I've decided I am "done" with my partner. I've been trying, but he isn't taking his meds and he isn't communicating anymore. He is going to therapy, but I don't know what it is that he is working on. He started seeing a psychologist over stress at his job. The stress is partly because he decided to say something impulsive at work which got him into trouble. Except now, they are holding him accountable more regularly, and as a result, he is reacting to it and doing what he can to shift the blame back to them. I do know they talk about personal things, but I'm not sure how much. I did express excitement and support when he brought home information on DBT though. It's been a few years now, and I'm burnt out. I can't do it anymore. Our finances are a mess, my mental health has tanked and I keep getting pushed into a parent role. Even when I find ways to shift out of that role, it feels like he keeps trying to put me back into that role. Initially, I was able to bring up how his actions were impacting the entire household and he would listen and interact with me and we would work together collaboratively to fix things. But now, he has withdrawn to the point he lives on his computer or phone or watching TV. And if he's not doing that, he's out with friends and I am left at home with our kids.
A while back, I told him I noticed that he was no longer taking his meds. I wanted to see why this was the case and maybe gain some insight into things but he refused to talk about it. He got very defensive and angry when I pointed out that before I was even aware that he wasn't taking the medication, I had a suspicion because I noticed his mood change and he became a lot more abrupt and unhappy. He tried to make it into a fight (I think) and brought up how there were more factors at play in that. Probably meaning me.. I acknowledged that might be the case, but refused to take the bait. I just pointed out that I didn't think stopping antidepressants along with his ADHD meds cold turkey was wise and I wasn't going to enable that. I let him know I did not approve but obviously can't force him to take them. I also let him know that I was aware that our dynamic is currently strained and that probably doesn't help, but that taking medication isn't helping either of us.
The complete lack of response and the repeated attempts at making things out to be my fault, and even now, his friends reaching out to me when he forgets to reply to them, has been the last straw for me. I told him from the start that I do not need a partner, but I want someone that I can share my life with. And this isn't it. This is me now barely having time for myself and starting to see the negative impact it is having on my health.
What really hurts though is when I was expressing frustration to a good friend of mine. All of us have ADHD just for reference. I was trying to ask my friend for resources I may need to access upon becoming a single parent. And when she asked why, I told her a lot of things that I have kept to myself. I expressed feeling "stuck" and unable to talk to anyone because I don't like airing my personal issues out to others and I don't have any friends or family that live nearby as it is. I mentioned how I knew he'd been talking to a friend about how unhappy he is and how he's contemplating leaving because he thinks I'm being unreasonable and making all of these demands of him. I'm not, I've merely been trying to get the bare minimum from him. And she then proceeded to tell me quite bluntly that she doesn't think that I'm a good partner. That she watched us interact at an event together and that she would not want to be in a relationship with me based on how I was treating him. I was apparently using a very rude tone and acting unreasonably.
I don't see it that way. I was actually shocked by the comment. I know she yelled at me when I politely pointed out thathat he had interrupted her and told me "we all have ADHD, we're going to interrupt each other constantly, it's normal, don't do that". Which I let go at the time. But that's something we have both been working on with one another. My partner and I talk excessively and have a bad habit of interrupting one another and not noticing and then the interrupted party gets upset when they finally get a chance to talk much later. So we do point it out. I'm never rude about it, I find polite and mindful ways to do it. He always apologizes and thanks me for pointing it out. Just as he points it out when I do it. Anyway, I expressed surprise at being told that I was horrible to him the whole weekend and I did point out that there were things that had happened before she and her husband had arrived that had caused frustration on my end and where I could potentially see that my tone may have not been the best. And pretty much got told "he has ADHD and so he does things a certain way due to those traits. That's a horrible reason for ruining a weekend where he chose to spend time with you"
And at this point I just changed the subject. I felt absolutely hurt and also very annoyed. I also have ADHD!! I also have very rigid thought patterns sometimes. I find it very easy to "dig in" when arguing and just argue for the sake of arguing and a lot of the time, I struggle with getting up the motivation to do day to day tasks. Yet, I have found ways over the years to improve this or to learn how to go with the flow when my rigid thought patterns are causing issues. It is by no means easy. It's a day to day struggle for me. My partner flat out ignored me when we went camping until my friends arrived. He was on his phone most of the time and expressed very little desire in coming and joining us at the lake or anything else. Before my friends got there, he got mad because the tent he wanted to set up would not work. When I asked if we could just use the tent I had insisted we bring, he then revealed to me that he wasn't sure that he had packed it. It turned out he had, but at this point, he opted to just sit and scroll on his phone. I tried asking questions to see if there was a solution to make the tent that he had brought work. There wasn't but he got annoyed when I was asking questions to figure out why it wouldn't. When I tried talking to him or letting him know I was sorry that the one tent would not work, I just got ignored and snapped at. When my friend and her husband arrived and realized they had forgotten a few things he quickly jumped up and volunteered to take her husband to get said items. It felt like any time there was an opportunity to leave, he did. I was left chasing our kids around and he was either on his phone or else he was interrupting me and talking about himself at the event. I felt very ignored and as if we had come to this event separately. So I am aware that there were a few times when I felt burnt out, that I would tell him that he was going and taking a kid to the bathroom, or that he was going to help with something. Instead of asking and getting ignored. Instead of nagging. It was more "our daughter needs to use the bathroom, I'm going to send her with you since I am in the middle of washing the dishes"
But this has gotten me to thinking. At what point are certain things the ADHD and when is it enabling someone to continue behaving in a problematic manner? I know that sometimes I can not for the life of me manage to make food due to executive dysfunction. And in those scenarios, I am also aware that while I might be fine with not eating, that I need to feed my kids. So I either see if my partner is able to cook, or if I really can't seem to force myself to prepare food, I look for leftovers or "quick" meals that I wasn't originally planning on making but that are easy enough to make. And when all else fails, I can order take out. I don't always have issues with preparing food. I've learned that if I feel more motivated than usual, then I make extra meals that i can store for the days where I get overwhelmed by the whole process.
I set timers, I have reminders in my phone for things, and I find ways to work with my ADHD to try make my life better.
