Hello - I have been with my partner for 8 years - I left the relationship after the first year but decided to return. It is long and complicated and I feel I have been confused about my partners behaviour and ways of seeing and doing things the whole time I have been with him. I have come to the end of my rope with trying to understand - I am the only one in the relationship trying to understand our relationship! I try to understand him, he almost demands that I do, he doesn't attempt to understand me on more than a superficial level and we are back to confusing behaviour for me, double dutch conversations and chaos. I feel a bit stupid for trying to work on this for this long. Soon into the relationship his mother died, very suddenly, we met when he was 40, he appeared quite lost and confused and I genuinely thought it was bereavement and mid life. I stepped back a bit, he was funny, charming, we had the same dreams, ideas and similar backgrounds in that we came from the same industry but now self employed, wanting to find a good work/life balance. I have led a fairly responsible life with work and family issues and I met someone who was a lot of fun, at a time where I was focusing on my own dreams to find a good relationship and have a family. It started off really well........now all those logical connections, being on the same page etc have disappeared, they disappeared quite quickly really, I can see I am the only one that follows A B C D goals and if I stumble, I can explain to myself and others why, find a solution or choose a different path.
In the whole time I have been with my partner the picture of our life has been muddled, he seems to have 'gone along' with me, enthusiastic, upbeat, but somehow emotionally uninvolved, always able to be hurtful or neglectful and not realise, quite self centred it seemed. He mentioned ADHD at one point, he went for an assessment soon after his mother died, I was not living with him then and he was all over the place after her death. At the time the consultant said, you may have mild ADHD with anxiety but you seem to have a lifestyle that suits it and managing well, we don't medicate adults and suggest you do some mindfullness meditation to manage anxiety an continue as you are. At the time I said, what about relationships, did you mention the difficulty in communicating your needs clearly, the short fuse - he hadn't.
The relationship got worse, in that I never knew where I stood, he seemed to forget conversations, it felt like I didn't know him and couldn't get to know him, yet he kept diving back into the 'plan' and I stayed. The plan was never really joined up, in my head it was and I thought in his too, but nothing seemed to progress. My mother then died and I decided to get a job for routine and he sold his house and said we could move to a new town, which was what we had talked about. I suggested renting for a while, I still wasnt sure of things and grieving.
Cut a long story short we purchased a house, we have never had children and for the past 4 years have struggled to get on consistently or progress any sort of plans unless I make them. Before we met he had worked for himself for 10 years, he had left his job and taken a project with him that he could run for 3 months of the year and not work the rest of the year. He also purchased two houses and rented them out, part of his income comes from them. He spent some of the year visiting his sister in Australia, a lot of time on the beach and liked his free and easy lifestyle. No routines and only pressure for 3 months of the year for work. He is successful financially with this arrangement. He comes up with ideas for us, big ideas and they are just ideas, none of them happen and only get talked about in an abstract way, if I try to actually make moves to make them happen he gets stressed, in fact every conversation he gets stressed. It appears he is not listening, he looks the other way, jumps in on what I say, corrects me and gets excited about How things will work but not realistic about making them happen - at the beginning this meant I followed through and did everything, only for him to get upset that I was asking him to join in, he would get stressed. If he does things with me, he doesn't really seem interested, unless he is talking about big ideas or I am paying him attention. If I ask to talk things through, plan things, boundaries, arrangements, he can get stressed easily, if I am assertive he gets defensive.
I could go on - but in a nutshell I feel empty, he doesn't seem to want or understand relationship needs. Compliments, affection, approaching me, good communication, shared plans and projects - it took us 2 years to reevaluate our service providers because every conversation he got stressed. If you ask his opinion on things to act on and agree he often gets stressed - if I go ahead and do things alone, he is fine with that, but when I ask for some sense of partnership, he gets offended and says he does give me partnership! He provides the majority of the income in our house and cleans the kitchen obsessively when he does do it, but seems to think he does other things which he doesn't. The main problem I have is that he has rages, he is rude, he is stressed and it's getting worse, I try to ask what the stress is and work it through. There is zero follow through and the stress remains. I have asked him to address the inconsistencys, tell me how he feels, listen to how I feel. I have modelled ways for us to make a team and reach our goals and all that happens is he says great and the next day nothing - it's like he forgot. I have made things happen and sometimes he uses that and says, you push and push and I don't get to do what I want. I then ask what he wants, but he seems to need permission or help to actually do it - things like hobbies etc I honestly feel like I am living with a teenager - he wants his old life back, that I am pressured, boring, he wants no pressure. I feel very hurt that almost all his conversations are not about relationship issues and I ask what he wants from the relationship and he says - not to be stressed. I can't understand how to behave to keep him calm, which is how it has become, I almost live separately, I am planning on leaving but need to raise finances - all the while trying to work on this because he seems oblivious about the problems unless I raise them. It feels as if this isn't a grown up life - it feels like fantasy ideas that will never happen unless I make them happen and I feel he is a stranger. Yet, if I try to get us to progress, he gets stressed, overwhelmed.
