H said last night, leaning in conspiracy, to my granddaughters ages 6 and 10, "Look, Gramma has black boobies..hehehe".
That bothers me on so many levels! I had on a black bra under a white shirt. I didn't need to be pointed at and laughed at. How do I ignore or respond? If the tables were turned would I say to them (or to 2 grandsons being role reversal) "Look, Grampa has a black dickie (or package, or ding dong), hehehe"? Of course not. How do I let the girls know how to respond to a man or boy pointing out and laughing at (teasing) their private parts. I don't know how to respond but think I needed to say SOMETHING. I want to be a role model of women having a voice and respect.
I needed words to respond but I was speechless and silently resentful (there is that word again). How to respond to a spouse's inappropriate, impulsive behavior with kids/grandkids? He also likes to take the 10 year old daughter into the woods. Just the 2 of them without the 6 year old. The 10 year old is not afraid of him and asks to go to the woods with Grampa but it feels weird to me to see this every time accustomizing her to walk off with him like that. Sometimes a person doesn't know if they themselves are being prudish or need to take action....and what action? Since my words to H only serve to start a fight about my sanity, speaking to him is pointless.
Oh, dear
Submitted by Chevron on
I'd be speechless, too. That caught you between two needs, to care for the children in the moment, and to care for yourself.
Manchild
Submitted by jennalemone on
I Googled "manchild husband" and this list came up that underscores what I am realizing is necessary to live with someone like my H. Wish I had known and accepted these things earlier so I am passing them on to you.
1. Stop babying him.
When your husband starts acting immaturely, treat him like an adult, even if he’s acting like a baby. {Tweet This} If he goes on and on in a whiny voice about how hard his job is or how unfair the world is, show empathy, “Oh, that’s terrible.” Don’t jump in as if he were a small child and try to fix his problem. You also don’t want to talk him out of his troubles because it might turn into an argument about how you don’t understand him and what he’s going through.
Also, be aware that your husband might just have had a bad day and needs your support and an understanding ear. You might be the only one he can really open up to. And, if he’s a pouter, it might be because he doesn’t know how to open up emotionally and he shuts down.
If his immature tendencies cause him to treat you harshly, you don’t have to put up with it. For example, if he starts mocking you during an argument, say, “You know, I’d rather not talk to you when you’re acting that way,” and leave the room.
2. Practice reality living.
This one is tough. You want to let him suffer the consequences, as much as you can, for his immature choices. Let’s say your husband goes out drinking with his friends and doesn’t get up for your daughter’s soccer game the next morning. While you might want to cover for him and make excuses to your daughter, let him take responsibility for his choices and talk to her himself.
If your husband is immature in the way he handles your family’s finances, tell him that you think it’s wise for you to put aside money for your household expenses before he starts his discretionary spending.
3. Take the high road.
Don’t sink to his level of immaturity. When your husband starts yelling or blaming, you might want to dish it right back and tell him he needs to act like an adult instead of acting like a child. Don’t. Stay on the high road. Tell him that you’re choosing to handle disagreements in a mature way and that when he’s ready to do the same, you’re all ears.
Nice Jenna...
Submitted by c ur self on
Don't interfere w/ the due wages a person has coming for their actions....Because it produces growth!....It works for both genders also! :)
C
Jenne.........I Might Review More Closely
Submitted by kellyj on
This list you put up is a really good one. I think it speaks more to the problem than anything else. If your perception of your husband ( all this time ) that he is a fully functioning mature adult in how he see's things, then it's your perception that needs to change not so much his? You've brought this up before that had to do with his sense of humor or the "tee hee hee" humor that he employs? And I've mentioned to you about maybe having a broader sense of humor but the sense of humor is not the problem here I think? I have, and can have a very "child at heart"...playful sense of humor...but I grant myself enough maturity to know when it's appropriate ( most of the time at least ) to know when not to use it or when to use it? Mostly, if I go "down there"...I'm usually trying to make a point or use sattire and sarcasm to get my point across? I may "go there" to do that, but I doing it from a mature and developed point of view with an intention? Sometimes, I'm even trying to bring that back home to the person doing this very thing? Like "duh"....as means to do so without saying "duh" directly to the persons face. But even in respect to doing that well.....if a person doesn't get it...then there's no point in doing that? If my message isn't getting received as I am attempting to send it...then why do it in the first place? No reason I can think of? What good is making a joke or attempting humor...if no one in the room gets it or thinks it's funny? I think that's the point your making too which is the way it sounds to me as I hear you explain this better?
#2 is the best advise here I think and I can use that one to give you an example: " If your husband is immature in the way he handles your family’s finances, tell him that you think it’s wise for you to put aside money for your household expenses before he starts his discretionary spending."
Replace, finances, with "potty humor, body part" jokes that on the level of a third grader because that is what that is. I find this tedious, not tasteless. It has a taste alright, and it tastes like somehow who is very unimaginative and concrete like a 3rd grader. Like "lookie mommy, boobies. ha ha I made a funny. I said boobies. ha ha " Do I think that's rude, tasteless, or even funny? If I was a 3rd grader, and I was not allowed to say the word "boobs" then yes, I might think that was funny? Now, it is redundant and completely "dense" as anything but funny or very creative? I'd feel like saying...."really? Is that all you got or all you can come up with? That's not very funny" but in the same vein....there's nothing wrong with saying boobies and even talking about "boobies" or "boobs". Only when you're not suppose to talk about "boob" is when that becomes funny? And if someone is simply aghast, that you said "boobs" out loud...then they are on that same level of a 3rd grader too...because, "you're not suppose to. I'm telling mom!! MOM!!!....Johnny siad "boobies"!!! " See what I mean? That is not taking the high rode, and lowering down to a 3rd grade level of humor if you play the role of a 3rd grader and respond like one yourself?
Even in my history, going all the way back to 3rd grade myself ( 9 years old )....my friends and I would steal our dad Playboy magazines ( who ever had access to them ) and we would run off to our forts we made and look at naked pictures of women boobs in the centerfolds. And then there I was everyday of my life spent in a swimming pool with nothing but a thin piece of nylon the size of a bikini pulled skin tight against my skin which leaves nothing to the imagination what so ever? It made you go faster is why they did that with no loose material to slow you down due to the drag it created? And there were girls ( oh yes there were ) who were 16, 17, 18 years old right there every day who had wet suits made of the same material that you could see through when it was wet? And I mean, see every nuance of their parts....every single day of my life ( in detail if I wanted to scrutinize them ) Its not big secret, that these parts are there but when you wear semi-transparent next to nothing garments....you are exposing yourself no matter which way you slice it? But here's the kicker and heres where it all goes horribly wrong? There was no shame what so ever involved? Not with me, not with them, not with anyone involved. In fact, if you want to see really nice admirable bodies almost naked....hang around with swimming athelets ( in my case women ) if you want to see some nice body parts!! ( hoo boy yes ) Nicest body parts on the block and then some. Nothing to be ashamed of, they have to work their asses off to get those bodies let me tell you? You appreciate them for what they are and all the hard work it takes to look that good. Done deal there. No shame what so ever?