If I was to just decide I was never preparing food again because of my struggles and my partner took that out fully and didn't expect me to ever lift a finger when it comes to that, I would view that as enabling. I would see it as being problematic because it is letting me know that it is ok to not have to even attempt to try get over the mental blocks I sometimes experience when it comes to making food. I wouldn't have to challenge myself to grow at all and I would be relying on someone else to solve a problem for me. I'd see it a bit differently if we had an arrangement where he did the cooking and I took over let's say doing the dishes or some other item that he struggles with that I can do. Because then we are both contributing towards things and helping one another. But if I am opting to just sit around doing nothing and expect him to take care of all the aspects of cooking, I feel that would be problematic.
Sorry this is so long, I just really needed to get this out and vent. I honestly thought my friend would be a bit more empathetic towards me. Instead, it feels like she is using the "we have ADHD" thing as an excuse for behavior that can sometimes be hurtful to others. My partner has ADHD, I'm not expecting perfection from him. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to at least try to work within his limitations to be a bit more of an attentive partner. Him not taking his medications and just sitting glued to a screen for the majority of the day or else disappearing off to hang out with friends while the pile of projects we have at home need fixing keep on piling up, is problematic. When his issues that he keeps leaving start spilling over and impacting everyone else in the house, it's an issue.
At what point do we look at something and say "ok, this is the ADHD, I shouldn't be getting so upset over this" and at what point is that just an excuse and we become enablers to problematic behaviors?
"That's Just ADHD" vs. Enabling
Submitted by BeyondConfused on 09/21/2024.
Sorry Beyond Confused
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I'm so sorry that your friend blamed you when you made yourself vulnerable by telling about your strained marriage. I think it was unnecessary. She could have kept that observation to herself at least.
The situation with your turned away spouse, lost on his devices, is very relatable to me. I also couldn't make the marriage function when it'd gone that far.
As for your last question, isn't it natural to be upset about dysfunctional behavior even when you know it's cause? ADHD is an explanation, but no comfort if you suffer it's effects.
I feel for you.
Thank you. Yeah, it really
Submitted by BeyondConfused on
Thank you. Yeah, it really annoyed and hurt me. And it made me feel like I have no one to talk to. I feel like my friend exhibits behaviors that might end up causing resentment from her husband down the line. But I don't bring it up because they seem happy, and it's not my business. She's not being rude to him or acting abusive, she just lets messes pile up and expects him to clean up her messes and do all the cooking. But for all I know, that dynamic might work if they've discussed it before.
I'm at the point where I'm honestly working on just getting through getting to couples counseling. I don't think it's going to help much since I have started to disconnect. Which takes a lot for me to do. He would have to make drastic changes and I just don't see it happening. I think the biggest thing for me is a few times I've tried commenting on the distance and get told "I'm sorry you feel that way". So he's not denying it or admitting it, he's not even acknowledging his role in how I feel. And that bothers me. I don't feel any urge to keep trying which let's me know things have really broken down since I tried to repair a previous marriage for 3 years before admitting defeat. And with that one, my ex refused therapy, refused to put any effort in. And yet I tried.
This time around, I don't have the patience or capacity for that. I just want to have my house clean again and have my peace and quiet again and try to repair my health (lose a ton of weight) and get out of debt. Life will be harder as I'm a parent, but I'll have my peace back at least.
I got accused of mishandling when he had an anxiety attack earlier this year. He felt he couldn't verbalize what he wanted and so I tried to help in a way that works for me. He got upset later and explained how he TRIED and I ignored his cues because they didn't register to me. I apologized and felt bad. But I didn't feel raking me over the coals for it was necessary. It was an honest mistake and I gave a genuine apology and tried to collaborate on how to work on this going forward. I also got mad when he told me it was my fault that all this clarity he was apparently starting to gain , disappeared and he tried blaming me for that.
I guess my last bit, is that I feel sometimes ADHD is used as a crutch for dysfunctional things. Like I know I struggle with things, so I try to acknowledge and communicate those things and work with it.
To refuse meds and trying to even do the bare minimim and say "that's just how I am" to me is still ADHD. But it also becomes someone that isn't interested in learning to manage their ADHD and for me to be accepting of that, I feel would be enabling them to continue being dysfunctional with no regard to how it impacts others. Vs like.. I communicate when I know my struggles are going to impact others and we discuss how to work through that together. I also feel that as a parent, I've had to learn to address and manage my ADHD so that it doesn't negatively impact my children. Normally I view ADHD as a bit of a superpower. But there are downsides to it that I am well aware of as well.
That’s hard
Submitted by Catterfly on
Hi Beyond Confused,
I've been where you are, even up to the feedback from friends. It's so difficult and I'm so sorry you're in it.
But to answer your question, I don't think the root cause (ADHD vs something else) matters as much as a few key considerations:
- Have you told him how you feel, and what he could do to help to build up the relationship?
- Can you forgive the behaviours and continue to be your best self, or are they wearing you down? If wearing you down, are you able to change your mindset so they less have less effect on you?
A mindset shift is hard, though, if this has become a trust issue. It sounds to me like he's fundamentally broken your trust in him as a partner. That's very difficult to get back without some evidence that he's trying to change.
I Don't Think So
Submitted by BeyondConfused on
I feel my trust has been broken too much.
I've told him how I feel, I have more than once communicated ideas to help build the relationship. It goes through the typical cycle of things work for a bit and then they don't. He read the book as well and was excited to implement ideas and suggestions. Until it came time to do so. The last time I tried to express how I felt, I just got told "I'm sorry you feel that way" and he shut right down. I can't work with that, that ends up being me doing all the talking and work. Which I have been doing for years now.
I can't forgive the behaviors anymore. I feel like I have made myself smaller one too many times. My last straw was him losing it on my oldest child this weekend. He was yelling and swearing at him over the stupidest thing and my son ran up to his room and was sobbing his heart out. My son didn't even want me near him to console him at that point. And then my partner was in a foul mood around everyone and just swearing and complaining and leaving everyone else fundamentally uncomfortable around him the whole time. Until his mood shifted some time later and he acted like the bad mood had never happened and expected everyone else to forget it and act like things were fine. This is not ok, and this is where I think any feelings that I still had left for him, completely disappeared.
