or are simply too overwhelmed to get started.

So, if you're creating programs that he can't follow through on, you're not creating the right programs. And it can be torture, at times, to get them to talk about what works. But it does get easier. Now, when my husband and I create any plan, I ask him what he needs to remember it. If we agree to a step without that, it tends to go unfulfilled. So if we agree to a step and move on, I sometimes have to backtrack and say "Wait, will that work for you?" and sometimes he admits it won't. But he's so afraid of disappointing or frustrating me, he doesn't want to say anything.

The real key to systems is finding out what visual or auditory clues your husband needs. It may seem exasperating, but it's just a different form of thought. You can keep lists organized in your head. ADDers can't. So encourage him to leave himself notes wherever/whenever necessary. Your house will look funny, but it will help. Get him a smartphone. My husband has a zillion alarms. It's the only way he remembers to take medication that he needs for allergies. Even though he takes it every day, if he's out and about when his alarm goes off, he'll be sneezing up a storm a day or two later and, sure enough, he forgot to take the pill.

The other key to making this work, if that's what you want, is to utilize his strengths. It's easy to get bogged down in his weaknesses. They're so apparent and they drive you crazy and you haev to compensate. But his brain working differently than yours can be very helpful. My husband comes up with solutions I'd never think of. Sometimes, there's a reason for that. But sometimes it's just my rigid way of thinking. He's also eager to do whatever I need to have done. I guess that's from the low self-esteem, but the point is that your husband wants to help. He wants to pull his full weight. He just has no idea how.

If you feel overwhelmed by duties, draw up an exact list of what you need him to do. (Don't ask him what he can do. He won't know and then he'll be frustrated and will want to deal with it another time.) Then show it to him. If he agrees to it, ask him which chores he already knows how to do. Which ones he wants you to go over with him. Write down step-by-step instructions. Not minutae, exactly but, for example:

Kitchen:

Do dishes (if necessary, mention dishwasher)

Wipe down counters with this cleaning product (and where it's located if he doesn't know)

Take burner pans off stove, clean stovetop. Then clean out burner pans.

Wipe spatters off the wall by the stove

Sweep up floor.

Swiffer floor.

Eventually, he'll get used to doing it this way and won't need the list. But he needs to know what, exactly, you need from him and how to get started. So hit the keynotes and make sure he knows how to get them accomplished. If he just says yes, press him for details. He'll be so eager to take the weight off your shoulders, he won't admit he needs help.

I know this can seem like yet another child to take care of. But he will learn. And figure it out. And find a medicine that works. (My husband had a TERRIBLE experience with Ritalin as a kid; but he functions very well on Adderall. You might ask the doctor about that. Just because they're both, essentially, speed doesn't mean they won't work.)

Finally, you say that he becomes articulate just when you're about to give up. This makes perfect sense if you understand ADD. The reason speed-like products help ADDers, is that helps them focus. I liken it to simulating the adrenaline rush from "fight or flight." When you're in that mode, everything slows down (integral for an ADDer whose thoughts are careening around recklessly) and you become intensely focused on what's at hand. So when he senses you're about to give up completely, he panics. That causes him to focus in, and suddenly he can verbalize what's going on.

It can be frustrating to feel that you have to change to accomodate him. I get exasperated at times. But then I think about all the ways he's changing to accomodate me. It doesn't undo all the annoyance, but it helps. The thing is, especially perfectionists, people tend to expect that if you aren't "normal" then you should be. Just because ADDers' brains work differently, that's no excuse to demand they think like everyone else. It is, however, acceptable to ask that your spouse be able to function in this society, which does mean some change. But it's change on both your parts. And for as much frustration as you're feeling every time you deal with this stuff, think about what he is dealing with every second of every day. Not just trying to fit in, but being told that how he thinks and acts is wrong and bad. That there's something wrong with him just based on who he is. The author of one book likens it to what left-handed people put up with for years.