He basically seems unaware of me completely - the more I detach, the more he is distant, but still looks to me to talk ten to the dozen, complain about his stress, talk about our plans and future, but with nothing concrete. I have stopped trying to progress anything, I just listen and expect nothing. He says he wants to move house, he has been looking at new houses every month for years - I say, please decide on the goal and we will work towards it, explaining that this random way of living is stressful for me. People come to visit and he can't plan, gets annoyed if I do, when they are here, he just says yes to things they say and everything feels very out of control and unstable. I have come to the end of my coping strategies and am angry, I have explained to him what I need, mostly boundaries around his ideas and talking and also some sort of common ground to share, I have told him I feel lonely and unmotivated. The more I do this, the more defensive he becomes, he tries to work it all out (on his own, talking AT me) and can't understand why I am unhappy and sees me as attacking him.
It's seriously awful, he rages are increasing. Last week he mentioned ADHD which he does occasionally - he was calm and said he might go to the doctor. He has been to the doctor recently and said he is stressed, the doctor gave him the option of anxiety medication, he has not mentioned that since, he didn't mention ADHD to the doctor. He said he thinks there is no treatment anyway and lifestyle choices are what he did before, I mentioned that different skills are required in relationships and that I am not coping as he isn't understanding what I am 'missing' out on and how much responsibility I feel, that I can't live the way he does as it feels almost childish to me - we are not meeting each others needs or achieving anything. He seemed to understand but two days later is stressed and angry when I try to follow through, act in a different way - it's like he can't get a grip on any concept for long and thinks he has.
I apologise for the ramble - it isn't very sensicle of clear what I am needing - but it represents my confused mind. My needs aren't getting met, he wont admit he has a problem that is hurting me and the relationship and he is blaming me and saying he wants his old life back. He is not saying we will separate, I know he wont follow through with anything, but I feel rejected and in a no win. I find it hard to leave without really understanding whether this is a mental health issue, or more, but either way, it's hard to be with somehow denying something that is clearly not working and continuing to behave the same way - THAT feels like madness.
Thank you for reading.
EDIT:
I didn't want to make a list of the things I find hard, a blame list, but they are the things I am struggling with - they seem so opposed to a stable, foundation from which to grow, which is what I am trying to achieve.
Impulsive - mainly verbally, quick to talk, answer, think of ways to make things work (even conversations to his advantage), very bright with strategy. Means I never know where I stand, he says things and behaves differently, makes plans and forgets them, makes goals and can't get there, goes off in moods, doesn't think to get in touch. Has made quick decisions to sell and buy houses in the past. If there is nothing to spark him off, he is rarely motivated to look beyond is comfort zone - I feel let down and part of a game. He cannot regulate emotions - he flies into rages or empty sitting or sulking - he can't manage stress.
People Please & Criticism - he genuinely thinks he is doing the right thing, so why should I want more. He will almost do anything you tell him, if he is focussed on you, if you were to spend days and days with him, he would probably do everything I asked. If you ask or communicate and seek mutual agreement, the conversation gets stressy - he can only seem to do as told or you do as he says. This results in me feeling like I am ordering him about and also that he isn't really bothered. He will behave this way for anyone - he will do as asked and complete it if he is given step by step instructions on a regular basis - but I have learnt this actually stresses him out a lot and takes a lot of energy - it isn't a genuine desire or motivation
Empathy /Emotional Awareness - I am not sure he knows how he feels or what he wants and even if he listens to me, the next day, it's like he didn't really hear, his interactions remain the same, superficial and either dependent on instructions on how and what to interact with or he is quite able to practially ignore until something interests him and he will start talking almost AT me>
I feel very lonely and very confused as his way seems and sounded so good - but it doesn't contain things like serious talks about our financial future, or emotional needs and trust and respect. Everything feels temporary and I wonder if all this is hyperfocus, impulsivity and inability to regulate mood. I definitely feel I am in a relationship with a condition and not a person - I cant understand the person with the condition and he doesn't seem to think I should want anything that I do want.