I have trouble regulating emotions, I have definitely snapped at people before when overwhelmed. ..And then I apologize after the fact. I figure out what led to it, and I work on trying to find ways to minimize the possibility of having this occur. And I discuss it with the people it impacts.
To not apologize, to get defensive, and to act like it didn't happen, hurts. To lie to me about not taking medication and to just quit cold turkey, concerns me. He quit antidepressants cold turkey at the same time. That can be very dangerous and lead to some serious adverse behavior. I feel like I had been starting to shift my mindset, and was letting go of certain things. Things that have happened in the past, I've been able to look at as "that was before we realized how much this was impacting us, and now we are aware and can move forward and handle things differently, I don't need to hold onto the hurt and anger from this". Except we are not moving forward. And I feel like he keeps trying to go back to the way things were when things first started to break down. He withdraws more, gets more defensive, and now just spends more time out of the house with his friends and comes home and plays video games online with the exact same friends he just saw and talks to them the whole time. So he's strengthening an emotional connection with his friends and escaping his problems here. And when I try to suggest time together or plan things together, he seems to have zero interest.
So, I'm just working on getting a job, and I am done. I am sad, but I'm also somewhat relieved that I will eventually get my space back and won't have to deal with all of his messes everywhere.
Good decision
Submitted by Catterfly on
It sounds like you're close to where I was when I left my husband in July. For about two years, I would wake up to him yelling at the kids. Then at night, after I'd spent an hour putting them to bed, reading stories etc (even though they were tween/teens), he would march back upstairs at 11:00 pm and yell at them more. Sometimes he would haul them out of bed to clean the kitchen - his chore!
In January I gave him an ultimatum: no more yelling at the kids, ever, or you must go on antidepressants. And if that doesn't work, we leave. He agreed, but then of course wouldn't take the meds. And started yelling again. This time it was clearly abuse, but directed at me only. He never yelled again at the kids. I mistakenly thought I needed to ignore it and try to make it go away (mediate, walk away, whatever) so that I could keep the kids in their home and "stability".
In May our 15 yo, an outwardly fun, bubbly, kind and extroverted young woman that I adore, made a very severe suicide attempt. I've been on employment insurance and dedicating my time to her and her sister ever since, and can tell you she's much better now.
But I absolutely loathe myself for thinking that I could somehow help him to improve his behaviour (mediation, kindness, medication, whatever) and not understanding the depth of the impact to the kids. I should have bailed years ago but believed him when he said his behaviour was because of me making him mad. And he never hit us, so I didn't recognize that it was abuse until it escalated in January of this year.
I've now moved my girls to my mother's wonderful, nurturing environment, and they hear no adults yelling any more. They're slowly starting to heal. I even see signs of them thriving now.
So yes, the impact to the kids is so much worse than we can realize. I'm so glad that you've realized this before things got as bad as they did for us - your kids will thank you (mine have!!)
Many of us still rely on this forum to process and heal, even after making a decision to leave. We're here for you, and I'm sending my very best wishes for now.
Oh my goodness!! My heart
Submitted by BeyondConfused on
Oh my goodness!! My heart broke reading this. But I am so happy to hear that your daughter is doing better now. I can't even imagine how awful and devastating that must have felt.
I think that's the biggest thing right now. The way he has been around the kids has always been problematic. But I was able to make excuses for it most of the time. Or I kept thinking he would change and behave differently around them. We would go through phases where things would be better. And where with time, he was still yelling, but he seemed to have calmed himself some and was more mindful with his approach towards the kids. When we first got together, I had problems with regulating my emotions. There were times I'd yell at the kids I had before meeting my current partner. I'd feel horrible. And some of those times, he would intervene and take over. So I'd go to calm myself down and then feel even worse because I could hear him yelling at them. But over time, I learned how to manage my emotions better. And then we had our kids, and I began noticing, that he wasn't very attentive. If I asked for help at bedtime, he'd sit in their room with them and watch videos on his phone. With the volume on. So now you have a child interested in whatever he is watching. If that's all he was going to do, I wouldn't have asked for help to start.
I did try breaking up with him once over his temper towards the kids. But then things seemed to improve for a few years so I thought this was all behind us. And then COVID happened and that definitely impacted his mental health. The job that he had was one where he was talking to people in person daily. This job then disappeared and they were trying to figure out what new role to put him in. Once we got to a point where he could return to the office for work, he impulsively made some stupid comment in an online work chat that he got in trouble for. I know that he is in jeopardy of losing his job now. They are trying to find a way to fire him. He started noticing the increased scrutiny and began pushing back. He has become so fixated on this, it's an obsession. His patience has disappeared. His temper is back, and I have felt trapped and stuck. I started realizing I was actively making excuses for him to the kids and started making myself approach some hard truths that I'd been dancing around for the past few years. I also found myself feeling overwhelmed because I was trying to de-escalate conflicts between the kids before my partner got involved. And so then I'd end up yelling at them too or saying things that I knew weren't ok. And it was out of fear. I didn't want my partner to come up and deal with them, so I would hit this anxiety and panic reaction. I could tell that he was unwell mentally. I suggested he go see a therapist for workplace stress. He got very defensive and upset. But later, he needed an official ADHD diagnosis to give to his job so that he could get some sort of workload accommodation. He started ADHD medication and antidepressants and found a therapist to work with that would write a letter to his employer outlining his ADHD. It was an adjustment period. He went from being a zombie on one of the medications to becoming almost manic on another one. Eventually, they seemed to find the right combination and he was in a much better place. He just kept complaining about how tired the antidepressants were making him and he doesn't feel like his current medication works. It does, I notice a difference, but I think it takes away some of the ADHD energy and that upsets him. I suggested talking to his doctor about it. But unbeknownst to me, he decided to stop taking his medication. The temper came back along with the hyperfixation on work. We had a massive fight at the beginning of this year where he left the house with our only vehicle for over 48 hours and turned off his phone. We were supposed to get married in 2 weeks. I called everyone and canceled our wedding. I even called the police after receiving a call from his employer looking for him on the second day. I was worried for his mental health. After the fight, we lived apart for about two or three months. I told him that if he wanted this to work, he needed to seek therapy, get medicated, and I wanted couples counseling. But I felt that he should be the one to arrange that since he was the one that had broken my trust. He went to the doctor and once again went back onto his medications and started talking to hia therapist about issues that weren't related to work. She has started him on DBT. It seemed like we were making progress. But then once he moved back in, things were falling back into a familiar pattern. I mentioned that I had noticed that he seemed a bit more stressed out or on edge and asked if something was going on. He wouldn't answer me. Summertime hit, and he was gone for the majority of this. His mood seemed to improve during this time. Probably, because he was gone every weekend and was escaping the reality of real life for a while. The kids weren't being yelled at because he wasn't there. He'd come back usually in a great mood. I was stressed out though because we have all these little projects that have been piling up over the years that he has insisted that he will take care of. And he wasn't. He'd come home from a camping event and tell me that he had this urgent project that he had to finish before the next weekend as it related to the next event.
