Our about-to-turn-16 son has decided he wants to be emancipated. He has started looking at apartments and is convinced that he can earn enough money to support himself (including rent) while working part time and going to school. He even told me he thought he could make $50,000 a year. Oh, and the insurance won't be an issue--he doesn't plan to get sick. (Never mind the cost of his current ADHD and anxiety medication!)
This comes in the context of him blaming his failure to clean up after himself and do his chores around the house on us for not raising him right. He wants "real world experience, like balancing a checkbook and writing code." I pointed out that cleaning up after himself at home is real world experience. I also reminded him that I had offered to teach him how to program, but he had not been interested. (He said he "loved" me but did not think I had the "skills" necessary to teach him. For reference, I have shown him programs I have written to demonstrate trigonometry, format colorful signs using photos of Salvadoran wooden letters, encrypt text files based on a user-supplied password or using a photo as an encryption key, and add turtle graphic functions to RFO Basic for Android. I also explained the importance of learning things that apply to all programming languages, like data structures and functions/subroutines.)
The main reason he gives for wanting to be emancipated is that he does not want to live with his sister. I suspect the frequent fights with my wife/his mother are also an important factor. (And add to that a desire to avoid doing any chores!)
My wife had gotten into one of her "everything is so much better" phases and believed that he was doing much better with school work--until an English teacher wrote us about missing assignments. Crash.
Also keep in mind that he has slept in several times so far this school year, earning himself detention for being late and even missing one complete day of school because he did not wake up until it was almost time for school to let out. Yet he somehow thinks he can manage on his own.
I also explained to him that emancipation is usually used by estranged parents who do not want to continue paying child support.
Oh, and I told him about all the times my sister swore up and down that she was leaving our parents' house the second she turned 18. She was still living there in her 30s!
Last week, we finally met with a specialist to address our daughter's bathroom issues and her OCD symptoms. Unfortunately, the therapist does not think she will be able to do anything because it sounds like our daughter will not cooperate. Exposure and Response Prevention therapy, the gold standard for OCD, requires a great deal of willingness and effort. She is going to try meeting with her one time to see if there is anything she can do.
I'm sorry you're dealing with
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I'm sorry you're dealing with these challenges. I have no suggestions, only sympathy.
That’s really tough. Doesn’t
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
That’s really tough. Doesn’t he have to convince a judge that he needs to be emancipated? Maybe he needs to think through that process, step by step. I would think that would be quite a lengthy process.
My son is 18. He wants to come and go freely, with no curfew. I’ve explained to him that with complete independence comes complete responsibility. We’re trying to work with him on gradually becoming more independent while taking on more responsibility.
Im sorry I don’t have any advice
Judge
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
Yes, he would need to convince the court that he can support himself and lives outside of our home. So far, the judge would have a hard time not dying of laughter.
You have my sympathies as
Submitted by dvance on
You have my sympathies as well. My 19 YO went through a stage like this--I knew nothing, everything was my fault (never his dad), he knew everything best. Example: when he was applying to college he only asked his father for help with applications, reading essays, etc. That sounds okay until you know that his father didn't go to college, in fact barely made it out of high school, is an unmedicated ADHD person himself and looses every job he has ever had after three years. I not only went to college on a full academic scholarship, I went to grad school AND have gone to Harvard and Northwestern since for post-graduate classes AND I am currently the Assistant Principal of a private elementary school. Which of us do you think would be more suited to helping sort out higher education?? But no, the child told me "it was so long ago, you won't know anything". The fact that his father didn't go AT ALL I guess didn't factor in. So fine, I was not involved in any of his college apps. Honestly, I would let your son play this out. There is no way on Gods green earth any landlord or management company will rent to him-he won't be able to produce the deposit or show stable enough proof of employment to secure a lease. Let him go look, heck, let him fill out applications-see how far that gets him. Ditto the emancipation process--let him pursue it. I would wager the amount of paperwork and documentation and possibly a waiting period (I have no idea, just a guess) will get the better of him and he won't be able to follow through and it will fizzle out. Nine out of the ten things that come out of my 19 year olds mouth never come to fruition. Currently my 19 year old makes his car payment ($200 a month directly to the bank) and pays me a portion of his car insurance each month ($160). I do not give him gas money and I will not cover either of those bills. He took a year off after high school and worked and is now taking classes at community college and working. He has a curfew that he occasionally mouths off about and I repeat the same thing each time: you have three options: 1) enjoy the hospitality at this house that we are no longer legally obligated to provide for you and suck up the curfew, 2) pay your portion of the rent each month which would be $700 and come and go as you please or 3) move out and pay your own rent AND all other expenses. Your choice. The whining about the curfew stops pretty quickly. He does think he may move out next summer with some friends--like your son. No way in hell my guy can pay rent. Money flows through his fingers like water. He barely pays his car payment and insurance with just enough left for gas. But again--I say nothing except "oh that would be cool!" and move on with my life. It's never going to happen.
