So most days most of us do okay with the lack of support or emotional connection in our marriages, or at least we have made our peace with it. But then there are days where you think you are keeping all the balls in the air and one comes CRASHING down and you realize just how alone you are even when there is another supposed adult in the house. That was my day today. Four weeks ago I had back surgery. It went great and I feel terrific. The bill came in the mail. Thank GOD for our terrific insurance (from my job) because the entire thing was $20,000 and we only owe $1900. Now, understand I still can't just write a check for $1900 but it beats the heck out of the $20K. So that is on my mind. My two teen boys went back to school yesterday. I went back today--so there are those moving pieces. DH was out of town all last week and yesterday and today. I am an Assistant Principal, so I was at school every moment of the past two weeks getting ready for teacher meetings, hiring new teachers--we hired two on FRIDAY for goodness sake, and they need help and support to get started. So that has to be done. I also teach 4 classes, so that planning has to be done. My oldest son, age 17, sees a counselor for addiction (he OD'd in January and was in rehab for 6 weeks). He sees the counselor every two weeks. It costs $175 for each appointment and it is NOT covered by our insurance. I have a google calendar that all 4 of us are on plus a white board calendar in the kitchen. The last two counselor appointments, DS drove himself to--two weeks ago I had an evening school meeting and DH was out of town. Two weeks before that was the day after my surgery and DH was out of town. Tonight DS texts me at 7pm from his work that he thinks he has an appointment tonight but he is at work and can't go. Sure enough--he had the appointment, but he had not put it on any calendar or told me about it and so I am charged the $175. And down comes one of the many balls in the air. I really cannot afford to pay that kind of money for nothing. Bad enough I pay it at all, but at least DS gets something out of it. And DH is out of town. So all of this is on me. Like always, but today it got to me. I called the counselor and tried to explain and he was having none of it AND he does not send confirmations--not his policy. Gee thanks--way to help out busy families. And we have marriage counseling on Saturday and I don't even know what I would say because DH always blames whatever I have to say on the stress of my job. Which cracks me up because I LOVE my job. It is my dream job. My principal is terrific to work for, we have a great staff this year, we hired some terrific teachers, I like my students. I am actually good at my job. People respect my 15 years of experience and 3 degrees at my job. My job is not stressful. My job is rewarding. I love my job and I am good at my job. How can two people have such completely different experiences of the same thing? I think this marriage royally sucks and DH thinks it's fine.
So that was my rant. The financial stuff worries me no end. DH does not worry about anything as far as I can tell. Last week we got a $980 bill for something else that DH didn't know about and he just left if for me--didn't even ask what it was or why we had that amount for that bill. How strange is that. I would be at least a teeny bit curious. The missed appointment and money wasted really made me feel deflated and defeated. We have so much debt already, it just kills me to see that much go out the door for nothing.
The 17 year old is old enough
Submitted by overwhelmedwife on
The 17 year old is old enough to be responsible for his appts. He should have to pay for the missed appt...not you.
Does your husband work? Does he earn a good income? What do you mean by the 980 bill? Was that an expense from your H?
When you go to marriage counseling and it's your turn to speak, open up with something like: My job is great, I enjoy it, and it's not stressful. I'm very grateful that my job does not create or add to any of the problems within our marriage. That should take some/all of the wind out of your H's sails to blame your job on anything.
Live and Learn.....This is Where it Starts...I Agree OW
Submitted by kellyj on
"Tonight DS texts me at 7pm from his work that he thinks he has an appointment tonight but he is at work and can't go. Sure enough--he had the appointment, but he had not put it on any calendar or told me about it and so I am charged the $175. And down comes one of the many balls in the air. I really cannot afford to pay that kind of money for nothing. Bad enough I pay it at all, but at least DS gets something out of it. And DH is out of town. So all of this is on me. Like always, but today it got to me. I called the counselor and tried to explain and he was having none of it AND he does not send confirmations--not his policy."
I don't want to be insensitive to Dvance's situation...since these things evolve over time and get to be this way for a reason. It's unfair to criticize or look at someone personal situation and just make blanket statements or generalizations without seeing the entire story in context to how a person got there.,.,,but saying.....this is where it starts.