And there was also along with that for a time at least back in the day ( no longer, I think it won't work that way now )....that if you had gotten to a certain level of accomplishment....you used that shame against your opponent as a "psyche out move" and it worked exactly in it's very intention. To "taunt" or "flaunt"....."in yo face".....kind of unspoken "trash talK"....the the person who could go lower than you, basically had the upper hand? What that amounted to with the guys was....wearing the smallest suit you could possibly wear to the point that pubic hair and butt cracks were showing and you did it in front of a large crowd or audience. The best and fastest swimmers, had the smallest and tiniest suits. No joke. I stopped shy of pubic hair since that got kind of gross for me, but I only remember one guy who did that...and he won every time. He was the fastest, and he wore that like a badge of honor and I couldn't go that low since that is where I drew the line. However, mine was only slightly less small,....which even for a speedo....it was two sizes smaller than I should normally wear and it had this bright Hawaiian print on it, to make it stand out even more? I have an American flag one ( stars and stripes...oh yes ) and I had my favorite ( or lucky suit ) that I saved only for competition day? That was the smallest and tiniest one of the bunch, and even I felt a little more modest since it was really really exposing? The point of doing that? When your standing there next to your component, and they look down at your suit..and they;ve got everything covered up and trying to hide everything or wear two suits so not to exposed any details.....they look at you...they feel shame...and you feel nothing since you just put doubt into their mind? I mean "wow!! If this guy can wear that tiny suit and not feel shame or embarrassed, he must really be confident in himself....I may not be as fast as him?" It was a ploy...to fein or fake self confidence in a battel of who could cope and manage with more shame...and still functio n and operate? And the fastest swimmers all did the same since it worked to as a psyche out ploy..and it did give you more self confidence even if it was just a temporary kind to gain more when you really needed it? I needed it a lot, because underneath...I had butterflies and was sweating bullets...in fear of losing to the very guy standing there doubting himself. I wasn't different than the guy next to me....I just played that part and used that tool as a weapon against my opponent. Like I said, for a while...it got so ridiculous...that there were protests and parents coming forth and making complaints about needing to put a limit on that? It didn't work, and we did it anyway, since where to do you draw the line on something like that? Skin.....is the line, and wear you draw it. Straight up. If you can see skin....then your naked. If you can't see skin....then you are not naked. It's as simple as that? Pubic hair...in this case...was not skin, so that was pushing the envolope all the way to the breaking point...which basically told you as a competitor...."uh oh.....this guy is not joking around".
So in the context of that reality.....that was the reality? No big deal...no shame....if the audience didn't like it...then that was tought titties as they say? We were there for the audience....they could go ( ) for all we cared? We had a lot more important things to worry and about and this was a serious bussiness for us competitors? If the audience didn't understand then they could leave if they didn't want to see what they didn't want to see? We weren't performing for them...we were performing for ourselves? Too the point...if being buck naked would have made you faster....I think you might have seen that too...depending on how commited and serious the competitor was? It's all about winning in that reality...and anything to win, is what you do automatically no shame what so ever in winning in that world...by hook or crook or being completely naked? Modesty....you get over. Modesty is over rated anyway. It really causes more problems than it';s worth...if modesty is the goal? Modesty is not a "goal" anyway? Why would you be ashamed of your own body? The human body is beautiful? Why cover it up and hide it? It's not even the objectification that's a problem...it's the "sexualization" of it that's creepy? When guys are burning holes through your top and undressing you with their eyes like a hungy wolf who drooling for dinner.....that's the whats creepy? Objectification is only a problem...if that's a prolem for you? If it's not a problem for you, then its not a problem for you? But it's still not an open invitation to go handle the goods? That's off limits and that is creepy when you get the feeling that someone is being lecherous about it? If you H is being lecherous.....that's an entirely different thing. Undressing you with his eyes in that respect....is kind of being a creepy lecher? Can you imagine....me sitting in the room with one of the naked models when I was sketching them or creating a sculpture and I was burning hole in them like a peice of fried chicken I wanted to eat? That would have been very creepy...and not at all appropriate? Otherwise though, those models were stolling around completely naked and I was staring at their parts intently. Scrutinizing their boobies, in the most intimate of detail for hours.
And in respect to that scenario....was I getting sexually aroused by staring a beautiful womans lovely body completely naked? Of course not. Grow up!! I'm not in 3rd grade drooling over Playboy mags we stole from our fathers draw or hidden under the bed for crying out loud? LOL We got over that one, ( and with me in swimming ) like starting about 7 or 8 years old? When I first saw my first Playboy centerfold....in 3rd grade? That novelty wore off by the time I was out of grade school. When I turned my attention to the real deal...and started to get interested in the real thing!!! LOL About 7th grade as I recall....but only wishful thinking in my case back then. LOL But got over than stage too but not until later on.
So what is immature Jenne? Better question? Objectifying, Potty Humor or body part humor, or the creepy lecherous part? The creepy part if that's what it is, is not exactly immaturity but a little more a perversion in a mature form at best? Objetifiying in an erotic way looking at a picture....is a lot different than objectifying overtly...live and in person. To that other person ....by imposing on them? Porn stars, sex magazines, the whole nine yard....even the Art models that worked for moeny as a naked model....is all business. They volunteer and get paid and they are completely Okay with that? They expose themselves for a living and enjoy what they do I would imagine or they wouldn't do it? No shame for them...only for the veiwer if they think that is shameful but there is choice here to consder.....a lecherous guy doing that in public or with a woman who does not want that....is still being a creepy lecher.....there is no choice involved. So in that case Jenne...no matter what you feel about anything I've said.....again, I exposed myself on prurpose...for a reason as I said. I could care less what anyone thought...except for the guy who I was racing against? That is the only person I was doing that for....and I could care less about anyone else in that context only? As soon I was out of the pool.....I modified back to being appropriate in the normal context with everyone else? In fact, I kind of went the opposite and was pretty modest in the way I appeared. I did not like to flaunt or expose myself....I would rather not since I was not trying to draw attention or to taunt anyone at that point? I got nothing out of that kind of attention drawn to myself and that only made me feel self concious and that is all I got out of it?
So the bottom line here I guess as I see it and taking in everything I said? If a woman is showing you 1/2 or 3/4 of her boobies and you can see that bare skin? Those boobie are naked...and that is an invitiation to look. They are exposing those boobs for one reason only. You want to show them...and you want people to look at them? No two ways around that. That is a fee invitation, and if you don;t want people to look...then don't show the skin? Anyone who is showing their skin....is dong so for a reason. To taunt....to flaunt....to tease....or just likes people looking. One of those reasons and maybe others but the bottom line.....if it's skin....that's an ivitation to look and normally a person wants that....or they wouldn;'t show the skin in the first place? Looking only of course......creepy lecher behavior is creepy no matter which way you slice it? And if there is no skin and it's just a bra? I'd say that sound more like "potty" or "body part" humor on the level of a 3rd grader is was told that you're not suppose to look or talk about "undies"....so....I'm going to be a bad boy..and point to the very thing I'm not suppose to do? "Looky...I made a funny" On that level of entertainment...I'd say that's just immaturity and nothing else? About 3rd grade I'd say?
