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This was exactly my marriage. For the final 10 years, we had no sex at all and prior to that it was once or twice (max) per year and only because he felt guilty, which didn't feel great. Like you, it was gone all at once. We didn't ever have a lot, but an amount that made us both happy at first. My husband was also embarrassed but refused to seek help. I don't think he cared to get help because he was happy never being intimate and I was the only one suffering. I don't know if this is your husband, but I found out mine was addicted to porn, which he hid very well for a long time.
I just want you to know that I have gone through that whole range of emotions. I felt undesirable and terrible about myself for years. It is NOT YOU. It's ALL HIM. You are wonderful and desirable and this is fully his problem that he has made your problem by not meeting you anywhere near middle ground. I don't know if you'll be able to go on like this forever, but I do know the change must come from him, and it doesn't sound like he's willing. I hope you can find peace with it and enjoy the other forms affection since you're choosing to stay with him. Just know that you're not alone and a lot of non-ADHD partners report similar experiences. Maybe therapy would help so you can talk to someone about it and regain your much-deserved self-esteem.
I am curious to know what he says is the problem for him. My ADHD spouse is the opposite, he wants sex all the time and I am the one too exhausted and stressed and angry and scared to feel that energy. Also I'm going through menopause, but I think my stress and sadness is the real problem with my total lack of sexual drive.
Mine wanted daily sex and bcos of his acute selfishness and stinginess my desire for him waned . I was also too exhausted bcos he did nothing for me or the kids , he just wanted his own needs met. I need emotional and physical security to be sexually attracted to him and he lacked any form of capacity. I was more of his mum caring and picking up after him than a wife . He was a taker not a giver . He claimed I rejected him and I emasculated him bcos of the lack of sex but he's not emotionally mature to see where the real problem lies
It was like you had dipped into my life and wrote that post, it was a conversation one day that went "I don't want sex anymore", plus your rubbish in bed. Then the kicker was that I showed i was upset and it had affected me... I was in the wrong because I was now guilt tripping her. If I mentioned sex or how the lack of intimacy was affecting my self esteem, me not feeling close to her and like I wasn't wanted or desirable... I was pestering her about sex. Something I would never do, even though we are married I never expected or felt like it was my partners duty. The whole thing has left me feeling alone, undesirable, unattractive, a failure and not like a real man. I have sat down and opened my heart up to her about how it makes me feel, that I don't need sex but need her to be present and work through things together. Their are lots of couples who are in sexless marriages, but their relationship evolves and grows... you become closer and find that intimacy in other ways that brings you both closer... but its like I am talking to a brick wall. No response, no input and when asked how she feels... its a case of "I don't know what you want me to say. Its like she has dropped a bomb... everything has exploded and people have been hurt... but the blast didn't affect her and as such its not her problem but mine to deal with.
Your experience is exactly what my ADHD ex- husband complained of - feeling unwanted or undesirable and not feeling like a man. There is always a root cause and for me I was not a priority to him. He only wanted 2 things from the marriage- sex and for me to support his business endeavors, he always telling everyone I was very brilliant . He didn't "see" me. He was selfish and stingy to me , I could not even borrow his car or laptop. He bought things only for himself not even the kids . He still expected me to bottle all these emotions and be sexually available to him .
First of all, i'm sorry for your pain. that's tough to feel unwanted. It's probably very common in long relationships.
just a suggestion, have you ever tried....not asking? just seduce? maybe play hard to get? forgetting the labels and blaming him.....you can't control him, but you can control your own behavior. it's widely known that most men (including myself) are very visual. We are stimulated differently. If you haven't, have you tried wearing something seductive (not much) and let him be the one to pursue? Given that your husband has ADHD, it might be even more prescient in that he is even more drawn towards novelty and new shiny things.
A bit about me: I often wished my ex-wife would just dress up in lingerie i bought her, or would just wear a short skirt instead of black shapeless leggings. In her mind, and apparently a lot of women I've met, this kind of playful objectification is shunned as being misogynistic etc. I understand the feeling of wanting to be totally seen and heard as an entire sentient being, but sometimes, at least for me, it's gotta be purely animalistic. I'm not suggesting that this is going on with you at all, but I feel like the reticence to acknowledge this about male sexuality is part of a broader power struggle where each party is waiting to have their needs served first. Perhaps this is just in my own marriage, so i apologize for the generalization if it seems that way.
Her ADHD played a role- she'd say impulsive hurtful things that slowly destroyed me and led me to seek other women. She is a gorgeous woman but dressed like a hobo and acted like a needy child. I hated it. I asked over and over for her to give me space and dress sexy so I could feel like a man and conquer; at least some of the time. She would leave the house without makeup or putting in any effort and actually verbalize, "oh it's just you -- it doesn't matter." She literally cared more about what random people thought of her than she did about my feelings or our own sex life. Or regarding having sex -- "Ok let's go to the bedroom to get this over with so we can do something fun."
Men are, among other things, driven toward novelty and conquest. Show him something new and tease the shit out of him? This might get some flack, but can we be adults here please and just know i'm trying to help...... Let's put it this way.... I've never in my life heard of a guy turning down a BJ. I actually don't think it's humanly possible! that could very well get things going....
another option- there are legit sex therapists out there that deal with this all the time....
I want you to understand how deeply unhelpful your response was. Turning his ADHD sex issues back onto me because maybe I'm just not being sexy enough? No. Please don't do this to another person. Think I'd be here, howling my incredibly personal pain to strangers, if seduction, lingerie, etc. hadn't stopped working years ago? Man, I went light years beyond all of that. "Hard to get" is what got me nearly 1.5 years of no sex. Also: you have now heard of a guy who refused a BJ. I understand you're speaking "as a dude", but clearly not a dude with ADHD-related sexual issues, which is the thing that makes all the difference here. He doesn't have "normal" sexual responses to stimuli anymore like you clearly do. That's the whole point. I'm trying my best to rein this in, because obviously you think you're being helpful...but you're just not. Your advice is solid for guys who DON'T have these issues. The one good piece of advice you gave was about sex therapists--if only he'd go with me.