SHIT ROLLS DOWN HILL This I feel ...is a Universal concept. If you are at the bottom of the hill....then you will ALWAYS.....get the SHIT.
Let's back this up for a moment....working back up to the top....starting from the bottom up...shall we?
Who's at the Bottom...and who's at the Top of the Hill here???? mmmmmm????? Let's see????
Dvance has to pay for the missed appointment out of pocket but she works and has a good job. That's not the problem?
The counselor has a right to earn a living and get paid for his missed opportunity to make a living by reserving that time for his clients....and he's not required to be every ones Ma ma and remind people and send appointment reminders either. That's not his/her job.....his/her job is being a councilor...not a baby sitters. This would require more time on their part even though....that may be in his/her best interest to do so since....people aren't perfect either......"a stitch in time.....saves 9?"
Predicting people to fail would be in the interest of of themselves since the time and head aches of not doing this spent and having to receive phone calls from (in this case) Dvance who are pleading with them due to circumstance....takes more time than the reminder itself.
But then again....this is an addiction councilor....there may be a reason why they have this policy? Let's continue on up the hill?
So now ....the 17 teen year old is working. That's good. But he knows when he is scheduled for work...and he knows he has an appointment. Clearly....he remembered the day he had the appointment....but at the same time...had to work too?
If DS has ADHD.;....this is exactly why this happens. He got so caught up in doing one thing...he forgot about the other one...until it's too late.
THAT....right there....is a personal problem. It's not the councilors fault or responsibility and he doesn't owe anyone to change his policy. It's Okay when someone forgets....but he/she shouldn't be the one paying the price for someone else personal problem.....should they?
It's not Dvances problem....that her son has an addiction and needs to go to counseling but she is his mother and needs to be supportive and HELP him in a supportive way but not necessarily .....pay the price for it. Paying the price for someone else's Fuck Up is neither support or encouragement....that's just taking someone else's personal problems and Fuck Ups...as your own and paying the price for it. it sounds she has no problem with being supportive and encouraging at all...so this is not Dvances problem either.
So where's the problem here? Who's at the Top of the Hill and Top of the food chain?
Dvance?....or her 17 year old son who got himself addicted to what ever...and now forgot he had an appointment and didn't make arrangements to get the time off from work until it was too late to do anything about it. The Buck Stops here....but this is where Bullshit starts rolling down hill...right from this point.
Here's the Bullshit pathway right here......
He calls Mom to help bail him out and who calls the councilor which take time out of her day to deal with...HIS personal problem.
And now...the councilor has to take time from their day....to talk to Mom and spend time explaining and answering phone calls all day...from people calling them that they forgot...but do I have to still pay? Which I'm sure....with addiction clients.....this happens all day long all the time? Right? That's a waste of time and energy and costs money and time....that could be used in other ways?
And now the Bullshit bounces back to Mom...and since Dad is out of town.....Mom gets the Bullshit...of her 17 year son to deal with....because he doesn't have to....as long as he gets to be at the Top of the hill and top of the food chain...and everyone else is working for him and paying the price.
That's Bullshit......the 17 year old son's Bullshit.......and everyone else is working for him...and paying the price and he gets away with it....Scott free and pays nothing. There are no consequences here for the 17 year old with ADHD who has an addiction and needs counseling.
For him....why even go..... or pay attention to anything like this....why even have a need to keep track of dates and times when you work or have appointments....or even worry about doing anything like this....if each time it happens....someone else pays the price......for your own Bullshit. His Bullshit and personal problem....not Dvance's, not the councelor's, not Dvance's husbands.....the 17 year old with ADHD?
And you wonder where this starts? Who's working for who here, and who's at the Top of the Hill and Top of the food chain here....that's a better question to ask"
And who's at the bottom of the hill...and takes all the Bullshit that ends up rolling down hill until it reaches the end of the Bullshit path I might add?
It's somewhat expected...to screw up and do things like this having ADHD.....what shouldn't be expected or assumed by any entitlement what so ever....is to make someone else pay for it. Some consideration or repayment within an acceptable range...is in order here I do believe? That's all that can be done....but it's also not really optional either in my mind?
