I need to unburden myself and this anonymous forum where almost everyone nevertheless "knows" me seems a good place to do it.
I had to report for jury duty this morning. In my county, a bunch of people are summoned for every Monday morning and juries for all the week's trials are selected. No potential juror knows ahead of time what case he or she might be selected for. I did not want to serve but I did not plan to lie or stretch the truth to get out of being on a jury. Once there, I was among a group of approximately 100 people who were told we were the potential jurors for a particular trial. We assembled in the courtroom. I was among the first group of 24 to be questioned. The judge began by reading the charges the defendant faces. The first charge was a little hard to follow, but I could tell that it involved the alleged victim being allegedly harassed for three years. Alleged victim and the defendant have the same last name so I assumed they had been spouses at some point. I had an almost instant visceral reaction: I cannot be fair to this defendant. And almost immediately after that came the realization that at some point in the process, I would have to tell the judge and the attorneys and possibly everyone that I could not be fair to the defendant.
With the way the questioning works, I didn't have to spill to everyone; I and a few other potential jurors with very personal things to mention were called in one by one to speak to only the judge, with clerks, attorneys, defendant, and police officers in the courtroom. Everyone was polite and the judge was very kind. But it was embarrassing to say that I couldn't be fair to a defendant because I'm in a terrible relationship. It was embarrassing because I realized how vulnerable and fragile I still feel despite not living with my husband most of the time; it was embarrassing because my husband's behavior was not as bad as what the defendant allegedly did to his wife. But in some sense what is worst to me is that I had to admit to these people that I can't be fair. I'm also a lawyer (I don't practice but work in a law-related field) and I'm proud of my education and knowledge and work and ethics. But I felt it was my duty to say that I've become a person who can't be fair in certain situations. The few friends I've told about this (also women lawyers) said I did the right thing but I still feel like crud. And I'm so sad that this is who I am now.
We seem to be floating in limbo land
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
". . . it was embarrassing to say that I couldn't be fair to a defendant because I'm in a terrible relationship. It was embarrassing because I realized how vulnerable and fragile I still feel despite not living with my husband most of the time; it was embarrassing because my husband's behavior was not as bad as what the defendant allegedly did to his wife. But in some sense what is worst to me is that I had to admit to these people that I can't be fair. "
Rosered,
Thank you for sharing that with us. The raw truth.
I read your words and thought to myself , "Am I in a terrible relationship?" I think I must be, as it does not bring me peace, happiness, nor joy. But why not? My husband does not drink, take illegal drugs, gamble, womanize, call me names, hit me, nor is he having an affair.
I have been asked over and over , "Liz, do you feel vulnerable?" I looked it up and the definition is:
1. helpless, defenseless, powerless, impotent, weak, susceptible.
2. in need of special care, support, or protection because of risk of abuse or neglect.
I refuse to be vulnerable. I do not want to be vulnerable, nor stuck, I do not want to doubt my gut feeling - that one that tells me I am not being stubborn, I am standing firm.
I am trying to say not one negative thing about my spouse. Not criticize. Not judge. I do not want to say "I don't like him." But I have to say about myself, "I do not like him." And I have to say" I tried a lot of things." And I have to say "I do not want try anything else." I am giving up - on me searching for the elusive dream.. I can't find the solution to have a good marriage. It is not possible to hone it, nor carve it, nor shape it into a healthy happy place I want to be.
Those realities do not make me bitter, nor do they come from anger. They come from the result of much searching, and learning and soul searching. Oh, heck, Ithis girl did more than search, I literally ripped my soul to shreds to try to find what "I wanted" to be there. It is not there.
Liz
Thank you for your response.
Submitted by PoisonIvy on
Thank you for your response. I usually don't feel vulnerable. In fact, I have recently been thinking about how resilient I am. So it was really a shock today when, after leaving the courthouse, I noticed how shaky I felt and as I plumbed for the source of my lingering feelings of sadness and anxiety, I realized how much it has taken out of me to be in a bad marriage and to be constantly trying to hide the fact that I'm in a bad marriage. I'm ashamed that I've not been as strong as I should be in the face of my marital woes.
I gotta keep on keeping on.
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Rosered,
Ah, shame: the comparison of the self's action with the self's standards.
