I filed for divorce in December. My husband's communication style (rarely calling or emailing, rarely responding to messages) while at his parents' home, being their caregiver, was a big, although not the only, factor leading me to decide to file for divorce. His withdrawal, emotionally, physically, and financially, from the marriage is the prime cause. Since the filing, the communication has become even less existent; he responded to one message, about a malfunctioning appliance, and that is it. I would appreciate suggestions for keeping my head in the right place for the remainder of the divorce process. I don't want to force communication on or from an unwilling person but I don't want to lose myself to depression, either. Thanks.
Recent forum posts (all topics)
- Going through divorce with a spouse who's ghosting me by: PoisonIvy 8 years 9 months ago
- Respect = Love by: lauren07 8 years 9 months ago
- Residential Treatment Program? by: Cecily 8 years 9 months ago
Anyone know of an inpatient/residential ADHD treatment program for adults in the U.S. that they would recommend? There seems to be a fair number of clinics that offer the programs and I need to narrow it down....
- "Safeguarding"....An Intersesting Pyschology on Motivation by: kellyj 8 years 9 months ago
As I was reading up on this concept of "Safeguarding"......it immediately resonated with me. Not to assume that everyone will have this same experience.... but for those who don't....I think there is a direct relationship to this in terms of "physiological motivation"....which helps explain the "why" in peoples behavior and the motivation behind it. I think this is fascinating on all levels and because of how I responded (how I felt or my gut reaction to it).....I also think it has some validity especially connecting this with the "experience or having ADHD" by helping to explain the more common "behavioral symptoms" and the reasons for them......
For no other reason.....I think it helps to gain some perspective....the very perspective and the perceptions that come from it. I think this is what is missing ( at times) from the other side of these situations when you are confronted with those "what the hell???" moments. If anything....it is possible to change your perspective by furthering your ability to some of these things through the eyes of someone who cannot explain these things to you themselves.
Compassion (I believe) is necessary first before empathy but they are both interrelated at the same time with the ability to have forgiveness.....for yourself and everyone else. I think forgiveness is what is needed before acceptance...... and compassion and empathy are required before that can happen.....in that order:)
Beliefs, the relationship between Freud and Adler was tenuous.
Freud saw all human motivation reduced to sex and aggression while Adler saw people as being motivated mostly by social influences and the striving for superiority or success. Freud assumed that people have little or no choice in shaping their personality whereas Adler believed that people are largely responsible for who they are. Freud’s assumption that present behavior is caused by past experiences was directly opposed to Adler’s notion that present behavior is shaped by people’s view of the future. Freud placed very heavy emphasis on unconscious components of behavior while Adler believed that psychologically healthy people are aware of what they are doing and why they are doing it.
Background tidbits: Born 1870 in Vienna Born sickly and nearly died Rivalry relationship with brother Sigmund Jewish family background Young brother died in childhood Freud and Adler reacted differently to similar events in their lives.
Death of sibling
o Freud felt guilty and self-reproach
o Adler felt a challenge to overcome death Relations to family
o Freud felt close to his parents and other adults
o Adler felt close to his siblings Social relations
o Freud felt most comfortable in one on one situation
o Adler felt most comfortable in group settings Professional organization
o Freud had a tight organization
o Adler had a very loose organization Academic attitudes
o Freud was a hard working/good student
o Adler was an unmotivated/poor student Adler was an early member of the Wednesday group but left the group because of differences in what he saw as the motivating factor of the psyche. He saw physical deficiencies as the foundation of human motivation, not sex.
Formed the Society for Free Psychoanalysis Study which later changed to the Society for Individual Psychology Adler suggested that social interest and compassion could be the cornerstones for human motivation. Adler was impressed by Americans and admired their optimism and open-mindedness. Adler was married and had four children, two of whom became psychiatrists. Adler was interested and promoted gender equality.
Adlerian Theory Adler’s theory suffered from a number of critical problems including: 1. poor organization 2. the fact that he was not a particularly good writer 3. and that much of his work was incorporated into other writers work. His theory is simple and parsimonious.
Overview
The one dynamic force behind people’s behavior is the striving for success or superiority
People’s subjective perceptions shape their behavior and personality
Personality is unified and self-consistent
The value of all human activity must be seen from the viewpoint of social interest
The self-consistent personality structure develops into a person’s style of life
Style of life is molded by people’s creative power.
Tenant one was Striving for Superiority.
Tenant two is the people’s subjective perceptions shape their behavior and personality.
