Submitted by PoisonIvy on 03/25/2016.
My spouse and I are in the midst of a divorce, and he is not communicating at all: not responding to any emails, voicemail messages, or U.S. mail. Lack of communication has always been an issue but now I think and feel that it's very possible he'll never speak to me again. I don't know if he has been communicating with our adult children, but I'm concerned that he might be shutting them out, too. I'm having a hard time coping with this. Any suggestions for adjusting to this situation?
I don't think is unusual when
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
I don't think is unusual when divorcing. Some couples only "speak" thru their attys while divorcing.
If you don't have minor aged children, why do you need to communicate directly?
Your H may be using silence as a passive agressive control issue.
Mom is mom and dad is dad
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Rose Red,
Children love their mom and they love their dad. When they are no longer small, and become adults, they can maintain their own relationship with each parent. We would be just as unable to maintain the Father/Child relationship as we were the Husband/Wife relationship. I think your children already know who their Dad is. They can figure it out on their own.
Very truly,
Liz
Maybe it will help if I
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Maybe it will help if I rephrase this: I am facing the possibility that the person with whom I spent nearly all my adult life will never communicate with me again. It's like he died, except he didn't die. I'm not asking for explanations (I know why he's behaving this way) or reminders of what I can't fix (I know I have no power or control over anyone else.) Please suggest ways for me to cope with my continuing feelings of being no better than a piece of crud on the bottom of my husband's shoe.
What's a girl to do. . . . . .?
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Rose Red,
Now that you have identified that you have "continuing feelings of being no better than a piece of crud on the bottom of my husband's shoe", try to sit with that revelation for a while - but do not stay there.
I do not believe a person can just snap their fingers and change their thought pattern. I do believe a person can change their thought pattern.
While you are sitting there, be real; cry a river over it. Maybe a rushing, gushing flood. Investing a lifetime of effort into something, and having it fall to pieces before our eyes is a real devastating blow. No doubt about it.
Then choose to, Rose Red must choose to, choose to build a bridge over it. There is truth to the old saying "When I got busy, I got better."
When the bridge is finished, walk over it into a better place.
How long will it take? Who knows. I really believe you need to have a new goal to work towards.
For me, I am only in the process. I want that better place. I am working towards that better place. In the best of all possible worlds, my own spouse will want to discover that place. I am determined that even if he does not/cannot/willnot. . . . .Liz WILL. And I will not regret as I fully believe I have opened every book, every nook of my being, every possible route I could try, and I tried it, continually seeking the place of living in contentment. A wonderful peaceful relationship will be a great thing. My marriage is not longer the main thing. I value myself first and foremost. Then I find contentment with what I can add to a relationship. Me alone, I cannot make a relationship.
I have discovered that if my own goal is to convince my spouse of anything. . . . .I will fail.
I have discovered that if I base my own self-worth and value on what I get/receive/hear from my spouse, or any other human being for that matter, then I am in trouble.
I read lots of posts here. I consider suggestions very carefully. Some are plausible. Some are down-right "not for Liz." Maybe they work for someone else. I am at peace enough with my own being; so much so that I can say, nope, not for me.
And there are those nuggets of truth. those wonderful pieces of wisdom that help me move on to a better place.
I am so very sorry that your hoped for ending did not happen. Where you go - or where you stay - this is your responsibility to maintain. You got some tough choices, and lots of opportunities.
Very truly,
Liz
Rose, I don't know if this
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Rose, I don't know if this will give you anything to work with, but I hope it does.
From the time that you first posted that your husband was freezing you out with zero communication, I've thought about you. It's a terrible thing to go through. Just some thoughts:
1) He's doing it. You're not making him do it. So he's taking the initiative. And in my book that kind of behavior is very juvenile or incompetent. I know that there now is a total media blackout...ghosting, I think they call it, of someone who up to that point had been a friend, a lover, a dalliance. And he's your longtime spouse, so that's so much worse, relationally. I think people who ghost are just not handling it. It doesn't make it feel any better on the receiving end, but that's the way I see it: the ghosters are incompetent at an adult ending...either that or so lacking in valuing relationship that it has been a non relation to them, so it can be handled from their end like something as inhuman as turning off a water faucet. But my guess from people is that its that the ghoster doesn't have what it takes to do an adult, communicative ending. There are deliberately cruel people in the world, but most, the rest of us go along, and sometimes blunder and fail. I think ghosters are usually among the rest of us, and just don't do endings well.
