As I've mentioned in a number of my posts, my ADD spouse and I separated several years ago because I just couldn't take dealing with his ADD issues any more. Even though he had been on medication and in counseling for 10 years, there were still many problems, especially in the area of communication. As our marriage disintegrated, the communications got worse. So when we decided we wanted to try to salvage our marriage, my husband's counselor (who also knew me from some joint counseling sessions we had done) suggested that we should try a different approach to communication. Instead of discussing things at any old time, and getting into communications problems constantly, he proposed that we have several formal meetings each week where we would talk about problems and conflicts, matters that might require negotiation, plans, and status -- just like in a business meeting. The rest of the time outside the meetings we would only converse on pleasant topics -- like social chit-chat, or anything else we both enjoyed, unless it was something exceptionally urgent (like, "the house is on fire"). The intent was to create a context for my husband to be able to focus his attention on the items we needed to discuss, while freeing him the rest of the time from having to try to pay attention when his mind was already engaged with something else.
With some reservations on both sides, we began scheduling meetings and trying to work within this framework. I found it frustrating to "hold off" talking about matters that arose that were important to me, until our meeting -- when I see a problem, I want to tackle it NOW! -- and my husband initially had trouble with being prepared for the meetings, but we adjusted after a couple of months. Business meetings are usually set for definite periods of time, and we quickly learned that we needed to do the same -- at first, my husband could only maintain focus for an hour at best. Often that meant that topics got deferred to a later meeting, which was very frustrating for me. But as we became more practiced, he was able to increase his focus time, so this problem eventually went away. Normally, people don't yell at each other in a business meeting, it's unprofessional -- at first we didn't implement this concept in our meetings, and we ended up with some meetings being just one concentrated yelling spree. Since my husband can't think at all when he gets upset, our discussions were going nowhere, so we adopted this business policy as well. This was very difficult for me to implement, since I'm an impatient angry sort of person by nature, but it was well worth it since the reduction of the emotional tension made it much more possible for my husband to apply his mind to the subjects at hand.
Other problems arose: my husband took few notes, and so some of things we'd talk about never got "on his radar screen" for follow-up; when he took notes, they were often so vague that he'd misinterpret them later on and then we'd be at odds about what had been discussed; and worst, he'd forget the date/time and not show up, or show up late (even though we created a regular schedule!!). These were serious roadblocks, and it took some pretty hard work to deal with them. To help my husband take better notes, we'd compare notes at the end of each discussion, or at the end of the meeting, to make sure we had both captured the same information -- he would read back his notes, and I'd identify any discrepancies with mine, and then we would mutually resolve the discrepancies. In the process of making sure we were "on the same page", we'd also be able to ensure that his notes were more detailed and less vague. As far as the lateness/forgetting problem went, we agreed to implement a rule that if he failed to renegotiate a meeting date/time ahead of time, and was late or a no-show, that the meeting would be rescheduled at *my* convenience (but I had to be fair and not just schedule a bad time for him as "pay-back").
There were other policies we found useful to implement, through trial and error. Since it wasn't certain there would be enough time to cover everything, we decided to cover "logistical" topics first (e.g., who has what appointments coming up this week, who is picking up the dry cleaning when, etc.), then topics where some decision was necessary, project status, and such, and finally more nebulous topics that involve some negotiation or conflict or exploration. Before we instituted the meetings, my husband often felt that I was always the one driving the discussions, so to avoid that we developed a policy that we would address his agenda before mine (not necessarily his entire agenda -- but his logistics before mine, his project status before mine, etc.) When my husband would agree to take on some task in our meetings, he'd make notes about it but wouldn't necessarily set a particular target date -- and without a target date, he would have no reminder alarm in his PDA or anywhere else, so it often wouldn't get done -- so now we set up a target date in the meeting as well. When I would ask for status on some item that he was supposed to be working on, he'd sometimes have a hard time remembering what he was supposed to have been doing, and it slowed down our meetings a lot to go over it -- so now he does a brief review of his notes of the previous meeting before we start each new one. We fiddled with the frequency of our meetings at times, but generally have found that three times a week works best for us. We both sometimes relapse into bad old habits, but we now have the mechanisms in place to correct those problems when they occur.
Once we ironed out these wrinkles (after about six months), we found that the meetings not only accomplished their intended purposes of providing a structured context for discussion and negotiation plus better interactions outside the meetings, but they some pleasant unexpected results as well. My husband has become much better at follow-through, because he knows there will be a status check in an upcoming meeting, and this has reduced my need to nag. I've learned how to address conflicts without yelling (well, most of the time). We have a much more structured dynamic for communications, which leads to fewer misunderstandings. My husband's note-taking has improved so greatly that we rarely need to do re-caps anymore, which shortens the meetings and again contributes to better follow-through. And the meetings as we have set them up provide a method for coming back to unresolved problems, with the chance to review the notes and reflect during the intervening time -- this has been an important element in reaching an accord on many of the more fundamental complex problems surrounding ADD behaviors.
