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Submitted by Will It Get Better on Sat, 06/25/2022 - 14:46

How do you think you'll feel ten years from now if the dynamic you describe above does not improve? How about if the dynamic gets significantly worse? (that may not seem possible but, believe me, it can). You are accepting being relegated to being the 'Pit Crew' wherein all problems become yours to solely address regardless of who created them and, somehow, your 'wants and needs' are never recognized (nor achieved). It is not fair (and never will be) but it is real.

If a friend related the above reality to you what would your recommendations be?

Thank you for your input

Submitted by LahLah on Sat, 06/25/2022 - 15:06

I agree, I've already thought, this can NOT be my LIFE now. This can NOT be how things will be from now on! I would likely go crazy and be depressed if it remained or got worse but I stayed.
That's why I'm so glad he is seeking help, which seems a huge step in the right direction, esp compared to those who are diagnosed YEARS later or aren't as willing to seek treatment.
He started the meds, and he needs to take actions. He needs to do MORE. A LOT more.

Warning- TMI back story about ME and relationships, and the current.

We're engaged, but we haven't set a date, and I don't plan to until/unless I feel more confident and things DO improve (and pray they don't again just go downhill after marriage).

I've had other serious relationships that crumbled, including a divorce after a short marriage- good guy, but emotionally lacking (ptsd?) and the relationship felt one-sided as soon as we were committed, but then he said my not wanting kids was a Deal Breaker, so we agreed to a divorce. I had told him b4 I didn't want kids, but maybe open to adoption, he said he 'thought i'd change my mind' and he wanted to try to have his own kids before considering adoption down the road).

A couple years after him, I lived with a guy after we dated only a couple months, who was recently divorced, was all rainbows and romance, until we moved in together (because he wanted to and I was afraid he'd dump me if I said no-- DUH red flag, I'm an idiot). Then, light switch, his true side came out. He was an emotionally abusive narcassist. He went from complimenting me and being sweet, to putting me down, making fun of me, critisizing me, accusing me, and was paranoid/jealous, possesive, and had a bad temper. I tried my best to keep things how he liked, not complain or protest, and try to stay happy and smiling and compliant, it failed. (Not that it was sustainable, but at that point in my life I thought, the problems with my relationships must be ME, I've got to try!! Even though I also knew in the back of my head, THIS ISN'T HEALTHY.) He was still getting mad all the time and yelling at me. Yet, he tried to push getting engaged and got mad when I said I didn't want to rush it. He told me he'd get me a nice solitaire ring, I said that's not really my style, he said 'you'll like it'. He surprised me and walked in to a jewelry store at the mall once and tried to get me to look at rings (so awkward!). I learned his Father had been abusive, verbally and possibly physically to the wife (he suspected his dad hit the mother a few times when he was growing up), and realized he may have unrealized traumatic patterns he's repeating. He then started "therapy, for me", and it seemed even worse. I left. I felt so free and happy, moving in to my apartment again and leaving that toxic environment.

Dated another guy I kept making the mistake of dating AGAIN over the years. We've known each other a long time. Gave it the longest shot we have before (2 years). He barely tried, he was lazy and selfish and totally oblivious, so I ended it. When I did, he admitted he always considered me a 'flight risk' and 'no way would he consider marrying me until/unless we lived together awhile', which we also hadn't even discussed. I broke it off with him every single time we tried, but I kept having to go back to my "comfort zone", him, to re-learn why we wouldn't work. Flight risk? No wonder he didn't try. He didn't even show emotion when I broke up with him.

I won't get in to other past relationships, other than to say they didn't start out the gate well, as my first serious bf was in college (whom I met shortly after a traumatic experience*, that sadly a lot of women also experience esp during college) and I was in a bad place mentally when I fell for him, and he treated me like s*. Lied constantly, couldn't hold a job, didn't finish college, lived at home, did drugs (one of many things he lied about), jealous/possessive... I was an idiot. He was my first 'real' relationship and love and I had severe denial and excuses for why he treated me how he did, until I finally broke it off for good. And he had given me a promise ring and we talked about getting married.

Now my current fiance. I tried to do it right. After we discussed moving in together, I was excited! But it was also a little sooner than I maybe preferred, but it made the most sense with both our situations. He proposed- I was super surprised, as he had said and we agreed neither of us wanted to rush that, but of course it is thrilling, and he said it was to help show me he's in it for real, not just moving in together for who knows how long and maybe he will/won't.
Again, we haven't set a date. He has brought it up, 'eventually we'll have to set a date'. I just smile. We don't need to rush that, and I WON'T, unless/until things solidly improve.

And I truly, really deeply pray, we can be one of the success stories.
I fell for him, I was so comfortable with him, I like his parents and he likes mine and, I don't want to feel any additional pressure due to the kids but fortunetly they like me too.
But it all felt it flipped, and I finally saw HIM when we moved in together, like my biggest fears coming true about what may go wrong vs right.

Your comment is a good point. I don't disagree.
But I also don't want to "call it" yet. I hope to God it WILL improve, or def not get Worse.

I would hold off on marriage

Submitted by 1Melody1 on Sat, 06/25/2022 - 14:50

Honestly, I would not get in any deeper yet. Look back at how many times in your post you wrote, "he SAYS he'll xyz ..." And how often you followed it up with the fact that he's made no move to follow through. As it stands, you are taking care of everything, including HIS children. That should at least be a joint task with him taking the lead. You should be able to have people over. You deserve a clean space. You deserve promises kept. You deserve to foresee financial stability as a unit.

He IS starting to do the work by pursuing medication and that motivation came from him, which is incredibly promising. However, I would suggest that you ensure he is on meds that work well and seeing a coach weekly/biweekly (AND implementing the changes) before you actually tie the knot. That means him going through the boxes, taking the lead with the kids, spending quality time with you, interacting kindly, making an income, etc (these are basic expectations!). Once he SHOWS you for a LONG period of time that he can do all these things, only then would I commit. Honestly, with the benefit I have of hindsight, I'd also move out if there while he does all this. Moving out while he gets his life together would show him you're serious about needing follow-through and would also give him more motivation to improve. It will also let you see if he can really do it. For context, my 20 year marriage ended a year and a half ago. When I met my husband, he had also been gainfully employed for many years. He was kind. We had quality time. He changed similarly to what you describe. My ex husband has been now doing his pet project (effectively unemployed) for a decade. He doesn't parent. He doesn't clean. He doesn't keep commitments. If there's a way to let someone else do the grunt work, he will take it. I really would love my misery to be a cautionary tale for you. Your guy is showing you who he really is right now. Believe him. I really do feel like there is hope there with the meds. He seems to see the ADHD, but that doesn't mean he'll adequately address it. Just be so careful with your future and your money and your heart. You are clearly an amazingly kind person. Don't be afraid to put yourself first. ♥️

I totally agree

Submitted by LahLah on Sat, 06/25/2022 - 15:15

Thank you for the kind words and suggestion. I agree with your advice - to wait! - and thank you for sharing! I'm so sorry your marriage is, let's be honest, what I fear would happen to me and want to address NOW before we tie the knot! (And then just have to hope it doesn't go right back after we tie the knot!).
You did not deserve the mental hardships you had to endure. No one does in any bad relationship.
I hope you have been able to find much more happiness now.
With the suggestion of ME moving out until - I have heard that suggestion before.
But, I left my apartment, we signed a 2 year lease, and we're splitting rent and utilities.
If I up and moved out, I would legally, and in my mind still feel the need, to pay my half.
And I can't afford this + another place; I wouldn't feel right trying to expect him to do it all himself temporarily. So I'm not sure how that could ever be a viable option for me, down the road, if I did consider it, unless I stayed at a friends for a week ~ but that short of term wouldn't help either. So IDK.
He switched his med yesterday, is listening (IDK how often) to an ADHD strategies book, and keeps SAYING things he wants/needs to do... I'm hoping only giving him 3 months is just too short/soon.
AND as long as the ATTITUDE is adjusted. He's been a bit better since I had my melt down. He still says some statements or has reactions that aren't cool. All relationships have bumps...
And I hope with my therapy, and our 1 session we'll get to do together, and maybe if I can figure out how we can do couples therapy...
Sounds like WAY TOO MUCH for a guy I'm ENAGAGED to versus married, I don't deny it!
But I don't want to give up 2 years in 2, 3 months. I hope there's hope. I'm not ready to leave, yet.

Hi LahLah

Submitted by sickandtired on Sun, 06/26/2022 - 10:13

I can totally relate to where you are now. I decided to leave a relationship that was very similar to yours. My ex boyfriend had just recently been in a previous relationship. He came on strong when he met me, wanted to move in quickly. Like a naive love struck fool, I let him move into my house. He quit his job 2 months later, and NEVER worked again during our relationship. He got more moody and critical of me as time went on. The only difference it seems is that your guy has kids and mine had dogs. The dogs quickly became my total responsibility as he didn’t have a dime literally to pay for their many vet bills or their food. I happily took care of that for the sake of the pups. Then he got jealous of the dogs, saying I cared more about them than I did him. He saw no problem in leaving them weeks at a time alone at the trailer he lived in before I let him move in with me. He was VERY messy. A true hoarder. My nice home quickly became filled with his junker motorcycle parts, bags of old clothes, you name it.... and yes, he promised he would go through them and sort out only the important things to keep. That never happened either. I had to pay for his many dental bills, the property taxes on the little piece of land he owned where he was trying to build s house all by himself. Instead of working on his house, he abandoned it for years and started doing projects around my house. I thought that was nice until the problems began with his various projects. Many things went half done, with tools laying about in the living room on my kitchen counters, everywhere. Later many of these things had to be redone by professionals because of poor workmanship and danger of fire from incorrect electrical work he did. I had to get all of these things done after I threw him out because just like your guy, he didn’t want “strangers” in our home. He thought he could do anything just by “researching” it on the internet. He even thought he could represent me in court instead of an attorney because he had “read up on it” (he barely got through high school). He got more moody, and more controlling and angry as I pushed back on these lofty ideas he had. I thought I could help him with his myriad of emotional problems... he had no friends, was estranged from most of his family, he hated his parents. All of these things were HIS problems, but I took them on for him due to his constant complaining and anger. Nothing ever made him happy. I would plan trips because he wanted to go certain places but never was interested in the work it takes to make reservations, map out an itinerary, etc. So I did all of that and he would end up unhappy during the trips regardless of how much I tried to get him involved in scheduling things he wanted to do.

When you are logged in, you can click on any members name and see all of their posts Please look back at some of the struggles folks on this forum have been through. Financial ruin, children and pets left unsupervised in dangerous situations like a swimming pool, etc. You are naively walking into a nightmare I’m afraid.

I am trying to give you a crystal ball into the future of what you can expect living with a guy like this. I put up with this for over TEN YEARS, and he only got worse. He had an EBay addiction and was constantly spending my money on parts for his many unfinished projects that littered our home. It was horrible. I fell because of his procrastination, and he had no empathy at all for me when I had two broken bones. He said me falling ruined our lives and he was actually angry at me! I had to do a lot of soul searching to understand WHY I continued to enable him. I read all of your posts about your previous relationships, and I think you need to do some soul searching too. There ARE wonderful healthy, happy, reliable guys out there who would feel so lucky to find a compassionate girl like you, but you will never meet them if you are stuck with your current guy. I’m so happy you haven’t married him yet. Please read the stories here about how miserable almost all of us are (or were on my case). According to the many many stories on here about what it’s like to be married to an adhd person, it seems that they seem to totally depend on their spouse after that wedding ring goes on and they feel like they don’t have to try any more. It definitely gets worse with age too. You don’t want to raise his kids for him without his help do you??? You can see how checked out he is from his little girl’s life.

Please read our histories and just count how many happy relationships you see here. They are as rare as hen’s teeth.

I want to address another thing you said about not wanting to waste your 2 years you have invested in him. Dr Phil said that the only thing worse than a bad 2 year relationship is one that is 2 years and one day. Please let that sink in.

I’m sending you a huge hug. I know this is incredibly hard for you, when all you are really seeking is an equal partner who will love you.

Be creative

Submitted by adhd32 on Sun, 06/26/2022 - 12:10

If you can't leave, move into the 2nd bedroom and live like roommates. Show him that you mean business. Stop worrying about what he thinks and do what's best for you!! Stop making excuses why things cannot be changed and work around what can be changed. What's his plan to pay bills once his savings is gone? Does he have one? What's your plan if he doesn't? Stop hoping things will change, have a plan for yourself and share it with him and tell him it isn't open for discussion. Unfortunately from your history it seems as though you have no boundaries, that needs to change TODAY. You will see how he values you when you stop enabling him, expect push back from him when you stop. Giving up a 2 year relationship is far smarter than many more years of this life. ADHD never goes away, it must be managed by the ADHD person. Consider that he may not ever want to put in the daily effort to get and keep things on track.. He is already showing you who he is plus he ignores his children, especially his daughter. That is a massive red flag.

ADHD32 is right!

Submitted by sickandtired on Sun, 06/26/2022 - 12:37

Using your 2 year lease as an excuse to stay is dangerous for your future. You can always move in with a female roommate and split the bills. He can also advertise for another roommate to help him pay his bills. He survived ok before he met you, and he will do so again. It’s very easy for him to just let you do everything for him because you are willing to do so.

I’m curious what are the reasons for his divorce?...since you are close with his mom, maybe she might give you some clues. Also... how long after his divorce or separation did he start a relationship with you???

Why are you generalizing

Submitted by Jack hoppet on Tue, 06/28/2022 - 14:00

Why are you generalizing people with adhd like that not everyone in adhd in a marriage is like this

Generalizing

Submitted by LahLah on Tue, 06/28/2022 - 14:11

Hi Jack, You bring up a good point. For myself, I will add a lot of my statements are generalizing what I am experiencing and how I perceive it, and how I (now) am starting to learn and realize a lot of it is also commonly related to ADHD. But just as ADHD comes with common symptoms that can be identified and treated, it does not mean every single person with ADHD will experience it or behave the exact same way. Same for non-ADHD individuals. However, it can be easy to see patterns and compare one experience to another, even though it does not mean they are the exact same, and the ADHD and non-ADHD person should take care to focus on their own behavior and actions and reactions, as well as try to understand their situation and partner, and that one solution(s) or problem(s) for one person or couple won't necessarily be the same solution(s) or problem(s) as another.

Ahem.

Submitted by AdeleS6845 on Tue, 06/28/2022 - 19:43

Sam Bamiteko, is this you?

Sigh.

Time for you to stop being a door mat

Submitted by adhd32 on Sun, 06/26/2022 - 11:19

Work with your therapist to set boundaries. Honestly, at 37 years old you are wasting your life and sacrificing your health while he happily lives as he pleases..in filth and hoarding with someone (you) cooking, cleaning, caring for HIS children. Not bad from his angle. What's he doing for you? What's in it for you? Can you live like this for the rest of you life? Medication is good but therapy and coaching are needed to address his poor coping and time management skills. You will never be able to do enough to make him happy. You are enabling him. Why? Work with someone to find out why all of what you posted has been acceptable to you. What would you advise your sister or best friend in this situation.. You cannot rescue him, he needs to change by himself. No amount of support (enabling) will ever get you back to where you were in the beginning. He survived before you met him, he can survive if you leave. You are not his household help, value yourself worth and move on, you are too young to waste your life on someone who doesn't value you. There is no magic solution, ADHD never goes away, management of the symptoms is his responsibility. You can accept this life but you cannot fix him.

A Reply to Replies 59472-44

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 06/26/2022 - 17:23

Thank you so much for your feedback.
It's kinda freaky how very similar my story is to yours, even down to things like 'he said he wouldn't bring/create a mess' and 'he didn't like strangers in the house' !!
I am in awe (and disbelief).

I did feel I should also say, after my morning- obviously my story is one sided, because I'm the one writing it. I try to give him some credit or not be too one-sided, but not give him too many excuses either.
There are lots of ADHD-like examples and disappointments I could add, but even that said, I don't know if it makes enough of a difference, I wanted to give his side a small argument (or whatever you may call it).

