Submitted by arosenbarger on 12/28/2015.
My wife is looking to get divorced after five years of marriage. She says I get focused on a task or a slight, become frustrated - voice a passive aggressive statement or a mean comment, then once that is spouted - I'm fine. But I leave her hurting in the meantime.
The stimulus creating the frustration is unimportant - the fact that I take out my anger on my wife, is horrid.
I want to be clear - I do not physically harm anyone, only with my mouth.
I need to control it better.
My friend, who isn't ADHD, said, "what do you want more - to be married and keep your mouth shut or spout it off and be divorced?" Was good perspective. I am defensive and mean.
Does anyone else ever feel like this?
Hi,
Submitted by MrsB on
Hi,
Your friend is right, "what do you want more - to be married and keep your mouth shut or spout it off and be divorced?" But it doesn't mean you have to be silent. Have you seen a therapist? Finding someone who can help you get control over your reactivity so that you can be constructive rather than destructive is going to help you and your relationships is the future. If your wife is willing to see a marriage counselor, find one who can help you two work on listening and talking to each other. Gottman Method therapists are very good at teaching people new ways of communicating. You can also read Non-Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg to help you get a handle on how to share frustrations and disappointments in a way that your wife can hear you and not feel dumped on.
Thank you for the insight.
Submitted by arosenbarger on
Thank you for the insight.
The communication error is from me, not my wife. Only recently have I come to understand what she means by hurtful statements and by mapping it on a calendar - I saw the frequency in which I would make mean spirited or passive aggressive statements. Roughly once or twice a week.
I knew I was, what I considered "short tempered" but I did not know was hurting her with such frequency.
My goal is to show her I will get a handle on it, and then go to counseling.
It would not be kind to take her to counseling when she hasn't done anything wrong and has tried to communicate the best she could with me.
Hmmm, What should Liz say to you. . . . . .
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Hello Andrew,
I read your previous posts. I see we have both been part of this forum for a bit over 5 years. I will get straight to the sentence in this post that jumped out at me: "My goal is to show her I will get a handle on it, and then go to counseling. "
I am not a counselor. I am a wife of 31 years, a mother, a daughter, a long time member of Al-Anon, and a searcher and seeker of answers. Assigning blame is not on my radar. My 26 year old son is ADHD, discovered when he was 8 years old. My husband is 58. While I suspected for quite a while that he was ADHD, it was not confirmed until August of 2010.
I will go out on a limb here by plainly stating that you appear to have the tail wagging the dog. Seek to find a way to get a handle on things with which you struggle by going to counseling. THAT ACTION will say volumes to her.
The purpose of counseling is to help you find alternatives and suggestions you have not thought of on your own. Counseling is NOT to fix you, or tell you the answers. It is to help you help yourself. Because you WANT to do things better.
Does that make any sense to you Andrew?
With sincerity,
Liz
She says I get focused on a task or a slight, become frustrated
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
<<<
She says I get focused on a task or a slight, become frustrated - voice a passive aggressive statement or a mean comment, then once that is spouted - I'm fine.
<<<
Soooooo...you allow yourself the right to "lash out" and inflict pain onto your wife, that feels good to you (which is why you're "fine" after you do that), and you wonder why your wife wants to divorce you?
Hmmm....what if someone were angry at you and they got to do the "first blow" (whatever that may be...a punch, horrible words, break something of yours, etc), and then they got their "licks" in and feel fine, but they don't understand why you want to get away from them. Really???
You need anger management if you hope to keep your wife. You lash out (which are VERBAL slugs) and then you expect her to be fine once you're fine. Not happening. Not fair.
You need help.
Yup. You hit the nail on the
Submitted by arosenbarger on
Yup. You hit the nail on the head.
I grew up within a passive aggressive environment and it appears I have not grown past the behavior. I love my wife dearly and have been showing the love horribly. This comes out when stressed, tired, etc. It's not how I wish to convey myself, especially to her.
It's an aspect of my life in which I wish to work on to better myself, but truly articulate how I care and do so consistently, not having such verbal jabs. I have been working on it by venting my frustrations with myself her, seeking support through support groups and therapy, reading up on the behavior, and finally - maybe getting a tattoo on my wrist to remind myself to SHUT UP - as I am not thinking clearly and should NOT speak.
While calm and rational.....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
While calm and rational, you may think that a tattoo with a reminder would work.....but it won't. When you're upset, you're not rational, and you lack self-control.
I know this because I'm married to this. My H literally cannot stop himself when it comes to me. He can stop himself with others, but not with me.
He also grew up in an extremely passive aggressive home, but also a home where he learned to "lash out" with physical blows between males (never females). So, with me, since he can't hit me, he resorts to other extremes....horrible words, calling me names, breaking my things, etc.
