I’ve posted here before, but only a couple of times. My wife has ADD. We’ve been married for 20 years and we battled her ADD ever since. As we get older, she’s 68 and I’m 70, her ADD is getting much worse, as well as her denial, forgetfulness, inattention, lack of compassion, messy ness, etc. I owned my consulting business before we married and she gladly came into the business and took over the accounting. Very, very often she simply cannot get herself going. Every year we have to apply for an extension on submitting our taxes because she simply won’t get the information and documents sent to our CPA. To make matters worse, she always promises to go to a counselor, but never carries through with her promises. All this, and much more, has depleted my love for her. Don’t get me wrong, I have compassion for her, but don’t know how to live with her any longer. I don’t know what to do or how to make her get help. I vowed to stay with her for “better or worse”, and I will, but we are like to separate people living in the same house. HELP!
What to Do?
Submitted by patlaap on 10/19/2019.
Patlaap
Submitted by Brindle on
I'm really sorry for all the frustration and anger you're going through. Depending on someone who isn't dependable is a recipe for unhappiness. But you feel like , what can you do??? If you go around her or over her and have someone else do it, you risk a big scene and so much anger. And you just want the taxes done on time, please. You don't want it to be a personal thing. But because of what you're dealing with... it becomes a personal thing.
As for her ADD getting worse, aging does that to her. First she had menopause to deal with, which makes ADD worse. Then she got through that, but then as we age, everyone's brains become lower in the same brain chemicals she's already deficient in, so it got worse again.
I'm really so very sorry about the roommates situation. So many of us here really get where you are. I wish there was something I could say or do to give you that magic bullet to make her just do the things she says she will do, to fix the things that damage the marriage, etc.
I've started seeing a counselor for my own sake. Is that something you've tried? I felt a little silly at first, but it's been a really good thing for me. I go as often as I need to. Sometimes, it's once a month. Sometimes it's twice. If I felt I needed a weekly appointment, I'd go. That's how much it has helped. I don't talk about my feelings all the time. She is good about giving me possible solutions. They may or may not work but it gives me something to try.
I hope you can find some sort of boundary for the work situation. What kind of fallout will there be, if you gave her a boundary, and then followed through on it? Do you feel you must avoid her reaction at all costs because it's too uncomfortable for you? Or are you ok with whatever her reaction might be? I find that I drew back out of a sort of fear/ uncomfortableness about my husband's reactions to things. When I thought, "what's the worst that will happen," I realized that the worst is that he'd yell at me and be angry with me. And I thought, "why am I so avoidant of that conflict? Why do I think I can't handle him being upset?" And it helped me to draw those boundaries, which honestly, drawing boundaries hadn't really occurred to me before. I'm not sure why... but my natural posture in the relationship has been that I can't do anything. I know I can't force him to do anything, but I can control my end, and I needed to take some steps to actually control my end.
Now, that might not be helpful to you. I don't know. But in case any of it resonates with you, I shared it. There's another man on here who goes by "c ur self" and he is big on drawing boundaries with his wife. I hope he will respond and give you his thoughts.
Boundaries
Submitted by patlaap on
Thank you Brin, I appreciate your reply. Yes, my had been seeing a counselor but stopped going and then her counselor retired. When she was going she was much better. I've tried to encourage her to find another counselor and she says she will, but simply doesn't follow through. Some weeks she's fine and some not. My solace is working. I'm a consultant and travel quite a bit. She wants me to retire, but 1) I love what I do and 2) I certainly don't want to sit around the house all day every day and become a hermit. We've talked about traveling, but when it gets to planning a trip, she backs out. As for boundaries, I'm not certain what you, and C, mean. I do follow up and make sure the clients are invoiced and, when tax time comes around, push her to send every thing to the CPA. What kind of boundaries could is set?
I see that...
Submitted by Brindle on
I can see that c ur self and Melody answered your boundaries question below, and I cannot improve upon what they said. So I will just clarify something that I suggested.