J
PS Sophomoric humor done with an intention can be really funny if that is the persons intention. More like....hitting you on the head with a sledge hammer and making it so ridiculous and obvious that everyone knows "this has to be a joke". It almost can't be anything else because it's so "childish" in it's view point? But the person saying it....is not "childish"....they are seeing it through the eyes of a child ( child at heart ) and making a parody of sorts? If it's done well that is? There are bad comedians who don't do it well and fall flat on their face when they I try? I still fall on my face occasionally, but there's no harm in shaming myself if I fail on occasion? I don't make a big deal about it and nomrally no one really cares that much I fI don't. Caring too much about it is what draws attention to it which is the opposite of what you should do. Sometimes not, but it depends on what is appropriate to the situation of course. That's how you know, in context to the situation your in.
Thanks J
Submitted by jennalemone on
I read the entire thing. I think that you named it about right, I was trying to name it and couldn't find the words but the words are immature "potty/body part humor".. As you said "...humor on the level of a 3rd grader is when you are told that you're not suppose to look or talk about "undies"....so....I'm going to be a bad boy..and point to the very thing I'm not suppose to do? "Looky...I made a funny". When there is a leadership expected and that elder leadership slips in some sexist potty/undies humor directed at those they partner with or lead....then the leadership is suspect.
It's like witnessing a man in leadership that you need to trust, says "pu**y hehehehe" and the whole country cringes and the whole country shares the shame and sick feeling but the leader seems oblivious and sees nothing wrong. You worry about the future.
I worry about my future with H, the manchild, and I don't want his "undies" talk to be the way our family operates. I am cringing and he is operating like an oblivious, obstinate 3rd grader.
I see it as...."Clueless Male"
Submitted by c ur self on
The mind is a funny thing...If my wife walked into the room and caught my attention w/ a black under white...Being an inquisitive Male several thought would probably jump into my head...The least of which would probably be "Will she view me asking about it as offensive??
But to make a joke about it with the Granddaughters, hopefully I would no better....But in the moment I might not....So If were you, (this coming from a male mind) I wouldn't take it as an attack or anything...Just mostly ignorance as it relates to your feelings....
C
C, thanks for responding, But....And...
Submitted by jennalemone on
I'm not taking this personally or as an attack on me. H is my husband after all. The word "boobies" between us is something different than when with the granddaughters. Are they expected in joining in on the funny teasing about my boobies from a 68 year old man? It is odd and strange and I don't want those girls to get comfortable with talking about boobies with Grammpa. It's creepy to me and they need to know how to respond if boys (or men) do it to them in the future. H supplied them with....its funny and you should laugh. But I don't think a man would laugh if his wife was pointing and teasing him WITH HIS GRANDCHILDREN about his "package". Wouldn't that be creepy and out of line? Again, if you think I am overreacting, please post. I am listening. Just trying to get (and give) perspective.
I was watching a movie from the 1960's where a man forced himself on a woman against her will. After it was over, the guy (Paul Newman) strutted out in the farmyard with the guys and the woman covered her face behind a curtain, ashamed of herself. This was acceptable to the audience and the times. People were not aware of "rape". Did I even know there was that word in the 60s? Probably not. It was considered that a woman was to blame if a man "went too far". The attitude and perspective starts at a very young age and insidiously, unless someone brings up the situation into the light and challenges the attitude. THIS is what I am saying. It is a sexes thing that we don't even see or know about but just have a gut feeling of "ick" but it has been acceptable. But very weird with little girls and an old man.
In my opinion, what your
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
In my opinion, what your husband did was rude, disrespectful, and especially inappropriate because the audience was two girls. Message to your granddaughters: if it's okay to make comments about grandma's body, it's okay to make comments about any woman's body.
How to respond to a spouse's
Submitted by Chevron on
How to respond to a spouse's inappropriate, impulsive behavior with kids/grandkids?
I'd describe to him kinds of behavior that are inappropropriate to do to 10 year old girls, let alone 6 year old girls. Sexualizing the conversation through description of the body parts and interior clothing of their grandmother is one of them.
As for him and me, I'd tell him not ever to talk about my underwear to other people again. . Its one thing for my husband to talk to me about my body and clothing, when we're in private. It's quite another thing to talk about my body or clothing not to me, but to other people, as if I were just there to be gawked at.
Jenna, I'm sorry you were dealt with that way.
.
Thanks Chevron and PoisonIvy.
Submitted by jennalemone on
Thanks Chevron and PoisonIvy. I needed to hear that. Don't know why. I was never abused that I can remember. But your words and support were needed by me on this seemingly trivial event and I am grateful. I was marginalized in front of my grandchildren.
Yes it would be creepy and out of line...I agree....
Submitted by c ur self on
Like I said...In the moment we can get to comfortable with things that if we gave it a little more thought we would not voice hopefully....(adult themes should be kept between adults...You are so right....
C
Thanks, C.
Submitted by jennalemone on
Thanks for respondingt. I DID tell my granddaughters later, that what Grampa said was weird and that if a boy or man teased them about their bodies, they should just say, "You're weird" and walk away and forget it. H does not know I feel this way. If I even brought it up to him that he was amiss, he would look at me with hatred and insist that I was crazy and wrong OR that he never said it. Thanks. C, as a guy to listen to this without recrimination, is helpful.
Yep...
Submitted by c ur self on
I know how that is...It's very difficult to live in a situation with the reality your talking about...It makes after the fact conversations completely non-exist due to defensiveness and limited recall... I say non- existent, because of what you just said would happen if you broached the subject...You did the right thing....
C
It's just the depravity of the Carnal.....In my opinion.
Submitted by c ur self on
(I was watching a movie from the 1960's where a man forced himself on a woman against her will. After it was over, the guy (Paul Newman) strutted out in the farmyard with the guys and the woman covered her face behind a curtain, ashamed of herself. This was acceptable to the audience and the times. People were not aware of "rape". Did I even know there was that word in the 60s? Probably not. It was considered that a woman was to blame if a man "went too far". The attitude and perspective starts at a very young age and insidiously, unless someone brings up the situation into the light and challenges the attitude. THIS is what I am saying. It is a sexes thing that we don't even see or know about but just have a gut feeling of "ick" but it has been acceptable. But very weird with little girls and an old man.)
I Personally think it's always been frowned upon to disrespect or force yourself on a women or your wife (with people w/ a conscious and convictions based on the Gospel)...I think the problem is and has always been the world...People in the world making their own selfish (self gratifying) rules for what is acceptable....If the gospel is rightly divided and every Male and Female accepted those truths to pattern their lives by....We wouldn't be having this conversation....Not nearly as often....
