This has been such an Odyssey trying to figure out...."who am I with "....that I wanted to make a quick post and say what I've found out and how I see my wife now compared to before I came home from my personal journey here.

I do think my wife is ADHD.  Even though her mother was Bi-polar, I'm thinking less about that now.  The symptoms just are lining up right and I've felt for a long time that are "so much the same in many ways." LOL  That might be an understatement.

But less to do with any diagnosis and more important our relationship together....I'm going with my T on this one....Attachment styles is where it's at. (excuse the dangling participle ...I think that's what it called? lol )

As my T clued me quite some time ago....my wife has a dissmissive/avoidant - fearful/avoidant style which is as I see it....is really the most concerning part of our relationship.  She can so cold, distrusting, hard to get close to and not very empathetic especially when you have a problem.  They say they're the most apt to be critical and intolerant of their partners flaws, rigid in the ability to be flexible (non existent or just barely at times) see things in idealized ways, suspicious of others, but almost the most disturbing thing for me...is the hypocrisy in their thinking about things.

As it is described...the have the highest positive view of themselves and the lowest view of others yet...they have extremely fragile egos and very defensive of anything that looks like or even smells like and hint of criticism towards themselves...but yet, are the most critical of others and intolerant of others flaws? errrrrrr!!!  I'm letting go of that too,

This is something...that drives me nuts sometimes!!!!  My wife is no exception.

As a former anxious-preoccupied who are most likely to see themselves as flawed and see others more positively...no wonder at the very least...I had/have the ability to make friends easily.  I learned a long time ago despite this challenge....tha I like people...and sometimes people like me as long I keep my ADHD symptoms in control which before I knew I had ADHD....was the key motivation to do something about it.

From the old me...to the new me (more secure and pretty solid most of the time)...insecurity was the thing that drives people away so I worked on that early and got use to rejection.  At the very least in a positive way....I was always self motivated to improve any way I can so I could get friends and keep them as long as kept at it.  And here I am doing the same thing but now with a caveat I've learned through all of this.

The new challenge now...in keeping in line with everything I've said.  I want to keep working on our relationship...but on my end... not quite as hard.  My wifes tendencies as they are will make her: reject more, distance herself more, withdraw more, manipulate and try and control more, and use any means she can to gain attention to herself....without considering me into the equation. 

She can be cold as ice and completely uncaring or indifferent with an attitude that says....I'm better than you...but feeling less than inside.  The irony is ridiculous. On one hand...she needs to feel superior....but on the other hand she doesn't feel superior.  On one hand...she takes offense easily....but is mostly offensive outwardly to others.  On one hand...she's needy and clingy and very demanding....but hates that in others and especially men n anything from her. ( the worst aspect of our relationship are these imbalances )

  I'm not needy or clingy...but I'm also not very demanding sometimes to my own determent.  She wants what she wants....but not very willing to earn it or work for it and kind of expects without giving much in return in the from of the "thing" she wants most.  Attention.  She wants it...but as far as attention goes....she wants all of it sometimes.  That's when she gets manipulative and controlling to make sure she'll get it.

On top of this...she has some other co-morbid features to go along with this group of traits in the form of OCD,as well... which sounds like a nightmare to deal with and not very promising.

But as I thought this over and reflected on this a while....I really think it's important to look at the most important aspect all said and done.

We're all human, and we all share that in common.  We all have needs...and some are a little harder to deal with than others.

The list of things I'm going to keep in mind with my wife now I know who I'm with...

Conflict:  To avoid conflict....I will need not to try and compete with her on any of the things I mentioned that fall into special needs for an avoidant personality.  She really is the one competing and if I don't compete and give her what she wants...mostly, this works out fine.

The problems come...when I want what I want.  She is not very responsive and kind of intolerant in meeting my needs and mostly disinterested and indifferent.

This makes for an interesting gender comparison here.  Mostly....men find it difficult when a woman gets into their business too much and want to be involved in everything their husbands do.  With my wife sometimes...she only cares what I do if it effects her in some way?  If she gets what she wants...she could care less what I do?  Caring is problematic in general but theres something odd in how this works for me.  As a man...I want that space to pursue things of interest and I really don't like it when someone is too interested in getting involved in my "things". Somehow...this kind of works and we don't conflict as long as meet those guidelines?