When I mentioned counseling, I meant for you, patlaap. For you to go and get some understanding and some affirmation from a professional. It has been invaluable to me. Going to counseling by myself has helped me a ton, as well as this site, to keep me grounded in the fact that my feelings and struggles are not in my head and I'm not being a meanie to expect more and better. It's incredibly good for keeping me grounded. I can sometimes get stuck in that trap of feeling like I can't do anything because my husband thinks reality is different than it is. Perhaps a counseling relationship would be helpful to you, too.
Councellor
Submitted by patlaap on
Brin,
yes, I saw the counselor she had been going to, just once. When the counselor told me to leave my wife I decided not to go back. I do love my wife and took a vow to stay with her and I will do that. I have thought about finding another counselor, for me, as I want help coping with this. Regarding taxes, I had told her before that I was going to take over doing them. She always says she'll get the done, and she does, albeit with filing an extension. I do however, follow up on the books to make sure she has invoiced all the clients, on time. She's doing a much better job, but for how long.
Your story is familiar.....
Submitted by c ur self on
My wife is 58 and I'm 62....We married 11 years ago....I was 51....She takes adderall in order to focus at work....For all 11 + years it's been the exact symptoms you've posted here....I'm going to share what I've found out about my wife....And what I'm attempting to do about it...Maybe it can help you....
Your story about her gladly coming into the business and taking over the accounting....Is the nature of most wives who wants to be helpful and supportive...Mine would have done the same probably...It takes three things for this to work....And your wife and mine, and many more just like them, have two of the three....They have the heart (love and desire), they have the intelligence, but, their failings will always be in their ability to discipline their lives in so many area's.....(The add (the mind) takes over in consistency, in timeliness, & organization)....And because you and I may not suffer with this reality, we are limited in our ability to understand it....So conflict arises as our expectations for what we expect, and what they professed in the beginning to be able to produce, (that leads us to putting our trust in them in the beginning)...But the reality of what is possible for the mind type isn't satisfactory or workable for us....What we expect, and need to happen for things to work well in business, and in our relationship....
The death nail to the above reality is the denial, the refusal to take (or be able to take?) ownership of their behaviors, and what is truly possible with them when it comes to managing life (organization, attentiveness, distraction, timeliness)....The innate desire in most humans, that makes us want to feel good about ourselves, leaves many of us living in a world of Illusion....That's what prompts the denial, the blame, the justification...
This dilemma has keep me up at night, it's caused me to talk to myself, it's caused many many hours of ponder, study, and pray....Asking myself, how do I keep myself in a healthy, and peaceful mental and emotional state, while dealing with day to day life w/ her reality and her denial???
I've not arrived LOL....But, by placing boundaries on myself to accept her reality, (acceptance doesn't mean agreement) and to never trust what she say's, but, always quietly believe what she does... (her actions and behaviors). This has brought us a long way in our quest for a loving and peaceful life together.....I have to limit my focus to being the loving husband she deserves, while always asking myself what is possible in every area of life with her....Boundaries has helped me to stop laying my neck on the chop block....(engaging her, and trusting her to be able to follow through, like she will verbally tell you she can) LOL...My wife's level of add (and denial) is much like my Dad's level of dementia is many way's....There very limited ability to reason....So trying to reason in conversation verbally is fools gold, and will only escalate into arguments, and unhealthy dialog.....
My screen name was the driving force behind my pain 5 or 6 years ago when I found this site.....Denial ALWAYS, takes away the ability to c ourselves...And it ALWAYS, makes verbal communications impossible.....Their is no ability to share or speak into a closed mind of denial.....
So patlaap....Ask yourself, not what you want, or what you expect...But based on her simple reality, ask yourself....What is possible? ....You know, tough love, (don't mother or enable) and boundaries, can help move us along so much better than words....When minds work so differently, smiles and hugs are the best form or communication....Words are only misunderstood much of the time....