C
my DH is often inappropriate too
Submitted by dvance on
Oh Jenna, I am so sorry you were embarrassed in this way. I agree with you and everyone else that it is completely inappropriate. My DH has done things like this too and maybe it's happened enough at this point that I am immune. Once DH, me, our two sons and my oldest son's girlfriend at the time were driving downtown (Chicago) and we drove through an area with a lot of gay-friendly sex shops--often called Boys Town. We were at a stop light and no one was paying attention to the stores--we have seen them many times, we have plenty of gay friends, my boys are old enough to not be particularly bothered but DH has to call attention to the store displaying stuff like chaps and other pretty racy stuff. With the girlfriend in the car. Something like "hey, anyone need any crotchless panties?!?!" Um...what? Why would you talk like that in front of a 17 year old girl? Who is back there with her boyfriend? So embarrassing. Many many times when we are all out (the 4 of us I mean), DH will start to walk in a weird way or shove one of the boys to get them riled and pretty soon we are a circus walking down the street. It has gotten to the point where when we are going anywhere with all 4 of us I say before we leave "we are going to act normally, not like a circus. we do not need to be looked at out in public." I mean come one--we are all normal people, the boys are way too old to act up in public. Just walk from A to B normally. If I say anything, DH will blow it off and say he is just having fun. I say kids who are 16 and 18 do not need to be played with or entertained any longer. When I go out with just me and the boys--totally different. We often bum around in the city and it's all fine and relaxed and normal. I think it is part of the ADHD boredom thing--normal is pretty darn dull and they need to stir the pot, whether that be starting a fight, fooling around, doing something outrageous, whatever it is to a) get attention and b) make something "interesting" happen. It's exhausting and often embarrassing. I pretty much avoid going out with DH whenever possible. We had to be out together this past weekend for oldest son's graduation from high school but we took separate cars. We went out to brunch afterwards and actually it was the 18 year old (also ADHD) who embarrassed me in front of our friends, so THAT was fun, but DH did nothing to curtail the 18 year old's poor behavior toward me either. After 22 years of this, I really think my DH revels in starting trouble, being opposite. I cannot tell you how many times we make a plan for whatever it is and then at the very last minute DH has to rework the entire plan. Again, why? My DH takes great pride in doing things in odd, inefficient ways. But I digress. My point is--I too have been embarrassed by my DH and it blows. I am very sorry you were humiliated.
Melissa, How do you respond?
Submitted by jennalemone on
dvance, Yes, this happens here too. It is like this kind of stuff keeps coming out of him while with children and out in public. Melissa, help us out here. When the actions or words come out that are impulsive and inappropriate, what is a GOOD response? In the spirit of the book, "The ADHD Effect on Marriage", us nons are directed to change our responses. My usual response is to be speechless and resentful. Over the 40 years, this has not been a good response FOR ME.
Here are some alternate responses to dvance's and my H's words:
I guess grin and bear it is the only response. He is who he is. I can't change him. We are a couple where the husband is a gross goofball and the wife endures him. Again, I do the work of changing my expectations of the partnership and he feels like a free and easy independent cool guy (in his mind).
You left out #8
Submitted by c ur self on
Don't be there...:) Just kidding, (kinda).... I vote for No Response...He's doing it to get a Response (Just like a child)...Silence is the best way to repectfully scream REALLY!
C
C....I Do Have to Concede That Silence Does Work
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm also in part, answering or responding to Dvances comments and Jennes question for Melissa. Before Melissa puts in any input here, I think I can better answer this by going to the source again and yes, Dvance is in part correct in suspecting ADHD and impulse...but here's the problem with drawing conclusions in thought processes or motivations to do anything like this. What I'm saying ( and I can see this in myself pretty clearly now )...there is no motivation behind impulse or lack of impulse control...and even though my wife as I witness her...does not make "inappropriate jokes" or humor to get a rise out of you as just one motivation. I think at the core, there's still no motivation involved. I can make one statement that I think describes this well:
What there is instead of any thought process or any other means to motivate or cause a person with ADHD to do anything is:.. "getting triggered unconsciously to act on or act upon something that you are just driven to do even if it's not appropriate." You almost have to, and I mean you must apply this first, before anything else. It is at the core of impulse control, which is at the core any impulsive behaviors at the source. This gets really tricky indeed and what I was also mentioning to Jenne. This is the ambivalence of it all in exactly what Jeanne was describing as well. Having a leader, act like a child...so you are torn between believing him, disrespecting him, or following him and there are so many confusing emotions and feelings about this you cannot really know how to see them? How do YOU see them, is more important here regardless of who or what they are? I might even go as far as saying, "they" ( not me, but I will come back here ) do not know who they are, because ( they ) in this case, are thinking they are something else instead? This is not exactly directly related to ADHD either but I suspect it is the biggest component of this issue and why? The why is an identity problem ( that agency again )...and not being sure or who they are since they refuse to own who they are? This is specifically related to denial since denial is the thing that will allow you to "disown" your own behaviors? Ha! Not even trying here....look at the paradox in that sentence...."Dis-owning....your own.....behavior?" That is like adding 1 + -1 = 0. LOL Disowned!! Yet, it happened in reality??? LOL
I didn't do that. Oh yes you did. On no I didn't. Oh yes, yes did!! Oh no, no I didn't!!! OH YES YOU DID!!! ( trigger )
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!! I DID NOT DO THAT!!! YOU YOU YOU!!! YOU'RE ALWAYS DO THAT!! EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS ABOUT YOU!! YOU YOU YOU YOU!!!! YOU ALWAYS.....YOU ALWAYS...IT'S YOU IN EVERYTHING AND IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT YOU AND WHAT YOU WANT .ALWAYS ABOUT.....YOU .....YOU YOU YOU!!!! WHY WON'T YOU SHUT UP!! WHY DO YOU ALWAYS DO THAT!!! WHY DON'T YOU WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING!! WHY WON'T YOU LEAVE ME ALONE! YOU SHOULD BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW YOU DID THIS...AND YOU DID THAT....YOU YOU YOU.....I WANT YOU TO STOP DOING THAT!! I WANT YOU TO LEAVE ME ALONE!! I WANT, I WANT, I WANT!!! YOU, YOU , YOU!!! YOU ALWAYS DO THAT!! ALWAYS!!! EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS ABOUT YOU AND I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG!! I'VE DONE NOTHING!!! I'M JUST FINE!!!! ( how are you? ) I'M FINE GOD DAMN IT!!! NOTHING WRONG HERE!!!! ( lol )
( oh yes you did ) lol
The parts in parenthesis was me being silent including the laughing which I can easily do for myself since as I just re-acted an emotional lability "episode" that I've witnessed countess times now with my wife....that little dramatization and the word expressed are either exactly the words I've heard or just more pointed version of the same thing without going through the entire process of one of these episodes she has? And what causes it to becomes triggered which is me in this case? I triggered that, by pointing out something my wife did, that she does not own and refuses to own....which means a real part of her is missing? If she has disowned something she has and will not admit to it or see it and is in denial of it....then that part comes out into full view.....in the denial of it itself? These "denial" episodes as I am calling them, are these impulsive and rather explosive urges to rid herself of anything that she does not want to see or will admit too? Yet ...I will be sitting there looking at her and watch he do it? It's like watching someone, go over and take candy out of a candy jar , stick it their mouth and swallow it...and then say...."I didn't do that"...while you you watched them do it? LOL NO I DIDN'T!!! I DIDN'T DO THAT!!! YOU YOU YOU YOU!!!!......................and away we go?? She doesn't know who she is, because she doesn't want to know? She would rather believe what she is and who she is.....and stay believing a lie? The lie...is she won't look because it's too painful. So intead of finding out, she makes up a story of who she is in order to put herself into a palatable framework she can live with? She is so far from perfect...that she is trying too hard to be perfect? Pefect...is a relative term of course..;but in her mind Perfect....is never doing anything wrong, and never making a mistake. Mistakes or doing anything wrong....are catastrophic for her. To have one thing out of place and or show anything that is less than ideal.....then is wrong and she would be wrong...and that is what she cannot be or tolerate. To be wrong....is to be wrong, as a person. I am a wrong person. How rediculous is that I might ask? There is no such thing as a "wrong person"? LOL "I'm just wrong, wrong is my name....I am from wrongsville and I'm a wrongian...I am wrong!!! LOL How about that for a disorder? Wrong disorder??? LOL But that's really what it looks like if "wrong" is the worst thing that can possibly be or can imagined? And if someone see it......OMG!!! Life would just end, which is rediculous since......what everyone see's are the episodes. The one and only thing wrong that my wife EVER does or says.....is denying that she did anything wrong and having one of these denial episodes that once they start...there is just no stopping them. That is a function of emotional lability and the shame that comes out ...if she were to admit she was wrong? Or did something wrong? It's always ( and it is always with her ) a matter of right or wrong.
