I'm brand new to the forum. I'm 35, married for 4 years, one child.
It was actually my husband who found this resource through the New York Times wellness blog. I am the partner with ADHD. I'm glad the topic "Women with ADHD" is here, because it seems that most of the other posts are about husbands with ADHD, and let's face it, in this society husbands already do less than their fair share, so those poor wives are getting a double whammy and are understandably frustrated. (The level of their hate and vitriol is still a little shocking to me, however.)
Not that my husband isn't angry with me - he is, on a regular basis. But after another ridiculous fight this morning, I think we both realized that it can't go on like this. We independently started seeking information. He looked up advice on how to deal with an ADHD spouse, and I looked up how to deal with a verbally abusive spouse. I think our marriage has both of these problems, and they feed off of each other. I believe that even if I didn't have problems with attention and memory, we would still have marital strife because of the way he views the world (everyone is against me, everyone else gets special treatment and I have to suffer, etc.) and also because of my inability to trust and be open.
I have trouble forming close relationships, though I have many casual friends and acquaintances. I believe the ADHD is partly to blame-- more specifically, the anger it seems to cause in the people close to me. I was a constant source of disappointment to my parents. They did not have an easy life (still don't). My brother is developmentally disabled, so of course most of my parents' attention had to center on taking care of him and making sure he was getting good care and proper treatment from his teachers and therapists. I tried to help them as much as I could, but I was only a child and couldn't understand everything.
I was a smart kid. I'm sure it seemed to my parents that life was grossly unfair. Here one child was given so many gifts - good health, intelligence - and the other child was given so little. When I didn't use my god-given talents to their full potential, it was like I was slapping them in the face. I was bright and eager to learn, and generally got good grades, but was always "shooting myself in the foot" (my dad's words) by forgetting to do my assignments, daydreaming, and doing other things that prevented me from achieving the greatest heights. My mom, who to this day is a constant whirlwind of cleaning and organizing, was at her wits' end when it came to my messiness and absentmindedness. One day she made me sit down and write 100 times "I will remember to turn off the light when I leave the room." After enduring a lecture about how my lack of consideration for others was unacceptable, I already truly felt awful about the electrical costs I was incurring, and the burden to my family. So, what did I do when I was finished writing my penance 100 times? I got up from the table, left the room to go tell my mom, and forgot to turn out the light. I'm surprised I lived to tell the tale.
So, I get it. I know the things I do (or forget to do) are almost comical in their brazen idiocy, and I know they must make people crazy. It's natural to assume that I just don't care about other people. But I do care - I care deeply and I always have. The cumulative effect of all that anger and criticism has made me into a fearful person who feels unable to share myself with anyone. I feel that if they find out what I'm really like, they will hate me. At the same time, I always craved intimacy. I wanted someone to love me no matter what. I wanted someone who could fill the empty hole left when my family rejected me over and over. This led to a lot of bad relationships, because I would get involved with men I didn't really love or who weren't good for me, just because I craved their attention and affection.
In my husband, I've found one of the good guys. I was gradually able to open up to him and let him get to know me. We love each other and we are both so in love with our little boy. But tensions have been rising. We have the typical couple arguments over who's doing the housework, who's taking care of our son, whose turn is it to do xyz. I feel like I have to do everything. So does he. I really, really do work hard and try to remember things by writing notes to myself, etc. This year I started on Adderall because I started to feel like my work and home responsibilities (I work full time and I'm damn good at my job) were getting to be too much for me to keep track of. At work, I cannot afford to forget things, so I work hard to focus and have several levels of fail-safe reminders for everything. It is exhausting but I get it done. At home, I let more things slide. But with a baby, you can't make as many mistakes as you can when it's just you and your husband. I felt like I had an undue burden of the child care responsibilities, so we eventually worked it out so I'm only doing about 2/3 of it.
But my husband gets really stressed out, and when he does, he goes into this anger cycle where he points out everything I fail to do around the house, even if I have worked hard to get better at that particular thing. It's like once I did something wrong, it's forever and can never be remedied. He blames me for things that he himself forgot or misplaced, because it's easy to assume I'm the one who accidentally threw out an important piece of mail or forgot to pay the day care. Until today, I don't think I realized how much my absentmindedness angers him. But he really is angry. He feels that I don't care, that I am not supporting him through a stressful time at his job by making sure things are taken care of. But I think he realizes that he can't do this to himself and to me. And I know I can't live in a climate of fear over the next time he will suddenly lose his head. We are ready to work on this, but it's such a tangled web that it's hard to know which issues to tackle first, or how to proceed.
