My husband was told he has ADD/ADHD but he refuses to take medication for his fear to become addicted... now he wants to divorce

He refuses to even hear about him having a problem..

Submitted by sapphyre on Fri, 06/11/2010 - 03:14

Dear Prohibited_Apple... when he won't change and you say "but he refuses to even hear about him having a problem." You need to move on. If he won't go to more counselling and won't take meds, I'm sorry, but you are fighting a losing battle.

All the success stories on these pages have two spouses that agree that they both have problems and need to work on them.

When only one partner agrees, things don't seem to work out. Read the posts. I'm sorry I don't have a happier ending for you.

If the child you have together has ADHD, do your best to bring them up to be self-reflective and make themselves into an ongoing self-improvement project... we can all do better in our relationships, ADHD or not.

I agree

Submitted by robinshusband on Fri, 06/11/2010 - 06:17

I'm in the opposite situation, I have the ADHD and am doing what is needed to get it under control. I didn't know I had it for 20 years and it now seems to have done too much damage in my marriage and my wife doesn't want to work on it under any circumstances. Our only option left seems to not be together.

A relationship ends only when one of those involved refuses to work on it.

I heard that before...

Submitted by hope09 on Fri, 06/11/2010 - 12:35

"I love you but not enough to make this marriage work"...your life is going to be a constant rollercoaster ride. You need to do what's best for you and your children. I've been with my ADHD husband for 5 years and come to learn that I can't change him nor are his nice efforts permanent. It sucks to hear and its hard to see thru all the turmoil but you are only 29 and need to move on to better your life. I'm not saying its easy but you owe it to yourself and children.

I love my husband but he refused to get help and take medicine. He's destroyed me and your husband appears to be destroying you and your family. I'm separated 2 months and I'm more relaxed and happier then I've been in a while. Do I miss him?...of course, but I've come to realize that I'm worth something and ADHD can't be used as an excuse to treat people poorly or abuse people for that matter.

My husband has done the same

Submitted by emmers_22 on Sat, 06/12/2010 - 21:38

My husband has done the same thing to me. We have been married for 5 years and have a 17 month old son. He was diagnosed 2 years ago and has been on different medications but I think he has only gotten worse. After my son was born he really started to get stuck. He left our household one year ago and his excuses sound exactly like your husband and you sound exactly like me. I have desperately tried to save our marriage with marriage counseling, my own counseling (because he tried to convince me that Im crazy and that all of our problems are my fault). He has stuck his feet in the sand and won't budge. He always takes the easy way out of everything or runs from the problem. I love him, have always tried to help him. I have sacrificed so much to cater to his ADD and taking care of him. It sounds like you are doing the same. Well there is a word for this....enabling. I do not want a divorce, but he has made up his mind that there is no way we could ever get along or get past everything that has happened over the past year. Of course I have contributed to the demise of our marriage...anger and resentment can make you say and do nasty things. His ADD has ruined our relationship but he has no self awareness of how his behavior has destroyed much of it. The staying out till 3 ,4 in the morning, being 38 years old and acting like he's 22, the drinking, NEVER FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH ANYTHING, he cant even call me when he says he is going to. The excuse is that he always forgets. And now he barely sees our son because he is too busy. The truth is that he can barely take care of himself. Like I said, I do not want a divorce, but when someone cant help themselves you cant help them either. In a way I have given up. I no longer beg him to stop the divorce process. I thought that after a year of separation I wouldnt worry about him as much. But I do. It never goes away. I have tried to stay aware of how I enable him and what I can and cant do. I no longer pay his bills, I signed a car over to him because I will no longer allow him to drive a care illegally that is in my name ( he does not have a legal drivers license). The funny thing is that when I took him to secretary of state to sign over the title, he was pissed at me!!! I put myself at risk legally and financially for him and he still thinks that I should continue to do it after he abandoned his family and refuses to work on our marriage! The selfishness aways reigns. I have resigned to the fact that he will probably never realize what he has lost. He will never say the things that I pray for him to say. He will never walk back in the door bags in hand and say that he is sorry and that it is all a terrible mistake. No matter how much I have taken care him through our life together, it was never enough to him. So now I get to have a broken heart and try my hardest to stay strong. He wants to have a close relationship with me- close but not too close. Of course everything is always on his terms. I have decided to be nice. To not say the nasty things I want to say all of the time. It never gets the response I want anyways.

I have bought a condo for my son and I, and a new car for myself. I have slowly started a new chapter of my life. I am depressed and terribly sad and broken over my situation and I still love my husband dearly. But I guess I have to love him enough to let him go on his journey. Although I never expect for him to realize what he has done, I still have a tiny bit of hope that one day his journey will change him back to the man I married. It is torture.

All of the things that you think in your head about how you cant believe that this is happening to your marriage, the embarassment and the shame will slowly start to go away. It is important to saturate yourself with close friends and family who can help you and support you. I think that if your husband wants the divorce then you should give it to him. Just because you start the process doesnt mean you have to go through with it. I am sure you have done everything you can along with taking care of the kids, the household and the finances all by yourself. This is a horrible, horrible disease that gets swept under the rug too often.

Even if they do come back,

Submitted by Asetamy on Sun, 06/13/2010 - 10:23

Even if they do come back, say their sorry and all that, if they don't really mean it, it means nothing anyways. My husband will tell me all these things (we have seperated twice) in order for him to come back home and honestly, nothing has changed so I almost wish that he would just leave and be ok with it. In fact, he will do everything in his power to stay n the household, except making necessary changes in his life. He talks the talk but never walks the walk and I keep believing his lies about changing and addressing his issues but it's all just for show as far as I can see. So even if your husband wanted to be with you, doesn't mean its any easier, in fact for me, it makes things all that much harder because I cannot seem to get away and make him leave us alone. It may sound cold but after dealing with the verbal abuse, no follow through on anything really, impulsive spending and the uncooperativeness of him I just want to get on with my life.....

Don't be so quick to group everyone the same.

Submitted by amanwithit on Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:37

I think it would be wise to be very careful about grouping everyone with ADD/ADHD into the same category. The Dr's on this forum are a great example of how a couple can overcome and learn to live with this disability. Every spouse is not going to react to medication/therapy or even just "want to" the same way.

It ultimately comes down to wanting to be better and not using the disease as a cop out, I'm dealing with mine and I know I'm not perfect but I can tell you because of many ways I've chosen to battle this I will not be the same man I have been in the past. I won't treat my relationships or career with the same carelessness. Counseling, medication and personal responsibility are what makes it better. They must do it because they are unwilling to accept the past behaviors in their life, I don't believe the work can be for someone else, it must be done for them.

It could be the ADHD and it could also be the person is just not committed to the relationship and won't admit it. If you are committed I believe you will do what it takes, as long as you have a partner who is willing to understand they have a role as well. The partner does not have to tollerate poor behaviour or things that have a major impact on the family, if both agree measurable processes can be put into place that will help and make life better.

Please help me understand what you just said...

Submitted by renoir911 on Sun, 06/13/2010 - 15:58

Hi there. I've read and re-read your post and I like what you said. It speaks to me as I try to understand what is going on in our lives.

Please help me understand what you said.

1. You won't treat your relationship or career with the same carelessness. Can you explain that to me in more detail please. When did you come to understand that you were being careless about these things? What meakes you say that ?

2. You also say that counselling, medication and personal responsibility are what makes us (ADD) better. Question! Do you believe that your spouse now needs to be well informed and a full participant in what medications you are taking, what counselling you are receiving and what are the responsibilities you speak of ? Are they the responsibilities associated with being in a relationship ? May I ask what responsibilities you speak of ? Thank you.

3. You also said: They must do it because they are unwilling to accept the past behaviors in their life. I fully agree with your statement but I do have a huge question to ask! How do they come to accept their past behavior in their life ? What brings them to that conclusion ? Themselves? Others ? What when others who do not know the situation tell them that they have done nothing wrong ? Doesn't that give them a boost NOT to change a thing ? Firgive me, I am trying to understand how the mind of a ADD person works so I can adapt to it.

4. You also said: "I don't believe the work can be for someone else, it must be done for them." I'm trying to understand what you just said but am unable to. Are you saying the work of accepting, or changing their bahavior ? Please explain what "work" you are talking about, thank you. And also, what is it that must be done for them ?