So in what you are saying C.....this is where you say "silence" which your right, it works. If I just let these episodes pass....then they pass and it's over but it doesn't nothing in respect to fixing the problem for me? For me, I can see it for what it is, but in respect to me.....these out of control episodes...were triggering me now and I was ramping right up with her with no ability to stop her? I was getting pulled into the wake of her inability, which was the trigger for my inability to start. I had to recognize my trigger in order to do something about it and the only thing I could come up with in order to manage myself was to walk away from it and leave her alone? Which only further fed into her own fears and suspicions about her self...that she is wrong in some way....but can't see or understand what that is? And further, her hopelessness of ever being able to do anything about it...which always ends with...."well, I'm leaving". She would rather leave everything and run away....than to look at herself and figure out what the real problem is? And the problem really is simply, owning what she already has, and simply denying that your just took candy out of the candy jar and stuck it in your mouth right in front of you...doesn';t mean you didn't do it...but that's what denial does for you.....it makes you beleive you didn't do it by allowing you not to see it? But only up to a point? Part of you does know, but that part of you also doesn't want to know...and that is the abivlence. It's all in avoidance or having any painful or uncomfortable changing of how you see yourself and your identity? To have to see yourself as you are, this may threaten the false identity that you've created for yourself? The big lie as I call it. Denial, allows the big lie, to be true. And what comes out, it the very lie you can't see or admit but everyone sees that too which only makes it worse. And then if you point that out to them.....they flip their lid and have another episode. This is not from having a grandiose over inflated self image in terms of a Narcissist in that diganosis....it's the opposite of it, and having a really poor underfinanced self image and identity and being a victim to that ( or anyone imposing any authority on you ) not being able to tolerate anyone pointing that out? From being in the extreme "low" victim position....in stead of being in the extreme "High...I'm God Almighty" position. To the point of dysfunction it's is so bad but the mechanism of the position your coming from is at opposite poles in comparison. The effect this has on you or anyone else however, does have a similar ring or feel as it comes through to you on the receiving end? No identity or ego.....it as bad as too much Ego and self identity in a grandiose arrogant and Narcissist way? Neither of these examples make good leader to follow since you're looking at them and going "Holy cow!! That looks just crazy!! They make me crazy just being around them....I'm not following that!!! " it appears in some ways the same as having and overinflated, grandiose one believing you are ALL powerful and the Lord and boss of everything in sight? My wife is on this end of the scale since she herself...not just her behaviors which is simply impossible. A person like DT ( the president ) only disowns his behaviors since he likes himself just fine and thinks he's all that you can be and then some. My wife thinks so poorly of herself and then some, she has disowned herself, in her own disbelief, that she is far less and far worse, than she really is? She thinks she is a horrible person at times and needs constant validation and reassurance that she not? She has to use me to do this for her since she can't do it for herself as long as she keep denying who she really is? In this case, much better than she thinks? And no amount of reassurance or telling her how good she is, is going to make her own herself and own the parts of her behavior that she doesn't like. And the vicious cycle continues since she will not look to see for herself. You cannot dis-own, your own behavior or yourself at the end of the day. You are alive, you do things you own that and everyone else can see it too. No matter what, you did something today and yesterday and you own that behavior...there's simply no denying it but yet, the denial defense mechanisim....allows you to do the imossible? It is impossible...but yet it's true. That is the first thing you have to realize that the impossible is true and know why and how that is which I think I just went over?
To say you didn't just do what you just did is simply crazy and crazy making for anyone else on the receiving end of this? Until you realize and accept the impossible is actually true, then it's not so crazy after all and there is a reason for it. A real reason that is based on fact and based in reality and is not crazy at all once you understand it. This is why......silence will only serve, to protect yourself from these episodes but it will do nothing to make the episodes stop or not happen in the future because.....that is impossible too. You simply cannot do anything about managing soemones elses disfunction and punishing them like a child only makes it worse since that is what is really inappropriate in apply it to an adult. It is not immaturity in all aspect of them, it is an "immature" processing or ability to process things and what comes out looks immature at times.....but only that part which is just the ADHD part? As my wife cannot see, that I can? I can seperate her, from her ADHD the same way I can do this for myself? I see the ADHD...and I see her and they are two separate things. The immature way of seeing things or impulisve behaviors are not immaturity. The look immature or sounds immature...but they are not immaturity? What is simply childish behavior in a child, is due to not being mature and having the capacity to behave on the level. For someone with ADHD, is from a dysfunction in impulse control...that comes out looking and sounding like a very simliar looking kind of thing but now in an Adult? But they are an adult....just some of the behaviors are not? The one slice of the pie, not the whole thing? The rest of the pie excluding that one slice.....is a fully mature and adult person just like everyone else? That is what you have to see, to resolve that ambivalence for yourself? If you are seeing that slice....as them the person.....then you are not seeing the problem for what it is and you are feeding into yourself? You are feeding into the same problem and dysfunction by contributing to it? If that person see's themselves as the slice of the pie or the whole pie...and you see them as the slice of the pie being the whole pie.....then everyone is wrong and no body is right in that case? No one wins and no one is right, when everyone is wrong? ADHD is just a slice of the whole pie...it is not the entire thing. That is what you have to wrap your head around first, before you can do anything about it or be accurate in what you are seeing? You have to see them that way....or you will not see them either? And if you can't see them....and they can't see themselves.....then nothing happens and it will remain just the same?
