Recent forum posts (all topics)

  • 'Gossip Machine' and ADHD by: Will It Get Better 6 years 3 months ago

    [Author’s Note: Melissa Orlov describes an ADHD symptom/response/response dynamic that can work to disrupt marriages.  I give the following story as a possible illustration.  We knew nothing about ADHD until one of my sons and then my wife were diagnosed three years ago.]

    Twenty-six years ago while living together in a Northeast City, my fiancé and I decided it would be wonderfully fun and romantic to have a small Caribbean Destination wedding.  I invited twelve family and friends from all around the country while my wife invited a similar number based in her Midwestern City.  All my family and friends quickly accepted (and I guess the prospect of flying to the Caribbean for the weekend beat flying to Midwestern City in the very late Fall.)  My fiancé’s family was quite different.  They had expected the ceremony to be in their Midwestern City as had all previous family weddings.  When each of our families’ youngest sibling could not come up with the airfare we agreed to pay for their tickets (we were already paying for all lodging at rented villas.)  Then within my fiancé’s family extensive squabbling began among the sisters that the youngest got to go for free while the others had to pay. (I’d hear about this after my wife had spoken with one of the sisters or her Mom.)  During one of those conversations my fiancé told one of the sisters ‘in confidence’ that my fiancé thought her family might be ‘dysfunctional’ (remember that ‘90’s buzzword?).  Thereafter sister X told sister Y what my fiancé had said and sister Y immediately called their Mom and repeated same.  Huge kerfuffle occurred.  My wife was enraged that sister X had ‘betrayed her confidence’ and now wanted none of them to be at the wedding.  So my fiancé demanded that I uninvite my family and friends and cancel the reservation on the villas.  Since she was to be my wife and I wanted ‘to make her happy’ I did as she requested.  We got married at a resort in the Caribbean without any of our family or friends present.

    My ‘takeaway’ from this was anger at her sisters for using their ‘gossip machine’ to undermine our wedding.  They achieved their seeming primary goal of not having to pay for tickets to the Caribbean but did not get their secondary goal of moving the ceremony to Midwestern City.  My now wife’s family wanted to host a reception for us in a very nice location in Midwestern City.  I agreed to add a Midwestern City leg to our return journey and to attend the reception ‘to make my wife happy’ even though I was angry the family had disrupted our wedding plan.

    Upon return from the wedding and settling in Northeast City I resolved that the ‘gossip machine’ was evil and must be avoided at all costs.  I was stunned to learn that my wife immediately reinstated participation in the ‘gossip machine’ with her family. Despite my requests to my wife to keep our marital conversations confidential seemingly anything I told my wife would almost immediately be interpreted and transmitted into the ‘gossip machine’ regardless of how personal the information.  As a relatively private guy I was mortified even private ‘hopes and dreams’ would be so published.  In response, for the length of our marriage I would always gauge the possible catastrophic RSD feedback loop (see fiancé’s reaction to ‘dysfunction’ comment) and couch any response to ‘how do you feel about…’ questions.  

    My wife always resented how ‘uncommunicative’ I am but almost any comment I make is interpreted as an ‘attack’ and a RSD ‘launch sequence’ begins.

