I am a long time reader of this forum as it helped me understand the challenges I had in my on & off relationship with an ADHD man in the last 3 years.
We met & started dating immediately 3 years ago. I was very much in his hyperfocus as he constantly wanted to be around me, was devoted, loving & upfront with his feelings. Even I was too - I believed he was the perfect match for me because we had so much in common plus we had the same life goals.
Our relationship only lasted 5 months because he told me he suddenly stopped having romantic feelings for me. I was stunned & heart broken because I was so sure he was it. I cut him out. I didn't want to see him again because I didn't believe that "feelings just stopped" was a real reason. I lasted about a week before contacting him again to suggest trying to be friends. Afterall, we had so much in common & got along really well, making a cut because we didn't work as a couple seemed like a waste.
We have been friends for 2 & half years. After being friends for the first month after our break-up, we started sleeping together again & had been doing so ever since - on & off. What was worse is that we both started seeing other people several times in this 2 & half years but weren't exactly faithful to these other people because we kept coming back to each other. It has continued to be impossible for us to spend time alone together & not be intimate in some shape or form. Of course there was jealousy from both sides as well.
Half way through last year, our career paths went in different directions (same industry but I ended up having more success). This caused me to be in a new circle of people & have less time available to be with him. He became distant. I missed him & told him so. Our physical aspect of our 'friendship' continued but he didn't tell me anything anymore. It felt less & less like a friendship. It was during this time that I realised that I was still in love with him.
About a week before I planned to tell him my feelings for him, I found out he was sleeping with someone else as well as me - which was not unusual for us but it affected me more this time. I decided I couldn't go on like this anymore so 3 weeks ago I told him that I can't be friends with him anymore because I still love him & it's getting too hard for me to deal with emotionally. I thought he would be upset by me taking away my friendship but he just said "Ok, I understand". He didn't seem upset or didn't want to try to object to see if he could make things better. I was shocked by this reaction & upset too. He has never been one to show his vulnerability so I don't know whether it was a self preservation reaction or what.
Even so, currently it has been 3 weeks which is the longest time we've gone without any form of communication and interaction & it's so difficult for me because I do miss him & am wondering if I should tell him that I miss him or ride it out for a bit longer to see if he comes back to me first?
Hopelessly devo...A Thought or Two On What You Said
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm an ADHD man, so I can give you my thoughts on everything you said? And in everything you said, I think what you are experiencing is a relationship problem as much as it has to do with ADHD....both. You've got two conflicting things going on, and the end result is a lose / win.....win / lose scenario....either or? Those are you only two choices so someone always loses. If you win...he loses. If he wins....you lose. That is an impossible situation, right from the start. Personally, I can't manage that type of relationship well, and frankly, I don't know anyone who can? That's the point....it's impossible to effectively continue this way, and ever hope for your relationship to succeed. It lacks commitment, and dedication to a single goal or single agreed upon contract that is specifically stated so up front that everyone knows the rules and has agreed on them specifically? No playing both sides of the fence, or sitting on the fence on not making a definite decision, and stated so out right, to the other person? I think this lack of commitment, and an unclear or defined destination or goal...is where all this ambiguous stuff ( unknown , unseen and undetermined ) uncertainty comes from? That is no way to live in my opinion and I have never seen anyone really do this well? Are you friends? Are you Lovers, are you committed partners with one singular agreed upon goal or what? I might ask yourself....which one is it...and then ask yourself....which one do you want? You can't have it all ways at one time..which is what it sounds like you are trying to do? You need to pick one and stay with it...and not change your mind....once you get there but state it clearly...and live with it until something changes in your agreement together? It really is unfair to the person you are with....to always keep all your options open.....but not say that is what you are doing? In other words...."piss or get off the pot"...and make a decision. One decision, that is clear and unambiguous to the person you or with...so they will know what to do? That is about them...so they can know what to do? If you don't know what you are doing...then how can they know? They can't...that's the point? That would be impossible unless they could read your mind?