- I already mentioned, but him trying medication, starting to listen to ADHD strategy books, and acknowledging it himself and being frustrated with it and wanting to improve it, seems a good sign (though he needs to do more and I need to see it improving things)
- To the question of his past marriage... red flags on red flags when looked at on paper. As we grew close, I learned more and more. We met about 5 months after they split, but they had grown apart long before. I can't imagine what the X went through, I wasn't there, but with his un-realized/acknowledged ADHD + kids + he had a drinking problem (which anyone can get or be predisposed to, but also common for ADHDers) - I do not envy her. She is already married again, and I hope they find happiness. We've met, the 4 of us went to dinner once and almost did again last week but I missed due to being sick, and I see her momentarily nearly once/week when she picks up the kids, and she and my fiance remain cordial for the kids and are frequently in communication for things with them. But back to my fiance, he/they struggled with their relationship, and his problem, for years, and no threat of hers to leave or attempts he made to resolve it himself ultimately worked. He tried to quit, but it took his world turning upside down, and the threat of not getting to see his kids anymore, that made it happen. And behind all this, they weren't aware of the ADHD as well. I met him after his world was upside down, he was much more emotionally open and humble. With the drinking problem out of the way he realized/recognized the ADHD that was always there. Trust me, when he told me about the drinking and the extremes it took for him to stop, my head said Run, my heart said, wow he went through a lot, and I'm glad he's telling me. He had hit rock bottom and came out the other side with hard hit self-reflection and perspective change. He also told me he used to be much more private & set in his ways and opinions, but his world-flip changed that. Major consequences, good rehab, and his family finding out about the issue (they had no idea)... also why he talks to his Mother daily in messages and they have frequent calls, and she likes to stay in touch with me because she was so freaked out she had 'no idea' what was happening before, she is glad to keep things open. (She's very sweet. Possibly enabling, and yes she keeps trying to find her son adhd help even after I told her my therapist said he has to do it on his own, and she encouraged I be patient and kind vs set stronger boundaries, but it did help me keep my head on when we first moved in together). He is open about things, he helps remind me to stay calm/try to let go when something gets under my skin (like work or family), and generally remains even tempered even when something would have upset me (external things). (But obviously with exceptions, as I felt he became generally towards me after we moved in together, with my sensitivity and his curtness, that has improved since our talk).

Some positive traits: a lot of you are familiar w/the guy being one way before and one way after moving in together or marriage, so I'll just mention since we've moved in together.

- Today I had a Severe Migraine. Unfortunately I get them nearly once/month. I have meds for them. They didn't happen this frequently my whole life, but started increasing in frequency several years ago and have become nearly monthly for maybe 4+ years. They usually knock me down, but I can take meds and sleep or lay down most of the day. But today's was ROUGH. I took my meds, plus goody's (it's "safe" to mix them, in moderation), plus tried my new "relief" band. *I only learned I can take goody's plus my prescription if needed after HE called the pharmacy for me one time over a year ago, to see if I could get any additional help, cause I had another really bad one. He brought me a thing of goody's to take after he asked. I asked for my relief band to try, but it was dead, so he found the charger and plugged it in for me near me. When time passed, I text him and he came right up to help me put it on. *I can't say for sure the relief band works yet, but it's a strong maybe that it helps. I finally passed out. I woke up feeling much better. And this evening he went out to pick up our dinners of choice again (2 stops vs 1).
- The day I had a melt down and he implored me to talk, he was very open and receptive and concerned. I think his attitude has changed some since then (trying to be careful he isn't snappy), but we need to keep working on it.
It shouldn't have to get to the point of a melt down for him to be openly listening and concerned.
- He told me during our talk that he may seem snappy if I try to talk to him while he's distracted. That doesn't make it OK, and I said as much. Esp when he's constantly distracted. He agreed. I think he's trying to be more aware of that when he replies to me. I've noticed now sometimes he might look irritated, but pauses, then responds.
When I read about the author's example of avoiding her husband while he's packing, I thought - that sounds familiar.
- I can get moody too. We're all human. I have my days. Sometimes I feel down or irritable. Of course, he never likes that, but it happens!
- I had a bad cold (?) a couple weeks ago (covid test claimed negative), and he asked if he could get anything to help. I didn't know what, so he went to the store and brought home a bag full of different meds. He'd check on me. He encouraged me to drink fluids. He asked if I should visit or talk to a clinic, as it kept lingering (even in to this week), and I did, but they said come back if its worse in a few days. It was annoying when after a couple days he said I should get out of bed, maybe I'd feel better... but he didn't just ignore me. He tried to help. And during a grocery run he and his daughter got me flowers and a get well balloon that she picked.
- He does help take my dog out, if I ask or sometimes on his own, and he loves her too.
- He is a computer genius, and I sort of work in IT too. He has helped me a couple times with projects where I lack skill in and need/want to learn more, but I've had a heard time learning it on my own. He has offered to learn it together/ do a project together, and that I can ask him any Qs any time I want if I need help. And so far, he has been true to his word. The couple times I've asked, he has helped. (It helps it interests him)
- He still frequently compliments me. He'll compliment my outfit, or say I look sexy, or thank me for being so sweet/thoughtful. He often tells me it's a bonus he finds me so attractive, bc he thinks Im smart and kind and fun and caring too. He'll thank me for making dinner if/when I do (including when the kids are here, and in front of the kids). When I'm disgusting he'll still say I always look beautiful (like when I'm sick, migraine, or just one of those days).
- He bought a manual mower for our tiny back yard space. He mows the lawn... usually 1-2, even 3 weeks after its due and after he's been saying he will/needs to for days. But eventually.
- I was again complaining about my airpods not charging and he told me about something I may want to buy. I said nah. He said OK, I'll get it for you if you want? I said ok. And he did, and he even plugged it in for me.
- It's not good this was only produced from an argument, but, one argument we had is that his clutter is taking over the garage and he was using the tiny driveway for both his vehicles. I had to park elsewhere. His reasoning was, he drives more (to pick up his kids at least once/week, usually for other errands too), & his cars are newer so it's nice to have them where we can see them, whereas I work remote and we no longer have to drive to each other to visit each other, so I wouldn't be driving as much. I didn't like it, but didn't push it at first. He was right. Until, it seemed he wasn't. After a time, and still driving, I said you know I'd like to use the driveway too. It caused an argument. He re-claimed his reasons. I pushed back, including reminding him he already took the basement and garage with the Stuff he wasn't supposed to bring over, and I pay half the rent, too! He conceded. I offered that we can take turns. He said no, I can park in the driveway from now on until he clears out the garage, and, it would also serve as a reminder to him to work on the garage. I said, OK then! And I've used the driveway since. He hasn't worked on the garage yet, but I'm enjoying using the driveway. He complained out-loud about having to go get, or drop things off then go park, his car once or twice, and I just ignore it. YEP, I understand it! But he hasn't tried to take back his agreement or argue for it. And if he does, he won't like the outcome.
- The maids visit again Friday. This isn't actually related. I just enjoy their visits, and he better hold to our last agreement that he will deal with it now. And I think he will. Cause he Better!
- A pro/con one. By a freak accident, he accidently broke my glass patio table when trying to put the umbrella in. He apologized and felt bad for it, and offered I pick any new table I want, a whole new set to include chairs if I wanted, he'd buy it. But then, he wanted to LEAVE the MESS. He argued, 'it's not liquid, it's not going anywhere, I'll clean it up tomorrow'. I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was Shocked by the reaction. The neighbor heard the noise of the break and offered a shop vac. He said no, he has one, but then told me he wasn't sure where it was in the garage. I said, broken glass would have also fallen on the downstairs patio and it needs cleaned up so we can still let the dog out. He argued, no way any fell through... (seriously?). So I went downstairs. Lots of broken glass pieces. I called the neighbor. I asked to borrow the shop vac. I got it from them. I started cleaning it up. The pro: He stopped me, said he didn't want anyone getting cut because of his mistake, and took it over and cleaned up the mess, and returned the shop vac when he was done. Once I found a new table, he paid for it as he said he would. We both really like it- it looks nicer than my old one (and isn't glass).
- When he goes to the grocery store or an errand, he almost always asks if I need something while he's out.
- Last night he needed to run an errand and said he would get himself food while out. He only wanted to go to 1 place, did I want anything from the place he was going to? I said no, unless you go to (my preference), I'll just eat something here. You get what you want. He texted me while he was out, 'I am going to go to (his preference), but I'll also stop by (your preference) if you still want it'. I said yes. And he did.
- I have a bug phobia. I will yell for him to help. While he'll still say really annoying comments like 'but they're good for catching other bugs' or 'they won't hurt you', I will just glare at him and say No. And he will rescue me.
- He lets me (mostly) decide the household temp. A small but big thing. He says he's flexible and knows I'm pickier, so generally leaves it to me.
- He likes to cuddle when we go to bed. We've admitted to each other, neither of us was as affectionate in former relationships. Our former couch-cuddling (that again happened last night after I just wrote he doesn't do it anymore), and curling up together to go to sleep. We skip occasional nights, mostly bc I have a hard time getting him to go to bed (another common ADHD thing!) and I'm tired so I roll over and say I'm going to sleep now please let me, but we usually do.
- When he knows he wants to stay up Really late, he'll sleep on the couch now, bc I wake up super easy and sometimes can't get back to sleep after. (It's a struggle to get to bed, but this is when he thinks he'll stay up well past midnight)
- He often walks by me on his way for more coffee and will give me a kiss. It's sweet. Sometimes I'm concentrating on something and he'll get right in front of my face, but I rather it annoy me sometimes than not have it happen at all.
- We watch tv together; we watch the same shows / he doesn't try to make me watching something I'd hate (not that I'm super picky). But he tries to have us both be entertained.
- We like to play an old school nintendo game together. It almost became a before-bed routine for awhile, but we haven't done it in a couple weeks. But we enjoy it.
- He doesn't prefer leaving the house/ being social and is introverted (and doesn't hang out w/friends), whereas I'm a social introvert, but he is Willing to do things with me, or if I tell him Yes I Want Him To Join please. (I don't super frequently either)
- He has to take lots of meds bc he had to have his thyroid taken out a few years ago. Sometimes his moods are affected by this (chemical imbalance) on top of everything else.

I've made another novel.

Thank you all so much again for your time and honesty. I appreciate having a place others can really understand my frustrations and disappointments and not say 'maybe it will get better' or 'you could always leave', but don't also understand it. Tips, advice, past and current experiences, give me things to really think about. And I appreciate the support.

Let me read your own words back to you:

Submitted by sickandtired on Mon, 06/27/2022 - 20:00

“he had a DRINKING PROBLEM, I do not envy her. She is already married again, and he also has kids, not my business, but I hope they find happiness. But for my fiance, he/they struggled with their relationship, and his problem, for years, and no threat of hers to leave ultimately worked.”

Please think about it and let us know how you might feel in 10 years, given his past behaviors.

He had a major problem

Submitted by LahLah on Tue, 06/28/2022 - 14:31

Sickandtired, you're right, I can't/shouldn't dismiss this as if it is not significant. It is.
I also didn't mention before I revised* my post that he did try to work on his issue before it all imploded - but too little too late. He didn't totally dismiss it and ignore her, but he failed to successfully remedy it and show signs for hope for too long.
He tried to keep a journal to log certain pains or issues he was experiencing and if it related to how much and how often he drank, and was then surprised to review his own logs. He talked to a therapist (perhaps not enough/not the right one and didn't give it enough of a chance). He tried one rehab place that was not successful for him. And despite his attempts and recognizing there was an issue, he may still not have fully accepted just how much it affected his partner and himself and how serious of an issue it really was.
Once his world went upside down, and with its consequences, he went to a different, successful rehab center, started new medications, and changed.
Now, it took him another 2+ years to realize there was still another problem he felt was holding him back. He told me multiple times while dating that he was starting to think it wasn't just drinking, there was something that keeps him from being able to do things how he wants to do them, and from focusing, which also may have contributed to the drinking problem itself. But, "even without the alcohol, now he thinks there was another underlying problem". I thought but didn't say, 'Sure, you procrastinate everything! You just need to work on stuff!' But I didn't think or know much beyond that at the time.
Maybe the lack of preparing for the move then having to have family help him, or his project's delay, or bringing his junk over here, etc, shook him up enough to realize he might want to talk to someone about it, and he told me he was starting meds for ADHD.
When he told me I said, 'OH..... yeah, that makes sense. Ok. Thanks for telling me. I hope they help.' And not long after, and after learning more, I advised 'they are supposed to help, but they're not a magic pill. A therapist/ ADHD coach/ other steps are also needed.' Which he needs to do/seek and continue to work on, himself.

from a wife of ADHD

Submitted by MelWifeOfADHD on Wed, 07/06/2022 - 12:06

If I knew my husband had ADHD before marriage (and I'd read enough about it), i wouldnt have married him.... more because in most cases the 'things' dont improve, if anything, they get worse. Even if that is due to having to put up with the same issues for longer. And it is hard to stop yourself from wondering what it might have been like to be with a non- ADHD husband.

The man you first met, who most likely swept you off your feet and was funny and charming (probably still is to new people/ friends), he wont be coming back after your novelty/ shiny-ness wears off for him. This sounds bitter. I think a lot of spouses on here come across that way. I think its just the way it goes.

I personally think the only way through is to lean into the ADHD, expect no improvements from them, expect to accommodate and change yourself, to have constant communication issues, maybe feel like you're going mad at times, walk on egg-shells.... and on the whole lead a pretty separate life. Only you will know what is right for you and what you want from life. ADHD is on a spectrum and people can put up with varying degrees. Also, it is co-morbid. It means it usually comes with some other condition, ranging from dyslexia to autism.... so that can bring other difficulties.

My advice is to firmly work out what your partner has before marrying him.... then do your research. My husband only started to reveal more of himself after we got married. Before then i'd been with him for 5 years and lived with him for 4.... that is how long he managed to keep some of his issues under wraps (like his anger, etc).

Also, do whatever suits you (even if it isnt the 'norm'). Need to live separately/ separate bedrooms? Separate bank accounts? Trips away from each other? Get a cleaner? whatever works!

If you had known…

Submitted by LahLah on Thu, 07/07/2022 - 12:50

I've read that multiple times now from others and I don't take it lightly.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

After a new ... revelation/issue/concern... was brought to my attention on Monday, my head has been spinning, to the point I had to turn it 'off'.
I'm in limbo. Between heaven and hell, both in reach but I can't tell which way I'm headed.
So I'm trying to go with the flow. Floating.
I told an old friend whom I poured my heart out to.. I think where I'm at is, having to see lack of improvement for more months. I'm not ready to leave. I'm not ready to accept that I went in the wrong direction again and shared my heart and saw a future together, that is doomed again. I can't leave before losing hope there's a future here and before it's really hammered in. If it comes to that, as it may, it will be painful and heart breaking and I don't know what I'll do. But at this point, I think I have to go through more pain, so I have no doubts if it would have gotten better or not.
I'll delay the wedding until / unless there's improvement. But I'll delay a decision to leave until hope is gone.
It's a sort of lose lose, unless a miracle happens.
But it's where I'm at.
Thank you again for your perspective and experience.

It's like looking in a mirror, Mel

Submitted by 1Melody1 on Thu, 07/07/2022 - 23:14

I just wanted to say that reading your comments is like reading a diary of my marriage (now over). Our experiences, timeline of disintegration, coming to terms journeys, and coping strategies are all virtually identical. I'm sorry for where you're at and admire how clearly you see it all.

Thanks for your insights.

Submitted by Exhausting on Tue, 09/13/2022 - 19:27

Thanks for your insights. So much of what you say resonates with me. Hindsight is a powerful thing. If only I had known about ADHD when I met my ADHD husband 16 years ago. I was so naive, even in my 40s when we met. He was all the things that you say they'll be in the beginning .. engaging, funny and energetic. He shared stories of a varied and interesting life. BIG stories - I was like a deer in the headlights. He'd been married twice before (mmm). I felt sorry for him because of what those women had done to him .. how he'd been treated!!! (I didn't click that he was actually the common denominator and that they had no doubt also been miserable). He showed the angry outbursts during the early days of our relationship, however I was so swept up in the glow of new love that when he explained it away as "passion" I believed him and accepted it.

Within 12 months of meeting him, I'd left my great job, moved interstate with him, bought a business together and was on a fast path to disaster. I can now see that everything we did from then on was to satisfy things HE wanted to do in life. I had moved away from family and friends. I thought I was embarking on something exciting and courageous by moving interstate and getting my own business, but very quickly I became isolated and dependent on him.

Ironically, he seemed incapable of doing the basic things .. filling out forms, having conversations on the phone with suppliers, banks or whatever. He was so reliant on me for simple life tasks, that I started to wonder how this was possible for someone who had done so much in his life. Then it dawned on me that he had needed people in his life to support him and that his past wives had likely also been a crutch as I was. It really is true that ADHD people struggle with the management of time, organisation of things, getting things started, getting things finished, communicating and emotions.

Yet, I NEVER do anything right (never have). If things don't work out the way he thinks they will, I have either conspired against him or have done something on purpose for it to fail so I can hurt him. He sometimes seems to have grandiose ideas and expectations (narcissist? not sure). His sense of reality often seems skewed, yet I am the one that is entirely out of touch with reality.

Our business did not go well which was not helped by the GFC. We ended up shutting the doors and lost a lot of money. The amount of hours and time I spent dealing with banks and suppliers to avoid bankruptcy on a number of fronts was unreal and utterly exhausting. Still to this day I get told that if I had done things differently we wouldn't have lost the business. HOW do you possibly reason with someone that looks at life through this type of lens?! It is completely soul destroying.

Fairly early on in the piece, I realised something just wasn't right. Finally, I came to the conclusion that there was a good chance he had ADHD because of all of the traits mentioned above, and more. After an initial diagnosis of depression and medication which did nothing, I finally convinced him about the suspected ADHD (I'm sure he knew something wasn't right) and a psychiatrist ultimately diagnosed combination type ADHD. Medication has started but this has been a bit up and down getting to the right dose. It has helped with his focus, but hasn't helped with the emotional outbursts which are ongoing.

