Recently there's been debate on the forum on whether it's irresponsible to carry on with problem-ridden ADHD-non marriages. When it's hard, should we just end things?
I'd like to add another perspective. Have been reading about French sociologist Eva Illouz who says women are often unhappy and emotionally unfulfilled in today's romantic relationships. This is thought to be partly because men as a group tend to use emotional distancing to excert power. I've also spoken to friends who describe a lot of anger and clashing needs in marriage. Half of marriages end in divorce, often in mid-life, at least in my country. Also, there is a lot of fighting and disharmony is all kinds of family relationships. Experts say it's because with those closest to us, we tend to express those sides of ourselves that we are least proud of.
So I'm wondering how, in challenged ADHD-non marriages, we are to know that our struggles are on a whole other scale? We're expecting living with someone to be hard. Every family is pretty impenetrable from the outside, so it's not easy to compare hardships or understand how other people's partners function. Some of us weren't aware ADHD existed. Or had no idea it was the reason for our partner's difficulties, depression, anxiety and tantrums. I also wonder whether ADHD is hugely underdiagnosed. Otherwise, why would so many women I describe the misery of marriage to untreated severe ADHD to, shrug and say: That's me and my husband exactly.
At this point, I'm amazed that any couple can stick it out for any period of time.
I feel, however, that the love issue is very complex. My feelings about my ex-husband reach over the entire spectrum and are simultaneously true, even if they show up one at a time. Still wish I could by sheer creativity have shoehorned my stressed out self and that incomprehensible mind of his into being the happy couple we once were.
Eva Illouz also claims she doesn't believe in therapy, because our discomfort is due to structural problems in society rather than something individual that we can work to change.
If we even do change. I have this feeling I will never understand anything about the ADHD universe, and it's not for not trying. And ADHDers rarely seem to enter my universe.
I feel very humble in this. Why do we try so hard to save the relationship and the family? How should we protect ourselves when integrity is lost so gradually, so inexplicably? It's rather like being a frog in a kettle. How to defend ourselves when everyone around, family and friends, like the ADHD spouse and don't acknowledge our cries for help? We might do what I did and think the threat was outside the nuclear family. Work demands, difficult relatives, stressful society. But the reason I almost caved with stress was him.
I'd be interested to hear your views on staying or breaking up.
Food for thought
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
So much content to ponder there Swedish. It really was refreshing to read because we (Nons specifically) can easily get wrapped up in this coocoon and become so focused (or co-dependant as I'm finding out about myself) on it that we can't see the wood from the trees. Thank you for writing this and you've definitely given me some food for thought over the next while. I have to have a think about where I stand and what I think about what you wrote, with pushing myself out of my own comfort zone to really explore that bc it has crossed my mind loads and I find that I'm often wondering 'what the helll happened!?!?!?' because for me, ADHD was surpressed so much that I had NO IDEA - literally none - that my husband had this until March 2020 when a series of events happened in a 3 week period - the pandemic and WFH being one of many major upheavels - and then all s**t broke loose. I can honestly look back and claim that I had no idea - neither did he - that he had ADHD. Also, we had a child with a severe medical issue when he was quite young, so that also played a part in the masking. And I don't blame my husband in any of that, we had to do what we had to do and it sucked and it was hard and it was 6-8 years of HARDNESS and fighting for our child's life - so the cokmmon case of ADHD rearing its head with children coming along and the day to day grind and boringness....well this didn't happen until much later for us bc we weren't normal or healthy or whatever bc we had a very sick kid on our hands...and once that kid improved and we started to move on....well that's when things started happening and then escalate in 2020.
I say all that above to say this: while in the same breath that we have learned how untreated ADHD symptoms can and do wreak havoc on our relationships/marriage and that its quite common....in the next breath...how in the HECK are we meant to figure out what is the cause of our strains in our relationships when it could be structural breakdowns in society, the patriarchy, just normal hormornes s**t happening, ADHD, normal relationship and long-term relationship work...or anything else!?!?!?!?!??!
Radical acceptance sucks
Submitted by Off the roller ... on
And with that, I've also realised that radical acceptance is one of the HARDEST things to do and to be honest, I'm not sure I want to do it bc in doing so, it means that I'm looking for ways to stay and perhaps have my ADHD partner molded/changed into what I WANT or NEED. And that's not right, right?
Acceptance
Submitted by adhd32 on
No worries about the molding and changing, you really can't change anyone but yourself. If he isn't working on himself, change is unlikely. However, you can change your focus to work on yourself to figure out who you are and what you want out of your life going forward apart from him and his issues. Your future is yours to live, you choose if you want to be a codependent caretaker. You can stay married and accept him as he is which will require you to institute many non-negotiable boundries and work arounds and live separate lives protecting yourself from the fallout of his actions. I came on this site years ago to disagree many times about why, why, why he just won't change, can't hold up his end, etc. Can't or won't? It doesn't matter, it isn't going to happen. So, you are left with, "is this the life I want forever more?" Only you can answer this. Therapy will help you clear the fog and help you take the focus off of him and focus on your desires, unmet needs, unrealized dreams. With the therapist's help you can devise an action plan for YOU. If you think you are ready to leave, do some preparation and learn your options so you are not blindsided by the legal system and you know what to expect. You did nothing to cause him to lose the hyper-focus on you, you had no way of knowing it was a period in his life that will not return. You may feel the connection on vacation or other less stressful times when the problems of life are on hold but that is not the person he is, the courtship phase was all a facade.