What I am learning better how to do which is the real problem it seems...is to set boundaries with her.  She does not like boundaries or restriction on her....but could care less if I have any which makes that impossible to live with sometimes.

But the thing is....I'm pretty independent and mostly pretty confident ( not as much arrogant but just sure of myself mostly ) Enough to take some hits and be flexible...and I have that going for me.  I can be alone during her withdrawals and be just fine.  I can also live with some rejection as long as it doesn't interfere with what I need to do.  This is the biggest problem to date and that....I'm working on with her.

What this has forced me to do in reality....is to do the things that I'm inherently weak or not very good in doing which by itself...is a positive goal to work on.

As I'm finishing this and thinking about what I need to get some skills in doing in order to work with her and myself at the same time?

Speak directly and forcibly in as few words as possible.  She hates to be told anything...but she's going to have to get over that part.  Asking doesn't work with her.....telling (bluntly as she does with me)  "I'm doing this...and not leaving a lot of room for negotiation." lol

She is a my way or he highway kind of person....but two can play at the game to equal it out.  That may sound like bad advise to some but with our situation...and with Einstein's Special Relativity going on....this is unique situation....and the mother of invention is need...and creatively is the answer. 

That...I have gobs of and some left over. lol

As I said so long ago when my intuition was telling me something.....

                                                 "Nice shoot'in soldier....but two can play at that game"

The defense rests ;)

J

As I have just come to discover with my wife and for those who have difficulty expressing their emotions....for those who yearn for more depth and more meaningful discourse with your spouse....this might be useful to you.

Coming back to some analogies used by my T to help get a better or clearer visual image..

In character again...

As my T has referred to both of us in session together....he pointed out that my wife is a Porcupine sometimes and can be rather sharp and pointed even when you are attempting to be affectionate and nice with her.  This is impossible to predict as it seems....her moods will determine this...and it's not always easy to recognize ahead of time.

She might say that I'm not "reading cues"....but if the consistent and kind of almost daily cue you have to work from at times...is a sour look or look of distress seemingly....ALL the time with little or no change in expression...it makes it impossible to read emotion on her face...when emotion and self expression...seems to be non existent or consistently flat and dour.  I find that I will join her in this if I mirror her and she mirrors me.

But mainly.....I see this look as the norm whether I'm expressing emotion or not.  Actually, even expressing emotion of any kind will make her nervous. (even excitement about something fun or happy exuberance in expression only and never saying a word)  If she's not happy....it's really hard to tell sometimes.

Mostly, what my wife wants to talk about is worry....pretty much not stop.  If she couldn't use the words..."I'm concerned"...or...."I'm worried"...or some kind of description verbally that says....I'm not happy or I'm irritated or I'm nervous and concerned....in adjective form speaking.....you might not never know what she is thinking about which is usually the case.  You can never know what's on some ones mind...unless they tell you and this is pretty much all you get on a regular daily basis.  You'd almost have to be a mind reader...to read my wife's non verbal cues outwardly.  Flat...is the better descriptor here.  That goes with tone of voice as well.

That is, unless she's angry and irritated and that's when the porcupine comes out of her.  She'll say things like..."well, not everything is anger...sometimes it's fear or being afraid."  I've got to tell you....I know what fear looks like.  The same as anger.  They're not that hard to read on a persons face or their body language and there is a difference even though....I am no expert on body language either.

Having said that....if I read her body language....again....what I see doesn't look all that different at all and very little changes on a daily basis.  Mostly...she appears to have one expression and one body read and that would be one of non-expression or even closed instead of open...even if she's relaxed.

As she says these things to me....and after the fact says she has lots of emotions and they're always not angry, dour, sour or closed off....I started to remember another animal character my T has use before.  A  Turtle.  Putting 2 + 2 together here...a Porcupine living inside a Turtle shell fits my wife very well sometimes.  It would appear from the outside as I see her....a pretty good description.  All I see is a hard shell with no expression at all.  And sometimes....but not always....what comes out is the Porcupine...but I never know what I will get and that's always the trouble with trying to predict her ahead of time.

