For most of my marriage I gave sex to my H as a duty, as a commandment, as a prayer, as a hope in the future that if I gave what he needed and wanted, that eventually our family would complete the vision I had about marriage. That H would come to appreciate and honor our marriage in love. What happened is this, that he was manipulative and his words were cutting and rash and sarcastic and facetious veiled in humor. Then when he got horny he would say I HAD to give him what he needed because men have urges that if a wife does not give him sex, it would be her fault if he got his needs met elsewhere. He thought it was funny to say to me, " Absence makes the heart "wander"" just before he went out of town....meaning that I MUST give him sex to keep him satisfied and that it would be my fault if he was not true to our marriage out of town for a week. So I dutifully gave him what he wanted for the sake of the family. During the act, it would be like he was faking, "acting", like a loving mate, over-solicitous and unlike his usual avoidant self. But before and after and daily, he was not committed to our family's well being and emotional health but rather committed to his own personal pleasure and potency. His M.O. was to eke by, to "try to get away with" and to fly under the radar hoping no one saw him goofing off and laughing at the schmucks who worried about finances and commitments. So, when I had sex with him, I felt alone. It was icky. In our marriage, I felt alone. I was suspicious and I cried a lot for decades of marriage. I blamed myself and he blamed me. I always seemed to be crying and he always seemed to be giggling.
Growing up means to accept the good and the bad. Growing up means to not lie to yourself. And I find this very hard to not lie to myself and to not hide from the truth around me. So what does it look like to be a grown up in a holy union with someone who does not respect the union or me? This is what I am working on.
Anyone have descriptions of a grown up successfully in a holy union with a defiant teenager? Because, as I accept H is a entitled, manipulative teenager, I accept that I have been a weak, meek, obedient naive girl lacking in backbone, lacking in the voice and skills of a strong leader that my children (and I myself) could count on to make things safe and where common sense and strong family culture thrives. I am ashamed of my arrested development but am determined to grow up with all the urgency my advanced age burdens me with. I was told by a very helpful counselor that MOST people never "grow up" and that I was ahead of the game already for trying, but I know I have a long way to go. I am putting myself in the company of people who I admire, reading books, listening to audio about and by people I admire and searching out communities where grown-up conversations are the norm. Removing myself from inane foolish trash talk or doomsday robotic recitations masquerading as religion in my head.
I am seeing that lying, cussing, erotism and cheating is seeping into acceptance in our country's culture and I don't want to contribute to the lowering of standards. I want to be strong enough to not obey the flow of this ethical erosion that I sense in my family and in the world. So I am working on finding new strength that I did not display in the past. I always thought fighting was bad. Now I am realizing that to be strong, sometimes you must fight. .....this goes against my upbringing. I am working on this war inside myself so I can stand strong somehow.
Abundant Life....
Submitted by c ur self on
When both spouses recognize where life comes from, and discipline their lives to allow it to mold them...Then your vision of marriage would be fulfilled **Love and Honor**... When that happen's no one remains horny...Because the real Joy of being a part of 2=1 and what a pure bed is suppose to be like would be discovered....And the submitting (sharing) of our bodies would never be a hardship or a lonely place....
"It's so sad to see people live out their whole lives only trusting in their selves...Even though they can't produce one moment of it"...
c
Acceptance and trust
Submitted by jennalemone on
Thanks, C. I needed to hear that. And I am accepting things are the way they are. I have stopped trying to change things. It is more sane to accept things you don't like than to pretend they are different than they really are.
I like the quote:
"It's so sad to see people live out their whole lives only trusting in their selves...Even though they can't produce one moment of it"...
Where it is from?
I guess it's mine....
Submitted by c ur self on
I was typing a reply to ur post....When my 86 year old Father called (he has dementia) and started accusing me of stealing from him (his stuff is all missing he says)....We moved him here, even though he needs to be in the VA or assisted living....He and my brother who doesn't live in this town (of course) decided he is fine to live alone....We moved him into a much smaller 3 bedroom house w/ a nice fenced yard for his Labs...(He is a breeder, and has made those dogs # 1 for many years) a couple of miles from me...He can't drive any more had a couple of wrecks...Near misses!