When summer ended, I finally sent him a message asking if we could try to find a way to compromise so that I would get to see him a bit more and so that some of our projects were getting done as well since it felt like his events were taking priority over everything else. I had suggestions for ways to do this and asked his thoughts. He told me he didn't know. He did agree that twice a week, we would do something together. He started acting withdrawn. When I asked about it and pointed out that I noticed it, I got told "I'm sorry you feel that way". This is when I realized that he was mentally checking out. This is also when I happened to notice how full one of his pill bottles was one day. I checked the date on the bottle and realized that he had once again stopped taking his medication. I didn't confront him right away as I was too upset. But when I did, he couldn't tell me why he stopped taking them. And when I pointed out that this choice impacted everyone in the house and that I refused to enable this, he just stared at me and shrugged. He did not seem to get it or to care. At this point, I started working towards getting my workplace credentials reinstated so that I could start working again. I realize he isn't going to change and that I can't keep doing this. I feel horrible for my kids, I have been with this man for 7 years. I have gotten to a point where I don't make excuses for him anymore. I tell them that yes, how he is acting is not ok and that I am going to take care of it. I think my daughter has figured out what I mean by that. She is pretty bright.
I'm now just working even harder to get my credentials in place. The process has been taking a lot longer than I had anticipated. And I've also reached out to domestic abuse resources. I don't know how I'm approaching that last bit. Once I have a job I am asking him to leave. That's the only thing I know for sure. I genuinely think that if I show him the door, he will just leave. He has his workplace drama to fixate on, so I don't think he'd push back on anything. And if I told him I wanted to split custody of our children equally, I think he'd be all over it to start. Until he had to deal with them for a week solo and something he wanted to do came up and he couldn't do it. I think eventually he would just slowly default into rarely seeing them. I obviously can't know that for sure, and I'm not sure how comfortable I even feel with having him around them alone as it is.
I will probably reach out to the domestic abuse line and potentially family services and ask for advice. Contacting family services scares me. I'm worried that I will lose custody of my children from my previous marriage for exposing them to this guy. Or that my ex-husband will get wind of things and somehow get involved and push to have the kids he shares with me to live with him 100% of the time. But honestly, at the end of the day, I think I just have to suck it up and make the phone call and find out what happens next. My partner is going to be gone for the next few days. I will have plenty of time to make phone calls without worrying about him being around to overhear.
The scariest part is that I have no support out here. My ex-husband moved me to a city away from all my family and friends. I've made some connections but a lot of my new friends are also friends with my current partner so I don't feel I can talk to them. My best friend just had a baby, so I don't like involving her either.
Sorry for the huge ramble here. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed.
On the plus side, one of the moms I started talking to when I go to pick up my son from school, is in a very similar situation. She has an ADHD husband. She is looking for a job and they are breaking up. The only real difference is that her husband knows they are breaking up. I am playing nice so that my partner doesn't just up and leave me high and dry before I get a job. We exchanged numbers. It felt so great to meet someone in person that is going through a similar thing. I mean, obviously I wish that neither of us was going through this, but having someone that I feel "gets" it that I can talk to, is a tremendous help. It was so validating to hear her express some very similar frustrations.
I really appreciate this group and I really appreciate you sharing this with me Catterfly. I am glad to hear your daughters are in a much better place. Reading this helped remind me that I need to stick to my resolve and I need to get a job sooner than later. I might start applying even for some temporary work to get by until I can land something full time hopefully in my chosen career field.
Understandable
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Your description of your current situation is much alike mine last year. You get to a point where trust has run out. Every interaction from there is just disfigurement. You can't be who you want to be, or act in a pleasant or neutral way, or cope with any more of your partner's behavior.
I was told by close friends that I was disappointing them by always complaining of everybody else. I was also told my needs were greedy - I should be able to give out generously to others expecting nothing in return.
These people have generally been very lucky in their life and relationships. But even if they have no idea what they're asking, it still hurts. A little more hurt.
When we are thoroughly depleted and can no longer choose how we react or behave, there is only one way to go. Out. You are on your way and I congratulate you on an excellent decision.
Thank You
Submitted by BeyondConfused on
That's just it. The trust is gone. I've been married and divorced already. I spent years trying to work on that marriage and ended up just becoming a shell of myself. And I compromised my moral compass so many times to try and make it work. I had promised myself that if I ever ended up in another scenario where a relationship broke down, that I would do all that I could to try and repair a marriage, but that I would know when it was time to walk away. I'm not the person I want to be right now. I'm struggling even trying to be nice around my partner while I work on getting my life back in order. Every little thing just hurts more or is more amplified due to the sheer amount of times I've had to deal with it. And knowing that I want out, it makes it harder to let things go because it feels like repeated slaps in the face.
