I'm not sure how we got in this very difficult pattern, but my non-Add husband is completely frustrated with me over my lack of response to sexual intimacy. Historically I was always the one to worry about the level of sexual contact or physical response, but it seems now that my husband is keeping score. He is responding negatively to my "missing" the cues and is mad when I don't respond enthusiastically enough to him. For example, yesterday I returned home at 12:00 midnight after supervising 34-8th graders on a weeklong class trip. When I didn't jump in bed and grab him for a long passionate kiss I was "in trouble." This pattern happens daily. I'm not responding and he gets mad. There is so much more to the story, but in short, I am feeling hurt, inadequate, and frankly depressed and tears come often. I love my husband very much, but I regularly fall short. I'm a teacher with a two hour daily commute, and a mother to two teen sons who struggle in school, and I'm not being sexual enough. It's tearing me up. What have others done to deal with this?
We haven't solved it either
Submitted by sapphyre on
But I'm the non-ADD one lol
Women are not sexual all the time! We don't have the reserves men have. He's probably expecting too much of you, perhaps because you hyperfocused on him in the past? Maybe he thought you were a nymphomaniac and now has to deal with reality.
It is perfectly normal (for a woman, at least) not to be interested in sex after getting home at midnight after a long trip. He's being ridiculous, regardless of what history you have together.
Hyperfocus? You're right!
Submitted by kapowsin on
Wow, you are right, I did hyperfocus on him during our courtship...he's even said that it seemed like we'd switched places; now he's the one who can't get enough. (Like he really complained about it when we were dating!) I also think he is going through a midlife moment, in a very intense way, so I'm sure there will be more to talk about in the days to come about my giving more attention to our relationship. The ADD aspect definitely plays into the equation, so I'll need to think about that, which also takes up energy. It's a journey. Thanks for the comment.
Doing too much?
Submitted by Nettie on
I read a lot of complaints on this forum about things not getting done. The field isn't getting mowed. Don't own a field. The litter box isn't getting emptied. Don't own a cat. I have a two-hour commute. Get a closer job.
We all have to make choices/set priorities, and people with ADHD often take on too much, maybe because of the adrenaline high. Or, maybe adrenaline levels are low from doing too much, and important things are neglected because there isn't enough energy to go around. Make your priority list, arrange your life to fit it, then practice and adjust.
About the intimacy issue, I recently went to a Women with ADHD support group meeting, which featured a sex therapist. Unfortunately for her, she'd been asked to speak about low sex drive to a group of mostly high-drive women, but she did slip in the name of a book, "Mating in Captivity," before the group turned the focus to how to get more from life.
Should't have to give up what you are because spouse has ADD
Submitted by Sueann on
I disagree with your premise. People should be able to have a normal life even if they are married to someone with ADD.
Asking us to have our cats put to sleep (that's what happens when you take them to shelters) is like saying give up your left arm because your husband has a disorder. I guess you could say to me "Don't get hit by a car" but I don't think it would have done any good. Maybe the lady who hit me had ADD, who knows.
But people have lives. Mine has always included cats, and always included caring for them. Now I'm 56 and years of overusing the injured leg have left me unable to do it. Why is it wrong for me to expect my healthy husband, who loves the cats as much as I do, to empty their litter box? Why should you (or anyone else) expect me to give up an important part of my life because my husband has ADD?
Melissa will probably delete this because it's not very nice but I feel like asking me to give up my cats, or the lady above to give up her job, because of a treatable disorder is ridiculous. People with ADD need to live in the real world, where people have pets and lawns that need to be mowed and jobs.
Sewing Challenged
Submitted by Nettie on
One of the challenges with this forum is that sometimes people forget to click the "reply" link under the particular comment on which they are commenting. I'm sure I've done it myself, too. This thread has gone askew as people seem to be commenting here about a different thread. Admin, is there a different way in which to display comments/threads? I've seen it done differently, but then the problem of complexity makes it more challenging.
So, I guess that means we should get rid of the kids then?
Submitted by sapphyre on
Hi Nettie
I'm talking about stuff like washing the school uniforms on the weekend. Making sure everyone has clean underwear and socks.
I live in Australia. 99% of schools have a school uniform here, before you say "Send your kids to a school without a uniform."
So, regularly I send the kids to school in dirty uniforms on a Monday morning. I mainly keep on top of the underwear issue (because someone has to), but we all regularly wear socks that have been worn all day or even two days before. {ADHD hubby puts his in the dryer to freshen them}
It sounds like your attitude is - adapt to the ADHD person. I've done that! I've given up all my social activities and life outside the family and suffered for it. I developed Anxiety & Depression and adrenal fatigue, and we still had a filthy house with hoarding in it. After years of counselling and a new vitamin regime, I am now healthy again, but officially obese.