I just wanted to come on here and also chime in to say that this comment was unhelpful.
I also found your remarks to be pretty sexist. You need women to dress up in clothes that are uncomfortable to wear to be attracted to them? You need women to wear make up to be attractive enough for you? I suppose you also need them to get boob jobs and keep their weight down and their hair long. You think women don't know what men have been conditioned to expect for sex? We know. And even when it goes against our very being, and in the end, it leaves us feeling humiliated and used, yes, we have tried it.
Oh....and now you've heard of TWO men who have refused a BJ.
I'm offering the idea that these issues aren't the result or sole result of ADHD, and thus, there's something the OP could try, if she hadn't already, to help her situation. I was in that same situation (reciprocally), and also faced an impossible idea with accepting that people with ADHD simply are who they are and that it was on me to change around it. I couldn't but feel I could have done better in retrospect. I regret not taking on EVEN MORE responsibility in the face of someone who I loved who was technically disabled. I don't want the same same for you, the OP, or anyone else out there; to look back and realize that they could have done one or two things differently before losing their partner forever -- especially for the sake of pride.
I offered suggestions; take or leave them. My point wasn't about weight, makeup, or clothes. The point is EFFORT. It's a relationship. Men aren't conditioned to want women who look fertile and healthy. It's biology. A woman or man who doesn't take care of themselves; for their own sake or that of the relationship, is objectively less attractive.
Included in the article is the idea of "RSD", or rejection sensitivity dysphoria -- I would assume that if the OP or yourself treated your man with the type of shaming tactics that you've resorted to with me upon a suggestion to help, then it would make sense that the guy would probably also not feel emotionally safe enough for intimacy.
I am sorry (edited, personal attack) that you are only attracted to people who "take care of themselves by keeping their weight down." Fortunately, most people, women and men, realize that physical appearance, including weight, is only a small part of what makes humans appealing to other humans. I suggest that you not generalize your (edited) outlook to everyone else.
Women of all shapes and sizes have experienced sexual abandonment. I am so sick of men blaming women for THEIR sexual neglect or THEIR cheating! After finding out that my first husband was a serial cheater, a friend of mine (a male) said I should dress and behave sexier to "fight for my man!" I got a divorce and dumped that friend too.
I mentioned that if the OP walked away from the marriage, she would know that she had tried everything within her power to save the marriage -- that's all. If it happens that means she hasn't yet tried dressing sexier, playing hard to get, etc. etc, then okay, don't do it.
A therapist once told me, "A relationship isn't 50/50, it's 100/100" i.e. each party does everything they can.
I've been attacked here by 4 women assuming I'm some kind of misogyny monster because I'm willing to acknowledge that men are visual creatures and are attracted to women who put effort into their appearance, and, since someone else suggested it, maintain a healthy weight. This isn't news, and it's not even a gross generalization (a generalization without factual support). It isn't shallow -- it's biology. The fact that you don't accept this fundamental part of men is misandrist. We can't help how we're wired. Men are objectified for a million reasons, but you don't hear me crying about it.
For men, it's not a small part. It's absolutely necessary. Sorry you don't like it. But to your point, it's insufficient. We still need a real connection, trust, respect, etc.
Sorry, I agree with others above that your initial comment comes across as insensitive.
I've generally found that women don't need to do anything at all to inspire male libido. If anything, we need to fight it off to be comfortable. If in a relationship sex doesn't work, I'd assume it's because of dysfunction or difficult emotions.
Don't tell a troubled person she should try harder to be sexy. Please. It's insulting.
If you require a woman to dress up for you and to wear make up in order to be attracted to her, my assumption is that what you mean by "healthy weight" is "unnaturally thin."
Keeping your hair long, getting a boob job, wearing uncomfortable (i.e. "sexy") clothes and making sure you don't eat enough food to maintain yourself are the cultural norm we all strive for as women because we're constantly told by people like you that's how it is.
None of those equal "taking care of ourselves." ALL of those are only for the man.
If you've ever been told that you need to lose weight by a loved one when you are 5'4" and 120 pounds, or that you might look prettier with some lipstick, you might know what we are talking about.
If you've never experienced that, you might want to keep your opinions about other women's sexual issues with their partners to yourself.
What standards does this man hold himself to in order to be physically attractive to his spouse? Clearly he expects a woman to be a certain way physically, what is he offering? Daily shower and ironed clothing done by himself, great hair and beard grooming, works out, regular dental visits, clean fingernails, polished shoes? Helpful and available? Complimentary?
I believe the point isn't about whether men - or anyone - finds certain people more attractive than others. The point being made is that WOMEN have been told (conditioned, to use your word) for many years (by men, media, and others) that it's their job to be attractive to attract a man and that if a woman fails (more accurately decides not to) expend the effort (or chooses something more appropriate to her own life) then she isn't trying hard enough, or isn't good enough. Women are tired of having others define what is good enough or right for them and how they should behave. (If you haven't seen the Barbie movie yet, part of the reason it is so popular is that there is a monologue in it about how women should be X but not too much X; Y but not too much Y; A but not too much A...many women resent having to traverse the mixed expectations our society provides about who they 'can/should' be.)
You've made your point here - that for you, visuals matter. And the women who've responded to you have made their own points - that this line of thinking, while true for you, is part of a larger narrative for them that is painful and, yes, misogynistic. They want to define how they are in the world, including sexually. You will likely have a better sex life with someone who agrees that the visual is important to you (and perhaps to them) and they will likely have a better sex life with someone who isn't so focused on that idea. Not because they aren't sexy as shit, but because they are not interested in that particular aspect.
