When I got to acceptance | ADHD and Marriage

Wow that is powerful. I too

Submitted by dvance on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 15:03

Wow that is powerful. I too have been at this alone for 19 years-it is the loneliest, scariest thing ever. We are in this alone. Last week my DH told me that if I don't care about him, why should he care about himself? He's not even going to take the time to eat any more, he's just going to work since that is apparently all he's good for. What in the world do you say back to a 46 year old man who thinks that? He tells me I control everything, that I even control his thoughts, that I won't even let him think his own thoughts. Again, I am stunned. What do you do with that?

delusional

Submitted by Standing on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 15:25

Really, that sounds so familiar.. and it sounds like more than add. I do believe that is my husband's view, as well. When he cannot deny his issues, it must be because i am exercising my superpowers. This progression of the stages of dealing with add is excellent. Thank you very much for sharing it. Helps alot. Wobblinv between depression and acceptance here.

Wish I knew

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Tue, 10/21/2014 - 12:42

dvance,

I always have to take every part of me, and consider my choices based on the compilation of those parts. The good, the bad and the ugly.

I AM affected by the man who lives in the same house as I do. The man who, 32 years ago rode up on his white horse and rescued me. That is HOW we started our relationship. I CANNOT dismiss that, as I was so close to suicidal back then, I TRULY believe God placed him in my path, as a stepping stone to a better way of life.

Hindsight is 20/20. He encouraged me, "Liz, you need to look in that mirror and say 'Liz, I love you.' " "Liz, you need to care about what YOU think of yourself, not base your self worth on what others think of you."

I learned to apply that wisdom. I THOUGHT I was working my way up the mountain, to a place where my spouse was, and when I reached it, then we would ride off into our future, together.

There is wisdom and truth in those 2 ideals. And, along with many other things, I enveloped them, and they became part of the base and root system upon which I built my life.

While my spouse holds that wisdom as "fact,' he cannot apply it to his own life. Yes, he helped me yearn for that peace of mind, and then attain it. It has been very eye-opening to discover he does not have those for himself. He does not like himself. And he bases his self worth on cheers and kudos from others.

Acknowledgement, validation, cheers and kudos from others are very nice to have. But not solid foundations upon which to build your self-esteem.

Deep in my heart, I hold on tight to the man I saw, and knew, and the one with whom I fell deeply in love.

And while it sure seemed he was helping me, he is now somehow angry and threatened by who I have grown to be. The person he encouraged me to become.

It is an interesting dynamic - one that permeates through his siblings, too. As long as they are helping and rescuing you from troubles and hurts, they are fine. Get to the place of being on the same playing level, and they back away, and shut - you - out.

Not so very long ago, my spouse came to me in bitter sadness, and kept saying, "I am depressed, but not in mortal peril." Gosh, that was scary. If someone has never said ANYTHING like that, then at 50-some years of age says it in tearful posturing, it sure SEEMED like I SHOULD worry he was in mortal danger. It really is no comfort to know that if he did do something, it would really not be my fault. Well, that scary incident was over a year ago.

Our intimate life had been on a downward spiral for a long time. Each time I got my brain wrapped around "not being selfish," "not denying my spouse," 'men's needs versus women's needs," "totally removing any thoughts of our current struggles and just enjoying," I ended up feeling taken advantage of, and used. Time between intimacy became longer and longer. Until it was totally nonexistent.

I do not want what I have. Two people, existing in the same house, bound together by financial duress. Each chapter of a day wrapped up in tiptoeing, and carefully choosing words, and holding back discussion that will explode, and watching others wrapped up in placating of an angry soul. Oiy. He is a force to be reckoned with, and I already need to find a healthier way to survive.

I realize it is up to me to draw the line in the sand and say "Enough!" I really am scrambling to find the right way to break this bondage I feel I am stuck.

I have been saying for quite a long while, "I AM NOT STUCK. I AM NOT STUCK. I AM NOT STUCK. I AM NOT STUCK. I AM NOT STUCK. I AM NOT STUCK. "

LOL! Low and behold, Liz really IS stuck.

Liz

Steering clear with hope

Submitted by ChrisChris on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 19:33

Recently my mom and I had a talk about Dad. She told me that years ago she thought she could live with the notion that her children would naturally blame her for trying to be the superwife/supermom to an untreated ADHD husband. She actually believed our pain would be alleviated by allowing us to blame her for her endless trying. She was rock solid convinced Dad would eventually get a clue and grow into the attentive man that we needed, and that this would happen faster if we all got out of his way so he could become that man. As if our presence was the reason he couldn't manage his ADHD symptoms ...

Of course none of that wishful thinking paned out. Mom apologized to me for putting my brother and I in an impossible situation. I'm not angry, but being raised like that messes with my head and probably always will.

ChrisChris, your post really

Submitted by PoisonIvy on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 20:28

ChrisChris, your post really got to me. I worry about my children (two adult daughters) and how they feel about me and their father, who has done little to deal with his ADHD and other issues and whose neglect and financial problems have had a big effect on me and some effect on them. What would you have liked your mom to have done instead of what she did? (This is a serious question, not sarcastic at all; I hope it doesn't come across as that.)

What my mom should have done ...

Submitted by ChrisChris on Mon, 08/25/2014 - 14:17

Hello there Rosered,

Wow great question! Hindsight being what it is I can only answer already knowing what did happen - but - I think my mom should have initiated a divorce around the time I was 12 and my brother was 7 because that's when I remember things starting to go overboard with dad's ADHD. Instead, she hung in there with him, rolling out the red carpet to his demands and green lighting his misperceived reality to keep the peace. My brother and I followed in kind.