J
PS I'm just assuming here since there is no way to know this? But if your user name is any indication of how I read it...hopelessly devo... Like..."DEVO" the rock band? D.E.V.O...De-Evolution ( or the de-evolutionary army? ) that might be a direct reflection...of the type of relationship your in? Jut a passing thought when I saw your user name? If that's what you want, then I think that is what you need to learn to live with? If not, then change the relationship type to a win /win instead?
Thanks for your reply
Submitted by hopelessly devo... on
My full username is actually "hopelessly devoted 86" but the posts seem to cut it off at "devo" which is definitely not the type of language I use.
I have also recently found out the he has wasted no time in moving on which hurts but I guess he went for the first new shiny thing that came his way.
I always put our relationship as something special because of how much he wanted to be with me for the first few months. I really don't want to think it was just the hyperfocus stage of his ADHD especially as I know he was on medication for it at the time. He has not been on the medication at all in 2 years & stopped seeing his psych. This is when I started seeing major changes because he believes that he is old enough to be able to handle it on his own. I have never said to him that he should go back on the medication or go back to seeing his psych because I wasn't his girlfriend. I was just a friend.
Anyway, I've made the cut but I am still in the mind frame of grieving his friendship & companionship.
I Feel for You HopelesslyD
Submitted by kellyj on
I'm reading between the lines a little based on some of the things I've experienced and know about myself ( and what I do know about the meds and psychologist part ) but for the most part, I've simply been through my own relationship failures and have had enough to see some similar signs with what you said. I think, if I have learned not to do something here, is not to assume the worst...but at the same time, being practical or realistic too? The idea or concept of relevance and being pragmatic really does conflict with the subjective subject matter that is really important to you, mainly because these two concepts are opposed to one another. Practical, pragmatic reasoning in an objective way...does not jive well with subjective subject matter since those things simply are not objective at all? It like two, completely different languages that both have their own meanings and those meanings and their interpretations can be vastly different from one another? I think for me, it's easier to talk to someone about the objective parts first since I'm that stereotypical guy who always needs to fix things. LOL This is a real problem for my wife at times and where we run into trouble but for the most part, if you need to problem solve ( and yes...this is a problem ) then at least I can offer some things I've discovered that may help make this easier on you? If I may, without offering advise? Mostly insight is what I've got so bear with me for a moment?
All the things I mentioned before had to do with your relationship itself which as you said was very important to you? I'm the same way in one aspect which has a bit of my own loyalty and how I view friendships? I have some very long standing friendships that have stood the test of time over the years and there are some components in there that I think are the most important ones. The most important one at the top of the list is trust..and that can become a big topic for someone with ADHD. The why part is not that difficult to understand in that objective way or seeing this as a goal ( whether unconscious or consciously knowing this ) what it boils down to in the lowest common denominator is less to do with how much you Love or like that person, but more to do with how much it hurts...to be with them? I think for a lot of people with ADHD ( possibly ) they are simply not aware of this like I am, but I have been aware of this for so long now, I can easily see this as a huge component to any relationship I have ever been in with anyone? There seems to be....and pattern that keeps repeating and it has stages involved to see your way all the way through to the end. If you don;t make it to the end...then the relationship falls apart and dies? If it does make it to the end.....then in relation to what I'm saying....that relationship will ( and can ) continue on indefinitely, once you make it past the first one big hurtle which is the hurtle of trust and how much it hurts to get there? When the cost, outweighs the benefits then the process is derailed and discontinues any further and you never make it past that first big hurtle to the second state in the relationship? I never fully understood why this kept happening to me, until enough time had gone by to see what that was.....that made these few handful of friends rise to the top and seemingly continue on indefinitely like that? It really wasn't of my choosing or doing only in that....like you, these relationships were important to me and I wanted to pursue them? So mainly, I've been the pursuer for the most part and less the one who leaves, but when I have been the one who leaves it's always been for the same reason and that come with being hurt...one too many times and I had reached my limit? Simply put. And what that always use to boil down to was the essence of the relationship? But in that same essence....the way I would leave had a lot to do with it? Namely, I stopped pursuing...bottom line. You might