I asked my H if he would help me with a volunteer project and he refused. I reminded him that I would regularly help him with the children's chess club at our parish school that he used to volunteer at.
H responded with a total lie (which he TRULY believed!!!). He said that I had gone to the school principal's office and had volunteered HIM for the job. I knew that that wasn't true AT ALL, but at the moment, I couldn't remember how H had gotten involved. (It wasn't my thing, so my own memory about that wouldn't be fresh.)
Anyway....I certain knew that I had NOT gone to the principal's office and I had not volunteered him. No way would I have done that. I had no history of doing things like that anyway. NONE...no history AT ALL.
H argued and INSISTED that I had done this behind his back. He began raging at me about it. I just insisted that I hadn't done it, but H wouldn't believe me.
For a few days, I racked my brain TRYING to remember the events surrounding his early involvement with that Chess club. I finally asked our kids if they remembered. They did. They reminded me that one Sunday, we had read in the Church bulletin that the parish school had a Chess Club that met on Wednesday afternoons. And since H loves chess, he immediately said that he was going to start bringing our kids to that group (H had flex time at work that would allow him to go). Then after they had been going for a couple of months, the director of the club told my H that the director was moving out of state, so he asked my H to take over the group, which my H agreed to doing. Periodically, my H would have to go on business trips that would conflict, and I would "pitch in" and take over in his absence.
Oh my....as soon as our kids reminded me of what really happened, I was in shock. Of course what the kids said was completely true, but H had created a story out of NOTHING blaming me for "volunteering him" when I had not been involved in that aspect at all. I wasn't even present when that director asked my H to take over.
Of course I confronted my H with the truth, and of course he then remembered (he could hardly deny it since our kids totally remembered it), but he did not apologize for his false accusations or his raging that followed.
My question is....was this a case of "now" and "not now" ? At the time, (now) he wasn't remembering how he became the director, so his mind somehow created a story that would "fit"????
Good Question
Submitted by Lynnw on
My ADD ex would do that, too. Him rewriting history was a real sore point with me. In the past, he'd tell me things like we couldn't get a car because car insurance was too expensive, so I had to lug 2 small children, groceries, etc. on the bus for 2 years. When years later I asked him about it, he said no, car insurance wasn't that expensive and he didn't remember leaving me without a car at all. His comment was something like "well, if you say so, I guess it happened", with a doubtful tone like he really didn't believe me (like I could forget hauling 2 kids around on the bus for 2 years??). I wonder if they forget things like that because if they remembered all the things they've put us through over the years, they might feel bad about it. It's enough to make you tear your hair out.
Busy minds racing around at one million miles per hour
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
OverwhelmedWife,
I think how ever you want to describe the scenario, what I can respond to is my own experience with these type of communication glitches.
My spouse - in my honest opinion - does not lie. To me a lie is a purposeful deliberate attempt to deceive.
What I have dealt with - a lot - is that my spouse works a whole lot of things out in his thinking - he sorts, and discusses, and comes up with options all inside his conscious thinking. The problem being, he comes to a conclusion, and sometimes forgets to verbalize it to people who need that specific information. In his thinking, he really believes he has shared the information - and it did lead to some pretty heated arguments.
I just had to let go of my end. "You never said that." "Yes, I did." "I'm telling you, you did not." "Yes I did, you just didn't listen." Or you forgot. Or you weren't paying attention. Blech. Never got us anywhere but deep into a grudge match.
Still do not know to this day if it his responsibility to acknowledge that he did not communicate something out loud. I DO KNOW that his inability to trust that we are not "out to get him" or "out to make him the bad guy" causes frustration on my end.
So, I just drop it.
Liz
Also about not verbalizing!
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Liz - that used to happen so much at our house it became a running joke. When my husband would be telling me something and leave an important link in the logic out (because he had thought of it, and had therefore thought he had said it out loud, but hadn't) I would just say something like "Hold on there! I think you left a step of the logic out...can you back up a bit?" At first he was upset about this, but once it became a joke (because we had talked about it) then he would laugh and provide the info I was looking for.
