I am grateful for this forum and this site. It is helping me to learn about ADD, which I was totally ignorant about until I started dating a man with ADD (he told me on the first date). We have been dating (exclusive to one another) for a few months now. We come to this relationship late in life with our own respective baggage. In sum, I have abandonment and attachment issues stemming from abuse in my childhood, and he was exposed to severe childhood trauma as well. We recognize the most wonderful attributes in the other, and became quite close very early on in the relationship. We respect the strength shown in the other as we each faced our own childhood difficulties.
We are both on medication, and I see a counselor regularly. He does not engage in counseling. Our situation is further complicated by the fact that we live over a thousand miles apart. He appears to have a good relationship with his children, but no close friends in the same city. We both have been married previously and are now divorced.
Most of the aspects of ADD mentioned on this site appear to be present at some level, but the characteristics of ADD behavior that bother me the most are his sudden and extreme anger, his continual placing of blame on me for this anger, and his unwillingness to accept any responsibility for our relationship issues, or even discuss them. In many ways he is emotionally sensitive, and expresses a desire for deep human connection, as do I. We admire each other's intellect and humanity, and enjoy our physicality. On the other hand, somehow, we seem to be uniquely capable of causing each other deep pain.
I would like to hear from both ADD men, and women with ADD partners, with their thoughts about whether or not I should continue this relationship, and in particular if I should bring up my boyfriend's ADD as a serious threat to it. My perspective is that when I try to raise subjects around our relationship, he becomes immediately angry, blaming, says or writes very hurtful things, and then distances himself from me. His volatile anger is nearly always said to be my fault, because he finds my behavior to be outrageous and says that he cannot allow himself to be treated that way by me. Something about our interaction is clearly painful or frightening to him. He fends off talking about any difficult moments, by saying that it simply isn't worth the effort.
To my memory, I have never been critical of his forgetfulness, or difficulty in managing time or tasks. I have, however, chased after him when he preferred to be alone, and mentioned that his driving habits and anger sometimes frighten me. I have also indicated that I do not like being interrupted so often, and that I feel as though he cuts me off before I have a chance to explain myself. He would probably say that I assume what he is thinking without asking him directly, and that I take too long to say anything. And I certainly can be stubborn. So far, I have not brought up his ADD at all, but after doing my research on this site and others, it is clear to me that ADD is playing a large negative role in our relationship.
At the moment, we are speaking very little to one another. What is your advice, dear forum? Should I let this relationship slip into the past or should I bring up ADD as a major issue working against us? If the latter, how do I bring it up? I am fearful that he will react angrily and dismissively. Or, do you have other suggestions to make?
I am at wits end, and open to all your thoughts and advice.
Please Help. I don't want to make things worse
Submitted by Carma on
As I mentioned, I am the non-ADHD GF, and I have abandonment issues. These are triggered by my ADHD BF stalking off in anger/hurt/frustration quite often when conversations are difficult, and sometimes for no reason I can discern at all. He has literally threatened to physically abandon me hundred of miles from home on a trip. He also has threatened, and carried through on, abandoning joint plans with other people --- leaving me to explain or make excuses while trying to protect both our relationship and both of us from any feelings of shame or regret.
I love him, and I believe him when he says he loves me. I admire him for coping so well on his own while dealing with ADHD, death, divorce, self-medication, job loss and isolation. I am amazed at the wonderful times when he can be incredibly empathetic and emotional perceptive, but worry that we simply may not be right for one another, and do not have the tools or ability to make this relationship work. It is as though we were designed to push each other's buttons sometimes. I take responsibility for my part in that, especially as I chase after him when he wants to be alone. At the moment, we have not been communicating for 3 days, and I do not know the best way to re-engage, or even if I should.
Does anyone have some words of wisdom to offer? I don't want to make anything worse: His life, mine, or any possible relationship we might be able to have.
Carma, I feel like I could
Submitted by GiveMePatience on
Carma, I feel like I could have written a lot of what you wrote here above... It sounds like you and I experience many similar things... and your boyfriend sounds like he is very similar to my husband, in SO many ways. I, too, have been able to 'look past' the forgetfulness and such... but it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to not be affected by the ANGER... ESPECIALLY when it seems SOOOO 'out of place'...