say I quit...and just gave up, but I didn't actually say so directly or confront anyone on that and just let the relationship die. I don't think I'm unusual there either but I was not one that was likely to come and officially announce that I was done and yes...we're finished? All of this saying...was just by default. I had no plan or out right thinking that said these things to me? It just one of those things and the way they happened and all the whys and reasons are somewhat less important at that point but the end result was exactly what you are now so this is what brought this to mind and what I discovered looking back now at my past? It really is or was like the darkest before dawn analogy? Since I quit and basically left without leaving...I stopped feeding in, stopped communicating and stopped everything all together like the relationship was dead and gone and never existed and I was just moving on? There were certainly times when I had that...."whew, my God...I'm glad that's over...good riddance and may I never see you again. Please!!! " but those for me, are few and far between? Mostly, I had those relationships for a reason to begin with and that reason was I thoroughly enjoyed these people company and that never changed? No matter what, and through all the good and the bad and the hurt that goes along with it.....the only variable or factor that changed...was the hurt and nothing else? And for the most part, I have been by nature..and really loyal freind historically in fact, that quality has emerged or said to me as one of my shining qualities? But within that, comes what I'm seeing as "false qualities". False quantities look like the real one...but they are driven by or fueled by something else instead and that something else gets right to the heart of why they are are not long lasting or why they fall apart compared to the genuine article in this case "true loyalty". Like "true Love" or any quality like this...those quantities are "clean" with no strings attached and I have always been kind of principled in that way...to always have a feeling for them and even if I know that's something might be wrong without knowing what it is, "true qualities" in that subjective way...are the means to ground me or make me centered as a person? So you might even say, that at my center or core...contains "true loyalty" which I think is a more rare commodity which is one that is not always easy to see? If I can trust in anything...I can trust in those true qualities and loyalty is a big one...and when I see it....I trust it. And if fact, the only way I've been able to see it...is when the shit hits the fan. It doesn't emerge from people when things are good....it emerges in people when things are bad? The the world goes to Shit, and everything is Hell in a hand basket..and all hope is lost and it's time to abandon ship.....out of everyone on board ( if you can imagine a ship full of passengers ) the "last man standing rule" is where this applies? No mater where you go at a party, a convention or group of people meeting together....there will be the first arrivals, the second arrivals and the ones who arrive fashionably late. And then....and not always in the chronological time from they arrived in....people will start to leave...and that when what I see as the "wheat...being separated from the "chaff" in this weeding out process I trying to explain here? Like I said,...I never really paid any mind to this or actually knew what I was doing or why this happened and as I am saying this without any judgment...I am still speaking objectively...not subjectively and placing any value judgments on those words like ( wheat and chaff ) as just a means to explain this? And the only reason I am even explaining that has to do with the fact that my wife will get really bent out of shape and take those words personally so I always feel I have to qualify that, so others don't do the same? I never know who will be reading into that, the same things my wife does as well? Moving right along with describing what I discovered here for myself?
So if you picture a "function" with a whole bunch of people arriving and leaving at different times...but with a basic time frame or starting time...then the evening will take on it's own time table ( unless stated otherwise ) and will just play out on it's own? And what I have observed, goes something like this. And just a side note here....I use to and especially in my younger days, use to Love to go to parties. And if there wasn't a party to go to, I use to create my own. I was very good at throwing parties and I use to have them quite often or as a regular part of what I use to do so I have this background to work off of and just say what I have noticed and discovered?
Early responders and early arrivers: tend to fall into two categories.
A) Group: come early and leave early and part of that is for that very purpose. To make a showing be it obligatory, in gesture, or in support of the function. Quite often, they have another engagement planned or scheduled right afterwards so the first one is secondary..to the primary one in their agenda
B) Group: Or... ones who are there early, come to help and support the function and then one of the last to leave but with a purpose in their agenda. To serve the group and to act as support. Which means they are there to help serve the function itself and contribute to the function together as a means to do so and take on that role as part of their agenda. When the function is basically over...it's time to clean up and leave.