What has been missed in this conversation in my opinion is that ALL of you are struggling with the same things - unhealthy relationships in which there is an imbalance between how much sex each partner wants or, perhaps, is willing to participate in. (A note on that - I often find that in low and no sex marriages both partners actually WANT more sex, but cannot find a way to make the relationship feel healthy enough to both partners to make that happen comfortably.). That absence of desired sex is very, very painful for men AND women, with and without ADHD. We join with our partners because we wish to feel loved, and rejection is the opposite of that.
I also did note your off the cuff comment that because your wife didn't respond to your needs that you found it elsewhere. That's concerning to me as it blames your wife for your decision to do whatever that means (cheat with someone else? Use porn? Try online sex? Phone sex?). The decision that each person makes is their own, and only their own. Counseling represents another option to stepping out of the marriage, if that's what you did. Self-reflection. Listening to what your partner wants and responding to that. So...as incredibly frustrating as it is to be with a partner who is not as sexually motivated as you are, I encourage you to, at a minimum, take responsibility for your own choices in how to respond to that.
I like your framing about the lack of reciprocity and sexual desire (i think you're right). I also think we need to zoom out further. The question I'm wondering is: If "helpful hints" are encouraged, then should we either,
1. Support someone's feelings without question because we want them to immediately feel better ("IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. IT'S ALL HIM") --- of course, while this is well-intentioned, this is a knee-jerk supportive gesture that lacks any information to make that assessment, or,
2. Make gentle suggestions that might be uncomfortable in hopes that the person learns something and maybe saves their relationship.
To me, there's WAY more value in the long-term #2. The act of blaming the ex, applying labels, and "ra-ra it's not your fault girl!" has it's value, but it's short-sighted and possibly quite damaging. I have a hard time enabling that kind of behavior. The OP's responses and the critique of my suggestions were far more elucidating than the original post.
My ex-wife (a relationship of 15 years) and I went to 4 couples counselors over the years. Our last therapist believed that ADHD was fundamentally making things impossible, including as it related to sex: The bedroom was always a mess, dog shit all over the bathroom, trust was gone (broken promises), the infamous parent-child dynamic (i'm not a pedophile so i'm not attracted to infantile behavior), checking out of sexual connection, chronic lying, no planning for sex (what's a plan!?) , etc. In the end, we were barely able to be in the same room. Any time the ADHD fidgets or interruptions were present, I was triggered. I still have an over-stimulated nervous system and am not sure I'll ever heal. (one might call it PTSD and i'm open to suggestions on how to heal as this may be a pervasive issue with ADHD partners)
As for me, since you asked, I did not cheat. Actually, my wife did -- years prior, but I tried to move past it (i never really did). What I did say, was, "led me to seek other women", which in my case, meant that I was so frustrated and emasculated that I began pushing to experiment with an open relationship. She had led me to believe that this was in the cards at an earlier time (pretending she was bisexual and getting another woman's phone #), and I became increasingly resentful when she took it off the table. In retrospect, however, my actions were mostly a result of the deteriorated bond. It was a mistake on my part that I deeply regret. I was a different person then, and if I knew then what I know now, things would be very different. I possibly would have separated sooner rather than blow it up and hurt her. I burden myself with responsibility for my actions and replay them in my head constantly.
As it relates to the male-female dynamic: PART of that relationship deterioration I experienced was what I mentioned earlier: lack of effort, respect, and consideration of each others' sexual needs. This is where my "insensitive" suggestions come from to the OP. The failure to accept that men and women are fundamentally different from each other was part of huge amounts of conflict between my ex and me. it's part of the same power struggle I'm seeing elucidated here; each party wants their needs met first and will play victim to manipulate their partner into acquiescence. "I shouldn't have to care about the way I look! I'm perfect the way I am! I shouldn't have to try harder! I define what other people find attractive about me!" It's infantile, and am also guilty of this in different ways. I wish I had done better and was, despite learning about Imago Therapy, Gottmans, Esther Perel, ADHD, female desire/biology/cycles, 12-step, years of therapy and meditation, etc. etc, I failed.
Because of my own efforts in trying to save my own relationship, I am frankly aghast at some of the comments here that are so void of accountability and reality as to make me think that this entire forum is just a vehicle by which women look to find a label to blame their failed relationships (ADHD).
That doesn't mean we like skinny women, per se, but we DO like women who take of themselves (and vice-versa!) When a man commits to a monogamous relationship and the woman "let's herself go", it's actually quite painful for us, and feels like we're taken for granted, held hostage, and bait-and-switched. Moreover, it's hard to love someone who doesn't love themselves.
There are anecdotal outliers of course; specifically, there are sick men attracted to obese women, for example -- they go to special events and commiserate about their kink. They get pleasure in keeping their wives fat and controlling their food intake.
The unwillingness to accept men as they are, and instead, try to shame them into the mold that best suits you is vehemently sexist. If nothing else, it's delusional. But, as we know, "People believe what they want to believe."
(link to Daily Mail article removed - posting rules)
None of you need to like it, but I'm not going to be bullied into saying or even considering things that are untrue because it's difficult for others to accept. Life isn't fair. Life is painful. I believe It's better to accept that and subsequently work towards making changes than to fabricate a reality-by-consensus which is what's going on here. If ya'll continue to fight for your own shortcomings at the expense of your own health, your relationship health, and the example you set for your children, then by all means.... keep doing what you're doing.