Being told your needs are greedy must have been so frustrating! I could argue that I feel my partner's needs are greedy, or short-sighted at least when it feels like all they do is take and take. You can only give so much. Once your cup is empty, you need to replenish it. I don't think my partner does it purposely, but it does get tiring after a while. At one point, he was able to realize why I had called him selfish during a fight and I got an apology. And I could tell that he had actually reflected on it. I got told that if he had been me, he doesn't think he would have been able to put up with how he's treated me. Yet after canceling all these events he had scheduled for himself in order to maintain a better home life balance, he then replaced all of them with other events. Some of them placed him out of the house longer than the previous events. When I tried to point it out, it didn't go over well. I had to advocate to get one weekend a month where I get to do whatever I want without having to worry about kids. My partner disappears almost every weekend or stays on his computer the majority of every night. he gets hours of downtime every day. I get maybe 15 minutes here and there. it is incredibly unbalanced, but if I try to bring it up, I'm being unbearable and demanding. And what kills me, is that I started approaching it differently. I suggested we use some of the charts and tools in Melissa's book. And even that gets met with defensiveness and resistance. And nothing changes. The monthly weekend that I advocated for and that he agreed that I should have? Even then, he makes plans during those times and then asks if I'd be willing to shift my weekend to a different week or something. I did that I think once or twice but pointed out that this wasn't going to become a regular thing, the weekends I shifted to at the time actually worked out better for me so that's the only reason I did it. And now, I just tell him that he will have to figure something out on his own.
End of the day, I am done. I've been effectively drained and it's time to get my old self back. I've learned some new tools and gained some interesting insights, but I can't keep doing this.
My family member made me laugh when I told them I was also leaving because I don't want to model problematic relationship dynamics to my children. And I got told "but you were surrounded by healthy relationships! you were raised by two people that had a healthy dynamic but you still ended up with your ex husband" and.. she's completely missing that I was raised by someone married to a gambling addict. I remember being in the car when we'd drive to the casino so she could drag him home. I remember overhearing arguments over "how much money did you lose this time?" And she stayed and tolerated it the whole time. So no, I didn't have a healthy relationship modeled to me. I think they loved each other deeply, but I think that the one of them decided to just accept that she was married to an addict and just turned a blind eye to it. And maybe that's why when my partner started exhibiting a problematic temper, I just made excuses for it and ignored it. Who knows. But either way, I've gotten to the point where I need to walk away for my own sanity.
And if I meet someone new one day, I will have new tools in my toolbox and communication techniques.
I called a family member today after going on a drive to calm down when something my partner did irritated me. And I know her advice was well meant, but it wasn't helpful for this. She pointed out that I have to learn to pick my battles, or learn to just let things go. And yes, I do. And in the beginning of the relationship, I was very hyper-vigilant due to being in something abusive prior. And as time went on and I relaxed some, I let a lot of things go. But when the hurtful things keep happening and keep repeating, you get sick of it. When your partner won't even talk to you, it becomes hard. And the more things I let go, the more it felt like my partner would continue on doing said things and so they weren't getting addressed, they were just happening more and more.
We had an instance recently where we traveled to see a friend going through a hard time. The two of them have a past history. And during the visit, she said some things that weren't appropriate and rubbed me the wrong way. I was uncomfortable and asked if he could take me to his mom's house. And then he proceeded to drive back to see the friend and stayed until about midnight or so. I was hurt and frustrated. He expected me to yell at him over it. I didn't. I let it go, it wasn't worth it. I know he just got talking to other people there and lost track of time.
I can't let go when I'm consistently left doing the
"I Don't See it that way...."
Submitted by J on
Hi Beyond Confused.
I'm really trying my best to communicate better in an effort to stay out issues between my SO and I. We're all here to help each other so if you can trust in what I'm about to say, then I'm hoping I can say something that your ADHD friends didn't say very well. Having said that, I believe they saw something you weren't seeing in your interaction with them and between your spouse, but it hurt your feelings and your focus was not on what they were trying to tell you. I immediately recognizes something in what you said that I find my SO doing. This will also help me learn to communicate this kind of things better with her, without making her feel criticized. Even when my intention is not to criticize her and talk openly about issues we're having...she is more closed in her communication style and is not always forth coming with her feelings about things. Our two styles definitely butt heads so I have to be very careful how I word things so she feels safe to open up with me. Safe= not feel criticized. She has RSD but so do I. In fact, mine is probably worse than hers even after we are both medicated with stimulant and anti-anxiety meds for her. Key word here for her is anxiety not so much ADHD. I too suffer from the same at times.
What I see her doing are repetitive patterns. The most obvious and easy for anyone to see is she is her backseat driving. She cannot stop it..it just comes out every time I drive. And when I say every time....I literally mean every single time. She can't stop and yes, it gets really annoying.
But here's what I see that might be similar. When we're alone....her back seat driving is only annoying. But if other people were in the car with us...it would be embarrassing. I mean, I would feel embarrassed and humiliated in front of other people because I really don't need anyone giving me unsolicited advise on how to drive. Despite having ADHD, I'm a very good and safe driver. I haven't had an accident in decades and that was actually backing up into a parked car that was lower than my truck. Other than that, I haven't been in a real fender bender since I was a teenager when someone rear ended me. Only to say, I'm an experienced driver with a good record and I don't need "help" to drive.
But when she back seat drives...the way she talks to me is very disrespectful sounding. She starts to give orders with a great sense of urgency....as if, we're about to crash at all times. One time in fact, in a more panicked moment, she yelled out to " go! "...right in front of an oncoming car. If I had gone when she said...we would have been hit.
This is not about dopamine, or need for stimulation...this is about control...or feelings of "lack of" control, and a need to relieve her anxiety when she's not at the wheel. In other words, this is not because of ADHD directly...it's because she has ( admitted ) control issues and a need to feel like she's in control. And just because she admits it and recognizes she has these issues...doesn't mean she stops back seat driving every time I'm in control of the wheel.
This is about anxiety and repetitive patterns in an effort to relieve anxiety in the moment. It doesn't really fix the problem...but she does get a sense of relief, but only while she's doing it.
I understand this, because I have a tendency to default to my OCD patterns too. I could be wrong, but this is why I would do something like this.