I could comment on so many things that you have written here, Carma... but what I really want to share with you is how much of these 'issues' have changed... Issues like the 'tantrums', OVER-THE-TOP EMOTIONAL OUTBURSTS, etc... since my husband has been taking SUPPLEMENTS. I know that you mentioned that your boyfriend is on medication. My husband is not. Sometimes, of course, I wish that he was... But, I DO 'understand' that he does not want to take anything that may make him feel 'not so much like himself'. Anyway, I did ENDLESS research and found MANY things (vitamins and minerals) that the majority of people with ADHD are 'deficient' in. It took a little while... but the 'difference' in my husband is ENORMOUS. His memory has improved greatly. The time that it takes him to 'switch gears' is MUCH shorter. I have not seen any 'frustration tantrums' in MONTHS. He is MUCH 'sweeter', like he used to be. His 'patience' is MUCH greater... He lets me 'finish my sentence' and get to my point, WITHOUT 'interruption'. I could go ON AND ON. Again, it took AN INSANE amount of 'research', as well as 'trial and error'... but, it has been LIFE-CHANGING! Perhaps, your boyfriend can talk with his doctor about this.
I wish peace, strength and love for you both.
~GiveMePatience
Thank you GiveMePatience.
Submitted by Carma on
Thank you GiveMePatience. Your response has given me a thread to hold on to. I will research ADD and supplements to see what might help. My BF does take vitamins daily, and several other medications. Sometimes I worry about how they might negatively interact with one another, but I'm no doctor.
It is wonderful to hear from someone who has been there that it is possible for things to improve. Can I ask how long you have been together, and how long it took you to reach the point where you could both see substantial positive improvement in your relationship?
With gratitude and warm thoughts,
I Thank You...
Submitted by GiveMePatience on
I thank you, Carma, for your warm and kind words. It is also nice for me to know that there is 'someone out there' who 'understands'.
To answer your question, my husband and I started dating as teenagers. We have been together for 32 years now, married for 28. We, too, have gone through MANY of those 'three days without talking' days... I know that it is hard... But, when you have something REAL, it is 'worth' the 'heartache' that you sometimes experience.
The past 5 years have been pretty rough... So much so, there were MANY times that I almost called it quits... But, I have heard it said that 'right when you are about to give up, is when you are about to win!' So, I 'put on some armor' and actually STOPPED ENGAGING my husband in the ARGUMENTS. The ''substantial improvements'' have been felt within this past year. Of course, my husband HAS ADHD. It is what it is and it is not going to 'go away'... But, as someone who cares for him DEEPLY, it is my 'responsibility' to do whatever I can do, learn everything that I can possibly learn, to make our lives work as harmoniously as possible!
Carma, never forget this... Life to too short... AND TOO LONG... NOT to be happy.
~GMP
Acknowledgement and Growth
Submitted by Carma on
You appear to have been given what you asked for GMP: patience, and you deserve enormous respect for what you have been able to do. Do you feel that your husband is able to support you emotionally when you need it (outside ADHD issues)? Does he acknowledge that you are making an effort in addition to changes he has made? I believe I am capable of putting on the armor of which you spoke, in order to break some of the vicious cycles, but I think that in order to maintain that, I'd need to feel acknowledgement from him and see growth on his side too. Is that an unreasonable expectation?
Your Questions Are So Thoughtful, Carma.
Submitted by GiveMePatience on
Your questions are so thoughtful, Carma. It is obvious how much you 'care'... and how much you are TRYING. I know that the TRYING is hard. VERY hard...
I haven't quite known 'how' to answer the questions that you have asked here... These 'issues' run so deep... 'Do I feel that my husband is able to support me emotionally when I need it'? No... Not fully... But, I imagine that he probably feels that way, as well, about me... 'Does he acknowledge the effort that I make, in addition to the changes that he has made'? No... not openly... But, if I can 'answer' this for you by using an 'UNRELATED' example... I witnessed my mother BERATE AND HUMILIATE my father... who has been suffering with the symptoms of dementia... That was NOT going to be ME... Could my father 'help it"? No! CLEARLY. Do I feel like my husband can 'help it'? No. Not fully. Like my father, my husband is not even 'aware' of so many things... But, I KNOW his heart... and I know his heart would not HURT ME, 'intentionally'..... It took me A LONG TIME to find this 'understanding'...
I SO VERY MUCH 'UNDERSTAND' your need to ''feel acknowledgement'' from your boyfriend, Carma... and to see him 'trying to improve'. That is not unreasonable, AT ALL. I can tell you that this would not have been 'possible' for me, to get to the place where I am at, without that, without the 'effort' from my husband. But, I can also tell you that IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE. And, personally, I believe, it has to start with YOU. The one who is more 'objective' about the 'effects' of this condition. And, if I may, I believe that you FIND THAT STRENGTH TO START, in the ''ACKNOWLEDGEMENT'' of THE TRUTH. The 'truth' that this just simply is THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Even when your boyfriend is YELLING... and flying off the handle... HE HAS A 'CONDITION' THAT MAKES HIM DO THIS. YOU DON'T!