[I have a particularly unpleasant memory of having to psychologically make it it not matter that I was kicked off of the marching band in high school for habitual lateness. I was late because my dad could not drop me off in time for practice, even though he was chronically underemployed by then with not much else to do in the afternoons. There was no hope of ever getting back in the band either because my dad decided to "handle" the situation in the usual way by ragefully denying the problem over and over ("I get her to practice! On time! On the dot!") and then trying to manipulate the band director into accepting his version of reality.]

Anyway, in the end when my parents were double mortgaged and teetering on bankruptcy (again!) Mom FINALLY put her foot down and addressed Dad's behaviors head-on. Dad responded to her by initiating a divorce. He. Divorced. Her. Because he didn't have a problem. She was the problem and he was going to show her what for by leaving. I was about 23 and my brother was starting his last year of high school. My mom and brother were totally shattered. I was less so - not that I saw it coming or anything. I was blindsided by his leaving too, but I was also relieved.

So yeah - a divorce initiated by her when his ADHD symptoms started becoming a chronic problem. That would have been my wish at the time. My mom said "I probably wouldn't have listened, who knows, but I still wish one of those marriage counselors would have sat me down and told me he was never going to be aware enough to change and reach a better level."

Thank you, ChrisChris. I

Submitted by PoisonIvy on Mon, 08/25/2014 - 14:32

Thank you, ChrisChris. I really appreciate you taking the time to write this down. It is much food for thought.

Gracias back

Submitted by ChrisChris on Mon, 08/25/2014 - 14:41

Thanks for your reply. I hope I didn't depress you or anything. My dad was a great guy in so many ways. I do have the good memories and I probably would have more of them had there been an opportunity to communicate with him on a turf he couldn't dominate.

Awareness

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Mon, 08/25/2014 - 16:29

ChrisChris,

I find this discussion to be very informative! Being the Mom and the non-ADHD person, I can look with hindsight and see a lot in our lives. For myself, I was just always struggling to get it right, but I was never sure exactly what was causing the chaos.

This comment: Because he didn't have a problem. She was the problem and he was going to show her strikes me deeply as I can relate to it so well. This is how "I feel" my spouse interprets things. Because he tells me so!!

I really do not know what goes with ADHD, what is something else, what is just part of both of our stubborn European personalities, what is men versus woman. Thus, I have searched help from many resources. On some levels, my spouse understands how the negative ADHD behaviors contribute to making our lives sorta chaotic. He keeps saying he just wants to "get fixed already." On other levels, he sees I am too demanding, never satisfied, and punishing him by with-holding any intimacy from him.

The way I perceive his thinking is that it appears very rigid. If he would say "I am sorry" it would equal he was wrong which would mean his intent was wrong - and that is just not the case, so he had no malicious intent, so he wasn't wrong, so he is not sorry.

For me, myself, I feel I have no voice that is heard in my marriage. I need to be heard, honored, respected and valued.

So you said you realized things around the age of 12. Were things always the same, was there a change - or did you just become aware of the situation?

I KNOW for a fact that in our lives - I had just had enough, and I said to my children and spouse alike - that I had made an error in judgment by always bending and swaying to keep my spouse happy. And from that day forward, I would not sell out my own values and knowledge and choices just to keep the peace. And that, was the beginning of the fastest downward spiral to today.

Hello!

Submitted by ChrisChris on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:15

Hello!

Yes rigid, black and white thinking, or maybe just a problem with thinking in general. I was aware of my family being "different" from the start. My dad traveled a lot for work, which suited him perfectly. There was never any indication of when he might be home for any length of time - seriously never. But when he was home it was exciting. He told great stories - always had better story than the one the neighbor had just shared "If you think that's big, last week I was in El Paso ..."

I remember hearing his laughter at back yard BBQ's from two streets away. He seemed to know more, do more and experience more than my friend's fathers. But he was also a time vampire, because he never stopped talking and explaining and interrupting people to talk and explain some more. People liked him in small doses and they got a kick out of telling stories about the crazy neighbor guy who habitually crow-barred the front door open because he could never find his keys. "Oh" somebody would say, "Is that the guy you were telling me about who went out for lighter fluid and drove to Santa Barbara by accident?" Yes. That was him.

My mom was quieter. She tutored students in our kitchen until she decided to take her skills back to the classroom around the time my dad's company "rewarded" him by requiring fewer service calls and road trips. The desk he earned for doing so well - the desk that allowed him to have a 9 to 5 life and see his family more often - was his downfall. I became hyper aware that dad was a big problem - something was the matter with him.

ChrisChris

Submitted by lauren07 on Tue, 08/26/2014 - 19:37

Yes, thank you!

and thank everyone for sharing. It really helps.

ChrisChris - I am another one

Submitted by ICanSeeClearlyNow on Tue, 08/26/2014 - 22:45

ChrisChris - I am another one wanting to thank you for this post, but from the perspective of someone looking ahead to the difficult decisions in the future. My kids are 11 months and 3 years old and part of me feels like I should just get the divorce over and done with... but I hate the idea of taking the kids away from their dad and I feel like things could get better as the kids get a little more independent. So maybe there are some good years ahead and what I need to watch out for is when things really go south. I really appreciate the clarity and candidness of your post.

