Most persons don’t realize this, but the common, or popular, view of “love” involves an element of receiving something. “I love chocolate” really means that “I enjoy getting the experience of the taste of chocolate.” Similarly, “I love you” commonly implies “I enjoy playing with your body,” or “I enjoy believing that you will give me security or protection,” or “I enjoy feeling sexual pleasure with your body” (or “I want to have sexual pleasure with your body.”) As a result, Lacan, in his teachings about love, described the typical act of love as “polymorphous perversion.” [5]
Don’t be put off by the big words. You already know what perversion means. Polymorphous simply means “having many forms.” So this amounts to saying, like the popular song from the 1980s, that we’re looking for love in all the wrong places. That is, we look for satisfaction in all the various titillating parts of the body but never find what is truly sought.
What is “truly sought” is something we all experience as painfully missing from life: some comforting sense of absolute belonging and acceptance. Those who are fortunate get a sense of this feeling as babies, under a parent’s protection, although the feeling is fractured more often than not by ordinary parental empathic failures, and then it is lost entirely as children become older and independent and the awareness of their essential human isolation and mortality sets in. Those who are less fortunate suffer a deeper lack: some parents are emotionally or physically distant and rarely provide any comfort and acceptance to their children; and some parents are outright abusive, leaving their children to languish in an environment of criticism and neglect.
Suffering from the lack of parental acceptance, some people skip from one “partner” to another over the surface of existential pain, like a stone skipping over water. As long as they stay above the surface they’re perfectly happy; but when an affair ends, and they come crashing down, they’re desperate for the next leap, sometimes searching for a new partner even at the funeral for the old one. Yet sooner or later the stone loses vitality, and with a final splunk falls into the depths of tribulation.
Lacan points out that although “love”—that is, in its common, popular sense—is, in essence, a futile chasing after something that doesn’t exist, there is nevertheless a love beyond this “making love,” a love that exists beyond lack and limitation and that involves a sort of ecstasy of being,[6] as a matter of soul,[7] not of the body. The irony is that in the common act of “making love” we think we know what we want, but it turns out to be an illusion, while this other love touches on a real experience of which we know nothing. It’s a mystical sort of thing, as Lacan acknowledges.[8]
Now, although Lacan doesn’t say it this way, the difference between these two kinds of love—common “love” and true love (or real love)—can be conceived of as the difference between receiving and giving.
Note carefully, though, that giving does not refer to the mere sharing of material objects or wealth; it refers to the expression of profound emotional qualities such as patience, forbearance, compassion, understanding, and forgiveness.
This all goes to show that it’s easy enough to “love” those who “love” us: parents who protect us, “partners” who make us feel received, animals who never threaten us. But can we love those who annoy us . . . irritate us . . . obstruct us . . . scorn us . . . hate us? Can we love our enemies? That’s the real test of real love.
And it was out of a true understanding of the difference between common “love” and real love that a man such as St. Francis of Assisi was led—led right to the point, actually—to pray that he might seek “not so much to be loved as to love.”
Since I posted this under resources....I will include the link to this article I read about Love and the different kinds their are. There has been something intangible missing I feel in my wife's capacity to Love ..and when I read the highlighted areas, it finally clicked. while this other love touches on a real experience of which we know nothing. It’s a mystical sort of thing, as Lacan acknowledges.[8]
Yes!! You know Love when you experience it and I do not experience Love from my wife...at all! To her...Love is on the outside and she truly is....looking for Love in all the wrong places and she will never find it there...as it said, because it doesn't exist. She suffers tremendously because of this but.....I am not the person she is looking for to try and fill the void from what she didn't get from her abusive self serving mother who my T feels had a character disorder which I now feel was passed on to my wife in just the way this described. She is truly a victim but that's not excuse now...at age 60. If she has never learned the difference by now....I feel there is no hope in that ever happening and I will remain a "Tool" or conduit for her in trying to get from that...which is not in my power to give. I think in my wife's case...she is truly damaged goods and a right off in the Love department and I feel no Love what so ever...coming from her in the future. I can feel pity and even compassion for her and we have gotten in some heated arguments already about Love when she has accused me of failing her. As I see it now....I have only failed to treat her like an unwanted child with an insatiable need for reassurance and to be "given too" even to the point of patronizing her which normally....most would feel offended ( at least for me? ) which she seems to receive as some kind of validation....while at the same time....scoffs and dismisses any real show of Love that I offer her as if it doesn't exist?