5. You started your last paragraph with an interesting statement and I place a lot of truth on it. You said: "It could be the ADHD and it could also be the person is just not committed to the relationship and won't admit it." This is what brought me to my knees trying to understand if my wife was not that into me or the relationship. Or if it was due to something else, and then what! Your whole last paragraph speaks volumes of truth. I'll also quote your last sentence: " The partner does not have to tollerate poor behaviour or things that have a major impact on the family, if both agree measurable processes can be put into place that will help and make life better." The partner you speak of here is me in my relationship. I accepted poor behavior but reccuring poor behavior caused me much stress, even disbelief in what I was seeing, hearing, and yes, it impacted me more and more to the point of raising questions and when the questions didn't get answers, I resorted to making statements hoping to grab her attention that something was indeed really amiss here. The word you used in your last line is huge! You mention "MEASURABLE". A measurable process! That makes so much sense and in fact would work for both parties. For her to measure how she is progressing in her control of severe ADD symptoms. For me, how I react and how I help her get there!

Your post speaks to me as I try to pick up the pieces of shattered lives because eventhough I do not have ADD, my response to the many stressors of ADD in my spouse was improper.

I look back and all I saw was cold indifference to the consequences severe ADD had in our relationship.

You are a very brave person for wanting to be better and for not using the condition as a cop out. As the non ADDer in our relationship, I too want to be a better man so as to never again allow anger to surface because it is wrong and damaging. I do look forward to your responses to my questions. Have a great Sunday.

helping you understand

Submitted by amanwithit on Sun, 06/13/2010 - 21:32

renoir911,

It is important to remember not everyone is the same, nor is the disease the same for everyone.

1. I didn't realize my marriage or my career were being influenced by the ADD/ADHD until after I was diagnosed and I studied and went to therapy. I studied and got help because I did not want to be a prisoner to this disorder, like alcoholics someone with ADD/ADHD can decide to do something about it. I felt tremendous guilt when I learned my actions and not those of others were actually causing the problems that contributed to losing my marriage, losing many jobs, poor financial decisions, etc. Even though I took full responsibility for my actions, actions of others also played a role. My spouse chose to leave, not go to counseling or even work together to overcome the issues. I still struggle with a tremendous amount of anger for that, if she had been diagnosed with cancer or some other disease I would have never left her. In fairness though I caused a lot of pain.

2. Very simple, I'm the only one accountable for every decision I make. Not the ADD/ADHD, I own it. I think first the ADD/ADHD person has to fix things with themselves because they want to be better. They can't fix it for any other reason then that. Do I think the spouse needs to be involved, sure. The non-ADD/ADHD spouse in my mind needs to hold the ADD/ADHD partner accountable to the things THEY BOTH HAVE AGREED ON. It would be unreasonable to hold the ADD/ADHD person accountable to some standard or behavior that they both have not agreed on, even if it needs to be in writing.

3. I had to hit rock bottom, just like an alcoholic. It took almost losing everything. I don't think others can have much of an impact once the ADD/ADHD person admits they have a problem, most of those with ADD/ADHD prior to learning can't understand the perspective of those they hurt and what comes across as trying to inform is usually seen as persecution. It did to me, until I learned why. But, I wanted to know why.

4. The counseling, the behavioral changes, all of these things must be done for you. Part of the problem with an ADD/ADHD spouse who finds out and does start to get help can still be perceived as everything is still about them, that happened to me. Yet I knew I had to fix me first. I couldn't fix myself for someone else, or because they wanted me to. Can an alcoholic stop for someone else? I don't think so.

5. For me learning about the disorder was enough to being committed to fixing it. It did make the relationships around me better, but only because I wanted to make them better. Not because someone else wanted to make me make things better. I fixed numerous relationships that had bumps in them and these people have no idea I have ADHD, I just wanted to make my life better and those that were involved in it as well. It is possible that your wife can't accept who or what she is and be ready to look in the mirror and accept that. What are you doing to make it easier on her to do that? I can see what it is that you are doing to make it harder for her to do that; I've read some of your post. With the measuring though it is self-measuring, I don't want someone coming to me each week with a report card and telling me I passed or failed. I am doing that myself and have put processes in place such as list and such. In my professional life I have a coworker I trust and they go over my list with me often, I've asked them to help me hold myself accountable. Honestly they don't really need to because I'm doing that myself.

Saying all of this though I still have my bad days, the great thing is they are much less often. Everyday though I keep working at it.

You both need help, but you both much do it for yourselves and not the other. At least that is what I think.

I agree with you amanwithit, 100%

Submitted by family on the mend on Sun, 06/13/2010 - 22:28

Having been to the bottom and back living in a marriage with ADHD, I can't agree with your post above more. Recovering from ADHD, or dealing with it, facing it is akin to an alcoholic giving up drinking. Rock bottom usually is what it takes for one to wake up and take a look at the damage their disorder has caused. And not just the sufferer of the disorder is affected; everyone in his family and his entire life has been on the receiving end of his ADHD, whether he realized it or not PRIOR to treatment.

But what I also say to myself over and over while reading this board is that it takes two. It takes two. It takes two. It takes two to destroy a marriage and it takes two to rebuild it. Within the mess of a life your ADHD spouse has created, take a hard look at how you contributed to his/her getting there. Sometimes it is by doing too much, not standing firm, being a pushover, exhausted, fed up. But a marriage does not come to an end because of one person. It takes two to repair it also. Repairing and healing from an ADHD marriage takes incredible maturity and consideration and compassion on the part of both parties in the marriage. This is where I think many marriages fail after a rock bottom experience. One or both fails to have the maturity to behave with dignity during the recovery phase, during the rest of the marriage. It is very difficult to behave like a compassionate adult after a lot of hurt. It can be done if both parties are working very very hard. Damage can be repaired under many circumstances. Maturity and compassion and forgiveness are key. These traits are hard to come by. It's possible though and often worth it.

Great observations

Submitted by arwen on Sun, 06/13/2010 - 23:17

By both Family on the Mend and Amanwithit!

My husband and I are proof that it can be done. But I think you have to do it for *both* yourself and your partner. And I think sometimes it takes even more than maturity and compassion and consideration on the part of both parties. I think in many cases, it may also require a great deal of courage.

Some people who are diagnosed with ADHD are frightened by the idea of having something "wrong" with their brains (note: not *my* view, this is a fear I've heard expressed by some ADHDers, but I can understand their feeling). Some people who are partnered with an ADHDer are frightened by it, too -- it's almost like somebody told them it was an inoperable cancer, and they feel they can't handle it. The power of this fear may promote denial on one hand and running away on the other.

But please understand that I don't mean that everybody who decides to end the marriage is cowardly! Sometimes the relationship is irreparably damaged -- and it can also take great courage to walk away.

"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore

Thank you...

Submitted by renoir911 on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 03:26

Thank you for your response. I am getting an education here and it is sinking in. To answer your question as to what I am doing about it to make it easier for my wife to do that, I am getting help for myself. I am doing this for me. I do not know if my wife is going to try medications or not for this disorder. I hope she does because what I do for myself needs to be also compensated with what she does for herself to create a baseline to restart our relationship. I have been held accountable for my angry responses. I also hold her untreated ADD accountable for an equal part in this. As you say, we must be honest and perfectly clear about this. I've accepted my angry responses are real and affect her in a negative way. She must also accept that her untreated ADD is going to continue to create problems if she does not follow up her diagnosis with treatment. I think she wants a second opinion yet I have started my treatment plan. Not really an even playing field is it! I'll wait it out, but not for too long as I need to do a lot of recovering myself and I want to do that with someone who understands, not dismiss me as the only one responsible in all of this. If my wife accepts her faults and works on them with her own counselling and possibly meds, I will also give her a lot of slack. We'll have a lot to talk about to make our life together a true relationship. As you said in your post, our progress must be measurable in a positive way. This has to be done with a competent counsellor, which I have found. "Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin." (Mother Teresa). Blessings to you and all.

I will try to answer your questions as well if you don’t mind.

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 02:16

1) I was not married when I was diagnosed. I was in college and struggling to also work at the same time. I was careless in the sense of flying by the seat of my pants. Doing things in a panicked half assed kind of way and desperately hoping it all worked out in the end. Kind of like driving through rush hour with your eyed close, clenching the wheel and hoping you come out the end alive. I was too rushed and overwhelmed to give things the proper care an attention. My school work, my job and my friendships all suffered for it. I had to admit things needed a change when I was close to failing my classes, lost my job and was fighting with my closest friends who felt neglected and like I was unreliable. It was a professor who suggested I get tested for ADD. I was diagnosed with combined hyper and inattentive with high impulsivity. It was mostly the impulsiveness that lead to other seeing me as careless and scattered brained.