Rise above it ALL, Carma... and I believe that YOU WILL BOTH BE LIFTED.
~GMP
It has to start somewhere
Submitted by Carma on
Once again, GMP, I feel you've hit a nail on the head. Yesterday, I spoke briefly to my counselor, and he said the same thing: It has to start somewhere. It starts when one partner tolerates their own unpleasant emotions and hangs in there to make the other feel safe, loved, heard, and valued. Someone has to break the cycle. It is empowering to know that I have the choice to attempt to be that partner, at least if I can stay mindful in the face of powerful emotions that stem from both our pasts and neurological wiring.
ONE MORE THING!
Submitted by GiveMePatience on
One more thing, Carma,
I KNOW that it is a VERY difficult subject to 'bring up'... and, if you are like me, you would prefer things be 'left unsaid', rather than deal with the ANGER... :( If your boyfriend is still in that place where he DENIES that the ADHD is causing problems... and this makes you 'uncomfortable' to talk with him about... I would like to recommend a book, written by a 'fellow ADHD-er' called 'The Drummer and the Great Mountain'. The author's approach is a little more 'palatable' for the ADHD-er who is in 'denial'... as he refers to the ADHD person as "hunter types". (As in, there are 'hunters' and there are 'farmers'). Personally, I was 'unsuccessful' for about a year, trying to talk with my husband about ADHD... and the problems that it was causing. It was not until I found this book and gave it to my husband, was he 'open' to talking about it.
You sound like such a lovely and 'level-headed' lady, Carma. I'm SURE that you will find your answers.
~GiveMePatience
The Drummer and the Great Mountain
Submitted by Carma on
Thanks again, GMP. I will look for The Drummer and the Great Mountain, although Amazon doesn't seem to have it. I'm actually not sure if my BF is "in denial" about ADD affecting our relationship or not, for the simple reason that we have never discussed it directly. For different reasons, perhaps, neither of us has been able to broach the topic. I know that somehow we need to get to that point, but I don't know how. Perhaps our relationship is just too new.
Thanks
Submitted by Carma on
Thanks
Drummer and Mountain
Submitted by Carma on
GMP, I just wanted to say that I found an electric version of the book The Drummer and the Great Mountain, which I have purchased and am working my way through. Whether or not the underlying principle of the book "the hunter-type" is accurate or not, it does seem as though the book has practical, useful perspectives and suggestions. My sense is that it may be too soon for me to mention this book to my boyfriend (perhaps he is even already aware of it?), though. Perhaps first we need to see if we can build some elemental trust in one another. This forum, including this book, is helping to give me some perspective in doing that.
Labels
Submitted by Chevron on
Hello, Carma
Responding to your original question whether or not to bring up your partner's ADD to him. It's just a thought but a lot of people are sensitive to having a label with negatives attached to it attached to them. They react to the label when its used to characterize them. If your partner has been formally diagnosed with ADD or ADHD, or has figured out on his own that he has it, he's had a long time before you arrived in hs life to be criticized, using that label, or to struggle with his sense of deficiency in one thing or another, using that label on himself.
It might be worth considering not using that labeling, since it has a whole cluster of symptoms, his own cluster associated with that single name, plus a host of incidents and interactions with people in the past who you know nothing about memories of which you could be setting off, inadvertently. Single word names of people's nature and history bear very heavy burdens.
Instead of naming the whole diagnosis or self diagnosis, and waking up all those feelings and defenses, how about tackling interpersonal situations, one by one, that for you risk being deal breakers...you know in your heart that later down the road, no matter how much later, you would have to walk away from the relation over.
One for me was anger.
I knew from myself and from watching the impact on me of either my anger or his, or worse, our simultaneous anger, that it was unlivable, if he and I didnt do the interactions better in that area, I'd leave.
Which one would you start with?
Labels: New to me but old to him
Submitted by Carma on
Chevon, thank you for your thoughtful answer about labels, in response to my question about whether I should mention to my boyfriend that ADD/ADHD is having a negative impact on our relationship.
As I read what you wrote, I realized that this is all new to me, but probably all too old to him. For me, it was actually a kind of relief to realize that so many things I had noticed might be the result of his ADD rather than his inner self. But this is what he has been living with since he was diagnosed over 10 years ago. Not only recognizing and living with the effects of ADD, but also living with the reactions of others to ADD behaviors and who may attribute them to his essential character rather than his different neurological make-up. As someone who has undergone severe major depression episodes myself, perhaps I should have realized this sooner.
Thank goodness for this forum, which can give me some much needed wisdom and experience.