  • Is it ADHD or is it Narcassism?? by: struggles 6 years 4 months ago

    I have been married to my husband for 11 years and have experienced all the craziness that is described in this forum.  I often find myself relating to so many of the posts here.  When I first began noticing the odd behaviors, the lying, the cheating, the angry temper, stonewalling, silent treatments, saying one thing - doing another, etc, etc. I, like most of you went on a search for what was going on to gain clarity and validate that I was not in fact losing my mind.  My husband's two oldest sons both have ADHD so that is where I began my search.  I found the book, Is it you, me or ADHD? and I found myself saying.. YES! This is my life!!.  I then found Melissa's website, books and we even attended her couple's online seminar.  My husband went along with the "therapy" and several other therapists after but nothing really ever changed.  He would be ok for a little while and then things would go right back to the way they were or worse.  Each time I would try to talk to him about my feelings or reach out to him emotionally in any way I would be met with pure and utter rage.  Everything I said would be flipped back on me, he would accuse me of things I never said and EVERYTHING I said was perceived as an attack on him.  He could never "hear" what I was trying to say because he was always to busy trying to scream over me and defend himself.  He would always talk about how hard it was for HIM to find out these things about himself but NEVER would acknowledge any of my feelings or what it was like for me!!  I was always walking on eggshells trying to be understanding of his issues but never got the same back.  Arguments were never about his behavior but rather my reaction to his behavior.  He would NEVER accept any responsiblity or accountability for anything he did.   About a month ago we had a fight where again, I tried to talk to him about my feelings and he flipped out, started screaming at me and started filing for divorce the next day.  He refuses to talk to me about any of it and has become extremely cruel. I moved out last week and have already been replaced.  He shows absolutely no emotion over the end of our marriage while I am devastated.  I no longer feel this is ADHD.  It is textbook covert narcassism and it will NEVER change! (atleast in my case).   My husband has no empathy or remorse for his actions NONE.   While this has been a big pill to swallow I now can begin the recovery of getting my life back.  The abuse is insidious and many of us don't even know or acknowledge that we are in fact being emotionally abused... I know I didn't.  Instead, I would keep trying to be better, do better and make excuses for things I knew in my gut were wrong.  I tried trying to not take things personal but how can you not when you are talking about one of the most personal relationships you will ever have??  I am angry at myself for allowing him to abuse me for all those years.  And yes, it was abuse and having to admit that to myself was the hardest of all.  No one wants to think you married an abuser but that's exactly what I did..

     

     

  • natural consequences - adhd effect on marriage - questions and reflections by: Grimley 6 years 4 months ago

    ADHD Effect on Marriage is one of my current re-reads.  I just finished reading Step 2:  Addressing Obstacles.  I am still struggling a lot with the aspect of natural consequences for the adhd spouse.  I am finding that I, the non-adhd spouse, am still bombarded with natural consequences as a result of my adhd household.  But the natural consequences don't seem to be affecting the adhd individuals, they seem to be my natural consequences...by association.  As a small example, I will do laundry simply because I need to clean my clothes so I might as well do everyone else's, but I will not put their clothes away. I will put my husband's clothes in a pile somewhere (either in our bedroom or the shared closet). Not my responsibility....letting go.  He will never put them away, and my room and closet is still a mess.  That is a natural consequence, to me, that is mine too because my closet/room is still a mess.  Yes, his natural consequence is that he cannot find his clothes, but I still have a messy room.  This is a smaller scale example to the example Melissa uses in, "Don't let triggers send you back" and "Don't Acquiesce"...When Melissa's business phone line was cut off, the "don't acquiesce" result was that she had to contact all her business connections to tell them her cell number.  I'm confused.  Isn't that a natural consequence that affects her big time?  Yes, Melissa had to take action that is better for her (contacting associates), but this was at the cost of her husband's procrastinations.  How can she not blame?  AND, Was her husband's natural consequence guilt?  Can someone please clarify this for me.

  • I'm very well. by: Libby 6 years 4 months ago

    I'm very well. That's what I hear my DH saying to people all the time. Even right after screaming and swearing at me.  Even with the hoarding mess. Even with the constant forgetfulness. Even with the crazy communication. Even with the broken promises. Even with the never ending lying. I fail to understand the depths of denial......

  • Basic Training because Love is War and not a tea party by: jennalemone 6 years 4 months ago

    Here is a writing from online "Phycology Today" that I shortened and it targets exactly what I have been swimming in for so long.  I didn't know the rules (or chose to make my own easier, more comfortable rules).  I was attracted to the bad boys and I was a nice girl.  Not a fun place to be for too long.

    Why Nice Guys Finish Last (and Nice Gals Too)!

    1) Nice People Do Not Make Their Partners Invest

    Whoever is doing the favors will fall in love. But, whoever is receiving the favors probably will not fall in love. The person that invests feels love. The person receiving the investment may not feel anything.  Moral of the story—don't be "nice" and do everything. Make your partner invest in you and the relationship too. Remember, when they DO FOR YOU, is when they fall in love. If they refuse to invest in the relationship, however, then they may never love you back.