What has worked for me when my son has gone through those phases like your son is to not engage, not argue, in fact say very little. I would remind him the rules and expectations of the house that he DOES NOT pay for and remind him he is free to make his own choices--if he wishes to continue to live there, he will have to abide by your rules (whatever you decide those are) and if he does not wish to abide by those rules, he may absolutely pursue emancipation and renting his own place. Also that at age almost-16 the time to blame others for not being able to clean up after yourself has long passed--pretty sure a person his age can figure out how to pick up stuff. It is SUPER hard to listen to such ridiculous stuff that is never going to happen, I know. One of your rules can absolutely be he may not blame you or his mom for his choices or his lack of cleaning up after himself (however you want to phrase it). My DS used to speak to me terribly and that was one of my rules-if you can't speak to me nicely in the house THAT I PAY FOR then don't live here. Keeping the emotion out of it and keeping it very business like has helped. He used to get all bent out of shape--"oh, you just control everything don't you" or "you think because you pay for everything you get to control everything". Um...yep...I kind of do. The person who pays the rent and all the other bills to make the household function kinda gets to call the shots, yes.
Question about your daughter: if she lives with you, why is she not required to get her conditions under control? How old is she? Does she work or go to school? If you wrote about that in some other post I haven't seen it-sorry.
Look--I am not trying to sound like a big b**ch mother, but geez--there is no way our kids could make it 24 hours on their own. They talk a big game but there is nothing there. Don't get sucked into their craziness. We are the adults, we get to call the shots. Period. It's not as hard as you think. No yelling, no threats, no ultimatums. Calm conversation. Put it in writing if you think that will help. You are in charge, not him.
Sending parenting hugs...
Our daughter
Submitted by bowlofpetunias on
She just turned 10. We are trying to get all of her issues addressed, but there are so many and she just does not listen. Neither kid responds to rewards and consequences, and my ADHD wife can not stick to the parenting advice we have been given many times (don't yell, say it one time and use as few words as possible, etc.) She is also very inconsistent with the kids, escalating to punishments that she can't follow through on and not consistently following through on the punishments that can be enforced. (She tells our son no video games for the rest of the day or weekend. She is away most of the day, and our son pesters me constantly. No, No, No. She comes home and without asking me tells him he can play video games. I look like a complete idiot.)
Both kids have been diagnosed ADHD and are on medication for it.
Our daughter has a lot of OCD related issues, such as "just right" food issues, limited diet, fear of using toilet seats used by other people, and fear of suffocating if the car window is closed. She is terrified of statues and animatronics. We have also been told that she is probably on the autistic spectrum. She has tics and sometimes shifts into using accents--and will then give long monologues about how she can't stop speaking that way. She will "sing" random words in a way that is really, really, annoying. She has personal space issues--at a party on Saturday, she put her hands around all of the adults waists despite repeated orders not to. She takes things from my wife, her teacher, and classmates. She has destroyed property, including cutting my wife's clothes and spray painting he grandmother's house and back yard. If only we had some idea of how to get her to respond.