My hubby was diagnosed after we first moved in together. I refused to marry him unless he went to a doctor because I was sure he was ADD! He is inattentive type and a little OCD. He has struggled with a lot of emotional disconnect issues. He suffers from a lot of guilt and shame at not being the man he thinks and society thinks he should be. So he disconnects emotional and tries not to care to keep the pain away. Much of his carelessness comes from a terrible memory and the need to hyperfocous on one thing and he struggles to remove himself from that thing.

2) Counselling, medication and personal responsibility are part of the treatment. I am no longer medicated as I am going through my child bearing years right now. My hubby is medicated and so is my oldest son. Other key factor sin treating ADD is diet, exercise and lifestyle. ADD is not friendly to a complicated life! Or having a lot of stuff. We don’t own much that is expensive or that we would be terribly upset or hard done by if it had to be replaced because it was damaged or lost. We keep our schedules light. For example we go to a drop in floor hockey night on Fridays, there is no requirement to come every Friday and you can show up at any time during the evening. This is so much better than trying to attend games and practice on a set schedule.

Having a supportive and involved partner means a lot. But there is a difference between being involved, informed and supportive and being controlling or placing to much pressure.

3) Counselling helps a lot to come to terms with your past. An ADD person looks back at her life and winces or cries. Pain, shame, guilt, humiliation, self loathing. Feeling worthless. Everyone is different. My hubby would try and still tries to play the blame game, its everyone else’s fault, the world is out to get him. Or he disconnects emotionally so he doesn’t have to face it. For me it was the self hate. All those years of being called stupid and lazy. Feeling like a space cadet. Always being panicked because I couldn’t do anything right. Its hard to face. Its hard to admit you hurt other people and yourself. Its hard to face the failure.

4) You can take the drugs away from a junkie but you can’t force them to quit using. You can send an anxerexic to the hospital but it won’t make her start eating. You have to do it for yourself. You have to have that moment of clarity like the alcoholics and addicts say they have. You just can’t do it for someone else. You can’t change who you are and how you do things for someone else no matter how much you love them. You can’t put mind altering drugs in your body every day and deal with side effects and stuff for anyone but yourself. It’s a waste. You will resent the other person; you will loose your resolve. You will fall off the wagon.

5) I see a lot in ADD support groups and even here that a lot of stuff gets blamed on ADD that I think is just being a bad spouse or parent. You can be ADD and be a good person or be ADD and be abusive. I am always amazed at how much abuse people will take. There are people who are married to ADD who stand up for themselves and command respect and people who are doormats. I see so many people, especially women, who for years and year let their ADD spouse get away with treating them horrible and then hope that somehow meds and a therapist is going to change a decade of pattern. You teach someone who to treat you. ADD does not make you an abuser!

Measureable. I hate that word. It makes nonADD people jump up and down in excitement. Measuring progress when dealing with a brain disorder means having very flexible goals. Sometimes its two steps forward and one step back. Sometimes it more or less forward and back. What you need to see is that people are trying. But you can’t see all of it because its in our heads. When non ADD people measure they get all those expectations and then get angry. You guys love your expectations.

We love our expectations?

Submitted by renoir911 on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 03:40

I have no expectation other then a safe, happy easy going relationship. That's not asking for much is it ? And the measuring part that another person here mentions is a good concept. Why? Because there are two people involved in an equal partnership. It's not to show one person is better or more involved then the other. It is to create a BALANCE in the relationship because without BALANCE there is nothing. I will do what ever it takes to continue getting the help I personally need to control my angry outburst. But I will not be a doormat for anyone. Thank you for having taken the time to respond to my questions.

Measurable

Submitted by amanwithit on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 03:56

Please don't confuse my thoughts on being measurable with unrealistic expectations.

When I mentioned measurable I was very clear that the non-ADD partner and the ADD partner needed to AGREE on what is measurable. It is not fair in any relationship to hold someone to a standard that they both cannot agree on.

When the ADD spouse is in a right frame of mind and is willing to have a calm conversation with the non-ADD spouse they can come together and determine what and how they will measure success. I personally think it is a good idea to write these down in simple concise methods and place them where they can be seen on a regular basis. Then in a loving manor, when either party strays outside the path they have agreed to together they can get back on track.

No confusion there Sir...Response to post above and below.

Submitted by renoir911 on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 13:26

No confusion there Sir, I understood what you meant. We all have expectations in life and we alll give and take a lot to facilitate relationships at home or at work. I know all about unrealisitc expectations and those show up loud and clear for me at work when we as Fire Fighter / Paramedics put students through their paces in their practicums. It is then that they must show to us that they have it together on all emergencies. Each and every call is discussed, good or bad, but they do not go on without telling us how they feel it went and us in return pointing out the good points and those that need change. So expectations, realisitic expectations are a way of life for me so as to make sure these students get it so that they do not become a weak link in our chain of survival lest they take down a whole team. I don't have any unrealistic expectations of them. They either have it or they don't. If they don't we provide them with all the solutions. If they still cannot handle it, regretfully they must be informed that they cannot pass their practicum and you give them the reasons why. But they would have had plenty of warning before getting to that point. I one day had a ADD student who somehow managed to get through hours of classroom, and other training. Once in the field, he simply could not follow protocol and had forgotten even the basics. I took him asside early on and provided him with a lot of extra simulated scenarios which he all failed at. It was then I observed peculiar things going on and he admitted he had ADD and then asked me not to tell anyone. My main concern was to get him through his praticul because that's what he really wanted to do for the rest of his life. His ADD was not a concern for me and it was not up to me to say anything about it. My job was to make sure he met ALL expectations but he never could at this late stage of his training. Had I let him graduate, he would have made all sorts of wrong decisions for peole whose lives would be in his hands. Were those unrealistic expectations ?

Now it is a fact that with emergency personnel, we have been trained to deal with life threathening conditions. In order to pass officer tests, we must take courses, and pass written, oral and practical tests. We are trained and expected to conform to a way of life that is army like, stressful at times and rewarding too. We learned exact communications procedures, incident command procedures and so much more. It is a fact that it impacts our daily lives no matter what. After I've had a particularly stressful day at work, I am less able to deal with stressors at home. I need a time out, and I need a serious extra dose of understanding. I also need to be a loving partner to my wife no matter what the issue is. This has been difficult for me, to drop the work attitude and replace it with another attitude at home, one that shows no sign of frustration, or inability to deal with the problems my life partner may have had during her day. Afterall, she is #1 in my life. Or is she...uncounsciously speaking! When you mention "unrealistic expectations", those could also be subconscious ones as well can't they ? Some Psychologist somewhere had made a statement (wish I remembered his name) that when a Fire Fighter /Advanced Life Support Paramedic graduates, he is faced with at least ten thousand facts, bits of information when a serious call comes in. Makes sense, after years of raining and on going courses. If I can manage that information, store it somewhere and make good use of it to maintain good working relationship with my co-workers and save lives, why is it in a marriage with an extra player in it (ADD or what ever it is), I am having so much difficulty ? At work, if something or someone causes tension, we discuss it and we come up with a plan to prevent it from going any further. I get home and I find myself reating instead of using the "tools" I've learned at work to maintain a good working relationship with a whole city of Fire Fighter /Paramedics. If I can get along with them all as a team mate and a friend, why is it I have so much trouble at home with my wife's ADD ? How do I rid myself of these expectations that marriage is a two way street, equal partnership, division of labor, and much more that we call unmet needs ? Are those unreal expectations ? Perhaps this is a question for doctors in administration to help resolve this for me. I am all ears as I continue with my counselling on how to deal with frustrations and anger management and especially, on how to handle the triggers that bring me there in the first place. I am learning that yes, I do have a problem at home that I don't have at work...silly huh! I'll handle an emergency situation one after the other but I have difficulty dealing with ADD at home. At work, everything I do personally and everything we do as a team is MEASURED. Has to be so no one gets hurt. It is demanded of us that we measure up, or trouble looms. Try putting yourself in my shoes for an hour. You'veall seen ER, and you watch the news so put me in the middle of it all. Then at shift change, remove yourself physically and emotionally, go home and try to enjoy the rest of your day especially if it includes now putting up with ADD lifestyle and your work just goes on but in a different way. You get no rest emotionally when that happens. It is when we become so tired emotionally that we loose the ability to "push down more stressors at home. That's where your spouse needs to be understanding of what you've been through, and perhaps plan to become a little more involved in your life so that when you get home, you feel wanted, loved and relaxed. Are those unrealistic expectations to have ? If they aren't then are buttons being pushed ? Are they loving actions, love busters ? What causes you life partner to ignore you when you need her the most? Why can't they see that ? As I go through counselling, these and many more questions will surface. I come here to also read your posts. I read your responses and I learn. I need to learn and I find this a good place to come to. If I wasn't interested in learning and correction, I would not come here, I'd see a lawyer fast. That's perhaps the difference between one who has an open mind and one who just sees things their way. I am open to all reasonable responses as you good people help me become that better person who feels like an elastic band being pulled both ways. Thank you all good people.