Chevron, you asked which potential deal breaker would I start with in my relationship with my BF? Certainly it would be the cycle of his anger and withdrawal, and my emotional reaction to abandonment. As a beginning, I would like to build trust in each of us, that (1) we do not intend to hurt, and (2) that we will be there for each other when the storm passes. I don't know if this is possible since at the moment he does not appear willing to even approach any subject relates to "us."
But, for the time being, I feel as though I have gained a second wind.
Character
Submitted by Chevron on
Carma, you wrote about deciding what came from
...his essential character rather than his different neurological make-up.
This is such a difficult distinction. But so important to try to discern.
... I do think that, despite all the very real hardship that people with ADHD go through in their relationships, that there's no "hall pass" to excuse adults with ADHD from treating other people with basic decency. I'm old enough school that basic decency (adult version) includes some straightforward communication, basic courtesy and showing up and trying.
So you and I share a real concern about anger. You didn't, of course, "make" him (at his age!) angry.
Take care of you as you sort through all this. The effort can't be just on one side. That won't work.
You write like you're a real sweetheart.
Chevron
Relationship over a great distance
Submitted by Carma on
Chevron, I'm listening to you about realizing, and I guess, truly internalizing, that the effort can't just be on one side. The times I have seen my boyfriend make a conscious decision to act and communicate in ways that strengthen our relationship and understanding of one another have been so joyous and uplifting for me. But much of the time, I feel alone. I truly can imagine that he feels alone too. The question is how to bridge that gulf with trust, love and connection.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm being unrealistic: we are only months into a relationship, and separated by over a thousand miles. The good news is that after a few days of silence, we are back in touch again.
Has anyone out there had experience with a non- + ADD- over a great distance?
Neither my BF or I want to have a long-distance relationship, but there are some realities that mean that we cannot be in the same city for at least another 6-9 months. In that time, we will likely either grow apart or grow together. Is the latter possible? Does this forum have any suggestions to make growing together more likely?
Carma
Patience and hope
Submitted by SweetandSour on
This is one of the more positive threads I've read on this site. All three of you seem to actually be trying and succeeding to make things better in your relationships by owning and changing your own behavior and you have sensitivity and compassion for your partners' struggles. I think this is what we all need to do. I hope you are feeling good about yourselves and that your relationships continue to heal from this approach.
Trying, because it is worth it
Submitted by Carma on
SweetandSour:
Thank you. I am grateful for those who have posted on this thread with such wisdom, honesty and hope.
Actually, I find most things on this forum helpful: both the honest, discouraging ones, and the honest, hopeful ones. Some of the threads are scary, but I do need to have a clear idea of what might lie ahead. Not what WILL lie ahead, but what might. At the same time, I think we sometimes abdicate our own ability to make a change, in ourselves, that will help both us and those we care about. Not everything is in our control, but some things are. I guess the key is to be able to tell the difference.
I honestly don't know what is going to happen with respect to my own situation and relationship. But for now, I am trying because I feel it is worth it. My boyfriend is remarkable in so many ways,the ADD is just one of them. With him, I have experienced a kind of connection that I've not experienced before, born, I think, from common painful experience and a desire to keep picking oneself up. I don't want to have any regrets about not doing all that I reasonably can to make our relationship work.
The universe has given us the opportunity of intersecting lives. What we do with that depends on us both. -Carma
Not with a bang but a whimper
Submitted by Carma on
Today, after expecting an end-of-week Skype, my dear man instead wrote me a short email, saying that he was going to focus on being self sufficient, and not being in an active relationship. He said he did not plan on communicating on a regular basis and ended our exclusive relationship.
So this is how it ends?
. . .
Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o'clock in the morning.
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long
. . .
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
- T.S. Eliot
We've had an incredible few months, he and I, sometimes together, and sometimes separated by over a thousand miles. I am grateful for all of those times. My note back to him said that I am here, should he want to communicate anytime in future. I meant it. I know he is a good man.
I do not see this bittersweet relationship --- which I have been so lucky to experience --- through the lens of ADD, but with the awareness of it, an awareness that I did not have before. I also acknowledge my own emotional echoes and weaknesses, and pledge to hold them in awareness.
So thank you, dear forum, for your advice and understanding. I'm posting this comment as a footnote of gratitude to this thread. I must be prepared that it may be an epilogue as well. I admire the authenticity of all who post and struggle here.
Finally, although I am not religious in the usual sense of the word, I want to share the following, in case it may be of value to you, as it is to me:
https://cac.org/
Start anywhere. I started here:
https://cac.org/saved-by-grace-2015-11-15/
[ Edited to say: And just in case it isn't clear in what I've written above: I am hurt and confused, ashamed and exhausted, and missing him very much. ]