I think I have spent about ten years thinking how I can leave and still come out with something for myself. Our money is tied up in activities and "investments" that he has wanted all these years, yet when we met I was the one with the house, the good job and money in the bank (as a single person who had never married so had done all of that myself). I will be lucky to leave with much, but I will have the peace and calm I now crave daily.

Recently I told him our relationship had deteriorated and I thought we should separate so both of us could move forward. I have never wanted to blame his ADHD as I don't think he can help a lot of his behaviour, but I have realised I need my life back. His reaction was like someone with Borderline Personality Disorder ... the complete sense of abandonment brought about threats of burning the house down, leaving me with nothing etc etc. So co-morbity .. yep, I think it definitely exists.

Good luck with your situation. It's clear from the many posts I've read that the behaviour displayed by ADHD sufferers is common, but the spouse suffer too as a result.

I have made my choice .. I will be leaving and will be seeking professional support to guide me through the process safely.

Take care.

Nobody should have to live like this!

Submitted by sickandtired on Mon, 07/11/2022 - 10:32

Nobody deserves to live in such a one-sided relationship. You signed on because you thought you had found love, security, and an equal partner where you can have a give and take in a reciprocal relationship. When you feel sick or sad, you expected your partner to understand and support you.... to be your best friend.

It seemed too good to be true during the hyperfocus phase, which dries up quickly and never returns, leaving you with only hope that you can go back in time and be new and shiny to him again. You can’t go back to that time. It dissipates and leaves you with all of the responsibility, all of the blame, raising an angry entitled teenager type of man who can’t take the least bit of criticism or direction without blowing up in anger and blaming you. If you try to control him or tell him you’re unhappy, you are the bad guy.... while his misperceptions, procrastination, and cruel words create a miserable situation for you. A partner is not a project for you to observe and work on to improve him. You can’t remodel a person like you can remodel a house. You can’t be his therapist and his partner too. All you can do is hang on to the chaotic rollercoaster... or after enough bumps and bruises, you finally realize you need to get off of the rollercoaster to survive. I decided to leave after his procrastination caused me to fall and break two bones in my leg and severely sprained my other ankle. I was trying to bring in tropical plants in large pots when he kept promising he would bring them inside for weeks, but he never did. It was November 22, and the first frost was going to be that night. After asking him “one more time” to please bring them inside, he instead fed the dogs inside. It was getting dark, and I decided to just do it myself. I fell, I laid there for a long time, yelling for help, but he didn’t hear me he said, and he didn’t have ANY sympathy for me laying there on the concrete, but rather got angry, yelling “why didn’t you ask me to do this?!? I HAD asked him, multiple times for weeks! But my fall was MY fault, and he never missed an opportunity to blame me and shame me for falling, all the while taking MY prescribed pain pills because he felt so anxious and stressed by my fall. He kept yelling at me all that night in the ER and at home that I had “ruined his life” by falling. No empathy whatsoever. It was all about HIM, and it will always be all about him. Your needs are rarely considered..Being in a relationship should not be this frustrating, this difficult! You signed on to be a wife, not a lifelong caretaker.

No one should be treated like that

Submitted by LahLah on Mon, 07/11/2022 - 12:07

Oh my God...
That is so wrong. And I'm sorry.
All signs point to save myself and leave. More and more stories are blinking at me like neon lights shining in the window when you're trying to sleep. You want them to go away, to ignore them, to go on with your night, but they're in your face. But you can't turn them off and you can't sleep, but you can't get out of bed either, bc you're to exhausted to move, you can't.
Maybe a terrible analogy. But.
How about a deer in the headlights that freezes even though they're about to be struck? They stand there anyway.
Moving on.

And to make matters even more complicated...

I wrote this on another support group July 9.
All I can say at this moment is ... "I know. ... I know." But atm, I can't move. I'm stuck in the headlights.
And by the miracle of God, they'll actually miss me. But chances are, they won't, in the end. But I stand here like an idiot anyway.

********

I’ve posted twice before about my fiancé. We recently got engaged and moved in together and then he started taking meds for adhd and told me about it.

I didn’t realize it before we were engaged and living together, but when he told me, it made sense.

But then I/we started struggling. He seemed to change from before. Was rude and curt and wasn’t doing things he said he’d do.

I got a lot of feedback to leave him. That my future is bleek if I stay, bc a lot of people experienced exactly that.

But I talked to a therapist and got some tips / action plans for myself to try, and he recently made himself a goals list and reviewed it with me.

Things were looking up.

I felt more optimistic than I had since moving in together.

Then… the morning we were to leave to visit his parents, I found out he had been drinking. He had gotten drunk. For FIVE DAYS. I had had no clue.

He’s an alcoholic. I knew that going in, but I met him after he hit rock bottom and was sober. He was sober for 2.5 years.

Suddenly, when things were looking up, he “self sabotaged, as he always does” and snuck drinking for 5 days in a row, under my nose.

I found out, because he was drunk when he told me. He was crying and coughing and curled in a fetal position on our bed. I had no idea what was going on. Then I thought he told me he drank once, 5 days ago, and I was worried but wanted to be supportive. Then a few hours later it was clarified it was for 5 days straight, not once 5 days ago.

But he doesn’t think it’ll be an issue again. He didn’t even want to do it and doesn’t know why he did.

Yeah, NO, we’re not pretending that didn’t happen.

I made him a list of to-dos and time frames.

- He will attend AA at least once a month for the remainder of the year.

- He will take tests to prove to me, and keep himself accountable, that he hasn’t been drinking.

- He will (finally, we had already discussed for adhd) see a counselor/therapist.

He agreed. At the time.

I hear when we get back home from his parents he’ll get cocky and change his mind.

But he must do these things.

I don’t want to move out. I don’t want to break up. I don’t want to be in this situation. I’m only 3 months it flipped and has turned in to a surreal nightmare. I’m in deep water here. It’s too overwhelming to feel I can even save myself, yet, as I’ve done before in the past.

But he has to do the list.

Or we won’t work.

But my question is… aside from any obvious ones or mostly rhetorical ones…

His family was shattered when they found out about his drinking last time. They had been clueless. They had no idea. Until his x left him and he was forced to go to rehab.

Now they’ve continued to be concerned for him, but are proud of his progress, and his mother especially thinks he’s so lucky to have me in his life… she’s so kind, and cares for him and us.

He doesn’t want to tell anyone about this slip.

I found out, because he was drunk.

He doesn’t want anyone else to know. Yet.

I feel I’m betraying his mother, staying at her place and keeping this from her.

But I’d betray him if I told her.

But he betrayed everyone, including himself, by drinking.

Do I tell her?

Do I keep it between us and demand he follow my list and go from there?

I know ‘run away asap’ is also good advise, but atm I’m asking about keeping his secret and making him do steps to assure me of progress.

I’m not even sure what it’ll look like of he decides to refuse, other than an inevitable bad end.

For now I have to think he’ll do it.

So do I go ahead and keep it secret while we do?

*********

UPDATE

(Pasting comment I added below)

Thank you for your perspectives.

I decided to tell him to tell his family now, face to face, while we’re here.

But I started to internally panic. Short of breath, shaky… I have an issue with getting overwhelmed with emotion.

I went in to a bedroom and asked him to come. He asked what was going on. I was sitting on the floor.

I started crying. I said this will be hard … but I want him to tell his mother. Now. While we’re here.

He was concerned and said ‘this isn’t normal/ok/right’ (my physical reaction), and he gently protested. ‘It’d be easier as a phone call’. ‘Do we have to do this now, what will happen to the rest of the evening, what will my mom do’ etc.

I expressed it needed to be now, and I had sought advice and… it needs to be now.

He asked what I meant and I mentioned comments on a support group and he got defensive. ‘Random angry ppl online don’t know…’

But I cut him off. NO. NO. They’re not.

AND I also talked to two old friends who also dated alcoholics in the past. (I did. Only recently found out about one of them).

A few more protests. I said please.

He asked his mother to come in. Everyone else was conveniently outside.

He hesitated, but started. ‘(She) wanted me to tell you…. I relapsed. Last week. It was bound to happen. But I did.’ He went on to say he didn’t know ‘why’ and he didn’t enjoy it and he was going to follow my plan I said he needed to do (aa, therapist, hair lab tests for accountability) and he was open to other suggestions.

She took it surprisingly well (or at least in front of us).

And then he and I continued to talk, about other issues, after. It was productive and promising.

Thank you for the encouragement for me/us to address this Here and Now and the support. Thank you.

No trust

Submitted by sickandtired on Mon, 07/11/2022 - 12:50

If you don’t have trust in a relationship, you have nothing. So now since he hid his drinking from you he has to do an alcohol test to prove to you he’s not drinking at the moment because you can’t trust him. In addition to the ADHD diagnosis, he has proven that he is an out of control alcoholic. And he wanted you to help him keep his drinking relapse Secret from his mother. He’s basically training you to be an enabler. He’s pulling you in DEEPER into his dysfunction. Please wake up and ask yourself WHY you think this is all you deserve in a relationship. You did the right thing by making him confess to his mother, but you NEED to ask yourself “why don’t I think I deserve better treatment???” You are accepting him and all of this dysfunction so passively. I know as women, especially in my generation, we were taught to be polite and not rock the boat. You are being too nice. You are enabling him in a huge way. That has to stop. Remember how you said no amount of threats from his ex wife could get through to him until she took his children and moved away with them. You don’t even have that kind of leverage with him because you don’t have any children with him (and I thank God you DON’T). No amount of threats, rules, hurt feelings or crying from you will change him because it’s obvious to me that he is comfortable just as he is, and he’s found a gal who helps him maintain his maladaptive comfort zone, watches after HIS kids, works full time, pays for maid service to clean up his messes, so nice that you don’t “nag” him like his previous wife, doesn’t insist he get a job... Hell, he doesn’t even have to take a bath!!!See how EASY you are making his life for him??? Your life, on the other hand, is more stressful, you are unhappy in the hoard, and frozen and crying and going to therapy, having to test him because you’ve lost trust in him. How can you even consider marrying someone you can’t trust? He may or may not have been drinking in the past two years, but I guarantee you that he has the mindset of an addict and an alcoholic. Please google “dry drunk” to see what I mean. Nobody in true recovery would ask their partner to help hide his drinking from his family. The time when you first met him is the best it is ever going to be with him. The hoarding, rude behavior, procrastination on important projects related to his ability to contribute money to your household, and lack of proper hygiene (yuk how do you stand that?) are ALL reasons by themselves to seriously consider. You can’t just stand there passively like a deer frozen in the headlights and hope you won’t get hurt, you have to PUT YOURSELF FIRST. Otherwise, you will be a shell of yourself in a few years. I’ve been there and clawed my way back to a happy life after I left him. By the way, my fall happened in November of 2013.... I have a permanent limp, loss of strength in both legs and still experience pain from my injuries to my ankles that both have developed arthritis as a result of the injuries. Please take heed of all of the kind folks here waving red flags at you, telling you exactly what you can expect in the future.... Please don’t end up like me with lifelong scars from an unhealthy relationship.

You're Not Wrong

Submitted by LahLah on Mon, 07/11/2022 - 14:19

I hear you.
I respect your response and your advice.
I don't think you're wrong.
And I appreciate your trying to get me to move.

My current "plan" is to see him take actions where he said he would.
And sink if/when he doesn't. Then see if I can't get myself to swim and survive and move on.
Sink. Swim. Move out of the way and not get run over. Whatever fits best...

From my past experiences, and now this all crashing down so hard and fast, in only a few months...
I have to see it myself. I have to see it change and improve and him take the steps he needs to take for himself and me and his family.
If he doesn't... well we know it may be doomed, and I can't emotionally handle that reality right now. Right now, he must. I must see it.

YEP... yep.... yep.

Submitted by LahLah on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 12:05

Yep... as was warned to me was likely, he is still drinking. I could tell he was acting weird last night and asked. (Denied it. Said it was weird I was asking. Then acted upset I had to ask- like teary eyed.) This morning I followed him downstairs to see what he was doing and caught the garage door being opened. He said it was to check on the light. Nope. I found his stash in the garage.
I asked him to come outside. (His kids are still here until tomorrow). I held them up. He tried to say 'why is there some left in one?'. I pressed. He tried to deny again, very weak. I said I'm not an idiot, I know you drank last night, I saw you try to get in the garage, I know it's a knee-jerk response to lie but if you keep drinking and acting weird and acting mean and telling me I'M BEING WEIRD when I ask about it and lie to me, we're not going to work. I am not going to have your X's life. This is not going to be my future. You have to get help, and you have to be open and honest. I want to support you and I don't want to leave you, but I will have to for my own health.
(I know the statement isn't enough to force change, but it's the truth.)
He said what do I need to do.
I repeated what I said before (aa, therapist) and added get a new breathalyzer and anytime I say use it, you use it and don't argue.
He claimed to agree.
He's upstairs having a private call with his mother now. Bc of course I told her.
She will bring down the hammer more, with the threat of telling his X if he doesn't do everything we say, including frequent testing to prove he's sober, because she/they also have to consider the kids and their safety.

Yes, I see it. If I didn't before (I did, but I wanted to give it time). I will have to prepare for breaking off the engagement and changing my lifes direction. Accepting my new love is not healthy for me. We will see what happens in the next couple months, then I will need to make a decision. I know some people would advise just leaving now. That's probably the best course of action. But as before, I need to see it. But today did give me more... motivation?... of what I will likely need to do and to prepare for it vs just waiting and hoping and trying not to think about it.

So sorry he’s lying to you

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 12:23

I hate to be right about him, but at least now you can see that he has a serious problem. Alcoholism is a life long addiction, and it takes a LOT of consistent work for someone to find recovery. He’s spending his energy gaslighting you (saying you’re weird) and the lying is just unacceptable on sooooo many levels. He’s really craving the alcohol if he has to hide it around the house like that. It sucks that you and his mother have to be his conscience. He needs to go to AA meetings EVERY DAY for his own survival regardless of you two make it or not. So if you’re going to give him 2 months to shape up or you’re leaving I would start saving money and looking for other options like maybe a roommate situation if I were you. It really sucks to have to be like a police woman in your own home, finding the evidence, demanding sobriety testing, punishing him for his bad behavior. I guarantee you he will resent you for taking this role. My first husband was a sex addict and I caught him making dates online with many girls.... he was an airline pilot so he would get online, meet girls, go fly to their town and have bdsm sex with them and then come home and give me their std’s. I divorced him after 12 years of putting up with his lying and trying to gaslight me that I was crazy and paranoid. If your man is lying to you about drinking after only two months living together, he’s probably lying to you about a lot of other stuff. I’m proud of you for saying you will NOT be hurt like his ex-wife. Boy I’ll bet she could share some horror stories with you. I got to meet my ex’s ex mother in law from his previous marriage, and I shared with her about his cheating. She confirmed that he did the same thing when he was married to her daughter. In fact, he lied to me saying he was divorced when he was still married to her! He’s on his 4th wife now.... a very passive submissive evangelical Christian woman who I bet has no idea what BDSM sex even is.... but I guarantee you, he’s still into it, and is cheating on her right now. Im sure he’s happy having a meek person like her who doesn’t have what it takes to confront him with consequences for his bad behavior v the bitch he was married to before (me). He resented me for not taking all of his crap with a smile. I’m so glad I left him as well as my boyfriend I told you about previously. It wasn’t easy, I was seen as the bad guy breaking up both times, but later I met a wonderful loving man who is now my husband. If I had stayed with my chronically angry unemployed boyfriend, I would have lost the opportunity to meet the love of my life. We have been very happily married for 5 years. I’m hoping something wonderful like that can happen to you, but you first have to find the courage to get out of your comfort zone, face the fallout of the breakup, and set yourself FREE!!!

I'm Sorry, Too

Submitted by LahLah on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 14:12

I knew it was a risk, but I didn't forsee it happening. Or wasn't sure how it'd look and what I'd do..
I caught him again this week. We got back from his mother's a few days before. I was at an evening appointment out of town and came back late and noticed he was acting funny. Off. A little too chatty/distracted/intense.
When kids weren't around, I asked if he drank.. "of course not".
We went to bed and he covered his face and was teary and said he had to think about the fact I had to ask, because it's sad. He said I don't trust him. I said you don't get to say that, I get to ask you whenever I want. I pressed him, he wouldn’t talk about it. I was still highly suspicious. Next morning, I followed when we went downstairs I noticed he had opened the garage door, but acted like he was doing something else when he saw me coming. He tried to hurry me back upstairs w/him. I went down later & found his stash of vodka. Asked him to come downstairs to talk. I held it up. He denied it. "Why is there any left in that one?" I said I'm not an idiot, you were drunk last night, and this is what you were going for. "Yes." He apologized. I told him I want to support him, not guilt or shame him, but if this keeps happening- he keeps drinking and lying and acting weird or being mean, I am going to have to leave him, for my own health; that I didn't want to, but would have to if this keeps up. He said what do I want him to do. I said same we discussed before. AA. Therapist. Tests. He bought a breathalyzer & I'm going to go to his first aa session w/him. & he will find a therapist. I will test him when I want. His breathalyzer won't get here until tomorrow so I went & bought one last night. He said it was 'kind of insulting.' I said 'huh.' (Not going to honor that comment). Not long after he told me he appreciates my support, he doesn't know where he'd be right now if I wasn't around, and thanked me for being so awesome, if possible he likes me even more than before. This morning when I told him to test before taking his son out for breakfast, he rolled his eyes, as he has continued one protest: he does NOT drink then drive. Great. But too bad. Test anyway. He was 0.0 last night, and this morning.
Fortunately if I had to move, I have some savings. It would bite, and suck in many ways obviously, but I do have the ability/means to do so.
We'll see what the next few months bring.
I am more mentally prepared now to realize this may not work. But I want to see him make the steps and the necessary changes (or not). NOW. Not in 3, 6, 12, 24+ months.