Blessings
c
C
Submitted by patlaap on
Thank you c for this very great realization. Can you please explain "boundaries" for me. I have come to realize that I must follow up on whatever she says she will do, especially in our business. However, what I failed to mention in my first post is that she has depression also. This make ADD worse. I travel a lot for business and when I'm gone is when her depression usually starts. Both combined makes her sometimes completely unable to focus or get anything done that requires completion, I.e., preparing taxes for our CPA. I pray every day that God will help her.
thank you,
patlaap
Setting Boundaries.....
Submitted by c ur self on
https://www.google.com/search?q=patrick+doyle+setting+boundaries&oq=Patr...
Boundaries differ from one people group to the other, and from one person to the other....The above interview with Patrick Doyle can offer you much more than I could.....My marriage relationship calls for specific boundaries based on the dysfunction that comes about because of her justification and denial of intrusive living....Simply put, things that are selfish in nature, that does not regard her husband's role or his feelings in many area's.....So things like separate finance's, separate tax's filing, travel and vacations has to be preplanned and the details agreed upon....(I can never assume w/ her, based on my own thinking, that will always end badly) Separate automobiles when she justifies showing up late....I also have placed boundaries on myself to accept her no matter what I think about her life style....In other words live and let live....That helps me keep my emotions in tack (be at peace)....I also (this is a big one for me) attempt to never enable or mother her, so she can suffer the consequence's of her own actions... (attempt to never bale her out, from the choices she demanded to have her way)
I hope you can come up w/ some boundaries that can help you both...
blessings friend...
c
Boundaries for me
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Hey patlaap,
I just wanted to chime in with how I use boundaries. They are very new to me. For me, it is kind of like tough love. I am not good at tough love as I am the first to help someone if I can, so this has been a difficult shift for me. When my husband loses his keys/wallet/phone/glasses (daily), I no longer let myself get swept up in helping him find these things. He ransacks the house and stomps and yells and I used to race around in a panic to help him find the missing article. Now I let him search alone. If that means he doesn't find it, is late, he yells that I am horrible for not helping, etc... so be it. I try to stay calm and remind myself that this is his ADHD that he could manage if he chose to. It is so hard, but it is not as hard as my heart racing and getting behind on my day and taking a long time to calm down because I was so swept up in his emergency. Another boundary: I have a really busy schedule while he does not. His expectation is that I will do his laundry (I did for years). Now that he is not working very much, I let him do his own (I still do mine, our daughter's and the household towels/linens). That means his clothes are not clean. Not organized. Sometimes moldy in the washer because he has forgotten them. He complains but I don't give in because honestly I need that time I used to spend doing his laundry to do everything else I do. There are also conversational boundaries for me now and a few others. While the fallout of drawing a hard line on things was difficult at first, he now realizes what I will and won't do/put up with. For you, a boundary might be something like, "I can't accept that my taxes for my business are late every year and I am handing the accounting back to a CPA/doing it myself." She would be upset, but your problem would be solved and a burden lifted (the stress of being late, the job of reminding and re-reminding). I have found that reminders and pointing out mistakes doesn't work (not that I don't do it sometimes!).
Boundaries protect YOU... from burning out or suffering some of the consequences of your partner's choices/actions/condition.
You mentioned you are separate people living in the same house. I have to say that boundaries certainly haven't brought me and my husband closer, however, I feel a lot more emotionally stable/stronger and it has become slightly easier to navigate living with him/the ADHD.
Nice post Melody....
Submitted by c ur self on
I'm so much like you...Quick to jump up and help...I agree w/ you, it is difficult to watch the person you love flounder around and not help them out.....But based on your excellent post....You have like me (many of us) come to realize boundaries are a must for many reasons....The biggest reason is just what you said about how he views you not baling him out....The sarcasm, the victim comments...People like this show little to no appreciation unless you are constantly baling them out in some way...Instead of a spirit of thankfulness and gratitude for a loving and thoughtful spouse, more times than not you get a victim, who expects to be carried...If you don't force accountability by letting them fail when they refuse to make a priority out of organization, time management etc.,you shouldn't expect any growth...And you should expect to hear how terrible you are for not treating them like you are their mommy.....