That said, you have a lot of anger so empathizing will be hard for awhile. You need to work through that anger and resentment with a professional or, at least, religious counselor. Someone you trust to provide an objective view. I don't mean this in a harsh way, though I don't know that it can be taken any other way, but you seem very, very fond of yourself. I'm sure part of it is the natural contrast between you and your husband. But you spend a lot of time praising yourself. In my experience, people who are truly comfortable with themselves don't phrase it that way. But you may be the exception. I don't know you. There is a chance, though, that you're just not seeing traits that are undesirable. (The main reason I suspect this is that your husband was able to cover his ADD symptoms from you for so long. They're not usually very good at sustained efforts like that.) I tend to get in the mode of "I'm mainly right (also except for my temper - you and I share that) and he's mainly wrong." Then we talk and he points out several things that I'm doing that are pretty infuriating/awful/whatever. I don't even notice them. Just like he doesn't notice some of his ADD habits. Because they're just part of him, and my little quirks are part of me. Once we've talked about it, we can figure out ways for BOTH of us to work on these facts about ourselves.

I'm just saying: He was horribly wrong to hide this stuff from you; you have every right to be angry; his ADD is a HUGE factor in the troubles in your marriage; but just your bad temper can't be the only thing. It just can't. Everyone has myriad problems or quirks or whatever you want to call it. They drive your partner crazy. But your partner loves you, so he puts up with it... and probably doesn't even mention it unless it becomes a huge deal. So, despite your understandable anger and resentment, try to realize how much a marriage is composed of two people and no matter how flawed one person is, the other probably has a pretty good chunk of "quirks" too.

One last thought in this interminable comment: Have you considered that you may have ignored some of the ADD symptoms BECAUSE you're a perfectionist? I see a lot of women in bad relationships, but they stay. I think sometimes they (despite their valid complaints) get comfortable being the better person in comparison. So there is a chance you unconsciously noticed some of these habits and ignored it because a) you loved him and/or b) it really showcased all the problems you don't have.

Again, I honestly don't mean these things harshly. Just throwing a lot of stuff out there to consider, based on years and years of therapy and a LOT of human observation.

just excellent article

Submitted by brendab on Tue, 02/16/2010 - 13:55

Phoenixgirl78,

I rarely see such incredible understanding on the part of a nonADD spouse. I think you have done a wonderful job trying to see both sides of these relationships. I think you have also been very humble and made great effort to express some challenging thoughts to the nonADD partners here on this forum. Your written expression is just very impressive, and I hope that you can find ways to repurpose things you write.

It has given me a great deal to think about in terms of my own weaknesses, and I just wanted to thank you for it. I will be rereading this response many times to improve my communication with ADD.

Brenda

Thanks Brenda

Submitted by phoenixgirl78 on Wed, 02/17/2010 - 12:17

Thanks, I am glad some of my ramblings helped. I definitely fall down on the job at times. (It doesn't help that we're both home all day, every day. For about two years now. That's enough to make any marriage tense.)

I'm just saying, I try to keep this stuff in mind, because I want to be understanding and supportive. But I also am human and have a temper. So it's definitely trial and error. A lot of the stuff I know, I know because we had to try three or five or a zillion other ways before we hit upon the one that worked.

Of course, now that I better understand how ADD works, I'm finding it easier to come up with ideas. The other night, he was out of burger "fixins" -- lettuce, tomato, onion -- and rather than go out and get those when he got hungry, he tried to ignore the hunger rather than go get a burger. Because getting the stuff for the burger just didn't occur to him. So I woke up to find a $6 charge on the account. I pointed out what he could have done. He pointedo ut that he had tried not to spend money. So I remembered to stop my nagging/critical tone (which had crept in) and said Okay, it's done. Maybe next time you can remember this conversation? He said, Honestly? Probably not. You can remind me of conversations, and I'll remember them. But I don't just recall them based on circumstance.