While he, who never wants to change, has just had his first psychotic episode - from sleep deprivation caused by running out of his pain killers - because he couldn't manage his meds properly. And he gets upset at the kids not learning from consequences :(
I'm venting, please forgive me.
I agree with Nettie
Submitted by brendab on
"Make your priority list, arrange your life to fit it, then practice and adjust."
The reason I agree with her basic premise is that most people take on too many responsibilities and then often feel overwhelmed. For example, when my children were at home, my ex always wanted to get a dog, but I held my ground and we never had a dog in our home. I have very strong opinions about living with a dog and I knew that no one would agree to take the responbility to meet my standards. And I had my hands full with a job and 4 kids. I was not willing to be the dog's caretaker too.
If I had caved into their desire for a dog, I would have been so upset when an untrained dog chewed up my things, peed on my carpet, shed on my furniture, smelled like a dog, had fleas, barked a lot, and always had an empty food bowl. Everytime they would start their whine about getting a puppy, I would think about all the work I would inherit. I also wasn't willing to nag my family into taking care of the dog to my standard so the word "no dog" flowed easily from my mouth.
I cannot set priorities for anyone else. All I am saying is that everyone can always examine their life and simplify. Be careful not to add any unnecessary work into your life especially if you are dealing with ADD. If your life is too complicated then it would be helpful for you to examine everything that sucks your time and life out of you. Then like Nettie wrote
"Make your priority list, arrange your life to fit it, then practice and adjust"
Brenda
You still want the Non-ADD Spouse to Accomodate
Submitted by Sueann on
My husband knew I was handicapped when he married me. I didn't know he had depression and ADD. If he didn't want to put in the extra work to accomodate the fact that I'm not as physically able as most wives, he shouldn't have married me.
I don't expect him to feed our cats, just go out the back door, which is not very accomodating to me, and empty their litter box. Maybe, MAYBE 5 minutes every other day. Why is that too much to ask of any able bodied person?
Why should I be expected to give up parts of my life so he can sit and state at a computer? I worked 2 jobs for 3 years while he wouldn't work. I worked the census last year even though I thought I would die from the pain of that much walking. Why should the ADD person get a free pass?
People need ways to get the expected things done. If the lawn isn't mowed, according to our lease, the landlord can evict us. Also, the city can mow our lawn at a cost of $250. It's not a field, it's a lawn, and the only other alternative to a lawn is living in an apartment, which I hate. When he does it, it takes him 20 minutes. When I do it, it takes over 2 hours. So why shouldn't he do it?
We aren't Martha Stewart housekeepers. We just do what needs to be done to keep the landlord happy and pass the city inspections. There isn't one thing I expect him to do that isn't required by law or by our lease or basic rules of hygine. Maybe you think I should live in a tent so he doesn't have to do anything, but I don't. I'm sorry he has ADD but I'd trade for my physical problems so fast your head would spin, and then I'd learn to work with my ADD to meet the expectiations of normal life.
both views are valid
Submitted by arwen on
Gals, there is truth in both of these views.
There *are* some things some ADHDers just simply can't do. For example, my husband does try and try, but the truth is that at some times of the year he can't handle more than X number of responsibilities, his brain just can't keep track of more, even with his PDA and other tools. There's no use in me demanding that he handle more. He would if he could. He can't. This is something that I have to accommodate if I want things to get done -- or find a way to do without anybody handling what is too much for him.
But, there are plenty of things that ADHDers *can* learn to do. Learning them is pretty hard work, and it takes time and help. But there's no reason why an ADHDer can't work as hard as a non-ADHD spouse -- and they should. Even if they are working as hard, or possibly even harder, than the non-ADHD spouse, they may not get as much done, or done as well -- please note, I don't say that an ADHDer should be expected to work however hard it takes to be as organized or communicative or productive as a non-ADHDer -- I think that can put an excessive burden on the ADHDer in some households. But they certainly have no excuse to work less hard.
At the same time, I don't think it's reasonable to demand that they constantly work harder than the non-ADHD spouse -- that's not fair either. There has to be some degree of balance. As I mentioned, there are times when my spouse just can't handle much. But since there are also times he can handle more, with less effort, I expect him to shoulder more responsibilities then. Throughout our marriage, there have been times when he's worked harder, and other times when I've worked harder. But when all is said and done, I think our total amounts of effort will have wound up pretty much on a par.
