Submitted by ADH9er on 02/14/2016.
Anyone out there willing to share their thoughts about the music video ; Broken Together by Casting Crows ? U Tube = Casting Crowns-Broken Together ( Official Music Video ) It seems that TODAY, on this Forum, contemplating relational difficulties is fitting.
ADH9er
thanks adh9er, it's so worth a listen....
Submitted by c ur self on
It seem to me to be about real life commitment; pushing past the pain and just holding on until healing comes...It's about the created getting a peak at it's true self, and realizing it's OK to be broken, because after we take off our mask's we are all broken....
C
Thanks C, for your perspective.
Submitted by ADH9er on
This composition holds core significance to me as I continue to search for the "breakthrough" discovery that can irradiate the seemingly 'Job-ish' suffering in my marriage. Like Job I refuse to 'sell out' & cave in to this worlds beckonings, like abandoning my trust in God, breaking my vows, or throwing in the towel. I do admit finding myself, when in deep heartache, searching for the dividends of having made the sacrifices and rite choices that I accredit to my Christian upbringing. Especially when all of my advancements toward managing my ADHD get little traction,of any significance, with my spouse. This site and Melissa's incite full 'teachings' help me stay engaged and persevering.
I surly admire the articulative prowess of, (I believe you refer to him as the Book-wrighter) J, and only occasionally can I achieve concise-ness in communicating how I feel. Certainly verbally, in stress, is my weakest.
You and J definitely add life and light to this forum. Keep it up!
ADH9er
('Job-ish' suffering in my
Submitted by c ur self on
('Job-ish' suffering in my marriage.) (searching for the dividends)....
I noticed these two statements and thought about my own life and how when my sufferings start its usually because I'm looking for something (expectations) from my wife. Be it approval, affection, or maybe just so some calm interaction and communication....And these aspects of marriage are pleasant and soothing to the human creature that I am....
But here in lies the problem for me...When I lean toward my rights??? entitlement sets in (expectations) and I start looking for the Dividends, and if I'm not receiving what I need from her or think I'm entitled to as her husband, then in sets the deep heartache you mentioned...It's just the cycle of the Human Dilemma...
So far the only thing that has helped me to break it is awareness....being aware that I am only responsible to live my life in a stable, loving and approachable way... Which daily is a full time job.... Awareness that I must accept (whether I agree or not) the reality of my wife's living of life, and never forget the "deep heartache" that comes out of the illusion of thinking I can force anything to be different...Awareness that when my relationship of faith in my Savior (the one who completes me, by his abiding presents) is suffering, then my ability to be at peace regardless of the circumstance's goes out the window....
I do not know if any of this relates to your situation, but, your post was a great reminder to me today of where to place my affections, and where Happiness truly come from...Speaking of happiness the following statement made me smile when I read it, and for me it also holds a great truth about happiness....I borrowed it off of a friends blog...He has adhd and is a Scientist, Professor, and Brother in Christ....
"Life is tough, and it's tougher if you're stupid", attributed to John Wayne, is true. We suffer at our own hands, or at the hands of our expectations. Our pursuit of happiness is pretty much a fool's errand. Not that there aren't some genuinely happy people in the world, but rather that they don't get there by pursuing it!
C
'Entitlement' as it relates to a basic human need Dilemma
Submitted by ADH9er on
C, yes I can relate on those levels.
I began this yesterday in route to an Expo in Indiana, and found myself droning. So I've decided to go with the Short version.
I discovered in attempting to describe my paradigm to you,(yesterday's long version), that the persistent marital bumps that plagued my parents "staying together for the (7) "children's sake" version of a what I witnessed growing up as what "Marriage" looked like, well, other than the 'commitment to the Vows not being 'put asunder till death ',I wasn't given much to go on. For a variety of comprehensible factors (Dad's likely & unheard-of ADHD, with extremely low self esteem and Mom ( taking on the parent role with her siblings) being an adult child of (both) Alcoholic Parents), who followed their 'Churches Decree' until the Dr. said "if you get her pregnant again you might kill her" We all know why #8 didn't come along. Needless to say - plenty of ANGER & FRUSTRATION & SUFFERING & BITTERNESS & ... Inhabited our home.
