Not to sure if I should post this in the Communication section?!?!?!?
How in the world do we deal with communication? My spouse very often INSISTS he told us something - but we, for everything we try, simply do not remember him saying it - AT ALL. I do not want to BLAME him - as communication is difficult without adding ADHD into the mix. My usual disclaimer will be in effect here - if it were only me, I would look closer at how I miss things all the time.
The pick-up truck with the winch was needed this AM. The plates expired Friday. My spouse is out fishing. I called to ask him about it - and he states he TOLD our son last night of his plans to use the truck. The truck is parked in his friend's yard about one mile up the street. He stated he knew the plates were expired, and since the truck is titled in his name and he needs to get the plates, he left the other truck with the valid plates. Good thinking :) No sarcasm. Really, good thinking.
My spouse does indeed work through a lot of details in his head. And while this is a long process for him - he thinks he verbalizes things. So we get up against I TOLD YOU. OK, well no one remembers.
Just another one of those annoying details that muck up the day.
Communication was deficient SOMEWHERE. Not sure how to encourage my spouse to WANT to look at his end of the deal, rather than INSIST he TOLD US. Period. And why can't we ever listen to what he says?
For what it's worth....
Submitted by c ur self on
It happen's here often also...If you contradict it....well it just isn't worth it:)...So, I try to let it drop...Tried other things, that just got messy:)
That brings up a question: Does our insecurities give us the fight to the death syndrome about everything in life where blame is assigned having to be someone else's fault?
Looking for new avenues, not to enable, but to make better
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Hello C,
1. If you contradict it - sometimes he does need to be called on task.....
2. well it just isn't worth it:) - and right now, this is so true. But things need to improve if the marriage will heal
3. So, I try to let it drop. - this is where the decision has to come in of choosing wisely if it should be dropped.
4. Tried other things, that just got messy:) so far this is a correct assessment. I need to find a way for it not to get messy.
5. Does our insecurities give us the fight to the death syndrome about everything in life where blame is assigned having to be someone else's fault? Bingo, ding, ding, ding, ding!
There's the rub in this sector of the day. I see my spouses hurt. He has not taken time to unpack any of his emotional baggage. He has just kept shoving it in and shoving it in and shoving it in. I have taken time, and still take time, to unpack my baggage. I am not perfect. I can, however, tell a story or share a lesson WITHOUT returning TO the place and becoming the pain.
I hope he will want to take the time to travel through that painful place, and then come out the other end. At this time, he successfully diverts/uses smoke and mirrors to some very sad sad places, thus we are unable to work out little spats in a logical manner. Truly, how big of deal is it when he puts stuff in my barn space while he is still trapped in the place of mourning his parents death? He will defend his actions to the maximum hilt. And then, stay angry.
That said, I am not a fool. I am tired of chaos. I feel for his pain. I just cannot choose to live IN IT with him. I hope he wants to get past it. I know he is working hard. I also pray he is working better. No one can deny he tries hard. Without guidance, both from church and counseling, he will spin his wheels into oblivion.
Grace and Love seems to turn into enablment..I'm lost!!!
Submitted by c ur self on
Have you ever wanted to love him in that selfless way? You know, like give him the whole barn...I found out the more I do for my wife trying to love her and make her life as good as I can...It just seems to cause her to use me as BIGGER AND BIGGER crutch...I do not know how to love this women...It seems like I just become an enabler and create more and more expectations in her....Oh well, I know it will be OK someday :)
LOL! Selfless.
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Hi C,
One of the things my spouse said attracted him to me was my selflessness. I find that pretty weird at this point of the game.
In the name of love, I purposely chose to give up on things. Ideals. Balance in the chore department. Support in becoming financially stable and successful.
In the 'share and share alike' department, I slowly backed away from all the things I thought were fair . I think my space in the barn is 4 feet deep by 6-8 foot wide. Having the space was a sacrifice for me- I gave up spending money on a cute little garden shed, and accepted my corner of the barn.
The things I did for love, and yet still got my heart stomped.
I have been thinking lately of "When did I just know." We have had some of the same disagreements over and over and over. I do remember, the night my niece lost her 10 year battle to leukemia. I was in bed, and swept over by deep sobbing grief. I ran downstairs, and literally climbed into my spouses lap and curled up just thinking I would be hugged and snuggled and held in his arms. And he watched TV. And I cried. And then went back up to my bed to cry alone.