Yes!!!! Also....pronoun antecedents!!!!!!!!!!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
My H will be talking about one male person and say "he (blah blah blah)......", but then his mind will "switch gears" and he'll be thinking about some other issue and then he'll say, "He..(blah blah blah)......." BUT THIS WILL BE ABOUT ANOTHER MALE.
I will be trying to follow along , and then get confused or say something that doesn't "fit" because I'll think that he's still talking about Male #1....and then he'll get mad and say that I wasn't paying attention. But then I'll point out...."hey I need a pronoun antecedent here and there ....you can't just speak in pronouns!!!".
My H also doesn't realize when he's told ANOTHER person something, but not me. When I say, "you never told me that," he'll insist that he did.....but the subject will so serious (someone died or something else MAJOR) that no way would I have "forgotten."!!!
Just like someone mentioned upthread, my H will not "remember" doing something that inconvenienced me a LOT (like the mom above that had to take the bus with little ones in tow). Now, instead of saying what her H says, my H will vehemently deny it unless there was a witness to verify.
This is about 'The Illusion of Memory' and about memory
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Your question is a good one, and a common one. This sort of 'mis-remembering' (and being COMPLETELY CERTAIN) that you remember it correctly and that your partner is wrong is very, very common. It has to do with how our brains work, specifically in two different ways.
First, many people with ADHD have more difficulty with short-term memory (and also moving information from short to long-term memory) than those who don't have ADHD. Sometimes it is a lack of attention to the details at the outset (incomplete understanding) and sometimes (as it sounds in this particular case) the move from short-term memory to long-term memory storage and then recall is not made firmly and completely, nor well. You husband 'recalled' some basic facts - he was doing this volunteering, but 'filled in' some blanks that his recalling from long-term memory left out - specifically how he originally started doing it. His mind created a reasonable story (nature abhors a vacuum and all that!) and that story 'felt' very real to him. He didn't lie, he just didn't remember accurately. And, when he was reminded of enough details that he did remember it (after your kids filled in the blanks he had) I can guarantee you he was way too embarrassed to apologize. In fact, he probably felt pretty humiliated that he was that far off target.
There is another reason people don't remember accurately. This is called 'the illusion of memory.' We think we remember far better than we do - and many of us 'screen' things out of a scene in order to focus on what's important...and in so doing, miss part of what's going on. Two researchers (Chabris and Simons) did a famous experiment about it which they wrote about in their book The Invisible Gorilla (you can see a quick video about it here). The bottom line is that while we tend to think we remember things in the way that a video 'records' information, in fact no one can trust their memory to be completely accurate. In fact, sometimes you can't trust it to be even somewhat accurate...even if it feels accurate. (One of the funny parts of the Simons book is the number of people who insist that the video they saw after they were told about the gorilla must have been a fake, or fixed, or...)
What you got into is what I call a "he said/she said fight." You were arguing about the accuracy of one person's memory. In this case your kids could provide the information that you needed to resolve the question. But more typically that isn't the case - it's just your word against his word. My advice in these situations is ALWAYS to walk away from the argument and say "It doesn't matter what happened in the past or whose version is 'right.' What matters is where we are today, and what we are going to do about it."
In the future, I suggest that you both simply say "that's a he said/she said argument. Let's figure out what's going on right now and deal with that, instead." You'll find it leads to fewer hard feelings, I think.
Filling in the blanks.
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<<
You husband 'recalled' some basic facts - he was doing this volunteering, but 'filled in' some blanks that his recalling from long-term memory left out - specifically how he originally started doing it. His mind created a reasonable story (nature abhors a vacuum and all that!) and that story 'felt' very real to him. He didn't lie, he just didn't remember accurately. And, when he was reminded of enough details that he did remember it (after your kids filled in the blanks he had) I can guarantee you he was way too embarrassed to apologize. In fact, he probably felt pretty humiliated that he was that far off target.
<<<<<
Oh, I agree! And that's kind of what I told him. I said, "you didn't remember exactly what happened, so you "made up" a story that "fit".
The problem with that is that when I told him that wasn't true, he didn't stop and say to himself...."ok, my fill-in-the-blank attempt didn't work, so there must be something I'm not remembering"....and then be open to finding out what that was. But...no.....H RAGED.....and yes, he likely was too embarrassed to back-pedal and say he was sorry.....because that means accepting responsibility for the big fight that ensued.