When I speek of absent 'dividends', I am speaking of my choices and self-work it took to be different (kinder, gentler, more loving,better than I was given example of (*most definitely NOT PERFECT*), giving rise to much the same kind of disconnect from my spouse & loneliness I saw my Dad experience.
My Music Video comment request was posted Valentine's Day evening, after a pleasant (very long time coming), dinner date with my wife, which I prepared for 2 weeks prior, which I had to ask encouragement for from Melissa O. due to my anxiety of rejection. I absolutely did not anticipate that anything even close to intimacy could or would occur. However, a note or a sweet token, would have filled a need that I have.
Human Need.....
Submitted by c ur self on
When I ask myself questions about what you stated here (your parents lives, your life, my life, every living human's lives) I've found it to be a fools errand to answer myself from my mind....Every question deserves to be answered from an eternal perspective. The answer I want will be the correct one for every human living. I know where to find these answers....It sounds like your parents knew also. The dysfunction or circumstances that follow isn't the fault of the choice to take the eternally correct path...The problem is always me, my flesh. Oh wretched man that I am, my flesh is desperately wicked who can know it.
My story like yours is very similar on Valentine's Day....It was a great Day w/ intimacy, even though my wife moved into another room 5 or 6 weeks ago basically because I walked away from Co-dependency. But it's OK and wonderful that day happened, but it would also be wonderful if it didn't, as long as I'm thankful and at peace because I'm on the right path.
I know I need to get up every day, be the responsible thankful adult I was created to be. Which has nothing to do with my wife! Be approachable and kind everyday....and still be wise enough to not fall to attempts of manipulation and every unhealthy fleshly thing that makes the world about me or her....I've got basic human need down to shelter, water, food and a toilet.....
C
I apologize that I was unaware
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
ADH9er,
From my side looking in on Valentines' day, I did not know about your internal dialog. It does not line up with how I feel and what I said. I had a nice day.
1. Remember how frustrated - and even angry you were feeling towards me because you "thought" I was purposely ignoring your e-mail? Truth was I never had gotten your e-mail because you had the wrong e-mail address.
2. It did mean a lot to me that you planned in advance for Valentines' Day.
3. It is true, I did not buy/make you a gift. I would ask you do not read 'rejection' into it - that was not in my heart at all. My focus was to:
What do think about this premise: I feel a lot of pressure when you ask me anything. I am working on answering based on how I want to answer . . . versus telling you what you want to hear.
The word 'no' does not equal rejection. "No" has been an issue in our relationship for a long time. We have not been able to figure that out. I do not know why the word 'no' is so huge?! Wish I did. It goes both ways - it is almost impossible for you to say "no" even when you know it is not something you can fit something into your schedule - and then I feel your anger directed at me when you cannot fulfill the request you had agreed to do. . . . . . . . . .
I will leave it at that. Is this a small enough bite of information?
Very truly,
Liz
Apology Accepted
Submitted by ADH9er on
i had a nice time too.
Thoughts and Feelings ADH9er
Submitted by kellyj on
My first impression left me feeling uneasy and there is a great deal of tension created by the artist who wrote this song. It appeared to be a lament or reflection of the past as it started out...but the singer (or character) did not have a firm idea of the future in his mind as he was reflecting his thoughts.
As I heard the word "dreams" and "Kingdoms" as he referred to several times in connection to the words "shattered" or "broken",I immediately started feeling a resistance to something here thinking t myself..."well, dreams are just a idealized fantasy or construct of our minds and we create them to give us direction and some purpose in our lives....they are by all means when we create them in our heads.....mostly favorable to ourselves in the way we want them to be...a fore shadowing or possible future existence that we imagine ourselves in doing so to serve this purpose.
After all I thought, a dream is personal....you cannot share one with another person....all you can do is relate your dream to someone else and they will interpret it and try and fit that into their dream to help give them some idea of which direction you are going which allows another person to be considerate of you in respect to your dream.