So something has to happen here. to get that person to see what they aren't or don't want to see? Silence...will not do this so something has to be said? But if you say "Oh yes, you just did that"....wammo...you just triggered them and the episode begins!! Once that illogic train leaves the station.....logic will not return until the train has stopped moving and with my wife, those episodes will just keep going if I do anything to feed into them? And the only way I could do that, was not get triggered myself. I had to do what my wife could not do...and I had to do that for myself, by myself in the face of my worst trigger. My worst trigger is someone going emotional and losing control which what triggers my ability to be unable to do this which means I was going along for the emotionaly roller coaster ride right with someone doing this and I couldn't make them stop or make myself stop once that happened. Silence for me, became a death sentence since I can only be party to...or subjected to that for so long before I will lose it too? I have the same challenge that my wife has....but I have learned how to control it and make it stop on my own. I have full control of this now, to the point I have reached homeostasis.
Homiostatus is what I recently realized what I've been working so hard to do without know it exactly? As defined: the tendency toward a relatively stable equilibrium between interdependent elements, especially as maintained by physiological processes. Bingo!! The tendency or trend towards doing that more often than not. I'm not perfect of course and no one is, but that is my tendency now...which is exactly what this definition says. I have found the way to do this on my own for myself, despite the challenges of having ADHD and basically in spite of it? That is a doing thing or an intentional action I have to take.....it does not or did not come naturally....I had to do it and keep doing it and learn how to do it first. But I've done it and I know how now, so now.....I am no longer hyjacked by my wife and I'm in control of myself ...despite her having an episode....I do not follow her? She is no longer leading me right off a cliff with her...even if and even when she starts going there....I have found a way to control this now? I do have to speak up and I do have to something.....but what I have discovered that actually is working and does work which like asking me to run a 4 minture mile it really is asking that much of me, is I become calmer, I lower my voiece, and I become the opposite of her? My behvavior in spite of what happing inside me, I have arrested to the point of the now going the opposite in direction and what I've been doing the second I see even the lightest sign of her starting to lose her emotinal mind and jump on the illogic train....I say very calmly and quietly in almost a whisper..."bring it down, bring it down" while motioning with my hands same way. By taking my hands and arms and pushing the air down to the ground as if I was actually pushing the lid on something and trying to push downward to keep it shut. That is all I say "Bring it down, Bring it down"" I just keep repeating it over and over and I am so soft spoken and so unemotional, that she cannot accuse me of doing anything more, that exactly what I'm doing? And that is all I'm doing so she can accuse away! What I noticed...when I was finally able to do this and maintain that without fail....she will ramp up on her own, the non-sense and accusations are still coming out and I'm not going there with her? It is absolutely astounding to witness this happen...when you are as calm and unflinching in the face of this hysteria....and then she's accusing me of being hysterical....and when clearly I'm not? And when I simply say...."well, I'm not doing that" She has this blank look on her face.....and she stops doing what she's doing? I just grounded her and she has no where to go? The only thing these episodes need to keep them alive and going, is something from me ( like in almost everything ) and if I'm not giving it....it dies and runs out of steam all on it's own?
So look at how crazy this is, but really it;s not crazy at all? I have ADHD and everything that goes with it, and by me, doing what I had to do, to control myself.....the effect that has on my wife who cannot do this for herself at all....actually made her stop and run out of steam.....despite ( or in spite of ) or complete inability to do this for herself? She can't do it.....but I did it for her. I did it for myself first...which allowed me to do it for her?
In the very essence of this and everything I'm saying? I did that. I own it. I controlled myself and I controlled the situation? I can't control her, but I yet.....the effect of what I wanted I got for myself? She didn't do anything different....but I took from her what she needed....by not giving her that energy ....which is what she was trying to get from me...and I simply won't give it to her? She wants me to go with her...and I simply will not follow and by means of follow...I mean my emotions and feelings and my ability to maintian and keep my own homiostatus for myself. That is mine...and not hers to take? She may want it....but she'll have to do that for herself. I own my homiostatus and I earned it. I deserve that much since I earned it and it's mine. No one can take that one from me, no matter what? As my T have drvien deep into my head....."don't make anything you do, contingent on anyone else" I can tell you the same, and no that it';s good advise. No one can abuse me or do anything to me since I am immune to that and my own equilibrium is unchanged once I learned how to wield it and control it for myself. I'm not indifferent to my wife.....my homiostatus is indifferent that the point. And when that happened and amazing thins took place....I can control the situation and her.....by not feeding the kitty...and in this case that kitty needs attention and I'm not feeling into it. My attention is mine....she can get her own in this case especially and specifically only in the times when her slice of the pie takes over. I will treat the rest of her the way I always have, but that slice is getting nothing from me ....she hasn't earned it...and it's not mine to give to her since I can't give her what is not mine to give. I own what is mine...and she's going to have to do the same for herself....no two ways around it though....I deserve to keep what I own. She will get that ( one day maybe ) if she realizes she already owns it....but she just been denying it for so long she thinks she doesn't, and she thinks she is a different person with a different identity than what she truely is? I can see it...and I can see the slice of the pie too. She owns both...but denies the slice and tries to pawn that slice off on me. Nice try Buck Wheat....I'm not buying it, nor taking it....even at hysterical emotional gun point....I'm no longer in the market, since I own it already thank you very much. LOL
So I might say that silence is only good, once the train has left the station...but keeping it from leaving the station I certainly have learned to influence or persuade her by leanring to do it myself? Just by example and saying "bring it down" and then not making a big deal about it and just going on forward as if nothing happened. I really see her just squirming and wrestling with this, since that is not what she expects and she doesn't know what to do with it? Really, she is just lost and without words and has no idea what to do when I do that which is fascinating to watch and just witness everything that comes out of her...when I don't add one thing into it. That is ALL HER....and none of it is me. No matter what she says within her hysterical ranting and illogic.....that is ALL on her...and none on me. I don't own it....she does...and then she has to live with it which she most decidedly doesn't like....but that just kind of tough. She owns it whether she likes it or not? I don;t have a problem with that what so ever. It doesn't bother me one tiny bit. And I don't feel one bit sorry for her, knowing what I know. Sorry is not what I feel. Compassion is the only thing left?
All I know is, that was a monumental accomplishment on my part having ADHD to do. I'll take that one to the bank and own that one since I deserve it. I earned it.
J
I though about that J after I posted it....
Submitted by c ur self on
There are other reasons people spout out things like that....And a lack of filter or impulse control is probably a higher percentage than attention seeking for many minds....