One other thing that I also pointed out to him is that WHEN his mind doesn't remember all the details, and he "fills in the blanks" to something that "sounds right" to him, his creation always puts me in a bad light!!! In this case, I supposedly volunteered his services without approval.
In another case, a big credit card bill will come in and he'll assume that I over-spent (he won't even look a t the line items, he'll just look at the big total.. He won't stop and look to see if there was a big expense charged which was not mine. For instance, one month he had a big car repair bill....another month he had to buy a pricey plane ticket to visit his mom. When those bills came, the totals were high. He didn't look at the line items....no.....he just yelled at me about the totals.
So, again, he just jumps to conclusions....and the conclusion is always tainted in a way that I look bad.
<<<
In the future, I suggest that you both simply say "that's a he said/she said argument. Let's figure out what's going on right now and deal with that, instead." You'll find it leads to fewer hard feelings, I think.
>>>>
I agree! Good advice.
But what do I do when he's falsely accused me of something horrible that isn't true. H has very realistic dreams and I think he "remembers" some of his dreams as being real. H once told him mom (after the dad died), that I had said that H's dad must have "beat up" his mother. And, he said that I said that his dad died from alcoholism. I never said anything like that. H's dad never hit his mom....and he RARELY EVER drank....so I never would have said that he was an alcoholic. H's mom was very angry at me....and I never said thsoe things. I think H dreamt these things because he REALLY believed that I said those things.
I told H...."hey, I can say a whole lot of true horrible things about your dad....I don't need to make any up!!!" lol H's dad was a raging jerk, but he never hit women and he rarely ever drank, so I don't need to make up anything about it ....there is enoough horrible things about him that no lies or exaggerations are needed!!! haha
I did tell my mother in law that I never said those things, bu t I know that she didn't believe me since H was so convincing and H doesn't have a rep of "lying".
<<<<
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<<
What you got into is what I call a "he said/she said fight." You were arguing about the accuracy of one person's memory. In this case your kids could provide the information that you needed to resolve the question. But more typically that isn't the case - it's just your word against his word. My advice in these situations is ALWAYS to walk away from the argument and say "It doesn't matter what happened in the past or whose version is 'right.' What matters is where we are today, and what we are going to do about it."
>>>
I agree.
And when we do get into a "he said, she said," and there are facts out there that can LATER prove, I now just say, "there's no point in arguing about XXXX, because tonight when we get home we can easily look up XXXX and find out what the truth is."
When there is no "proof" to be had, then I do try to walk away, but H is a "right fighter, " and his version of the events is always "right" according to him. He'll even tell me that I'm trying to "frustrate him" by walking away or that I must 'know " that he's right because I'm walking away.
Right now, he's harping on a fight that he had with one of our adult children. The fight became physical because H got physical first. However, H has rewritten history and insists that he was totally innocent.
He is DEMANDING that I accept his VERSION as "supportive wife"....and that his version is "true", which it isn't'. He won't even accept the possibility that his version may not be perfect. He insists that I must accept 100% of his version....and his version is extremely flawed.
Did you tell him you would be
Submitted by c ur self on
Did you tell him you would be right there beside him, being a supportive wife, when he went an apologized like real Father would?
lol
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Now, saying that would truly upset him....even tho it's very true. lol
Yep
Submitted by c ur self on
In hind site leave out the real father part....but, the rest said kindly and in love...If we as spouses can't speak a little loving truth to our mates....Well, we probably have some work a counselor could help us with....
With all due respect, Melissa, I find your answer lacking
Submitted by doublej on
Melissa,
What you right makes logical sense. However, it doesn't address the frustration of it happening ALL the time in an ADHD/non-ADHD relationship.
If you can get past that frustration and "agree to disagree" (or he said/she said), there are still some major obstacles to this type of communication. You may fight less, but a lot of these conversations have real, important consequences. He said/she said to pay the mortgage. He said/she said to pick up Johnny after school. I think most non-ADHD spouses start to pick up all the responsibilities because they cannot trust the communication with their spouse. (Who wants to miss or mortgage payment, or, God forbid, abandon their child?) There is also the real emotional consequence of (at least) one spouse feeling like their spouse doesn't "really listen" or understand their needs.