Divorce plus/minus

Submitted by ChrisChris on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:43

Hello ClearlyNow,

Divorce doesn't necessarily mean taking kids away from one parent or another. In my case I wound up seeing my father more after the divorce and it was better for me because I didn't have to rely on him for anything other than to come see me. Things were better for my younger brother too because he was no longer conveniently "there" in Dad's peripheral vision, waiting for some fatherly attention while Dad sat a lawn chair reading the 'M' volume of the Encyclopedia. The downside was that the divorce was not good for our Dad. He forfeited the well-oiled family machine that kept all of his plates spinning for so many years. So so sad.

Hmm, I see my own reality yet again

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 16:15

ChrisChris,

"The downside was that the divorce was not good for our Dad. He forfeited the well-oiled family machine that kept all of his plates spinning for so many years."

In all honesty, I THOUGHT that when I pulled back, when I stopped doing 'it all", when I no longer gave in to shirking back from my husband's anger, I thought he would see what value I really had added to our relationship, how much of his own well-oiled machine of life was from all the effort I put into keeping everything flowing smoothly.

He did not see. He does not see. Darn it all. What he sees is that I am punishing him. I have nothing left to try to encourage him, or enlighten him, or hope he will WANT to help me and himself.

And on top of it all, everything is falling down around me too.

everything falling down around me

Submitted by Standing on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 17:29

It is that stark reality which has me thinking along the lines of ultimate retirement to an apartment setting, since there's no way I can manage a house alone and don't have reason to expect to have the finances to hire out the upkeep work.

Does he really see you as punishing him because you have stopped trying to do everything?

Or does he see you as punishing him because he sees how unhappy you are?

My husband does not see an unhappy me, because I am still smiling and being quite pleasant. So he does not feel punished, although alot of stuff is indeed falling apart around us, to which he is clearly oblivious.

Oblivion

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 17:52

Standing,

He had accused me of punishing him to get my own way.

I am only sad and despondent over my marriage. I find joy in my life and my friends and my family and attending college classes and my hobbies and my children. I try to be a blank slate when it comes to showing my emotions over our marriage to my spouse. He grabs at those moments when I can not hold it in, and uses them as "proof" over how I need help "because I am so unhappy." .

Hmm. He has a funny way of using me against myself. Well, in light of being stuck at in impasse, each day adds another stone to the pile that is swaying in the direction of there really is no change that will occur unless it comes from me. That change will not be a return to old behavior to keep the peace , it will be a change to remove myself from this increasingly emotionally intolerable situation.

He really does deserve to be happy as much as I do. Why should two people live together when there is not a way for either of them to be happy. In my own selfish brain, I see that he wants me to make him happy, and I need counseling to find my own happiness.

Finding Joy

Submitted by Standing on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 18:19

My counselor actually said to me recently that I could choose to view my marriage as a ministry. (He was not suggesting that I should, only reviewing options.)

I can visualize that... finding joy in marriage by serving my husband as I would serve Christ. Theoretically. If he allowed me to get enough sleep and if he didn't rage at me periodically for not meeting his expectations, and if he didn't bounce off the walls randomly (that one is negotiable) :)

You sound quite well balanced, More so than I. I need hobbies, amongst other things. First of all, I need to NOT be around him all day long, every day, at work. But I am not feeling that I have the stamina to take on a new job, which may well be at a fast food restaurant, considering the lack of options around here. That really must be my next battle... building up new stamina and energy reserves to locate and begin a new source of income.

You and I both know that we cannot make them happy, nor are we called to that, right? Called to be salt and light, that comes to mind. Having tried all else, I am left with plotting my own course - not to be an example with the goal of changing him, but simply to be, all the while leaning on other resources apart from him for strength,

P.S. I try also to be that blank slate. But I need to try differently, because so far the experience leaves me feeling... weak and violated.

Joy comes in the morning!

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 19:28

Standing,

My church had me, for years, putting my husband's interests before mine. Everything was about me being the guardian of his heart, keeping him satisfied in the bedroom, supporting his goals. All these I did with gusto and much joy. I delighted in my purpose in life being his wife and a mother to our children.

It took quite a long time before I saw that his dissatisfaction with his own life's choices meant he expected me to adjust mine. Some I did. As to my life calling of being a stay-at-home Mom until my children graduated from high school, that I held on with my whole being. I knew we could live within the means of the income from his business if we budgeted. He was unable to get on board. His self worth seemed to come from the outside - in what others said of him and thought of him. That was a recipe for disaster. His dissatisfaction with his own choices started with him making subtle little disparaging remarks about "what I did with my time" and his thoughts that I "could" add to our income. The more HE pushed, the harder I pushed back with getting him to see how we could live within our means with the proper budgeting.

Ah well, truth be told, I have realized he functions well with a needy woman. Oh, I am for sure a woman who loves to feel the tender touch or a man who cares for me. And it fulfills me to hear that who I am and what I have to offer make our marriage great. And that he loves ME. I do not get that. He let's me know how I am not measuring up - :to all the other wives. And what he needs from me is more important than who I am or my own unique gifts and skills and abilities.

LOL. I was saved long, long ago from having the need to fulfill anyone's else's expectations of me, other than my own. I enjoy a challenge. I do not NEED approval to feel satisfaction in myself. Thus, snide remarks prick my flesh, but do not steer my need to prove them wrong. I paid my dues in that arena years ago - smile and be the faithful little puppy scampering after affection by pleasing everyone - and when no one was around - starving myself to be perfect.

So in light of Biblical teaching, I believe it to be true. The promises I made on my wedding to my spouse, were the same promises he made to me. Our life got way out of balance a long time ago. I just have no more energy to fight for it. Not alone anyway. He did appear smug at times, when it was I who realized I was not doing things right.