Ignoring the rest

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 11:57

Please don't jump on the last thing I said in a very long post and ignore the rest.

I don't know you so I cannot speak to what your expectations are. Or whether or not they are reasonable.

All I can say is that based on my point of view and experiences it seems that most Nuero Typical people have very long lists of expectations from others and for life and react very strongly and negatively when they do not get it. A kind of inflexibility or inability to accept that things are not the way they want them. Taking things as a personal attacks when they don’t get what they think they should have. Even right down to how a dish washer is loaded (thinking of my mother in law here lol)

I know this is generalizing. I'll point out that a lot of generalizing happens on this board, often very negative generalizing about us ADD people. Which is why I have been reluctant to post here for so long. However we all can only express things based on what we ourselves have lived.

I have an ADD point of view. That point of view sees a world full of people who with high expectations for everything and who attack you when you don’t meet those expectations. Story of my life right there *sigh*

I just had a light bulb moment

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 12:18

Pardon me, I just had a light bulb moment. A year ago when my son was diagnosed with ADD I had a few very long sessions with my therapist about expectations. I was struggling with my expectations of myself as a mother and for my son.

Expectations are something that you consider probable or certain or feel is bound in duty or obligated. To expect something implies a high degree of certainty.

You see you can’t expect that you will have a happy marriage because even between two wonderful and well adjusted people a happy marriage takes work. Expecting that you will have one means that you think it is owed to you, or the universe, or your spouse, is obligated to give it to you.

Expectations are presuming things are going to be a certain way from the start and not going into something willing to make it the way you want it.

We all have the right to want to have a happy marriage, good lives and well adjusted children. But we have no right to expect to have them.

We aren’t handed happy marriages, good lives and well adjusted children. We have to make them for ourselves from the start.

I think it's short sighted to

Submitted by Asetamy on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 12:55

I think it's short sighted to say that non-ADD/ADHD people have too high of expectations, for one most people I see on here have basic expectations, which is to take care of ones self, children and house. These are not my personal expectations per se but the expectations that society has "taught" the majority of humans on this planet for many many years now. I do not see it as acharacter flaw that I expect my husband to do the dishes when they get nasty, crusty and moldy. This is not something that I can see as too high to expect that he take care of them, after he has said he will time and time again. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect that my husband not yell and scream because he doesn't understand what I am saying or is outright wrong about how I feel about something. True indeed,not all people with this disorder have these problems but many obviously do otherwise so many of us would nto have such similar circumstances. The world is filled with expectations on how to behave so to say that having expectations is wrong or unreasonable seems like bull to me. Humans have had "expectations" about how we should behave since waay back, this is why we have what is called society, values and morals. I think some of the non-spouses are venting about the frustrations of their spouses not livng by the same values that they do but also much of the rest of our society.....

Expectations?

Submitted by Sueann on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 15:15

ADDers build your expectations during the hyperfocus stage, then tear them down once you marry them.

My boyfriend/fiance drove 60 miles round trip to pick me up and take me to work and drove the reverse trip to take me home at night. My husband let me hitchhike 3 miles home from the end of the bus line. My boyfriend had a job with great insurance. When he became my husband he blew off that job and left me, uninsured, to support him and I had to stop taking my hypertension meds because I could not afford them.

Somehow, we think the hyperfocus is real, and that they really do love us. No one could be as lovable as he made me feel when we were dating. We expect this will continue. When they ignore us, it hurts precisely because the expectations were raised. I wouldn't have expected any old co-worker to drive me 30 miles home. But when he did, of course, I didn't expect that once I married him, he'd let me hitchhike.

If you feel that keeping a job, keeping your word, occassionally paying attention to the household, etc. are unrealistic expectations, maybe you never should have gotten married.

Not Sure I agree

Submitted by amanwithit on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 18:17

I don't think we build our expectations during a hyperfocus stage, maybe we set expectations of others during this stage. The challenge is most of the damage is done before the ADD/ADHD person learns they have this disorder. Like anything there are those who have it who do nothing about it, or just put on window dressing and then there are those that are committed to understanding the illness and making life better for themselves which makes lives better for those around them. The challenge is the actions of those around them can either contribute to the ADD/ADHD or contribute to making things better. Doing nothing will get nothing, from either spouse.

Remember the ADD/ADHD spouse may not understand the role they play in some of thier actions until they understand the disease, then they have to chose if they want the disease to control them or if they want to control it. There are good days and bad days, just like everyone else.

Society doesn't allow for people like me

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 15:25

Society doesn't allow for people like me, in fact it rejects us wholeheartedly. So you'll have to forgive me if I am uninterested in conforming to societies standards and expectations. Standards and expectations that as an ADD woman I could never fully meet anyways, which therefor, for me at least, makes them unreasonable. Because if those expectations are more than I can achieve as an ADD woman even with meds and therapy and everything then they are obviously too high and unreasonable.

As I said, I feel we should want and hope for a happy marriage where we feel loved, safe and respected. But expecting they will be given to us is a no-no. This I think is a big one for us ADDers who often struggle to do the work required to make a marriage functional and healthy. We have to learn to step aside from the expectations and demands placed upon us and commit to doing the work, not to make someone else happy but to become better people ourselves, the end result of that being a happier marriage.

Of course your husband should do a fair share of the chores and be involved in the marriage and give his best. But expecting him leads to dissapoinment. Accepting that his isn't can lead to finding ways to make it happen. Maybe it is a different way our brains work. But trying to meet someone else's goals or want from me doesn't work. I have to want to make it work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3VuV5Jvazs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF1YRE8ff1g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiGsGJaxaEM

Some interesting articles on marriage expectations:

http://www.rd.com/living-healthy/unrealistic-expectations-about-marriage...

http://www.simplemarriage.net/expectations-the-path-to-an-unhappy-marria...

http://www.beachpsych.com/pages/cc65.html

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art28253.asp

I used to tell him "pretend you still love me"

Submitted by Sueann on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 18:21

I was so desperate to get some help and attention, not necessarily what I had come to expect during our engagement, but something. Working all day and night at 2 different jobs while he refused to work, doing the housework because he wouldn't, not being able to afford my own meds but struggling to find a doctor to prescribe for him.

I used to tell him, pretend you loved me, what would you do? If you loved me, wouldn't you want me to have my meds? If you loved me, would you expect me to do all the dishes and housework between 10:30 at night and 8:30 in the morning while you do nothing. If you loved me, wouldn't you keep the phone charged so I could call you to pick me up?

If ADD prevents you from meeting expectations like that, it's a truly terrible thing, and we should all run away from it like gazelles.

I know modern expectations on women are hard-we are supposed to work all day at an executive job and then come home and keep a Martha Stewart house. ADD must be harder on women than on men. But expectations of safety and fairness are not unreasonable, even if ADD is involved.

I agree, well sorta

Submitted by amanwithit on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 18:39

I agree he needs to do these things; he needs to do them not because you want him to but because he wants to and most importantly he understands how it makes you feel when he doesn't. The challenge is with the ADHD mind it only makes it worse when someone keeps asking them to do something.

Somehow he has to get to a place where he wants to do it because he believes it is the right thing to do for himself. If he is working on the disease, getting counseling, and figuring out how he can be better then he will be better. With that said it is different for everyone, does he really understand what is going on? Have you sent him the many examples on this forum that show how his ADD/ADHD is hurting you and others?