Fictionalism suggests that we create a goal early in life and the goal guides our style of life and gives unity to our personalities.
o An example might be that men are superior to women.
o This teleological approach is suggests that we are focused on our future goal or ends and not concerned about how the past produces some present effect.
Physical deformities suggests that because we are small, weak and inferior, we develop a fiction or belief system about how to overcome these physical deficiencies and become big, strong, and superior.
One might attain these, however, and still act as if they are the former.
o Some people use these inferiorities and move toward psychological health and a useful style of life while others overcompensate and are motivated to subdue or retreat from other people.
o Physical deficiencies alone do not cause a particular style of life; they simply provide present motivation for reaching future goals. Tenant three is the unity and self-consistency of personality suggests that each persona is unique and indivisible and that the notion of inconsistent behavior does not exist Adler suggests several ways that the entire person operates with unity and self-consistency.
o Organ dialect – The deficient organ expresses the direction of the individual’s goal.
Conscious and unconscious – Conscious thoughts are those that are understood and regarded by the individual as helpful in striving for success while unconscious thought are those that are not helpful.
o Whether people’s behavior leads to a healthy or an unhealthy style of life depends on the degree of social interest they develop during childhood years.
Tenant four is social interest and that the value of all human activity must be seen from the viewpoint of social interest. A feeling of oneness with all humanity Social interest is the natural condition of the human species and the adhesive that binds society together.
It begins early in development with the family and the group of families that family belongs to.
o It originates in the mother-child relationship o It continues in the father-child relationship
o It is believed that these parental relationships overwhelm the effects of heredity and the child’s social environment. Social interest is the “sole criterion of human values” and is the only gage to be used in judging the worth of a person. Healthy individuals are genuinely concerned about other people and have a goal of success that encompasses the well-being of all people.
How does one strive toward the final goal?
Innate striving force (motivation)
Physical deficiencies Feelings of inferiority
/ \
Exaggerated feelings of inferiority Normal feeling of incompletion
Personal gain- Lack of Social Interest Personal superiority - Success
Final Goal dimly perceived Final goal clearly perceived
Tenant five is that a self-consistent personality structure develops into a person’s style of life.
The flavor of a person’s life includes: a person’s goal, self-concept, feelings for others, and attitude toward the world.
It is the interaction of environment, heredity, and the person’s creative power.
People with a healthy, socially useful style of life express their social interest through action.
Tenant six is that the style of life is molded by people’s creative power.
It is the freedom to create her/his own style of life.
All people are responsible for who they are and how they behave
Creative power: places them in control of their own lives, is responsible for the final goal, determines their method of striving for that goal, and contributes to the development of social interest.
Creative power is a dynamic concept that implies movement.
People are much more than a product of their environment and heredity.
They are creative beings who not only react to their environment but also act on it and cause it to react to them.
We are our own architects and can build either a useful or a useless style of life.
Abnormal Development
One factor that underlies all types of maladjustment in underdeveloped social interest.
o Neurotics
Set their goals too high
Live in their own private worlds
Have a rigid and dogmatic lifestyle
External factors that contribute to maladjustment included
o Exaggerated physical deficiencies
Lead to exaggerated feelings of inferiority because they overcompensate for their inadequacy which leads to being overly concerned for themselves and a lack of concern for others.
o Pampered lifestyle
Lies at the heart of most neuroses
Lack social interest because they want to perpetuate their parasitic, pampered relationships they had with their parents.
They are extremely discouraged, indecisive, oversensitive, impatient, and have exaggerated emotions.
They feel unloved and because their parents do too much for them they encourage feelings of being incapable of solving their own problems.
o Neglected lifestyle
These children feel unloved and unwanted.
They too lack social interest
With many of the same characteristics as the pampered individual with the addition of suspiciousness of others and seeing others as potentially dangerous.
Safeguarding techniques are protective devices that enable people to hide their inflated self-image and maintain their current style of life.
o These occur only with neurotics and shield the individual from public disgrace.
These include:
Excuses (yes…but; only if ( contingent on something else first?)
Aggression (to safeguard their exaggerated superiority complex)
Depreciation (undervalue others achievements)
Accusation (blame others for one’s failures and to seek revenge)
Self-accusation (self-torture and guild with the goal of hurting others)
o It is the converse of deprecation with the same goal of superiority.
Withdrawal is halting personality development by running away from difficulties through distance.
It includes:
Moving backwards (like regression; safeguarding one’s fictional goal of superiority by psychologically reverting to a more secure period of life)
Standing still (not as severe as moving backwards; not being responsible; not doing anything!)