The second wave or second arrivers: This comprises the bulk of the people responding and they tend to arrive close to ...or ...on time.....and then when one or two or the main herd start to leave, the rest will start to grab their coats and leave within a relatively short period of time. Usually when they've made their rounds, the music stops or the entertainment value to the function is over? If there is no more beer, and music stops ( dancing what ever ), the food is gone etc etc etc....it;s like the house lights come on...and the concert is over and everyone files out of the building. That is the "main group" or the bulk of the people responding. Lets call them C ) Group here just to illustrate C) Group are practical, pragmatic, responsible and punctual and tend to go with the flow of the group and what ever the group does.
The last group..and the group I historically belong to as a participant or responder myself is the Fashionably Late Group of D) Group: In my mind, and from my standpoint going right along with my friends who I discovered and connected with in the first place ( HOW I FIGURED THIS OUT ) the objective or agenda is really not so well defined but there is a stated purpose in this group or reason behind their reasoning that does not include..any of the other reasons or agendas stated above which is the way to define it's purpose. This group...comes to party and have fun period. This is the "Hard Core" group..if you want to see it that way.
Which if you understand the purpose...then you can understand why they come "Fashionably Late". Meainng, they are in for the long hall and there is no rush in getting there. They arrive late on purpose, since they arrive once the party is in full swing so there is no wasting time or effort and experience it for any other reason. And in the "long haul" and time is not of the essence....then saving up all your energy to devote to that purpose ...serves the very reason how this group works. This is as I am seeing this, the "cosmic glue group" since what they bring with them, is the energy that binds the entire group together. You never have to ask this group if they want another drink. The answer is "Yes"...always and goes without saying. You never have to ask this group if they are tired and want to leave...if the answer is no...they would be gone already and would probably never be there in the first place...so the answer again is "yes"...never "no". "NO" doesn't exist...in the D) Group mentality. As long as there is a drop of energy left..and until the sun comes up or you pass out from exhaustion...this is the group where you will find the "Last Man Standing" or the "Hard Core" people, who ever they are? When A)Group, B)Group and even C)Group leave....that's when the real party starts...when the party is over for everyone else. There is no "time limit" or "expiration" in terms of this groups agenda....when you come to party...you come fro the long haul and usually...the sun is coming up...and the party is still going? They arrive late...to conserve their energy because all of their energy is focused on their agenda. To party till the cows come home..and even then, not until they pass out from exhaustion. The party ain't over...until the Far Lady sings and until she sing or cries Uncle...the party continues on indefinitely or until someone says...."enough". This then becomes...in a series of events or function like this.,..the "cream" that rises to the top in other words...and by defualt...and for no other reason.....birds of a feather...flock together. This weeding out process....and by means of deduction....leaves this last core group who always seem to be the same last ones standing...no matter which day or which event...they end up just the ones ( the same ones ) that are always left to the end. And in fact....this was how or the basis...for these long term relationships? If you could count on anyone, to always be there. come Hell or High Water....this is the "Hard Core Group"...that always sticks together. Each one individually....is a "last man standing" type of person. so that goes without saying...they will always be there to the end...no matter what. The agenda and what they bring to the party itself...is that energy that exists...that is the purpose to have a party in the first place. To have fun..and create a positive atmosphere, with a "no holds barred" kind of attitude that contributes to the over-all energy that everyone wants...but this as I am saying it...is the source for that energy? It's the energy that everyone is seeking as the reason to be three...but as you can see....the agendas of the first groups do not include this as one in the same. In fact, to itemize this better and to classify the other goups as far as friendships goes ( or their bonding energy if you will ) it might go something like this:
Group A: Acquaintances. Well meaning, conscientious observers, spectators and enjoy social gatherings. "Social Butterflies" who like to make "a happening" but in terms of making anything happen..they have no part to play. They fill the seats and round out the field but they definitely cannot be counted on or trusted to have any staying power since they are always looking towards the next party and always have something else to do to serve their agenda. And the fact is...they spread themselves very thin. They are really more just making a "showing" and are their to been seen more than anything? But the subjective purpose and extremely important role they play as social butterflies is...they are are the spark, or match...that lights the flame. They are the initiators or the ones who really do "make a happening" happen by the contribution that they make and without them there, are the others arrive...the atmosphere is dead...unless someone starts it?