I like the one about conversation, it's needed here also....It's not wise (if you want peace that is) to allow yourself to be drug into stressful conversations when all the turmoil and conflict is swirling inside their minds only....Way to often I don't recognize it, and it bites me;)....When we first got married, I could never understand how I could have a wonder day at work, and be at complete peace, and then 60 seconds trying to have a conversation with her, and I was a basket case...LOL...People who refuses self awareness, thinks from a self absorbed mindset, and doesn't listen for understanding, but (in my wife's case) listens to interrupt and point out grammatical errors, it's best to not go there....Most always regret it.....:(
I don't know how many of you listened to the youtube I posted on boundaries...But (I'm going to keep listening to it, I need to memorize it!) it's the best 53 minutes of advice I have ever received when it comes to dealing w/ wife, and setting boundaries....
c
Can you re-post the link, C?
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
I think I didn't have time to watch when you initially posted the video on boundaries, but I would love to bookmark it so I can give it a watch. Would you mind providing the link again here?
It has taken me a long time to get over feeling like a bad person when I don't help. Initially I felt so guilty when I could be helping but made the choice not to. Now I feel strong . :) I hear you about the conversational boundaries. That one was hard to explain and I am still navigating them. For one, sadly, I engage him in conversation significantly less just to avoid those negative outcomes you mentioned. And when I'm in a conversation, I try to be aware of how symptoms are driving his words so that I don't get all worked up (becoming that basket case you mentioned... that was/is very common for me). My daughter and I both note how he "pokes" people with something that he knows will rile them up. Unconsciously, I think he likes to fight (it gives him a dopamine boost). I try very, very hard not to bite when this happens. Your sad face at the end of talking about conversational boundaries made me sad, too. I know what it feels like to want to connect with the person you live with in a meaningful way, but to rarely be able to accomplish that.
I so identify w/ you....
Submitted by c ur self on
https://www.google.com/search?q=patrick+doyle+setting+boundaries&oq=Patr...
This gentleman...Is so on top of things....He say's so much about painful relationships where boundaries are a must to stop (to refuse to be part of) the pain of intrusive living, and speaking.....Everything you have written on this thread is so my life, my feelings, the reality of our relationship... (I bet many readers lives)
It is very difficult to accept we have to install boundaries on ourselves in order to eliminate all the negative interaction we face when we don't.....
Bless you dear lady....
c
PS...He also has several utube video's about relationships....The one on denial is also great.....
Thanks, C
Submitted by Brindle on
I haven't listened yet, but I intend to.
Thanks for the link
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Thank you, c. Really looking forward to this!
Less conversation
Submitted by Brindle on
For one, sadly, I engage him in conversation significantly less just to avoid those negative outcomes you mentioned.
Yes, this is my house, too. I keep the conversation to things he initiates, because it's so much nicer that way.
I also stopped talking to him about my stuff - my happenings, my feelings, stories about our kids, etc, because he looks bored and like he wants outta there. It may be adhd, but after so many years, I just couldn't take the pain it caused. I'd rather say nothing than see his face look like listening to me is so awful. If he could say, "I'm struggling to focus, but this is important that I get to hear what you have to say," and then ask to try again at another time or something... that would be easier. But of course not once has that happened. I'm so tired of not having the feeling that he's even a friend who cares. I don't care how well you don't take things personally, it does take a toll.
This is exactly it, Brin
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Repeatedly feeling unheard, dismissed and ignored takes its toll even when you understand the ADHD brain. I agree. Imagine if he'd ever attempted to understand my natural need to connect as much as I've tried to understand how his brain works! It's a pretty quiet house, but it has been better for me.