So I took a deep breath so as not to yell or snipe. And then said, Okay, is there some visual way we can use to help you remember? He couldn't think of anything. So I asked more: Did he decide on a burger then use the coupon to save money? Or see the coupon and think he could afford a burger? Since it was the latter, we put a little note up in front of the coupons we keep on the fridge. It says, "Want a burger? Try getting fixins instead, if possible." (I tacked on "if possible" because it seems really abrupt otherwise. Also there will be times where he waits so long to eat that he's about to be physically ill. Then it's not going to be possible for him to run to the store, bring home the lettuce, tomato and cheese, chop them up, cook the burger and assemble a sandwich.)

I guess i'm saying that it's easy to write out how understanding I am. It's harder to be sure it gets practiced consistently. But I'm doing my best. I want to check out the books from Dr Halliwell, but I really enjoyed Thom Hartwell's books on ADD. They helped me understand how my husband thinks (partly from reading, partly from discussing it with him and hearing how it related to him and his thinking patterns) and also to understand the strengths that come from ADD and how to best utiliize them.

Meanwhile, it's just a matter of a LOT of conversation and checking in (which always feels like nagging to me but generally helps him stay on task) and even more coping with my own control-freak nature.

I feel like

Submitted by Clarity on Sat, 02/13/2010 - 21:50

"I'm living a life that wasn't intended for me". I so feel that. There were nights I cried in bed right next to him wondering where's the one who was meant for me... it's romantic and unrealistic really, thoughts better suited for a movie maybe but, I don't feel like this is my true reality, it's been distorted by ADD. It is difficult to feel grounded, settled, assured. The longer I'm in it (almost thirty years now) the more I lose confidence in my own abilities. I wanted a partner, someone to share my life with but I'm just not feeling it, don't know if I ever will... I wish I could wave a magic wand for us all.

I'd be very interested in a study

Submitted by Aspen on Tue, 02/16/2010 - 19:33

conducted on how often a person with AD/HD marries a partner with perfectionistic tendencies. Just from reading on the board, our experience, and that of some of our friends, I would suspect it happens very often. As the OP mentioned, it probably does have something to do with opposites attracting. My ADD husband often mentions that he thinks it is my drive that gets things done in our life, but I know that it's his laid-backness (is that even a word?!!?) that helps us to slow down and smell the roses along the way.

I'm sorry that you didn't know the truth of his ADD before you made the decision to marry. I also didn't, and for much the same reason that you didn't know.....neither of our husbands knew so it wasn't something that they could have told us. It sounds like your husband more deliberately withheld information from you, and I don't blame you for being angry about that. I don't blame you for getting irritated when the decisions you make don't have the proper follow through, or because you don't like the way his family *copes* with ADD behaviors in your husband.......if I blamed you for any of those things I'd be a hypocrite as those same things bother me about my ADD husband & his ADHD family members at times. I have a long rant currently on the board about how to get my ADD husband to see money realistically....he lives in a financial dream world sometimes!

I don't believe however that ADD in itself needs to be a death sentence for a marriage. I think that decision is made based on how each party in the marriage deals with eachother's behaviors---exactly the same in any other marriage. I don't attribute the positives in our marriage to ADD....I married an awesome person who happens to have ADD....and I don't attribute all the negatives to ADD either--he has a wacko family and I have a tendency to be a perfectionist. We're perfectly capable of working up our own negatives aside from the ADD, but it is a factor to be dealt with and I too would love to wave a wand and make it go away. Make my husband have a better memory, make him follow through on what he agrees to, to place the same value on giving his word to do something that I do; but the best we can do is to try to counteract the effect of his ADD to the extent possible in the same way that I struggle against being a perfectionist. He forgives me for my irritating behaviors and I forgive him for his, and we try to help eachother improve as much as possible. Actually in truth he accepts me exactly as I am much better than I do him....I spend a lot of time trying to get him to act as if he doesn't have ADD because that is something we both need more of from him.