Group B: Also there to serve a function, but that function is very clear and there purpose is well defined. Help, support and serve to the entire function. They serve as the supporting role to logistically make "a happening". So groups A and B...both..."make a happening happen"...but they are not their to serve the main purpose...as said....to party till the cows come home and let loose and have a good time. Just to point this out again? Once they have served their purpose...then their job is done and the party is over? In their "subjective minds" at least? And that full fills their personal agenda so they contribute equally as well in the positive or in a giving way? They are always ready, at a drop of hat, to keep the party rolling and do all the logistical leg work...as necessary to maintain it and keep it moving but more in the background..and less in the forefront?
Group C...is are the participants. They make for an interesting mix or people...but are more like "fair weather friends". This was the secret I learned early when I use to throw parties. I invited everyone, and no one was excluded. Anyone I could think or, meet on the street or in line at the grocery store would do. It doesn't matter, any old warm body with do since these are just the fair weather people...who will be swayed easily...to stay or leave..as long as there is food on the table, something to keep their interest and there are enough people there..so they won't get bored and leave? For a brief time...I played in a garage band and knew a few musicians and the sure fire way to keep people at a party was to have live music, and an excess of food and beer.(alcohol in this case....a keg ( or more as needed ) Those three ingredients is what is needed to get group C there, and keep them there...until any one of those things runs dry or stops. And as soon as it does....Group C is outa there!! LOL Group C...needs to be entertained..and as soon as they are not...their gone!!! LOL And as I mentioned before...as soon a Group C leaves.....Group B can full fill their destiny, clean up, help out and then their job is done and they're gone too.
Which leaves Group D...the last men/women standing. They are the cosmic glue and bring that with them. They need nothing more, than a reason to stay and that reason can be anything or everything..as long as there is a drop of beer or hours left n the day...they will be there every time to fulfilling there purpose. And the purpose...is the reason...to have the party in the first place. They are...the walking talking self fulfilling prophecy and are self contained in that way? They just have to be there...and once they aren't there any longer...then the party is over. But they are always there and you can always count of them to be there...because no matter what...they are the last people there? Until someone cries Uncle, they pass out from exhaustion, or don't have an ounce of energy left to give...they will give their all to that one stated purpose until there is nothing left to give. No matter how unrelaible they are, no mater how un-timely or not puncual they are, no matter is they contribute in any other way....they have the "magic" or the 'cosmic glue" that you always count on. They will always be there...and you can always trust in that? No matter how uncertain and unclear or not dependable for all those other agendas....they will always have you back...come Hell or Hight water...and will be the "Last Man Standing" to the end. When other say "NO" or, it's time to leave....they always say "YES". I'm ready for anything....'bring it on...let's party". When the shit hits the fan..and everyone runs or leaves....there will be one group left at the end of the day....and Group D will be the same group you see...over and over...as the ones who are left...after this weeding out process is over. What these people bring to the table is certainty, trust, and stability to the entire function. Not matter which day...not matter which venue, no matter what happens along the way....the :"last man standing rule" still applies..and Group D is the group who will always be standing there at the end. And the consistent nature of Group D means....it will be the same people each time no matter what? The only thing that remains the same and never changes is Group D and that's the Group..you can always count on?