All it took for me was awareness, I'm not perfect but I'm better. I got the counseling, medication, and behavioral changes that are making a difference. Every now and again I'll come home and see some things sitting out or something I didn't put up and I get mad at myself for it. The funny thing is there is not anyone there to see my mistakes except me. I'm glad I'm disappointing myself because of that it happens less and less often.

I hope he can get to that place, for him.

I don't care whether he wants to or not

Submitted by Sueann on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 13:32

I don't care if he wants to work and provide insurance for me or not. I just care that he does. I want him to not want me to have another stroke, but what I really care about is that I get my meds so I don't.

Everybody has to do things they don't want to. I know I did, do now and expect to in the future. I don't think ADDers should be some sort of privileged characters that don't have to get up and go to work in the morning because they don't want to. When I was engaged to my husband, I was worried about him doing so much driving to get me back and forth to work. He said "I never do anything I don't want to do" by way of saying he didn't mind all the driving. I didn't realize he meant it literally, and that he expected to never do anything he didn't want to do.

I am fortunate in that he likes his job, so he does want to do it. I am fortunate that he's not a wild spender or an addict. I am fortunate in that his job requires him to take his meds. I would really feel fortunate if he was interested in working on housework, or moving or any of the unpleasant realities of life.

Motivation and the ADD brain

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 15:13

Did you see the first of the videos I liked to in the long post I made? It is about motivation and the ADD brain.

No, I couldn't watch the videos

Submitted by Sueann on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 16:27

I have an old cheap computer, which holds me back in school. I can only watch about 1 1/2 minutes of any YouTube video. I did find the one about ADDers not being able to deal with things in the future until they hit them in the face, interesting, as far as I could watch it.

I don't think that's true of my husband, or anyone else who's taken the time and money to go to college. Surely, they are delaying gratification (fun, sleep, money, a job, whatever) by going to college. So they are capable of thinking about the future, just not the future as it relates to their spouse.

Are you saying he couldn't see the danger I was in by not having my hypertension medication, because I didn't actually have another stroke right in front of him? It really came across that he didn't care if I lived or died, as long as he didn't have to work.

Yes, that's what she and Dr Barkley are saying

Submitted by sapphyre on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 23:36

The ADHDers have future myopia... they can't deal with the future until it is almost upon them.

So that means no one can ever depend on them?

Submitted by Sueann on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 11:19

I will die if I don't get my hypertension meds. Am I supposed to accept that he can't see that, and just accept that I will have another stroke and either die or become disabled? Right now, I am a student (by our agreement) and can't provide them for myself.

Parents, too, need to be future oriented. You don't change diapers or get up in the night to feed a baby because it's so much fun, but because it needs to be done.

That makes me want to run far, far away and never come back. It seems like you are saying that we aren't allowed to ever count on an ADDer for anything.

If your husband can't get his

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 14:00

If your husband can't get his act together well enough to care for a wife whose life might be in peril otherwise there is much more going on than ADD. It might be another disorder or he might just be an abusive asshole.

I know many ADD men who are wonderful husbands and fathers. They might forget to bring home milk once in a while and let the dishes sit in the sink overnight, but they take care of the important stuff as best they can.

But isn't that what you are saying?

Submitted by Sueann on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 14:20

That ADD makes him unable to see that, or think about that, or do what needs to be done? You are scaring me.

it doesn’t stop you from seeing your spouse is very ill

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 17:25

I never knew an ADD person who didn't at least try their best when things like your situation with the bad health was going on. Not unless they were also just bad people or had something else going on like a personality disorder.

ADD can make it hard for me to understand why people get worked up over spilt milk stuff. Little things.

But it doesn't stop me from stepping up if someone is sick or injured or desperate.

My last pregnancy was really hard on me I am still recovering from it. I had a difficult birth too. My hubby was a rock. He got me to appointments made sure I took my vitamins, took cares of the kids while I rested after the birth. Everything he did everything for months. He was amazing my hero. I think it nearly killed him and he was so happy to get to go back to work and regular life. But he stepped up and did it.

I know an ADD woman who has a hubby with cancer. Its terminal. She has stepped up, she takes care of him, feeds him, deals with doctors, drives him everywhere, learned everything about cancer. Everything that needs to be done she does her best. She is worn out, scared and tired and a wreck but she does it.

ADD stops you from remembering to buy butter and to get home on time. It makes you think you turned a light off in the bedroom and you didn’t. It makes it hard to job hunt and keep friendships. It makes you forget birthdays and phone numbers. It makes it hard to express yourself and know when a joke isn’t funny. It makes you not notice dog hair on the carpet.

But it doesn’t stop you from seeing your spouse is very ill and it doesn’t make you do nothing about it. That’s something else.

Very well put Miss Behaven

Submitted by YYZ on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 08:21

Thank you for that post. I hope many Non-ADDer's read it too. Your post made me feel good this morning. I commend your husband for stepping up when you needed him most. I am an ADD husband who does household chores, takes the kids when my wife is slammed at work or not feeling well. I have not had a gap in employment since 1994 (about 3 months). Before medication I NEEDED a To-Do list to point me in the right direction, well I still need my lists/reminders :-) I can still forget to pick up butter from the store, but it is usually because I remembered something else, took care of it, then never got back on task. I know there are ADDer's that do try very hard, and get only the things they forget pointed out to them, great for people with low self esteem issues. Don't sweat the little things is one of my motto's...

Thanks again for expressing the thoughts that I have trouble verbalizing. I appreciate it!

That's just it- the need is not obvious

Submitted by Sueann on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 23:16

I had a stroke 3 years before my husband and I started dating. I recovered fully. I was told I'd have another, probably fatal one if I didn't get on proper hypertension medication. When I married my husband, he didn't see me as ill. Hypertension is invisible.

I guess that meant he didn't see a need to work. It was OK for him not to work, look for a job, or do any housework and leave all that to me. He swears I never told him I had to stop taking my meds when he stopped working, but I told him how concerned I was about it every week. He just didn't hear me.

You saying they can't see the future until hits them in the face led me to wonder if that means he can't see I need my medication and therefore he needs to work and provide insurance.

He did pretty well taking care of me after surgery a couple of years ago, although his former coach had advised me not to go ahead because she said he could not do that. There ae lots of stories on here about ADDers who can come through in a crisis.

I do think it's ADD. This board is full of stories of ADD guys who blow off their jobs, won't work, expect their wives to work 2 jobs, etc. ADD is the only thing they all have in common.

just a question

Submitted by brendab on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 09:02

Sueann,

I want to ask you a hard question and at the same time I don't want to offend you. it is a question I found myself asking during my divorce process and I had a very difficult time answering it.

You frequently post about your hypertension and how deeply it hurts you that your ADDer doesn't show his love for you by providing your medicine, but he does get his medicine. I totally get this. My question is this:

What is it about Sueann that she does not put her very life at the top of her priority list and get her hypertension medicine? She knows the risk is very real and could disable or kill her. You might want to take some time to consider why you are willing to risk your own life and not take care of yourself. Forget your husband for a moment and really focus on why you are not loving yourself more.

I hope I have not offended you and I want to point out that as women we tend to do this. My turning point came when I realized that my "inner child" had been pleading with me for years to take care of her. Everytime my feelings were hurt because others were "selfish" and didn't even notice my needs, my inner child would cry and ask me to do something about the injustice (not literally but just a way for me to understand how I subconsciously didn't act to love myself more)

I realized that I kept pushing my inner child's needs aside, telling her basically that her needs could wait and to be quiet. After all if she just stayed long enough and did enough for others they would show they cared about her by meeting her needs. I ignored her pleas for 34 years. then one day I realized that much of my pain was self inflicted. I did not have boundaries and I did not put my needs first. If I didn't value my deep needs enough to meet them, then why would anyone else?

I spent some real quality time with my inner child and made a promise to her--I will never ignore you again and what you need matters. I told her to remind me if i start ignoring her again. In the past two years she has reminded me because I find myself sometimes slipping into those old patterns and I shudder at the idea of returning there.

This little change in the way I value myself has altered everything about my life. When I do slip back into those old patterns, I stop and and renew my promise to her. I repeat my promise that her needs do matter and there isn't anything I won't do to meet her needs. It doesn't matter how impossible it seems, I WILL take care of her.

During this process I realized that I could have a tremendous impact on my two teenager daughters by living a life that shows them that it is NOT SELFISH to take care of ourselves. Instead it makes us stronger to take help meet the needs of others.