Now, I choose to spend time with family and friends who accept me and love me - warts and all! My goal has shifted from doing anything and everything to prove I could stay married forever, until death do we part. I now want to enjoy life, enjoy myself and the gifts I have to offer the world.

what do you think he will do?

Submitted by Standing on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:39

Do you think he realizes just how done you are? Are you prepared for backlash from him if he does what ChrisChris' father did? That is what i ask myself, as i debate how long can i continue to "be there" for "the business" and not drop from exhaustion or emotional starvation.

I honestly haven't a clue

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 10:50

Standing,

I had thought we should put an end to our marriage many years ago, He kept wanting to try - you know those vows "till death do us part.". However, I REALLY believe he still thinks if I just get enough counseling, I will see the error of my ways. I bought into that for a long time. Now he is taking the position of "I wanted to leave YOU a long time ago." Odd. It sure seems he would rather end our marriage than admit he has any character flaws that need attention.

Me, I have had many character flaws. Many are altered now, and God just slowly, one day at a time, presents other things He wants me to work on in myself.

My spouse sleeps in our RV, because he claims he is tired of getting pounded. That really pisses me off as I have never even screamed at him to quit snoring or quit clenching my tender body in his hand when we was falling asleep. How sweet it would have been to hear him say, "Just as Mrs. XXX suggested, I will sleep in another room so you can get a full nights sleep." Nope, it was all about him escaping my pounding. That hurts. I have had so much responsibility heaped on me, I am smothered. I don't give him any affection. I pound him. I punish him. I don't appreciate him.

He even has crumpled up into a sobbing heap - heart-wrenching for me to see - and wailed that he hasn't even mourned his parents deaths yet. They passed in 2001 and 2003. I am not sure if he uses that as an excuse to not deal with our marriage issues, or if it really gets in the way. Either way, it is a horrible way to survive. He sure appears to have a lot of emotional baggage. He has carried it for all the years I've known him. I have grown weary of participating in his pain and sorrow. I am not heartless, I just needed to see him at least attempting to let stuff go. He carries the pain - not the lessons learned. Only he can decide he wants that to change. He needs the world to see how mean people have been to him. How unjust the world has been to him. And he also struggles with why he had gotten cancer since he was always so good. That is a tough burden to carry. I see how blessed we were that the high grad cancer he got that was supposed to take his life was all encased in the tumor, no radiation, no chemo, nope, he was healed. Over 5 years cancer free, but still angry he even got cancer.

I think I have been protecting myself from a backlash. He is very angry - at everyone. I want us to part peacefully if we need to part. I don't see that happenin'. He will attempt to gather the troops to see how mean I am to him.

Me. I will just admit defeat. I know what I know. The truth will prevail.

My husband is angry like this

Submitted by lauren07 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 13:23

My husband is angry like this too. Everything is some slight against him and he can do no wrong. It's so stressful having to be around it. Mine hates Christmas because he didn't get a lot of nice toys. Hates Christmas!!

I'm looking for places to live even though I can't afford it. I stopped trying to pay off one of his bills I had promised to and put that extra money into my own bills and savings. I'll be out of here soon.

There always seems to be a

Submitted by SherriW13 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 14:49

There always seems to be a reason to"spoil" any random holiday/event/celebration because so-and-so died in November or birthdays were ruined by his dad so if you don't go all out then you may as well not even do one single thing. Our first big fight was because he wanted $100 sunglasses and his birthday was Wednesday and I didn't get paid until Friday. I was a single parent working part time and supporting myself and my son. $100 may as well have been $1000. He was livid and said if I couldn't get him the glasses ON his birthday then he didn't want them at all

Oh my gosh--this happens at

Submitted by dvance on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 18:01

Oh my gosh--this happens at my house all the time--what is that?? My birthday is in October and he always get me something nice but then his is in November and when I ask for suggestions it's "no, I don't need anything, don't put yourself out, we can't afford it." His therapist asked about that and he said he doesn't feel like he deserves anything because his childhood was so crappy. Really? You are now 46 years old. Enough with the woe is me martyr crap. I cannot tell you how many gifts have gone unused because...well, I'm not really sure why. One year I paid $200 for private golf lessons-he WANTED them. Guess what? Didn't use it in time, went to waste. Literally $200 down the drain. Last Christmas he wanted a pass to go to the science museum by us for some special exhibit he was interested in. Again, got that--$100. Never used it. Nice hardcover books by authors he likes--sit unread on the shelf. A few I have pulled off the shelf and donated just to make more space--never notices. Clothes--unworn. What is that??? No celebration is the way they want it so it may as well not happen at all. Is that part of the black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinking? or is it part of the I am the center of the universe mentality??? I don't get it.

I am also so tired of the

Submitted by lauren07 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 20:25

I am also so tired of the "woe is me" martyr crap. I am just disgusted at myself for being permanently tied to this train wreck.

Thank you, Exhausted

Submitted by Standing on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 13:34

I appreciate you and must ponder all you have written.

That last sentence ... "Me. I will just admit defeat. I know what I know. The truth will prevail." May be odd, but to me that is a position of strength and hope. I like it! I have never been so relieved in my life to admit defeat. I told the business manager this morning that I am stepping far back and will help out for a few hours and provide coverage when needed, but no more full-time Missus Fixer. I can breathe again.