J
To answer your questions--yes
Submitted by dvance on
To answer your questions--yes my husband works. He makes a good living. We are not struggling exactly, but we have a fair amount of medical debt related to the 17 year old's addiction and rehab ($8600 owed for that), the 15 year old's Asperger's (a counselor and tutors), and many tests I had prior to the surgery I had 4 weeks ago. The $980 is income taxes that I am paying down. We are not in any trouble at all, I make monthly payments, just that DH didn't even know that was the arrangement. We got slammed this year and owed about $1400 because DH took the wrong deductions. So over the course of this year I am not only paying what we owe from last year, my accountant made arrangements for me to pay NEXT YEAR'S estimated tax so we don't get hit again. I have asked DH many many times to change the deductions he takes but he has not done it and I don't have the power to do that within his company, so there you go. So each quarter of this year I pay a pretty fair amount in anticipation of next year plus last year's amount. Put it this way--I can pay all the normal living expenses that every family has--rent, groceries, phone, gas-the normal stuff. We have no car payments right now which is a HUGE help. Each month I have budgeted amounts to pay back to each thing, so it is going down, it's just we never get ahead. If there was a big emergency we would be screwed. We don't live pay check to pay check exactly, but there is not much cushion and spending money stupidly bugs me.
I am prepared and plan to make the 17 YO pay for the missed appointment, in fact I spoke to the counselor and he agrees and will take it up with the child at the next appointment. It would be nice if DH was the kind of person who would step up and say to the child "look--you blew it, now man up and pay the money. We are not paying for your carelessness." But he is not that kind of person. So I will be The Enforcer yet again. In the midst of DS losing his mind about having to pay he even said he would talk to Dad about it because he knows that DH won't make him pay. Two weeks ago DS blew his curfew and as an recent addict in recovery that is a concern. DS called DH to say he would be late (not me because he knew he would catch hell from me) and when DS got home, DH told him he would have to be home an hour earlier the next time he went out. The problem was DH was going out of town for the entire week that the consequence was in effect and so I asked him what day that punishment applied to--just one or the whole week or to a party or his girlfriend's house or what since I would be the one enforcing it and DH got all flustered and confused and told DS to forget the punishment, he had overreacted. So there you go.
What I was getting at is how little backing so many of us get from our ADHD spouse/person. That sinking feeling when you screw something up and there is no one to pick up the slack. The feeling that you can never let your guard down, never let up on your vigilance because you are the last line of defense for your family. That feeling when you are just bone weary but you can't let up because there is no one to hand things off to that you can truly rely on. I am the only person who knows the true scope of our financial situation. I have tried to discuss it with DH, even have sat down with my budget sheet and list of what we owe prioritized by amount and urgency and he is interested for perhaps a week or two and then defaults to "I trust you, you can handle it better than I can". Which is 100% true, but scary. When DH does try to take things over, his interest peters out after a period of time. Example--two years ago DH was in charge of keeping track of DS's grades. They are available online in real time. And guess what? For a month or 6 weeks, he checked them often and stayed on DS to do his work but then work and travel get in the way and it fades away. Now, is it realistic for a dad who travels to keep track of his son's grades? Probably not so why even volunteer? Another example: since DS got out of rehab, one of the conditions of him having a phone is we check it often. DH said he would do that. He does not. Now, he TELLS me he does, but when he is out of town I do and a few weeks ago I found some stuff that was a little concerning from the week before and when I asked DH if he had seen it, he had not. So he must not have been checking too well because it was all right there. When I ask how he missed it, he gets all defensive, but honestly--if you are scrolling through the kid's texts, which is pretty much the point of checking the phone, you would have seen this stuff. Another example: both my boys started school Monday. I started back Tuesday. On Sunday the oldest one worked all day (beach lifeguard) so he wasn't home all day. I was at my school literally from noon until 9pm working with 2 new hires and attending the back to school ice cream social. So DH and the 15 YO were the only ones home. Before I left I asked DH to have the child do three things: get his backpack ready for school (like pack his school supplies), change his sheets and put away his laundry. All things a 15 YO is capable of EVEN if he has Asperger's. I walked in at 9:30 and they are on the couch watching Star Trek. None of the three things were done. In 9 hours, not one of those things got done. And now DS has to be up at 6am the next day for school and his backpack isn't even ready. So I made him turn off the movie and do those three things and guess what. All three things took him about 30 minutes. And yet inside of 9 hours home, DH couldn't pull it together to have him do them. What do you say to that? How do you deal with that? I just have no words. He said he forgot. Seriously? But again-what can I possibly say back to him that doesn't make me look like a big bitch? So I am the bad guy who makes the child turn off the movie and actually DO stuff while dad is the fun dad who let him watch movies all day. I accept it, but it gets old. That is what I was getting at with that post. So many of us are so so tired from having to work around, under or over our ADHD person because they are just no help at all and it's exhausting. I am not saying anything that hasn't been said here 1000 times. My situation is no worse than anyone else's who posts here. I am just tired.