C
I am very eager to see what
Submitted by dvance on
I am very eager to see what Melissa has to say about this. My solution is to not be anywhere out in public with my DH. Not great for family life but I just can't take it any more. If we have to go somewhere I will turn myself inside out to not have to drive with him either. Along the lines of bizarre behavior--the music my 18 year old listens to is not my taste. And really I think it's a little odd and creepy when middle aged people listen to the teeny bopper or rap stuff that their tween or teen kids listen to. I mean really, grow up. By the same token I do not expect my 18 year old to like my music-that's fine. But if there is no way to avoid being in the car with DH, he puts on the 18 year old's music and often "raps" along or puts his seat way back like some "gansta" and it really is ridiculous and embarrassing. He is 48 years old for gods sake. Not so much with the flashing pretend gang signs while blasting music about bitches and hoes. With your wife and kids in the car. I really don't understand his goals in acting these ridiculous ways. So totally age inappropriate.
In all my years of posting and reading here, it has taken me a looooong time to figure a few things out. The biggest thing is that ADHD is impossible to live with UNLESS the ADHD person is both medicated and in therapy or has an ADHD coach. The combination of self centered-ness, impulsivity, lack of self-awareness and poor judgement is just not helpful in a marriage unless the non-ADHD person is willing to do ALL the changing, both actual, physical changing and mental changing and act like the mom in many many cases. Until 5 years ago, I was the mom. I made all the decisions, managed everything and for a variety of reasons that came to s screeching halt and now 5 years later, I am exhausted and bitter and resentful that a man child (love that) has wasted the best years of my life and that we have nothing to show for 22 years of marriage. The train wreck of financial issues, lies, other women, misunderstandings and problematic employment is just too much. I am counting the days until I can get out, but there is so much debt it is crushing me. Not him--he does not pay attention to that stuff. Like so many others who post here, as far as I can tell, the only thing that motivates my DH is self preservation--whatever is easiest in the moment, whatever makes him look good--that is the answer. I can't do it any more. Even though we are under the same roof, we are living as roommates. I honestly could not care less what he thinks any more. Even if I did, what he thinks is likely to change, so there is little point in paying that much attention. It is a truly frustrating way to live. Most of the advice Melissa has posted is some version of "the non-ADHD person has to change their way of thinking". I disagree with that very very strongly, but I am still curious what she has to say.
Dvance.....You Did a Good Job of Summing This Up
Submitted by kellyj on
Most of the advice Melissa has posted is some version of "the non-ADHD person has to change their way of thinking". I disagree with that very very strongly, but I am still curious what she has to say. Basically, what I just described in those "episodes" that I witness with my wife and how I changed how I see her.....that slice of the pie being ADHD...and then the rest of it, is her the person, is pretty much confirming what Melissa said too. And if I didn't make it clear, then that is what I actually did? But also, as I went through that....that was not my inititial intention or goal? I was just doing what I had to do for myself since I had already resigned myself to the fact that there was only one of two options. Fight...or not fight. Get into a stupid argument again and spend an hour of my day fighting with her on "how she did what she just did. how it made me feel and trying to get her to see my point of view or put her into my shoes in order to see what she was doing to me, and doing to herself at the same time? In public like you mentioned with your H, my wife will do similar things unconsciencously, and not realized it then too. She does this at times with other people and they have to see it too, but they don't live with her? And she is lot less inhibited with me about throwing accusations around and pointing fingers at other people. She mostly reserves that for me, but as she has said this now so many different ways that she does not hold them responsible for the way she feels? I'm the one who is responsble for the way she feels so I'm the one who gets blamed. That is the part, that she cannot separate in her mind? If I do something, that creates anxiety or fear or what every emotion of feeling she has....then I was the one who is responsible for the way she feels? Which is crazy. I mean, what kind of power to I have over other humans beings? I don't have that power? I don't make people feel. People, you, I and everyone on the planet has feelings and sensations that create emotional response to things? I'm not God in other words? I didn't make her feel what she feels....that just a physical response to a stimulus or trigger. What is true, is I might do something to trigger that automatically reaction in her that she feels...and then imediately ( without thinking or processing this through ) automatically says "you"...and point the finger at the source of the trigger only? I mean look at what Jenna said her husband did when he saw her black bra? The sight of the black bra....triggered and reaction or an emotional response in him....which he was compelled to point a finger at the black bra that was the trigger. In both cases with my wife or Jennes husband, they are not aware of what they are doing or why? The impulse comes to speak or say something...and it just comes out of their mouth no matter what it is? Or even appropriate? It just blurts out, with no control of it? And the comments are directed at the source or Trigger....but only because they cannot see the trigger is only the catalyst.....that's all it is? But specifically with my wife....this is what I am no longer do nothing since she well walk in the door from work and in the first 5 minutes starts venting which is exactly what she is doing. I am so use to her doing this now ( the kicking the god behavior ) that it's really pretty consistent when she does it, because she always says the same things in the same way repeatedly over time. Pointing it out to her and me telling her way I see is what triggers her into it during one of these venting attacks she has? She is literally, spilling all her unwanted emotions or feelings and just barfing them onto me and everything around her and she cannot see what she is doing, nor how it is effecting me? This where that technique I learned is really coming in useful. And in part, I got this from NowOr Never....in confronting her husband in the same way? I am ready and I'm listening and I'm being very concise and clear...but with a certain amount of force behind it and I not backing away from it. I am holding my ground and remaining stable but the second the lens gets pointed at her...she loses it and goes emotional on me. Or starts...and I have to bringing it down again. And I tell her "look. Look at what I'm doing. Bring it down, I am not getting upset or angry and I'm not even reacting to you??? Bring it down, bring it down, bring it back to where we were just a minute ago? A minute ago, we were both just talking and being calm? And apparently, I said something or a word and then you started to get all upset and going emotionally out of control. I'm not doing that and I have done anything....but you're sitting there accusing me of the same behaviors that you're doing right now? I'm not doing any of that am I? Look at me, I'm only trying to bring it back down to where we were? Nothing has been said to warrant getting upset since you've also pointed out me doing something in the past and I was doing something. But now I'm not, and I haven't for a long time? I'm not reacting but you are to something?" That is key here in how this is really working? I said "something"....that "you're reacting to"....and that's the only accusation I've made but it not an accusation since it's happening live in the moment? It is absolutely an observation that I see and witness...and now with all her illogical accusations and once I get her back down. and keep her from going "off"...she can see that I'm not doing it.....and she can see that I am right? That's different than pointing a finger at her and saying what she is doing is wrong ( the woirst thing I can do )....but I'm making her look...and what I am not doing or accusing me of....and just allowing her to see it? If I only do what I did..and I only say what I am not doing....l.then all that';s left is her and what's she's doing, and if light of me becoming increase softer and quieter...and she goes increasing more hostile and verbal and over emotional....I'm contrasting her behavior so markedly....there is no way she cannot see that when I simply point that out? I'm not saying "you" to her......I saying either what I am doing...or what I am not doing...and leaving it right at that? But in an insistent and rather forceful way without hostility...but I am not allowing her to prevent me from saying it with is what she is really good at doing? If she cannot interpret her own behavior for herself....if I am interpreting my behavior to her..and pointing out what I am doing or not doing....if she has accused me or assumed wrong or what ever....all I have to say is what I did...and what I didn't';t do....and she can see what she said....is neither one of those things? If she can see me doing anything...and then I verbally point to those things and tell her "this is what I'm doing"....or...."this is what I'm not doing"...then what ever she says, which are not those two things....is not correct is it? Especially when there is no way she can say I'm wrong? I identified specifically what I'm doing, and describing it accurately which makes perfect sense. Even to her which is the poin? When there is just no denying that my words match my actions....there is simply no way she can deny what I'm doing when it's right in front of her can she? In respect to my wife....she will dismiss me at times and stop listening, but if I have her attention and she is seeing me......her denial is of her own behavior...not mine? If I never say "you" and only talk about myself or include her as "we"....this is palatable for her as long as I don;t point to her behavior, or try and get her, tell her ..or make her look at herself? No "you" involved. "you" stay out of it completely? That's what she does. You you you you!! Every thing is "you" and nothing is ever "me" All I'm doing is, is differentiating and identifying my own behavior by simply saying...."I didn't do that? But I did do this" And just leave it right there, for her to decide? All that's left is her...and I see it...and she can see it too....but I don't say it...but it works just the same as If I did. She just left with her...and I have what is me...and she has to do the math since I refuse to do the math for her anymore?