I feel for you. Two weeks

Submitted by dvance on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 18:17

I feel for you. Two weeks ago when DH finally noticed how much I have pulled back--that "sabbatical" that another poster called it--he told me that if I didn't care about him, why should he care about himself. Okay, really??? Now I have THAT on my shoulders too? You are not even independent enough to care for yourself for YOURSELF??? I have to be the one to, what, validate that you are worthy?? Yet another thing to be in charge of. I can't stand it much longer. I hit the wall about six months ago--interestingly, that's the last time we had sex too--that's how done I am. The idea that he is a perpetual victim, nothing is EVER his fault or responsibility. My DH was horribly abused as a child. Not minimizing that in any way, but like your DH with the cancer--how about let it go??? He is enraged with the people who did this to him-at age 6. Yes, it was awful, it went on for many years, but jeez--he's 46--what lessons could he learn? his anger is just so exhausting. all the people who hurt him are long dead. what's to be done?? the funny thing is--my dad was a raging, violent alcoholic who beat the crap out of my mom while my 5 year old self hid under the bed and watched. he used to threaten us with guns, throw the furniture around, so I understand childhood trauma, but you know what? my dad was a sick man. his behavior had nothing to do with me. and DH acts like he's the only one to have a sucky childhood. he used to talk about how important it was to him to give our kids a good childhood, but his erratic behavior and lack of engagement are damaging too. he is so up and down with his attention it's really hard for them. I too wonder if hanging on to the old stuff is a convenient way to NOT have to move forward, to always have a reason for your own crummy behavior. I too am tired of therapists attributing everything to a crummy childhood. Again, NOT minimizing anyone's pain over anything--please don't hammer me for that, but at what point is the statute of limitations up on blaming poor decisions you are making NOW to events that happened 40 years ago? Don't we have an obligation to the people in our lives currently who are alive and not hurting us, who are in fact doing the exact opposite of hurting us, to get our sh** together and be a good adult???

the anger that has been mentioned so often by so many posters is so interesting to me. what in the world do ADHD people have to be angry about? the "house administrator" usually takes care of everything, what is there to worry about???? do other non-ADHD people see in their ADHD spouses the "the world is out to get me/doesn't understand how great I am" thing? The last two jobs my DH got fired from (inside of three years), both times he was "thrown under the bus", he broke a rule "no one follows anyway", he was the only person in the whole company who knew what was going on and the place was going to fall apart without him. really??? both companies were there long before he was hired and are still going strong. how does that work???

Do I see "the world is out to

Submitted by SherriW13 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 19:19

Do I see "the world is out to get me" in my ADHD husband. Kinda. He's definitely the perpetual victim, although I suspect even he realizes his rationalizations are off the chain insane. I think it's all an absolute charade and he only acts "right" because he can't live with the truth. He does react poorly to consequences of his choices that he doesn't like...he recently did something that he didn't think through and got him in trouble at work...his reaction was "I'm going to quit!!"

Mine likes to say "FK the

Submitted by lauren07 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 20:32

Mine likes to say "FK the world". Definitely a perpetual victim and definitely thinks I'm responsible for his happiness. Mine is trying to look like a homeless vietnam vet, complete with decorated hat (that he earned). He didn't see combat though. He worked inside on a FOB. He whined the whole time and refused to go up in rank.

Mine had two loving parents and still acts like yours. He's been angry his entire life. Hyperfocus made him the happiest guy in the universe. I was duped!!

When we pull back and they don't notice

Submitted by ChrisChris on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:15

Hi Exhausted,

Yes exactly. Very few professionals talk about the minefield surrounding the "I'm going to pull back and take care of ME" mantra. The ADHD spouse rarely judges cause and effect accurately in the first place. Why don't the counselors mention the likelihood of a selfish reaction when the non-ADHD house administrator takes a sabbatical? The ADHD spouse does not say "Wow I had no idea you took care of so much work." Instead for a lot of us, the reaction sounds more like, "You have no cause to punish me like this."

I talked to my mom again last night. She said one of the main motivators in her decision to keep on keeping on with my father was a particular marriage counselor who was heavy into the co-dependence/enabler movement and totally blind to the ADHD madness sitting right there in front of him week after week. Don't get me wrong, the co-dependent ideology has it's place, but I don't believe, and neither does my mom, that it should be used to explain or "help" the non-ADHD spouse gain insight into their own motivations or help heal injured self-esteem. In other words, my mother's co-dependency did not aid and abet my father's obnoxious decision to invest over half of their retirement in Enron without telling her (not making this up) or impulsively buy a pedigree Golden Retriever puppy when their checking account was below zero, or decide one day to trade-in our Subaru that ran just fine for a Jeep that overheated, and also buy a sailboat that same week. She didn't do anything to make those problems become her problems, other than marrying a man who turned out to be an out-of-control, untreated ADHD husband. After their divorce, my dad carried on like this with each of his eventually-exasperated girlfriends, and they weren't co-dependent enablers either.

On the phone last night Mom told me she decided to get back in touch with the marriage counselor who had urged her to challenge her enabling behaviors etc all the while lacking the professional insight to zero-in on dad's ADHD. She wants to tell him about the real outcome of his advice. Professionally speaking, he needs to know.

Would have been nice to have heard it

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Wed, 08/27/2014 - 23:06

ChrisChris,

Wow! This is SO VERY TRUE: . Why don't the counselors mention the likelihood of a selfish reaction when the non-ADHD house administrator takes a sabbatical? The ADHD spouse does not say "Wow I had no idea you took care of so much work." Instead for a lot of us, the reaction sounds more like, "You have no cause to punish me like this."