I am sharing because I care about all the women on here. I sometimes cry over your pain and wish I could be there to just encourage you in whatever decisions you are trying to make. It is so hard to make good decisions for yourself when you are in the midst of so much hurt.

Brenda

Valid question

Submitted by Sueann on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 09:57

I do think your question is very valid. Some of it is the nature of marriage, my own nature and the messed-up medical situation in this country.

He started hanging up on customers after we were married. I talked with him about ways to avoid doing that (I have much more telephone experience than he does). He swears it wasn't voluntary. I say "well, no one else did it." He just could not tolerate the frustration of dealing with this particular type of customer.

I got his insurance when we were married. I got diagnosed with sleep apnea right away, but he got fired before I could get my CPAP machine. I felt value-less. "You mean he knew I was diagnosed with this dangerous condition and he couldn't hang onto his job until I got the treatment?" The doctors just said, "wait til he gets another job with insurance, we can't help you."

The doctor who had prescibed my medications "fired" us as patients because we owed him $90. Then I had no one to write a prescription for me.

I feel deeply about the importance of keeping my word. I had signed the lease. Therefore, it was my obligation to pay the rent or die trying. Not just because we needed a place to live, but because I said I would. I used the utility services, therefore I had to pay the utility bills. We stopped things I wasn't obligated to pay. I could not make his car payment, so his car was repossessed. We weren't contracturally obligated to buy heating oil, so we didn't. Therefore, I had no money left to pay for a doctor visit or medications.

Once his therapist and I independently figured out he has ADD, it became important to get his ADD meds so he'd be willing to go back to work. I felt the best long-term decision was to get him functioning again because he has the potential to make more money that I did. That decision actually worked out. Eventually, the charity arm of our local hospital gave me a CPAP machine. I haven't had another stroke, he's working, insured and happy. I went back to school. When I graduate in December, hopefully I'll get a job that provides my own insurance. It's easy to ignore hypertension. It has no symptoms. I still forget sometimes, even though I have enough meds. He never forgets his ADD meds. If he does, he ends up doing something stupid and that makes him remember and take them.

I don't think like a child, I am an adult and think long-term. Scary as it was, what I did was the honorable thing to do, and the long-term result has been good. I just wish my ADD husband could think about other people and think long-term as well. I'm still hurting because he didn't value me enough to work so I could have my medications.

I am curious about a couple of your statements, Miss Behaven

Submitted by Aspen on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 20:30

because they are something that I have read elsewhere by ADD posters but that I do not understand or that I haven't seen personally. I know we all have different situations and experiences with types of ADD.

I do not have ADD, but my husband has inattentive ADD and while it seems to me that he'd like nothing more than for his meds to be the only magic bullet required for dealing with his ADD, he is putting in the effort and working with a coach to learn how to best cope. He is learning to use his electronic tools more effectively, he helps around the house, etc. He is not one of the mates posted about here who I am convinced that in addition to having ADD also are lousy ppl in general.

Why do you think society in general rejects people like you? I understand there are ways that systems are set up that are either not ADD-friendly at all or are at least are set up in a way that is easier for nonADD people to work within the framework. But in our situation and from a lot of what I am reading about in other people's stories here, it is usually the ADD mate who is most beloved by others. They are generally easy going, frequently very funny, non judgemental, and many other qualities that seem to make them a person that others love to be around.

I know if I so much as say a negative word about my husband's forgetfulness or overcommiting himself there are usually ppl jumping right to his defense....he is busy, he is so much more helpful than a lot of husbands, and on and on. It is true. I am married to a great guy, but sometimes the greatness is easiest to see from the outside looking in because none of those ppl are picking up the slack for him when he has overcommitted himself, doesn't notice the mess he makes everywhere he goes, or are married to a man who regularly tells you he will do things that he never gets around to do....in fact sometimes the reason is doesn't get to what he promised me is because he ALSO promised one of those other ppl to do something, and he feels he HAS to do that whereas what he is supposed to do at home can wait until *later*.

Do you believe that women with ADD are less accepted than men are?

I can see where in a traditional model for homelife, a woman with ADD could be at a real disadvantage. The picture of the woman keeping all the balls in the air, scheduling everyone's different events, while keeping a perfect home could definitely be challenging for someone with attention or detail-oriented challenges. BUT when you hear ppl speak about a man with ADD who isn't fulfilling his traditional roles it seems like much harsher words are used: lazy, a bum, a jerk, unwilling to work, etc Whereas women seem to get described as sillly or flighty. Now I am not IN ANY WAY saying I would want to be described as silly or flighty (esp unjustified), but I'd prefer it to being called a bum.

From where does the deep seated focus on doing things FOR YOU come from?

I have heard this type of comment from several ADD friends. For example one has previously functioned well on meds. He decided to go off of them because he wanted to control his ADD on his own with no chemical help. He has been dreadfully unsuccessful by any interpretation of the phrase, and he finally admits he needs the meds. He is ready to go back on them (or so he says) but his mother has been nagging him to get back on them as he has spiralled further and further downward without them. He is refusing to go on them until she stops asking him to because until that happens, he says if he goes back on the meds then it isn't for him it is for her? My response is ??? Why isn't it possible to just have the same goal or desire for yourself as another person?

What is wrong with doing something for no real other reason than that it is good for your mate? I don't like making coffee in the morning. I don't drink the stuff and would prefer if my ADD husband did not have the caffeine, but he likes to wake up to coffee in the morning and for literally no other reason than I like that it makes him happy, I do it. I'm sure there are things that he does for me in the same way. People who love eachother ENJOY making eachother happy.

I expected to have a happy marriage because based on what I knew of each of us before I accepted the proposal, I believed we'd both put in the work to make our marriage happy because we love eachother. That has proven to be true, and as a matter of fact I honestly believe my husband would have gone undiagnosed his entire life had he not gotten married, but because his ADD symptoms were interfering with our happiness (we'd started to argue a lot about him not doing what he said he would), he took action to find out what the problem was. He realized no matter how much he tried, he wasn't able to overcome it on his own.

I don't see those types of expectations....that someone is going to love you and have your back and be your soft place to fall....are at all negatives in a marriage. I think it is good to speak up when either you aren't providing that for the other one. That is the only way it can get corrected. I do believe that requires you to talk honestly about what each of you are looking for in a mate, but if you say you are committed to something, I can't imagine what would be wrong with expecting that to happen.

Please understand I am not arguing with you. I am genuinely interested in the ADD point of view, but so often I just can't seem to grasp it.

Food for thought

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 15:14

I will think carefully about your questions and perhaps pose a few to my hubby as well if he is up for it later today.

Finally, someone else who speaks for me...

Submitted by renoir911 on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 16:12

I am eating up your every words. You are speaking for me as well as I never received any training on such matters. I especially like your last line: "but if you say you are committed to something, I can't imagine what would be wrong with expecting that to happen." Thank you. Someone should write a book on this very topic, "Understanding your spouse's ADD and how to respond in a kind, loving way".

Renoir - there is a book, in fact two :)

Submitted by sapphyre on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 01:26

It is my understanding that part of the reason this site exists is to help Dr Hallowell and Melissa Orlov with their books!

Go to the front page of this site (http://www.adhdmarriage.com/) scroll down and look on the left... not the top book, the one underneath it. Oh, darn, not available yet... September 1st.

As for the other book, it is not from these guys, but, I'm sure Amazon will point you in the right direction. I am reading it now, and I plan to read Melissa's once my book budget increases :)

Yes, I want t get that book too......

Submitted by renoir911 on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 03:23

Yes, I saw that book advertised there a while ago but not yet vailable. I was able to pick up the other book at Chapters here. I think it is imperative for those of us married or in relationships with people who suffer from this severe mental disorder, instruct ourselves how to function. I walked into this marriage having been told my wife had a life long history of depression. Perhaps everyone should be checked out for disorders that if untreated, will cause huge problems in a relationship. I think it should be law ? Why? Because these same untreated severe ADDers fall back on the law for support, to label you as mentally abusive, for a part of your pension after they've found nothing else of you to destroy remorslessly. It should be law as it is a common practice with the US army to make sure ADD recruits get treated. They require it. Why not before entering into marriage ?