If the tables were turned and my partner was no longer aroused by me, I could do what I'm seeing here, but turn it around: I could blame women for their innate biological mate-selection criteria (finding a strong, competent, healthy, provider) and shame women by calling them gold-diggers, play the victim, blame society, blame ADHD, call women heightists, elitists, talk about alimony payements, accuse them of being disrespectful "woman-splainers!" and misandrists, and find a bunch of other men who will agree with me to shame and blame women on a forum..... OR look in the mirror: Work harder, make more money, get in shape, learn my partner's love language, learn non-violent communication --- and this would not just be for my partner--- I would also be benefiting myself, my family, and society at large.
Lastly, I get a lot of value from reading these posts as they are stark reminders not to underestimate the kind of damage I was taking in an ADHD-riddled union. I often forget just how toxic the relationship was when I miss my ex. But, that value is being undermined by the grotesque level of unaccountability here. It makes me wonder if I'm commiserating with a bunch of professional victims, and I personally do not want to be that person.
I will no longer be responding to this subject unless there are questions out of true curiosity and an effort to learn and push the conversation forward. I'm especially interested in how to recover from the damage in an ADHD relationship.
Both men and women are conditioned by their culture in many ways. Sexual expectations are just one of them.
I found these particular comments to be telling because in these particular comments, there was a certain expectation that the woman had to do all the work to be "attractive", not the man. Not only that, but the commenter seemed to feel entitled to explain the "male perspective" as though he was a) representative of all men and b) that we women didn't already know what the typical male hyped up expectation was.
This kind of comment has nothing to do with ADHD, and doesn't belong in this forum.
I'm sorry you found my comments unhelpful. As I wrote, they were just suggestions and my own personal experience. My apologies as it seems you were just looking to vent and not look for solutions or anything that you could do differently.
Nonetheless, the science seems to indicate that men with ADHD maintain their libido on par with someone without ADHD.
(Link deleted - against posting rules)
"In a 2020 studyTrusted Source with 129 adults, females with ADHD reported significantly lower sexual desire, arousal, orgasms, and overall satisfaction than females without ADHD."
This could be due to symptoms such as distraction and the inability to focus on their bodies during sexual activities.
Males with ADHD reported similar sexual desire as males without ADHD but lower orgasms, erectile function, and overall sexual satisfaction."
I tried it ALL with my ADHD husband before giving up and enduring the 10 years of no intimacy before our divorce. In fact, I feel embarrassed and degraded in retrospect by what I was willing to do just to try and rekindle anything (e.g. recreating what he was watching in porn even though it wasn't for me in the least). Of course, that was after approaching softly regarding our sex life, dressing up, playing hard to get, etc., etc. You name it... if I could control it, I tried it. None of it worked anyway and I wish I had steadily focused on keeping the conversation in the right place: HIS ADHD, HIS porn addiction (once I discovered it), HIS erectile dysfunction. So concerned with his feelings and ego I was that I surrendered my needs and feelings entirely.
I'm sure it's well intended by the poster to suggest that you could try something new or different, but that's thing about ADHD - as the "non" partners, it's perpetually on us to do the changing, the solving, the trying and that is wholly wrong. Responsibility to address an issue must be placed on the person with the issue. As the supporting partner, we can then play our part to support.
I feel for you. What happened at 5 years? There must be some reason for the "Poof"? You specifically didn't ask for advice- why not? Is it possible he's mad about something that happened (or didn't happen?) which you are not factoring in here? As a guy, I can tell you that woman are not the only creatures that withold sex if they're mad. Guys do it too (and we will just masturbate a lot in secret, to take the edge off, hahaha!) My ex wife emotionally cheated on me (and it made me fall out of love with her) but I always wanted to boink her anyways, because.. she was so sexy! She was French, and she understood male sexuality very well (she let me do it pretty much whenever I wanted) and when she wasn't in the mood, we got creative.. I learned she loved watching lesbian porn to get in the mood, and that worked well because.. I like it too!
By the way, What specifically (or loosely) does this has to do with ADHD?? Losing lust/ attraction for another is a very common problem, because long term romantic relationships are (arguably) unnatural. Attraction (for average guys) starts simple but then becomes more complex with time. Basically, if we think someone is physically sexy, we want them immediately. Then, (after we get to know them), we must continue to need them to keep the flame alive. This can easily be hampered by some kind of betrayal (emotional), or by something which causes him to feel disrespected / unappreciated. Not accusing the OP of this, but.. if there is something under the rug, it might be worth uncovering! On the other side of the healing process could be a rainbow of sex which leads to a pot of orgasmic gold!!
I am going to make a request that folks move onto a different thread at this point, and focus more on ADHD-impacted relationship issues, rather than gender wars.
Just wanted to say that I understand
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
This was exactly my marriage. For the final 10 years, we had no sex at all and prior to that it was once or twice (max) per year and only because he felt guilty, which didn't feel great. Like you, it was gone all at once. We didn't ever have a lot, but an amount that made us both happy at first. My husband was also embarrassed but refused to seek help. I don't think he cared to get help because he was happy never being intimate and I was the only one suffering. I don't know if this is your husband, but I found out mine was addicted to porn, which he hid very well for a long time.
I just want you to know that I have gone through that whole range of emotions. I felt undesirable and terrible about myself for years. It is NOT YOU. It's ALL HIM. You are wonderful and desirable and this is fully his problem that he has made your problem by not meeting you anywhere near middle ground. I don't know if you'll be able to go on like this forever, but I do know the change must come from him, and it doesn't sound like he's willing. I hope you can find peace with it and enjoy the other forms affection since you're choosing to stay with him. Just know that you're not alone and a lot of non-ADHD partners report similar experiences. Maybe therapy would help so you can talk to someone about it and regain your much-deserved self-esteem.
What is his reason?
Submitted by BurnedOutLady on
I am curious to know what he says is the problem for him. My ADHD spouse is the opposite, he wants sex all the time and I am the one too exhausted and stressed and angry and scared to feel that energy. Also I'm going through menopause, but I think my stress and sadness is the real problem with my total lack of sexual drive.