So, try as I might to understand he has no control over these things, and it is the ADHD, and he has a brain disorder, I am just not buying into it anymore. He sees quite clearly other people's behavior missteps. He judges other's actions as mean and uncaring. He scrutinizes us all under a powerful microscope - but he has no mirror strong enough to see his own behavior as anything but, well, just fine.
same here, exhausted...
Submitted by c ur self on
Most of the past six years I've spent with my W I've not even known who I was, my friends said the same, even my children...I'm slowly getting that back...Everything I enjoyed in life had to be tempered or given up. Or at least I allowed it be... Her lifestyle and expectations were and is all consuming. Most every thing is a big deal, she wants everyone's attention so she can tell us the plan, she does this to our grown children and even her friends if she thinks she can get by with it...She even radiates toward her younger co-workers because they are less wise and more flexible...(I think she is oblivious to the reason of course) It's how she establishes her importance in life. Her intense desire to control where we go what we do...There is hardly ever a time where we create a unified peaceful plan we can both agree on...It's either you go w/me or we go our separate ways. She doesn't say it, but, the way she makes statements, what's the alternative?
Here at home I spend so much time picking up behind her...Her clothes, shoes, bathroom is always pretty much a wreck when she runs out for work...I don't know, it's like picking up after a child, except you can't teach them, because their an adult and we all know how that turns out...This morning is typical of her life...I'm up with coffee, reading the paper on line...She gets up only because she has a doctor's appt...Of course she only allows time to do what it takes for herself...She walks by the door and say's what are you having for breakfast..(of course that means are you going to cook something for us?) I say I'm having cereal in a bit when I finish my coffee...So see heads off....So I start hearing comments...She always has big plans with no follow through....She joined a place to swim, cause she likes it and it's good exercise for her...So she say's why don't you go to the Doctor with me, so when I get out you can ride up to the Gym with me while I swim...So it will make me go...lol....I pretty much do not respond to those traps anymore...If I say anything I just encourage her by saying...Well, your a big girl and well able to do the things that are good for you...But, I just had to back off because being a man who just wants to fix everything just created more trouble than I can type here! I was allowing her to make my whole life about waiting on her and helping her be disciplined to do the right things, and I was making it worse...Basically I had no life of my own. I've had to start thinking about me again hopefully not in a selfish way, but what does God want from my life to honor him? I know loving my wife is big on that list...But, what is Love? I know its not enablement of bad behaviors....
There are things I know I will have to be responsible for, at least I have had to up to this point in life. If we have a clean house who is going to have to be the leader and do most of it. But, I'm just not going to allow her life to completely dictate mine any longer...I still do things with her, because I think it's important for us...but since I've started living my own life again, and not fallen to her manipulating lifestyle, Sanity has come back into my world..
I really wonder if she see's herself in this all consuming life she lives? I wonder about what you said, about your husband being attracted to your selflessness? People like us make the perfect enabler for adults who do not want, or see themselves as in capable of standing up to the day to day responsibility of being a responsible adult...I know in my situation with my wife the more I quietly stand my ground...Quit enabling, quit jumping in the path of every wreck I see approaching. She does better!...before I was miserable, plus, it gave her something to make everything my fault (the perfect excuse for one who lives a life of blame and denial)...So, I think it's all going to work out...I just have to keep my focus on the main things and my heart at rest in Jesus.
Besides we all know we grow stronger as patiently go thru these trials....
Blessings!
Chemistry
Submitted by sunlight on
"My spouse very often INSISTS he told us something - but we, for everything we try, simply do not remember him saying it - AT ALL"
In very, very simplistic terms, let's look at what has to happen for him to remember telling you something:
1/ Have the thought (in this case let's assume he decided to use the truck the next day and decided to tell son, that's actually two things and two thoughts but we'll combine them).
2/ Commit the thought to memory (eg remember that I have decided to take the truck and have decided to tell son).
3/ Tell the brain to put the thought into a sentence and send it to the mouth (eg formulates and constructs the sentence "Son, I will be taking the truck tomorrow" )
4/ Send the sentence to the mouth
5/ Speak the sentence
6/ Remember speaking the sentence (ie commit to memory the recollection of having spoken sentence to son)
But he has glitchy cognitive, memory, 'deciding and acting' circuits. At any one of the 6 steps a temporary upset in the transmission process through the brain might happen. This will appear to be effectively random (probably pseudo-random but severity and frequency of glitches in the machine will vary from person to person, what they ate, whether they're tired or distracted, level and type of medication, and probably other factors).