What You experienced is so, so terrible. I def couldn't handle that. I'm glad you've been able to find a more satisfying and fulfilling partner and life!

Do you see how he’s manipulating you?

Submitted by sickandtired on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 15:02

lt seems to me that he may be trying to make you feel guilty (the bad guy) because you are making him be accountable by testing him. Is he trying to make you feel sorry for him by crying and acting like a child and a victim? What if he’s trying to speak to your kindness and use it to get you to leave him alone about his drinking, which is his ultimate goal. That’s soooo manipulative. He doesn’t want to, or may not be able to, do the work required to satisfy your suspicions simply because that’s too much work, and he doesn’t want to quit drinking. Yes, you need to see an honest effort from him NOW! Not 2 or 3 months from now. You know how much he procrastinates and makes empty promises.

Another very important thing I see happening here is that you have fallen into a parent/child relationship, where you may have to tell him to do the most basic decent things in life that most people just do by themselves out of a sense of responsibility.... like NOT drinking and driving, especially with his kids on the car. Lahlah, you need to be educated and warned of the fact that the parent child relationship kills romantic relationships and it fosters even more dependence on you. For example, what if you forget to test him before he goes out one day and he gets arrested for DUI. The cops will charge him, but you know who he will blame? YOU (“you let me go out, but you didn’t test me, so it’s your fault I was drunk driving”). You can’t win in a parent child relationship with a partner. It is also a huge downer when it comes to sexual attraction. You will lose all of whatever attracted you to him if you have to treat him like a child instead of your man. Here’s an example of a person I know in real life. My ex brother in law has ADHD. Back when I was married to my ex we agreed to keep his nephew for the summer. I called his father to get info on the boy’s likes and dislikes, medications, etc. but all his dad wanted to do was talk about himself. He said his wife would have to call me back to give them any info on their son. That’s weird, I thought. This guy doesn’t even know what sports his 16 year old son is into, much less what his meds are. I told my husband how checked out his brother seemed. He said yeah, he has ADHD so severely that he has to be TOLD twice a day even to brush his teeth. His wife tells him when he needs to bathe and when he needs to brush his teeth. EVERY DAY, like there is no learning to do these things on his own that we learned to do as small children. Do you want that kind of burden in your life?? I hope not.

It would seem advantageous for him if your guy is trying to get you back into that unquestioning lovesick lady you were at first, so that he won’t have to do a thing or change his behavior. I know you told him several times that you require him to go to AA meetings if this is going to work out. He may have agreed and promised to go, but how many has he actually attended??? I required my ex husband to go to sex addicts anonymous and he agreed, told me he found a meeting in the next town and said he was going to a meeting that night. He did this several times, coming back home like he expected gratitude from me because he was “trying to better himself”. Well, I was suspicious of everything, which is a miserable state of mind to be in, so I thought I would just verify his promise to go to these meetings. One night (he told me his meetings were only held at night) one night I followed him to the neighboring town where he said the meetings were. I followed him to a place that ended up being a strip joint!!!! Oh my god I was LIVID!!! He was once again, abusing my trust by lying to me and using that opportunity to “better himself” to go watch naked women. I also found out he had gone to an ATM and took $400 to the strip club, so how many lap dances or sex or whatever can you get for $400?

The point I’m making is that when trust is gone ALL trust is gone. You should read about all of the affairs folks on this forum have had to suffer through because their partner has to have a new, shiny object to be excited about. When I found out about it, he resented me for my honest feelings of hurt and betrayal.

YOU DON’T WANT to be with ANY kind of ADDICT!!!

Lahlah, one more important thing....

Submitted by sickandtired on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 17:57

You must prepare yourself that any talk of breaking up with your guy will likely escalate his unacceptable behavior. He may lash out at you, label you the bad guy, or further his attempts to manipulate you. You may wonder why I stayed with my angry unemployed boyfriend so long, over 10 years. I wanted to break up with him years before I actually did. The daily fights he would start were unbearable, BUT every time I told him he needed to move out of my house, he would cry hysterically and run out of the house threatening SUICIDE! He knew my older sister had killed herself decades ago, and he used my greatest tragedy to manipulate and control me into letting him stay. He would threaten suicide literally saying he was going to go and jump off a nearby cliff, run out of the house, and be gone for as much as 8 hours. I was unable to chase after him because of my broken leg, so I called the police and they searched everywhere for him especially in and around that cliff. Then later he would just come home like nothing had happened. He didn’t even understand why this rash behavior made me so upset! His logic was that if I was so upset, I must still love him and therefore he needs to stay, because I didn’t even know what’s best for me... like I’M the crazy one. So be aware that this kind of extreme manipulation and emotional blackmail from your guy is very possible. Don’t be caught unaware... and don’t let him change your mind or make you second guess yourself.

Not your responsibility

Submitted by adhd32 on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 09:35

You are making a big mistake by taking on responsibilities only he can manage. You are enabling him by attending any meetings w him and running out to buy the breathalyzer meter and testing him, both are actions he should be managing completely on his own if he is actually serious about being sober and proving it to you. Why isn't he accountable to himself? If he was serious about sobriety HE would have already done more to show you he was committed but instead he is allowing you to spin your wheels as he continues to drink He is a man with a history and lots of experience as an addict (alcoholism is an addiction). He knows lots of tricks and will play the victim, manipulate you into thinking you are the bad guy, then blame you when you hold him to account. You cannot do this for him. Both addiction and ADHD are lifelong conditions that must be managed by him, not you. You may want this for him more than he wants it for himself. Serious commitment to treatment with professionals who deal with ADHD and addiction plus continued therapy can get and keep him on the right path but HE must do the work to stay sober, it is a lifelong struggle he must embrace. Why wasn't he already attending AA meetings and working on his sobriety since his last relapses? It's a lifelong commitment.

I Can't Seem to Get It Right

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 11:46

adhd32 et all,
Thank you for your blunt perspective.
As I continue to read honest responses and perspectives, I'm hit with two things:
1) I'm screwed. They're right. This isn't going to work out well for me. (And it's for my benefit I see this vs keep getting caught up in hopes/fantasies that may or may not exist)
2) It seems regardless what I try/change my approach, I'm still "enabling" him. Shit.
Yesterday he attended an AA meeting. The night before, instead of me joining, he decided he wanted to go on his own. In the morning. And let me sleep. I asked him to share location w/me and let me know when he's coming back.
He slept through the 7am meeting he said he might join (I mean, duh), and 9am, so he went to the 10am. By the time he was getting ready, I was awake and offered to come with him. I had also kinda wanted to and was suspicious of his change of heart. He said he was nervous, and didn't really want me there, but if I wanted to come, we could both just observe. I said no, if I'm going to hamper your visit, I'll stay behind.
I asked him to take the breathalyzer before he went, after he went, mid-day, and before bed. 0.0 and no complaints from him when he did. We both know it's not a sustainable resolution, but it is a measure to hold him accountable/can no longer easily sneak it, and makes me feel better.
During the AA meeting I saw his location at the meeting location and saw his trip back. He got a 24 hour chip and said he told his story. He came back rather excited. Said he still doesn't know if the meetings help him in his opinion, but, he forgot how nice and helpful people involved with these things are. He said 'as a person who relapsed after being sober for so long especially, they were all over him' and there were 4 people in particular he got names and #s for he plans to keep in touch with, and gave me the # of a wife of one of these guys that attended in support of her husband. He said she didn't attend al-anon but welcomed connecting. So I sent her my # back. He said all 4 (including this lady) messaged him back as they said they would, and quickly. He was impressed.
I was happy to see him seemingly pumped up after this meeting and having new contacts from it.
He wants US to go back Wednesday, him for aa, me for al-ano, at the same building. I said OK.
I also attended an online al-anon that morning. Had tech issues and joined late and am not sure if it'll help me but am willing to try. The day's topic was 'how a higher power restores you'. Not exactly what I was seeking atm, but nothing against it.
He had suggested al-anon also, but said he thought it was "creepy", he didn't know, but it seemed it could make things worse. He suspected it would be a group of bitter, angry, cynical people venting each meeting. Yet he also suggested it. And, he was wrong.
So all in all, yesterday was looking positive. He went to and meeting and seemed to benefit from it vs coming back grumbly it doesn't help him but he'll still try it. He was in a good mood. He talked to me about it.

Then we moved on to part 2 of the day. The evening before he said he wanted to make a daily list of top 3 to-do's and some good-to-dos, to try and better manage his procrastination/adhd and his many to-dos. He asked me to ask him at the end of the day what he got done, and I can remind him during the day of it but I don't have to.
Yesterday's list all affected me: 1) attend aa 2) make list of potential therapists/places to look in to 3) an hour of honey-do (my choice)
He knocked out #1 with aa. Then I thought he was working on 2 when sitting in his chair on his laptop. He wasn't. We had lunch, and not without my support, we took a nap. Then I brought it up again. He already tried to say he could 'push things on the list off until tomorrow'. I said what's the point of top 3 daily lists you must complete, if you'll push them back to tomorrow! He said yeah.
But, as you can imagine, we still did this dance a few more times, as time went by and he wasn't working on either.
Finally I bribed him to do the honey-do portion. It worked. We finally got a few pictures hung that, as other things, kept getting delayed/excuses, and he tried to throw delays/excuses even mid-process and after agreeing. I think he truly believed them, too, and wasn't just trying to quit. 'We need xyz tool' we don't have, even though he's wasted plenty $ on hanging tools, but not what he suddenly wanted. 'It's too late, we'll irritate the neighbors', it's not too late it's before 9pm, and they're outside. 'Let's do the 3rd one tomorrow (out of a set of 3), it's getting late' NO let's do it NOW.'
After it was done, he thanked me for motivating him, because 'he wasn't motivated to do Anything', and I won't have to bribe him like that every time, but ty. (The bribe was sex. We both wanted it. Had been awhile. But yes, I went to that level. 2 birds 1 stone.)

He didn't make his therapist list. He did 2/3. I think he wants to do that even less than attend aa.
And he mentioned making a to-do list for today that he didn't make, and I also forgot about.
Before he came upstairs to go to bed (he liked to delay and join me 15, 20, 30+ min later as he finishes a game(s)) I asked him to remember to put away some of the stuff he had out (package of blueberries, a soda). Of course, he forgot. It's not only normal, but esp late at night, I may have too.
Now he's still in bed at 11:22am. I set an alarm for him at 10:52 and 11. We stayed up late, and I stayed in bed about this late yesterday as I always feel lacking sleep lately.
Switching Back-- my parents visited Thursday evening, and bc of their visit he and his kids (who left Friday) did a whirl-wind quick clean up that was amazing. I should have company more often! And I asked my Dad to prepare to help with things he may resist help with but had been delayed many weeks, and my Dad did. He helped fix a chair and hang a heavy mirror. I could have added a lot to that list, but even that felt like a big win. He's always helping my brother in law with house stuff cause he won't do things either, but difference being my fiance will protest OTHERS helping and says he'll do it... but then doesn't. My BIL flat out says, nope. Neither are great approaches, but one gets action sooner.
Anyway.
Do I want to be with someone I have to remind to do basic adult things like Shower, Change Clothes, Eat, Drink Water, etc? (Also as a comment recently said, and it's true for us too!). NO!
Do I want to be with a grown man in his 40s with 2 kids that continually gets stuck in his own world/head and continues to procrastinate, make excuses, and sit on his ass? NO!
Do I want to be with a man who often Ignores his own kids when they're here and I feel so much is put on Me (directly or indirectly)? NO!
By the way, after our talks at his Mothers, we came back and he took each kid to breakfast (lunch) individually to spend time with them, and took a long trip to sight see. It's not what I had in mind when I said he should participate with HIS OWN KIDS more often, but I am glad for them that he did.
Do I want to be with an alcoholic / an alcoholic who is relapsing now, now that we live together and are engaged, and he was sober for 2.5 years? Answer is obvious.
Do I really think these past weeks are his FIRST relapse and he was actually sober before? I'm not 100% sure... but yes. His X has been making him take hair tests for the first, I'm not sure, year, and, we need to deal with here and now.
Do I want to be with someone with not-fully-managed ADHD? No.
Does he want to be with someone who gets easily offended/defensive, anxious and stressed? No. Easy is relative, and I already have several reasons to feel how I feel when I feel it. But he's not the first guy I've dated who has claimed I get offended/defensive. Granted... ugh, males. Sorry I'm not always a smiling supportive passive happy angel.

Speaking Of! Yesterday, HE decided to tell his X himself.
Had his mother been threatening to tell her, and was pushing him to do it himself first? Yes. Even yesterday morning he told me he wanted his mother to calm down and he wanted to tell his X after his plans were in motion (AA, therapist, etc), but then later same day he said 'I'll go ahead and tell her now. Why not.'. (His mother had told him she'd stop pushing him to bc she wants HIM to do it, but if he doesn't soon...) He texted his X to talk. She was 'busy'. (Ugh) So he figured they'd talk Today. I told him to tell her she can reach out to me anytime if she had Qs or wanted to.

WAIT, I found the alcohol AGAIN and he lied then apologized AGAIN, Thursday morning, but he only got a 24 hour chip Saturday?
I asked him yesterday, wait, when is the last time you drank? Wasn't it Wednesday?
No.
Was it... but.... I caught you going for a drink Thursday morning. Did you already have some BEFORE, and you were going for More?
Yes.
Oh..........
And I had gone out and bought the breathalyzer 12 hours later Thursday night, and he blew 0.0 by the time I had it and he tested.
Well, moving on. He's been 0.0 every time since. (*And the more $$ breathalyzer he bought from amazon arrived yesterday, as he said it would. Originally I had said "ok" to it arriving Saturday, as Walgreens had limited options, but after realizing he planned to drive around Friday, I went and bought one Thursday night.)
I made him use the breathalyzer before taking his kid to breakfast Friday.
He STILL adamantly states he has never, doesn't, wouldn't, and won't, drink then drive, it's 'something he doesn't do'. I already told him, it's hard to say 'oh, he'd lie about x but not y', but he stands firm about this, and reminds me when I test him before and after he drives somewhere now that I can test and it's 0.0 each time. (He reminds me it's not necessary, but still tests).

Anyway- one last add-
He may truly think he's trying to be helpful and is concerned, but he Also recently has been trying to give ME tips/advise, to help ME, because he knows I've been hurting with anxiety etc.
He said I was on the 'lowest dose' of Zoloft, maybe I should get it increased. (I just started it towards the beginning of this year but had contemplated it for years). I said I do have issues w/anxiety (basically have since college, but esp last 7ish years), but You know lately it's mostly been from YOU, and I don't want to increase DRUGS I take because of THIS. (SO MESSED UP. But I think he truly thought he was helping me get help? But, NO! Not atm, not bc he is recommending it, even if I do need it!). He said I should Meditate, and he should too, and went on and on and on about meditation. Not saying meditation wouldn't help. But we/he talked, I basically shut down, myself, while he talked. He finally moved on.
Soo yeah.

What am I going to do about his inevitable procrastinating finding a therapist? Remind him, or leave it alone and see if he does it himself? IDK.
And when the alcoholism is being addressed, and we're back to all the pre-existing ADHD concerns and issues that brought me to this page before? IDK.
I don't want to ENABLE him. Nor stay and have my own mental and physical health decline from stress, anxiety, and disappointment. But the therapists and some of your alls tips are helpful. Truly get me to realize I have to take a step back, and see if things change or not, and realize they may not, and I may need to leave.
Most likely need to leave.
Most likely this is doomed / a bleak future.
So hard and heart breaking... just 3.5 months, after 2 years of dating... the glass is cracking and I'm watching the cracks grow but hope it doesn't shatter.
Time Will Tell.
I need to see him put Action to his many Words. Words words words words words. Plans and words and plans and words and plans and words and agreements. He needs more ACTION.
Time Will Tell.
I'm thinking a few months... before the end of the year, to see continual solid actions and changes, or I'm out. :'(

And this morning...