Thanks for listening, and any advice would be appreciated.
I understand where you are coming from
Submitted by Sueann on
I have a developmentally disabled brother and sister, so I understand how you feel. I never had a mother after they were born. All her energy went to the special needs kids. But I'm "flaky" and "lose things a lot" so I sometimes wonder if I might have a mild case of ADD myself. I certainly have no problems remembering and I've been very successful academically.
It is so hard to do the home stuff. My husband simply doesn't. It is so frustrating. You do the dishes, then you eat dinner and you have to do them again. My husband is like "but I just did them" and I have to say "Did you eat today? Did you cook today?" It is thankless. No one notices if you do it but they sure notice if you don't.
Verbal abuse is awful. My first husband did it, and I preferred it when he hit me, because at least then it was over. Is your husband open to the idea of counseling? 2 working parents is incredibly stressful even without ADD. It might help you learn ways to communicate without arguing.
No real words of wisdom here. I just want you to know other people feel like you.
I must say...
Submitted by Clarity on
Hate is a strong word and I had to look up vitriol. I'd like to clarify that as for me, I've expressed a high level of frustration and hopelessness in my posts here. I try my best to remain balanced and nonjudgemental in my observations on this site. I do not wish or intend to condemn anyone here. Just my personal little disclaimer...
the real you sounds like a wonderful person
Submitted by still trying on
One of the aspects of ADD that makes me the most sad (my partner has it) is that fear that so many ADDers seem to have of people not liking the "real" them. My experience is that ADD symptoms often mask attributes like considerate, thoughtful, caring, which IS the real you.
wow, still trying
Submitted by Clarity on
that is an interesting way to think about it. "Add symptoms often mask attributes like ... which is the real you." The symptoms are behaviors though that don't look considerate, thoughtful, caring... though I believe my husband thinks he manifests those attributes. Does that make sense?
it's the difference between intent and action
Submitted by still trying on
Hi Clarity, I think you get what I'm saying. My partner gets genuinely shocked when I say things like "Hey, I'm not feeling well-cared for lately, I need you to do something for nice for me" to which he'll say "But I think about you all the time! I say nice things about you all the time!" The intent to do well by me is genuine, but ADD gets in the way of acting on those good intentions in a way that is meaningful to me, even though to him, thinking and speaking well of me conveys he cares. I however, am a fairly typical neuro-typical in that actions carry far more weight for me than thought and words.
My husband does the same thing
Submitted by Sueann on
When I try to talk to him that I do not feel loved or cared for, he'll say "I brag about you all the time" meaning that I, with no psychology background, figured out that he has depression and ADD (from the internet). He's told me how much he tells people about that. What good does it do me? Does it get a single dish washed or load of laundry done? I am also a typical woman in that actions speak louder than words. Has anyone been able to get that idea through to their ADDer?
mirror
Submitted by brendab on
Sueann,
Don't really know how good this would work but I would try this:
First, think of something you do for him that you know really pleases and makes him happy.
Second, think of something you do for his benefit that he could care less about and probably doesn't even appreciate.
Then tell him about those two types of things that you do to benefit him. Ask him if he feels differently about those two things? After he gets the idea that certain caring actions do not have the same impact on his emotions, then bring up how much more it positively affects you when he does the laundry compared to how you aren't really affected by his bragging about your ability to diagnose him.
Sometimes I think we make a lot of assumptions about the other person's needs and if we'd just ask and try to do the things that give the largest "love deposits", we'd be way ahead in healing relationships.
Brenda
Learning to Speak Another Language is Hard!
Submitted by Hoping4More on
I'm always trying to draw parallels for my wife. I try to catch her in the moment, feeling something (good OR bad) that I sometimes feel as a result of something SHE does that results in MY feeling good OR bad, where I will say "Honey, you know how you are feeling right now? That is how I feel when you do X."
It's hit or miss - sometimes she gets it. Sometimes she'll miss my point, instead telling me that the feelings aren't EXACTLY the same, etc. I still keep trying!
I like your suggestion about finding two things, that are in one way similar but create different feelings/reactions for my wife and THEN giving examples of two things SHE does that SHE thinks are similar that result in different feelings for me.
I also want to add that even when trying to speak the other person's love language, it is not easy!
My wife likes to hear words of affirmation. So I have made it a point to tell her what I appreciate about her, often expressed as thanking her when she does certain things for me and telling her how much I appreciate that she does those things, or did that particular thing. When I do that, I think I am speaking her love language and hence filling her love tank - but she says all I am doing is thanking her for speaking MY language (acts of service). I guess that doesn't feel like affirmation to her - she wants to hear affirmation for who she is not what she does or doesn't do.