From your previous descriptions of him I'm prepared to bet that he is unaware that he did not speak the sentence. His brain had an upset in the chemical processes at some point during the stages 1 through 6 and his memory doesn't know about that (and there are added complications here because memory is one of the things that isn't working well).
This type of chemical error is at the very heart of ADHD, and I see it in my husband too in various ways.
The only thing that can work is improving brain function (you can see where I'm going with this) and especially improving memory.
Talking about it and asking him to try harder will not prevent it or ameliorate it, you can not anticipate it, you can not (current state of science) fix it and neither can he. He can work as hard as he likes at it but he does not know, in the instant or afterwards, that the sequence misfired, his brain has gone on to the next thing. This could happen to any of us with some forms of brain injury or other memory disorders and is one of the reasons there is so much research into how to affect the brain in order to make the circuits 'work better'. Until then we fall back on whatever drugs improve the situation (unique to each person) and try to use techniques such as external reminders as props similarly to how brain injury sufferers may have to learn to rely on external assistance.
So in this case what might he have done since he knows (does he not?) that there appears to be a problem and it might be with him or at least he might be persuaded to try a few things even if under the guise of helping you and not him (!). Stupid example - does he have a cellphone that can take photos? If yes then ask him whenever he thinks he might take a truck next day and that he needs to make someone aware then walk outside, take a photo of the truck and send it to the people he needs to tell. Or if he's too lazy, if he isn't near the truck, take a photo of any random object and send that. Just do it (*). He needn't say anything, write a text or anything else. Just sending the picture will alert others that something is going on and either he will be along to tell them anytime now or they'll ask why on earth he sent that odd photo of a coffee cup a few hours before. What is absolutely critical is that sending the photo (or taking whatever action) is done as near as possible to the time of the thought, and that he transmits it to others. Even the very act of taking the photo should help getting that thought into memory. If he then remembers to tell son, and does so, then all is good. And if he doesn't someone else knows something is up.
(* what if he can't remember to "just do it"? Well in this instance he might have forgotten to tell son and then everyone would run around and he would have to interact with them and confusion ensues. That is the opportunity to request that he remembers to take the darned photo next time (of course this should be done nicely). Over time this will seep into his brain muscle memory and he will get better at it (after all he did learn how to put his clothes on, and to write, and this is easier).
So maybe this example is nuts. But using visual reminders created at the time of an incident (eg making a decision about a truck) *and* telling someone else about the reminder followed later by evidence of how life works more smoothly now (everyone appears happier) and he feels more appreciated (because his communication is better) might encourage him to feel that other parts of life and relationships can be improved too. I suppose the trick might be getting him to buy into something like this but he does seem eager to make you happier and even if you still decide to go your own ways he is better equipped with an extra tool in his toolset.
Roundfile this if it won't work for you. I think this kind of approach does work for some with memory issues but we're all different.
Perfect Sense
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Sunlight,
All you said makes perfect sense. Right now, as of today, for this place in time, all of that knowledge will be kept for future reference. I BELIEVE with all my being that my spouse will choose to want get past his defensive posture and then we can try approaching things from new angles.
I must get some signal of the willingness from him. I hear from my own support sources that this may be true. We shall see.
It does take 2 to make a relationship. Even with ADHD involved. I cannot do all the work, and do all the understanding of why I must do all the work, and live with poor treatment and hostility tossed at me, and suffer anxiety over our debt.
LOL! We are now at least 10 years into trying to get him to come into the same room we are in if he wants to tell us something. We are running out of angles for that one, too. It used to be I would jump to go hear what he is saying, as that was the less unpleasant of the alternative - him bellowing at us.
" We are now at least 10 years into trying to get him
Submitted by Standing on
to come into the same room we are in if he wants to tell us something. We are running out of angles for that one, too. It used to be I would jump to go hear what he is saying, as that was the less unpleasant of the alternative - him bellowing at us. "
lol Yep.
One thing I learned from my dad was to practice selective hearing. This has worked wonders here :)
We might as well be speaking two differnet languages
Submitted by frustratedinfla on
My DH and I can't even have a conversation anymore without it turning into either an arguement or me crying and upset!
He takes EVERYTHING i say the wrong way, like i'm picking on him or attacking.
He says EVERYTHING that comes to mind, and comes right out of his mouth, the filter is broken or something! If i catch him at a "non therapeutic" moment, it may be ugly or mean. Or he gives me the silent treatment.
He always wants to "table" discussions for a later time, when he's medicated, but we never really get there.
It's hard.. I miss the old him! :(
Gosh, this struck me!