He has always been a victim minded pouter...He can never just be at peace w/ the whole family...If life isn't his way...OH my, watch out....I could go on, but, I wil spare you...He forgets from one day to the next what we talk about....I've told him a dozen times what closet all the stuff he was asking about is in....But because he can't see it, I guess today his mind decided I have it...LOL...His two spare rooms are just pack w/ furniture and boxes....Packed LOL...
Anyway after I calmed down, and picked my laptop back up, I just deleted everything but that short post I sent you....When I typed that last part....I was just thinking about all the dysfunctional people I've dealt with for several years now....People I love; but; who seem to not understand enough about life and where it comes from to be thankful...It breaks my heart....
But we are told that this life is like a vapor; so I take solace in that...I guess it was my way of reminding myself, and you...When the weight of the world seems to be on our shoulders, not to forget who is actually present w/ us, holding us up....
Good night Sister!
c
So what does this grown-up
Submitted by Libby on
So what does this grown-up thing look like in day to day life? How are your interactions different with your husband? I think for me it would me hardly talking to him at all. Living my own life. That seems so lonely and disconnected...
Real Life Scenario
Submitted by phatmama on
I guess it looks like me doing anything that requires attention to time and detail, speaking to him without a pissy hostile tone, and being realistic about what he is good at and what he isn't. For example, this week he was home and he wanted to let me sleep in, so he got up to get our 9 year old on the bus. I actually woke up enough to start to panic, and my first conscious thought of the day was " he needs to brush her hair and make sure she gets her ADHD medicine". I started to get up to remind him, but decided that I would let him do this and let the chips fall where they may. He got her on the bus, I got up at 9:00 instead of 6:45, and she brushed her own hair but the ADHD medicine did not happen. If I were managing, it would have gone off without a hitch and all the i's dotted and t's crossed, but, hey, I really appreciated the considerate gesture (and the sleep!!!) and ultimately it was a non-issue. No one ever died from missing a dose of Daytrana. That is one example. Another is that he went to his workshop an hour and a half away yesterday. We had previously agreed that he would be home by midnight at the latest. He called around dinner time to tell me he wouldn't make it by "curfew" (LOL) because he wasn't leaving until the entire second floor of the building was cleared out (and this is a warehouse sized building.) Since that was clearly important to him, I thanked him for calling and told him I wouldn't wait up. He does not work in normal patterns, like work for a while, eat, work some more, take a break, work some more, eat again, etc.... He works like a lunatic for as much as 14 hours straight with no breaks and will not stop until the job is done. Everyone around him is dropping like flies and he can't stop. If he is made to stop (like by me), it isn't pretty. He needs to work that way. For him to stop and call me was huge. Just huge. Another thing is driving separately. Instead of having a screaming match every time we leave the house, I will give updates and count down. If he is ready, we go together. If he isn't, I leave him and we meet up when he arrives. I guess another example is the napping. I don't know if anyone else's ADD'er does this, but mine will work himself into a state of total exhaustion and then drop into these coma-naps for days on end. I used to get so furious it was unreal. I would make snide remarks about wearing himself out for everyone else and then being checked out when it was family time. Or I would says mean things to the kids like "no, we can't go to the lake because your father is crashed on the couch again". Now, I get that this is his cycle, and he is in his fifties and also, it is just none of my damned business if he wants to sleep. So, I let him alone, will usually even cover him with a blanket and pull the blinds and just let him be. Acceptance is huge. In return, he has been asking for quality time with me (my love language) instead of checking out even when he is awake. We are going out to a little restaurant bar for scotch on the rocks (him) and amaretto sours (me) and we talk with no distractions or chaos. For so many years, there was too much hostility for us to even want that, so this is pretty amazing. I also realize what conversations need to stay off limits. He is not as good at this. There are things I just won't discuss and if he brings them up, I redirect. I know we do not have the relationship skills to walk across certain minefields without blowing up, so I stay on the edge of the field where it is safe. But, I am surprised how much more connected we are than I thought we ever could be again. I have had to be really honest about how I am coming across and be willing to change. In return, he has been very happy to take steps as well. I am glad we are here before we ended up permanently estranged. It