Hyper-focus dissipates and you get something terribly different
Submitted by Will It Get Better on
As the ADHDer's hyper-focus on you dissipates you are left trying 'to get back' to those enjoyable days that inspired your commitment. But it's gone and was never 'real' in the first place. Your life becomes a house of mirrors and you lose trust in your own perceptions. ('How did this happen? What went wrong?') Your ADHD partner does not seem to perceive that anything has changed (other than you 'nagging' constantly). But how is that possible? Your ADHD partner is mentally ill. Your conception of 'logic' is different (sometime inexplicably different) for your ADHD partner. You can keep blowing more air into the balloon of your relationship but your partner will keep punching holes in the balloon (and likely blame you). It is not 'fair; it is not 'right', but it is real and you are there.
It's a natural instinct, I believe
Submitted by CANTGOBACK (not verified) on
A couple of fundamental aspects of the human experience are procreation and survival. I can only speak to the feminine experience.... and understand that estrogen plays a role in a woman's tendency to work to preserve relationships. Throughout history, relationships of all kinds have been critical to the survival of the species, especially when children are involved. Attachment goes much deeper than feeling good and trying to get emotional needs met... it is the foundation of provision and protection for the individuals and the offspring.
The emphasis on romantic love is relatively new compared to the emphasis on practical partnerships when it comes to coupling. In harsher times, the suitability of a mate was determined by the ability to partner in the practical matters of life.
The problem that I see with dysfunctional trends is that not only do these toxic relationships not only fail to meet emotional needs (higher up on the hierarchy of human needs), they fail to meet even basic practical needs and in fact become damaging to fundamental security. In the process, the participants develop and maintain coping mechanisms harmful to the self and to the other, and also to any children involved.
There is no easy solution, but I personally believe that the original motivation for being in a relationship tends to be to enhance wellbeing,in regards to the mundane, the emotional and spiritual, or both. When you have a dynamic that proves to be damaging without consistent and meaningful improvement, it becomes a matter of self preservation to use discernment about continuing the relationship or not. My personal choice is to let go of damaging situations over which I have no control, as I seek to protect my own wellbeing on every level.
Again, I am not implying that leaving is easy or what we all dream of. And, I have found that in spite of cultural norms which may be unsupportive, or any other contributing factor, we as humans do have the power of discernment so that we can choose and create situations that contribute to our personal wellbeing and health, in spite of difficulty.
Whether or not an individual is able to choose their way out of a toxic situation depends on a number of factors, including but not limited to financial conditions, attachment insecurity, childhood conditioning, cultural influences... the list goes on. For me, the internal drive to go beyond surviving and into thriving has enabled me to overcome all those obstacles and more, in order to live a life not constantly threatened and diminished by another.
I actually don't have a bunch of fighting and discord in my family or my other relationship, personal or professional. When it became apparent that my ex adhd (undx) partner could not partner with me in ways that I know are good and safe and healthy for me personally, I opted out, because I consider it my responsibility to myself and the people I love and who love me, to practice good self care so that I am not broken and unable to show up in a positive way for myself and for them (speaking specifically about my young adult children and my grandchildren).
Why do we try
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
Speaking only for myself, I think the reason I stayed years beyond what I should have were:
1. I fell in love with the hyperfocus him and it took me years after that stage ended to realize that was an illusion, however unintentional.
2. I had a plan for my life that didn't involve getting divorced in midlife. It took me a long time to face this new narrative for my life as reality.
3. I deeply feared him getting any sort of custody as he's just not up to the job of parenting in any way.
4. I think it has a lot to do with either my personality or programming. Others in my situation would have walked in 5% of the time with 5% of the problems we had, but I stayed and suffered and toiled until I was a shell of a person. Why? I know I need to figure this out so nothing like this happens again.
Unmanaged ADHD is the reason we divorced but I'm the reason I suffered for longer than I needed to. I wish I'd left sooner. I hope as we share our stories that more women (men too) can feel empowered not to settle, tolerate and suffer in unhealthy relationships.