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
It's hard.. I miss the old him! :(
Sometimes I would think this. Looking of course through those rose-colored glasses at only the good things. I know my spouse missed the old me, too. the one who took responsibility, the one who did it all, the one who adjusted and bent and swayed and went along with his every whim, the one who always volunteered, "I am so sorry, it MUST be me."
Now I am trying to sort it all out. I need to take one little step at a time - and in my OWN head I need to be focusing on the fact that I may be going it financially alone, so I am in college trying to get a business degree, while continually squashing the voice yelling loudly in my brain that I am wasting my time, because WHO will hire a 55 year old woman with a brand spankin' new business degree?!?!?!?!? Regardless of the fact that she did work for 7 years in an accounting department, and did all the bookkeeping and administration for her husband's construction business for the past 30 years.
I cringe at a few things my spouse has said. Like mentioning to my brother-in-law that smoking pot in college could have lead to the leukemia that took his daughter's life. You just do not say things like that - out loud. Those brakes, the ones to curb blurting out things, are not built in to my spouse. I do get perplexed by the fact that even in hind sight, he sees nothing wrong with blurting that out. THAT bothers me.
I said this....no you didn't
Submitted by dedelight4 on
I can't tell you HOW MANY times we have gone through this in our marriage. It's been in the thousands by now. My husband will accusingly say..."I TOLD YOU THAT JUST THE OTHER DAY".....when I KNOW he didn't. And then the reverse....."YOU SAID SUCH AND SUCH TO ME, JUST YESTERDAY".....when I didn't. I don't know HOW this type of thinking and accusations come about, but it happens SO MUCH, it started making me feel like I was LITERALLY "loosing my mind".
My husband's memory is NOT the same as mine. Yes, I DO forget things at time, but I can remember conversations, with pretty accurate verbatim. DH can NOT. I believe he "thinks" about things, and in his mind, he's THINKING that things "get said" that really DON'T GET SAID. And then, he mentally accepts THAT as gospel truth, when it's a DISTORTION of what actually happened. I'm surprised EVERY couple here hasn't been divorced by now, just due to this fact alone. It can be VERY UPSETTING to ALWAYS be ACCUSED of things you SAID or DIDN'T SAY, and then NEVER get an APOLOGY if the ADHD spouse finds out that they were in fact, WRONG. But, then they WON'T ADMIT that they were wrong.................YOU............had to be WRONG......just BECAUSE. It's a never ending merry-go-round.
I have bailed off that merry go round.
Submitted by Standing on
The cognitive distortions are the worst for me. If it is important enough for me to take issue over it becoming confused or forgotten, I write it down. Otherwise, I don't count on anything. If I have written it down and it still gets messed, I have the full confidence that I have not lost my mind. Who could ask for anything more? ;)
I tell him that if it is important to him, he must write it down, because my memory is not perfect. Otherwise... don't count on me remembering. It is entirely up to him whether or not he chooses to do so. If he doesn't... o well.
This has been my method of letting the whole ordeal go and retaining my own sanity, which is really all that I am responsible for in the first place.
There's Filtering, Cognition and There's Rote Memory
Submitted by kellyj on
I've found that when conversations start and end in the same place I'm going in a circle. I also notice when I make comments that the "sky is blue" and the response is "no it's not"....something else is going on here. Memory/ recalll in communication have a lot to do with a person's filters, perception, cognitive ability and simply if they are listening in the first place.
More often than not when I am in Hyper focus mode...your chances of being heard, remembered accurately or even acknowledge are slim to none and I have had to force myself to stop long enough to say " give me a minute...and thn make it a minute. lol
Straight out of one (maybe more) of the ADHD books I've read say "make sure you have their undivided attention. Absolutely!
On my end I also have to really watch when my wife for example.....knowing she needs to get my attention while telling me important things routinely walks into the other room while carrying on a conversation with me. I've told her repeatedly that I cannot communicate this way especially when it's important. She does this (as everyone does at times) absent minded to my need to stay in physical eye contact range focus of her when I need to commit what she is telling me to permanent memory and I have to catch myself in the moment when I realize that I am no longer listening to her...or at least very well. My hearing is not great and that exacerbates the problem.
That's my responsibility to her giving that I have a problem with this even though she doesn't. it take practice!
I don't know if rote memory has anything to do with it. My rote memory is way above average ( visual memory too ) and I don't suffer from cognition problems either. Wondering if ADHD has anything to do with this?
Sounds like most of the issues being discussed here is filtering and perception......I can clearly see a connection to ADHD here for sure.
J