I've resisted the urge to end with a bullet-list summary of "rules" for setting up such meetings: this kind of setup should not be a straight-jacket, and I think that each couple has different problems and therefore needs for different rules which only they can discover as they work through this kind of process themselves. I think the only real rule is the original intent -- to create a context for focused attention on interpersonal matters, and to exclude those discussions from the rest of your interactions. This isn't a perfect system -- it doesn't always work smoothly every time -- but it's a very helpful framework. Suffice it to say that these meetings were a key component in ending our separation -- I really don't know if we could have resolved our communications problems without them -- and we have found them so helpful, we are still holding them more than four years later! They can definitely be a powerful tool in the ADD-coping toolbox.
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Comments
Great suggestion, Thanks!
Submitted by tazangel36 on
Arwen, thanks for a frank and positive post. I'm always looking for tools to help my husband and I work better together. Poor guy, as ADHD married a type-A OCD, so anything that can create less friction for us is "win".
I not only appreciate the suggestion you have here, but the really honest way you tackled it. You were frank about laying out your faults, not just pinning all the blame on the AD spouse (which can be really easy for us non-AD spouses to do [totally guilty over here]). I also really like that you tackled this post after you and your spouse had the system ironed out, and it proved successful. That gives me hope.
Luckily, my husband recognizes that he needs help in some areas, and isn't afraid to ask me for help. For my part, I'm trying really, really hard to be his wife, not his mother, and not his nag. I want to be someone he looks forward to spending time with. But at the same time, I want to look forward to our relationship as husband and wife; to remember why we fell in love and married in the first place, and to not have AD take over our lives or our marriage.
We recently started journaling, at my suggestion, to keep track of "just facts", like when one spouse is getting alone-time, when one spouse is "shirking" duties, and I think the journaling will help us get a clear picture of what's really going on, and then we can tackle our schedules and any resentment from there. But I'd love to implement this meeting idea! I think it'll have to wait for a couple of months, until we get the journaling down, so I'm not throwing too many things at him at once...
Thanks again for a great post!
Another brilliant post, Arwen!
Submitted by BreadBaker on
I'm, quite literally, in the middle of a communication nightmare with my (separated) husband. He won't read this site, but it's so comforting to me to have confirmation that I'm not the source of the crazy-making. He isn't either--it's this issue.
Arwen, whenever I read your posts, I notice that your husband and mine, and then you and me, have very similar personalities! My guy means well--really, he does--but his actions would drive any wife crazy. Until I understood what was the real culprit in our problems, I was very prone to think he was just being a jerk, and reacted very badly. I've learned so much from you and this site. We'll be getting divorced, I'm sure, so it's too late for me and my husband (I love him, but how can you live with someone in willful denial?), but your posts have helped me so much. I've reexamined the way I interacted with him, and I did escalate things by being upset and nagging. The strange part is . . . I've noticed that no matter how I react, by being upset and accusatory or calm and positive, his reaction is the same. He still feels "attacked" because he's being stopped from doing everything exactly his way.
Anyway, your post on communication is spot-on. I wish we'd had the opportunity to implement its suggestions.
Good Advice
Submitted by Looking4Help on
I, too, am learning that my wife and I need to structure things a certain way in order for her to successfully remember and follow through on those things she clearly WANTS to remember and follow through on. And I am also learning that I need to not spend so much time nagging and giving "corrective" feedback. The idea of regular meetings setting aside time to talk about things, and a structure for doing so, makes good sense to me. I'm definitely going to think about how this might be helpful for us. And I am confident she will be very willing to give it a try as well, as we BOTH want to spend less time angry and arguing and MORE time enjoying each others' company.
A question I have is this: Have you worked on how to "limit" the amount of time your husband spends talking about things he is involved with and/or thinking about? I find that my wife is often a running commentary - constantly talking about whatever she is thinking about. And often, she is talking about problems (things and/or people) she is working on or difficulties she is encountering. I often experience her talking about things as "complaining" though she definitely says that is NOT what she is doing. When I request that she talk less about some things, or at least not talk about the same thing every day, she often replies that I, too, go on and on about some things. Perhaps I do, but I'm guessing it's not as often as she thinks (she just loses interest very quickly. And when I DO go on and on about something, it's something I am excited about and something positive, not negative. Any advice in this area?
The ADHD brain works this
Submitted by Normal Mom on
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kad035, that "talking" you're
Submitted by tazangel36 on
kad035, that "talking" you're referring to seems to be a trait in common with most attention-deficit folks. The problem I think you're running into is simply the differences between men and women. Let me elaborate: when a guy comes to you with a problem, you suggest solutions,and he leaves happy, right? When your wife or another woman comes to you with a problem, and you suggest solutions, she gets frustrated, right? The reason being, in my experience anyway, is that men are typically solvers, while women are commiserators. My husband and I had to hash this out to avoid frustrations between us. As we ride home from work, my husband chatters about his day; partly to involve me in it, but also to use me as a sounding board to figure out his own issues. I wonder if this is what is going on between you and your wife? She's trying to verbally work through an issue, and not expecting (possibly not wanting) any solutions from you?