She, on the other hand, knowing I like actions, will leave me little love notes, telling me how much she loves me, or that she is thinking of me, etc. She thinks she is speaking my language with the "act" of leaving love notes, and I feel like she is really still speaking HER language - words of affirmation.
This stuff is hard, even when we both are trying!
Be Careful
Submitted by Ren on
I have found analogies to be one of the worst ways of communicating with my husband. Generally, when I try to explain to him, the way you feel when I do X (good or bad) is how I feel when you do Y ends up veering in one of two directions.
The first is that he will start an argument about how the situation X is different from situation Y. I usually get sucked in, and as always, I wind up in a fight and have no idea how we got there, and it always ends up being about who is "right" and who is "wrong."
The second is that he will say, "You're right. You're just better than me at everything." And then we will end up in argument over whether I think I am perfect and he is the one that needs to fix everything. I argue that I don't think I'm perfect, I am just trying to get him to understand how I feel, and that the only way I can figure out to do that is to give him a similar scenario so he can empathize. But then we go back to argument #1, over whether the scenarios are, in fact, similar, and back into the right/wrong argument.
Honestly, it is the most exasperating thing I have ever been through. It's weird, it has become so normal for me to have the circular, nonsensical arguments (I'm a lawyer, by the way, so illustration through analogy comes so naturally to me that it is *very* hard for me to understand that someone can't see the logic in it, even if they want to disagree with it). I have forgotten that before this relationship, even in previous relationships I never had such a hard time communicating, to the point where I literally want to fling myself in front of a bus.
Anyway, I've made a decision to myself to stop using analogies because they do not work for us AT ALL. I have continued to keep doing it all these years, thinking it will get through to him, but finally Dr. Phil's words rang in my head, "How's that workin' for ya?" Not so great. So I have to do something different.
Not to say it won't work for you, but just a warning.
OMG Ren, the Similarities Are So Striking
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Hey Ren,
Again, you describe something that fits my situation to a T! I also get both of those responses you described above. Like you, I find these communication issues infuriating, and find myself often getting so worked up we end up in a fight - often in the form of a right/wrong argument.
My wife will argue with me over the finest nuances, and I always bite! For some reason, I just can't let it go. I know things would probably be better if i didn't "bite" but I can't help it!
And I can't tell you how many times I say to my wife, in the course of a dispute "That's not what I said!" Grrrrrr!
So many of the communcations and active listening "techniques" I have learned over the years (I have a master's in psychology/counseling) just do not work with my wife. And the result is I often feel misunderstood and/or that I don't understand what the heck SHE is talking about.
I often find myself having to "grill" her to get her to give me the information I need to understand what/who she is talking about. Sometimes I even find myself saying things like "STOP! WHO is SHE?"
I also find it infuriating when she is talking about something, and I "reflect" back to her what she said, as in "So you did so and so?" to which she will answer "No, I did so and so" and what she says means EXACTLY what I just asked, yet she prefaces it with NO. No wonder our conversations feel so contentious all the time!
So, I guess the million dollar question is, knowing what does NOT work, can somebody tell me what DOES?
Wow, this post really struck
Submitted by Scarlet on
Wow, this post really struck a chord with me. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone whenever I have a discussion/argument with my ADD husband. It's impossible to use any logic with him, and he constantly makes the discussion veer off into any direction OTHER than the issue I'm trying to discuss. If I force him to stay on target and address an issue, he will ALWAYS revert to a "You're right, I'm just a horrible person and I don't ever do anything right" stance and refuses to continue discussion. There is NEVER any resolution to any issue because he turns everything into a "poor me, I'm the victim being attacked by the mean angry spouse" situation.
It makes me want to tear my hair out.
Yes!
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Exactly. It almost always gets to that point with us also. When she gets to the "You're right, I'm just a terrible person" place, it totally shuts down the conversation. Either she says it sarcastically, which infuriates me. Else she really means it, which is just as frustrating, because if I continue, I'm just "rubbing it in." If I ignore her feeling bad, I'm totally unfeeling and unkind.
Thanks guys
Submitted by everamom on
I'm new to my diagnosis (3 weeks now)...and I am 40 with 20 years of rough marriage and 4 kids.
I'm at the stage of "Is there any hope for me?"
I don't know if I want to learn something different. I'm just learning how to remember to take me pill every day.
It is nice to know that I am not alone in this. I am scared of being vulnerable.