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 12:32

He came downstairs, after I woke him up (set the alarm twice for him, he is a hard sleeper, turns them off and goes right back to sleep, so I yelled upstairs to let him know the time).
Doesn't help I'm just thinking of all these things again, and slightest bit still groggy myself, so by the time I see him I'm not a ray of sunshine. He asked if I was still waking up or if I'm OK?
I said yeah still waking up. He hugged me.
Then I said actually... and... I don't like that you had 3 to-do's yesterday and only got to 2 of them because I bribed you- I wanted it, too, but still-
He said 'its incremental...' I ignored him and said and I'm afraid you're going to try and delay finding a therapist-
And you didn't make yourself a to-do list for today. And you didn't put away the stuff you said you would last night-
He said 'I'm still trying to catch up to the fact the morning is already gone. And no I don't have a list for today yet.'
I said well I tried to wake you up a few times. He said maybe he needed the sleep.
He said he has a (typical) morning headache and wants to sit somewhere for awhile alone, as he didn't do yesterday after mentioning it, maybe he will upstairs. (to think/ be alone). I said fine.
He asked what I planned to do today. I said (as I often answer) I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I got nothin.
And I love that I got nothin. I am so glad his kids are gone again (sorry not sorry) and it's quiet and I can do whatever, including Nothing! No one is demanding my attention, but sometimes him and my dog. And that's easy.
I am not the type of person who always needs to be busy. I like a balance, and having less plans than more. I like having nothing. I find peace in it. Even if it's unproductive, quiet, nothing time.
And he just came back down to take headache meds. (About daily) and said his heads getting worse (about daily) and he isn't going to use our bedroom, its 'too active' (?!) and 'too much stuff' (?!) so he's in one of the kids bedrooms and doesn't want me to text or anything unless I really need to.
Wish I could have him leave ME alone when I want quiet time and he not text me etc. But, I haven't ASKED for it yet. I just think it, when I wiggle away, example to the bedroom or when he's on an errand, but keeps texting me. So that's my own fault.
But he can have his space and private time. Fine with me. I respect that we both could/should. He's always talking about how he should and wants to and needs to, about time he does. And it means I will, too.

And...

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 13:07

He just came downstairs to talk to me. Said he wasn't done with his upstairs alone time, but, he should do it more often- it always works- he sorts things out- I can remind him to do it (yeah, add it to the 1000 things list of things he says to remind him of) - but he wants to give me (3) 1 hour what-I-want-him-to-do periods today, whether I pick something already on his list I know he needs to do, or something else, like mow the lawn, or not, things are also on his list, but I can pick whatever.
I said, are you sure 3 HOURS isn't too much?
He claimed no.
And he just came downstairs again and interrupted me again, as he needed coffee, and we don't have an "office", my desk is setup in the kitchen. I said you keep coming downstairs?! He said coffee (he drinks a LoT of Coffee). I said you're interrupting me. He apologized. Asked what I was doing, am I working on my list for him to do? I said no. You want to see what I'm doing? You can! He said no, then asked if I'm streaming thought. I said kinda. He said we should take a walk later today and should try to daily, it doesn't have to be on my list of to-dos for him today, he will just do it, it could be My to-do. I said a walk would be fine, but No More Remind Yous, Today.
Whatever I was going to say earlier... oh well, doesn't matter.
I like his proposal of me telling him what to work/focus on for (3) 1 hour batches today, even if as we all know, I shouldn't have to! But I will pick some stuff on his/our list (mow our tiny back yard area) and maybe work on his chaos in the basement, and maybe an hour of playing a game together.
Again... OMG*.... and I know.... OMG....
But need to see ACTION. His recent trip downstairs was much better news than his former about how he is processing that the morning is gone and he has a headache, blah blah blah.

He came back, Again

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 13:47

A few minutes later I missed a text. "Ready whenever you are. Were you writing down thoughts to share with me ? Or something?" Then he came downstairs right after I turned the comp off. I said no, it was something else. He asked if I wanted to talk or get start on things or he should shower or- I said I'm going to shower. I left him sitting back in his chair on his laptop on the main level.
And I remembered to also add-

Tracking his location is also not a sustainable resolution. He has said it is not a way for me to help him and I have said I agree he had to be doing things and I can't be his parent / spy, but for now, please concede, as even though it's stupid it makes me feel better. And he did.

I'll update this again end of day or tomorrow.

His motivation has to come from HIM

Submitted by sickandtired on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 14:36

LahLah. All of this reminding and structuring his day is enabling him. He’s asking you to enable him. “Wake me up!” (even if I resist and it takes multiple attempts on your part), “tell me some to-do’s and structure my day for me” (even though I might put them off till tomorrow or infinity)...THIS is what ADHD32 meant when they said you are enabling him. You are still doing waaaay too much FOR him. You are his alarm clock, daily calendar, conscience, motivator, etc for him. He will only become more dependent on you if you keep doing the thinking for him. You have to REALLY step back to know if any genuine progress is being made here. So far you are running yourself ragged managing two minds— yours and his. This is not sustainable, and you will be worn out with him still not understanding it’s not your job or his mom's job, or his ex wife’s job, to keep his behavior under control. It’s HIS. You need to step back, to see if he will keep up going to meetings, cleaning up the house, spending quality time with his kids, etc.

I know you are afraid to let go of the rules and structure you have placed upon him, but you’ve told him multiple times what you need to see, and now you have to let go and see if he can do it sustainably by himself. I know you fear that if you stop reminding, structuring or testing him that he will just go back to how he was. You need to know if he has internalized any of these things or if it’s just a mirage...with all of the motivation coming from you. It’s got to come from HIM.

Makes Sense

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 15:08

Ah. Yeah.
No, I agree.
And yet I'm accepting an I-choose-what-he-does day anyway. He said it will help him, bc his list is overwhelming and he has lots to do, he just wants me to tell him what to do.
Clearly not a sustainably way to manage his own life and shouldn't be on me. Another thing on me.
But for the present, it's nice to see things getting done.
I suggested he go mow the lawn. He said fine but it'll be in my time of things-to-do or we'll run out of day. (Whatever). He asked if he should buy a weed trimmer to finish the yard, I ask he include a store run. Am I sure? Yes. Go do those things. Whatever.
He asked my thoughts on dinner. I said *sigh I don't have all the answers. But then I said, actually lets finish the roast I've had in the freezer for... way too long, that may or may not still be good.
He said I can pick something that would make me happy, not just stuff on his list too, like when we hung the pictures. I said ok. IDK.

While I was upstairs finishing getting ready after my shower I heard him on the phone. He texted his X again to call him. This time she did. He told her.
He said SHE is going to send him a list of therapists that may accept his insurance, cause she's a counselor at a school and knows? Or something.
Then he asked why I made a "frog face". I said, IDK if it's right or wrong, but I've tried to give you resources, your mother has tried, now you're getting your X to? When my therapist and the ADHD book both said you need to do it Yourself.
He said, she's just copying and pasting a list, he doesn't think it's wrong. (His mother doesn't think giving him help for that is wrong either, but perhaps he's surrounded by enablers, and that's also why he was with her before. She didn't demand cleanliness/organization, and she had to deal with his other issue(s) for years). I dropped it. I can't control what other people do. I can't control what he does. He just needs to DO it.

He said his list for TODAY 3 1-hour honey do, one hour together siting and talking preferably over a meal, and his daily eval + tomorrow plan.
What a sad list. One of 3 items is making his list of 3 items for tomorrow.
But whatever. This is his thing, not mine. His plan to plan his days. I don't care.

He said when he gets back from his errands to tell him what I want him to do next. It's lame, it's not sustainable, it's for today.
I said Put Away Your Suitcase that's been on the floor since we got back last Monday. He said sure, yes, like that, I can remind him when he gets back and he'll do it, and anything else that's been bothering me.
But he may also shower first, as soon as he gets back. He's gross from mowing. Also why he's going out Now. *eyeroll

Will see, will see, will see. We'll see.
Bad patterns. Bad approaches. Bad future forecast for our relationship. And asking me to do a LOT whether he realizes it or not. Including, I made him test again, 0.0. and he said sure yes, please, test him 4 times/day, it keeps him accountable.
Better than arguing about it, which would be a quick no-go for us.
We'll see.

Still Adding More

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 18:01

And to continue.
He ran the errand. He finished the lawn. I was watching a tv show and he asked me what's next what's next. I said IDK, take your shower first and I'll tell you after.
He said why keep it a secret? Tell him.
I said I haven't sat around just thinking about what HE should be doing all day, I haven't thought of it at all!
He said, guess not.
Then he wanted to sit/cool off first before showering.
I asked him to please walk the dog since he was cooling down anyway. He did.
Came back, sat a bit, then went upstairs... but not showing. I asked what he was doing. 'Cooling and drying'.
I said please shower so we can eat sooner?
He said 'wanna go ahead and start it then?' (He asked for spaghetti tonight, I agreed).
I went upstairs. He's still not in the showering. He's 'in the bathroom, then will shower'.
Typical, typical bs.
Delays delays delays and excuses.
By the time he's gone and we eat, there's a few hours left of the day. "My hour" and relax time before I'm wanting to go to bed, which is another struggle we've talked about and he claimed, again, we'd change.
We'll see, won't see.
And he wonders why I increasingly have a need for space and silence, and am not bubbly, am fatigued, and etc.

I texted his X while he was running errands. Said I heard they talked, feel free to reach out to me. She said part of their custody agreement said if he relapses, he has to go to aa, find a therapist, and do testing.
I had NO idea about that.
She actually said, he probably didn't even remember either. She said their last 2 years together, he did a Lot of things she thinks was due to alcohol and doesn't remember, not violent, but he's a high functioning black out drunk that was good at hiding it.
His Mother said the same thing though- that he probably forgot that portion of their custody agreement, when I wrote her with, 'are you kidding me (that it's not just something he's agreeing to and doing for himself and us, but part of his legal agreement).'
They're both right. His memory is really shotty. But SERIOUSLY? Yeah, maybe. Or maybe that's why he wanted it to be in-process by the time he told her. Who the heck knows, never will, have to deal with the here and now...
And she said she's less anxious about it, knowing I'm here, and she knows I have the kids best interest in mind and watch after them when they're here.*Sigh. Yes, that's good, and you're welcome, but shouldn't be my obligation.
And, she said, she thinks he should tell his kids about it, as they may be seeing the difference of behavior from the past and now. I know the teen knows, IDK about the 10 year old. She says he "forbids" her to tell them. I said that's though, but TBH, I don't know if telling them is best either. Their teen is very mature, but they're both still kids.

So tired of his bs though. From the big stuff, to the minor things that weigh more heavily with everything else, like procrastinating even showering for an hour + after he says he will.
He's going to drive me bonkers.
TIME WILL TELL.
But hopefully I'll still have some sanity left in the end, if it does end how many predict is inevitable (he doesn't take the actions and changes needed, and I need to leave).
Deep breath. Deep breath. This is my choice to try, and give it time. Deep breath.

Wow!

Submitted by sickandtired on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 18:10

A relationship should NOT have to be THIS MUCH WORK!

Mom tried, his ex tried. Boy I can see why they are both glad you are in his life. It makes their lives so much easier when he has a new caretaker.

I agree!

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 18:27

So much. So much.
He came down from showering and I looked at a big box he needs to return sitting on top a cabinet and said, that! That's what else you can do for me today.
He said, you gave that up remember? I said, what?? He said 'you said you didn't want to think of anything else.' I said 'I didn't want to spend all day thinking of things for You, I'd try to come up with something later after your shower!' He said 'well don't ask me right now at any rate. I'm hungry, I can't think'.
I'm livid. He asked me how many spag sauces we have (I told him to quit buying more as were stocked for Awhile). I just sat there silently.
He offered to make dinner. I said thanks, I'm going to go Face. (Go upstairs and lay down with a face mask I just got myself).
My gawd.
I may need to get myself a hotel room a few nights just to decompress, while he's in process of getting / seeking / attending self help. My patience is hanging by a thread.
But I'll sleep. I'll relax. And see what tonight and tomorrow bring.
ONE DAY AT A TIME, while trying this Time Will Tell thing.

Sickandtired is right.

Submitted by AdeleS6845 on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 18:46

No relationship should be this much work. I'm getting exhausted just reading about it.

I used to be a little too involved with my fiance and his issues. I made up my mind that I wasn't going to do it that his "stuff" is his to manage. I will not enable him, I will not remind him he is an almost 55 year old man. I have enough on my plate managing my own life.

About a month before the $hit hit the fan with the pandemic, my fiance had a heart attack. His cardiologist told me and his mother that he had to stop smoking. His mother thought that he was back to smoking cigarettes but it wasn't cigarettes it was weed. Still doesn't matter the doctor does not want him smoking it. Guess what? He's been smoking it on the daily every freaking day since he got home from the hospital so it's been over 2 years. Am I concerned about his health? Yes. Will my worrying about it or hounding him to quit make things any better? No. His habits/addictions are his to manage not mine. It has to matter to him or there will be no change. Same thing with your guy, LaLa.

Can't blame you, my rambling

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 21:50

Can't blame you, my rambling and the content both are exhausting. I feel frustrated and exhausted myself half the time after writing Vs feeling better.
Not that it matters, he did nothing else productive tonight. We sat at the table to eat dinner but he was 'too tired / no brain' to converse and told me I could talk. I said let's just watch tv and eat. Before dinner he said he's had a good day, except the part where I've seemed down all day, he had a productive day and felt it was good, but did I want to talk about it? I said, nope. He said he'd wait until I did.
We relaxed on the couch and watched tv after dinner too. I didn't bring up to-dos or anything. He said he was tired. I thought f it, I don't want to "talk" nor fight this, I just want to relax, and laid in his lap and let him play with my hair and I enjoyed it. Then I went outside to chat across the deck to a friendly neighbor. It made me feel better.
At this point things may just be repetitious.
I'll return to share any new developments, and of course hope they're positive but recognize they may be negative.

Nvm

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 07/17/2022 - 22:33

Removing unnecessary add.

Lahlah... how are you doing?

Submitted by sickandtired on Wed, 08/03/2022 - 13:23

Now that it’s been a couple of weeks since you checked in with us, I was wondering how you are feeling, and if he has made any progress on his own.

Thank you for following-up

Submitted by LahLah on Thu, 08/04/2022 - 12:29

Not so good.
And no.
He drank again last week while I was out with friends.
Because of everything and anything I've been highly irritable and am fed up with him. He could clearly tell two days ago and asked why I was being that way. As I continued, he quietly (bc his kids are here for the week again) seethed, "God Damn it, why are you being such a crazy f****ing b****?'.
To me, that crossed a new line. He hasn't cursed at me before or called me names. He hasn't gotten angry, like that. I saw a side of him that further makes our future look grim. I even hoped he was maybe projecting, from his X trying to make him agree to new rules when he sees his kids, due to his relapse, but it wasn't. She just sent her legal stuff over this morning, that included making him send her breathalyzer results while the kids are here and going to therapy, I found out. And he plans to fight it. I think he'll just waste a Lot of Money time and energy on it, yet another really poor decision (omg...) I'm getting off topic-
Even if you're upset, that's not how I want to be talked to or how I talk to my romantic partner.
Some people don't mind colorful language. Some do. I do.
I told him to Get Out! (of the bedroom).
He protested, even though he was on his way out already, but as I got more vocal he said stop yelling, and I said I wouldn't unless he left. So he did. (Because of the kids)

That night and yesterday I was a total wreck. A sad, pathetic, beaten, miserable version of myself. I stayed in bed all day. No interest in eating or drinking. I know it's unhealthy, but I just couldn't.
THIS reaction may be influenced by him, but I know is on ME. I control my behavior and my actions and reactions. It's one of the reasons I started therapy a few months ago. I get so overwhelmed with my own emotions sometimes, and wish I could brush them off easier or handle them better, especially when they hurt so much and its not just me being irritable.
I got my sertaline upp'ed some due to/during this.

I told him it WASN'T OK to talk to me like that. I can't believe he talked to me like that. It's NOT OK.
He preferred to validate what he said.Later he finally said he apologizes for his outburst. He has reasons but not excuses.

I used words including he's gas lighting me and I won't play his games.
He later said (both these I mean texted) 'WHen describing what I recall is "gas lighting" and trying to simply talk is "playing games", it seems like talking to you is hopeless... I fear you've into some sort of negativity spiral, where your self-talk is harmful and you're much more likely to interpret everything in a negative manner'... it goes on.

At the end of the day he asked if he could sleep in the bed. I said I don't care. He chose to sleep downstairs, and wrote "Amazingly, you're not teh only crisis I've been having to deal with today, (then mentioned his X's new legal paperwork). I didn't respond to that.

I am glad to say we hope to attend a couples counseling session together in the near future. "His" idea, that I had suggested before, but now he wants to do it. Fine, either way.
It may not solve everything. Or anything. But it's worth trying.

Yesterday, BEFORE the incident, my therapist again advised I should leave, as a temp break or as a break up, either way. As did a friend. As did the Dr who upp'ed my sertraline prescrip.
But -- not to sound like 'that person' that I too would have judged in the past -- it's not that easy.
I had still wanted to give it time, to see if he improved.