Hesitating (vacillating, procrastinating, being too compulsive)
Constructing obstacles (by overcoming self-created obstacles, the individual preserves their self-esteem and their prestige)
Masculine Protest
o Adler believed that the psychic and physical life of women is not much different than that of men and the culture and history help to create any differences that do exist.
o The overemphasis on being "manly" is called masculine protest.
o Boys and girls are taught these differences very early on.
o Freud’s and Adler’s view on femininity are reflected in their choice of wives!
Adler’s Safeguarding Techniques Freud’s Defense Mechanisms
1. Limited mostly to the construction of 1. Found in everyone - neurotic style of life
2. Protect the person’s fragile self-esteem 2. Protect the ego from the pain from public disgrace of anxiety
3. Can be partly conscious 3. Operate only on an unconscious level
4. Common types include: 4. Common types include:
a. Excuses a. repression
b. Aggression * depreciation b. reaction formation * depreciation
c * accusation c. displacement * accusation
d *self accusation d. fixation * self-accusation
e withdrawal e. regression
f. projection * moving backwards
g. introjection * standing still
h sublimation * hesitation
i. rationalization * constructing obstacles
j. undoing
What are some of the applications of Individual Psychology?
Family Constellation
o birth order
Early Recollection
o ER are always consistent with people’s present style of life and their subjective account of these experiences yields clues to understanding both their final goal and their present style of life
o ER’s effect how one sees one’s self
o ER’s does not determine the style of life but rather ER’s are simply shaped by present style of life
Dreams
o Cannot foretell the future but can provide clues for solving future problems
o “Everything can be different”, that is, if one interpretation doesn’t feel right try another
o Dreams can be self-deceptive and are best interpreted by someone besides the dreamer Psychotherapy
o Psychopathology results from lack of courage, exaggerated feelings of inferiority, and underdeveloped social interest
o The chief purpose of psychotherapy is to enhance courage, lessen feelings of inferiority, and encourage social interest.
o This is difficult because patients hold on to their existing, comfortable view of themselves.
o To overcome resistance to change, the therapist asks questions like “what would you do if I cured you immediately?”
o What people do with what they have is more important that what they have
o Treated children in front of an audience o Adler was active and directive in therapeutic style
o The therapeutic relationship is important in reawakening social interest
Critique
not falsifiable (2) average in generating research (3-4) organizes research well (5) guides everyday action very well (5) low internal consistency (2) Poorly defined terms emphasizes free will & choice (5) is a very optimistic theory (5) on causality this theory is teleological in nature (is moving forward and individuals are motivated by future goals) (2) is both conscious/unconscious (3) emphasizes social interests (5) while emphasizing personal interests
- Approaching 9 years... by: troy127 8 years 9 months ago
Hello All,
My first post was about 9 years ago. I had just met my soon-to-be husband and began the process of eagerly immersing myself in "all that is ADD".
It's been nearly 9 years, and we're still married.
I love him dearly, yet can absolutely relate to NEARLY every heart-wrenching post.
I must qualify by stating that: 1) I was informed of my spouse's ADD prior to marrying him, 2) researched the hell out of ADD prior to our nuptials, 3) am a counselor with over 25 years of experience, AND 4) consulted Dr. Hallowell, with my husband, for at least three sessions about 7 years back.
It's been hard, and frankly, NOT much has gotten easier. I will concede to Melissa O. that, yes, we've absolutely had lovely moments. I adore being part of a team--always have. I'm also a big fan of the cognitive therapeutic models. (I know...I know..It's not 'what' people DO, rather 'HOW' we perceive/respond...)
Many close to me would also argue that I'm happier now than I was as a single 38 year-old in NYC!
Recently, however, I've had a few serious wake-up calls related to my health. (I'm 48, so this is when stuff starts to happen to some of us...) Coupled with what I suppose, are normal mid-life issues, a complete re-evaluation of what I have gotten myself into has occurred.
In the past, I was a pretty good patient facilitator and willing "fixer". Not so much at all anymore.
Here's the thing:
I love him in the sense that I feel tenderly and protective of him.
We have sex 5 or so times a year-- for the past 8 years. This is no joke. I have been faithful, nonetheless. I'm neither proud or ashamed of this fact, but more than ever, desire a need to be free of this weirdness.
While C. has made progress from when we first met, I was NOT wholly prepared to take this on for a lifetime.
I DID NOT realize the effect this would have on me this far down the road. I thought I could manage it. I knew as a Counselor, I could not fix it, but believed I could manage it. I can't anymore.