" I realized how much it has taken out of me to be in a bad marriage and to be constantly trying to hide the fact that I'm in a bad marriage. "
I have been in denial for a very long time to the fact that I am in a bad marriage. When I look at the amount of time, effort, money, and prayers that I have invested - it is hard to feel upbeat, positive, and on-top-of-the-world. This is not to say my spouse is a bad man. It takes two. I was hell-bent on figuring out what I did wrong.
I just haven't a clue how to find peace here in the marriage. What had I hoped for? Maybe acknowledgement. Maybe an apology. Maybe a spark of SOMETHNG that resembles a partnership. Something really broke - shattered in my spirit - during the last tirade that I witnessed. Yes, I will say to all, that I have had a very weepy, morning. I needed a good cry - for me. I as a person, woman, lady, and am not a shattered heap of blubbering mess. I am just full of pent up stuff that makes me feel foolish. I learned long ago it is better to talk it out, rather than wait until I am so overwhelmed, I need 6 friends with spatulas to scrape me off the floor.
I feel the weight of condemning words - stated in anger - but what I had EXPECTED - HOPED - DREAMED, what I had patiently sat back and waited for, some sort of semblance of civility coming at me.
I found this site as many others did, by desperation and Googling the behaviors that had me pulling my hair out. I had deleted all my posts here earlier, as I was embarrassed and ashamed. Sure, I am at a better place personally - but the marriage has fallen off a cliff. Damn that. I need something I can't get. Can't wait it out. Can't see it in the distance.
I don;t know how many woman here have a difficult time discerning 'the behavior' from 'the person.' I gotta focus on me - as I am drained in trying to work with this. Yet, I know my spouse. I know his pain. I know how difficult it was for him to grow up with no encouragement - and much condemnation from his Dad. Nothing was ever good enough. How do you get through to a man that his efforts and actions are painful - when you know he will slip right into that old "I knew it. I can never be good enough for anyone."
That my friends, is a heavy thing to sort out. Unacceptable behaviors are not about "being good enough." I also am not that strong to say , "You are so right. Let's go to counseling so they can straighten me out."
LOL! I did that for so many times, with so many counselors. THEN we got the ADHD diagnosis, which was why I was willing to work with that. But after 4 years working with that ideology, I am still forgotten, I still am overwhelmed by the finances, I am still doing all the chores, and fighting a losing battle on keeping my yard tidy.
SO, am I hearing correctly that if my spouse is not willing to take any responsibility for his behaviors, and announces that he is just stuck in a marriage with a spouse with lots of issues, (LOL, I do have lots of issues - I am sick of all this crap already) his denial puts me right where I was when I started?
I live here. I see his charm at the outside world. I still am astounded how many people "saw quite a while ago" that something was wrong. That is a balm to my soul. Not that "Liz is right" , just that "Liz is struggling."
Working with a spouse who accepts and understands the ADHD realm, apologizes for mistakes, and asks how we can figure this out together - well I ain't got that. And again, damn.
Liz
I hear your anguished soul and feel that also.
Submitted by dedelight4 on
I very much understand so much of what you said about all the years trying to figure out "what the hell was wrong with ME". My husband leading the charge on that one, and then counselors also taking up that attitude as well, ONLY because we fall in a heap of a blubbering, crying mess in a counselors office. While my husband sits there stoic and in total control......saying, "See?....look how out of control she is". So, the focus always got put on me because I emotionally couldn't handle any more years of trying to make sense out of nonsense. Why did SO MANY counselors NOT SEE the ADHD? And when they did, why didn't they ADDRESS it with us? NO.....the crying, unstable, emotional wife is the one who needs to be locked away in a psych ward. My husband wouldn't SAY anything once we got to the counselors office. At least NOTHING about HIMSELF. He would talk about his job, his work, the people he works with, my family, our kids, ANYTHING, except HIM. And several counselors let him get away with that. I don't get it.
He was always the victim, was always trying as hard as he could, and no one appreciated him, including his bosses, and th counselors would feel sorry for him, while chiding me for not being more understanding. I couldn't BE more understanding. THAT'S ALL I DID, WAS UNDERSTAND.....AND IT GOT ME NO WHERE. IT GOT ME RUN OVER, IT GOT ME UNHEARD, IT GOT ME NOTHING OUT OF LIFE, IT BROKE ME. I had to stop being so "understanding", because I LOST MYSELF along the way.