We got our diagnosis about 2.5 years ago, and our way of dealing has been: education including a virtual conference which was very helpful, meds (Ritalin which was changed after about a year to Adderall....the dosage of which was just adjusted), a therapist (original one was not great, but current one is awesome), and a coach (original one was dreadful but currently he is doing both online group coaching--great--and a new one on one coach--wonderful). When these things are working together, his ADD doesn't affect us much more than any other negative quality that either of us possess.

But it happens that he occasionally misses appts (especially his online coaching group) and we fall down a bit on our family meetings to make sure everything is being tracked, and then things get out of control fast....and I quickly get to the point of wanting to scream--and honestly sometimes I do.

I don't mourn the life I'd have had if my husband didn't have ADD because I feel I am still living that life. We are meeting the goals we set before we got married and before we got a diagnosis, and we are working toward new ones we've set. We're still moving in the same directions we always planned even if the reality of it doesn't look exactly like the imagined picture I had of it at times. We are cheerleaders for eachother, and when I get good and mad about something ADD that he does, I try to remember the wonderful way he's handled stupid things I've done & how he's been on my side no matter what, and I aspire to be as accepting as he is.

Your marriage can have a good chance if you get the right treatment, but as you posted, it is really only you who can decide if your marriage is worth fighting for and how much effort you want to be put into it. Probably that decision will be based a lot on how much effort he's willing to CONSISTENTLY put into controlling his symptoms.

Liked that line a lot

Submitted by devonshire on Wed, 02/17/2010 - 04:49

<cite>My ADD husband often mentions that he thinks it is my drive that gets things done in our life, but I know that it's his laid-backness (is that even a word?!!?) that helps us to slow down and smell the roses along the way. </cite>

I love that line. It describes our relationship exactly.

As an aside, I find it really encouraging to find women who can feel so positive about life with a partner that has ADD. Sometimes I get so frustrated, and seeing other people living up to the challenge feels good. Thanks!

I think you're right

Submitted by phoenixgirl78 on Wed, 02/17/2010 - 12:32

A study would probably show exactly what you are talkign about. I have a lot of drive, and my husband has a lot of determination and stubbornness. It's a good combination (usually). But I also think about when we were dating/engaged and how it probably drew me to him that he was malleable, for lack of a better term. He was willing to align his goals with mine, by and large. He was willing to do what it takes to help me and to help me function. And to keep our relationship working, even when I was freaking out about something entirely unimportant.

I think that he was attracted very much by my drive, and I was attracted to his work ethic and staunch, unwavering support. Of course, there was more at play than that. We can make each other laugh, we are each the person that the other wants to share news with first... But I am betting that one of the components of our attraction was the sheer differences between us.

Like you and your husband, I keep him motivated; he helps remind me to stop and enjoy life and not always live for the future. I think it can be a healthy combination, so long as we recognize the dynamics that make it up. And stay on task policing our bad habits, as well as theirs. I tend to get so caught up in helping him or just being annoyed by some tendency, I forget to watch out myself for taking on too much responsibility (because, of course, I'm the only one who can do things correctly... riiight) and then I get mad at him because I'm so overburdened with responsibilities.

It's one of the many traits in me that he routinely puts up with. Because he loves me. So, sometimes, it's good for me to check my temper and realize just how many things he's not yelling at me about, even when I'm picking on little things.

Just wanted to quickly add...

Submitted by Aspen on Tue, 02/16/2010 - 19:37

you stated that you want, " I envisioned a marriage of thoughtfulness, intimacy, friendship, humor, romance, and physical, emotional and mental challenges (the good kind of course). "

While it isn't perfect, I can say that I do have a marriage of all of those things...sometimes not demonstrated in the exact way I would picture or even choose, but most of the time I could not imagine it better than it is.

There is definitely hope, but it will be bookended with frustrations at times.....just like all marriage. Whenever I get thinking that *this man is impossible* I have a gripe session with my girlfriends or go to a marriage message board or read threads here, and I know that a lot is man/woman differences as much as ADD ones. No marriage will be perfect. I figure I would just concentrate on making mine as perfect as possible....our relationship is absolutely worth it.

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