2) I once had this blackout happen to me, and the blackout, as you're going through, was complete. Rose, I went through a long spell of trying to communicate, and nothing came back. I had a lot of time to think about that black out I was confronting, and enough time to end up watching myself struggle with it. Alas, alas, when a person in control of a telephone, his voice, where he goes and doesn't go, his net communications, his mail, decides not to communicate, I don't think there's anything that you and I can do to cajole, reason, or force him into communicating. For me, it ws completely spinning my wheels; he never did respond although yes, long after I had let go, I'd say a year and a half later, here he came. But people can't live in the dark for 1 1/2 years, and then resume relationship, so I had gone on.
3) I want to tell you about the blackout itself at least as it happened to me. I don't know if what I'm going to write in any way transfers to your prior relation with your husband or not. If not, toss it in the round file and don't have a thought more about it. My prior relation with the man who did this blackout on me was an on again, off again thing, and I could never predict when he'd show up. By show up, I mean, show signs, with his words, of his feelings for me. But I also mean, literally show up. A lot of the relation was long distance, via the internet and telephone. I never knew when he'd suddenly not answer my emails for a couple, three, how long? weeks, and if or when he'd return. I never knew why he disappeared. He didn't say before he disappeared, and he didn't say when he got back. I also never knew when my calls, whatever I wrote, struck him the way that I wrote them, or when he'd suddenly veer off into accusing me of being something like condescending and I knew by that that he was 'way off in a different relational world than I was, at the moment. I never could predict when we'd get from talking about it, to getting together. So the whole relation was, although continuing, on again, from my point of view, off again, where did it go? So if you like I had had quite a warm up in many lesser incidents, for that blackout that ended things. Here's the deal: his unpredictability (from my point of view and ability to guess when he'd do what) had conditioned me to do ANYthing that I could think of to keep the good times rolling....if you like, the crumbs of good, intermettently appearing, got me hooked on waiting for him, waiting out his unpredictable showing up and disappearances. I was hooked on trying to get more crumbs of good, and on waiting 'way longer than was good for me, for him to show up.
4) So when he disappeared into what I called the Black Hole, I did everything I could to get him to come out of it, and the not knowing if he would or not really tore into me.
5) There was something about the absolute blackness of the blackout of contact with me that I spent a long time discerning feelings about and thinking about. Here's a guess. Again, if this doesn't fit with your life, toss it in the trashcan, please: Rosered, what I thought about me and that black blackout, is that I'm not made for blackouts like that. I do have ability to theorize and remember what other people show that they care about. I do strongly tend to live not only in myself but in sharing, in communicating. I'm not psychologically built for extreme blackout. So the blackout itself did a number on me. And I had been conditioned, hooked, onto trying to cross relational distance and re-connect when unpredictably, the person in my life disappeared, quit emailing, whatever. My job was to get un-hooked from that unhealthy pattern. Look it wouldn't have done me any good to keep doing it. He wasn't there, he wasn't going to be there. I was hooked, conditioned, addicted to trying to communicate and to hope that there were more crumbs from him.
6) I found it difficult to unhook myself, but I didn't get any peace of mind, or stop obsessing about "I can't tolerate this blackout" until I figured out how to start to do that. Passing time helped, but it didn't do it all
I recognize that you're in the very tough situation of needing to get through a ...divorce process, do I remember?....with someone who isn't cooperating with the process, if I remember your first post about this right. So, it's a downer, and I recognize that your Ghost is doing more than incompetently not doing anything. I'll look up your first post or posts that talk about your situation to refresh my memory. But if you've gotten to the point of lawyers, that's what lawyers are for. Yours can communicate with his. Lawyers know that they have to communicate with each other and the court, so I don't think he could instruct his not to communicate with yours.
That won't give you marital relation consolation.
I've thought about your situation over and over again, because that blackout I went through really had me in a bad state for awhile, and I wouldn't want you to go through that. I'm all for breaking one's own isolation in these kinds of things, and having someone in your corner, off line as well as online here, to talk to as you work this stuff through. Do you have someone offline who knows what you're going through?