New here. Confused and stressed
Submitted by SilverLight on 08/13/2014.
SilverLight
Submitted by sunlight on
You've written an articulate description of many fairly typical untreated ADHD behaviors. I don't have time to do your post justice but here are some brief thoughts, maybe they will give you some ideas on how to proceed. It's clear that you have worked very hard on trying to understand his behavior and he is not responding to you - also typical of untreated ADHD. Increasingly he feels pressurized, doesn't know what to do, and is reacting with anger. However it seems the first consultant has imprinted some wrong information with "we don't medicate adults" - maybe that doctor doesn't but plenty of others do. Also labelling him as a mild case and telling him that he seems to be managing well is probably because your partner can present well when he 'needs to' - he was possibly unconsciously seeking the approval of the consultant? - whereas the consultant clearly isn't overly familiar with the havoc and damage that untreated ADHD can do to adults and those around them. (Being told he is 'managing well' resonates with me because my husband was led to believe he couldn't possibly have ADHD because he had been able to keep a job. That was back in the early 1980s, years before I met him, and his life would have been radically different if only someone had not brushed the idea away because of superficial appearances).
Getting to specifics of what you might actually do that might improve matters, all I can offer is what I did:
1/ I read as much as I could about how ADHD manifests. I went through many, many books and articles, but in the end I still keep these around: 'Healing ADD' by Daniel Amen and 'Change your brain, change your life' also by Amen (we have no connection or experience with the Amen clinics, I just purchased copies of those books and zeroed in on the parts I wanted. The titles are a bit sensational but the content is good). These books describe the possible appropriate combinations of meds which Amen feels might fit different ADHD subtypes and that has matched up with our actual experience. If you look these up on Amazon you can see the reviews and also see well-reviewed books that are recommended there (warning, there are dozens, you can probably get many through a library if you prefer). Armed with this background, I went to step 2....
2/ I insisted on an evaluation by a psychiatrist specializing in Adult ADHD. I made it clear that a psychiatrist who did not list this as a speciality was not going to be considered - there are some psychiatrists who still think that children with ADHD 'grow out of it' and I wanted to forestall getting involved with one of those. In our case we could check psychiatrist specialities through our insurance website, maybe you can investigate that (I am assuming you're in the US, that might be wrong). So far as locating a psychiatrist, I don't think it matters in the long run who finds the psychiatrist or makes the first appt. Some might call it enabling to do it for him, but my own view was 'it's going to happen and if necessary I will make the call with him sitting next to me'. In fact he found the psychiatrist, made the call and set the first appt. So in summary I believe it's important that your partner sees a psychatrist first and not a psychologist or family doctor etc. That can always happen later but you can get ahead of the game by starting with a specialist who is at least aware of latest research and medication options.
3/. After the first appt, which I did not attend, he came home with a diagnosis and a prescription (Ritalin). Here was the first minor setback. He was very happily on Cloud 9 with Ritalin, experiencing clarity and 'increased volume of thoughts' while I watched him turn into an abrasive short-tempered monster in crowded stores and refused to go out with him if he didn't stop taking the magic pills, which led to a blowup - you can guess how that went :) The next prescription was for Adderall. After adjustments to dosage and adding anti-anxiety meds we were really getting somewhere... (Keep in mind that about 30% do not respond to the stimulants used as typical first-line treatments and that some experimentation with meds might be needed - and that can take time and effort - this is where a psychiatrist who understands ADHD in adults can be worth more than their weight in gold since everyone is different).
4/ ... but with diagnosis there came elation followed by a slump into depression and guilt ('how could I have done all those things to people', 'my life could have been different if someone had diagnosed me before', 'my brain is broken, I'm useless', 'I'll never change, you should just leave', and so on). At this point there is no short-cut, he has to work through it. So if you get this far, you might need:
(a) patience - for example - he cannot learn to plan his and your financial future overnight like switching on a light. He will, very probably, always have some level of executive processing deficiency but right now neither of you really know what he can do and what he can't. If successfully treated then he should be able to have more constructive dialogs with you so that you can better determine how to tackle finances, projects, work, and how or even whether to go forward together.