I am thinking it would have been a comfort if I had at least have heard from the counselor, "What is happening is a common occurrence, and here is how you can deal with it."

I so appreciate you sharing with us. It has been so insightful. Thank you.

We Paid $100 out of pocket

Submitted by SherriW13 on Thu, 08/28/2014 - 14:41

We Paid $100 out of pocket per session for a counselor for almost two years who only identified my anger and nothing of my husbands ADHD. I complained of compulsive spending, also. I had every untreated symptom nailed down for him and he NEVER even seemed to entertain the idea that my husband might have something going on that might be contributing to my anger. He stopped dead in his tracks once and said "why are you so angry?" and I told him I hadn't always been angry and he looked at me as if I were full of crap. Very humiliating. I, too, would like talk to him and let him know how horribly wrong things have gone and how my husband went another four or five years undiagnosed because he failed to see anyone's fault but my own. It was helpful to see my anger...it was the beginning of my dealing with it...but I left feeling crazy, mean, stupid, controlling, evil, and undeserving.

Wow, would like to do the same

Submitted by dedelight4 on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 10:35

Chrischris, love your post. I would like to do the same with telling a counselor they "didn't get it". Eight years ago, when my husband was diagnosed with ADHD (he's 58 now) he saw a psychiatrist for 2 years. The psychiatrist did NOT tell my husband hardly anything about ADHD. There was no instruction in how to deal with it, how it affects the person AND the family around them, etc. Then, we both saw a marriage counselor who supposedly "specialized" in adult ADHD. She didn't tell us anything EITHER, in how to deal with his condition.

But, they BOTH concentrated on me for crying, being upset, feeling betrayed, etc.( This was while my husband was in the middle of a long term affair.) Neither counselor would DEAL with my husband's betrayal OR his ADHD, but they sure lambasted me for being "upset". I felt like I was being abused all over again. It was much EASIER for them to concentrate on the person with the "obvious" problems like crying, being grief stricken, hurt and hardly able to cope, than it was focusing on what was CAUSING a lot of this anguish. Never ONCE did either of them talk about his affair, or his behavior to both of us. And we had to pay MONEY for this. And for 2 years my husband went to a psychiatrist 60 dollars a visit, for him to "gripe" about his life and his wife. It was insane.

I would LOVE to go back to both of these people and ping them in the head and say "What were you THINKING?". I've learned more about ADHD and the behavior on this web site than I have in over 2 years of counseling. What does that say? A LOT.

get back in touch with the marriage counselor <= YES

Submitted by JewelD on Wed, 10/22/2014 - 01:48

>Mom told me she decided to get back in touch with the marriage counselor who had urged her to challenge her enabling behaviors etc all the while lacking the professional insight to zero-in on dad's ADHD. She wants to tell him about the real outcome of his advice. Professionally speaking, he needs to know. <

Absolutely. We wasted 12 weeks and over $1000 on a "supposedly" ADHD-experienced therapist, only to discover his only experience was with one adult client who'd been diagnosed & treated as a kid. NO couples like me ADHD/ODD fiance' and me. What a circus! Seeing that guy only made things worse - My Fiance' just lied, raged and contradicted me in every session, and then acted like nothing happened when we left - every time. By the time I'd educated BOTH of them to adult ADHD symptoms, my ex/fiance said he "never want to be married", (after 4 years of engagement) so I told him to move out.

He doesn't want to move out - he says he's scared (b/c he knows how he crashes when he's on his own, w/o an enabler...) but I told him he couldn't have it both ways.

He's out his week, Amicably, but out.

Yup...

Submitted by JewelD on Tue, 10/21/2014 - 17:55

>The downside was that the divorce was not good for our Dad. He forfeited the well-oiled family machine that kept all of his plates spinning for so many years.<

Yup.

That's exactly why I'm throwing my stoically untreated ADHD ex-fiance' out right now. Let him experience life without me, the one who kept an amazing, artful place, and economically to boot. Our life together was sweet, but he started treating my place like a hotel. Though it may seem like I "need" more of a life, I like working from home! But that doesn't mean he can "vampire" my time, after time-debting his, being chronically sleep-deprived and double-booked...

He's about to get a very rude awakening! ;)

Food for thought

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Sun, 08/24/2014 - 20:44

ChrisChris,

Your comments are thought provoking for me. I tried my best to keep my children's childhood magical and fun. "Being a grown-up" comes quickly and lasts a long time.

My children are both in their early 20s. I guess it would be interesting to hear what they thought of their growing-up years. I thought I kept it fun, and exciting, and kept adult stuff away from them. By the time they hit their late teen,s they heard us arguing at night, after they had gone to bed. We did not have nasty drag-out name-calling sessions - but I did share my disappointment in having to carry lots of responsibility, and feeling I was all alone in accomplishing my thoughts and plans in child rearing.

I NEVER left my children as infants alone with their Dad. He was just oblivious to them. I thought it was a Dad thing. Unless a child is ill or injured, they usually cry for only a handful a reasons - which are all easily attended to - they are hungry, have a wet/poopy diaper, need a drink of water, or need a nap. Attend to the need - problem solved.