Thanks for all your posts, I think they will help (after I read them a few times to really make it sink in) :)
Just Listen by Mark Goulston
Submitted by sapphyre on
I have already recommended this book elsewhere on the forum.
It's about really difficult cases where communication doesn't seem to be working. It's also billed as a business book.
Mark has an uncanny ability to tell exactly the right stories and use the right words. I read this earlier this year realised that I hadn't really been listening to my ADHD husband. I'd been trying to get him to do what I wanted, not find out how life was from his point of view. (Don't just get angry and say 'What about my point of view', please.)
I would recommend this book to ANYONE with communication problems with their partner, workmates, or others. Probably even works for ADHD people, seeing as I consider myself not-yet-diagnosed.
One of my favorite aspects
Submitted by brooks30 on
One of my favorite aspects about my ADHD partner was that not a day went by that he didn't tell me I was beautiful. However over time when there was no action from him on anything, those words became meaningless.
I got that, too
Submitted by BreadBaker on
I miss it, but I had the same reaction. It was all very empty without real empathy, and action based on that.
He tried so hard, but it all confused him so much that the efforts he chose to make didn't address the problems. I wish he would have tried "differently" once the diagnosis had come about. He still thinks I'm just an ungrateful wench instead of someone who was legitimately unhappy because she was emotionally abandoned. :-(
Yes, and it is sad
Submitted by BreadBaker on
My husband is very socially insecure, and always "trying too hard" to make people like him--including, on occasion, and even though we're divorcing, me.
I wish he could just lean back and let people know who he is, but he hides his true self and shows people what he thinks they "want" to see. I was flabbergasted when I noticed how differently he acted to different people. It was as though the "real" him was buried waaaaay under there somewhere, and otherwise it was like watching someone change the head on a doll.
Actually, it was more than a little creepy watching someone who could change his personality on a dime. After a while, I noticed that, for whatever reason (but probably stress), he couldn't "control" this any longer. He'd switch from one personality to the other in mid-conversation.
This also played into boundary issues that he has--and foisted upon me until I didn't know which end was up. His boundaries are very fluid--sometimes they're rigid, sometimes they're nonexistent (I mean for the same issue). He expected *me* to be like that, too, and would just keep pushing the envelope and calling me "unreasonable" for wanting or not wanting something in my life that I knew very well would be good or bad for me. This really did a tap dance on my self-esteem, too.
Yes, but ...
Submitted by shore on
I think that all the other issues every couple has are part of what makes it so hard. Before you realize it's ADHD, the issues look like a lot of other things. And all your own unique set of issues are tangled up with this one, so it's hard to see how the problems connect to the underlying issues. It is hard to see. And it makes it easier to see the other person's issues and ignore your own.
But can I ask people to leave this kind of thing at the door ...
"let's face it, in this society husbands already do less than their fair share"
If you'd said "many" - fine. But lots of husbands are doing their fair share in a marriage, and many are doing a lot more. Especially husbands of ADD spouses, who often feel (like women do) they are carrying everything.
People here are generally good about that kind of thing, let's keep it that way.
Im the non-ADHD spouse
Submitted by imsosickofthis on
I have been posting here for a few months now because I recently discovered my wife has ADHD, APD and possible BPD, yeah you can say I am exhausted at this point. Well....anyways we are going to similar problems like you described.
Im sure you have already thought this but What would your husband be like, or treating you if you did not have ADHD? The reason I ask this or have you think about it, is because right now after 8 years of marriage my feelings towards my wife are (anger, resentment, tired, and I'm just done with her) I just discovered her ADHD a few months ago so know I am asking myself do I even want to continue now that I found this out. I was not like this before, was your husband like this always? if he was not and now he is then you need to understand that his frustration level is max'ed out. Anything is going to set him off in a big way and very quickly. Nothing at this point may help that unless there is progress to make changes. My wife "talks" a lot about wanting to get things done, but 99% nothing happens. Its the DOing he needs to see and not the "talking". Talking (which I am not saying you don't need to do) will not help to start smooth things over.
Not trying to sound harsh, just wanted to shed some light as to what he is feeling. It is not OK for him to be verbally abusive to you, but you do have to understand that he is most likely "over it". At this point get marriage counseling as fast as you can so the counselor can start to help you two communicate with each other. Just like in a regular marriage when falling apart most likely is due to communication problems, this also applies to your relationship
you saID IT
Submitted by nomorebadhead on
funny nomorebadhead writing to Imsickofit!, i am glad to see some guys (non adhd ) posting on here it seems like mostly women posting about their adhd men. We had our aha moment on november 17th, it has been a rollercoaster of emotions from relief to overwhelming hope to now I am sitting here feeling so cheated because the whole time i thought this behavior could be changed, It WON'T. It seems like i just have to learn to live with it. well I am sick of reminding my wife to appreciate me and love me, and take care of my needs, I am sure you feel the same way. I wish they had chat rooms on here.