My husband and I are the opposite
Submitted by Sueann on
My husband (ADD) wants to be the one that gives the emotional feedback and hugs and I (not ADD) want to explore the practical solutions to the problem. If he tells me one more time that "everything will be OK" or "if that happens, we'll take it one day at a time" I'm gonna scream.
Gender stereotypes are not always true.
kad035, sorry I missed this
Submitted by arwen on
My husband doesn't go on and on about things very often -- so I don't tend to try to limit the amount of time he spends doing that. Usually if he goes on and on, it's because it's something he is *really really* keen about, and I would not want to dampen his enthusiasm on those rare occasions. There are times when he will launch into a diatribe of complaints, but again they are so rare, i figure he must really need to vent, so I don't act to limit that either.
But he does sometimes spend an extremely long time thinking about things. There are times when we are having a discussion that I ask a question and he starts considering, and I'm still waiting for an answer ten minutes later. Yes, I think ten minutes is a very long time to wait. But sometimes he really needs that long to sort through his thinking. As long as he seems to be making some kind of headway, I feel it's better not to interrupt the process. On the other hand, if it seems like he is going around in circles, we both feel it's better for me to short-circuit that thinking and say something that will help get him back on track towards an answer.
I don't know if this has any relevance to your situation at all. In our house, I'm the much more verbal one, so we obviously have a very different conversational dynamic than you and your wife!
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
spouse out of town
Submitted by Time4Me on
I am new to this and finding wonderful advice. How do I go about scheduling if my adhd spouse is out of town (working) most weeks? He has a job where he flies out on Sunday and comes back home late Friday night. (Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of the airline industry as to what time he leaves and what time he arrives back. If the weather is bad, he may not make it home until Saturday.) We are both exhausted from the responsibilities we carry all week. He just wants to relax and do his own thing and I want a break from home and parenting responsibilities. In addition, with so many chores that need taking care of and we have two teenage boys, there is no time left. It usually ends up with us fighting over his job, which is perfect and a great fit for him, but not for us. We have tried emailing and you would think that would work because there are no verbal or physical cues to misinterpret, but I get accused of writing angry messages (which I admit I have done and are usually related to some mishap I had to clean up after), but most of the time when I write, I get no response. When I ask why, either his response is to busy, too tired or he does not know what to say. Either way that negotiate what we are trying to accomplish.
Have you tried shype? Its
Submitted by Clinging to Life on
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Instant messaging
Submitted by Time4Me on
I have never tried instant messaging with him. It is worth a try. I usually limit my emails to a short paragraph or two. I know if you load too much information at one time, it over loads their circuitry. (I am an expert with our son) I usually spent over an hour composing it, trying to look at it through his eyes, before I send them. I have tried the house cleaner service and he could not understand why I could not keep up with cleaning, since I am home all day. The boys have learned from their mentor and the double whammy is them being teenagers and males, cleaning is not in their repertoire. It takes much prodding before they get it done. It is not that we cannot get rid of the boys for a while; it is that they want male bonding time too. Like build a car or work on motorcycles, go snowboarding. There are only four (one and a half days) weekends to a month and on one Saturday; he is committed to his nonprofit organization. As far as him taking a few days off, that is complicated, as he does not do his scheduling, most of the time they have him scheduled out weeks in advance. At one time, I had him commit to three weeks on, one week off. That lasted two cycles. Trying to set up any type of reoccurring meeting is hit and misses for us. That is part of our marriage problem. I sound as if I am making excuses to your solutions, it is only I have been working on pinning down any type of semi permanent schedule for us for years. I will suggest the instant messaging.
IM and skype both useful longdistance
Submitted by arwen on
Braindrain, my husband and I have and still do use instant messaging at times to help us when we can't physically meet because of a business trip or some such. It really is a help because it is real time, and yet either party can take whatever time they feel they need to formulate a response. In some ways it really is almost custom-made for ADHDers.
We haven't used skype for this purpose, but it is an excellent suggestion! (thanks for bringing it up, ClingingtoLife!!) I've used skype at work to interface with people at remote locations, and Clinging is right that it works very nicely. Skype can be used audio only if you have no webcams, which at least avoids any long-distance phone charges. Both skype and most IM applications allow you to transmit files/documents/attachments which can also be very helpful with remote meetings, for sharing agendas or action items.
As far as the rest of your post goes, I really sympathize, I have been in a pretty similar situation. These are the busiest years you probably will experience in your entire life. As soon as your oldest goes off to college or moves out, it will ease! All I can suggest for the present is the way I managed -- that you try to streamline your lives as much as you can possible manage -- do only what you absolutely have to. I understand your husband is committed to his nonprofit and I applaud his desire to do good, but the next couple of years are the last ones he will have with his children -- once they are out of high school, they will be gone and it will be too late to share anything with them (in fact, the less time he spends with them now, the less likely they will be to come back at all) -- would it really be the end of the world if he cut back his participation in the nonprofit and did his kids some good too???
Hang in there, I know it is tough for all of you, but hopefully one of these ideas will work for you.