was certainly headed there. A therapist we saw once said two things that stuck with me. The first was "I don't know why you two didn't divorce a long time ago" and the second was "the only hope for this marriage is to love each other with agape love". Although I "heard" her with my ears, I didn't "get it". I was so stuck on getting what I wanted, I had long ago quit asking what he needed. Agape love says "what can I do for you" whereas erotic love says "what can you do for me". The difference is huge and I think we are trying to live in that agape space for each other more every day and it is healing the wounds that we have inflicted on our marriage over 21 years. And just so you know I am not perfect and he is not perfect and we are not perfect, I will admit to how fast it goes South when old triggers are pulled. Earlier this week, I had people coming over and wasn't really ready for that. Our vacuum cleaner blew a belt three weeks ago and he still hasn't picked one up. I went to work and made it clear that I needed the floor swept with the shop vac or something by the time I got home if I was going to be ready on time for the kids coming over. I walked in at 4:00 and it was still gross. He had been working at his desk all day and not even thought of the floor. Although I didn't SAY anything nasty, my very expressive face said it all. I was mad, I was frazzled, I was hostile. He took one look at my face and it was on. He did vacuum the floor, but was furious and didn't speak to me for the rest of the night. I made him feel degraded and worthless with my look. So, I got the floor swept anyway, but with a side of marital unhappiness I would have preferred to avoid. If I could do it over, I would have just not gave him the look, because, really, what purpose did it serve? Did it give me anything I needed to have or did it take something away? I am human and I am emotional and I am not beating myself up for it, but it is clear that I have much more control over things than I ever imagined just by 1. acceptance and 2. being nice. I am lucky that he has responded and is excited to meet me halfway AS MUCH AS HE CAN. I realize not every spouse will do that.
Acceptance!!
Submitted by jennalemone on
More and more I am gettting that acceptance is the total key to this. Yes, sometimes I have to say to myself and to others if they ask about it...."yes, we are odd".. Like when we arrive in separate cars because of the way you mention...we do that too....I just accept that this is the way it goes. This, at least, makes it better for my sense of well being than to be fuming because we are late, or he was raging on the way in, or so much more chaos that sometimes happened because I thought we should ride together and do things together. It is just not going to happen the way I could envision it. It is what it is. Sometimes we are odd because we are accommodating for ADD (and some immaturity). But I am done being angry and frustrated!!!! We are on the same journey, phatmama.
A lot of what you talk about
Submitted by Libby on
A lot of what you talk about I would do but I know my children would be hurt by my actions. They from the outside see our difficulties as fighting. It really isn' fighting as much as lots of disappointment on my part. They would be upset if I showed up in a separate vehicle. Maybe I will start another thread about dealing with adult children....
always have a back up plan
Submitted by c ur self on
Learning acceptance really helps us to not attach negative emotion when they let us down....My wife use to catch my ire when she wouldn't keep her word to me about something....I would just tell her stuff like...Oh, my life doesn't matter? Right?....LOL...No more....Just because she loves to make plans and get me to agree to them....Then want get out of bed or show up at home on time...I do not attach emotion to that....I expect it....And just go on w/ my life....Happened today....She planned for us to go bike riding at 10:30....At 1:15 I went alone....:)
Some people's word doesn't mean much....I was judging her based on how I feel about keeping my word....I will break my neck to try and keep my word....Her not so much:)
So always move on w/ your life w/o emotion...Life is to short to be angry about someone's life style....Besides when she's a no show, and she sees me unaffected, that puts her in another gear....She had rather me fuss and still hang around and waste my time waiting....No if your word isn't any good, you should be uncomfortable.....If it was just a friend doing me that way, I would just move away from trusting them...But since it's my spouse, I've got to show Grace, (acceptance) But, I do not have to enable it.....
c
Very lonely
Submitted by GoingCrazyADHDx2 on
It is very lonely. IveI always been a person to enjoy alone time but to be completely and utterly ignored and not heard... Well isn't easy to say the least.
Lonely
Submitted by Shell10 on
I used to be ignored by sleep or the television. He would fall asleep in, "the chair" after dinner. Sleep for 3 hours ,while I would attend to business. When I would be tired and ready for sleep, he would wake up and want attention. It doesn't work that way. So yes...it was a lonely existence. We are no longer together.