    2) Nice People Reward Bad Behavior

    People learn from the consequences of their behavior. When they perform a behavior and are rewarded, they tend to do the same thing again. In contrast, when they perform a behavior and are punished, they tend to shy away from that behavior in the future. Well, nice people tend to treat their dates and mates very well. All the time. EVEN, when they don't deserve it.  The nice person often "thinks" that such good treatment will one day be recognized.  But, they fail to recognize what they are TEACHING their partner by treating them well under all conditions. As a result, nice people get walked all over. By being nice all the time, they actually encourage others to treat them badly.

    3) Nice People Are Too Available

    Generally, we believe whatever is scarce, or requires work to obtain, is valuable. Whatever is easy to get, or common, is probably cheap. Unfortunately for nice people, they are anything but scarce. They are eager to please. They are always agreeable to dropping their life and rushing over to their date or mate. They make time, dote, acquiesce, and try to be as convenient and easy as possible. Nevertheless, the bad boys and divas are scarce. That scarcity makes them SEEM valuable. Their unavailability and breaking plans makes them look confident and important. Making others work to earn their time gives the illusion that their time is valuable. 

    So, learn from the jerks and divas—but don't emulate them completely. Simply get your partners to invest in you back, as you invest in them. Further, only reward them when they deserve it and ignore them when they don't. Also, make them accommodate you too and don't let your life revolve around them. This will show them that you are a valuable and attractive person with some self-respect. Then, you can still be a decent person and find love...without being so nice others walk all over you.

  • Broken by: Libby 6 years 4 months ago

    I truly feel like my mind and comprehension has been damaged in dealing with my ADHD spouse. Maybe it is weariness or PTSD or something. I have so much more trouble understanding what he is trying to say to me than I used to. Could the stress of dealing with untreated mental illness have that effect on a spouse?

  • Missing link by: split pea soup 6 years 4 months ago

    If you are in a loving and fun relationship for many years - at times strained by misunderstood ADD symptoms, and then finally ended because of responses to those symptoms, is there any way to get through to your ADD partner about the importance of this?  To have a 'second chance at life' ?

    Peaceful happiness has eluded us for many years, and can be summarized by typical scenarios where I (non-ADD female) would uncharitably attack/accuse my partner as a reaction to what I perceived as selfish/inexplicable/uncharitable neglect on my partner's part.

    So this was the typical pattern. I would feel let down, and disrespected, and in turn would disrespect him. WE NEVER TALKED ABOUT ADD BEING BEHIND THIS. All I knew was that he took Adderall and I never considered it a serious condition...it was more a forgettable thought, like, "Oh he has allergies."

    So I always interpreted his intentions in a very negative way. When he responded to me, I always felt that he was just acknowledging the hurt but not verbalizing anything caring. I always likened it to a kid being made to write "I will not be bad" on the chalkboard 100 times. It did not feel meaningful and I would get even more upset at the detached sounding acknowledgements that often sounded like excuses and lacked more passionate loving words.

    In hindsight, I am cringing badly and my heart is disappointed in myself! He was doing the best he could, and was probably being made so discouraged by me. I was also discouraged because I could not understand why I was not worth more of an 'effort' on his part. Why I was always left in limbo.

    ADD explains so much of this; I was sabotaging him and myself. He was sabotaging himself by not being more self-aware or communicative about what he was actually dealing with.

    So after a downward spiral of this, he has finally given up and left me. We've been together for years. I love him and think he is the most special man I've ever been lucky to be with. But I have suffered a lot from his stonewalling and passive-seeming behavior. I believe he loves me, but has been worn down, and hasn't experienced being fully loved or accepted by me, because of these "attacks".

    Please help me with some advice. How do I convey these tragic misunderstandings to him and inspire him to see the potential to get back to our loving selves?

    I want to be a more serene and accepting person. I was not able to because I allowed his behavior to take me to a negative place. I can be in control of that. I can let go of that. I don't need to be constantly offended. It no longer seems as disrespectful or neglectful as it did.