So, I don't think the discussion is about why or how this happens (as interesting as that might be), but how to work with it--or around it. And if that is even possible.
Everyone's situation is different only the involved understand
Submitted by c ur self on
If a child isn't picked up from school or nursery etc...Or if a bill doesn't get paid on time because of ineffective communication and poor short term memory...How does disrespectful talk and blaming correct or change it?
If I can't trust my adult wife in certain situations because of how her mind works, and the effects of how it plays out when dealing w/ children, bills etc...Then like you said, I just pick it up and run with it...
But, there is never a reason for me to belittle or disrespect her. (Making demanding statement's to fix or correct your adult wife or husband is disrespect, and you've effectively shut them down from the start.) In the 7 years I've known her, Painfully, I've become acquainted and very aware of her struggles... As she has my own...So when she forgets or would love to make it my fault when she can't find her stuff, is it better for me to just turn away with no comment, and let her deal with her own issue...Or set her straight about who's problem it is?
My marriage and many of your's will never seem fair...If that is what we are expecting...But, when we start forfeiting expectations that baring a miracle will never be fulfilled...And just deal with and accept the reality of our relationships, then we can do like Melissa said: (This is where we are today, can we move forward? And how?
I know Melissa said it a little different, but, I said can we, because, it takes some semblance of two self aware people who desires the progress...One is just a spectator, but, we can be a wise kind, loving spectator:)
Talking about Two Different Things
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I hear you, but the specific example I was responding to (arguing over who volunteered the husband for a job) is quite different in the implications of walking away than, say, from walking away from a conversation about who will pick up the kids. I wouldn't suggest that. The first is "nice to know" and a conversation about who is right. It's 'unknowable' most of the time (not in this case, because of the kids, but typically there are no kids to weigh in on the argument...) and it is, ultimately, not that important in the overall scheme of life. The second is about logistics - things that must happen correctly so everyone can be safe. In that second case you must absolutely know your partner hears you, remembers what was said, and then follows through as promised.
In that second situation (and others like it) here are some ideas for getting things to run more smoothly.
When you simply "take over" because your partner has not been successful at managing ADHD symptoms you create a short-term solution that diminishes the need for the better long-term solution (having the ADHD partner get more in control) and has TERRIBLE repercussions in that it encourages parent/child dynamics that help destroy your relationship. I know how easy and tempting it is to follow the path of 'just doing it'...and how hard it is to not succumb to this type of thinking, having been there myself. But ultimately it is in your best interests to figure out where the ADHD partner really does need to step up, and make the transition to doing so as painless as possible for you both.
And, to return to your original comment, this isn't about "he said/she said"
I think Melissa's answer may be concerning those with ONLY ADHD
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
The problem is that some/many of us are dealing with partners/spouses who not only have ADHD, but also have personality disorders, anxiety, depression, bipolar, addiction/alcoholism, etc.
Same thing for years...I gave up arguing
Submitted by dedelight4 on
OverwhelmedWife, this scenario played out over and over in our house, and NEVER got resolved. Over 2 DECADES of it, to where I thought I was mentally loosing my mind. After 2 decades of it, I thought I was going CRAZY, because my ADHD husband was SO SURE that he remembered the things "RIGHT", and I didn't remember at all , or remember them WRONG. So, I was ALWAYS BLAMED for being the wrong one. The problem with him "winning" with this, was, that after years of this, he thought less and less of me, thinking I was totally incompotent, and was a numbskull of a wife, when it ACTUALLY was HIM that was NOT verbalizing the things he needed to be saying and remembering the things he SHOULD have been remembering. I got SO TIRED of being accused of things I didn't do, that I just gave up arguing about it, and would say to him......."Okay, you're right, I'm wrong, now what?"....Then I would get another lecture with him saying, "You need to be more responsible, and write things down, and take you need to take what you say SERIOUSLY". He lost so much respect for me, due to his OWN inability to face his problems. It became more than I could handle, and played HAVOC with my self esteem and emotions.