Now that I'm facing my own health and developmental issues, I no longer have the patience for all of this.
I have actually begun to believe that my husband is slowly killing me. More sadly, I think he is oblivious to this at best, and just doesn't give a shit, at worst.
I have given him a time line, replete with multiple suggestions to attempt to get things back on track. He is ignoring my feelings and is under the false impression, that, because I love him, I'll never leave.
This whole state of affairs is so very sad.
- Newly diagnosed communication problems by: ryanarlan22 8 years 9 months ago I have some questions. I'm 24, and was just diagnosed with ADHD. I know that therapy takes time, and I'm working on it, but I had a few questions/was looking for some advice. For as long as I can remember, I have lied when I either forgot something or when I was asked about an impulsive action. I don't mean to, but I think that the constant shame I feel over constantly feeling like a disappointment to my family and my fiancee is the root cause of it. I've felt that way for as long as I can remember, and now I have a problem with impulsively lying. For example, on an impulse I made a mistake (this was pre-diagnosis), and when my fiancee found out without thinking about it I lied. She's upset (as she should be) not so much about the mistake I made (no, it wasn't an affair but for the sake of brevity I'm just calling it "my mistake") but more so about the lying. I didn't really mean to lie or to make the mistake I made, it was just like an impulsive response that I couldn't stop, and once I was in it I couldn't get myself out of it. Is this common? Do other people have the same problem? Will continuing my ADHD treatment (medication and CBT) help this, or is there maybe something else wrong that I should see another doctor about? Does anyone have any advice that's had this problem and gotten past it? Thanks
- Instructions are needed by: I'm So Exhausted 8 years 9 months ago
I am at this place of wanting to do something in a different way. I am inspired by that old saying - "If you always do - what you always did - you always get - what you always got."
The construction business is owned by my spouse and our son - in legal terms 90/10. I TRY - that is important - TRY - to just be the book-keeping administration. I am the financier in our home - all our household and business $$$ are intertwined - all debt is owned by my spouse and I. I manage it. I oversee it. I keep the cash-flow flowing - what comes in gets directed to the payments. I can work with what we have. I only mange. Now that I said that, it occurred to me, we had refinanced our house in 2013 - in an attempt to consolidate debt. I have been going to college part-time since 2012 and have incurred government education loans in my name, so we agreed to have the mortgage company put the house equity loan in my spouse's name. Ownership is still in both our names.
I personally get so excited by the potential this business can have. Excellent work. Creative solutions. Kind and courteous workers. They clean up after the job is finished. All those things are a huge plus. Areas that need attention - organization; use of time; responding promptly to calls, estimates, care of equipment, organization of supplies, working within a budget, planning for growth, being pro-active rather than reactive to problems, sticking to a schedule.
My own focus has been my college degree. If all goes as planned, I will have my degree in Early Childhood Education in December. Woohoo!!!! Will a 57 year old woman with a brand new college degree be able to find a job? Well, who knows. I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I also have a series of children's books that I am writing. . .still in the idea and storyboard phases . . . . .that have been on the back burner. They are a dream. A goal. An ideal. Maybe I will get them to a publisher. Just following where God leads me. I do not look at them as a failure - just something whose time has not yet come.
Well, as I relearn my position in my marriage, I continue to work diligently on being the partner - and removing myself from the position of 'parent in a parent/child dynamic we had going.
What I had proposed - starting in February - each Monday morning at 9 am, our son - who is a top mechanic, too - will do weekly scheduled maintenance on the 3 business trucks. It will promote at least two benefits - 1. being aware of the reliability/condition of our trucks. 2. starting to have a specific schedule to make wise use of time/daylight hours. Baby steps. Tiny baby steps.
What else?
Sincerely,
Liz
- Healing by: Happyl 8 years 9 months ago
How do you heal a marriage? how do you explain you don't mean for your ADHD to hurt them? Especially when you didn't even know you had ADHD. My husband perceived my actions as rejection but that was never my intent.
- Letting go of guilt... by: Anonymous (not verified) 8 years 9 months ago
Bear with me, there is a point to this.
There are so many things that I have done over the 25 years that I have been married to my H with ADHD that I pride myself in and I know that the normal man would love, even the ADHD man would love. The pain and disappointment enters when you realize that the things that YOU love and would like, even though expressed, don't get done to and for you. I have started to read the book by Chapman on The 5 Languages of Love and the idea is great. Love a person like THEY want to be loved. That is Bible principle, nothing new. However, this does not really work in a marriage where the person with ADHD does NOT seek help or meds or put an effort to make a change. I have talked a lot to my H about things that make me feel special and things he does that make me feel unseen. He knows it all.