I want to hear more "professionals" say that there aren't enough counselors that know enough about ADULT ADHD. They seem to know a lot about childhood ADHD, and can deal with THAT. But, when it comes to ADULT ADHD, and not getting diagnosed until you are 50 plus, there is a real GAP in knowledge about how to deal with the WHOLE THING of living with this condition. (Especially for the families) We bear these burdens in silence and in unheard desperation, isolating ourselves from the world because NO ONE UNDERSTANDS THIS......unless you have LIVED with it. People see US as the weak ones for not "cracking the whip, and telling them to just "shape up, or ship out"........They just DON'T KNOW....that THAT DOESN'T WORK.
Our husband/wives see us as losers, our families see us as losers, our friends and neighbors see us as losers, and we see OUR OWN SELVES AS LOSERS, because we can't make our marriages work. "Just GET OUT"......is what we are told, repeatedly....but it isn't THAT EASY. The SHAME of the entire thing is terrible to life with. There's a LOT said about the ADHD'ers living with the shame of the condition, but NOTHING is said about the shame of their PARTNERS who can't HOLD EVERYTHING TOGETHER...........while their lives are falling apart, and we are dying inside.
I have moved past a majority of the pain - into the sunshine
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
dedelight4,
I have a definite date for the end of my searching for the answer to what I was missing - that was August , 2010. Up until then I really thought I must have been losing my mind. After my spouse's ADHD diagnosis - and NO I am not BLAMING him for everything - all the puzzle pieces started to fall into place. All the things that just made me shake my head in disbelief,they all started to make sense - time blindness, disorganization, procrastination, forgetfulness, trouble focusing. No wonder he loses track of time. No wonder he can not estimate how long it will take to accomplish things. No wonder his desk and work areas are always a disaster. No wonder he always waits till the last minute to start projects.
Not one of the counselors we saw prior to that saw the ADHD.
This was true for us, too. Not one discovered it. My own learning through experience came when our son was diagnosed with ADHD in 4th grade. I knew and learned and experienced 'childhood identified' ADHD. I surely can understand what a difficult time it can be to get the diagnosis at 50+ years of age. I probably went about it all wrong - but after push came to shove, my spouse got the evaluation at the Cleveland Clinic in OH. I though it would have been an awakening. It was not. And, so as I have experienced it, it has been an ugly road.
Our husband/wives see us as losers,
I do not think my husband sees me as a loser. He is just "right" about everything LOL!!
our families see us as losers, our friends and neighbors see us as losers,
This was not my experience. The outside of our relationship was what people saw - what i molded it to be, how I smoothing out and explained and covered his tracks by enabling his behavior to go pretty much undetected - or so I thought!
I am amazed to be finding out what people actually did see and understand and realize.
I never saw my self as a loser just because I couldn't make my marriage work.. But I sure depleted every ounce of oomph I had, plus some I didn't even have.
I indeed did feel like I was dying inside - which is when I started Googling and then found this site.
I was dying inside. I am not now. I though a lot of our struggle came with finding the right help in NE Ohio. When the National CHADD Convention was in Cleveland a few years ago, it had very poor attendance. I believe I was told it was the lowest attendance they ever had.
Right now, where I find contentment is through realizing my spouse still is oblivious to how his behaviors wreck havoc in our lives. Until the point where he can accept and acknowledge, and search for help FOR HIMSELF, rather than for his wife, then we can get somewhere. Until then, it is futile.
I do not need his acknowledgement to know what I feel is true for me. I really want to focus on what I want and need. I want an equal division of chores. I want to negotiate where we are today, where we want to go, and how we might get there. I am so tired of rehashing over and over and over, and nothing changing. For Liz, what we have as a couple, just is not acceptable. I no longer will beg and plead to be heard.
Things are changing for me = how I see it all. What my choices are. I let no one pick my spouse for me, and I will let no one decide for me when enough is enough. We are all different here on this forum. We each move at a different speed. We all have different styles of coping. We all have different amounts of patience and forgiveness and hope.
I know myself. I like myself. I enjoy being alone as much as being with friends. That is an accomplishment for me. I rather enjoy it. I WANTED my marriage to succeed. I do not NEED it to succeed to be successful. That gives my heart some freedom I never realized I had.
Liz
The notion of nothing major
Submitted by jackrungh on
The notion of nothing major being wrong from the outside really resonates with me. Is it odd that I'm the ADD partner, and I'm the one who feels most acutely the pain of our unhappy marriage?