Getting help
Submitted by SuperMommy on
My heart goes out to you dvance!
You are juggling a lot and coping wonderfully. You could definitely use some help (since your spouse isn't capable of doing so consistently).
Just a suggestion...but since your spouse has shown consistently he doesn't keep track of details, it seems no amount of calendars will fix that. Do keep the calendars so he can be aware, but for the sake of your own sanity, you might adjust your expectations and no longer rely on him to do things related to appointments.
Do you have any family in the area? If so, you might enlist their help as after school monitor for things like your youngest getting home and ready for school for the next day, your oldest getting to therapy sessions and tracking that he is indeed going where he says he's going. This will take a lot of pressure off of you. I know finances are tight, but if there's any way to divert funds to hire someone to do this (if there's no family) it will make a huge difference in your life. Believe me, giving up entertainment or new clothes is so worth the peace of mind. I, too, have a rewarding and extremely busy job (and a second job at night as a college professor). I started outsourcing things years ago years ago as a workaround to get things done as the spouse of someone with ADHD who doesn't have good follow through. Husband was totally against it and insisted we can save money by having him do it. But experience proved otherwise. House is cleaned and it takes a major chore off of a super long list of things to do. Ditto with having someone pick kids up from school (ADHD spouse insisted he could---he was chronically late which cost us money in fees and almost got the kid kicked out). And yard work (spouse swore he'd get to it; never did, now it's always done). Paying for this help has meant almost never eating out at restaurants except a few times a year, only going out to the movies a few times a year, cheaper staycations instead of going away somewhere most years, doing my own hair at home, buying used clothes, etc...but so worth the trade off.
I think something like this would really help you.
As for the tax deduction issue, get the W2 online, fill it out the way you want it to work, have him sign in front of you. Give to him to take to payroll/HR first thing in the am. Call at lunch to make sure it was done and again 30 minutes before the end of the day if it wasn't handled earlier. Or you can also set up a text alert reminder for him on this. Hopefully this will rectify that situation and get you some financial relief.
I feel your pain my friend.
Submitted by SpaceyStacey197... on
I feel your pain my friend. I am in a similar situation. I too love my job, am good at it, its my dream job - and while my job can be stressful at times - its not NEARLY as bad as it could be or used to be in the past. *MY* stress comes completely from that "in limbo" feeling of wondering if I can ever trust or believe my husband will actually step up that day or not. Its a daily battle. And more often than not - he doesnt. But I am not allowed to question it or I will pay the price of his anger, irritation, impatience - what ever the flavor of the day is/ And while he isnt violent or anything like that, its the subtle things he does that hurts beyond belief and cause me so much stress.
You are handling a full family household - and it seems that you have to manage everything. And the one person who should be helping ISNT. The one you have put your trust in - isnt there for you emotionally, so you have the stress of holding all that together... and when something hits it - it pops that very delicate bubble. I am with you on how much pain that can cause....
It hurts beyond belief when they drop the ball - not so much because of money, or the logistics etc... but the complete disregard and disrespect of you as a person and the assumption and expectation that YOU are the one to cater to them, like you were his servant. Be treated like the family servant - and NON OF THE PAY of being one is stressful and painful.
I hope that I am not projecting too much of my issues onto yours - but thats how I feel. Like its expected that I hold up my end, his end and never grow tired of the burden and should always be happy when he is "civil" with me - because aiming for anything more than civil is a violation of HIM....