I just watched several videos, including this long one (1:21 hr) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WroDEcG7tJc&feature=related Of Dr. Russel Barkley's video presentations on ADHD. In this video he calls ADHD a real and serious disorder. I I know I wasn't imagining things! He also goes on to say that it's like a cruise missile. Well, if it is like a cruise missile, I know what it is like to be in its crosshair! A blindness to the future! A deception! How true, it is definitely NOT a gift. HE also staes something I have heard before and read in several papers, that ADHD is linked 80% with other disorders such as anxiety, depression which my wife has had for years. So I wasn't off by too much to say that her depression was not the root cause of her problems, but a symptom of a much worse condition. Another point of interest he mentions is that ADHD is also linked to "oppositional defiant disorder". My wife has that very trait which has led to many problems for us, so often! One of the best statements Dr. Russel also made mention of is one I have known about for a long time. He states that the patient with the disorder is NOT a reliable source of information to their Psychiatrist! How true! Yet her Psychiatrist will not allow me to disclose the signs and symptoms I have to live with. He refuses to respond to me in any way. It is called patient confidentiality! I get that, but not his patient's disorder is a root cause of so much pain in our relationship. That just adds to the deception of it all. I have to rely completely on my wife to tell him what is going on. Fat chance! That would mean acceptance of the disorder and wanting to seek proper treatment. Not wanting to see him to get retested! That's denial at it's best! So we know that the patient is an unreliable source of information, but where does this leave the spouse ? In the dog house I guess! Or forced into a separation. That's how unfair and illogical this whole thing is. I no longer trust the system nor the patient because I am a living example of how they've failed me as a man who only wanted the best for my wife. May they all rest in peace knowing they've played the game very well at other's expense. I'll have to order Melissa's new book when it comes out. Not sure why I want it because my future is now so uncertain. Maybe to feel vindicated as she might write about people like me who suffer in silence. Any chance I can scream emotional abuse too ? If it is not emotional abuse why am I told my stress level is too severe to work in the environment I love and found friendship in? It's one thing to be stressed when you are told divorce is imminent. Isn't separation a precursor to uncontested divorce ? It is another thing to be stressed when you tried in vain to correct a serious flaw to the relationship and your partner, instead of hearing you out as a loving partner would, decided to revert to oppositional defiance! That Sapphyre. is what is causing me the worst stress. Thank you for caring. These days I find that those who care the most are on this website, perfect strangers.

Wow, great links... thankyou!!!

Submitted by sapphyre on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 23:35

Especially for the You Tube clicks of Dr Barkley. I think I'll go back and watch them a few more times. I'll share them with my hubby later this week (right now he's feeling poorly as he's run out of one of his painkiller meds cos he used it up too quick.... something I've been unable to understand or deal with....until watching the Dr explain).

Dr. Russel is an excellent speaker...

Submitted by renoir911 on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 01:03

Excellent videos, especially this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qguNB4b36Vo&feature=related

I just wish my wife would watch it, learn from it as I am learning to see it in a compassionate way. Now that she has imposed a one year legal separation on me for having reacted to all the flaws of ADHD that Dr. Russel so eloquantly brings forth, what next ?

thank you for the link

Submitted by brendab on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 13:56

Renoir,

I had heard of Russell Barkley and he certainly does a great job of explaining how ADD causes a lot of the hurtful behavior. I wish he had spent more time on the grief process of diagnosis leading to the final stage of acceptance. My former BF will not even investigate an ADD diagnosis, partly because he sees it as stigma. I wish there was a way to break through so that I can help him, but he is like an alcoholic in denial.

Everyone here should take a look at these videos--they will increase your empathy and give you a reality check about what you are dealing with when you find yourself living with a person who refuses to address ADD.

Brenda

agree, but

Submitted by arwen on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 03:40

MIss Behavin, you said:

Of course your husband should do a fair share of the chores and be involved in the marriage and give his best. But expecting him leads to dissapoinment.

I agree with a lot of this post, and with many of your views in general, but I have to take issue with this point. Expecting does not *have to* lead to disappointment. I expect any number of things from my husband, but I'm not always disappointed when he doesn't meet the expectations. Having an expectation is about establishing a goal, or a target to aim at (and hopefully hit). Disappointment is the typical result of judging a performance that misses the target. But I can have an expectation without passing judgment. I don't *have* to be disappointed if my husband misses the target. I can simply look at the target and say, "How about that? I thought you would hit it but you didn't" -- a simple statement of *fact* without any judgment in it. I can start a dialog: "Did you also think you would hit the target?", "I wonder what happened that caused you to miss it," etc. etc. None of this has to involve disappointment.

So in my view expectations have a legitimate role in any relationship, whether ADHD is involved or not. If you have no expectations, you have no target to aim at, and in my experience, when there are no goals, no progress is made, either. There are many things my husband used to struggle with because of his ADD, that he can now do with a fair degree of proficiency and with considerably less effort. This has been a positive outcome for *both* of us. But it never would have occurred if I hadn't had any expectations.

Please believe me when I tell you I understand your attitude about society's expectations. Even though I don't have ADD, I am definitely *not* what society considers normal. I have an unconventional sense of humor. I grew up a tomboy, and my career has been in fields and positions that have been overwhelmingly male-dominated. I've moved away from my traditional religious upbringing, and my beliefs today would be criticized by many. And I agree completely that society tries to, even likes to, punish the abnormal, the square peg in the round hole, like me. Society has expectations of me that I will never meet either. Guess what? It's society's loss that they cannot appreciate my skills and gifts. If society wants to be such a donkey, it isn't going to hurt *my* feelings. But -- I don't see that as a good reason to take my marbles and go home, either. Even though society and I don't see eye to eye, we can still benefit each other in a lot of ways. And society's expectations of me, while sometimes painful, have also done me good in some ways -- they've made me take a hard look at myself, and sometimes change and grow.

I invite you to re-examine your philosophy on this question. Perhaps there is an opportunity that you have not heretofore seen for you to grow from societal expectations as well.

"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore

Very well said Arwen! This

Submitted by Asetamy on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 07:52

Very well said Arwen! This is the idea that I was getting at in some of my posts. I dont see how life is able to function if people as a whole do not have expectations from one another. I don't mind my husband expecting me too have more patience and understanding wiht him because he has ADHD, that seems fair to me! I love him and know that he will have more difficulties doing some things in life and by marrying him, I signed up for that. On the other hand though, I would like to be able to expect him to be accepting of a gentle reminder about a chore or appointment, or me saying he has the wrong perception about the way I feel about something. It's a two way street! Life is not perfect and no matter what sometimes we will be disappointed, whether we live a life affected by ADHD or not. I don't agree that all expectations lead to disappointment but sometimes they do, and thats ok! I can deal with that but I need to see my husband at least giving it an effort. Thats what gets me, is the zero effort part. I don't think my husband has a problem with many of the things I expect and have wondered why some people on this board who are experiencing ADHD/ADD have felt this distaste for their partners expectations.

"I don't think my husband has

Submitted by Miss Behaven on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 08:25

"I don't think my husband has a problem with many of the things I expect and have wondered why some people on this board who are experiencing ADHD/ADD have felt this distaste for their partners expectations."

Fear of failure, Bad self esteem, anxiety, abusive childhood, perfectionsim, more expectations than you can really handle. There might be lots of reasons.

Renoir I almost cried when I saw your expectation

Submitted by sapphyre on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 22:08

A safe, happy easy going relationship...

Unfortunately, we can only expect 'safe'. We can hope and work for happy and easy going.

Thankyou for opening up here ... it has been very interesting. I too have had some anger issues recently, and have been working on them.

My new approach is to try and maintain a calm household (we also have two children), and save the adrenaline and outbursts for stuff that really is important and urgent... e.g.

- 6yo DD and I are baking cookies (a new thing for us). I tell ADHD DH I am having a shower, and that when she tells him to get the cookies out, can he please do it. Oh, and to look for the oven gloves before he needs them ;)

- 10 minutes later, rinsing my hair, DD comes in and says, "Mum, he won't come!"... so I walk out of the shower and scream up to the other end of the house "Come and get them out of the oven now! Or they will burn" DH comes out and says, "Geez, she told me less than a minute ago. I calmly say, "They are time sensitive." He then starts hunting for the oven gloves - takes him another minute - and I tell DD to look for a rack to cool them on and go back in the shower. (About half of the cookies are a little burnt, but still edible.) *DH is totally okay with all of this later.*

- 2 minutes later, DD comes in crying, Mum he's doing it wrong!!! I come out again, to find DH is using a pizza tray (with holes in it) to cool the biscuits on. I tell DD that's okay, and she should calm down. DH is happy I take his side.