In the long run, I lost respect for him, because I couldn't IMAGINE the person who "says" they love you, putting you in positions where they continually put you down, purposely make you feel like a fool and foolish in front of others, and then laughing in your face about how "stupid" you are. This reinforced his "SUPERIORITY" over me, with his "PhD, and genius IQ, and I had a high school diploma with a few college courses. (no comparison in his eyes)
I don't know if it was part of his NOW or NOT NOW thinking. But, it seriously took a HUGE toll on me, and regardless of how I tried to reason with him and talk about it, he WOULD NOT see my point of view. He was "right" and I was "wrong".....period. end of story.
Hi dede....
Submitted by c ur self on
Your post got me upset, so I had to delete what I originally started typing, it's personal for me. I've experienced a lot the same w/my wife in the past, and it still comes up from time to time. But, now I refuse to address things with her if I see she is looking to cast blame for her own actions...
You husband, my wife, anyone who does this to another person is using them to try and enhance their own fragile self-esteem. Their really to be pitied. What good is a book education when you have no heart?
Good for you for not arguing with him, it's the best way to handle it...It's never disrespectful to walk away from unloving communication....As a matter of fact it show's great love!
Here's the problem I have
Submitted by Strangebird on
Here's the problem I have with this issue: I was telling lies. I would eventually give in and admit saying and doing things I didn't say or do, for the peace, or to keep him from leaving me. Eventually I saw a Dr. because I thought I'd had a stroke (in my 40s or 30s) and it really WAS me, or I was crazy. Finally, I realized that the reason he also called me a liar constantly, was because I was convincing him that I was a liar by admitting things that he KNEW were lies! These were not misperceptions, but him manipulating me, and when I would admit something that he knew to be a lie, he became convinced I was a liar. Of course he's now changed that tactic, and he tells me how I feel, what I want, and what I think, and that's a whole other head game that you can't win or combat. Overall, I'm burnt out, and I'm the one fighting to save this?! REally?!
Save what?
Submitted by c ur self on
From what you have written it sounds like you might be better off without him.
So you just stand by why he tells you how you feel, what you want, and what you think...and you don't walk off laughing?...I sure don't want to be rude, but it sounds like either you are either desperately weak and co-dependant or living in great fear...Either way it's a very unhealthy thing that you're describing. I pray you get a handle of this relationship....
with all due respect, I do
Submitted by Strangebird on
with all due respect, I do live in great fear: fear that I won't be there when my kids go for visitation if we separate and he tells THEM how they feel, think and what they want. And Yes, I struggle with do-dependency and am just starting to get a handle on that, and am trying to educate myself on it but it's a little hard when I'm trying to get him to educate himself on his ADD, force him to counseling and to a Psych appointment for meds, take my 12 year old to counseling to deal with his father's ADD, and run a thriving law practice that supports my family with 5 kids (yeah, I'm desperately weak, I put myself through law school as a single mother with 3 kids and no financial support). And at the end of the day, the one thing I didn't put on my radar, was to act like a total ass and walk away from my childrens' father laughing at him: the way he does me. I thought maybe they get enough really crappy examples of bad parenting from him. If you weren't trying to be rude, I'd hate to be on the recieving end when you really punch out your best efforts!! Thanks, I've had a hard day, hope yours was great
I understand
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
TTT,
Hang in there. You have a lot on your plate. Amazing what an emotional uproar we get ourselves into - before we realize . . . what an amazing emotional uproar we got ourselves into.
So many of our our lives seem to follow a very distinct - yet hard to understand pattern. There are a lot of kind souls here who really do understand the difficult spot you are in.
Liz
Thank you, it seems like I'm
Submitted by Strangebird on
Thank you, it seems like I'm making progress and it turns out the very things that are "good" are turned on me and twisted into ugly accusations and he destroys a happy memory, or a glimmer of hope.
Truth
Submitted by c ur self on
I've been where your at...Her uncaring acts of control, denial and selfish independent spirit caused me to lie a few time, maybe more than a few:(.... just to avoid her wrath and the fight I new would ensue. I had fairly calm emotions most of my life...But, when I married my add wife at 50, I turned into a shaking trembling basket case...But, when I stopped trying to please her, blame her and just focused on who I am...And God's love for me, healing came. I didn't mean to upset you, but, i did mean to speak truth to you...I've been there, and daily still have to know that the first interruption is a reason to walk away from ANY attempts for verbal communication...And to try and never get in a conversation with her concerning what has been said in the past...NO winner's in that...I must live a life of awareness with her add and denial....I use to enjoy talking to her about my day, detail etc....but, with her inability to recall facts, and inability for comprehension, I've found its just better to engage her quietly in other ways...Our sharing time is better spent, reading together or watching a move and holding one another...Talking not so good....