My own experience too
Submitted by nefun76 on
Mine wanted daily sex and bcos of his acute selfishness and stinginess my desire for him waned . I was also too exhausted bcos he did nothing for me or the kids , he just wanted his own needs met. I need emotional and physical security to be sexually attracted to him and he lacked any form of capacity. I was more of his mum caring and picking up after him than a wife . He was a taker not a giver . He claimed I rejected him and I emasculated him bcos of the lack of sex but he's not emotionally mature to see where the real problem lies
Totally feel your pain
Submitted by Amducious on
It was like you had dipped into my life and wrote that post, it was a conversation one day that went "I don't want sex anymore", plus your rubbish in bed. Then the kicker was that I showed i was upset and it had affected me... I was in the wrong because I was now guilt tripping her. If I mentioned sex or how the lack of intimacy was affecting my self esteem, me not feeling close to her and like I wasn't wanted or desirable... I was pestering her about sex. Something I would never do, even though we are married I never expected or felt like it was my partners duty. The whole thing has left me feeling alone, undesirable, unattractive, a failure and not like a real man. I have sat down and opened my heart up to her about how it makes me feel, that I don't need sex but need her to be present and work through things together. Their are lots of couples who are in sexless marriages, but their relationship evolves and grows... you become closer and find that intimacy in other ways that brings you both closer... but its like I am talking to a brick wall. No response, no input and when asked how she feels... its a case of "I don't know what you want me to say. Its like she has dropped a bomb... everything has exploded and people have been hurt... but the blast didn't affect her and as such its not her problem but mine to deal with.
Feeling of being undesirable
Submitted by nefun76 on
Your experience is exactly what my ADHD ex- husband complained of - feeling unwanted or undesirable and not feeling like a man. There is always a root cause and for me I was not a priority to him. He only wanted 2 things from the marriage- sex and for me to support his business endeavors, he always telling everyone I was very brilliant . He didn't "see" me. He was selfish and stingy to me , I could not even borrow his car or laptop. He bought things only for himself not even the kids . He still expected me to bottle all these emotions and be sexually available to him .
as a dude...
Submitted by MATTHD on
First of all, i'm sorry for your pain. that's tough to feel unwanted. It's probably very common in long relationships.
just a suggestion, have you ever tried....not asking? just seduce? maybe play hard to get? forgetting the labels and blaming him.....you can't control him, but you can control your own behavior.
it's widely known that most men (including myself) are very visual. We are stimulated differently. If you haven't, have you tried wearing something seductive (not much) and let him be the one to pursue? Given that your husband has ADHD, it might be even more prescient in that he is even more drawn towards novelty and new shiny things.
A bit about me: I often wished my ex-wife would just dress up in lingerie i bought her, or would just wear a short skirt instead of black shapeless leggings. In her mind, and apparently a lot of women I've met, this kind of playful objectification is shunned as being misogynistic etc. I understand the feeling of wanting to be totally seen and heard as an entire sentient being, but sometimes, at least for me, it's gotta be purely animalistic. I'm not suggesting that this is going on with you at all, but I feel like the reticence to acknowledge this about male sexuality is part of a broader power struggle where each party is waiting to have their needs served first. Perhaps this is just in my own marriage, so i apologize for the generalization if it seems that way.
Her ADHD played a role- she'd say impulsive hurtful things that slowly destroyed me and led me to seek other women. She is a gorgeous woman but dressed like a hobo and acted like a needy child. I hated it. I asked over and over for her to give me space and dress sexy so I could feel like a man and conquer; at least some of the time. She would leave the house without makeup or putting in any effort and actually verbalize, "oh it's just you -- it doesn't matter." She literally cared more about what random people thought of her than she did about my feelings or our own sex life. Or regarding having sex -- "Ok let's go to the bedroom to get this over with so we can do something fun."
Men are, among other things, driven toward novelty and conquest. Show him something new and tease the shit out of him? This might get some flack, but can we be adults here please and just know i'm trying to help...... Let's put it this way.... I've never in my life heard of a guy turning down a BJ. I actually don't think it's humanly possible! that could very well get things going....
another option- there are legit sex therapists out there that deal with this all the time....
Good luck!
ok
Submitted by moghe78 on
I want you to understand how deeply unhelpful your response was. Turning his ADHD sex issues back onto me because maybe I'm just not being sexy enough? No. Please don't do this to another person. Think I'd be here, howling my incredibly personal pain to strangers, if seduction, lingerie, etc. hadn't stopped working years ago? Man, I went light years beyond all of that. "Hard to get" is what got me nearly 1.5 years of no sex. Also: you have now heard of a guy who refused a BJ. I understand you're speaking "as a dude", but clearly not a dude with ADHD-related sexual issues, which is the thing that makes all the difference here. He doesn't have "normal" sexual responses to stimuli anymore like you clearly do. That's the whole point. I'm trying my best to rein this in, because obviously you think you're being helpful...but you're just not. Your advice is solid for guys who DON'T have these issues. The one good piece of advice you gave was about sex therapists--if only he'd go with me.
Completely unhelpful comment
Submitted by swampyankee on
I just wanted to come on here and also chime in to say that this comment was unhelpful.
I also found your remarks to be pretty sexist. You need women to dress up in clothes that are uncomfortable to wear to be attracted to them? You need women to wear make up to be attractive enough for you? I suppose you also need them to get boob jobs and keep their weight down and their hair long. You think women don't know what men have been conditioned to expect for sex? We know. And even when it goes against our very being, and in the end, it leaves us feeling humiliated and used, yes, we have tried it.
Oh....and now you've heard of TWO men who have refused a BJ.