I dont know what to think
Submitted by complicated12 on
I am also new to this site. I love my wife but enough is enough. I obviously am on this site because I am trying to get answers which I have so far. I do nag her and I do notice it does not help. My wife does not work. We have a 15 month old, so she is at home with him. I also have 2 step sons that are 6 and 7. This is her second marriage. I see a lot of post about doing chores together etc, but after I have been working all day and she has been at home and hardly done anything, it is frustrating. There are decorations that have been sitting by the Christmas tree for 10 days now. Seriously? Any time I mention anything to here about doing something, I get the response "why don't you do it"; I respond to that VERY well.....look most men would not even bother posting and trying to find out what the deal is; we are in counseling and I am at my last stages. I do not want a divorce because of the kids. I find it very hard to believe that she will be able to take care of the kids on her own. Every morning she hits snooze 4 times, wakes kids up with 15 minutes to get on bus and then yells at them when they aren't zipping around like she wants......that is messed up. She also is a totally different person when she is on and off her meds. When she is on them, she is happier and easier to deal with. When she is off, she is a b**ch from hell and guess who catches the load of it, me and the kids.
Its awesome to hear other
Submitted by imsosickofthis on
Its awesome to hear other guys going through the same thing. Yes chat here would be nice. I have realized the numbers are small with husbands having wives with ADHD. I created a facebook page to try and bring us together LOL "Husbands with ADHD Wives". In no way is it for bashing so if your coming to bash dont come at all!!
I do not want to bash. I
Submitted by complicated12 on
I do not want to bash. I want to learn. But I think both parties have to understand what is going on. I see everyone talking about the non-ADHD person having to do this and that. The person with ADHD has to understand what his or her spouse is going through. Everyone talks about how exhausting it is for the ADHD person when they get home because it takes all they got to focus at work... ok, but what about the spouse with non-ADHD that has to make up for everything their partner does not do. Is he or she exhausted? absolutely......I dont think women are on here to bash, I think they are frustrated just like men are. Women are just more likely to get on a website and post their thoughts. No one wants a divorce and this disease is not easy. Matter of fact, it is very easy to read a lot of post, throw your hands up and say "screw it"! But that is a personal choice. I got married late and i have no intentions of throwing it all away. I love my wife and I love my kids and right now because I am so frustrated, my kids are motivating me to find answers. If both people aren't willing to work on their relationship, regardless of the matter, you have to move on regardless of their diagnosis.
I think I have a good
Submitted by WhystleStop on
I think I have a good handle on what is going on, just not what to do about it. I understand first hand the frustration of my DH, because I, too, get frustrated at the end of the day when my tasks are not all marked off. I see the sheer number of actions I perform every single day and the staggering percentage of them that will go unnoticed, while things that also need attention but I didn't have time to do, are still there, day after day. I have lived with the pain of my own disappointment that I cannot be what he wants, and I cannot be what I want, either.
At the same time, he and the kids may or may not 'add to' the items (notice I did not say 'mess' as this term is reserved for the outsiders -- non-ADHD'ers, thus frustrating any plan of action I may have been concocting on any one of the 20 or so 'tracks' of thought running through my head at any given time of the day.
I keep the TV shut OFF when I am here alone during the day, which, since he has gone on an oncall board, is pretty much nonexistant right now. I had more to say, but I'm exhausted.
I hate feeling like I fail everyone, or they expect more from me than I'm able to give. When I try to explain or just vent my own frustration, the conversations are usually turned to what they have to 'put up with' which really does not give me any helpful action steps to work on going forward.
So then, I'm back to trying to crowd the rest of the world out so I can try to grab one of the 20 engines whizzing by in my head before I lose that thought (maybe forever), too.
birds the word
Submitted by nomorebadhead on
I am a husband and my wife has been diagnosed with ADHD. what you have to understand is its not just the forgetting to do something or not making an appointment. it is this kind of thing happening over and over and over until it gets to the point where he thinks he needs to not only manage his life but yours as well. speaking from someone who has been doing this for years ( with no explanation) it is freaking exhausting. what you see as verbal abuse is years of pent -up anger. please try to find a way to work through this anger and find a way to re-connect. good luck