(b) determination to keep moving forward, for yourself if not for him. Be clear where your boundaries are, clear what you need from a relationship, don't allow him to get away with things 'because he has ADHD so he can't do a,b,c...z'. He can do a great deal if he wants to. ADHD is an explanation for some things, but it's not an excuse for retreating from the world or for not developing alternative methods or strategies. Stick to your boundaries and keep a clear sense of self. Regarding his defensiveness - it may be slow going as he's probably been polishing and feeding it since childhood. In part it may be a reaction to sensory overwhelm and to sheer overload, and in part it may come from his feeling that other people have always thought that he is inadequate or a failure and so he's developed avoidant or defensive responses in order to convince himself that he's not as 'different' as he really suspects. There will be steps forward and steps back. Be relaxed, but be determined not to go backwards (by going backwards I mean letting the ADHD diagnosis slip quietly into the past and reverting to old patterns that he dictates). This should get easier over time as long as he is willing to do the work to understand that his past doesn't define his future.
(c) you need to check that his psychiatrist is getting accurate feedback. The drugs can be powerful magic and your partner may not be able to accurately perceive the effects though he might (should) notice if he is less or more angry, speeding, more depressed etc and should be able to articulate that. As an example my husband didn't immediately understand what I was talking about when I told him the Ritalin was affecting him badly because he was very happy with his new 'clarity of thought'. When he took it at work he eventually came to realize that if he didn't stop he was going to explode, thump somebody and probably get fired - he works in a pressurized job environment where a great deal of frustration just has to be handled diplomatically. Hopefully your partner will listen to your views on the effects of his medications and will undertake to relay that to the psychiatrist. If necessary (eg he can't remember what he was supposed to say) write a note and tell him to go into the office holding it and either read it out or hand it over!
(d) a sense of humor, often useful but I do seriously mean that continually focussing on all the Very Serious Bad aspects of ADHD and it's Detrimental Effect on Relationships, and continually performing postmortems on all the bad experiences in the past just as soon as his meds appear to be working would probably be a (very) bad thing. He may not say so but your partner probably does feel bad about what has gone wrong, but he has no idea what to do and the frustration builds until he erupts. Also make allowance for miscommunications, some amusing and some definitely not. He may interpret things differently with medication, and you might need to relearn your reactions too (example, I suddenly realized that my husband was suddenly remembering events that prior to meds he'd always claimed he'd forgotten or that they happened differently. So when one of those occasions was brought up in conversation, I was already primed to react with 'how can you not remember' and suddenly he was recounting things perfectly, it was disconcerting at times)
A final point going back briefly to the evaluation by a psychiatrist - my husband was reluctant at first, partly from fear and partly from avoidance of 'difficult' subjects. I crystallized my arguments down to "If you had a chance to make your life happier, wouldn't you take it?" and "What if I'm right and it is ADHD and the medication works?". In the end he saw the logic :) Or maybe he was just worn down. But like many men he likes to 'fix things' and so the idea of taking action eventually appealed to him. (On the other hand maybe I should just put it down to the impulsivity of his brand of ADHD). In your partners's case he really seems to be inching forward insofar as he has referred to ADHD a few times - maybe he needs some help getting unstuck and some reassurance that you will not reject him out of hand if he is diagnosed (which for him will be a life-changing irreversible event).
I'm short of time but hope something here helps. To summarize, you're not crazy, you've articulately identified something that might be ADHD and, if that is really at root of what is going on, then there are concrete avenues to try if you're both willing. He will never be cured but he can move forward if he wants to enough. I'm sorry no-one responded yet to your post - hopefully this reply will make your post more visible and others will chime in. Good luck.
An excellent
Submitted by NLKohlenberger on
Silverlight,
Sunlight has written an extremely thorough and excellent response to your post here. I truly don't have a whole lot to add. I hope a lot of readers read what she has written It is very educational.
What I will say is that I do hear what seems like ADHD in your partner, and what might be considered the typical symptom/response/response dynamic that Melissa Orlov talks about in her first book, The ADHD Effect on Marriage, which I would suggest you read as soon as you can. What it describes is how a symptom, on the part of the ADHD partner, can elicit a response from the non-ADHD partner (anger, nagging, a need for control, etc.), and then the ADHD partner then has a response to that. And it becomes a vicious cycle of continuous symptom/response/response behaviors until the relationship begins to feel like it is in total break-down.