But he's NOT going to AA, like he said he would.
He is NOT finding/going to a therpist, like he said he would.
He is NOT sticking to any of his goals lists/plans, like he said he would.
He's going right back to/continuing how things were.

I wanted to see if this would possibly change within, IDK, before the end of the year.
His cursing at me moved up that time line.

But I still want to do couples counseling, and when his kids are gone, re-address many of the other concerns, too.
Things NEED to change.
HE needs to WANT it to change.
He's digging his hole deeper and deeper.

The next week(s) will tell me a lot. When we have our session. When we get to talk. What he does/doesn't do next.
I can't even hold my breath or hope for a miracle. I'm running pretty low on hope and faith that we can work.
But the tiny bit left still wants to try these things, and see.

Today I got up and showered and am at my desk.
Still drained. But doing better.
And, the timing, I got promoted at work this week and am about to be a lot more busy and likely stressed than I used to be.
I liked my job... I enjoyed doing what I do, and it was pretty laid back.
Now it's changing. I accepted the position I was offered. It felt like the right move. I hope it's not something I should have declined, while my personal life is already running over stress and anxiety wise.
But I didn't want to decline it because of that, either.

It starts in less than 2 weeks.
I'm nervous.
Maybe the extra work/being busy will help me whether we work out or not. IDK.
We shall see.

Thanks again --

What more do you need?

Submitted by adhd32 on Thu, 08/04/2022 - 13:34

But he's NOT going to AA, like he said he would.
He is NOT finding/going to a therpist, like he said he would.
He is NOT sticking to any of his goals lists/plans, like he said he would.
He's going right back to/continuing how things were.

What are you clinging to? Even after Melissa responded you still think you can do this on your own. Pack and leave. Let him improve himself without your input.

I know..

Submitted by LahLah on Thu, 08/04/2022 - 13:43

We hope to speak to Melissa next week.
She and I know it won't solve things. But if he refuses to listen to HER as well ...
It's a hail mary. :'(

Why give this more time?

Submitted by 1Melody1 on Thu, 08/04/2022 - 13:45

This relationship is so, so, so, SO bad. If your judgement is off because you're "in" it, why not put your faith in the people around you who can see things clearly - your therapist, your friend, your doctor? ALL of them have advised you leave and they are not strangers on the internet - they are people in your real life who understand your situation. Read the post another professional, Melissa, took the time to write in this thread about the red flags that are all over this. The sooner you get out, the less you have to lose. The longer you stay, the more financially invested you will become, the more his kids will love and rely on you and the more abuse you will sustain that you will have to recover from after. He does not have his life together enough to be a good partner to anyone right now. Full stop. Keep your eyes open. He is still drinking behind your back. The swearing and blaming/belittling you is an escalation. What's next? It is okay for this not to work out. I have been in a bad relationship before. I know what it's like to know that you need to leave in your gut, but to hang on to what you thought it was or hoped it could be. A happy, healthy future for YOU relies on you leaving, not staying. Leave and focus on your new job and your own mental health so that you can learn why you are willing to accept this kind of treatment. That way you will be more likely to seek out a healthy partnership next time. The good stuff you're remembering from the beginning is gone. This is a dead end. It really is. I'm sorry.

No matter what, please don't stop reaching out to people. Keep talking to your friend and therapist and doctor. It is really good to have support and it's so smart that you throw light on what you are dealing with vs. hiding it in the shadows.

Sadly, Red Flags All Over

Submitted by MelissaOrlov on Tue, 08/02/2022 - 17:31

I'm delighted that you posted at the site and also reached out. The decision about who to marry is one of the most important decisions you will make in your life. It is always and forever your decisions to make, but I will weigh in on the ADHD side of things. First am going to lay out the bare bones version of my response - the businesslike version - then I will explain and elaborate.

At the moment, the man you describe is:

not able to follow through on his intentions or promises
intent on controlling your behavior (hiring maids; setting you up to babysit his kids by escaping)
an alcoholic
emotionally volatile enough to give you panic attacks
unemployed
divorced (70% of second marriages end up in divorce)
willing to ask you to lie for him (drinking cover up)
rude
exceptionally messy
gaslighting you

Those are all things that you described above. Look at the list and step back from your feelings for a bit. Is this the person you were trying to marry? At best, given your anguish about your situation, I strongly recommend that you do not set a wedding date yet. If you have done so already, I strongly suggest you postpone/cancel that particular date and get yourself to more solid ground first. It's much harder to divorce than it is to postpone a wedding date.

Now, for the detailed response.

The things you describe are some of the least attractive parts of ADHD, and some of them in particular are a big, big deal when it comes to a long-term relationship. To whit:

emotional volatility combined with a power struggle: when he lived on his own, he was sweet to you. Now he is rude and angry. He yelled when you hired a maid and again after she came to clean (rather than being delighted that the house was clean and neither of you had to do the work. Remember that you paid for this, he didn't...). That's a power play. It may also be related to shame - perhaps he doesn't wish others to see his mess. Or perhaps he feels you (as the little woman) should be in charge of keeping things neat (as well as taking care of his kids). In either instance, it shows great disregard for your own needs and feelings. He made your paying to get the house cleaned so you would be more comfortable living in your own home about HIM! That's hard to do. And doesn't bode well for his general approach to relationships.

Emotional volatility is one of the hardest things to manage in a relationship because it results in the other partner shutting up and not sharing their feelings, which ultimately ends up meaning they don't get their needs met (or even discussed, for that matter.). A relationship in which you are unable to speak up is not one you wish to sign up for (it's a bit trickier if you didn't know that would be what you were getting when you got married).

Procrastination: One of the things that is sadly true about ADHD is that people with ADHD often know what they are supposed to do, but have trouble bringing that knowledge to bear to their actions at the right time. This results in a complex set of emotions that include shame, anger, resentment, and more. But a promise to do something is not the same thing as doing that thing, and it is the actions that impact your daily life, not the intentions. Adults who are able to manage their ADHD set up strategies that help them be more reliable. Your partner isn't doing that at the moment (pills don't teach skills - meds are only the first step to managing ADHD - see my free treatment ebook from the home page). Before you marry someone you must know that they will carry their own weight 'well enough' that you can have a happy life. At the moment, your partner is doing the exact opposite. Running through all of his money; escaping when his (not your) children are around rather than take care of them; procrastinating on many projects; resisting your attempts to get your life under control; and more. The result is a crushing weight on you that you are now responding to. If your partner isn't going to actually be a PARTNER (i.e. carry some of the weight in the relationship) then you aren't signing onto a marriage, you are signing on to being a slave. Well, that might be a bit melodramatic, but you get the idea. And note that procrastinator suggests that he is actually accomplishing stuff. You haven't indicated that. Which may mean that his is simply someone who doesn't get things done. Smart at work is not the same thing as helpful at home. Nor does it ensure he has the executive function skills needed to go into business for himself.

Alcoholic: Many adults with ADHD suffer from addictions, and they are very hard to break. I find it interesting that your partner's way of getting his mom to 'be okay' with his relapse was to say 'it was bound to happen.' Well, okay, taking his word for it, how do you feel about it being 'bound to happen' over and over again in the future? Because 2.5 years sober (almost all of which was while you two were dating and he had a reason to be happy and at his best) isn't that long. As soon as things got harder when you moved in together he relapsed. That concerns me.

Medications note: Adderall may be causing some of the crankiness (it has the known side effect of irritability, unlike Vyvanse). All stimulants are definitely NOT the same, and he should be able to find one that is affordable in the generic version...or perhaps stimulants aren't what he should be using. Purchase the book "ADD & Zombies" for a much more detailed overview of meds and ADHD.

Here's the bottom line. Do not get married because you have started down the path. Do not get married until you can say that you are happy (vs. panicked or terrified or miserable) and have been GENUINELY happy for a good amount of time (at least over a year, I would say). And by that I mean HAPPY. Not hopeful. At the moment you are neither happy nor hopeful. Do not pin your future on hopes. Look at what you actually have. Remember the old saying that people don't change. Your partner may be able to manage his symptoms better, and I have seen many people be able to do so, but he would have to want to do it and be able to follow through on the methods for doing it, and would also (in my opinion) need to be willing to work on his attitudes towards what respect you deserve and who should be in charge of his kids (it's not you). And NO, saying you can just ignore them because he does is not a solution in my mind. That's asking you not to be you. It's also cruel for the kids, who need an adult. There is a reason that the little girl is following you around all over. (And, no, definitely DON'T get married because this little girl is needy. That is NOT your problem to solve!)

I hope that you can take some time to think through your situation and give yourself the advice you would give a dear friend about whom you were concerned were she in the same situation.

Hope????

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 08/04/2022 - 12:53

Your emotional side seems to be holding on to some mirage of hope, while your intellectual side admits he’s not done anything to address any of his problems. Please don’t expect a miracle from one or two couples counseling sessions either. Couples counseling is geared toward mentally normal people who have relationship and/or communication problems between them. He needs an ADHD specialist. He needs counseling for his alcoholism problem too. I don’t really understand why you keep giving him endless chances, while he does absolutely nothing except verbally abuse you, lie to you and continue to drink. Your therapist is right. You need to ask yourself why you will bet your entire future on him stopping all of these unacceptable behaviors, when there is STILL absolutely no evidence he is even trying. You need to get out of your comfort zone and use this job promotion as the kickstart to getting rid of him and starting your new life. He will only drag you down and you are allowing him to drag you down. You need to be at your best to be successful with your new job responsibilities. Please don’t let his addictions, his abuse, his neediness etc sabotage YOUR LIFE!

Talk more with your own therapist about what is at the root of you taking on his problems and wanting to “fix” him. Are you afraid of being alone? Don’t you think you could do better than this??? I know almost every woman wants to be a bride with a beautiful dress at the center of a beautiful ceremony attended by your friends and family BUT it’s a lifelong commitment to a guy with endless problems and no motivation to do anything about them. What you have seen from him before you moved in together is the best you will ever get from him. The downhill death spiral of this relationship has already accelerated when he started to call you vulgar names. There is nothing for you with this guy except heartbreak and pain.

Another Updated Comment and Reply

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 08/07/2022 - 15:55

Other occurrences this week (Tuesday was my was-irritable-all-day, he said I was being a crazy f* b* that evening, I was in bed all day Wednesday, then we went out to dinner with everyone (kids still here) Thursday to celebrate my promotion, and I chose to relax and not try to "discuss" anything Friday after kids left and chilled, same for Saturday day);

Thursday:
He sent me a questionnaire. A few basic questions. 'Do you get highly offended when...' 'Do you feel hurt when...'
I told him I don’t want Him trying to analyze Me, I am already talking to a therapist and taking sertraline and trying to work on myself, I don’t want him trying to assess me.
He said he ‘didn’t know it was so hard to just answer the questions’. He was upset I wouldn't cooperate.
I asked him what the end goal was. He wouldn't tell me. Said it'd 'alter my answers'.
I googled the set of questions. 'ADHD and emotions'.
He diagnosed himself with ADHD a couple months ago and started taking meds for it.
Now this is the 2nd time he’s brought up maybe I have ADHD too. Though more deceptive this time.
The first time he asked out loud, ‘I know I have it and so of course I see signs of it everywhere now, but, do you think you have adhd?’
Isaid ha, no, sorry.
Now he wanted me to ‘just answer some questions’.

Saturday (summarized, despite the details):
He was on comp all day. I asked if we could have a date night, even thou we just went out Thursday. He said he was on a roll and didn't want to interrupt it, but he was willing. I let us interrupt it for a late dinner (left house at 8).
The evening was bad then good.
It was nice to go out/get out. He was very hyper from 'sitting all day, being productive, coffee coffee and stims'.
At dinner, I said by the way- reminder- I mentioned it and put it on your calendar, but we're meeting Melissa Wednesday.
He said, your gal? (My therapist) I said no-
He looked at me blankly and said come on, just tell me.
I said the author of the book .... (blank) the adhd affect on marriage... (blank) and you said you were excited to talk to her? (blank).
I said I don't know if you werent listening but just agreeing when I talked about this, or you forgot, but you said you were excited about it. (Told him a few days ago or so)
He said yeah, he's still willing to, sure.
I’m sad / concerned he completely forgot.
I said there's still a lot we need to talk about, but i was thinking maybe After we talk to her.
He said like what...
I said well, we've had a few good productive conversations where you make goals and plans, but, then they don't happen. Then it happens again, but then you don't follow through again, and ...
He got defensive. He said, well at least He Makes goals, (you) don't even have goals.
I said this... you're trying to point fingers, and lashing out. It's not helpful. I'm not expecting you to be perfect, just perfect for Me. I'm not perfect either, and if you're looking for that, we're in trouble. I just want you to do the things You say You're going to do.
He said, well I could help remind him-
I said I shouldn't have to remind him every day about every thing he has said he'll do, he should be able to manage Himself.
He said yeah.
Then he brought up his 'questionnaire' he had sent me again, from Thursday, that we had already talked about and I said I didn't want him sending me vague questions and trying to use it to analyze me, and I know it was for ADHD, but those questions fit many categories and are very similar to ones about if I am a highly sensitive person and if I have anxiety, which I do/am, and am working on. I don't think I have ADHD. And you say I don't have any goals? We haven't discussed MY goals, you have set your own goals and plans, but then You don't follow through. Me, I am working full time, I just got promoted, I try to keep the house cleaned up and do the dishes and laundry, I'm talking to a therapist, I'm listening to audible books for highly sensitivity ppl and about adhd and setting boundaries. I got fountains and worry stones and even tried the stupid sage thing (smudging), and upped my sertraline... (again, definetly spiked by him and the recent situations, but has been also been a continued issue of mine- sensitivity. and overwhelming emotions ans anxiety sometimes.)
At some point he also argued he cant talk to me because I get offended/upset. I said, I feel like that's sometimes you just shutting me down, if I don't agree with you. Im not trying to be defensive or offended. I'm telling you what I think. But instead of listening, you shut me down by saying Im being ---
He had asked for an example of something he had said he'd do but hadn't followed through on.
I said, everything?
He said like what.
I said ok... you said you'd work on the basement for an hour each day. Then you didn't. You said we should start a regular bed time routine, I said 11:30-12, you said 11:30 was fine, but it never happens. You said you should eat more regularly so you dont feel like crap, but then you don't. You said you should meditate. Take a walk every day. You don't...
He said yeah, I should...
And I said, not to mention the other agreements you also made that I don't even want to bring up, like about drinking, that you then decided a week or two later, Nope.
And I'm not sure how I'm supposed to react to that.

But I can't fix you, only You can fix you. I can't tell you what to do.
Not fix... but You have to find what works for You.
I am trying to figure out how to support you but not enable. Not be a parent. Not be a nag.
And I'm not your secretary.
He said no, you're not..

There was some bad back and forth. Knee-jerk reactions, deflections, and anger from him. But I hope it wasn't a play just to get me to shut up, but at some point he seemed to understand, and agree, with what I was saying.

Then we continued the evening and had a good dinner, walked around, had dessert, sat and talked, and then drove around while, and it was very nice.
That middle part of the evening was really tough and not encouraging. And kinda what I was afraid of.
It got better, in the moment, but doesn't really mean anything, bc it was another up and down, says one thing but does another, sometimes reacts very poorly, sometimes reacts receptive and understanding. Which ones the truest? IDK.
But as we walked away from dinner, I did offer, if he finds my expectations and needs unreasonable ... it's better to know now than later, although I don't think either of us are hoping for that. But you have power in this relationship too, not just me.
He didn't say anything.
And then we had a nice rest of the time, except one note when I again told him it's NOT OK to talk to me how he did Tuesday. He said, 'but you were being crazy.'. I said no, I was being irritable, and that does NOT give you permission to talk to me that way. He said sorry.
I'm trying to hold on to the good part of the evening, but it's hard.

Sunday:
**GOOD day/start**
Today. He was on comp all morning. Then got up and said he was going to do (xyz) house items he said he'd do days ago, asked if there was anything else pressing I'd like him to do, and said he'd listen to Melissa's book while he works.
I said if he'd do the (xyz) things, really, that'd be great-. And I'm glad he'd going to listen to her book! He took the dog out for me and is working on one of the house chores (mowing) now.

Tuesday, the questionnaire, the non-conversation convo Saturday. More Not Good Signs/ Flags/ Concerns. And not that I need any MORE.
Today - thank goodness. It doesn't solve everything or guarantee it's not a one-time effort and things will go backwards again. But I am nonetheless grateful.

We All Know This Won't Surprise You...

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 08/28/2022 - 13:33

For any curious minds...
We had a great session with Melissa. I feel blessed and thankful and grateful she was willing to squeeze us in, despite if it was due to my honest desperation coming across loud and clear.
He was receptive. Listened. Even got excited, for the advice and understanding she delivered to him. After the session, he immediately started on one of her tips, physically writing down some goals/to-dos, and wanting to have a house meeting to review them nightly.
OMG wow. Hallelujah. Cautious optimism.