YES
Submitted by MATTHD on
I'm offering the idea that these issues aren't the result or sole result of ADHD, and thus, there's something the OP could try, if she hadn't already, to help her situation. I was in that same situation (reciprocally), and also faced an impossible idea with accepting that people with ADHD simply are who they are and that it was on me to change around it. I couldn't but feel I could have done better in retrospect. I regret not taking on EVEN MORE responsibility in the face of someone who I loved who was technically disabled. I don't want the same same for you, the OP, or anyone else out there; to look back and realize that they could have done one or two things differently before losing their partner forever -- especially for the sake of pride.
I offered suggestions; take or leave them. My point wasn't about weight, makeup, or clothes. The point is EFFORT. It's a relationship. Men aren't conditioned to want women who look fertile and healthy. It's biology. A woman or man who doesn't take care of themselves; for their own sake or that of the relationship, is objectively less attractive.
Included in the article is the idea of "RSD", or rejection sensitivity dysphoria -- I would assume that if the OP or yourself treated your man with the type of shaming tactics that you've resorted to with me upon a suggestion to help, then it would make sense that the guy would probably also not feel emotionally safe enough for intimacy.
Why are you assuming we are
Submitted by swampyankee on
Why are you assuming we are not taking care of ourselves and that we are not objectively attractive?
this:
Submitted by MATTHD on
based on what you wrote: "I suppose you also need them to get boob jobs and keep their weight down and their hair long"
yes, both men and women are attracted to those who take care of themselves; part of that is keeping their weight down. Attraction isn't a choice.
I am sorry for you, MATTHD,
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
I am sorry (edited, personal attack) that you are only attracted to people who "take care of themselves by keeping their weight down." Fortunately, most people, women and men, realize that physical appearance, including weight, is only a small part of what makes humans appealing to other humans. I suggest that you not generalize your (edited) outlook to everyone else.
Thank you PoisonIvy!
Submitted by sickandtired on
Women of all shapes and sizes have experienced sexual abandonment. I am so sick of men blaming women for THEIR sexual neglect or THEIR cheating! After finding out that my first husband was a serial cheater, a friend of mine (a male) said I should dress and behave sexier to "fight for my man!" I got a divorce and dumped that friend too.
ok
Submitted by MATTHD on
I mentioned that if the OP walked away from the marriage, she would know that she had tried everything within her power to save the marriage -- that's all. If it happens that means she hasn't yet tried dressing sexier, playing hard to get, etc. etc, then okay, don't do it.
A therapist once told me, "A relationship isn't 50/50, it's 100/100" i.e. each party does everything they can.
I've been attacked here by 4 women assuming I'm some kind of misogyny monster because I'm willing to acknowledge that men are visual creatures and are attracted to women who put effort into their appearance, and, since someone else suggested it, maintain a healthy weight. This isn't news, and it's not even a gross generalization (a generalization without factual support). It isn't shallow -- it's biology. The fact that you don't accept this fundamental part of men is misandrist. We can't help how we're wired. Men are objectified for a million reasons, but you don't hear me crying about it.
reality
Submitted by MATTHD on
For men, it's not a small part. It's absolutely necessary. Sorry you don't like it. But to your point, it's insufficient. We still need a real connection, trust, respect, etc.
Please
Submitted by Swedish coast on
Sorry, I agree with others above that your initial comment comes across as insensitive.
I've generally found that women don't need to do anything at all to inspire male libido. If anything, we need to fight it off to be comfortable. If in a relationship sex doesn't work, I'd assume it's because of dysfunction or difficult emotions.
Don't tell a troubled person she should try harder to be sexy. Please. It's insulting.
"keeping weight down" vs. "maintaining a healthy weight"
Submitted by swampyankee on
If you require a woman to dress up for you and to wear make up in order to be attracted to her, my assumption is that what you mean by "healthy weight" is "unnaturally thin."
Keeping your hair long, getting a boob job, wearing uncomfortable (i.e. "sexy") clothes and making sure you don't eat enough food to maintain yourself are the cultural norm we all strive for as women because we're constantly told by people like you that's how it is.
None of those equal "taking care of ourselves." ALL of those are only for the man.
If you've ever been told that you need to lose weight by a loved one when you are 5'4" and 120 pounds, or that you might look prettier with some lipstick, you might know what we are talking about.
If you've never experienced that, you might want to keep your opinions about other women's sexual issues with their partners to yourself.
I wonder
Submitted by adhd32 on
What standards does this man hold himself to in order to be physically attractive to his spouse? Clearly he expects a woman to be a certain way physically, what is he offering? Daily shower and ironed clothing done by himself, great hair and beard grooming, works out, regular dental visits, clean fingernails, polished shoes? Helpful and available? Complimentary?
Not about men's conditioning
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I believe the point isn't about whether men - or anyone - finds certain people more attractive than others. The point being made is that WOMEN have been told (conditioned, to use your word) for many years (by men, media, and others) that it's their job to be attractive to attract a man and that if a woman fails (more accurately decides not to) expend the effort (or chooses something more appropriate to her own life) then she isn't trying hard enough, or isn't good enough. Women are tired of having others define what is good enough or right for them and how they should behave. (If you haven't seen the Barbie movie yet, part of the reason it is so popular is that there is a monologue in it about how women should be X but not too much X; Y but not too much Y; A but not too much A...many women resent having to traverse the mixed expectations our society provides about who they 'can/should' be.)
You've made your point here - that for you, visuals matter. And the women who've responded to you have made their own points - that this line of thinking, while true for you, is part of a larger narrative for them that is painful and, yes, misogynistic. They want to define how they are in the world, including sexually. You will likely have a better sex life with someone who agrees that the visual is important to you (and perhaps to them) and they will likely have a better sex life with someone who isn't so focused on that idea. Not because they aren't sexy as shit, but because they are not interested in that particular aspect.