In this I'm speaking not about anything happening or any topical issues in a relationship, but rather the pain you feel as a result of being so profoundly disconnected. There is no bonding, no feeling of sharing yourself and being understood. It's like a void. No spark. Maybe fleeting glimmers from time to time but nothing sustaining.
I still think that connection can be rekindled. I have a lot of my own issues to resolve to help with that, but then there are her issues and there are our shared issues. Sometimes I have an idea about what we might do, sometimes I feel like things are setting themselves right of their own accord, and sometimes I sit awake alongside her and despair.
Thank you for this honest and educational view.
Submitted by c ur self on
I've read some of your posts...I've often wondered what it is like for my wife, to be in her head...I was so overwhelmed and selfish the first several years of our marriage by the effects on me and on our mostly futile attempts to share in any kind of commonality...I just tried ignorantly to fix things that are already in a fixed state (permanent)...So, as I am growing and coming to understand the water isn't over my head...and I can put my feet on bottom and stop the struggling, I am learning you can have...love, acceptance, trust and all the good stuff w/o enablement and all the negative stuff.
I woke up this morning at 4:50 or so, my wife was restless, I had been a sleep since a little after midnight...She usually gets home from work around midnight...Then she watches TV or reads waiting on her adderall to wear off...when I realized she was still a wake at 4:50 I slide over closer to her to see if snuggling would help her drift off, but, all it did was give her the green light to talk.:)...So, I should rest well tonight...
I need her to be able to share all her feelings and emotions with me...w/o me popping up with the answer all the time...The void you spoke of in one of your posts...I don't want her to have voids or feelings that she feels I want listen to, without being a threat to her self esteem...We type and speak this unconditional love so easily...I've been such a poor excuse of living it...
PS...Good luck with your project and deadline...And another thing...Your Children are super precious! I've got a 6 year old boy and 2.5 year old girl...Grands...It's awesome....
I just wish we had a way of
Submitted by jackrungh on
I just wish we had a way of speaking to one another as a couple that would allow us to get these feelings across. Sometimes I feel like she doesn't even have a collection of feelings that she would share with me. I'm always --often to her annoyance-- trying to do the snuggling, physical bonding things that seem to make so much sense to us men, but unless she starts a conversation about "us" we really never have it. When she starts these conversations it is never about our bond or being close, but rather about some problem to address or goal we need to consider. It's a practical matter never confined to the world of how I feel or how she feels.
I'm not sure why I am so scared to start conversation. Alone in bed at night I have felt tempted to speak up before drifting off to sleep, but I just can't form anything coherent that doesn't just make it worse. When you are the ADHD one who isn't the one driving our shared life it is hard to be the one to come with a complaint. When you don't shoulder an equal load for the planning and execution of the stuff, you just sound like a ridiculous child when you try to voice how unhappy you have become.
Today is a bad day, and I'm probably not coming through clearly even in this text-based forum, where I have time to think about what I want to get across and can edit the message before sending it.
Your are clear...and thanks...
Submitted by c ur self on
It's a little different here...No children, so we both have our hobbies etc...I don't know if it related to her add, but she is very opinionated about her views of life. Also about what she wants us to do as a couple...She will plan huge things...But I end up doing the work for it, so I've gotten a little wiser about jumping up happily and agreeing to everything until we have had a talk about who is responsible for what...At that point, she will rethink things....
I wish I was more like you in that I was scared to speak up, or maybe I should say wise enough to shut up...She and I are both type a...and neither is hardly ever at a lose for words...Not a good thing much of the time...But, I'm learning quiet and listening can equal Peace in our relationship...
Safe place to be honest
Submitted by Tired-to-my-bones on
One of the things that I have learned over time is that I can think whatever I like. I am safe inside my own head. In this safe space I can examine the ideas of 'not liking', 'not respecting', my overwhelming sadness,anger and frustration ......you can add to list.... It's a place where I can try things on, try them out. I am not burdened by thoughts that this makes me a bad person. Because I'm not. It's a place where I can be as honest as I am able. The ability to reflect and learn what is ours to own, and what is not, is powerful. You have no need to feel ashamed Rosered. You get ethics and you did the right thing. I'm wondering if sadness in this situation is a form of grieving, ....for what might have been......and the emotion brought up by having to admit to others how bad things are, is an admission that we haven't achieved what we set out to. It's ok. It's not failure. It's a sign of how strong you are that you are able to recognise this. This forum for me is like an extension of my head. It's safe to explore and try things out for size. Take care.