It's funny how he always expresses thanks to me for things that I do that make HIM feel great, like saying goodbye to him before I leave for work everyday while he is asleep, since he doesn't work (yeah, look at my previous post). At times I get upset and leave without saying goodbye because he can get up to use the bathroom, see me, walk right by me and go back to bed without a word, but he feels awesome when I wake him for 2 seconds to say goodbye. Is it a nice thing to do? Yes! I know that would make anyone feel great. However, when only ONE person makes that effort, it is depleting of energy. One time he even called me to tell me that it could have been the last time we saw each other and I didn't say goodbye so I turned around, went back upstairs and went to the bed to hug him. But he does not make ANY effort to get up with me, maybe have coffee, etc. I know, this is what I would love but to constantly be let down UNLESS I am on his back, waking him up, making the coffee, he won't do it for more than a day or two. Yet if he tries waking up like early once, he says he loves getting up early since it makes him feel productive, then the next day, back to his ways since he is an insomniac that knows he needs meds and doesn't go to doc or even pop a Benadryl.
I am big on texting and communicating and he can go hours without a word. I have told him how this makes me feel and he always falls back on his ADHD and forgetfulness. I text him and there are times that he hasn't even opened my text. On Tuesday, he made plans to see his guy friend who has his own wood shop and have some beers and cut some wood. He never said a word to me the whole day, since I left for work at 7:30 AM. So I get home from work at 5PM, no dinner which is fine since I am grown, and I don't even know when he got home since I went to bed at 10:30 PM and he still wasn't home. I didn't make a fuss since it's time for me to be alone and at peace but it's not considerate.
SO....I said all that to say this: why should I feel guilty for not saying goodbye before I leave for work? Why should I feel guilty for going to the gym after work to lose these 100 pounds that have the word "depression and anxiety" on them for so many years? Why should I feel guilty pulling back on the gift giving when I get no gifts but he loves and takes all of mine? Why should I feel guilty for putting myself first for once? Why feel guilty for doing my best to reach MY goals since apparently reaching OUR goals together is something that I can't count on? Why should I feel guilty for going out with my girlfriends after work if I know he is alone at home when on other days he comes home late and thinks nothing of talking to me for 13 hrs? For years I have been loving, not that I will stop, for years I have put a halt to my life to coddle him so HE is not alone, abandoned, sad. I have stayed home so he wasn't alone at home. I have not gone to the gym since he promises he will go with me and doesn't. I have stopped walking on the track since he says his knees hurt when he walks. I have felt bad not making dinner. I have felt bad being less than perfect. Yet he knows his behavior hurts me, makes me feel like less than a wife but continues to do it, and refuses therapy, meds or just making schedule changes. A simple alarm to remind him to make time for his wife (never thought that would ever be needed while we were dating and he smothered me) would be awesome and I have suggested it.
But ONLY WHEN HE IS READY will he fix any of this. Now, what will I DO FOR ME? 2016 is 21 days old and I have thought about what I want. I will not feel guilty for making 80% of my life amazing when 20% that is my marriage is not what I thought it would be. This is not my fault, I shouldn't feel guilty. I need to remember that if he feels certain things are important to HIM then he will do them in his due time. If he doesn't do them then its his choice. He can certainly prioritize when it comes to what he likes, which includes anything that a teenage boy would like. He can certainly step up to the plate to impress other people, mostly women that are blown away by his charm and charisma. He has a high IQ and is very aware of his failings in our marriage. So why should I feel guilty...I shouldn't. He himself has called me a beautiful and kind person and said I deserve more than him. If he is not willing to be what I deserve well then, at 43, I have no more time to waste on waiting. He had me since I was 16 and still here we are. It's such a shame for him because of his pride, he has halted the amazing life and marriage HE can have. The clock doesn't stop for anyone. He will be 48 next month and will be in the same spot he was at long ago, since childhood. I can no longer try to fix anything but myself.
Guilt no more.
- Proving a Negative, Russel's Teapot and The Kobayashi Maru by: kellyj 8 years 9 months ago
I moved this topic that evolved from a different thread to address what I realized is directly related to my anger and why I experience it. It is, at the source....out of frustration at the core....but it's a frustration that never gets resolved and therefore....will fester into anger. I think the experience of having ADHD that is frustrating in itself let alone any added frustration. At times this can be overwhelming and it can all come crashing down on you when you lose your ability to tolerate IT anymore. What is IT? Read further....