What has been missed in this conversation in my opinion is that ALL of you are struggling with the same things - unhealthy relationships in which there is an imbalance between how much sex each partner wants or, perhaps, is willing to participate in. (A note on that - I often find that in low and no sex marriages both partners actually WANT more sex, but cannot find a way to make the relationship feel healthy enough to both partners to make that happen comfortably.). That absence of desired sex is very, very painful for men AND women, with and without ADHD. We join with our partners because we wish to feel loved, and rejection is the opposite of that.
I also did note your off the cuff comment that because your wife didn't respond to your needs that you found it elsewhere. That's concerning to me as it blames your wife for your decision to do whatever that means (cheat with someone else? Use porn? Try online sex? Phone sex?). The decision that each person makes is their own, and only their own. Counseling represents another option to stepping out of the marriage, if that's what you did. Self-reflection. Listening to what your partner wants and responding to that. So...as incredibly frustrating as it is to be with a partner who is not as sexually motivated as you are, I encourage you to, at a minimum, take responsibility for your own choices in how to respond to that.
thank you
Submitted by MATTHD on
Thanks for chiming in, Melissa....
I like your framing about the lack of reciprocity and sexual desire (i think you're right). I also think we need to zoom out further. The question I'm wondering is: If "helpful hints" are encouraged, then should we either,
1. Support someone's feelings without question because we want them to immediately feel better ("IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. IT'S ALL HIM") --- of course, while this is well-intentioned, this is a knee-jerk supportive gesture that lacks any information to make that assessment, or,
2. Make gentle suggestions that might be uncomfortable in hopes that the person learns something and maybe saves their relationship.
To me, there's WAY more value in the long-term #2. The act of blaming the ex, applying labels, and "ra-ra it's not your fault girl!" has it's value, but it's short-sighted and possibly quite damaging. I have a hard time enabling that kind of behavior. The OP's responses and the critique of my suggestions were far more elucidating than the original post.
My ex-wife (a relationship of 15 years) and I went to 4 couples counselors over the years. Our last therapist believed that ADHD was fundamentally making things impossible, including as it related to sex: The bedroom was always a mess, dog shit all over the bathroom, trust was gone (broken promises), the infamous parent-child dynamic (i'm not a pedophile so i'm not attracted to infantile behavior), checking out of sexual connection, chronic lying, no planning for sex (what's a plan!?) , etc. In the end, we were barely able to be in the same room. Any time the ADHD fidgets or interruptions were present, I was triggered. I still have an over-stimulated nervous system and am not sure I'll ever heal. (one might call it PTSD and i'm open to suggestions on how to heal as this may be a pervasive issue with ADHD partners)
As for me, since you asked, I did not cheat. Actually, my wife did -- years prior, but I tried to move past it (i never really did). What I did say, was, "led me to seek other women", which in my case, meant that I was so frustrated and emasculated that I began pushing to experiment with an open relationship. She had led me to believe that this was in the cards at an earlier time (pretending she was bisexual and getting another woman's phone #), and I became increasingly resentful when she took it off the table. In retrospect, however, my actions were mostly a result of the deteriorated bond. It was a mistake on my part that I deeply regret. I was a different person then, and if I knew then what I know now, things would be very different. I possibly would have separated sooner rather than blow it up and hurt her. I burden myself with responsibility for my actions and replay them in my head constantly.
As it relates to the male-female dynamic: PART of that relationship deterioration I experienced was what I mentioned earlier: lack of effort, respect, and consideration of each others' sexual needs. This is where my "insensitive" suggestions come from to the OP. The failure to accept that men and women are fundamentally different from each other was part of huge amounts of conflict between my ex and me. it's part of the same power struggle I'm seeing elucidated here; each party wants their needs met first and will play victim to manipulate their partner into acquiescence. "I shouldn't have to care about the way I look! I'm perfect the way I am! I shouldn't have to try harder! I define what other people find attractive about me!" It's infantile, and am also guilty of this in different ways. I wish I had done better and was, despite learning about Imago Therapy, Gottmans, Esther Perel, ADHD, female desire/biology/cycles, 12-step, years of therapy and meditation, etc. etc, I failed.
Because of my own efforts in trying to save my own relationship, I am frankly aghast at some of the comments here that are so void of accountability and reality as to make me think that this entire forum is just a vehicle by which women look to find a label to blame their failed relationships (ADHD).
Men are more visual. Our brains are literally wired that way and these preferences are reflected in the scientific literature. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/
That doesn't mean we like skinny women, per se, but we DO like women who take of themselves (and vice-versa!) When a man commits to a monogamous relationship and the woman "let's herself go", it's actually quite painful for us, and feels like we're taken for granted, held hostage, and bait-and-switched. Moreover, it's hard to love someone who doesn't love themselves.
There are anecdotal outliers of course; specifically, there are sick men attracted to obese women, for example -- they go to special events and commiserate about their kink. They get pleasure in keeping their wives fat and controlling their food intake.
The unwillingness to accept men as they are, and instead, try to shame them into the mold that best suits you is vehemently sexist. If nothing else, it's delusional. But, as we know, "People believe what they want to believe."
(link to Daily Mail article removed - posting rules)
None of you need to like it, but I'm not going to be bullied into saying or even considering things that are untrue because it's difficult for others to accept. Life isn't fair. Life is painful. I believe It's better to accept that and subsequently work towards making changes than to fabricate a reality-by-consensus which is what's going on here. If ya'll continue to fight for your own shortcomings at the expense of your own health, your relationship health, and the example you set for your children, then by all means.... keep doing what you're doing.