My children adored their Daddy. You just never knew what fun thing he would come up with or make or do. Mom was the reliable, consistent one. That said, when they were late for school, it was my fault - because it was I who took them to school, and helped with their homework, and packed their lunch, and bought their supplies, and filled in their paperwork, and signed their report cards. Mom was all business. Daddy was all fun. Daddy took them every year, out to the tree farm, with a saw and they tramped throught the woods and cut down the Christmas tree. Mom did all the rest - the shopping, decorating, cooking, wrapping, buying outfits, getting ready, planning. They cherish those tree trips! Hmm. :)

Yup, my son cherishes those

Submitted by copingSAH on Mon, 08/25/2014 - 15:20

Yup, my son cherishes those once in a blue moon trips too because they are pretty over-the-top when it happens (usually happens when I am not out with them)

It's like being parched in the desert for ages and all of a sudden there isn't just a bottle of water offered but an oasis for them to drink from. It must feel incredible and to be cherished.

Time and Hyper-Focus

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Tue, 08/26/2014 - 23:10

My spouse has touched many random people by his hyper-focus and kindness and willingness to give wholeheartedly of himself to spend an inordinate amount of time doing things. I love it too - and get overwhelmed at all that he can give while also neglecting his own yard, and finances, etc. Sigh. They have no clue what goes on behind the scenes. They see his random acts of kindness and think this is who he is all the time. I do understand his need for compliments and encouragement. I just do not have enough to give. I grew weary. I was his cheerleader and supporter. However, his constant need is insatiable.

We ALL love gratitude and acknowledgement.

Yep, I cringe when people say how blessed I must be to have him for my husband. They do not see the whole package. If they only knew the balancing act I try to keep on an even keel.

" However, his constant need

Submitted by dedelight4 on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 13:43

" However, his constant need is insatiable. "

TRUE....TRUE. It does get wearisome having to give a grown person so MUCH praise and adoration, when you get little to none in return. And, it never ENDS. Plus, my husband will gravitate to anyone who is praising him over something. "They are just terrific", he will say of someone.......if they are PRAISING him.

I too was the cheerleader for many, many years. I STILL am, but I don't do it as much, because he never took MY compliments as being "real enough". He would BELIEVE compliments if they came from someone outside the family, but would laugh when I gave him compliments and shrug them off. But, yet he still WANTED to get them. I couldn't comprehend this, because hearing validation from my spouse is truly meaningful, but not vice versa. I wonder why they seem to disregard compliments when it comes from their wives/husbands? BUT....still want it at the same time. Do they ever THINK about that/

I really would like to see what he sees to try to understand

Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 14:12

dedelight4,

My spouse was the gentlest, most loving, most listening person I had ever met. The thing that has happened, I think, is he found no internal way to sort the good people from the bad. He was kind, and loving and giving to EVERYONE. Then as time went on, he still gave to people who were undeserving of his affections, and as a result, he slowly got mad at EVERYONE. Now he trusts NO ONE. Not even me, nor his son, nor people who were kind to him all along. And rather than remove from his life the people who hurt him, he is nit-picking things from those who loved him - and he is going at those slight mis-steps with all the vengeance he has. It is so hard for me - because I do not understand. He is so pleased with himself. I am clueless. He is so frustrated that I will not join in and cheer this behavior. I see it as destructive.

He and I have been a couple for so long. We stood a unified front - probably I did in instances I should NOT have. Thus, being A COUPLE, I feel distorted in some of my relationships with family, because as my spouse picks them off one by one with his verbal barrages, I have been just steering clear. My internal self tells me to call them back and let them my spouse and I do NOT share the same opinions in these matters. My common sense tells me, "It is none of my business. Clarifying things will be done if the opportunity presents itself. "

Wow. It really is as clear as mud. This stuff, I do not believe is ADHD. Maybe the end result of how he made choices? I do not know. I hate to watch him self destruct the relationships with people who have loved and respected him all these years.

He clarifies his decisions to do these confrontations, by swinging his huge fist in the air with glee and stating how in all his life he has never hit anyone -yet. Not sure how the man who called himself "the gentle giant" has swung so far in the opposite direction.

My husband is so addicted to

Submitted by SherriW13 on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:28

My husband is so addicted to praise that he over extends himself to anyone whom he feels he can impress...then ends up burnt out and overwhelmed and his family gets the brunt of the negative effects.

I could/would dish out the praise (and sometimes do regardless) if I got simple kindness and a feeling that he considered my feelings in his daily decisions. I know the idea is that if you're kind and considerate even when they aren't, that it will come back to you. It didn't work. It hasn't worked. I've spent months and months doing everything up to and including begging him to just be nice...and stop doing things that hurt me. He hurts me, does things that are completely unacceptable, but then blames me for our problems saying that I don't show him affection and attention. He can be livid, and leave and stay gone all night long, over something like him not feeling I cuddled the right way with him at night while we were sleeping. He did it once. I was cuddling when I went to sleep, couldn't control what I did after that, and he was so mad he left and didn't come home. It's insane that he wants physical touch from me but knows that for MONTHS I have not felt loved by him..and I've told him so. I don't. I haven't felt like he loves me for more than a year. It's hard to praise someone and be their cheerleader when there is such a black cloud hanging over the entire marriage and it just keeps sending storm after storm.

These are all amazing

Submitted by dedelight4 on Tue, 08/26/2014 - 19:17

These are all amazing posts. They are deep looks into the hearts and souls of those who are trying....and trying....and trying. It's also heartbreaking. My story is much the same as most of you know already, but there are some differences. One difference is that I didn't become the nagging wife, and take on ALL responsibility. I took on way too much than I should have, but I told my husband I wasn't going to nag him, even when he wanted me to......"to remind him of things".....he used to say. I told him in the first year of our marriage that he was an adult and he didn't need me to constantly remind him of everything because I had so many things to remember and keep track of myself. I stuck to that, all these years (31) but even though I put back on him his own responsibilities, I STILL ended up doing so many more things than I should have. Plus, there was still all the chaos and turmoil of undiagnosed and untreated ADHD, and the poor coping strategies that were learned along the way to deal with an unknown variable. There is ENOUGH to deal with in life and marriage without adding an undiagnosed mental disorder, but I wish I had known earlier.