Now
Thank you. I see that you
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Thank you. I see that you understand the horror of the blackout, and I really appreciate you revisiting that bad time of your own, to help me through mine.
Neither of us has a lawyer. I am a lawyer and feel comfortable going through the process without hiring someone to represent me. I mean, it would be nice to not have to do the grunt work, but I don't have the money to pay a lawyer, and I think I'd end up paying a lot for phone calls and such that my husband wouldn't respond to.
Rose,
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Rose,
Well the lawyer to lawyer communication won't work for you, then. Has he brought the legal process to a halt, with his non-communication?
He has not brought it to a
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
He has not brought it to a halt but he has slowed it down. For example, I proposed a marital agreement (division of property, etc.), sent it to him, asked him to either sign it and send it back or make notes on it as to his counteroffer and send it back. I included a self-addressed stamped envelope. He did not send it back or respond in any other way. So now, instead of just mailing this signed agreement to the court, we have to have a status conference, which means time out of my work day. He probably won't attend it and if he does participate, I assume it will be by phone. It's bad enough that he sabotaged the marriage; refusing to participate in the process of putting the marriage out of its misery is just cruel.
I think it might be a little easier for me to recover from the abandonment and destruction of the marriage if I were not living in a house that is falling apart because he never got around to fixing things and that is filled with his junk that I can't do anything with until the divorce is finalized.
Is it possible to start
Submitted by adhd mama on
Is it possible to start boxing his stuff and stacking it in an out of the way place so you can enjoy transforming your home to how you like it? Make small repairs to start healing the building as you heal your heart? Im the adhd-er in my marriage, I know colors in pillows, and paint have a huge change/shift on my mind, even just changing one "focal" wall could make your home feel more yours and less shared with him.
Thank you for the suggestion.
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Thank you for the suggestion. I'm trying to do this but sometimes I get overwhelmed, by the work and by the emotions.
Show up with documents and ask for signatures, etc?
Submitted by CosmicJoke on
Dear Rosered,
My husband also hangs up on me or refuses to take my calls. The ace in my hand, which I am careful to use sparingly, is to just "pleasantly" show up at his office. I've had to do this twice with forms my son needed signed by him. When he is startled, he tends to slow down and agree to cooperate so I will go away.
Does it hurt to write that last sentence? Yes. As we grown farther apart, I see myself travel through the stages of grief. The plus sides involve peace, quiet, a sense of owning my life, the occasional ability to spend time with an old friend or notice an especially beautiful sunset. But it's not a smooth journey, perhaps others will agree. Just a week or so ago, I spent Sunday in bed weeping--ironically, I am finally feeling good enough and sane enough to revisit some of the real horror stories from my marriage. I'm sorry you are feeling the sting of looking at your spouse with clearer vision. So very, very sorry. You are grieving, yes?
Meanwhile, since you already feel bad...maybe you haven't much more to lose by going to the bakery, buying a pie, putting it on the front seat next to your briefcase, and driving over to the in-laws to pay a surprise visit? You can act happy to see them? He'll do what it takes to get you to leave? You'll feel awful afterwards. But the paper will be signed so you can eventually feel better?
Like all advice offered here, this comes with sincere apologies if it is off-base. And great admiration for what you've been through with such grace. Sending warm wishes...
Thank you for the suggestion.
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Thank you for the suggestion. It is a good one. Unfortunately, my in-laws live 150 miles away, and I don't feel motivated, desperate, or nice enough to make a 5-to-6-hour trip that would possibly be for naught, if my husband refused to sign the agreement.
Hugs
Submitted by CosmicJoke on
Yes, others' problems always look simpler to solve. Apologies. Maybe that's Plan Z? At my end, with my sons both legal adults now, I am gently bringing them in to family discussions of finances and responsibilities. There are times when my husband's "decisions" affect their futures. This is a delicate issue to navigate. But I share because I too, am forced at times to work with an uncooperative husband for the greater good of the family. I hope you look back at all this from a better place in a year or so. You deserve it.