The next day, I was pre-occupied with work things and didn't ask/remind him to do or tell me anything, and let the day go by. The day after, I said, how's your list going.
He said, honestly he had forgotten all about it.
(No comment from me, nor necessary).

Then other road blocks came up. I went out of state with some friends for a few days. He took his kids to visit parents for a few days about the same time. I didn't expect any progress, though technically, some of his list to-dos could have been worked on while he was out of town, but nonetheless...

We both get back. We had a good week. And he hasn't been as crass/rude as I felt some times before, only a few questionable comments and questions, but that's fine and bound to happen in any relationship, super minor and I brushed them off. I internally said, Nope. I'm not engaging in this, I'm not going to over-think it and blow it up, and he can get over it, not all his problems are my problems to solve resolve or stress over. I feel post all these support group postings and therapy etc, I've been getting better at that finally?! Learning and progressing, I think hope! I've also been perkier, which helps both of us. I'm glad I went on that trip and got some temp space.
Then he says to me, we should start back on those though meetings, we should be doing them... I said Ok yes, great! (I was going to bring it up soon if he didn't, but he beat me to it)

But that nights house meetings was simply, what/where is the list and whats on it... then, ok, we'll re-meet tomorrow.
But tomorrow there were other reasons he couldn't get to the list yet.
Then I knew it'd be delayed further due to plans we already had for the weekend and his kids being here (again, even though technically...)
So I'm hoping tomorrow. Monday. This coming week. I want to see some action this coming week.
He will. There will be. I won't just wait and watch quietly. I'll remind him. I'll ask him in the evenings.
There will be actions this week ....

And sadly yesterday he got a bad headache and later felt even more ill (and no I don't think he was faking it, and they're sadly not uncommon, and he should do more to try to take care of himself. Another thing I need to add to our future inevitable serious talk.) So I took his kids out to dinner by ourselves (I said Id take care of dinner, here, but then he asked each kid what/where they wanted to eat out instead anyway, I said forget that I'll just take them to [an area with multiple options] and he paid) and I decided to suggest we eat out, and outside, versus bringing the food back home, and the kids were on board, and we had a good time! (No comment necessary on that either.) Then later I texted a neighbor and we played with the neighbors kids and they had a great time.

No responses necessary to any of that omg-ness.
But I'll let ya know how things go in the next week or two or three.

ATM, I'm still feeling good/OK. But yeah. I know. And

OMG he just texted me asking if I can put a menu of easy food options up somewhere so its easier come meal times when the kids are here. I did that months ago, and virtually. It's on the fridge. And shared with him.
He clearly forgot. So many things are like groundhogs day.
As Melissa says... the mindset is the here and now, not the past nor the future.

Anyway. Hope you all have a good week(s)!

Can He Spell It Out More For Me

Submitted by LahLah on Mon, 08/29/2022 - 12:23

Me this morning.
'Will you come help me put together the dog poo bags thing?'
'No.'
'No??'
'No.'
'Why not??'
'Because I don't want to.. right now.. later'
'No one Wants to. But I have 2 poo bags here.'
'Put them on the ground'

He had an old cat trash bag thing and bought bags for it for me to use for the dog, and I asked him to help show me how it worked. Months ago.
First, the trash can was wet, so we'd have to do it later.
Later, .....
Then he actually took it apart and dumped in upside down so it'd dry (just recently).
Then I asked come help me.. no.
'Because I don't want to.'

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

So F it, I'll do it myself. And it wasn't so hard. I just wasn't sure how, and he had said he'd help. But it's finally done.

Lets see what else the week brings.
I've got a fluid timeframe to see how things go and what to do pending how they go.
Still foolishly hope for the best,
But that inevitable another-serious-talk is coming. And it'll have to include deadlines & consequences.
I don't like it. I don't want it. But I'll have to.
We all know where this is going.
But it'd still be great if I could update this in the future and share how a miracle did happen ...
(Rhetorical / no comments required)

Sometimes the truth hurts a

Submitted by PoisonIvy on Mon, 08/29/2022 - 14:32

Sometimes the truth hurts a lot, before it helps.

My ex often said what he thought I wanted to hear, but his actions and occasionally his statements expressed the truth: For whatever reason(s), there were things he wasn't going to do for me or our children or our marriage. Once I internalized this truth, I was able to accept reality and create the life I wanted for myself.

You really need to consider

Submitted by sickandtired on Mon, 08/29/2022 - 15:50

This guy is telling you who he is, and you need to listen. He obviously wants you to do EVERYTHING without him helping. It seems like, even though he seemed receptive to Melissa's counseling, that nothing really registered with him and he's already forgotten or blown off your agreement. He's acting like a spoiled child, just like my ex and just like Poison ivy's ex. You are so lucky that you're not married to him and don't have children with him. It's so much easier to leave now than later. You don't want to be a mommy/ATM/servant/counselor to this helpless angry guy all of your life do you???? You need to talk more with your individual therapist about what is keeping you from leaving this guy. I think you are "in love" with the fantasy of an idea of him being mature, pleasant and reliable. He is not.
You may be missing out on meeting the real Mr. Right by hanging on to this very sad, very one sided relationship. I met my husband only a few months after I threw out my angry dependent ex. My husband is wonderful. He's loving, funny, responsible, has a wonderful stable career, he has lots of friends and is well respected and an absolute LUXURY compared to my ex. I was 60 when I met him, and I thank my lucky stars that I was single and available when he came into my life. I know you are so young, still in your 30's... so there's a LOT of guys out there who are miles better than this guy. It's not too late to really change your life for the better if you quit counting on miracles and look objectively at the depressing mess of a life you are setting up with this guy.

<3

Submitted by LahLah on Mon, 08/29/2022 - 15:55

Thank you ladies

No Update Yet

Submitted by LahLah on Wed, 09/07/2022 - 19:21

Another week gone, another week to conclude in disappointment. Many hours in the chair, on the laptop, claiming he's working on work. I do hope so. But I haven't been holding my breath for results.

"The truth hurts"
"This guy is telling you who he is, and you need to listen. He obviously wants you to do EVERYTHING without him helping... He's acting like a spoiled child"

I agree with both of these blunt statements.

But I'm still not "there" and intend to continue to give it more time (I feel you cringing, I know), unless/until nothing continues to happen from our former discussions for several more weeks and he can show no progress from his work, &/or, he blatantly disrespects me again calling me unacceptable names, or a few other decided deal-breakers. I hope the decided deal-breakers do not occur, obviously, but if they do, he'll have decided our future in the negative much quicker.

In the last week he DID: buy a white board/ task board and post its and magnets for visual physical task managing
And when I wanted his help with an appliance that wasn't working, when I said please come help me- I added 'and I don't mean tomorrow, I mean now please', he got up and came without argument. (Shouldn't be a noted win, should be a common courtesy, but compared to the other recent example of when I asked for help...).
And he again helped me when I was starting to experience a migraine, asking what he could do, and assisting me get remedies, and asking me throughout the day how I was feeling. (He is good about that)

And, I have continued to push back when he responds to me sarcastically or negatively, versus dwelling on it, letting it highly upset me, or not saying anything.
For example, when he made a repeat complaint about not being able to focus (it's been made nearly daily for weeks) and I asked/suggested a certain differing approach, he responded with a negative tone that he's already thought of/done/tried it (at least somewhat)... I simply said WELL, well, well. (the end). And another time when I got back home and asked him the situation with trash on the kitchen island, his knee jerk response was "I dunno". I said, "you're the one who's been home. I haven't." *eyeroll! He actually cleaned it up later!

Now I'm waiting to see how/if/when this new white board will get used (still new out of box for a few days) and if it results in ANY progress.

Just Keeps Going

Submitted by LahLah on Fri, 09/09/2022 - 15:19

I reminded him he needs to start utilizing his new board Thursday. He said he would work on 'only board things all day tomorrow' (as in not his comp). Today is tomorrow. I reminded him twice what he said.
The first time he said "I know". I said, "I know you know."
Few hours later. I mentioned it again while he was laying down. He said 'I know. I have a headache. That's what I'm doing right now'. I said "That's not an excuse". He said, "No, but it's a reason."
And I've left it for the day. His kids come over in a few hours. It's def not happening.
Maybe next week.
Every thing is always tomorrow or later.
It's almost getting "funny."

I keep waiting to see progress. Or to be cursed at again, or see a complete lack of progress over the next few months, &/or something else to fall.
If it goes the direction it currently seems to be going... this long sad blog will be a good reminder, hopefully a good lesson for others, and for myself. I know I've been trying.

If instead it's a success story, we'll all be surprised, but that'd be a great day.

Why are you waiting?

Submitted by adhd32 on Fri, 09/09/2022 - 17:47

It keeps going because you allow it to continue, you have no boundaries. Why is this life acceptable? You are codependent. You are still reminding him to do things, still making excuses, still waiting for a change that isn't coming. Instead of reminders ignore the mess, the undone tasks, and the lies for one week as a silent test of his dedication to sobriety, parenthood, and your relationship. HE has to want this enough to take control of it by HIMSELF. You cannot make him change, you cannot make him change, you cannot make him change, you cannot make him change...

BRAVO.

Submitted by AdeleS6845 on Fri, 09/09/2022 - 21:57

This is exactly it.

A grown adult ( ADHD or not ) shouldn't have to be hounded/reminded/nagged to do the most basic tasks.

The white board has to be his idea, one that works for him. If its important to him, he will do it. You're stuck in a cycle of : "Lather, rinse and repeat", day after day after week after month....its got to be exhausting.

Run

Submitted by Eighpryl_AB on Fri, 09/09/2022 - 18:16

My husband is easy by comparison to what you're describing with your fiance, but if I could have known how our life would play out, I probably wouldn't have married him. It's hard to say that with 4 amazing kids that are my whole life, but it's been a hard road. We've made a lot of progress since realizing that my husband has ADHD (he's very high-funtioning, independent, and capable in many areas), but it is still VERY difficult to be married to someone who can't get it together emotionally, financially, or organizationally. I'm stuck because we are so far in debt due to his poor planning and inability to think ahead.

The reason so many of us are telling you so emphatically to escape while you still can is that we can see our naive, younger selves in your optimism and hopefulness, and we're wishing we could tell our younger selves the same thing we're telling you. We're wishing we could save ourselves from the heartache we have known. If you are able to escape from what is inevitably coming, we will be cheering for a win, even if it isn't our own.

LahLah what is your payoff for staying?

Submitted by sickandtired on Sat, 09/10/2022 - 10:01

It's pretty obvious to all of us that you are in fact co-dependent. You feel compelled to do these basic things for him, like the constant reminders for him to follow through on his promises. When he constantly fails, I wonder if you have a need to be needed. Does being his caretaker give you some sense of purpose and make you feel good about yourself because you think you are helping him? Do you have a need to feel superior to your mate? Do you have a need to feel like the strong one in the relationship. Do you like taking on the parent role with your mate??? Please go over this issue with your individual therapist. There is something in YOUR mindset that is making you stay. Is it magical thinking of a naive young woman who has confused true love with co-dependence??? You said you had abusive, inattentive or incompetent men in the past, so there is something about these types of guys that you subconsciously find attractive, even though it is unhealthy for you. I say again.... you need to figure out WHY you are choosing these kinds of guys that can't hold up their end of the bargain. Can I ask you, have you EVER had a relationship with a normal guy who treated you kindly and as an equal???
I had a very good friend who constantly chose abusive men. It was unconscious of course... nobody says oh I want that guy because he will hit me...but without fail, her new guy would devolve onto an abuser. In between husbands, I fixed her up with a very nice, attractive funny successful guy. We went on a double date and I could see that she didn't seem to know how to react to a true gentleman. Later she told me she thought he was "boring". She ended up marrying a third abusive guy who was chronically unemployed. She died due to his neglect only 2 years later at age 39. Please don't be like my friend. Please make an effort to find out what is it inside YOU that draws you to such a dependent guy before it is too late. Many on this forum have told you that you can't fix him, he's not a remodeling project. You are magically thinking there will be some light bulb moment in his mind, but denying the fact that your life is being ruined by being his caretaker.

Thank you for your concern

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 09/11/2022 - 11:37

We've never met, but you and other women have been sharing your advice opinion and stories in an effort to help.
I don't consider myself codependent, but I've def recognized the pattern of some of my relationships and consider my part in them, and have some codependent tendencies whether I mean to or not.
I've become increasingly independent in my adult life, esp having finally being able to afford a place solo (Vs roommate not bf), living alone for a couple years (haven't gotten to since college, expensive area), and trying to work on myself both mentally/emotionally, and in my career.
I am grateful for my career and how it's been progressing for the last half decade (switched career fields). I worked for it, but have also been lucky, and am truly grateful.
I have never relied on a man to financially take care of me. I've worked since college. But I can finally afford to rent solo in this area, and I've def been frustrated feeling less comfortable doing so in the past. I'm still not rich, rent and buying is a crazy show around here, as it is many places. But I am doing well.
Emotionally though, I wish I was less sensitive, more demanding, and would quit being so ignorantly 'understanding' and patient and forgiving with guys. No one is perfect. But I have difficulty judging some questionable flags, wanting to give a person, and myself, a stronger chance.
I recently listened to an audio book about being a Highly Sensitive Person, what it means, and some consequences. And boy was it fitting. Even to the point of mentioning HSPs tend to attract men who like the empathy and somehow know consciously or not that ... whatever whatever.
Anyway. Yes, I like being in a relationship and feeling loved and important and wanting a partner and having someone consistent in my life and ~ why a lot of us like not being alone. Obviously.
But it doesn't mean I (consciously) want a man who lets me down, is not reliable, constantly disappoints me, is chronically irresponsible, &/or mistreats me.
Who does right. Even when they seem to.
My current relationship ... there were flags. Yes. But I want to accept an imperfect person as I want a person to accept me and my flaws. And also didn't realize ... I had no idea things would flip as they did once we got engaged and moved in together.
I thought after dating for 2 years, there wouldn't be such surprises.
My relationship-fear is that there could be, but I didn't think there would be. I never predicted what has been going down the last 5+ months. Not even.
I've since learned a lot about ADHD. And about him. And about him & his X. And ...

Honestly, a lot is still surreal.
First it was shocking. A bit maddening. Then disappointing. Then frustrating and stressful. To heart breaking. To ... a little less of all of that, as I've come to see what to (not) expect, as the initial shock wears off, and arguments and deep conversations fall flat again and again.
Now it's more sad & surreal.
But after getting this far ... after a long and great time dating ... to turn around so much ... + learn he had adhd + he just started meds after we moved in together. Moving is stressful. New meds and learning about yourself can be stressful. And I've read all over thah ADHD'ers may know they have a problem and need to address it and want to, but even addressing it can take months or more because ... they have adhd.
But it also doesn't excuse / isn't an excuse for every issue we've been experiencing.
Why don't I just call it and move on and get on with life.
Because I wanted to get on with life, with him. And while he's clearly showing me what that'd Really be like, I have to feel and know in every fiber of my being that what I thought was here isn't and won't be.
The surreal ness has to give way to stark reality.
I don't want to face it yet.
I feel I've been trying so much. I feel this can't be the reality. It CAN and WILL get better.
Until it really doesn't, OR even gets worse. I won't be able to take it anymore and I will have no doubts and will leave.
We aren't getting married until I 'know' we're good, but I am not ready to pack up. I'm getting there. But I'm not there. Why suffer? Because I can't leave, and wonder what if. Even if it's ignorant and painful. Even if I do leave in 2, 4, 6, 8 months and say yep... coulda done that sooner. Cause it's easier said than done, and once it goes a hard direction, I won't have regrets I tried, only that he was who he was.
If that makes sense.

About the board - he bought it, on his own, for himself, but after seeing it sit for days, I decided to remind him and offer to help. He has to do it himself, but I recalled that story about a woman who didn't wake her husband up for an anniversary dinner date, and she was so mad he didn't get himself up. Yes, I'm with her, I'd be mad too. We adults should be able to manage ourselves, and that's sad. But, the story also said maybe she set herself up for disappointment and anger, when she could have just helped both of them out and woken him up and gone and enjoyed dinner ... believe that was in Melissa's book. So I try to balance, 'he needs to do this himself and show me himself he will even try' and 'but what if my small nudge helps us both'.
IDK. Idk.

But I need to give it (x?) more time before saying, OK, you're content and this s* isn't changing, and I can't do this the rest of my life.

Note: I realize this blog is public, and if the day came HE saw it, he'd obviously completely disagree with it and call me crazy etc, and we'd be done. But I appreciate having this and your responses to help myself work things out in my mind, and check my sanity, and get tips, and vent, and am totally over sharing, but hope somehow it may help others eventually too.