So for me, this is how I discovered and found my long term and long lasting freinds. I did not seek them..and they did not seek me. We just kept finding ourselves at the same place and the same time together...and it was always the same group each time? The "false" agenda...in the same way that might look the same...is has insecurity involved? Meaning, there were a few "false flaggers" in there, but they were their out of their own insecurity thinking ...if I leave ...then this won't happen again...or if I leave...they won"t like me? That is really easy to determine since they are not in it for the long haul. They may be the last man standing on one event...but when something better comes along to serve their agenda of weakness and insecurity...they will to with it and you won't see them again...at the next function you go to. They are "temps"...or .."posers" if you will...and are just " Insecure Group C"...and "fair weather friends". They have no "cosmic glue" of their own and are still feeding off of Group D...but will only contribute up to a certain point. They are not..."Can do"....but more Can / Don't...and have an ulterior motive or agenda involved. They are not "clean" in other words...even if they just hang on or tag along just to go for a ride...but are not there for the "long haul" and are not the "Hard Core " members of Group D. The missing component there is the loyalty to the group. The cardinal rule or motto of group D that defines them is...."Last Man Standing"...which is the by product....not the goal.....and that;s that subjective loyalty that I look for...in long term friendships. That is the quality that I am after...to determine whether I can Trust.....or Not Trust....anyone. Once that code of honor is broken....and the Last Man Standing Rule is violated....it's a hard road for that person to climb back up that ladder...rung by rung....to earn that Trust back and earn their stripes again? Once they have fallen....it takes a lot of "earning" on their part...to regain their status....and return Home again. Home is where the heart is. And heart is defined in Group D. To become a member of the more elite or select group...you've got to have the right stuff to get there. You pass the test...by being the Last Man Standing. Not matter what happens along the way......you past the test...by simply being there in the end.
So as far as my closest, long term and long standing friends. They each one proved themselves to me..and became members of that select group of trust and loyalty...which as I saying this...the foundation for our friendship. Once you make it all the way to then end and join the "hard core" group....as long as you don't quit, violate the cardinal rule, or somehow dies or disappear off the face of the earth.....you've earned you stripes, paid your due...and now you've earned my friendship and you are my friend for life. You don't have to keep passing the same test of trust....ones you earned it...and proved that you will always be there no matter what....until the end of time. As far as friendships goes....that's how I determine if you are my friend or not?
A True friend....not one of the other versions. The other versions...all serve a purpose....but only purpose I serve and the equability that I need in order to feel safe and have my full trust....then Group D is the test of friendship and that you can always count on...no matter what?
So I guess what I'm saying here and reason to put this all out there, is to just show you one mans version of the different levels of friendships...and the purposes that they serve? I can and have and will always have friends in all of these categories...but the one at the top...and the only one where I will ever fully trust and give ( my all too ) are the people who belong in group D. Until they pass the test, and until they've earned their stripes....then GroupD is reserved for a select few. and that is not given freely...that Group...has to earn it and only time will tell if they do...since there is only one way to determine that? Through actions ...over time. Once a person has climbed that ladder and made it to the top....then they will be my friend forever...unless they violate the Cardinal Rule of Last Man Standing.....and "bugger out" early...which is all up to them? And if their agendas....clash with mine....then that's an easy way to tell isnt' it? They won't be there at the end....and something got in the way before that? I don't even need to which group, what agenda or why to determine that? Once they past the test....then they get what they have earned. Until that time...or until they violate the Cardinal Rule of "Last Man Standing Rule".where you come to party....and nothing else and the party ain't over, until someone yells Uncle or until you got nothing left to give. Until I see that first, after all is said and done....I have a wait and see attitude...until they past the test. All in....or All out....there is no "in-between" when is comes to Group D. Full Trust...and Full giving to the last drop...only comes AFTER....they have earned their stripes with me and that comes with earning.....no one gets before they give and the test will yield the results at the end of the day?
Anyway, I thought I would share my personal perspective with you to use as you can or as you see fit, to possibly apply to your own situation and use as some insight into relationship and help tell you ( or possibly ) place yourself and your boyfriend...into this mix of things just as a guide?
J