Proving a Negative ie: Russel's Teapot
A negative claim is a colloquialism for an affirmative claim that asserts the non-existence or exclusion of something. There are many proofs that substantiate negative claims in mathematics, science, and economics including Arrow's impossibility theorem. A negative claim may or may not exist as a counterpoint to a previous claim. A proof of impossibility or an evidence of absence argument are typical methods to fulfill the burden of proof for a negative claim. Example Matt Dillahunty gives the example of a large jar full of gumballs to illustrate the burden of proof. It is a fact of reality that the number of whole gumballs in the jar is either even or odd, but the degree of personal acceptance or rejection of claims about that characteristic may vary. We can choose to consider two claims about the situation, given as: The number of gumballs is even. The number of gumballs is odd. These two claims can be considered independently, however, both claims represent the same proposition. Odd in this case means "not even" and could be described as a negative claim. Before we have any information about the number of gumballs, we have no means of checking either of the two claims. When we have no evidence to resolve the proposition, we may suspend judgment.
From a cognitive sense, when no personal preference toward opposing claims exists, one may be either skeptical of both claims or ambivalent of both claims.If there is a claim proposed and that claim is disputed, the burden of proof falls onto the proponent of the claim. If there is no agreeable evidence to support a claim, the claim is considered to be an argument from ignorance.
Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong.
Kobayashi Maru (not just for Star Trek fans :)
In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, the simulation takes place on a replica of a starship bridge, with the test-taker as captain and other Starfleet members, officers or other cadets, in other key positions. In the scenario of the 2280s, the cadet receives a distress signal stating that the Kobayashi Maru has struck a gravitic mine in the Klingon Neutral Zone and is rapidly losing power, hull integrity and life support. There are no other vessels nearby. The cadet is faced with a decision: Attempt to rescue the Kobayashi Maru 's crew and passengers, which involves violating the Neutral Zone and potentially provoking the Klingons into hostile action or an all-out war; or Abandon the Kobayashi Maru, potentially preventing war but leaving the crew and passengers to die. If the cadet chooses to save the Kobayashi Maru the scenario progresses quickly. The bridge officers notify the cadet that they are in violation of the treaty. As the starship enters the Neutral Zone, the communications officer loses contact with the crippled vessel. Klingon starships then appear on an intercept course. Attempts to contact them are met with radio silence; indeed, their only response is to open fire with devastating results. The objective of the test is not for the cadet to outfight the opponent but rather to test the cadet's reaction to a no-win situation.
I'm going to make an another philosophical argument here that I believe is absolutely true....that the experience of having ADHD puts one in the position of having to do this very thing in countless ways. What may look like someone who is trying to be obstinate and contrary may actually have some merit and this is not what is actually happening or what they are attempting to do? Denial could be associated with this in an extreme version of it....but even without denial present and someone is making a valid attempt at speaking as honestly and authentically as they can without distortions present in their thinking.....it still leaves a lot to be desired and an inability to communicate sometimes.
The reason for this? What is happening is they are trying to prove something or explain something that the person on the other side of the conversation simply cannot relate with. Without saying it.....this is absolutely true. It's a fact and there are no two ways around it. What is actually happening and for no better reason I can think of....is a valid attempt many times to relate and try to connect in a way that is simply not possible but neither person in the relationship realizes or understands this. You can't know the experience of having ADHD unless you've had this experience...and it differs from most other people experience in their entire life time of experiences.....
Therefore....trying to relate or trying to convince someone who hasn't had this experience as means to explain it to them so they will understand is futile at best. In the worst case scenario.....it ends in frustration and anger and even possibly abuse all over this one un-resolvable concept. The concept itself is really the root cause of these conflicts IMHO. And over what? Trying to do what is not possible? I think that might be included in the definition of insanity. If that's the case.....a different approach on both sides is required. That's really all I have to say on the topic but I did want to share my thoughts because I think it might be possible to accept a situation that there simply is no real resolution for.
As I said this in another thread.....my resolution for matter like this comes from these understandings and requires nothing on the part of anyone else in this case. If I can let go of this one for good.....I think most of my anger surrounding this will also disappear along with the frustration I have had by simply not being able to see this quite so clearly in the past. I can hope for anyone else who is ready to see this themselves....it will help you as well. If there is one thing that having ADHD and being in a relationship with someone who has it will do for you without question is to test your character....for both people, not just for the one who has it.
J