But I don't think Nettie was trying to say that ADHDers should be allowed to work less hard! I think she was just trying to say that the ADHDer and non-ADHDer ought to take a hard look at their lives and streamline whatever they reasonably can. In her life, mowing the yard may not be much of a priority, so perhaps she used that example without realizing that for others, it may be a requirement of residence. I'm quite sure she was not advocating putting kids up for adoption!!!
In my view, it's also important to consider whether a decision to take on something (house, pets, whatever) was done with a clear understanding of the responsibilities involved before it was acted on. For example, when my husband and I lived in another state, I had to really get on his case to mow the lawn or do other home maintenance. As a result, when we moved to our present state, I insisted that we seriously consider the alternative of a condo, to reduce his responsibilities (this was all before we knew he had ADHD). We looked at condo's as well as houses. The two places he liked best were houses with good-sized yards. I looked him square in the eye and said, "These places have a lot of grass. I REFUSE to keep hounding you about the mowing -- are you going to do it willingly on your own? No 'pie-crust' promises!" [That's a reference from Mary Poppins -- "That's a pie-crust promise, easily made, easily broken."] He concluded that he would be willing and able to do it faithfully without reminding if he had a riding mower, and I agreed we could afford to get a used one. The point is, we made the decision together, and he gave it real thought. To my mind, that put him squarely on the hook, and absolved me from any need to accomodate him on this issue.
If he had not wanted a place with so much yard, to reduce his mowing responsibilities, but I had begged and wheedled to get him to agree, my feelings about the situation would be different, and I would feel that I did have some obligation to accommodate him on this score.
Obviously, however, even if decision are made with clear understanding of responsibilities, situations can change. There was a period of time where my husband's job required him to do extensive travelling. It was very difficult for him to mow the grass in a timely manner during this period -- too often when he was home, and able to mow, the weather did not cooperate. So it was necessary to figure out some other solution. Since we couldn't afford to hire someone outside to do it, I did the mowing, despite severe grass pollen allergies, by wearing an N95 mask while I cut the grass, and then showering immediately after. During this period, I had to accommodate him (although, granted, not in regard to his ADHD in this case). But once his travelling wound down, the onus was back on him.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think one has to apply common sense to this issue: streamlining and accommodation both have appropriate roles in dealing with ADHD. Streamlining is harder to do once an obligation has been taken on, obviously, but that does not put it out of consideration. Accommodation is distasteful and sometimes even deplorable, but sometimes the only alternative is to cut off your nose to spite your face -- never a worthwhile approach, in my view. How much of each should be done depends on the individuals, to some extent, I think, but I frankly can't see how the relationship could work if it were all one way or all the other.
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
expectations
Submitted by brendab on
Sueann,
I am an expert at having expectations that only serve to disappoint me. I truly do understand where you are coming from, and I certainly didn't mean that you had to give up anything that is important to you. I really believe that both spouses should learn to accommodate. I was reading a book yesterday that explained to me a huge problem I created by having my own set of internal expectations. I did expect my husband to do certain things when I expected them to be done, and do them to certain standards. If he didn't perform I was quick to judge and complain to myself about what a jerk he was to treat me this way. Here is a quote from the book, and he really did use lawn mowing as an example.
"Fixed roles create expectations, and expectations imply guarantees. For example, if a wife sees mowing the lawn as her husband’s role, that role creates in her mind the expectation that he will cut the grass when it gets tall. If he does not, he has violated the “guarantee.” Her expectation turns to disappointment or even anger, and conflict results. If a husband believes that meal preparation is the wife’s role, he will be upset if supper is not on the table when he gets home from work. His wife has not fulfilled the “guarantee” implied in his expectation, which is based on his perception of her “role”. "
(then he goes on to explain a better way to approach marriage) If there are no expectations, there are no fixed roles. Marriage then becomes a relationship based on responding to needs rather than adhering to rigid preconceptions. If a husband and wife have no rigid role expectations, neither will be disappointed.
A response-based approach to marriage will bring a deep, fresh, and new dimension to the relationship. Married couples will experience greater success and happiness the more they learn how to relate without fixed roles.
A roleless relationship in a marriage does not mean that nobody does anything or that the couple takes a random or haphazard approach to their life. On the contrary , it is important for the husband and wife to come to a clear and mutual understanding of how things will be done. A relationship without fixed roles does mean that each partner will respond according to need, ability, and opportunity." The Purpose and Power of Love and Marriage
As I read this, I realized that this sounds so much like what Arwen posts here. She writes a lot about having meetings to determine what needs to be done and who has the ability to do it. I didn't do that but what I did instead was to take on almost all the work and I built such resentment that I am divorced today from a non-adder. This wasn't the only problem, but it was a huge one.