While I can feel many things for someone with challenges and with hope and optimism and giving without any need for anything back....when it's a one way street always...and in terms of respect.....I cannot respect anyone who refuses to try and "fix themselves"...and is dependent on others to try and fill the empty black hole inside them and thinks that's Love? My wife...has no idea what Love is...and thinks in terms of "ideals" and the "idea of Love" as her only way to measure herself from. I have to be honest with myself within my own limitations...and what I am missing in my ability to respect someone...comes from "respect that is earned" and my wife has failed the test on that one. I cannot with a clear conscious and without lying to myself....that respect without being earned is a waste of my time and nothing I can "respect" at all in terms of my wife? I might Love her in the truest sense of the word....but I do not have any respect for her what so ever...and feel she is broken...beyond repair. When she quit going to see our T by saying that she'd heard everything she needs to hear...and then in turn...accuses me of wasting my time by going to see him and to her...it hasn't done any good? Beyond sounding completely retarded and absurd....that statement has caused me to lose all respect for my wife and I cannot get passed seeing her now....as just a broken endless pit of despair with no ability or capacity to Love me in the way I Love her which in her mind ( as deluded as it is )...means "take care of me and fill my emptiness for me."
I cannot respect this and I cannot lie to myself anymore about my wife. She is a product of her mother...and I see nothing good coming from my wife either now...or anytime in the future and it is an insult to what I have to offer to waste it on someone who doesn't even know what Love is except for the perverted form in which she thinks it is...in the broken mind of an abused victim who doesn't have what it takes...to fix her self and do anything about it. The connection inside her is broken and it's not my job to fix it a she feels that it is. And when I don't try and fix it for her...she gets hostile and angry and this....I have absolutely no respect for and never will. We don't have a relationship...;.what we have is a child who needs a parent....at age 60 years old but I'm not a parent...and my wife is definitely not a child.
All I see...is a broken human being who is not willing to change and refuses to take reasonability for here actions and emotions and is a victim which I find reprehensible and have no respect for what so ever even if I do Love her. Respect...unlike Love...is earned in my book and my wife has done nothing to deserve my respect which is why....I do not respect her as a person. I don't feel sympathy for her....I pity her and who wants to make Love with someone you pity? What she respects and feels Love by...are in terms of her environment and things on the outside of her...while the only thing that means anything to me is what is on the inside and I have given her the benefit of the doubt long enough mow to feel that what is on the inside of her...her emptiness, black, and devoid of Love. I might as well go masturbate alone...than feel emptiness in the act of making Love with my wife which I have no desire what so ever and this is why I think? Mutual masturbation...is as good as it will ever get and I can do better than that all by myself and I'm not that hard up..to compromise myself to what I do not respect or have any good feelings for what so ever. My wife deserves someone who is in the dark like her and they can be happy together filling the holes in the life....instead of filling their glass and being happy which in my book...is a perversion in itself.
I'm sorry for the rambling this time in that I am just now coming to any real conclusions and my heart is sinking as I am writing this. This is not a vent...as much as a realization and a recognition of what I truly feel which is as brutally honest as I can get?
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm
J
( ( ( J ) ) )
Submitted by NowOrNever (not verified) on
Taking in what you wrote.
Please, have no worries about rambling. We write, on this site. we need to.
Bro, be who you are.
Now
WOW J.....