If I come home from work and pick up a snake and it bites me, am I going to continue coming home and picking up the same snake and getting bite over and over again, I did for several years. I thought I had to because of my vows.....But, I still got bite...So, I changed, I can be a faithful husband, and not engage add actions...And live with her with an understanding of what about life overwhelms her ability to be at peace....I feel alone much of the time, but at least there is peace....And that is what I wish for you!
I never admit to his crazy accusations....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
My H accuses me of lying all the time when he's upset. I never admit to things that aren't true. Years ago, I would stay and argue. Now, I do some of the following:
Once he's angry I leave the house. All communication then is done by phone (recorded), text or email so that there is a record. Having a record is a great defense from being accused of lying. H will text me and say that I just said something that I didn't. I will show him the text or email or phone recording showing that I did not.
I love electronic messages and recorded phone calls. They provide proof and egg on his face.
Once when H visited his brother in another state, he was angry and sent me a text that he wasn't ever coming back. He said that he was going to quit his job, not give me any money, and never come back to our state. So, I moved elsewhere and had the household mail forwarded to my new location. Months later, after H did come back, he yelled at me for having forwarded the household mail (bills, etc). So, I said that I had to move because he wasn't giving me any money and I had to forward our bills because he said that he wasn't ever coming back. He called me a liar. Well, voila! I quickly produced the text and he had to eat his words. Shut down his anger that I moved and forwarded the mail to the new location.
Recently, he was angry and I left. I went to spend the night with a friend. He later sentt me text and asked if I stayed at a hotel. I just said, "no"....I didn't say where I slept, I just said, "no". This was all done by text.
Later, he yelled at me and said that I had slept in my car. I quickly showed him that I had only answered "no" to his question.
Being ADHD, once he read "no" on my text, his brain assumed that I stayed in a hotel and that became "his truth". I never said that, but in his crazy mind I did. The text train proved that I was right.
If this all had happened all in person, I would have been told I was lying, not believed, called a liar over and over, etc.
There have also been times when H will declare some "rule" of which I won't respond to (because I think the rule is crazy). Later he'll say, "you promised to follow this rule". If the convo was by text or email, or recorded phone message, I will show him that he declared the rule, but I never agreed to it.
Recently, H sent me an email and asked me a question. I sent him a reply and asked him to acknowledge the reply so that I'd know that he got it. He did. Two days later he insisted that I never answered his question. Voila....there was the email of my response....and since I purposely asked for an acknowledgement of my answer, he couldn't claim "oh, I never got that email".
My H is not very self-aware, but at least these "proofs" have finally gotten thru to him that he is often WRONG. Prior to the existence of these fabulous electronic conveniences, he would persist on thinking that he was always right.
I think in this type of ADHD mind, their brains just assume things....and those assumed thoughts become "real" to them.
I also will send texts and messages to get proof that he's committed to doing certain things (for instance if he says that he's going to take the dog to the vet, I will text him and ask, "are you taking the dog to the vet tomorrow at 9 am? Then, he'll text back , "yes". So then later on he can't claim that I never told him when the vet appt was, or that he never said he'd do it, or whatever.
He's very careful not to
Submitted by Strangebird on
He's very careful not to leave a "paper trail", I'm a lawyer and he knows I'll use it against him. He's verbal. I'm going to take a 48 hour hiatus this weekend and think, my kids can't grow up like this. My son told me last night that he hates getting off the bus and seeing us both home, he goes upstairs and goes to bed. And it's true. He's 12, and he goes upstairs, goes to bed and goes to sleep and won't get up. I don't think what I want matters at this point.
Good idea!
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
Good idea getting away!
Your son, I'm sure that you realize, is depressed. He needs help and you need out. Obviously, he won't do well with homework/studies if he's going to bed right after coming home to escape the two of you.