That....and it tells them if that's the direction they want to be going along with you. It does nothing to actually make that happen in reality. Luck, fate and circumstance have little or nothing to do with it."
These are just my thoughts as they were revealed to me. Yet the singer still didn't really seem to know what he wanted and was very unsure of himself in his general tenor of the future and what he was really feeling. He actually sounded very fatalistic with a rather pessimistic outlook on life and I had a very negative reaction to this....almost suicidal in respect to him and this made me feel very uncomfortable for him....that is IF I were him. As it seemed.....deflated, defeated and was on the verge of giving up on himself in every respect and made me want to reach out and lift him up by the hand and go...."hey, wake up...snap out of it...get your shit together boy....it's not nearly as bad as you make it seem." Any hope or any inspiration within the song seemed superficial and disingenuous as he appeared more to me that he was covering up what he was truly feeling within any hope that he might have been expressing.
The character in the song still seemed very focused on his dreams and his loss and disappointment that they weren't coming true and not understanding why he felt this way....that is....the confusion and disillusionment within his disappointment which was done very well in respect to a "lament" in all respects.
The artist in this case....did a very good job of presenting this image and creating these feelings in me. My take here was that the character in this story was questioning whether the two of them could make it together in a desperate sense without the direction his failed or broken dreams had served him in the past..... as if he were standing at a cross roads and deferring to God to give him answers yet....as he said this...it came out in a very conflicted and confusing way. "Only God can change our minds"....in this respect, sounded like a person waiting or wanting someone else to do this for him so he won't have too? It sounded like someone having a conversation with themselves (or self refection) but yet at the same time it sounded like he was actually (or possibly?) having a conversation with his wife both at the same time? That's the impression it left me and how I was hearing it as the lyrics evolved within the song.............. Lamenting, questioning, self doubt and deference to God or anyone who would listen including his wife but still wanting to know what to do or the answers he needed to get there and the future seemed tenuous, strained and conflicted but of course....this was not a communication between two people....it was only his reflecting thoughts.
Overall...my take on it appeared to me as one of a "coming of age" song and yet still not sure of which road to take. The future is uncertain without someone telling him what to do and now he's come to that place that we all do at times when you have to commit to a direction without the assurance from the past that the same thing won't happen again.
He sounded like he was still confusing himself with his dreams and calling himself "broken" and including his wife within that same thinking and calling her broken at the same time? The only thing that appeared broken as he lamented was about HIS disappointment assuming in respect to this....that her "dreams" were the same as his in every respect and taking that and expressing this as "they're" disappointment not just his. We don't really know what she thinks?
His contradiction and conflicted thoughts point directly to the uncertainty about how to continue on without the expectations within his failed attempts to reach his dreams to guide him....and now he's standing at the cross roads trying to decide which way to go but as it appears, without the ability to commit to any direction as long as the uncertainty and disappointment of the past is still holding him hostage.
The two most telling things to me was his preoccupation on the future and it lasting forever. The eternal fire of youth as they say, but the expectations of forever in this world are not only unreasonable they not based in realistic terms as he expressed them and he's jumping ahead of where he is now (standing at the cross road) and more worried about forever as it seemed?
Either in the past tense...or the future.....today didn't seem to be included in lyrics of the song which as I interpret this from an artists perspective....was very intentional on the part of the person who wrote the lyrics of this song. Taking this to the obvious conclusion and need for resolution the artist was leading us to: The character in the song is still standing there and not getting on with the business of living his life that's right in front of him in the here and now..... and is more concerned with the business of dying and applying "forever" as his means to get there. That was the conflicted impression that the artist left me with by the end of the song.
J
My Reaction ADH9er
Submitted by kellyj on
I thought to be fairness to myself and being open with you, I felt compelled to include my true and honest reaction to my thoughts and opinions here and include what came out this for me which is really what happened only moments after I listened to this song. Another song spontaneously sprang out of no where in my mind and I also started spontaneously singing the lyrics to them too. I am being honest here and not making this up, it came out of no where....just so you know.