I'm the reason
Submitted by adhd32 on
It is difficult to admit. We change, take on more, require less from them and then complain they aren't doing enough. If only they would just... All big clues conveniently ignored because we wanted them to still be that person we origionally knew and maybe, just maybe, if I get it all done and they don't have to be bothered we will be happy again. And maybe that works for a while until they are not watching the kids when it is critical and one of them gets injured. Then your eyes open a little and you think "how could they be so irresponsible? " so you take another thing off their duty roster. This is the crossroads but no one knows your struggles and you are embarrassed and don't seek out help bc he was capable and responsible in the beginning. But that wasn't really him. It never goes back to the beginning and all those red flags big and small that we denied, minimized, and explained away were clues to the future. We try to get it back with kindness and gentle reminders and all the recommendations offered by experts and when they don't work we become desperate and lower ourselves to pleading, tears, and finally arguments. Internalizing and admitting that the adhd person isn't going to change even though they claim to be all in is the most difficult first step to moving on.
adhd32
Submitted by c ur self on
So true!...I find living this life of boundaries, (even though it has produced some accountability and a more peaceful environment) it's quiet a lonely existence...When the mind of an individual isn't capable of a mutual responsible existence, all work a rounds (boundaries etc..) are debilitating to the fruit of a healthy attachment....I've stayed by conviction, and due to mental and emotional illness....So it is....
That's so right
Submitted by 1Melody1 on
That's all just so dead-on, adhd32.
Staying or breaking up?
Submitted by c ur self on
(IMO) We stay because it's inherent to our creation...We are carnally programmed for satisfaction and pleasure as a one flesh entity...It's been this way since the Garden of Eden...(Adam, Eve)...What is destructive to this truth is selfishness...unbelief or faulty belief...Disobedience to the God given structure of our homes and relationships...
Examples....If we take a job...Walk into the boss's office and say, "I know you are the boss, but, this is how it's going to be!...How long would we last? If I drive 90 in a 60 mph zone, and get stopped...And I say to the officer...I know you are the law keeper, but, this is how it's going to be!...Big ticket, possible jail? If I join a sports team and I show up on day one, and say to the coach...I know you are the coach, but, this how it's going to be!...My playing career would be over before it begun....Same for our marriages...If we enter the union with faulty concepts, built around our own selfish desires, there will be limited attachment and no trust, at best...When the words submission & sacrifice are offensive to us, only power struggles built around our own selfishness follows...The hard part about marriage is, one spouse can hold and practice obedience to life producing values, but, if the other does not, there will be difficulty, division and limited attachment....
I don't know, and have never heard of Eva Illouz, but, I do agree in part that she is close on the structural problems in society being a major part of the problem...If our belief systems are faulty, then the end product will also be faulty....If a therapist or counselor's main teaching focus isn't built around lasting value's, that are God given, then we have no lasting truth (firm foundation) to build on....So when the storms of life come (as they always do) our relational houses will fall...
c
Great thoughtful responses
Submitted by felicity on
Lots of really interesting points being made on this thread, so much to think about. Thank you all, will be pondering on what you have said over the weekend.
I agree
Submitted by Swedish coast on
I agree! Thank you everyone for your insights. It's stimulating to get all your perspectives.
I am right in the middle of this now
Submitted by Dagmar on
Basically it's because every time I've had enough, he hyperfocuses on me and makes changes. Every time. It's hard enough to get the gumption to break up with someone and leave, and then when you do, they suddenly start making the changes. Of course, it was too late to fix whatever big issue caused you to leave, but then you're just "holding on to the past."
Actually, that's not entirely true. Twice I saved up enough to leave and he lost his job. I would have left this fall if I had the money. And now he's making changes. The marriage counselor attempted to fire us again (she does that sometimes) at our last appointment, and I refused. It's hard. All of our appointments are about the positive changes he was making. And there are so many. Except we got into an argument and he dropped that he thought that if I were really serious about fixing the insanely huge financial hole he put us in, I would have gotten a full-time job, and is insisting that the only problem with his current job is that it's too far away for him to help with the kids. So no matter what he is saying, he's still expecting me to fix the situation. He doesn't understand that my part-time job pays as much as a full-time job would once you adjust for the cost of childcare. Same with when the kids were little. Yeah, he wasn't actually saying he thought it was right that his father never changed a diaper, but he brought it up a lot when I would tell him that putting the dishes on top of the dishwasher was insulting and not helpful at all.
Our therapist has been good about getting him to see the societal unfairness. She had us watch Fair Play and use the Fair Play deck. Both things helped a lot. Especially watching Fair Play. My husband kept saying "what's so bad about that?" and I would then call out what would happen next.
But the reason I got into this in the first place? I had a terrible childhood. My mother probably had ADHD, and she definitely had bipolar disorder. Every time I wanted anything for myself, I was called selfish. Every time I achieved anything, I had to be knocked down a peg. Her reasoning for that varied, but basically it was because I was born rotten. So I honestly thought my place in life was to take a backseat to everyone and be happy for what I had. When I was 40, I was invited on a free trip to Spain. I just had to pay airfare. I had an actual panic attack because I spent $1,000 on a plane ticket. It was the most I'd ever spent on myself in my life. That's when I realized things had to change.