Submitted by c ur self on
Your posts have taught me much about the workings of an ADHD mind, they have made me laugh, they have made me mad, but I don't remember one making my face wet:(....This place you have found yourself concerning your wife is a hard place....A real place, but, I know it's a hard place....If I could help you break free from the effects of this thinking about another person I would....
I will just say something right here that you said to me months ago....Something at the time that kind of pissed me off, because I needed it so bad......You simply broke down one of my post's....You listed all the things I had written about my W.....Then you listed all the things I said about myself....LOL....Awwww.....Yep, you gave me a great opportunity to be aware....To "SEE".....To realize no matter what was going on in her mind and no matter what the results of her actions were....Allowing it to overwhelm me, control my thinking and effect my emotions was doing her no good, and was destructive to my life and the relationship.....My heart has been telling me that you need to here this from me, but, I have been reluctant to know how to say it.....Well there it is....
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Man I really appreciate you, and if I have failed to Love you, in the way God as given me opportunity to do; I hope you will forgive me....
C
Thank You...Youze Guys !
Submitted by kellyj on
Really! When I first came here. someone pointed something out to me that was really true and that I had not been able to see? Authenticity. Boy....a lot harder than it sounds? I've literally been working on that ever since and the reason it's so difficult is that involves how you actually feel.....accurately. That's the hardest part? But first you have to know how you feel accurately...and then you have to know how to say it...accurately!!! LOL And I was thinking about you as well, teaching me about Alexithymia and what that is? "Without words for feelings". That would make it difficult, to ever be authentic wouldn't it? Without a doubt....the feelings are there...but not being able to identify them and describe them or just go with the first emotion that crosses your mind is not an accurate way of saying how you feel?
My T did a little "test" while we were in our T's office together..and since he knows me well enough...he was trying to show me something ( and less my wife in this case ..more for my benefit ) He asked us both...what comes first? Feelings...or ....emotions? And I immediately said "feelings"...and my wife immediately said "emotions". And he said .." I can see that, I wouldn't argue with that at all".....in which I looked at him and said "hey wait a minute, what about intuition and your senses. Don't those come first or aren't they working all the time therefore....they would come first?"
And he gave me that look that says.." shut up...and just listen you idiot!!! " LOL He just showed me what I was up against and it took me a minute and went...oops...I get it!!! (silently). I have to go back to my mother on this one ( my ADHD source of course ). She was so disconnected to her body in a physical sense.....I have to go back to mentioning how she went down stairs and almost peed myself when I remembered how painful it was to watch her walk down a flight of stairs ( looking down at her feet and then placing each step very calculated, and methodical ..like she was setting crystal goblets on each step one at a time and doing it the same way......with extreme causation and care.....one at a time. While at the same time...always having one hand on the railing as if she was going to fall over without it there. Actually...that part she needed since she was looking down instead of forward and her whole body off weighted forward from her head which caused her balance to move forward which also caused her to fall forward without her hand there to steady her? OMG!!! If you were behind her trying to go down the stairs...it was not only testing every bit of patience you had in you....but it was so extremely annoying that I remember always giving her a raft of shit when ever that happened? "C'mon Grandma...we haven't got all day!!! " LOL My mom was in her thirty's I think at the time? LOL But it never changed and only got worse ( and slower ) as she got older? She would have a complete panic attack...every time she would come over to my house and see that I took the railing off my stair well because it took up room and made it difficult to carry things up and down my steep and narrower than average stairs. And she wouldn't let go of that. She was constantly asking me if I had put it back up and even offered to pay someone to come do it.....even though I told her repeatedly why and I didn't want a railing there? Do you think that stopped her from badgering me about this? NO!!! lol She was so locked into her own thoughts and fears about stairs and her own inability to just walk down them like a normal person....all she could see at all...was the alarming fact ( to her ) that there was no railing there even thought....she was the only person who needed it...because how she walked down stairs....NOT NORMAL!!! ( WHICH REQUIRED A RAILING IN ORDER TO DO IT THAT WAY? ) LOL
On the flip side to this story? I remembered a vacation I took years ago to Sun Vally Idaho. A friends mother who had a condo there...offered it to me and a friend for free for an entire week...so off we went with skis and gear thrown in the car and a cooler full of food and beer and we drove none stop to got there....like ASAP!! It had snowed really hard just the night before and dumped a huge amount of fresh snow on the mountain and so in the morning...when we woke up, we woke up to fog so thick...you couldn't see more 10ft in front of you and I'm in a new ski resort that I had no idea where anything was? My first run down the hill was me falling everywhere because the powder was so deep and I couldn't see where I was going? When I got to the bottom....one of the Sun Valley employees got on the chair with me and asked me how it was going? "Well...if I could see, it might help." as I sat there with snow in my hair , hat and every inch of me trying to look like I hadn't just learned how to ski and feeling pretty foolish since the visibility was so poor there were few people out at that time?