Might be Depression...
Submitted by jenna-ADD on
I did that ALL the time when I was a kid because of my mother. You just never know if you were gonna meet Jeckyl or Hyde, so if I went straight to bed, at least she wouldn't bother me. (Of course then the "You're so lazy and useless, etc" bits started.)
I learned later that it was depression and my way of dealing with it, and even to this day, when I'm depressed, I'll come home and go straight to bed... and sometimes stay there the whole weekend until I have to get up for work Monday morning.
Great Topic!! Back for a "Hit and Run" Response
Submitted by kellyj on
Just a quick response to the things I read here in this post. In my absence, I discovered I had been living with a chronic double ear and respiratory tract infection that finally culminated with me going in to the Doctor who made this discovery. For the past 9 months or more, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me yet it was so subtle that I wasn't getting that I was actually sick??? Anyway...now after a couple of months and some antibiotics I feel like my old self again and have watched myself improve on all levels of my life including with my wife and how we've been getting along ie: me getting more things done, having more energy, wanting to have sex more often, managing my ADHD better and yes......my memory!
To start...I too have been in relationships with various people in my life who appear to have a chronic specialty in rewriting history, making things up as they go, changing facts to fit the situation and not remembering events or moments either at all...or differently than I do.....and I won't for a minute say that I haven't done my own version of these things from time to time however....not as a consistent chronic pattern aside from a fair amount of rationalizing along the way. I'm working hard not to do this as much as possible now and try to listen to myself to make sure this is not the case anymore...hopefully! Self awareness is the only way I've found to to not do this and it does take a fair amount of effort to stay on top of it.
My own own conclusion to some of the things said in this post are as follows ( about myself and my observations of others..my wife included)
1. I'll have to concur with Melissa about the short term memory especially the part about incomplete thought processes getting moved to long term memory or not at all. I can tell you why I think this is for me. Many times it has to do with being flooded with too much info ( the bombarding or unfiltered thoughts and ideas all at once and simply not being able to sort through them in the moment or fast enough sometimes ) or....I'm in hyper-focus mode and pretty much filter everything BUT the thing I'm focused on. I've now come to see this very clearly in myself despite that I can remember details, facts, dates, events, lock combinations, phone numbers, directions and street names, song lyrics and test answers especially when I see it (visually) with almost scary accuracy but this is selective. Most of the time, I fit the norm it seems and am subject to everything that Melissa mentioned about memory pretty much to a T. The problem that I have run into is people either see the poor short term memory or the incredible long term part separately and then assume I have one or the other instead of both. This contradiction I can see can be confusing from the outside (and for me too) but yet.....both are true? I now see this within myself and why I think this is as I said in part.
2. Yes!! I think part of these behaviors or traits have less to do with ADHD and more to do with something else including personality/character disorders. I say this because the ones that I am most familiar with...rewriting history, making things up as you go and changing facts and memory of them to fit the situation ( memory de jour) is not something that I have struggled with ( I have other issues trust me ) but have lived with some folks who have and it appears to be part of the fore mentioned possible causes and not so much ADHD or at least from my perspective.
3. I will be trying to follow along , and then get confused or say something that doesn't "fit" because I'll think that he's still talking about Male #1....and then he'll get mad and say that I wasn't paying attention. But then I'll point out...."hey I need a pronoun antecedent here and there ....you can't just speak in pronouns!!!".
LOL!! I believe this is part of ADHD...too many unfiltered thoughts coming in at once, shifting ideas or topics mid-sentence or leaving out some important ( pertinent info ) out of the conversation like....who the hell are you talking about? lol
My advise...ask lot of questions! I know I do this and don't take offense when I'm called on it. It's a tough one to always be watching for so I know I do it and accept it when it's brought to my attention. There are worse things right? lol ( I love this by the way.............."hey I need a pronoun antecedent!!!!" I'm going o remember this ha ha)
4. As far as the other aberrations of memory are concerned....I have made these observations about myself and others.
If someone is in denial or unable to see themselves as others do...you have a few options: try and bring it too their attention. The caveate is exactly WHAT to bring to their attention?? This requires figuring out the cause or source not the symptom I think. Repeatedly pointing out the symptom gets you no where most of the time and only makes the other person frustrated and or irritated.