If I marry again it will be a roleless marriage with weekly meetings. I think this is a huge factor that makes Arwen's marriage thrive today. But I do realize that it takes two to make this happen and you may not have a spouse who cares enough to try.
For a lighter ending to this post, last year I seriously considered moving into a tent! LOL but I thought it would be too much daily work! Instead I moved into a camper and I have a real challenge controlling clutter. but I am single, no husband, kids or pets to complicate my life and very soon I will quit my job and take off on my traveling adventure.
Brenda
My Husband does not expect traditional gender roles
Submitted by Sueann on
My husband was raised by a working mom much more successful than her husband, who, we are convinced, had ADD. My husband, IN HIS MIND, does not expect his wife to do all the household tasks.
It was complicated by the fact that a lot of household tasks cause me a lot of pain and even danger (from falls). I've fallen in our laundry room when alone and not been able to get up. So now, I want him to do the laundry, not because he's a man but because he loves me and it hurts and I'm scared to. Same thing with mowing the lawn. I don't want to get evicted, and I don't want to fall while doing it, while my able-bodied husband plays on the computer. It's not a matter of remembering to do it, I can remind him, just him being willing to do it.
He turned this whole thing on its head when we'd only been married 6 weeks. I did have the expectation that my husband would work. I told him I would not marry him until he had an insurance-bearing job because I needed insurance and my job, indeed my whole industry, does not offer it. So when we'd only been married 6 weeks, he did that job in a most ADD way and got fired. Even as a newly-wed, he could not think that if he lost his job, his wife (who he claims to love) could die. Then for almost 3 years he did not work. Medical treatments had to be postponed 3 years while I struggled to pay the rent and keep our house heated.
So no, I don't feel like letting him get away with giving in to his ADD or using it as an excuse for laziness. I'm not giving up any more of my life to his problem. He can just deal with it like I do with my mobility issues. I'll help him, remind him, whatever, but I'm not going to be evicted or fall and injure myself worse so he can say, "I can't, I've got ADD."
Yes, all cats and children should be sheltered
Submitted by Nettie on
OMG, did I write "kill the cats?"
BTW, the first poster HAS ADHD, so I wasn't suggesting any non-ADHDer accomodate ADHD behavior; I was suggesting the person with ADHD might want to simplify his or her life. As it applies to everyone, the issue is in the making of the initial choice.
I haven't even read the remaining comments since I was appalled by the comment about killing cats. (I'll read them in a bit.) BTW, I have a stuffed cat (no, don't jump to conclusions again - I didn't stuff a real one - it's a toy) on my sofa because I want a cat really badly, but I travel too much to care for one properly right now.
*Sniff* *Sniff* Now labeled a cat hater, ~Nettie
No, Nettie, I don't think you hate cats
Submitted by Sueann on
I'm the writer of the "kill the cats" comment, and I used it to make a point which I think you do agree with. Once a decision is made (get a pet, have a baby, buy a house, take a better job further away from where you live, whatever) both the ADD spouse and the non-ADD spouse have to live with it. You can't ignore the kid, sent the pet to a shelter, move, whatever, because one spouse has ADD. It isn't fair to the child or the pet.
Has anyone else thought about how complex and expensive our lives are today? We have to pay for cable, internet and cell phones, which didn't exist when we were growing up. It costs so much more to live a "normal life" these days, and it puts so much pressure on people. People feel like they have to have that better job even if they have to commute a long way. We do need to figure out how to live with ADD. I don't know what the answer is, I"ve never had much success figuring out to live with my handicap and my husband.
Yay for kitties!!
Submitted by jules on
Aw, Nettie .... I hope you can get a real kitty soon - they are the best :)
Wow! so much opened up
Submitted by ExitSpeed on
This post/forum opened up so much for me. I now understand why my wife does the things she does. I thought she wasn't interested in me, but I now know that's not the case. She matches ALL these symptoms described by many on this post. Thank you so much.
I have a couple of questions to try and understand her better, hopefully someone has had a good experience with their ADHD spouse:
1. My wife leaves things unfinished, so many of them, except for when her mom or immediate family members ask. Then she gets in this frenzy to finish it. Any reason why I dnt have this effect on her?
2. What is it that causes her to not want to be close to me? is it that she has too many thoughts going on in her head? is it that she's just not able to focus on me? what can make her non-ADHD spouse less attractive to her than all the errands she runs around to accomplish? I guess what I'm also asking in the question is: what are the types of tasks that keep an ADHD person's attention and interest?
3. What exactly in ADHD causes you to get EASILY frustrated with tasks that so many can easily accomplish?
Any suggestions?
thanks so much!
ExitSpeed (no I'm not exiting anything :) )