J
I See Your Perspective
Submitted by BeyondConfused on
I see what you are saying. That makes a lot of sense to me. I need some time to think about this and process it. I'm going to try and explain things a bit better. Because maybe I didn't. Or maybe I did, and I will see that once my brain has processed this fully. I realize you are talking about patterns, this is a little long, but I will get to the patterns part at the end. So if you can bear with me, great. Some of this I think I just need to type to get it out of my brain and help me understand what I'm thinking and feeling a bit better.
I listened when my friend told me I hadn't been nice to him at our camping thing. I was honestly shocked. I have friends that make passive- agressive statements to their partners when friends are around, and it bothers the hell out of me. I stopped hanging around one of the couples we know because I can not stand how his wife speaks to him around others. I've watched friends fight with their partner when we are around and it's awkward. I do my best when upset, to leave that for when it is just the two of us alone. And I try to use the tools I was taught by a marriage counselor from my previous marriage. That doesn't mean I'm always successful, but I try my best. Sometimes my wording is problematic. As time has gone on and I feel like I am talking to a brick wall, I know that I tend to struggle to use a calm approach versus an anxious one. And at this point, my resentment probably has built up and it's harder to speak calmly.
I can potentially see how when I pointed out that he had interrupted her, that it could have been interpreted as rude. I did not personally think it bothered him as I asked him about it later. It was one of those things where I genuinely wanted to hear what my friend had to say. She got interrupted, and yes we do this when a thought impulsively jumps into our brains and we are excited to share it. But I knew if she didn't get to share it, it would be gone and I wanted to hear it. He has always told people "if I talk too much, if I interrupt, or if I miss a cue that you are trying to talk, PLEASE TELL ME because I don't notice and I won't get upset at being told this, I sometimes can't stop myself or I don't realize others are trying to talk". So this one time, I was all "hey hun.. I don't think she was finished talking there, I wanted to hear what she had to say" and my friend just LOST it on me in front of everyone. Which yes, definitely triggered my RSD. I felt like a child being chastised. She was very snappy most of the trip now that I think back on it. I didn't say a word. I felt like crying but didn't. I think I got up to get a drink or a snack, and came back and things just carried on. I really didn't think much of it. Just as I didn't think much of asking him a few times to take one of the kids to the bathroom because I was busy. There may have been not the best tone if I had to ask more than once, despite my best intentions. I'm not sure. I'm used to the majority of events we go to, he disappears and I am left chasing after small children. And I don't get to have fun, I am stressed out and resentful because my partner gets to do what he wants, and I am watching the kids and I feel like the designated babysitter. And more isolated. And at those events, I usually just let it go and don't say anything. So over the years, some resentment has built up. I've tried talking about it after events or when calmer, but things do not change. I just stopped going to the events as I tended to come back from them feeling more stressed than I did beforehand. He has tried a few times to be more aware of this, but it still goes back to the pattern of me becoming default parent and him getting sucked into some sort of conversation with everyone and not even noticing that I'm struggling to get a child to stay in a tent or dealing with a melt down, or something else.
I've found my friend increasingly hard to talk to lately. She went through a very upsetting divorce about 6 years ago and I called a few days ago because I was really upset over some things and I was just trying to ask how she managed to keep herself calm or what tricks she had to regulate her emotions during that time. During her divorce, she had to act like she didn't know about some of the things occurring because there was an active investigation involving police. And I got my face ripped off and told I'll never understand because her relationship was highly abusive and she was in it for 8 years and I'll never know what that's like or what it's like to be in a highly abusive relationship. And honestly, I snapped back at her. I didn't call to compare lives, I called wanting to talk to a friend and asking for coping tools and advice. I was aware that her relationship was highly abusive and that what I'm dealing with now is nothing like that. The comment really stung because, before her divorce, I had also been in a highly abusive marriage. My ex-husband was verbally abusive and controlling. At the end of it, I think he did come close to seriously hurting me, but stopped at the last moment. Her ex was a narcissist. I got this big lecture on how I'll never understand and how HER ADHD is so different that she can compartmentalize better than any other ADHD person etc. She got told that I get that I didn't experience what she went through, but that she also has no clue about every single thing I've gone through and I didn't call to compare notes. I called because I was upset and wanted a friend to talk to. Not someone telling me I "need to grow up". And honestly, I just feel like I've lost my friend at this point. I don't necessarily think she meant any harm, but the way the conversation went left me feeling really lonely and kind of stupid for having even tried to ask her for coping tools since it turned into this big lecture. There was some comment about how I am attracted to "projects" and how she knows I'm not going to actually leave my partner and will instead model problematic relationships to my children and some other stuff because of how long it took me to leave my ex husband. At this point, I just kept saying "Ok" to her and moved to get off the phone with her. I wanted to tell her off, but knew that wasn't helpful. Apparently that was me just dismissing and getting defensive. Vs., she's assuming things about me and speaking like they're fact and like she's being helpful and instead, she's just being hurtful and doesn't have a full picture, and I ended up shutting down.
I am planning on leaving my partner. I'm sad about it, but part of the reason I am leaving is because I don't want my kids to think that you have to stay in a relationship like this. And I want to be happy again. Because I'm not right now.
I have ADHD too. And I feel like she keeps trying to minimize that or compare us or make herself out to sound like her ADHD is so different than mine, or .. something. And, it's not a comparison thing to me at all. It's two people talking about experiences they have that won't be the same but that might help someone else gain a different insight or viewpoint on life.
I don't know, but you mentioned patterns. And after first typing this out and then rereading it, what you said clicked. I've got a pattern for example where if someone misspells or mispronounces something, I have this impulse to correct them. I know it bothers people, I know that it is annoying. And I can't fully explain it, but something in my brain feels heavily agitated over it and it just comes out of "actually you say it this way" or "do you mean *insert word here*" and it's not me being malicious. It's me defaulting to a pattern I've had since childhood. As an adult, I don't do it as often but I can say that it feels painful almost to not do it. Like I have to really bite my tongue or remind myself that it isn't helpful, and then usually try to distract myself with something. And I'm teaching myself to just make the reply mentally in my head and leave it be. But when stressed or when I feel out of my depth, I 100% tend ot just do this without even thinking or realizing it.