"Let It Be"
When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
And in my hour of darkness
She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
Let it be, let it be
Let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be
And when the broken-hearted people
Living in the world agree
There will be an answer, let it be
For though they may be parted
There is still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be
Let it be, let it be
Let it be, let it be
Yeah, there will be an answer, let it be
Let it be, let it be
Let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be
And when the night is cloudy
There is still a light that shines on me
Shine on until tomorrow, let it be
I wake up to the sound of music,
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
Thanks J
Submitted by ADH9er on
a whole lot to digest, i'll respond once settled.
adh9er
The song, "Broken Together"
Submitted by jennalemone on
Broken Together -
"Maybe you and I were never meant to be complete
Could we just be broken together
If you can bring your shattered dreams and I'll bring mine
Could healing still be spoken and save us
The only way we'll last forever is broken together"
This seems to be the lovely plate that my ADD spouse is offering me too. If he had proposed with these words, I surely would have said a strong, "NO! I don't want to be broken with you!" I have energy, talent, pride, a lovely family, dignity, friends! Why would I want to sit stuck in muck and broken?" And now, I am stuck in his muck with him and my disappointment. I am not broken! I am fighting and trying to talk about solutions and he is just sitting in the muck and saying, 'Love me for who I am. As I am. I am broken. Love me. YOU are not loving unless you love me as I am.' without any effort on his part. Other than empty promises and turning my words around to his liking.
My fighting and trying for conversation "together" has been frustrating for me because you want me to accept that "we are just 2 broken pitiable people". THAT IS NOT WHO I AM OR WANT TO BE! Why is that enough for him?
it seems to me that as long as my spouse has the upper hand WITH ME he feels all powerful in his little world and that all he needs to do is MANAGE ME and then think of me as pitiable and small. Without me who is he? He is broken and I am his coverup to the world...because I take care of things and care.
My H does not look up when I enter a room but rather, he stares at something in the room like he is VERY interested in it. Like he is VERY attentive and actively studying the coffee pot, philosophically. He wants people to think he is strong and intelligent. But his demeanor is an act and I am the only one who cares or sees that he is just PUFFING himself and that I had been part of the coverup about his real lack of effort and love for me.
You want to be loved as "broken" and share in despair? That seems to be what H wants. Because making something of himself and of our future and our relationship is TOO HARD! He is too smart to care that much or give that much of him self to something outside himself.
One hand clapping feels stupid to me and I have been one hand clapping for most of my life. H has been wallowing in his self pity and pouring it all on me, calling it "togetherness" without saying a word or pulling his weight. It is not "healing together" its is called compromising myself to death.
These are the feelings and thoughts that came up for me when I read the lyrics to "Broken Together".
Video improvement
Submitted by ADH9er on
To anyone who read and/or commented to my music video post, I am compelled, (in hindsight), to make apology, because I now can see that the way I presented it, it could come to some as a 'Baited' question. And it would be better if I myself, commented on it out of the gate. (Surprise-surprise , I came to this without anyone else pointing out to me). I will watch for this sort of thing in the future. Thanks
This (LOVE) song came to my ears while driving home from a visit to a respected married couple (in the family), who I sought out for council in my marital distress. I had come away from that interaction feeling lower than I was beforehand. Once home, I looked up the Music Video. As I wept through repeated viewings, a number of poinient connections resonated.
In order from the strongest they are;
~heavenly intercession required for healing~ At that moment in 'our' discontent, I was as near as I had ever been, to giving up, all that I could do, was rest my insurmountable burden on my God. Still in the throws of intense misery, my resolve to persevere did not extinguish, and I hold tight to a glimmer of Hope of healing I long for.
~my not-so-shiny Armor~ I (like the boy in the video), had been romping through life with lofty, singular ideals, that were no longer, ( and perhaps hadn't really ever been ), producing the outcomes I anticipated, and this was the moment I had to stop and begin to accept my limitations as an imperfect human.
~shared sacrifice~ I slowly began to see that 'we' (she & I),have in common, the 'Lack' of fruition, of things hoped for in our youth, and I must mourn those of mine, that cannot be, and let them go.