You nailed it--it's expected
Submitted by dvance on
You nailed it--it's expected that we hold up our end AND their end and every other end because we can and we actually DO what we say we're going to do. I often wonder what DH would be like on his own. Would he find it in himself to, oh, I don't know--pay bills on time? Because now he doesn't even open his mail. Last week an envelope came in the mail addressed to him but I thought the return address was our pediatrician so I opened it and low and behold--a $2500 bill from his counselor. From two years ago. That he told me he had worked out. And handwritten on the bill is a note that he "can begin the $300 a month payments that they worked out next month". Huh. I thought that bill was all taken care of. So I sealed up the envelope and left it on his desk. That was two weeks ago and he still has not opened it. Clearly he has spoken to them recently and made a plan to pay that amount. Where he is coming up with $300 a month I would love to know. Now, do I bring this up at the marriage counselor? Because all DH is going to hear is I opened his mail. Which is true but I swear I thought it was the pediatrician in which case it would land by me anyway. We would not even get to the fact that he told me the bill was paid and that he has not opened this piece of mail in two weeks--we would get stuck on me opening his mail. I would be the bad guy yet again.
I wonder what it feels like to just not pay attention to certain things because you have such complete trust that someone else will take care of them. I could not live like that. After 21 years of this, I do not think I could ever let go of the control enough to let someone else handle the really important stuff.
WOW
Submitted by redhead1017 on
Love this:
"I wonder what it feels like to just not pay attention to certain things because you have such complete trust that someone else will take care of them."
This is my DH in a nutshell. I stopped talking to him about finances years ago because he would just get mad. He is addicted to spending and would spend hundreds, thousands on his collections every month, thinking that the money would just magically appear.
I would LOVE to have the assurance that someone was backing me up like these ADHD folks seem to have, but I"m too busy cleaning up after him to have that luxury. Right now I'm trying to get him on disability so when I divorce him in two years he'll have something to live on - otherwise I'm going to get stuck paying alimony.
Yes. This. Exactly!
Submitted by SuperMommy on
I swear I could have written your post. What you described about unopened mail for two weeks and a bizarre relationship with how finances work happens all of the time. I used to run to fix such problems, which is enabling. Now, I just let him handle his own financial mess. And I make sure that anything jointly tied (mortgage, car note, utilities) is handled solely by me.
You might just let him solve the bill problem on his own. Let him figure out what he needs to do to come up with the $300 monthly to pay and don't budget for this in your regular household budget. That way he takes ownership of problem solving, but the repercussions don't blow back on you. And, if you haven't already (which you probably have), set up separate checking accounts--household bills, stuff for kids and yourself comes out of the one you manage; his personal stuff comes out of his own.
And I would bring this up in couples' therapy. If he tries to turn the whole thing on you (which a good therapist really should be able to redirect), just point out that just as he feels its dishonest to open his mail, you feel it is dishonest to hide a bill and payment arrangement which impacts household finances. Then propose the separate accounts and a financial responsibility plan for him. Fingers crossed for you!
Nailed it
Submitted by vabeachgal on
"I wonder what it feels like to just not pay attention to certain things because you have such complete trust that someone else will take care of them."
You described my life also. I don't understand thinking that there is a choice between doing things and not doing things. Without a viable partner, I don't have a choice. I am so burned out right now. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hand some things over right now and take a deep breath or two. I live at the beach and hardly ever make it there :(
This afternoon, there is an appointment for my son. One of us needs to be there. However, last night, I notice my husband busy on his phone, texting. Sure enough, right before bed, he "magically" has something to do this afternoon. So, I am burning time off work. Honestly, I can't trust him to take care of it. Too much information would be lost in translation and I would end up saying WTF anyway..... it's really sad, but he trusts me to take care of things efficiently and well.
I know--the idea that some
Submitted by dvance on
I know--the idea that some things aren't even on the radar is so unthinkable to most of us here because we have the opposite problem--we have to keep EVERYTHING on the radar at all times. My husband gets mail and doesn't open it for weeks. How does that work? My oldest son had his senior portraits taken in August. The proofs were emailed to me because I am the one that made the appointment. The proof email came waaaay last week and I forwarded it to DH. As of last night he hadn't looked at them yet. Said he hasn't had a chance. Um...what? I find that so strange. I was DYING to see what my son looked like! And really how long does it take to open an email? So I will choose the poses I want without any input from him. Again. So odd. I am the same with appointments--by the time I explain the back story and list all the information I need, it's just easier to go myself. Lonely, but easier.