If I were you Rosered, I
Submitted by c ur self on
If I were you Rosered, I think I would write myself a letter. A letter that details your husbands life ever since you've known him....I would put in that letter the way he viewed everything that had to do with being a husband. I would make a list of topics....Such as Provider, Communicator, Lover, I would list the way he viewed his responsibilities in the home. Jobs he had, Times he changed Jobs and what his reason's were for doing it....I would put everything I knew or learned about him over your life....Just put it all down the good, and the not good....
Then I would set it on my dresser and read it once a day for few weeks....If you think of things you forgot, add it...If you remember details you have wrong change it....
I think in a month or so, you will be able to move on. I think there will be a story that comes to you from the letter....A story that makes what is going on now not such a shock...I think you find Rose again, a healthy Rose who's self esteem isn't attached to the man who abandoned her....
I will pray for you...
C
I really like your idea C
Submitted by adhd mama on
I really like your idea C,
I could see how that would really help remember the good and the bad and all of the lessons that Rose can take from this relationship.
After writing/editing/ and reading over that letter, I would suggest making a mini-bucket list, remember the things you loved when you where single that where set aside, remember something you always wanted to try but put off, take a small trip just for yourself, explore the world around you and find a new inspiration. You already made the toughest decision of putting your needs first and filing for the divorce, it will play out even if he pretends that it won't. Now is the time to accept slow healing from the years of pain.
Prayers for you from my house too.
I really like your idea C
Submitted by adhd mama on
I really like your idea C,
I could see how that would really help remember the good and the bad and all of the lessons that Rose can take from this relationship.
After writing/editing/ and reading over that letter, I would suggest making a mini-bucket list, remember the things you loved when you where single that where set aside, remember something you always wanted to try but put off, take a small trip just for yourself, explore the world around you and find a new inspiration. You already made the toughest decision of putting your needs first and filing for the divorce, it will play out even if he pretends that it won't. Now is the time to accept slow healing from the years of pain.
Prayers for you from my house too.
You're dealing with intense feelings of rejection....
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
You're dealing with intense feelings of rejection. I think it's best if you see a therapist who can help you thru these feelings. They are painful, but it only makes it worse if when you repeatedly reach out to him, only to get silence in return.
Sadly, I think he's enjoying this. He opens his email or looks at his phone and sees a communication from you. He then gets to (gleefully) ignore it. You're giving him that ugly gift. Stop. Probably if you did stop, he'd find some excuse to contact you after awhile. If that were to happen, do not respond.
I now see that you're acting as your own atty. Well, then when you do send things, send them using a professional tone, and send them in the manner that he has to sign to accept them (so he can't claim that he never received them). Keep all emotions out. Pretend that you're handling someone else's divorce.
When my H filed for divorce (twice!), I completely ignored him. I didn't answer his calls or texts. I didn't reach out to him except to tell him our dog died...and I did that by text. I'm sure he was shocked that I wasn't calling, texting, etc. I think he thought I was going to be begging for him to return. No way would I ever do that. It was important to me to hold my head high. Yes, with my sister and my best friend, I would cry about various things, but to others I was a rock. There was no way I would give him the reaction that he wanted. He wanted me to "fight for him" and beg him to talk to me or drop the divorce. No flipping way would I do that.
I agree with the suggestion of "being busy". I can understand why going thru his stuff would be upsetting.
Once you're divorced, will you be able to throw it all away if he doesn't come get it within a certain amount of time?
Yes, this is like a death, but in some ways worse. At least when a person dies, those left behind feel that the dead person would communicate with them if possible. In a divorce situation like this, it is worse because a choice not to communicate is being made.
I remember two sisters who lost their husbands within a month of each other. One to death, one to divorce. The divorced lady's husband left her for another woman, and cut all communication even though they had been married for a long time and had 6 kids together. The widowed sister told me this: This is harder on my sister then what's happened to me (widowed). My husband would love to be with me if he could. She's facing the daily feelings of painful rejection."
You need to see a therapist who can help you work thru those feelings of rejection. But, keep in mind: you were rejected by someone who wasn't a fabulous person. In fact, from your writings, it appears that you were rejected by a rather self-centered person. The better people in your life haven't rejected you. Hold onto that.