Cognitive Dissonance

Submitted by 1Melody1 on Sun, 09/11/2022 - 13:19

Hey Lah Lah,

When I was with my ADHD husband, he was pretty great at the beginning. That years-long period of hyperfocus made him appear to be a good partner. Therefore my brain had no reason to believe he wouldn't be. I rightly believed my own experience. However, when the hyperfocus was suddenly gone and I was left with someone who broke promises, left me holding the bag on all the responsibilities and suddenly wasn't even that nice anymore, my brain could not reconcile this with the person I thought I knew. This is cognitive dissonance, which is a huge problem in ADHD relationships in my opinion, and keeps us trapped far too long. We keep waiting for that wonderful person we knew to come back. But he's never coming back. That person was a temporary apparition driven by ADHD hyperfocus.

This phenomenon is discussed in narcissistic relationships all the time. The narcissist intentionally presents as a wonderful partner but then flips the switch and the victim is left trying to reconcile what they're experiencing (hell) with what their brain is positive it knows (this person is wonderful).

With narcissists, there is malintent, and with ADHD hyperfocus, I don't believe that's the case. However, the result is still the same and it keeps non-ADHD partners trapped, hoping the great person we met will re-emerge. We "know" he's in there after all, right? But the reality is that the person driven by hyperfocus is never coming back.

I did not know this when I was with my ADHD husband, but I know for certain in retrospect that cognitive dissonance kept me confused and trapped for years. Here is an article about it as it pertains to narcissists: https://medium.com/@lenabarnum/how-narcissists-use-cognitive-dissonance-...

I hope professionals will soon start to understand and acknowledge that this deeply traumatic and confusing experience also exists for non-ADHD partners.

I know we all seem in a rush for you to get out of there - we have the hindsight benefit of having been through it. And I see your own frustration - you know what you're seeing, but you can't help but be hopeful because you've also seen the good. Based on the good, you created a vision in your mind of what you thought you'd have. That's not your fault. Your brain needs time to catch up here... to reconcile the dissonance. Knowing this is likely contributing to what you're going through may help speed things up. Be kind to yourself. You're processing a lot.

Thank you

Submitted by LahLah on Sun, 09/11/2022 - 14:03

Really appreciate your response, understanding, and insight <3

thank you

Omg this is happening to me!!

Submitted by sara86 on Wed, 09/14/2022 - 18:38

LahLah I read your story and can relate to most of it. I'm in the USA and have been dating a guy with ADHD for almost a year now and he's already spoken to me about getting married and moving in together etc. He has 2 kids from a previous relationship - 1 boy and 1 girl, 3 and 7 years (both were born from the same mother he had a toxic relationship with - and both kids were conceived during times they weren't together but had irresponsibly hooked up without using protection!). This was a red flag for me as I wondered if this 36 year old man is responsible and mature enough to make good decisions? I brushed it under the carpet thinking he's a great man and father and so what if he has 2 young kids?! They're here now! Anyways, as time passes on I realise that despite how kind, cuddly, affectionate, helpful and supportive he is, he is a terrible procrastinator, to the point where it makes me physically sick to hear him talk about what he wants to do but never takes any action to do it. He has a very low income and never has enough money for anything, despite him being able to find a better job. He decides to stay where it's comfy for him on a low wage and play victim every time we have a discussion about going on dates and holidays etc, because it's flexible for him where he is and he likes his co-workers. I'm always given the excuse his money is tight and that he always has a fear that I won't be happy with someone "broke", which means he's not planning on changing his situation anytime soon. He tells me that his friends all tell him that I'm way out of his league and are baffled why I'm with him. Despite his complaints and deep insecurities of not being "man enough" or a "provider" like he should be, there is no ambition, or drive or hunger to succeed and do well financially to feel better, he just loves using it as an excuse and staying where he is in life as a victim. So, he basically wants me to accept his broke life, rather than work hard to meet a higher standard for himself, me and his kids. From what I know, he has ALWAYS been broke and I wanted to help him change that, but failed. When I ask him why he doesn't take me on dates anymore or buy me any gifts or takes me away, he gets really upset and blames me for making him feel "not good enough" and that I trigger memories of ALL his exes cheating on him when they complained of the same thing.

He also promised to do a number of things for me around the house as his way of showing love. He will start one simple thing and finish it 4 months later, leaving my house a tip in the process - or he just never gets round to it, even with several reminders, but he will do other people's jobs like friends and his parents. He's getting comfy with me now that he has me and doesn't feel like he has to really try or impress anymore, and we aren't even engaged or married yet!

He gets SUPER moody like a child when I bring up an issue, refuses to talk about it, makes a huge unnecessary drama and spends the rest of the week being "off". He wants things to be perfect all the time and always gets defensive when I bring up something that bothers me. It's like dealing with a stroppy teenager. Most of the issues can be resolved by him by just acknowledging that I have a point to be upset and that he will fix xyz quickly, but he doesn't and we have to go through a whole drama until he stops making my issue about how he feels about it. He's always moody and very needy and like LahLah said, he will compensate for his shortcomings in massages, foot rubs, cuddles etc to make all other issues go away.

I'm very good with his 2 kids, I'm fortunate too that they love me, but I have got to a stage where I'm asking myself what I'm truly getting out of this? I have zero baggage, earn much more than him, have a nicer house, no kids, nice looking/in shape, more educated and from a great family and I'm taking all this on for the sake of having a good guy (I went through a string of horrible narcs before him and when I met him, who was super sweet and caring etc I held onto him). I know I used to be a codependent and I still have some in me, but this is the reason why I chose to stay and help him work through it.

Me and his ex don't talk at all, she's civil when I'm around but I don't know her personally, but even she told him this relationship won't last either and it's only now I'm understanding what she means and why she was the way she was with him (the toxic, disrespectful and crazy ex), as I can see how he can get a woman to that level of disrespect for him, as a result of him never doing what he says he will or offering much in return for what he's getting.

Encouraging him to do things with his life, get a better job etc is like pushing an elephant up the hill and I'm starting to feel like his mum (who tells me to be patient because he's a kind soul and worth it). However, all my friends are telling me I deserve so much better than this and the least I should get out of this situation is financial stability, a mature and loving man who can offer a home, dates, holidays and quality time with me aside from the time he has with the kids. At the moment all our time is spent with the kids when he has them and I'm a bit tired of always doing children's activities to be honest. I love them but when you aren't used to having kids of your own it's really tiring and boring (agree with you LahLah) especially when he has them for a week or 10 days at a time and we can't get much time alone other than at his place or my place after they've gone to bed.

It will hurt to break up with him, because he's been there for me through some tough times like my grandmother's death and he is very loving and affectionate, but I can't stand everything else and from the looks of what people are saying here, he won't change or improve. I mean if he wanted to be motivated to do better, he would have done it for his kids before me right? And a year is enough time to show some improvement to someone. I sympathise with his ADHD but I feel he will make me resent him when I'm constantly having to push and make the decisions and feel like the adult (and man) in the relationship. I'll also get bored if he's unable to afford to do the activities I'd like to do because I can and I don't want to be the idiot who pays for him every time so he can join in because he can't be bothered to pull his socks up and find ways to make more money. I'm losing respect for him because he's just acting far too weak and feminine, when I'd just love him to be the strong alpha male who takes care of me and I can depend on him.

Please seek help for yourself first

Submitted by jp03 on Thu, 09/15/2022 - 04:11

My jaw dropped reading this thread! Another beautiful soul destroying herself for a worthless man! Why???

You are putting yourself in the CLEARANCE rack being with this kind of man ( ADHD or not). No woman deserves this kind of pain while in a relationship!

The one who needs therapy now is not your partner, but yourself first. You severely lack life experiences, peer support, critial thinking, and probably have inner wound/ trauma that make you think you deserve this kind of man, and yet do not have the courage to live without him.

I could tell that your peace, your mind are now messed up because of him...You have a hurricane inside of you... and still not ready to leave yet..... I'm so angry... but not at you.... but at how this dating world is so messed up nowadays, that many people suffer because they never been taught how to navigate through life, or what to do to live the lives they deserve!

You are wasting your life for this man!! He WILL NOT change. His life has been a mess since before you. And please trust me, you or any woman, are not that special for him to change his behavior. It has to come from him, and he never done it.... and never will!

Please don't damage your values and your mental health living like this. Seek help from family and trusted friends, and please go to therapist. You need to sort out your inner wound first, and get yourself out of the clearance rack!

And please remember that somewhere out there, good men are praying to meet good souls like yours. They might be hopeless right now because many good women decide to destroy themselves for worthless men. Get yourself out and learn to love yourself, with or without a man. It will hurt like hell at first, but YOU decide when to lift yourself up again and live this life.... FOR YOURSELF!

No getting through

Submitted by adhd32 on Thu, 09/15/2022 - 15:44

Hi jp. I tried, you tried, Melissa tried, and so have many others have too. Some people love drama and get a rush from sharing it. I've grown tired of reading about the excuses, drinking, lies. What is the pay off? Having a man? Not sure what the motivation is to stay. Obviously there is more to it.

There have been others in the years I have been following this page. They beg for a simple answer to change their spouse and while they agree that what they have isn't working they don't like that it isn't in their power to change the spouse. But this, but that whenever a solution is offered.

Bottom line is what you see is what you get, either take it and accept this is your reality or move on.

He has to want to change more than anyone else.

I am listening

Submitted by LahLah on Thu, 09/15/2022 - 09:05

I am reading the new responses and appreciate the heart felt stories, opinions, and advise.
I am so sorry so many have experienced similar and worse, and for longer.
I am still thankful for your time and thoughts, and the ability to 'check my sanity' in a place where others may relate and understand the struggles at hand.
I do often feel awkward or guilty over-sharing so much, and in a 'public' space, but also appreciate taking advantage of the anonymity of it and getting to share my struggles and receiving honest feedback about it.
We aren't experts (minus at least one). We can't say and don't know exactly what is right for others and can only speak from experience and out of compassion, empathy, concern, and understanding.
But few things in life are easily clearly black and white like math.
Thank you for this space, and for your time and thoughts and caring!

I...... Yeah.

Submitted by LahLah on Thu, 09/15/2022 - 12:31

I am learning more and more today.
Essentially that a lot of the details of our prior conversations and what he told me, about his career, his career changes, his leaving to try his own thing... may not have been exactly accurate/honest.
He wanted to do his project and was increasingly unsatisfied working, but may or may not have been encouraged to leave versus his claim that they begged him to stay.
And, years before, he may have tried to branch out on his own, in a different way, but was declined by the future client, and he HID IT from his wife.
She only found out because she found the denial letter when cleaning out to move out of their place post-separation.
He never told me about that. Understandable to not want to share past things that feel like or were failures and were huge disappointments, but to lie to his wife about it... that's not good!
He told her he Decided to go a different direction.
And after that happened years ago he continued to become increasingly dissatisfied at jobs (understandably so after that), and his attitude and drinking got worse and worse, and he may have been increasingly negative towards her, to the point that, after years, she had had enough.
Then only a few months after their separation, I came in the picture. And (of course) heard a lot of these things in a different light, or not at all.
I'm not saying anyone should, or be expected to, share every failure embarrassment or disappointment in their new relationships. In fact, I wouldn't advise it!
But painting a picture that makes yourself look like more of a victim, and not being fully accountable for your part, blaming the other person(s), and sharing past stories in a false light...
Not good either.
I don't know what to think anymore. I won't fully take her side of the story. He said she said. But from what I've been feeling and experiencing, I do believe there's truth to it. And that's another major blow.
But while I process all these things, responses, advise, my own thoughts, etc, I am still of the mind of waiting to see, and to try.
This morning I just sent him a suggested get-away we could take, for ourselves, soon, just to get out of the house and town and have some fun personal quiet time. He's on board. We just gotta plan it.
But so far, for the rest... it's Thursday... no signs of progress or the care about the lack thereof, regarding previous conversations and plans I've mentioned.
I keep thinking, wait another week...
Ok, wait ANOTHER week....
Well, let's give it another week....
Maybe next week....
He does have ADHD.... this is a known issue... Even being known doesn't mean he'll be able to flip a switch and totally turn it around....
Maybe THIS week.
Ok... no... maybe next week....

And as I've shared before, that's where I'm at. Trying to process it. Continuing to check my sanity and my part. Continuing to watch and wait.
And give myself time.
Honestly. I prefer the surreal-ness of late, waiting to see, and not wanting to think too much about it. I am giving myself that time/space to go with the surreal-ness feeling versus try to decide things, make conclusions, or figure out if I could live this way or what to do.
Not yet. I need time.

And I feel a bit shaky today. And didn't feel so great yesterday. It's a lot to process. Hence I have been deciding it's OK to give myself time.
As someone else thankfully said - give myself patience and time.

---------

Updated later:

More new news. Very different stories. But they make sense.
So not good.
I can't stay in this life and keep going down.
But I have to give myself time to emotionally/mentally prepare to leave, and then start taking actions.

Then don't go down then leave

Submitted by connorbarwin on Thu, 09/15/2022 - 14:03

Then don't go down then leave him if you keep going say this stuff about him

I know…

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 09/15/2022 - 15:23

I'm sending you a hug. It's hard to change course emotionally, even when logically you tell yourself you're there. I've been right where you are now, afraid of the emotional pain to come. Please look at it as you mustering the courage to step out of your comfort zone. It may feel unpleasant right now, but you need to think about your whole life ahead of you.

I did it.

Submitted by LahLah on Mon, 10/24/2022 - 12:12

Enough became enough.
After all my efforts, that I could think to try; different approaches in how I communicated, seeking professional help, trying to be patient and wait and see, clearly stating my needs...
Things were not improving, and sometimes getting worse.
He finally pushed until I was done.
I told him I wanted to end things, to break off the engagement, and not live together. I did not see a future together, and wanted both of us to move on to find someone who may be a better match for each of us.
For about 2 weeks he then cycled between trying to persuade me to stay and we work things out, and insulting and berating me when I continued to decline.
This mood/personality/reaction flip-flop over and over only further reassured me I was making the right decision, even though I already knew. But somehow the rage and insults still shocked me.
I ended up staying over at friends to get away from the verbal abuse (or continued conflict) promptly, but I had to go back a few times in between. I had hoped to stay in the new place, but since he did not want to deal with moving, I moved out.
During the move day he continued to press that we should still be friends and hang out, and he can come over to mine or me to his to watch shows together, etc.
I tried to stay polite and neutral, not promising nor declining, while I worked on getting out.
After I moved, I thanked him for his politeness during the move day. He gave me flowers as a "move in gift"...
The next day he sent me several text messages, as if we were friends or not much had changed.
I gave short answers, or ignored them all together.
He asked if I was 'giving him the cold shoulder again, [he] thought we were past that, but if I prefer he give me space again, let him know'.
I said yes, that is my preference.
He has honored it so far, but it's only been 1 day.
I unfortunately do not expect this to be the end. Regardless how many times I repeated I was leaving him, he wanted to persuade or fight it, until he decided his new approach would be to decide we could remain "best friends," which I did not respond to.
In time, I hope he can accept that we are done, sooner than later, and in a healthy way.

It goes without saying that our 2 years of dating was not comparable, or did not prepare me for, our 6 months living together. I've been told it's good I saw that NOW versus after getting married. I wholly agree. It just didn't make it feel better at the time. But that's very true. He apparently took the engagement as basically being married, and tried to tell me I was breaking my commitment, giving up, didn't try, didn't give him a chance, was flaky, shallow, crazy, a liar, didn't know what love was, and so on...
I do not regret waiting to make my final decision, as I feel confident that I know I tried, and this was the right decision. It could have been made sooner, but I wanted no doubts, and was still mentally catching up to the new reality of things.
It still feels surreal. Especially standing in my new apartment now. Solo, not engaged, and starting another new chapter in my life.
I am trying to take one day at a time and hope for the best.
Or at least, take one day at a time, and look forward not back.

Thank you to those who tried to offer their support and understanding to me during this incredibly challenging and heart breaking time.

I’m happy for him I hope he

Submitted by lakers1123 on Mon, 10/24/2022 - 17:30

I’m happy for him I hope he find somebody that can’t support for how he is instead of not being neurotypical

Hmmmmm.

Submitted by AdeleS6845 on Mon, 10/24/2022 - 20:47

Gosh this post from lakers1123 sounds awfully familiar..

Hugs, LahLah

Submitted by 1Melody1 on Mon, 10/24/2022 - 20:55

Way to go on making the healthy choice for you. ♥️

BRAVO

Submitted by adhd32 on Wed, 10/26/2022 - 10:08

So glad for you.

Good for you!

Submitted by sickandtired on Mon, 10/24/2022 - 14:10

LahLah I am so proud of you! I've been wondering/worrying what had happened. I know it's hard to leave, and it will be hard for him to believe you are actually totally done in the relationship. Please don't let his efforts to suck you back in dissuade you in fighting for your freedom. My ex boyfriend years ago threatened suicide if I didn't let him back in, and I fell for it, only to find that he went right back to being mean, paranoid, controlling and lazy as soon as he felt secure with me again. It's a good idea to be prepared if he knocks at your door or calls you begging to get back into any kind of relationship. You've done the hard work moving out... don't EVER let him take your freedom away from you again.
Hugs and congratulations!

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