But as I have began to think about this....the problem comes with depth. Of course my wife has depth of emotions and she feels things deeply...but you'd never know it from looking at her...when all you see are these two animals.  She talks about safety a lot...and has lots of concerns about things that she see's as harmful to her which may or may not be true...so fear is a big factor in her thinking already and her emotions there dominate her thought process.

All said and done....she may appear to have a "thick skin" which is probably also true.  She does have a thick skin and not a lot gets through...but before you get very deep into any topic what ever it is...your going to run into a quagmire of emotions that live pretty close to the surface.  Like almost right away.  The depth she has compared to mine before she hit's rock bottom...I would call shallow and not very deep.

In reality...she has a deep range of emotions she feels and feels them intensely at times.  Too intensely to be straight to the point.  But mostly...she is fine and at ease as long as you stay above the water line which is a pretty shallow pond compared to myself.

She does appear this way to me....but taking things from her perspective....Her range may be deep....but her ability to deal with emotionally evoking topics or subjects what ever they are....runs right at the surface.

This makes it impossible to know where that water line is....until you reach.  When that happens....she shut you down, interrupt you and cut you off abruptly....and accuse you or not reading her, being inconsiderate and bludgeoning her with too many words.

With all due credit to myself....I am very aware of this and also very aware of my tendency to carry on and go into great detail about any topic that interests me.  Having said that....this happens even when we're talking about the weather.  You never know with her and that water line changes all the time.

And in reality...you may be just cruising along and having a good old time talking about the weather...and suddenly she'll shut you down and say "I don't want to talk about this."

What I've learned  "I don't want to talk about this" means.....I did want to talk about this when we first started talking....but not any more.  Why that is....I think I just told you.  Maddening, sometimes hurtful....and totally disrespectful to you the speaker...to start a sentence with only half of it spoken...and to get cut off abrutly and get "I don't want to talk about it/this".

Thinking...Okay....I'll change the subject.  Two words into the new topic she get angry. 

"I said....I don't want to talk about it". 

"I'm not...I'm changing the topic????"

"Are you deaf!!!  I said....I don't want to talk about "IT"

"What's "IT"???"

"Leave me alone!!!!!"

"Ah........"

Yelling abusively and angrily..."Why won't you leave me ALONE!!!!!!  I want to be left...ALONE!!!!!!:"

"But........."

" SHUT UP. SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!  LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!!"

All because I went past the water line ...and talking about the weather. 

Me..."Hear Me.....two...sentence's only.  If you didn't want to talk AT ALL....YOU should have said so right from the beginning.  You were the one who wanted to talk.  Remember???"

There you go.  This is "IT"

J

I have been together with my partner for four years and it has been really difficult time. I am just now trying to figure out if I should continue. During good times my partner is very sweet and caring. He has supported me throughout therapy and also regularly does me small gestures. It is also really nice to talk to him and he is definitely brilliant in his own way. The problem is, I am very demotivated to stay in our relationship. It feels to me, that it is a constant struggle. Lets start with his anger outbursts and problems accepting criticism. He used to throw things at me, when he got mad and could tell me very mean things. He has stopped doing this now, but I am not really trusting him completely in this regard. He also seems to have some issue with feeling easily disrespected. Small instance such as me asking him to take out the garbage can seem to him disrespectful because I am not doing these on my own. To continue, I do not even dare to go on a holiday with him because I am anticipating some big quarrel. We used to manage to get into fight every time we went somewhere. Usually it would start with him assuming that I had done something disrespectful such as not looked at him while we were conversing etc. This has also improved, but it still feels rather scary to go somewhere with him. Finally, he used to disappear on me when he was on work trips. It would happen that he would not contact me for a week. I sometimes called him once or twice, but when he did not pick up, gave up myself as well. He is still not superactive when he is in a foreign country to contact me, rather he keeps me waiting. Finally, he does his plans without consulting me. He booked his vacation without a word to me. When he is on his vacation, he is spending most of his time together with his friends families, finding rather little time for me. When I have tried to talk about getting our own children, he keeps telling me, that we are not ready and that the relationship is not good enough. At this point I am rather miffed. Should I continue because he is regularly sweet to me and makes me feel loved, or should I leave because he is rather unreliable and not really consistant with his sweetness. All advice welcome!