~sunset aspirations~ Often I had heard my spouse reference "Sailing off into the Sunset Together". Sadly, my recollection was, most times, around unpleasant circumstances brimming with uncertainty. The image of the boy and the girl running toward the setting sun, side by side, stirs my heart, "It Could Happen". I want it too.
For me, the word ' Broken ' in the context of this song, has a deeper significance than the face value of just being of less or no value, or unable to function as it did when whole. My take on it, for myself is this, I am not without flaw, humans don't exist that way. No matter where I go, I bring everything that makes me - me. I am continually re-making me as I move through this life, and so are all humans. Those 'imperfections' also accompany me, and on different levels, in relationship, come into play. Thus I bring my 'Brokenness to my marriage.'
( I do not condone or make excuse for hurtful actions or mannerisms.)
Jennalemone, I hope this makes more sense as to my thinking on the Music Video
I hope and .want to believe that the answer to the question in the Song - "Can healing still be spoken, and save us?" Is Yes for me in my marriage, and for your husband in his, and all of us here.
ADH9er
~
And???? Sorry For What Again?
Submitted by kellyj on
I don't mean to jump on you here (as Liz pointed out about qualifiers earlier)....but this time I am (with intention....no accident. But straight up.....my intention is not to make you feel bad but in respect to saying what I want to say.....I really have no other choice but to say I really think you are sorry....but sorry for the wrong thing? There is no crime in that. In a very real way here....you don't really have anything to be sorry for or apologize for except not saying why you wanted people to respond to the video in the first place?
In respect to what I said....I don't feel anything to feel sorry about at all. It was exactly what I was feeling as you asked for our thoughts....(penny for your thoughts?) In a sense....don't ask that question if you don't want an honest answer?
And in respect to what Jenna said about picturing herself being offered the same thing relating it too her husband......she's not liking the part she has to play in this and how it makes her feel as well. She doesn't need to feel sorry either but you don't need to apologize either.....not really too her, why should you? You asked?
This is all not about calling you out here at all....but in respect to the effect this had on me like I said.....I was not relating to it the same as you did and it caused me to have a different response to it when I heard it coming from a completely different perspective. As I interpreted it as a "lament"...you could easily call it by another name...."the Blues" in an indirect or alternative form ie: "country blues"....you know "my dog got hit by a diesel truck and my woman ran off with the guy at the Jiffy Lube......" All to say one thing.....human being who are suffering identify with other human beings who are suffering.... and suffering is the quintessential human condition so everyone identifies with these songs depending on your taste or preference. Which is why you identified with it and it meant something to you. No crime or need to apologize for that in respect to what I said and don't feel a burning need to re-explain what I said anymore except to go on and say....I still feel the same as I did when I heard the song but now in turn.....feel compelled to say something similar to wanted to reach out and pull you up from the place you are in.
I'm pointing directly at something here so to make sure you don't miss it again......'who are you feeling indebted to feel sorry for here?" And as Jenna was pointing out a well.....is this what you are offering up to your wife and how do you think you would respond to someone who offered that to you? She can correct me if I am wrong if I misinterpreted what she was saying but I don't think I did?
The only reason to respond to you at all is on your behalf here at all.....otherwise I have no need to jump in and explain myself or anything that I said as a defense. In other words....for your benefit and not to make you feel bad.....but to offer you where I think you should be looking as a means possibly NOT to relate well with your wife. As Jenna was pointing out to you as well.....I didn't get she was angry at you or saying what she said just to make you feel bad but to show you how it feels from the other side as she said. That's a gift not a criticism and you should be thanking her instead of apologizing.
That's why I said sorry for what? Shame feels bad without a doubt....but you can see people shaming many times who are only trying to help if you can only see why they say things too you from only one point of view.....your own that is. If you see everyone as judging you for being human....then that would make most everyone a hypocrite wouldn't it? I think that is less likely the case most of the time. If they aren't ashamed of what they do....but you are running around always feeling ashamed of yourself.....you won't be speaking the same language and it makes it difficult to relate with....know what I mean?