    The thought that it is "too late" is freaking me out. I am in agony over his absence and things being interrupted before we could ever actually scratch the surface of our challenges.

    Most of these problems began in earnest when we began living together several years ago.

    I really appreciate your advice...... !

  • Explosive Situation by: bowlofpetunias 6 years 4 months ago

    This is the first full week that my wife and kids have off from work/school.  We did a year-end road trip last week.  This week, my wife's mother is visiting.  Already, there was a lot of conflict over the weekend, largely about trying to clean the place up, especially before the visit.  The house is even messier than it has been, partially because we (in other words, ME) have been boxing up things in the living room so we can have the floors fixed.  The conflict over cleaning had to do with the kids, but I also got some of the conflict from my wife over why I was not able to get them to cooperate.

    I am not sure how adding my wife's mother into the mix will affect things, but I fear it could lead to greater levels of stress and anger.  I am glad to be at work for most of the week.

  • Blind but now I see? by: Zapp10 6 years 4 months ago

    I had a thought this morning....out of nowhere....I just wanted my H and I to be ONE of the success stories where ADHD and marriage succeed.

    That sums it all up. 

    There are not many who post here like that.....because they are off LIVING their lives! 

    I wanted to BE one of them.....hmm.

    Not sure why this thought is resonating with in me. I think possibly that the stories of both parties accepting the AdHD offer such hope and inspiration that "seeing" our own reality is ....disheartening.

    While the non's take their own "journey" of self discovery and learning their part in reacting they themselves discover an uplift of personal discovery. I certainly believe I am a better person and want to share it in my marriage.  However.....it does not lend to the marriage itself. It does not MAKE a marriage work. 

    And we are back to square one....with a better(?) understanding......and perhaps..a clearer view of what we knew all along? And time is flying by.....and we are losing sight of the value of this one life we ALL have? Life does not offer a DO OVER.....but a DO BETTER?

    We here offer encouragement to distraught, desperate spouses. We empathize.....but seriously....we cannot offer hope for success.....that we ourselves don't have. Re-defining marriage by taking reciprocity and mutuality out along with consideration? HOW does that work in a marriage? All very interesting.

    Just this thought......I wanted for my H and I to BE one of the success stories.....Why?......going to be contemplating that.

  • So, how should I handle this? by: Brindle 6 years 4 months ago

    My ADHD husband has more than just ADHD going on. He isn’t just having a hard time doing things.  He also resents anything that cuts into his “me” time, which to him is anytime he isn’t at work. I know this because he says things straight out.  I’m not putting words in his mouth  

    So on top of ADHD, he is also actually lazy and selfish.  He glares at me or says nasty things when I say, “Could you please _______ for me today?”  It really is like living with an entitled teenage boy.  

    For years I’ve just done everything myself, and if I couldn’t get to it, then it went undone.  And in the past two years, I’ve come to realize just how hard life is with him and the toll it’s taking on me.  And I see where he’s just living a sweet life - I do everything he doesn’t want to do (which includes parenting).  In fact, even my thoughts on any subject make him angry. He isn’t even a decent person most of the time, whether he’s been asked to do something or not.

    SO - door #1 -do I continue finding ways around him and just do everything by myself as best I can to avoid the stress of dealing with him, even though that enables him to continue being lazy and selfish? 

    OR - door #2 - do I ask him to do little things, which puts the kids and I right in his angry cross hairs, where we listen to ugly comments and barbs because he had to do something?  (He’s already just unpleasant anyway, but asking him to do something results in more unpleasantness. Complaining the whole time, insulting me sometimes, or just being ugly and trying to manipulate me so I will feel bad.)

    I know what the “right” thing to do is - ignore his ugliness when he had to do something, and ask anyway, because he has familial obligations and he chose to take them on. But I really don’t even want to deal with him anymore. I want to minimize my interactions because he’s such a child. 

    I realize he doesn’t deserve his family, me and the kids. He deserves to be told to pack his bags. But for many reasons, I won’t leave. So I have to find a way to go forward. 

    So, door #1, door #2, or door #3 (door 3 is whatever advice or ideas you’ve got). 

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