I am so sorry
Submitted by dvance on
I am so very sorry for you. I may know what you are feeling just a little tiny bit. Four years ago I came home from school one day and my husband's keys and garage door clicker were on the table. Gone. Now, he had just been hospitalized for a suicide attempt and severe depression and PTSD in addition to the ADHD. We were NOT in a good place marriage-wise, so it's not like all was well and this was out of the blue, it wasn't. But--for the first 4 months he was gone he would not speak to me. At all. No calls, texts, emails, nothing. To this day I don't know where he lived during that time. It was the most peculiar feeling to have "daily sightings" of someone and then POOF--gone. Silence. Even if we were talking about a divorce. Even if we were in a terrible place. Even if there were 3 other women involved with him. Even if his ADHD was a nightmare to live with. I think it was the abruptness of the GONE that was the hardest. You will grieve and mourn no matter how poor your marriage was. I cried and threw up for two months and then ever so slowly I got my balance back. Little by little. I started to unclench, to not mind being my own self (I had two kids home with me at the time plus a full time job which was good actually). I started to relax in a way I could not remember EVER doing in my adult life-not thinking over what I will say and how I will say it and how it will be received so many time that I don't even bother to say it. I cleaned like a bat, didn't sleep much at first. I'm not going to lie--it was truly awful at first. But it got better and I found out I liked being on my own with no other grown up to parent. Now, hubby did come home and 4 years later, I often think it was a mistake. Once he left we should have stayed that way. I could be 4 years into the healing process but instead I have wasted yet another chunk of my life with him for little return. One big thing--get therapy. I don't care how broke or busy you are. Lots of communities have mental health services with a sliding scale if you need it. If you live near a university, they often have community services. Really--you need the support. It is like a death. I am so sorry
Rose red,you are not alone
Submitted by lulu18 on
Rose red, I have always followed your comments with such interest, as you are so honest and open. Now, my heart breaks for you. The quote that came to mind when reading your cry for help was " the only way out is through." Gently, slowly, lovingly, accepting all your feelings., even if they sound unacceptable, helps to really feel entitled to your pain. No one has the right to take it from you. That way you will choose to let it go when you are ready. walking through the pain is not a solo endeavor- you need a really good guide to keep you steady and breathing. I am going through my own version of your situation, as I asked (read-demanded) that my husband move out. We are not divorced yet, but the money it took me three years to save for a divorce is now in the hands of an attorney. It has been a nightmare of the first order. I have a young son-age 11- who has ever increasing medical needs in addition to ADHD meeting puberty. Just breathing some days is a struggle. My feelings overwhelm me, but for the first time I am not numb to them. I am doing nothing to run from them or numb them away. I am distracting myself with anything non-destructive I can find. It helps. This feels different than anything I have ever gone through. I am facing each feeling- the rage, resentment, contempt, sadness, frustration, and grief. Every day is a brand new adventure in how to ride the roller coaster of feelings without numbing out. Being present is new- I numbed myself out for 15 years with food, shopping, chocolate- you name it. Now I am slowly letting in feelings a little at a time. I feel like the biggest jerk on earth for begging for crumbs of attention and letting my self worth shrink until it disappeared. Being ignored is worse in some ways than overt abuse. But I matter. I tell myself that fiercely every day. Even if I don't believe it. I matter. I am worthy of more than crumbs. I deserve more than silence and being ignored. Walking and saying these things to myself helps. My self esteem grows daily. Don't believe the lies you were fed by his silence. They are lies. You matter. You are important. My son loves this British TV show called Dr. Who, and here is a quote I love -" I have lived for 900 years (it's a science fiction show) and in all that time I have never met anyone who wasn't important." Many blessings to you.
Life Connection
Submitted by jennalemone on
It is spring!!! The doldrums are nearly over. New life is nearly here. As the days become brighter, more exercise, good nutrition, positive social groups, walking outdoors, old friends, new friends, family...What a time for new life! Your story is the birth of a new journey with a long and difficult labor. A year of hard work and determination. After it is over I hope you will come back here to tell us how you are doing.
I feel like I had been in limbo keeping myself small and safe. I seem to be stuck and don't really know what is keeping me stuck. I am now trying to vulnerably live with love and confidence.
You are getting UN-STUCK. I hope you find peace and integrity at the end of this difficult process. May you find connection with Life in a new and fresh way. I wish you the best.