The first line of defense to stopping the cycle is, as Sunlight has suggested, to get an accurate diagnosis by a qualified doctor who knows about ADHD. Getting the diagnosis and potentially getting on medications is the first step. From there, the ADHD partner needs to manage their symptoms, something Melissa goes into more detail about in the book. She and I have written another book called The Couple's Guide to Thriving with ADHD, which takes the whole topic and goes into more depth. Another book that is very helpful for general education on ADHD is Driven to Distraction by Dr. Edward Hallowell. All of these books can be quite helpful in guiding you towards some level of understanding, and hopefully some relief.
I hope your partner is willing to look more deeply into the ADHD. Knowledge and treatment management are so very important in moving a relationship forward.
Thank you Nancie
Submitted by SilverLight on
The cycle you describe is exactly how things are. I have stepped back so many times and given up on things I want and need over the years, this compromise has resulted in my current period of real stress and sadness, frustration when I am with him, but sadness and grief in my own right. All things he cannot see, appreciate and if I want to talk about them and move on, he gets defensive, so personally I feel I am torn in two and need to move forward.
I need to grieve what I have let go of for this relationship, how I have adapted to it and indeed how I have changed as a person over the years, because of it and also natural progression. That's the other aspect, he doesn't seem to grow or really change and life is a bit stuck, whilst I grow and change and can't share it, there is an even bigger hole between us and I feel the relationship is really just functional and not really meeting my needs in any way.
He is unwilling or able to see that any of this affects me, he simply cant or doesn't, so I do wonder whether he will ever explore the relationship challenges of adhd. I am definitely trying for an assessment and diagnosis to see how this might focus progress and problem solving but right now, bar dragging him to the appointment, I am not sure he will go. I don't feel 100% sure of our future, so it seems a step to far to MAKE him do this, although I am trying through communication.
This is so hard.
Thank you Sunlight
Submitted by SilverLight on
Thank you, your advice is much appreciate and I think I have started on the first couple of steps many times and then not been able to remain calm and in order to keep my sense of self, I have detached and slipped into denial I guess. Not so this time, I am very clear that I am suffering and not coping with the lack of stability, direction and care within my relationship and something has to change. I have continued to raise the topic of ADHD when I believe the 'symptoms' are getting a prime position in conversations, decisions or life in general. I have attempted to remain clear in communicating that it is not HIM but a set of symptoms that he can learn to manage and get help to do so.
He is swinging from responding positively, to active denial and blaming me (verbal attacks at how I should change this and that) to convincing me that he knows how to manage it - I have pointed out that perhaps he does, but we are not having a relationship and the relationship is stressing him and causing symptoms which is neither of our fault. He cannot communicate, lots of what he says, he forgets, he cannot be there for me yet he wants me to support what I now see as a fairly isolating and unusual way of living - I am able to compromise to accommodate him, but realise I have compromised way too much and cant offer him what he needs (perhaps if the symptoms calm down we will both decide we are not compatible, with or without symptoms) I feel very sad about this and get confused because he begins to hyperfocus and 'dream' again - but in reality we share very little values and goals, it seems his whole life plan is to 'beat' the symptoms and make them work for him, although admirable it doesn't really offer anything for me and the support for my needs of stability, planning etc are not tolerated.
We are in the UK and here we need to go through our doctor and get a referral or get a private assessment, last week I gathered information about options and routes and have presented them to him. Today he is angry and again saying the answer lies with me accommodating him and he will be better. Does that mean I have to have another discussion about finances, which he engages in, positive steps planned, only for him to get overwhelmed at the first step, feel attacked, lash out, feel low self esteem, take himself off for hours and come back meek and mild like a wounded child. Really, this is the sad situation, he is fighting with himself, trying so hard, but in my view it isn't focused or useful and only making things worse.
So, where I stand is that unless he begins to see the impact his behavior is having on me and takes action for himself, me and the relationship, I will be leaving. This is not an easy thing to consider and I have no timeframe but really, life is stuck and this relationship offers words and nothing real - the problems we have between us mean all trust has gone from me and I am wary. I have no more energy to try things out, only to have them all go wrong in someway - usually because they only benefit him at the end of the day. I have really noticed how much I have changed and compromised and I dont like it and I feel quite miserable, I can only really focus on this in the long term - I am burnt out and burnt.
I hope he might try a way forward with me - the sad thing is, that if we split, I feel almost certain he will move on and not really process it - because he can't.If things do move forward together, I will be sure to keep in mind the other tips - things I do feel I have employed but really cant keep them up at this point.