My point is though, even though I did many things differently like, (I wasn't a nag and didn't nag him about all the undone stuff) (didn't call him names or yell or scream) (tried to be as patient throughout all this as possible, even though I didn't know what was happening with us) (got counseling and read every book I could get my hands on) things DIDN'T turn out any different with us, than it would have if I had done all the OTHER stuff. I stopped reacting to anything he did or said that was offensive and that only made a small difference. We both still ended up being hurt and lonely. So, I'm not quite sure WHAT it takes besides the ADHD person themselves getting a handle on their condition and DEALING with it.........and THEN........together getting the counseling and help that is needed to make a marriage WORK, to where both people are more enjoying their lives. It really IS hard when you are trying to have a marriage yet both people are living quite separate lives, and coming together on only a few things.

I did react with anger and

Submitted by SherriW13 on Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:38

I did react with anger and nagging and controlling behavior. However, I stopped all of it, laid my anger down, and decided I wanted better. That process started 4-5 years ago...but it wasn't until about 2 years ago that I started having a lot of success with detaching and not engaging with him. In the last year, I've come further than I ever dreamed. I still get panicked and backslide, but for the most part I do not contribute to the drama and I definitely do not nag or try to control him. It hasn't worked for me either. He's worse now than he ever was.

I agree...there is absolutely nothing that can be done if the ADHD spouse will not address their issues, own them, acknowledge them, and want to change. When my husband was not drinking, was taking meds, was in counseling, and we were in church was the best he's ever been. Now he drinks daily and although he takes meds, the drinking cancel those out. He's always depressed, negative, and having a pity party.

my life too

Submitted by Sade88 on Thu, 10/16/2014 - 10:46

It is crazy how much of my life is reflected in posts on this forum. My husband always finds a way to blame me or get angry with ME for HIS shortcomings. I truly try to separate his ADD behavior from the person he is when ADD isn't in play, but it is hard. What is really ridiculous is that there are medical professionals who don't believe ADD/ADHD is real. My husband sees a neurologist for his sleep problems. He (the doctor) doesn't believe ADD is real. All he needs is about 30 minutes on this forum to see that this is for real. But my husband does get meds from a psychiatrist. Now if he will go to counseling, we may be able to salvage our marriage.

It has been my experience in

Submitted by dvance on Thu, 10/16/2014 - 11:54

It has been my experience in life and from reading here that ADHD folks don't think they have shortcomings, so in their minds there is nothing to address. Either they don't see anything wrong at all OR they can't admit it OR they think they are quirky and delightful and childlike and fun and it's the rest of us that are boring and tedious and naggy and not-fun. Virtually every counselor we have seen, I end up with a laundry list of how I am supposed to behave to make HIS life easier. When I can talk to him that he will actually retain the information, how to ask first before a big conversation (like, "are you able to listen to me right now??), how to give out only the absolute most important pieces and in small doses so he doesn't get flooded. And then what to do when the information isn't retained-how to check in, give reminders, send texts or emails, make lists, put things on a calendar AND check in to make sure he is checking the calendar. One counselor actually had my husband hang two hooks in our walk in closet--one had three big rings/washers on it. I was allowed to ask him three questions per day--after each question he would move a ring from the AVAILABLE hook to the USED hook and when I used up those three questions I had to wait until the next day to ask any more. I felt like a preschooler. I am done turning my self inside out to make HIS life easier. His life is already easy--he only pays attention to those things that interest him for as long as they hold his interest. How cool would that be??

I wish I could have his life...

Submitted by FindingHope on Thu, 10/16/2014 - 12:59

My ADHD husband is OBSESSED with specific hobbies. We have talked about it everyday of our 10 year relationship. If only he could give me or his kids that type of attention. I so wish I could forget all off my family duties and just love something like a hobby. I can't even remember what I like or liked. When I say he needs to stop focusing on these hobbies, he denies any such interest. Ok, well that is all you post about on social media all day. He compliments all his favorite athletes and musicians but has not said "I Love You" or a single compliment to me in 10 years. He will slide a "love ya" in a vm but never to my face. Is that ADHD too?

When I tell him he needs to go to counseling for ADHD, he tells me "so this is all my fault?" Uhh, I keep explaining that it isn't his fault but that he needs to take responsibility for this and at least try to get help. He is on medication but he only takes it for work. I have cancer and I didn't wait for anyone to make a doctor's appointment for me!

His Dr,. that gives him medication, told him "I don't think you are lazy" and I almost fell over laughing. Only because I work twice as hard to keep our life afloat and get us out of all the financial messes. I do everything! I don't think my husband is lazy but he was raised by an ADHD mom and dad and had no responsibilities, accountability, and was spoiled. He doesn't even have any idea what it takes to actually take care of a family and doesn't care. He doesn't lift a finger unless I get upset because I am overwhelmed. I had to quit my job to keep up with everything. I help him with his career and counsel him regarding what to do in his career because he has problems with authority (surprise) and use to get fired all the time.

Anyway, I am thankful for finding this site because I seriously thought I was crazy for many years. Now I know I'm not alone!

Thank you all for sharing.

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