Take care....and don't keep making the mistake of assuming that other people feel the same way as you do. Who's this "we" here.....everyone has their own personal thoughts and feelings including you and they're all different in their own way. No way to no if you don't ask up front but you need to be prepared for the answer you may not want to hear or is different than than the one you want. But still..... No need to apologize for that.....that would be just silly.....everyone does this on occasion to some degree especially when you are feeling down.....just not all the time:)
J
J
Good morning J
Submitted by ADH9er on
I take it "Apology NOT accepted" ! LOL ! I get your point. I accept your interpretation , and anyone else's . I make no apology for apologizing. I actually arrived at my thought to post that sentiment while having a pleasant verbal conversation with Liz around Forum things. She indicated her agreement with my 'form' ' possibly ' coming across that way to some, not all. Perhaps it speaks of an aspect of 'her & my attachment style. I did not have the notion that others would mirror my 'take' nor do I think anyone needs to make apology for theirs. My 'assumption' is (and I don't need reminded what those do), the folks here, including myself, at some point in their relationship (regardless of how much it may suck at the present), found 'Something' (insert Beatles song here), in their partner 'attractive'. And if they, me included, have not yet completely severed that tie, there 'could' be an atom of hope for restoration, call me an 'eternal' optimist, or deluded. I did not perceive shame in any form from anyone's comments or questions. As for a direct answer to"You want me to be loved as 'Broken' and share in despair ?" Unequivocally NOT. The only thing I 'want' for anyone here including me and my BRIDE,is to find what their heart needs to be mended to 'Let the sun shine in' once again.
ADH9er
You Said Some Profound Things Here ADH9er
Submitted by kellyj on
Boiling this all down here for you....what is it that YOU want more? Sympathy or Love? These two things sometimes can get easily confused since showing sympathy out of concern for someone can be seen as a loving or kind thing to do.....but also consider this. Picture someone you hate who just got in an accident and out of the kindness in your heart....you show them your concern and deepest sympathy anyway because you know what that feels like and you want to reciprocate appropriately to them. NOT kicking someone who is down despite the fact that you really do not Love them at all.....is in fact....possibly just the opposite of Love but it is also a natural human response. More like compassion and empathy but not directly Love in the way that a person wants on a one to one basis. And not in the example I just gave either. Feeling sorry and feeling Love do not always go together...just in this one case but not all the time unless a person is injured or sick if you follow me?
But who wants to be around someone who is injured or sick all of the time? No one.....why would anyone sign up for that duty unless it was from being their choice to do it since you can only get so much out of giving from sympathy and that person is not getting any Love in return out of the deal. That's saying even if they signed up for doing this going in.
If you didn't sign up for this duty however...... and you thought you were getting at the very minimum....an exchange in some way for doing this.....then looking at it from even a means of exchange....they not going to be very happy about this deal either and probably be pretty resentful and angry about being led down the garden path? This still isn't Love either but at least it's a fair exchange? Again....sympathy and feeling sorry are getting in the way of real unadulterated Love here which is always a choice and always given freely with no strings attached ( it's unconditional )
However.....that only applies here in a moment when that person fell down and hurt themselves...otherwise....you might really just hate them or not like them much if that weren't the case?
Love or sympathy........which one is it? And which one do you want? And which one does your wife want or rather.....which one does she need? Most of us have no difficulty feeling sorry for ourselves or other people but is that what they really need (or Love?) or is it just another want included along with it sometimes but only when it's appropriate and never when it's not. Especially when it comes unsolicited. That's just an intrusion on the receiving end of it. It also erases any Love that was given on their side of the deal. You don't owe someone back for doing what you should be doing anyway unless you don't think you deserve it?
And in terms of Love seen as a "gift". A gift in that respect does not need to be reciprocated if there are no strings attached. You don't owe anyone who gave you something out of the goodness of their heart.....that is a true act of Love and kindness and they don't expect anything in return. In fact.,...if you feel you owe them or a need to pay them back immediately for giving you Love.....you are not receiving their gift without placing the same strings attached to the gift.