What my wife is doing us "thought policing" which is said:( taken from a description off the internet )
We believe this is true both for Personality Disorder sufferers and for those who are in relationship with them. So a person with a Personality Disorder has no business trying to read the mind of a family member or partner, and a person who does not have a Personality Disorder has no business trying to read and control the mind of a person with a Personality Disorder. If a person has a thought or feeling - let them have it!
If a person chooses to believe something you know isn’t true - that’s their business - not yours. Let them believe what they want to believe and feel what they want to feel. That’s their stuff! Your own feelings and your own thoughts are your own stuff and your own property and that’s where your focus belongs and is most fruitfully spent.
If you find yourself becoming upset with someone over the way they feel or over the way they think you may even be guilty of thought policing yourself! It is always more productive (and appropriate) to focus on behaviors you find unacceptable rather than thoughts.
If a person is policing your thoughts, do what you can to maintain your integrity of thought and feeling and beliefs. . You can’t easily change what you think, feel and believe and you don’t owe anybody an explanation for how you think, feel or believe. We are accountable for our behaviors - not our thoughts.
If a person is railing at you over how you think, feel or believe the best policy is to say to them - “that’s just how I think” or “that’s just how I feel” and agree to disagree. It usually does no good to try to convince another person that your feelings or beliefs are any more valid than theirs or that your thoughts are any more accurate than others. It’s best just to try to “agree to disagree” and if the other party can’t accept that then walk away from the negotiation and end the conversation.
So not to go too far down the personality disorder road here. As I am now seeing this pretty clearly, my wife does this "splitting" things where she goes from Jeckel to Hyde or turns into Mini Me. This is like temporary insanity just using that terms in a general way since she simply loses her mind for a little while and then returns to normal again? During this brief moments in time....she is functioning and operating as a person with a personality disorder...but this is inconsistent..and not consistent and chronic...and is specific to just these times? When she goes off and slits and the logic train leaves the station...then all bets are off until she comes back down agains. She is liteally a blithering idiot duing these espisodes and nothing that comes out of her mouth makes any sense what so ever? But only for these brief periods once it goes then and then it comes back down and this goes away and she is not like this? So when I can keep the lid down on myself and keep saying "bring it down" I am keeping
"US" below her threshold point..and I'm not allowing "US" to go there. Not just me....but her as in the two of us.....or the "we" in this case. When she starts thought policing.....that is when things get out of hand? There is NO LOGIC...in the mind of the "thought policer"....everything that comes out of their mouth during that time is purely crap and makes no sense? You'd have to be able to mind read, in order for a thought policer to actually be accurate? Once you identify that they are "thought policing" you.....you can be absolutely sure without a doubt...that they have no idea what they are talking about...while they are accusing you of not knowing what "YOU" are talking about? Guaranteed! For sure sore sure. No one can mind read....that is a talent that NO ONE has? They might think they can, but that is a dysfunction if they believe they have that ability? The problem my wife has and I see and saw this too. He mom had the charactor or personality disorder and she was conditioned to do that with her? She had to do it with her....but only with someone of that particular dysfunction? This is what my wife is finding out on her own? She doesn't have to do that ...and every time she tries she sees or gets a lesson on what she's doing isn[t working? But only when she gets triggered ang the illogic train leaves the station? if I can keep US below "her threshold"...the conversation continues but I constantly have to regulate her, by regulating us...because she can't regulate her emotions...and by live how to do that for myself?
I don't think it as much of "changing the way of thinking"....it's changing your perception....to be accurate and to the point? Truly. Thinking is easy to change. Perception is a completely different thing and that really is what you have to change....thinking come after perception once you change that first. Thought policing though.....that was a big one, when I learned to spot it and control it and not allowing that to change my perception of myself. Big time. You can only change yourself but by doing so, it does have an impact and influence on the other person without a doubt. It';s a skill, like anything else? I didn't come with it that's for sure!! LOL
J
My father gradually lost my respect
Submitted by Terra on
My father acted as a "mischievous" boy, until my mother gave up, got a job in another town, and moved there, with us kids. (The summer between grades 4 & 5, for me.) I was upset at both of them for a while (kid's thinking: parents can solve anything, if they put their minds to it) and yet I'd been disgusted with my father for the three years before that, for treating our mom, his wife, with disrespect. This wasn't behavior for a married father to show to his daughters, towards his wife. (I didn't have the context, nor words to say so at 7 years old. But I remember my incredulity - and disgust, again - at his behavior.)
Over the next years, I gradually stopped worrying so much about my father's childish attitudes - which was a relief. I couldn't do anything, although I tried, finally, one day we were out with him, yelling, "Stop!! Just stop!! How would you like it if I talked that way about *your* mom?!?" It shouldn't have taken a kid setting him straight, before starting to act like a grownup & father.
My father, little by little, eroded his marriage. And, gradually, later, I realized, I didn't have "a dad" in my life anymore. I felt sorry for him, until he died. And I loved him, of course.
I had conversations about my worries, with my mom, in the two years or so following the separation. She said, yes, it's worrisome - but he's an adult. And it's part of being an adult to organize one's life. Which he can do (as she was doing, btw, without child support). I still got upset with her sometimes, for not "helping" this now-single man, who earned more than she did.
He lived with me, in his last years. To the end, he "couldn't understand" (couldn't face - anyway, it was long in the past) what "happened" to his marriage. Actually, if I'd had any shred of feeling, "my daddy" I couldn't have made that offer, or stuck to it. Ah well. Done and done.
Sorry for a long rambling post!
Mainly, I wanted to say, hug your granddaughters, and talk to them about *your* values. Tell them you understand their feelings toward their grandfather (You know the drill, I'm sure.) If he treated you with respect early in your marriage, tell them that.
PS He knows he's acting like a shit (which we all know isn't part of ADHD). And yes, some people really are clueless - this post is also for them - an outside perspective.
Best wishes, and prayers. Take good care of yourself, hey?