bowl, I hear you
Submitted by jennalemone on
Oh my, you have more than your fair share of challenges. You shall be a saint by the time your kids are grown. Keep the courage and muster your own life. I hope you don't let your OWN life drown in the ocean of difficulties you are surrounded with. If I regret anything, I regret that I did not honor my own life and step away from my worrying and responsibilities of family so much that THEY got the rewards of my work and I lost my SELF. I am working on getting it back but realizing at the end that WHO and WHAT YOU ARE is the quality that you are loved and respected for...not how much work you did for them. Years and years from now, they will have wanted you to be a whole person, not a handmaid servant to them. Even tho it may seem today that you need to "do for" them, they do better "doing for" themselves. Do something every day for YOU.Be well.
Holy wow you have a full
Submitted by dvance on
Holy wow you have a full plate. I did not realize your daughter was so young. I am so sorry you have such a tough road with her. My younger son is an Asperger's guy and he has been a PROJECT in his life. Does she get services at school? The team at my son's public school has saved us--they are amazing. He is graduating from high school in June and has been accepted at two colleges and will go live in a dorm and go to school, something we did not think he would ever do. I tell you this to hopefully give you hope!!!
I hear you with the video games thing--my DH undermines everything I do with our kids too-has for a long time. I am to the point that I tell them point blank in front of him "Dad may allow this, I do not." As for the video games, disconnect the router-done. Or if you need it--change the password and don't tell him what it is. I have done that. I have also called our cell phone provider and taken everything off of DS's cell phone except calling and texting when he has been obnoxious. One phone call by me and he cannot undo that without your password which he won't know.
Are you getting some outside support? You have so much to manage, I wish you had a kind listening ear for yourself! There are support groups for parents of OCD kids and kids with other issues too. You may find some help from parents who are living similar things. Just a thought.
Sending fortitude and parenting hugs!
Amen dvance!
Submitted by jennalemone on
Some kids, maybe all kids, give us worry in their teen years. Since mine have gone through this and are past it, I can say that i worried about all kinds of scenerios that MIGHT happen....all kinds of thoughts about what they might turn out like. NONE of those things happened. Not to say they couldn't but my worrying was the worst thing I could have done. They knew I worried and kept things from me so that I wouldn't worry about them...which increased my worrying. Dvance is SO right about every thing she said. After they are grown up..in their 30s, they actually have homes and sometimes babies and relationships with other grown-ups. It is a transition for us parents to go from mommies of babies and tots, to moms of elementary students to moms of adult children who live on their own eventually. But we must do it and try to do it with as much grace and support and relinquishing of our need to be in control of them. Still, with my 40yr old, I (secretly) want to be his mommy. He DOES NOT WANT me to be his mommy. I had/have to find other purposes to take my thoughts away from worrying about my children's (and my husband's) well being. They may fail. They WILL fail at some things. But just like our own parents when we were young, it is our failures to make..not our parent's.
(Stomping and clapping)
Submitted by barneyarff on
(Stomping and clapping)
BRAVA!!!!!!! I need to print this out. You are right on target!
The Magic Pill
Submitted by Hopeful Heart on
Have you seen this documentary? It’s about eating a diet of strictly meat and vegetables. IIRC In the film, There is a girl with severe autism that has pretty much lived on gold fish her entire life. They switched her to meat and veggies only. She refused to eat anything at all for the first five days. But after that she started devouring the Whole Foods and saw great improvement with her autism. The movie pushes strictly grass fed and organic meat and veggies. I suspect this aspect of the movie might be a bit over the top. But it’s an interesting concept. You might enjoy watching.
The theory may have some validity
Submitted by adhd32 on
Our food is contaminated with chemicals and everything that is grown here is genetically modified. The food I grew up eating is no longer. I stopped buying fruit and tomatoes because they no longer have any flavor. They are now modified to look pretty and last longer. At 55+ years old I developed a food allergy to wheat. I am not celiac and I never had food allergies before. My body sees the GM wheat as an allergen and causes systematic inflammation of epic proportions causing pain and a host of other allergic symptoms. Food has a huge impact on our lives and it is one component that is often overlooked when health problems arise.