In other words....you aren't accepting their Love and turning that gesture (their Love) into an exchange or means to barter their (your) Love by. That's taking something pure and adulterating it or perverting it into something it didn't start out being. If Love and sympathy are always synonymous always all the time.....then that isn't Love....it's the shadow of it.
I mentioned this earlier to C about archetypes being related to attachment theory so in reference to what you were saying about attachment styles you are right in that respect......in the same vain you were relating to the song which is in essence.....a portrayal a "play" or "drama" (a story being told through an artists interpretation)....in this case....the "play" was a "tragedy" in terms going all the way back to it's origin in Greek story telling (tragedy/comedy) long before Christ ever played this out in real life....the same kind of tragedy in other words and being becoming a martyr in order to do it.
But as I said once a long time ago to C as well.....the main point of Jesus doing what he did and becoming a martyr in doing so....was to die for us (our sins) so we can be grateful and thankful to him for doing so. Why? So we don't have to. We can feel sorry for Jesus but at the same time be thankful to him for his completely unselfish act that required nothing in return with no strings attached to this loving act and gift he gave us. But in the same breath.....this is nothing to aspire to or anything you want for yourself. That's putting strings onto his gift and perverting it to something else.
In other words.....it's an insult to his gift not too him.....he's clean here in every respect. It's the person who insulted his gift by trying to emulate him and becoming a martyr themselves is the only person who needs to be sorry but the only mistake that they made which is completely forgivable is just for confusing love and sympathy and seeing them one in the same. Everyone has done this at some point in time or you aren't being human. It's just really good to know the difference so you don;t make the same mistake and give both at the same time thinking it's just Love. That's what your wife wants more than sympathy. So do you.
J
Not able to comprehend
Submitted by ADH9er on
J, not figuring out how all this comes out of my " I & Me & My " statements that I have been mindful to use since I began here.
Also, I've been under the weather today & eve. I'll read again once I have recovered. Thanks
ADH9er
Unrelated ADHer....Forest vs Trees Here
Submitted by kellyj on
What's the forest? What you want.
What's the tree's? Your true inner feelings and thoughts
What's the dilemma? Relating ... or finding a way (or break through as you said it) to relate with your wife.
The Problem: Trying to do it by not including how you really feel and trying to do it in the way your doing it without know how you really feel. Feelings vs Thoughts. Thoughts are an intelectual process. Feelings are something you own are not a thought process.
Goal: Integrating or putting these two things together and being able to articulate them in a way that others can understand is the goal.
Time line and back story: My Music Video comment request was posted Valentine's Day evening, after a pleasant (very long time coming), dinner date with my wife, which I prepared for 2 weeks prior, which I had to ask encouragement for from Melissa O. due to my anxiety of rejection. I absolutely did not anticipate that anything even close to intimacy could or would occur. However, a note or a sweet token, would have filled a need that I have.
In other words....you spent a great deal of time, effort and thought going into Valentines day (assuming from your statement)...that Melissa encouraged you to do. And though, you had no expectation of becoming intimate (sex or physical intimacy?)....a thought ful word or some kind of acknowledgement or reciprocation on her part was an expectation you had.....but not just an expectation......a need ( reinforced by the word Entiltement )
Succintly....you wanted appreciation for your efforts and the validation this would give you by her doing so? (if I'm not mistaken?)
From this....the song you mentioned and asked us for our input.
Feedback: The song is a sad song and one that seems to represent how you feel (kind of....not clear on how you feel here? Not clear what you are really feeling since the song was written and sung by a completely different person and is not you. Somewhat vague on what feelings to apply to what here (since those feelings have not been made apparent to us? Your feelings.... that is..... not anyone elses other than external examples of these feelings or talking about them through the song but not actually saying what they are to us?
Needs vs Wants
Needs (or entiltment): Air, water, shelter, food. To live....you must have these things and we are all entilted to them to stay alive. No arguing this or explaination needed......we have no other NEEDS as far as "entitlement" what so ever outside of these. Period. End of story.
Wants: Everything else. Wants you have to earn and you have NO entilement too. They are not presumed and need further explaination by telling poeple why you want them and why you feel you need them. Personal feelings, personal preferences, personal expectations all come under this heading and need further explanation in order for other people to understand them. Assumptions cannot be used to determine this?