When he's calm and rational, he is horrified by his behavior (most of the time). But, when he's in the midst of his emotions, he's like a freight train and nothing (no reminder) is going to stop him. BECAUSE he feels a momentary "relief" of personal pain when he lashes out. He's in emotional pain, and his "fix" is to lash out. At that moment, he feels relief.
If he's verbally abusive enough, then he feels very relieved, and actually wants to make up. ha ha. Not me. I want nothing to do with him at that point. But, since he's experienced the DRUG of pain relief after lashing out, he doesn't understand why I am not willing to make up, and why I'm still angry.
Your past does not have to become your future
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Something I learned a long time ago - once a person identifies behaviors that they no longer wish to have in their life, they must learn new behaviors to replace the negative ones.
I have an acquaintance, who is mentally and physically abusive to his wife and children. He grew up in that very same atmosphere - and greatly disliked it. He swore he would "never do that to his family" and yet he does. His son, grew up with a Dad who hated his own childhood , yet treated his family the same way. Now the son, who greatly disliked the atmosphere in which he grew up, and swore he would "never do that to his family", seems by all outside observations, to be doing the exact same thing. Generation after generation after generation.
Wishing alone will not change things. It is imperative to learn new behaviors to replace those that you no longer wish to have.
I also believe "shut up" in not the answer. That could cause the internal pressure to build and build and build until you explode. A person must be able to acknowledge and identify a problem, then be willing to learn ways to change it. It sure seems you have identified and acknowledged the issues with which you struggle. Now I encourage you to go to that counselor, say something along the lines of "I do such-and-such, I do not know why, I do not like it, it causes problems in my marriage, can you help me learn to change it?"
Very Truly,
Liz
Thank you for the feedback.
Submitted by arosenbarger on
Thank you for the feedback.
You are correct - I do not wish to share this aspect of me with my children. Currently working on the identification part of it. I am seeing a counselor again, myself, and going from there.
My fear is that I forgot my emotional liability and become the jerk I am currently seen as.
Some Things That Will Help
Submitted by kellyj on
Andrew,
Some things that might help you get started which will help in other areas too. The first thing is to stop labeling yourself and beating yourself up. All that negativity is coming solely from you. Your wife or other people may have made negative comments about you in the past....but there is no sense in adding fuel to the fire and making it worse by being your own worse enemy. You do teach other people how to treat you and if you go around calling yourself derogatory names yourself....this will not make anyone want to treat you any differently than they see you doing that to yourself. The only thing that most people will not be very forgiving about is flying off the handle and getting angry at them for no reason. I would imagine...your wife has other things that are related to your ADHD that she might complain about....but really when you think about it....getting angry at other people because YOU have ADHD is not going to go over well no matter where you go and right now in particular all things considered.....you need to do something to prove to your wife that you are serious and you are committed to changing a few things. Your anger would be the first one I would put on your list for sure.
There are some things that I did that really did help me get that part under control which you don't have to wait for therapy to start. In fact....you can start today as far as that goes but first.....to reiterate about emotional liability. The goal is not to try and stop getting angry ever. That is unreasonable and not even practical. But with the EL portion which is contained in the title in your post....the goal is to simply not let ANY anger escalate past a certain point. If you can manage that much at least...you will have already come a long way in finding better ways to manage and express your anger in healthier ways.
The first thing to start working on is not being so defensive. Defensiveness is tied directly to anger and if you can focus on not beating yourself up and not being defensive...it will give you a head start on working on the anger at the same time. That's two birds with one stone. Actually three birds if you count self esteem and insecurity. Insecurity is really at the core of why you feel the way you do and that goes directly to other two things I mentioned. It will be hard not to feel insecure right now in light of your wife comments about divorce....but she isn't divorcing you yet if I understand you right. You still have a chance to show her that you can change by proving it to her first.
So the first thing to get rid of in your thinking that she is definitely going to leave you. You may not feel like this now but if you were to get your anger under control by showing her steady improvement and change...she may feel entirely different if you can do this. Almost certainly she will if you can show her that you mean to do this and then follow through.
Next....sit down with her and tell her exactly what you are attempting to do and how you are going to do it. Don't make promises you can't keep in fact....don't make promises at all. Tell her what you think is possible and something that you know you can do and then do it in small steps and try to be as consistent as you can right at first. Better to start with one thing that you know you can do and make sure you do it.
Sometime during this talk or possibly before right to start with....tell you are sincerely sorry that she has had to deal with this aspect about you but you are willing to listen to her and find out what is most important on her list of things that she would like. Not just one thing or two....all of it including your anger but don't say.."I'm sorry for being such a jerk." Tell her specifically what you are sorry for and all the things that you do that you know she struggles with. You can't be open and honest if you are being defensive and combative. Saying your sorry....listening( instead of talking)....and being fully accountable will go a long way in reducing the anger she has with you to start with but that doesn't mean she will stop being angry just because you said a few nice things with an apology. Actions speak louder than words.