I think I do feel like I've lost control of my relationship. And I do think some of the ways that I have spoken or acted in the past bit have been my way of trying to feel a semblance of control. Even if they are problematic. And sometimes I don't think I realize that they are, because I am just desperate to get that semblance of control back.
No idea if this makes any sense or not, I tried. I'm having a tough time focusing today, and I'm sad. I just wanted to add the bit about my friend because my recent phone call saddened me and I feel like while we will remain friends, I don't feel like she is someone that I can confide in anymore. I've got other friends that will bluntly tell me when they disagree with me, or think that I'm wrong. But that are able to do it in a way that doesn't come across as just trying to hurt, or trying to make it sound like I'm some sort of grown child that doesn't know how to navigate life at all.
Whoops, I should have Asked this FIrst
Submitted by BeyondConfused on
I might have missed what you were trying to say. Were you trying to say that sometimes my partner and I may be defaulting to certain behaviors towards one another due to patterns and as a way to relieve anxiety or feel in control?
Not exactly
Submitted by J on
I think it may be easier to approach what I was saying from a different direction instead. I understand you're planning on leaving your spouse so this really isn't about him but more about your future.
If I could go back in time and tell myself everything I know now....I would tell ( me ) to listen to what people were trying to tell me.After a number of relationships failing one after another, I began to realize that all these different people, who were not connected to each other in any way....seemed to be ALL be saying the sane things? And the only thing they had in common with each other was me. I was the lowest common denominator....all roads lead back to me.
No matter where you go or who you're with in future, you always take you with you including ADHD and whatever else you have going on.
I wish I'd listened to those people sooner. And many times they were angry of upset with me at the time they were telling me. I didn't understand then what I know now, but if I had listened and really did some self reflecting, I would have realized they were all talking about the symptoms I have especially ones that related to having ADHD. My symptoms and my resulting behaviors were negatively impacting the people I had relationships with. And not just my intimate relationships but everyone I came in contact with.
If I had listened to my family, friends and intimate partners back then, I would have seen they were all trying to tell me the same thing which was....the things I was doing ( my behaviors) and things I'd say were hurting others and causing them to take a step back. It wasn't them that was the problem when they'd get angry or upset with me....it was me, doing damage to my relationships and behaving in ways that caused others to move away and withdraw.
I don't know the particulars of all that went on in your story ( I wasn't there )...and I'm not a therapist of mental health professional....but if I had advise to give to myself in the past....I would tell my past self to listen to what all those people were trying to tell me...even if it came in a hurtful manner to me.
I'm also sorry you're having such a tough time and going through everything you're having to deal with. It must be very hard for you and I'm sorry.
Lightbulb!
Submitted by BeyondConfused on
Thank you for clarifying this, I understand now.
And this has been something I've been doing a ton of self-reflection on recently. I know my RSD comes into play in relationships and has caused issues in the past. I was in one healthy relationship where I was constantly worried and anxious that my partner would leave me. He would get annoyed and tell me off. It was me that left him because I realized that the dynamic wasn't healthy.
With my ex-husband, there were warning signs that I missed. I wanted someone to "take care of me" so to speak and I let that relationship and person entirely consume me. We met when I was 18. I lost my sense of self and the longer we were together, the more I changed. I was very anxious with him He displayed some red flags and instead of asserting myself, I would ignore them or have an anxiety-based reaction that would result in me drawing closer to him. My whole thing then was that I wanted someone to love me and marry me. To complete me so to speak. And I never really put any thought into what I wanted out of a partner other than that. I knew I didn't want to be with an abuser, and I wanted to be with someone that I could laugh with. He was older than me, and someone else had given me a lecture on how I was now dating a "man" and not a "boy" like an ex that I had recently split with. And I took that stupid speech to heart. When he came home from work stressed out and wouldn't talk to anyone or exhibited toxic behavior, I chalked it up to him being a "man". But I also became addicted to the adrenaline rush associated with arguing, being upset, and then making up shortly after. He used intimidation tactics and fear and did a lot of gaslighting and flipping the script on me and blaming me. I never thought of this as abuse because he never hit me. He'd punch holes in walls near my head, but he wasn't hitting me, so I was able to justify it.
I had family try to point out his problematic behavior but unfortunately, that just drew me closer to him. He knew my biggest fear in life was being alone, so he used that fear when he felt like I was withdrawing and would do things where I would react in a panic because I didn't want to lose him. He was manipulative and mentally abusive. Eventually, he had an affair, and I got the courage to leave him.
With my new partner, there are a few similar patterns. The relationship felt rushed in some ways. He started professing feelings for me and acting very close to me soon into our relationship. I felt uncomfortable with this and put a pause on things and had us slow down. We communicated a lot of things in the start and I think we both were attempting to put things on a positive trajectory. There were other situations where I was able to justify things feeling rushed because he had left a toxic living situation with roommates. He wasn't living with me at this point, but I ended up storing some of his items in my garage while he lived elsewhere. The plan wasn't to store those items long-term, but he eventually moved in. We kept some distance between us because I had gotten to a point where I realized I wanted a partner but didn't need someone in my life. They don't complete me, having a partner just helps enhance the journey through life. To start, I feel like I approached our relationship with a healthier perspective than my marriage. But had a blind spot and didn't notice that things were still developing a little faster than comfortable. Or how he acted around others was slightly problematic. When he did move in, he made a lot of changes around the house rather quickly. I didn't say anything to start because I liked the changes, but I realize this is where I should have pointed out that those kinds of decisions were to be made together. Not just him deciding he was changing things in my house that he had just moved into and not confirming with the owner of the house.
I think the biggest thing is that as the relationship went on, things that became issues later, started to crop up early. And I would find ways to justify them because there seemed to be reasonable explanations. I did this in my marriage too. It felt different this time because I felt like it was a different scenario and none of these things seemed to be being done maliciously. With my ex-husband, he would say and do hurtful things. With my current partner, it's more he'd have things happen TO him that weren't his fault. But there was always some drama. And I think I was too busy dealing with being a single mom, dealing with my ex-husband making problems, and work drama to fully step back and take stock of what was going on. Red flags didn't really start to crop up until after my second pregnancy. And by this point, I felt like I wanted to try and work on the relationship, because now I'm a mom of many children.