And this guy looked at me and said.."you don't need to see....just use your feet to feel your way. Close your eyes and pretend your going down stairs and just ski by feel the same way....trying to see in this stuff will just screw you up and you'll just be face planting your way all the way down the hill other wise." And I had that flash back of my mother and immediately I remembered what I needed to do...he was absolutely right. As soon as I stopped trying to see and just felt my feet ....I could feel every bump and change in the surface and I was skiing blind but in perfect control ( even though I had no ideas where I was at the time!! LOL ) Fortunately...the sun came out only an hour later and there I was...in Paradise for entire week of skiing ...rent free!! LOL
The point here is a good one. Not only could my own mother even fathom skiing...let alone walking down a flight of stairs....the thought of me skiing alone would cause her nearly unbearable amounts of worry and anxiety!! LOL If she had heard this guy tell me ...."you don't need to see "....instead of...."are you crazy, no one is out skiing in this pee soup. Go in...your nuts, you can't ski in this!!!!"
"Can't?" "Or.....you just don't know how?" If you are disconnected to your body and you can't sense your way or feel by using your senses, feelings, intuition and instincts...then the answer is NO....you can't do it? It's the disconnect that is the problem between my mother and I despite the fact that we both have/had ADHD. And why is that? I know exactly why!!! LOL I started out life...on my feet running and moving and crashing, falling, running into things ...tipping things over and injuring myself constantly when I was little? Except for having really good balance....everything I touched ended up broken or disabled in some way right at first. There was almost never a time...that I didn't have some kind of cut, or scrape, or injury on my body at all times and I have the scars to prove it!!! Numerous ones all over my body!!!! LOL But I just didn't know any better and getting injured was just part of the deal? I got so use to being injured or the pain from doing that so often...that eventually...my brain got wired in all those ways early...and eventually...you figure out all the ways not to repeat those same injuries again....each time a new one happened?
In contrast....and I can guarantee this with my mother knowing her as well as I did? If that was her when she was little...and she fell even once and skinned her knee...that would be it. The last time she would have ever done that and would never dare do that again? She spent "0" time....wiring her brain to her body and was completely disconnected to it because she stopped or never tried?
Me on the other hand...was in the back yard falling and crashing and injuring myself on a daily basis because......I loved doing what I loved to do....more than I cared about the pain or getting hurt since getting hurt...was just an obstacle or minor annoyance which was just part of having fun? Getting hurt, physical pain and having FUN.....go together like two pees in a pod?
And so as I see it......the same thing can play out dramatically differently depending on how you see it and the results at the end will manifest itself like night and day? In respect to my mother...she had trouble going down a fight of stairs without all that anxiety and fear?
With me.....I was skiing down a steep new hill I'd never been on before in 3 feet of fresh snow and having the time of my life? BLIND!!! LOL With no fear and no anxiety what so ever? It's all in how you look at it....and the experiences that tell you ....;.you can do it....or you can't do it....depending on?
J
Yep J
Submitted by c ur self on
I think you just said....Acceptance of Reality....And we all have different realities...If so, I agree 100%....:)
C