If the tables were turned and my partner was no longer aroused by me, I could do what I'm seeing here, but turn it around: I could blame women for their innate biological mate-selection criteria (finding a strong, competent, healthy, provider) and shame women by calling them gold-diggers, play the victim, blame society, blame ADHD, call women heightists, elitists, talk about alimony payements, accuse them of being disrespectful "woman-splainers!" and misandrists, and find a bunch of other men who will agree with me to shame and blame women on a forum..... OR look in the mirror: Work harder, make more money, get in shape, learn my partner's love language, learn non-violent communication --- and this would not just be for my partner--- I would also be benefiting myself, my family, and society at large.
Lastly, I get a lot of value from reading these posts as they are stark reminders not to underestimate the kind of damage I was taking in an ADHD-riddled union. I often forget just how toxic the relationship was when I miss my ex. But, that value is being undermined by the grotesque level of unaccountability here. It makes me wonder if I'm commiserating with a bunch of professional victims, and I personally do not want to be that person.
I will no longer be responding to this subject unless there are questions out of true curiosity and an effort to learn and push the conversation forward. I'm especially interested in how to recover from the damage in an ADHD relationship.
Cultural conditioning
Submitted by swampyankee on
Both men and women are conditioned by their culture in many ways. Sexual expectations are just one of them.
I found these particular comments to be telling because in these particular comments, there was a certain expectation that the woman had to do all the work to be "attractive", not the man. Not only that, but the commenter seemed to feel entitled to explain the "male perspective" as though he was a) representative of all men and b) that we women didn't already know what the typical male hyped up expectation was.
This kind of comment has nothing to do with ADHD, and doesn't belong in this forum.
very unhelpful
Submitted by Exhausting on
Your response was not helpful.
I'm sorry you found my
Submitted by MATTHD on
I'm sorry you found my comments unhelpful. As I wrote, they were just suggestions and my own personal experience. My apologies as it seems you were just looking to vent and not look for solutions or anything that you could do differently.
Nonetheless, the science seems to indicate that men with ADHD maintain their libido on par with someone without ADHD.
(Link deleted - against posting rules)
"In a 2020 studyTrusted Source with 129 adults, females with ADHD reported significantly lower sexual desire, arousal, orgasms, and overall satisfaction than females without ADHD."
This could be due to symptoms such as distraction and the inability to focus on their bodies during sexual activities.
Males with ADHD reported similar sexual desire as males without ADHD but lower orgasms, erectile function, and overall sexual satisfaction."
I'm leaving this forum
Submitted by moghe78 on
That same article you referenced has a whole paragraph on Hyposexuality and ADHD.
I'm leaving this forum because of you, and I'm never coming back. I don't need to be trolled on something that's already making my life miserable.
moghe78
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
I feel so badly for you, and what you've been through.
Coming to this forum and sharing your experiences took courage.
I hear you moghe78 - misplaced responsbility
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I tried it ALL with my ADHD husband before giving up and enduring the 10 years of no intimacy before our divorce. In fact, I feel embarrassed and degraded in retrospect by what I was willing to do just to try and rekindle anything (e.g. recreating what he was watching in porn even though it wasn't for me in the least). Of course, that was after approaching softly regarding our sex life, dressing up, playing hard to get, etc., etc. You name it... if I could control it, I tried it. None of it worked anyway and I wish I had steadily focused on keeping the conversation in the right place: HIS ADHD, HIS porn addiction (once I discovered it), HIS erectile dysfunction. So concerned with his feelings and ego I was that I surrendered my needs and feelings entirely.
I'm sure it's well intended by the poster to suggest that you could try something new or different, but that's thing about ADHD - as the "non" partners, it's perpetually on us to do the changing, the solving, the trying and that is wholly wrong. Responsibility to address an issue must be placed on the person with the issue. As the supporting partner, we can then play our part to support.
I'm sorry. I know how much this hurts firsthand.
Thank you
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Thanks for being so open, and respectful.
hmm
Submitted by trubamboo on
I feel for you. What happened at 5 years? There must be some reason for the "Poof"? You specifically didn't ask for advice- why not? Is it possible he's mad about something that happened (or didn't happen?) which you are not factoring in here? As a guy, I can tell you that woman are not the only creatures that withold sex if they're mad. Guys do it too (and we will just masturbate a lot in secret, to take the edge off, hahaha!) My ex wife emotionally cheated on me (and it made me fall out of love with her) but I always wanted to boink her anyways, because.. she was so sexy! She was French, and she understood male sexuality very well (she let me do it pretty much whenever I wanted) and when she wasn't in the mood, we got creative.. I learned she loved watching lesbian porn to get in the mood, and that worked well because.. I like it too!
By the way, What specifically (or loosely) does this has to do with ADHD?? Losing lust/ attraction for another is a very common problem, because long term romantic relationships are (arguably) unnatural. Attraction (for average guys) starts simple but then becomes more complex with time. Basically, if we think someone is physically sexy, we want them immediately. Then, (after we get to know them), we must continue to need them to keep the flame alive. This can easily be hampered by some kind of betrayal (emotional), or by something which causes him to feel disrespected / unappreciated. Not accusing the OP of this, but.. if there is something under the rug, it might be worth uncovering! On the other side of the healing process could be a rainbow of sex which leads to a pot of orgasmic gold!!
Thanks for helping me with my ADHD!
Disrespectful
Submitted by Swedish coast on
(edited - personal attack) I strongly dislike this. Please try to behave respectfully.
Agreed.
Submitted by AdeleS6845 on
Yikes, indeed.
Agreed.
Submitted by Mrs. Lollygag on
Agreed.
thanks
Submitted by MATTHD on
Thank you for your insight and vulnerability, Mr. Bamboo. Unfortunately, it falls on deaf ears as some of these people have an axe to grind.
Request
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
I am going to make a request that folks move onto a different thread at this point, and focus more on ADHD-impacted relationship issues, rather than gender wars.
Thanks so much!
Melissa