We also both handle conflict differently. I prefer to be very direct and approach things right away so that they don't get forgotten about or swept under the rug. But I will approach them when calm so as to take the emotion out of any potential disagreements. If things get heated, I will take a step back. He's very avoidant and if things get heated, he either shuts right down, or digs in and can't seem to back down. And so sometimes I would just let things go when he became avoidant, or I would push a bit too much on wanting to talk and he would shut down. As the relationship started to break down, I noticed that my RSD was starting to become worse and I started reverting to unhealthy patterns. I was trying to communicate with someone that wasn't communicating and I didn't know how to approach that. Instead of trying to be calm and mindful when approaching things, I would react anxiously, or I would just avoid the conflict completely. I would get upset because if I brought up one issue, he would then bring up a whole bunch of issues unrelated to it. I stop this pattern the moment it happens and if we can't stay on topic, I propose that we discuss the issue when we are both calmer. I was still trying to assert myself and model healthy communication, but I would walk away quickly the moment things became contentious. And that started happening more frequently. It felt like the more I tried to be calm and mindful, the more my partner would lash out and react in problematic ways or he would stonewall me. And I learned to either let it go (as per advice from a family member) or I would just avoid the conflict completely. And all that does is means that the problem just comes up again later on since it was never truly dealt with.
I can see now that he has been very controlling and has used some manipulative tactics to get his way. I have no idea if he realizes that or not, and it is neither here nor there. After I became pregnant, I found out he had lied to me about something. I remember feeling trapped because I was pregnant with our son. And he showed remorse. When my ex lied, he never showed remorse, he always flipped the blame to me. This person showed remorse and took accountability and I let it go. We worked through this together. I shouldn't have, but I did. If I hadn't been pregnant, I 100% think I would have just ended things and sent him packing.
I feel like I try too hard sometimes to see the good in others, and then get taken advantage of. I had a very strong stance on what I would and wouldn't tolerate when I first met him. But then all these things just kept happening and I think it skewed my lens. Oddly enough, it was friends and family that convinced me to stay with him or give him another chance. And I think this is where I need to learn to stick with my gut feelings. Relationships take work, but relationships consist of two people, and it can't just be one person doing all the work by themselves.
The one time we went to break up a family member told me that relationships were always hard and I was going to have a harder time of it since I had an ex-husband and kids already. That's fair, but that doesn't mean I should stay with someone who is verbally abusive to my kids. Nor should I turn a blind eye to that.
So I feel like I fell into this trap of trying to people please, and avoiding conflict to keep the peace. And that doesn't work. I know that doesn't work, yet I still did it. Because it was easier than admitting that there was a problem. I wasn't confronting my partner regularly or getting upset with him over all sorts of little things which is what I did in my past marriage. This time I was bringing things up on occasion and trying to use calm and assertive language. But when that didn't work, I was going the extreme opposite and not dealing with it at all. And then it got to a point where I wasn't asserting myself or trying to set boundaries anymore.
What saddens me a bit is that now that I have taken a step back, my partner appears to be actively trying and working on himself. And that's great for him. Hopefully that means we will be able to communicate in a healthy manner since we still have children together. But, we are still breaking up. He is verbally abusive to the kids and that is not ok. It was not ok the first time I noticed it and I should have nipped it in the bud the first time instead of justifying and making excuses for it.
I know this could change, but I'm quite content to live alone and have no real desire to be in a romantic relationship again. If I do, I feel like I have some patterns to watch out for. Things would have to move very slowly and I would need to watch that I don't become attracted to the novelty of being with someone that seems to have a rather dramatic life. I would want to be with someone with stability in their life and that has their own identity separate from mine. I would need to be ready to walk away at the first sign of a red flag. And if I was with a person that tried rushing into things and was really eager to start combining the stuff in our lives together right away, that would also be something to watch out for. I like impulsivity but I need to learn to let things happen at a slower and more natural pace and maybe to step back a bit more regularly and assess things from a neutral perspective vs. trying to justify when I notice things that could end up being problematic.
sorry for the novel and a half here. I appreciate what you said. I agree with it, and typing this out kind of helped me determine and realize some of my patterns that I tend to fall into when I am in relationships. It's taken me years to move from being a very clingy person to learning how to give a partner space. But I learned that there's also a thing as too much space. It's about finding that healthy middle ground.
Sounds familiar
Submitted by J on
I agree with the last thing you said about finding a healthy middle ground. Balance being the goal I think. I suppose balance is what a stable relationship is all about. In in my mind, I've got to be balanced if I'm going to bring my part of the equation into it. Bringing my best self into any relationship means me being balanced first and staying that way....a whole person by myself.
Balance Is Key Along with Being a Whole Person
Submitted by BeyondConfused on
Yep. I think I started with the best of intentions. And with time, I allowed that balance to shift. And it ultimately cost me. But, I am learning from it at least. Even now with my partner, I am starting to take back some of my power and shift the balance towards the middle again. I am hoping that we will be able to remain amicable for the sake of our kids. I am unsure of how our couples counseling session is going to go. With him not taking his medication, I feel that he has become very unpredictable. Not so much the ADHD medication but the antidepressants. But I am working on avoiding people pleasing or else just peace-keeping and doing whatever to keep things calm. I am being careful to avoid falling back into a parent-child dynamic. I am working on being more assertive and gently pushing back or standing firm when my boundaries are being tested. I don't feel devastated over this like I did when I broke up with my ex-husband. It's sad, but I feel at peace with the whole thing. And it feels good knowing that I am regaining my sense of self.
Isn't that the crux of the matter....
Submitted by J on
not being balanced in the first place? I mean, ADHD is a chemical imbalance and an imbalance in other functions going from one extreme to another: emotional disregulation and behaviors, insecure attachments....anything you can name, has to do with imbalance. And speaking about your soon to be ex-partner....not taking meds to help you stay balanced...a correction to that chemical imbalance in the brain.
I'm glad to hear your taking measures to get yourself back on track. It sounds like your doing the very things you need to be doing.