Yay, progress.

Amen to that Sueann

Submitted by renoir911 on Mon, 06/14/2010 - 16:18

I certainly cannot add anything more to your post, you said it all for me.

Have a beautiful day.

Roller coaster ride for me...

Submitted by renoir911 on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 23:21

I am doing well with my counsellor lady dealing with two things. 1. Don't allow someone to kep pushing your buttons as it is disrespectfull and eventually warrants a response. 2. Respond with COMPASSION to what ever comes at you. I am learning that and excercising it with everyone. I also have another serious stressor to deal with. One year separation has been imposed on me because of what I told her in a moment of anger when I just had had enough. Of course, she just see's my response, not the trigger, but I am the one who now has to live a separate life for one year none the less. This is extremely difficult for me but I will not let this knife in the back affect how my counselling is going for me. I am getting all sorts of mixed messages that make no sense and suffering emotionally more and more. This roller coaster of a ride has to end before I become completely dead inside. I'm already off work indefinitely due to extreme stress which I try to hide. I do not like being told I cannot go back to work due to my stress level. I've reached my lowest. I try not to show it but my whole being is dying a little mor each day. I will not last a year wondering and hoping when messages I am getting send me on a more dangerous roller coaster. I am no longer interested whether or not she does something properly anymore. I am just trying to survive this sentence. I truly wish I had never been born! I am not kidding.

Wow, I know you love your job

Submitted by Sueann on Tue, 06/15/2010 - 23:33

For people doing important work like you, the job is part of your identitiy. You must really miss that. I've never seen such vivid descriptions of firefighting as you write. I can tell you love it.

Many of the posters on this site write about how their stress improves when their ADD spouse leaves, or they leave the ADDer. I know you love your wife and want this to be all fixed, but hopefully, the separation will reduce your stress level. This does not improve in a day.

Please take care of yourself. You have been dealt a hard blow but you have the resilience and courage to survive it.

Yes, I love my job....of helping others...

Submitted by renoir911 on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 00:24

I've spent 34+ years helping others, bringing new lives into the world, and seeing some leave this world. It has not been easy and I nearly quit being a medic after we had two back to back cases of SIDS. I packed it in but my (now dead )Fire Chief would not accept my resignation. I love my job and especially the people I work with. We are a team. We function well together as a team. I could never have worked a regular day job. When I look back, it's been difficult at times, but extremely rewarding. I was never afraid to stand up to bad decision makers. I always praise those trying to do the best they can sometimes under very difficult condition. I am on indefinite medical leave due to extreme stress. I don't want this but it is forced on me by my physician. This is a new low for me, never ever been there and never thought I could as I was strong emotionally. Not that strong I guess. Guys from work call and ask me how I am doing and they want me to go for a drink or two but I won't. What's the point, to talk about the things that make you wish you were dead ? I don't need that anymore then I need the sentence that is imposed on me now (1 year separation living in same house as room mates). I can live this way but not for a year as married but separated. My wife is using the mental abuse line as I became angry with her and said things I should never have said to her ever. There is no longer any point explaining ADD NAUSEUM how I got there. No point at all and in a year I wonder if she will have understood how I got there. I need to get better emotionally so I can at least return to work. I have good friends who care and who know me for who I am. Guys at work trust me with their lives and would follow me anywhere because they know I'd never allow them to get in so deep they'd get hurt, or worse, die. I've been able to deal with any emergency, medical, mental, physical and find solutions. Yet look at me now! Can't make sense of this relationship. Say the wrong things in desperation. End up separated. End up off work on medical leave. What next? Grave plot? I am going to visit the cemetary as it is quiet there. It's peaceful, a refuge for me as I walk by graves of people who had a life. I wonder how many of them would want to live it again. Not me! I am getting the help that I need for me as I also try, TRY, to not let my mind wander too far on how unfair this whole thing has been for me. Yes I love my wife. But she no longer loves me because if she had a semblance of love left, she would understand why I am where I am today. Resilience and courage to survive this ? No. I have nothing left and I hate waking up each day to face the same desires and meet the same sentence. My counsellor lady is the most important person in my life right now. She gets it! She is my Fire Fighter now, and I her patient. She is family for me I never had. Relationships need balance and fairness, but how do you make that point clear to someone who sees it in an entirely different way, so much so it drives you to loose your mind! I'll loose my mind but no anger, just compassion as I feel truly sorry for what these people have missed in their relationships. The uncertainty of it all is starting to depress me to no end. I can't expect anyone to care other then knowledgeable people here, my counsellor, my friends and workmates and my aging mom who wishes so much for us to have a good life together. Those are the only people in my life who care. Thank you for allowing me to get this off of my chest.

You will feel better... you sound clinically depressed right now

Submitted by sapphyre on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 01:31

However, I'm not so sure living in the same house is a good idea... like being married but with none of the benefits. And not really removed from the source of your stress.

I'm not your counsellor, but please take her advice unless she knows nothing about ADHD. { Hugs }

Start with you...

Submitted by alex2355 on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 08:29

I do this a lot and it helps...Make a list of everything that is bothering you....I don't care how big or small.....It may take awhile.....Detail it...Start with your job, your boss, your mom, your wife, the kids, (if you have them), the dog next door, the birds, the lady at the store who packs your groceries wrong, whatever bugs you....EVERYTHING...write it all down. When you get that done let me know,, then I'll tell you what to do next.

Back to you alex2355...re: list

Submitted by renoir911 on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 13:34

Ok, done! It is not a long list. Right at the top of this list is: receiving mixed messages and not knowing what to do with them.

What do you want me to do with this list ?

Divide the list....

Submitted by alex2355 on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 20:37

Ok,ok,ok....You need to divide a new sheet of paper in half, rewrite your list in to 2 columns.... The things you "CAN" control and the things you "CAN'T" control.

Think about it....can you really control XXX, if you can, put it in the control column...if you can't control it, put it in the can't control column.

Now tear the paper in half and get rid of the things you can't control. Throw it away, burn it, tear it to shredds....Get rid of it....Focus on the things you can control.

My husband was amazed at the list he was left with...He can't control his ex-wife. He can't control his parents. He can't control his clients. The list goes on and on.

Let it go. Work on you! Be the person you should be, need to be and want to be.

Great advice Alex

Submitted by sapphyre on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 00:33

We've done similar stuff in the Carer Wellbeing Program (for mental health carers) that I am currently attending.

Wow, you've really hit the nail on the head.

Submitted by renoir911 on Thu, 06/17/2010 - 16:59

Thanks for reinforcing what I have been told by others. I am doing just that.

1. I am working on me to become a better person. I am doing it for me. I am also doing it so others can see what is truly in my heart as we reflect who and what we are correct ? I no longer want to reflect anger or any pain from anyone. I want to reflect compassion and loving attitude no matter what comes my way.

2. The person I should be! Yes! Bingo! The person I should be has not been the person I have been for a few years. I now know why. I cannot control that treason so back to #1.

3. The person I need to be! Yes, I get that now! I need to be RESPECTFUL, COMPASSIONATE, understanding, loving, reflective, I need to be ME!

4. The person I want to be! I want to be all the above as I know I have always have these traits in my heart. I've always enjoyed "giving" over taking. I am a giver first! My needs come second to others. That's me and I cannot change that. Not that I want to or that would make me a person I would not like too much. I want to be free of guilt of what I have said to my wife over the four years of our marriage. I want to be free of having to look back and see how my buttons were pushed. I want to be free of that and free of button pushers. I want to be free to enjoy the rest of my life happily, not that it may be possible now. I want to be free of those who will not accept AND OWN their own serious problems. I want to be free of those who blame others for the very thing they themselves do to others without knowing it, or do they! I want to be free of those who deceive others. I want to be free of the present anxiety I feel in my whole being about my future. If this is not possible, I want to be free of this life.

I'm working on this too...

Submitted by metooo on Fri, 06/18/2010 - 22:02

This is everything I'm working on too, Renoir. I'm starting intake at the mental health center next week. I hope insurance will cover it. I have a LONG way to go, but I want to get past all this pain and anguish. I need a lot of help with it. Yep, I so much want to be a better person!

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