And as far as the anger goes to start with....what you are trying to do again...is not to express or show your anger even if you feel that way. As soon as you start feeling angry about anything....try and practice stopping as often as you can. Stopping is really what your wife wants.....trying not to be angry is irrelevant if you are controlling it and expressing it later with better communication. The more you work on this part alone...the easier it will become as time goes on. If you can not let the train leave the station and keep your initial anger (the normal every day irritations) in check....you won't have to worry about the EL after that.
This at least will give you some goals to think about and start doing as soon as possible. Something that my therapist told my wife and I a while ago that we both really liked. It's another reminder you can use in those moments when you feel your anger starting to rise because your wife has done something to upset you in order to stop it right there.
He said "What would you do if you were in the other room and it was your baby screaming and crying instead of your wife..... and you feel yourself starting to get irritated and angry because it just won't stop screaming. Are you going to stab it with a pitch fork and throw it in the fire just so you won't have to hear it anymore?"
No matter what she does to make you angry....don't stab her with a pitch fork and throw her in the fire either:) It is the same damn thing if you stop and think about it.
J
PS Don't be controlling.....Don't make that choice for her and pick something that you decide. Give her as many choices in making her own decisions and then follow what she asks of you the best you can but make sure you impress on her that you need to start with one thing at a time before you move on to the next thing
I agree, and will add a clarification to my own comment
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Andrew,
Acknowledge and name things you want to change in yourself. Do not use them as a label of who you are.
Learning to separate your 'who' from your 'do' is important. Who you are is a child of God. A man. A husband.
What you do, well, now that there may cause some troubles for you. Identify and conquer. As J suggested, One thing at a time.
Sincerely,
Liz
Seriously - this is fantastic
Submitted by arosenbarger on
Seriously - this is fantastic. Thank you.
Since my wife has found this sight, I've been coming here, reading over people's entries and that helps keep me grounded. The feedback is invaluable.
Hi William
Submitted by c ur self on
You have had some good advice:) One other thing that can really help is getting on the right road in the beginning..."Self-awareness" ...In the US we place a larger degree of importance on independence than many countries...Instead of say Asia where Interdependence is stressed more...For example: A boss man in the US may tell his workers to look in the mirror and tell themselves I love you over and over...Where as In Asia that Boss may tell his workers to look at other workers and tell them I love you over and over... (The more healthy view for marriage and family)
I think it is always good to look at what the creator's call on our lives is as a Husband and as a Wife....He teaches us how our marriage and family becomes healthy in the first place...Ephesians' chapter 5 vs 22 to the end of the chapter, Corinthians chapter 7. Peter chapter 3 are just some of the more informative places for us to look....One thing about reading God's word is you get it from the Source....But one warning to is you can never force it. And, as husbands you and I must place our focus on what it is saying to husbands...Just as our wives should make sure their focus is on what it says to wives...
A spouse should be very humbled and thankful if their mate seeks to place Obedience to God as the priority for their living of life. But we should never us it wrongly and verbally beat each other with God's word... It takes a deep abiding love, desire and a pure heart that is open to him; to experience the beauty of a Godly marriage...
Blessings Friend...I hope this new year see's much healing for us all!
C
Emotional Lability
Submitted by kellyj on
Hi arosenbarger,
I think what you are describing is Emotional Lability, which is now being considered a core component of ADHD even if it is not currently in most of the literature you will read up on in the past previous to 2012. For me (being ADHD).....I came to this forum looking for the same answers you are in discovering the source of this very specific type of anger. This is a physiologic-biological phenomenon.....traditional anger management theory or techniques will not address this one for you. This is one you are just going to have to deal with..... and when I say deal with it.....you need to live with it and not expect this to go away or recede on it's own. It's not something you can just will yourself away from no matter how hard you try and talk yourself out of in the moment. It's actually a disproportionate response to something that is happening that would otherwise....not come out so large or as big as the situation would warrant otherwise.
That's why...it has nothing to do with the actual thing that caused you to react so ferociously. It is not emotionally connected to the stimulus....but an inability to control your anger in the moment not just manage it. That's why....when the moment is gone..you return to where you were or where you would have been otherwise but by that time....it's too late. Meaning....it really is not emotionally connected to reason or logic and makes no sense as you are describing it but it does get transferred to the person who instigated or triggered it.
The only way to stop it is nip it in bud before it goes too far. Once that switch flips.....there ain't no getting off that runaway train until it reaches the end of the line and runs out of inertia and rolls to a stop. Sound familiar?