But ..if you can see the source and they refuse to look at it ( denial )....that's a problem in itself and I don't have any answers specifically. If they can't see it but are not necessarily in denial.....that will take patience, tact, time and repeated effort on you're part in order for them to see it too. If you can't give these things yourself then you're half the problem...my personal opinion for what it's worth.
I think a lot of these aberrations come from simply not being able to see it because (speaking for myself here)......once I do and get over the embarrassment of it.....some of these things that are being brought up here now appear to have lessoned or gone away as long as I stay aware of it a watch for them. With practice....they improve. Funny how that works? ha ha
But this only works for someone who is willing to look and wants to improve. And....as I stated at the beginning about me being sick for example......sometimes there is something else going on that no one is aware of including that person as was with me and my lessoned ability to think clearly and remember things because I was fighting off an infection.
With my wife.....I discovered that I needed to become a mind reader at times....in reality, I needed to intuit better what she wanted or needed despite the words coming out of her mouth to the contrary and then doing that instead. In other words...paying attention more to her behavior and putting into context to what I already know about her and more importantly...second guessing myself first instead of the other way around.
Unfortunately......if you are dealing with some of the other personality issues outside of ADHD..this might make everything I just said a moot point.....I'd say to try and figure out what that is and then see them with a fresh set of eyes instead of tormenting yourself in wanting them NOT to be this way. Like I said......some of these things are ADHD and some of them ARE NOT. It's hard enough for the person who has it to differentiate these things many times but nearly impossible for another person to do it for them I think. The best advise I have ( in reference to my wife and the successes I've had with her) is to speak directly to the problem ( the source ) instead of to the symptom and be as accurate as you can yourself. This means you are exposing them to a degree and no one likes this feeling when this happens however....if you are with a person who retaliates,consistently turns it back onto to you or completely shuts down when you do this, I'd say there is something else going on and it's likely not ADHD or at least to a far lesser degree. This has been my experience for what it's worth. Good luck.
PS Don't assume you know and act on an assumption....that'll only piss the other person off (speaking for myself again) ASK ! And if you still don't understand....ask some more! And don't confuse not understanding with not liking the answer. If you don't like the answer and it's genuine then that could be some denial on you're part. Just say'in.
J
Fear and Insecurity Filters
Submitted by kellyj on
An added thought to what I was saying about finding the source of a person's issues. I have had some really good examples ( not such good experiences unfortunately ) in my life with fear and insecurity...both in myself and with others. I can say in retrospect for myself......it can distort how you think, filter thoughts and therefore...how you see and remember things more than any one source of this phenomenon that I can think of. I can see this in myself and in others much more easily than I used to because I have found my own answers and resolved much of my own fears about my ADHD and how I see myself now compared to the past. I can comfortably take ownership of it without the fear and insecurity that can come with having it. I can also see how much this can manifest itself into insecurity in many forms. The most obvious one is defensiveness. Defensiveness as I have come to see more and more also comes in many forms as well which doesn't always look like insecurity or fear at first glance from the outside. I think this might be a big clue to the source of the things that are being discussed here. If you can see it from this perspective...it can tell you a lot about how to approach someone who is struggling with fear and insecurity. I think this can go doubly for a man since there can be an implied expectation that we are always supposed to be big, strong and in control ( if not specifically from friends and family always but from society at large) ADHD can definitely make a person feel not in control of certain aspects of their lives at times and this in itself can make you feel insecure unless you understand "what" and "why". If you don't know the answers to this yourself.....how can you tell someone else? And without an accurate answer to these things...what other people get is the alternative which is.....defensiveness and/or retreat ( fight or flight).
The source to all of these behaviors is fear and insecurity I believe. Without fear and insecurity filtering your thoughts....it changes everything for the better. If you can see your partner from this perspective....it can help you approach them keeping this in mind regardless of how secure or in control they may appear from the outside. And at the risk of being redundant.......this only works for someone who is able to confront their fears in the first place.....there are those who never can from my own experience. All you will get from them is more fight or more flight which is not good for anyone involved....you or them. Good luck.
J