Since there is no entitlement to the things you want.....it's your responsiblity to others to tell them; what you want, why you want it, and how you want it. And then be able to connect or integrate them together with your true feelings in a way for another person to know how you actually feel (inside) No one can know these things unless YOU tell them and to tell them....you need to know the answers to each one of these things first. Period. End of story.
Without them (your true feelings)....no presumptions, assumptions or even any accurate speculations can be made for another person....but if that's all others have to go...... on without knowing exactly how another person feels about anything.....it is the only way to relate to anyone on a fundamntal common basis and connect with in the way you want. In other words.....relate to them.
More over...."you cannot relate" unless you relate how you are really feeling without using only exmaples or trying to do it through what someone esle has said or using someone elses words, feelings and expressions in order to do this. You cannot use these things to describe how YOU feel.
You have to find your own words and know what it is you are feeling first (and what you want specifically connected to your feelings)....before you can relate this with another person in a way that they will truely understand. (the how) What's underneath the words on the surface is what everyone wants to know and why you feel the way you do.
Becoming vulnerable requires the courage to face your fears. Fear of rejection ( and the pain you experience when this happens) is what prevents you from doing this and preventing you from becomeing vulnerable. If you can't get past these two obstacles first......you won't be able to tell anyone how you feel.
That pain you feel when you feel rejection? That you need to learn to live with. It will happen and you have to experience it and move past it. This will not every completely go away. It is caused by shame and shame is something that everyone has. If you can't feel shame and you avoid it at all costs.....you will never get the experience necessary to move past it and expose how you really feel to your wife.
Shame and pain are synonimous here..... vulnerability, true inner feelings are what you need to relate. The fear of rejection and feeling this pain is preventing you from doing this and why your can't relate with your wife.
Break Through you are looking for: There's the door my friend, right in front of your face.....there are no two ways through it. Either you walk through it and feel the pain....or you don't....but trying to do this or get there another way will not work.
Trust me on that much......you can't get there from here:) I'd keep that one in your back pocket and use it as a reminder...only to add here....you really have nothing to be ashamed of other than trying to do it the way you are doing but only after you come to this realization yourself and understand why this is true. If you don't understand this as a concept or can comprehend it.....you need to stay on this until you do. You can't un-ring the bell as they say.
I hope that helps narrow it down for you better? None of this is easy and you don't need to explain this too me but......you do need to have some courage and faith in order to get you there.....faith and courage in yourself that is....not anyone else. They can't give you that either:)
Recapping here for you:
Etitlements are presumed necessary for survival and are a given and everyone understands them.
Wants are personal....and only personal to YOU. No one is going to understand your wants (and the expectations that you have to go with them) unless you know how you feel and put them into your own words so you can realte them to another person.
Becoming vulnerable means you might be rejected. This is true. If you can't be vulnerable enough to allow the possibility of being rejected....you are not going to be able to exress you true feelings about anything to another person and they will not be able to relate to you. Period. End of story.
Remaining Questions???
Not clear why you started out wanting to know our feelings about the song but....one might conclude since you haven't actually said anything to how you are really truely feeling inside....you were trying to use "These examples of things" (external or outside objects) like the song you included and started with. As it appears now (after the fact going back) that you were trying to express how you felt on the inside....by using the song to represent this to us?
The trees here....are your feelings. The forest is what you want. Logic is what ties these two together so other people can understand. Expressing it in your own words is the "how to" part. I hope that all makes sense?
Hint: based on my last comment. Without knowing how you actually feel since these questions still remain unanswered by you....how I interpreted you was seemingly..... mixing or confusing sympathy and love together? That's how it comes accross ( by only the impression it gave me. You didn't actually say this....it is only a speculation and assumption made with what little I have to work with so far? This is why the confusion and conflict on my part in trying to determine how you really feel here?
If you could help unravel this for me and figure out why that is and then comment back to me with how you really feel.....that would help resove this mystery I have in trying to relate to you and understand you as it currently sits?
J