The reason why traditional anger management won't work is because it is not caused from harboring anger and living in anger all the time. That will certainly bring it out but it has to hit a certain point before that threshold point is reached and the switch gets flipped. Again....once that switch or threshold point is reached....all you can do is ride it through until it subsides. This takes an incredible amount of self control to manage after that point and literally no matter what you do or what comes out of your mouth is going to be good during the period of time between when you go past your threshold point and when it drops down below that point again and you can regain your senses.
That threshold point however....does change from day to day or from moment to moment depending on things like stress, how much sleep you get (how tired you are) both physically and mentally, and being suddenly confronted with a situation you are not prepared for. Any time you are not at your best; tired, stressed, or have been in continuous confrontation and the stress you experience from prolonged stress will bring that switch point down from where you would normally be. You most likely do not have these episodes first thing in the morning when you are rested and aren't physically drained or overwhelmed am I correct? That's because your threshold point is much higher in the morning that later in the day or at night. Alcohol will greatly diminish your ability to deal with this and will come out under circumstances when you've drank more than just a drink or two. If you have noted in the past when this has happened to you.....usually your physical and mental state of mind is not at it's best.....or you already compromised for another reason completely unrelated to what is happening to you that very moment.
In other words....it's not caused from harboring anger and resentment that builds up over time from unresolved issues from your past but more from your physical and mental state caused from the immediate past (more that day or the past week even) from pent up anxiety and stress which is also why it's not related to the thing that you are actually angry at. It could be looked at like your bodies natural expulsion or venting of these raw emotions in the moment which is why that release allows you return to the way you were so quickly.
It is also not just anger that is involved. It's all emotions.....elation, exuberance, joy and excitement.....but normally....other people only see that as being easily excitable and easily expressive with your positive emotions as well. In reality....it is exactly the same thing.
That's also why anger management methods will not work for you or someone who has this component of their ADHD. It has nothing to do with what most people without it would arrive at as their conclusion to why it happens. They see what they did and how your reacted and immediately jump to the wrong conclusions which is only based on the fact....that they have no idea what this is like since they do not experience this the same way as you do. They can't know and never will....that's the problem you face and why there is nothing that you can do to convince them otherwise of that. You will never get anyone thinking that this is just Okay then....since you can't help the fact that this happens.
I also read somewhere (can't remember the exact source)....that folks with ADHD vs ADD are much more likely to have this issue compared to those who only have ADD by itself even though.......70-75% of people with AD(H)D have some combination (combined type) of these distinctions.
So....what do I do about it? Predict it.....recognize it...and instead of fighting against it (and the person that triggered it).. physically remove myself from the vicinity and sit with it until it passes and then return to where I was before it happened. Go take a walk around the block....get myself away from the stimulus itself and give it time to drop below that point when my rational thought process come back to their sense again.
Having said that.....we do have a cerebral cortex and can think on a higher level even in those moments. What your friend and Mrs B said here is a perfect thing to tell yourself in those moments when you feel it coming on before the switch gets flipped......
"what do you want more - to be married and keep your mouth shut or spout it off and be divorced?" Take my word for it....that is what will happen if you don't keep yourself from reacting on it towards the trigger..... instead of living with it for a short time and doing things to bring yourself down below your threshold point.
If I were you....I would memorize that line from your friend and pull that out in the moment when you feel it coming on and then excuse yourself for a few minutes and yes......shut the fuck up! Not a word. Just excuse yourself and go take a walk. It will go away just as fast as it came on. That part.....you already know from experience:)
Good luck with this....it takes practice but you can put a lid on this and keep this out of your relationship if you approach this from an emotional lability standpoint and not as a anger management one. The right approach I think from how you described it:)
J
This rings very, very true.
Submitted by arosenbarger on
This rings very, very true.
further help
Submitted by Zapp10 on
I sure wish arosenbarger was still posting. I would like to hear further from him. I find hearing from the ADD side informative and honestly,very helpful. Of course I know someone PERSONALLY who has it but THEY won't tell me their side of what happens and what they are sensing and what they need from me to do and oh could they have a shred of the same compassion towards me that they themselves want( and often get but don't SEE?) Crap.....there I go again! At least I see it and own it......and look! I didn't self destruct!
Yes, great thread
Submitted by Delphine on
I too wish the OP would return and update us on his progress. This thread is helpful to me since I have experienced the same issues when sharing apartment with grown son.
It also helps me to understand why he would tell me he's "not angry" in the aftermath of such confrontations--he vented/dumped and then he feels better.
He and his gf have split up and she's shared with me that she's experienced his irritability as well. I don't know if he acts that way in less intimate relationships. At some point I think I will need to bring this up with him. I think he needs counseling to learn to manage his emotional lability, but of course he first needs to face this in himself.
Guess I will wait until the time feels right.
Delphine