https://www.gocomics.com/poochcafe/2019/05/13 v
Chaz: You got into the garbage AGAIN?
Poncho: It's not my fault. There wree cheese wrappers in there.
Chaz: I'm so tired of having to scold you over and over!
Poncho: IIt's no picinic for me to have to keep listening to it!
Chaz: Well, I am just using a pre-recorded message!
Poncho: Well, I'm just using ear plugs!
Recording: Bad dog you are for making a mess all over the--
Chaz Thoughts: This can't be helping much.
Do you and your spouse have trouble agreeing on what is best for the two of you? I've got a thought I want to share, this isn't new, but, it's something to think about and accept so we can avoid arguments, by recognizing the dynamic that is in play....I think for what ever reason (selfishness, add, self blindness, indifference,or other) my W most always approaches me in conversations in a mindset that is individual in nature...What is good for me, what I want, what I must have happen to be happy....Hardly ever (can't honestly remember a time right off) is her subject matter about what is good for us both....She may present it that way on occasion, but, it's most always presented in a "I think mode", vs "What do you think mode".....This is definitely not uncommon for any of us from time to time...But it's very bad, when a person presents idea's for both parties, based as an ultimatum of sorts, to their happiness....My wife lives in this type individualize mindset most of the time, based on her communication to me, and her life pursuits....
What happen's when this dynamic is occurring? It depends on what it is, and where we are, and if I recognize it right away....First it gives little to no space for my thoughts, (consideration) it's basically a dead end, that ends with them getting their way, or them doling out the victim stuff, ugly comments, pouting, or worse.... Individual mindsets are looking for one thing....To get their way, no matter the cost to you...So they say things the way they do, as to only leave one right answer....These things can be walked away from, and not responded to, when you are at home or in your own environment...They become more difficult when you are traveling together, and they drop a bomb that will put your life on hold, while they pursue those individualized hobbies and interests....Also, the more they are given in to, the more they play the game....Is this total selfishness? Or is there an inability to see their desire to control based on mental illness? Either way, it's something to be aware of, so as not to give quick innocent answers, without considering the cost....
One other point I will add right here....The power of hyper-focus that goes alone w/ add, and this dynamic I spoke about above (not thinking and acting with in the parameters of unity, consideration of a spouse or family) has never been something you can break into once it starts, and expect it to end well.....
When you are married, it is so easy to assume, based on your own level of commitment, and desire for peace and unity....But only pain comes out of getting to comfortable with someone who lives in this individual mindset....I"ve learned I can't trust my wife to consider me, my feelings, my thoughts concerning much of anything....She is much like a spoiled child in these dynamics....I'm "good" when she is getting catered to ( having her way)...And I'm "bad" if I don't go along...Or if I have boundaries that forces her out a position to change the plan, add to the plan on the spur of the moment.....I must quietly go along no matter the cost to me personally, or she pouts like a child.....Except in a much more threatening manner....
Reality is quiet aggravating in our marriage....I want to share in trips and things w/ her....But until she learns (if ever) consideration, and thoughtfulness of others, (me) I can't afford to go off w/ her, I'm only asking for arguments, and the pain of abandonment, wasted time and money...
What about you?
c
First of all, Happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there!
I have been stewing for a bit and decided to post here because it usually makes me feel better. The short story is that my husband forgot Mother's Day. I am not surprised. This is far from the first time as birthdays, anniversaries and Mother's Day are often forgotten or unacknowledged. My expectations for him to remember... and especially to plan or do anything are long gone. But it is still hard on these days, nonetheless. I mentioned Mother's Day several times this week and said I would like to go out for dinner today because I know if I want something, I have to ask for it explicitly. But still, dinner will only happen if I remind him again... on the day itself. And I get that it is unreasonable to expect my untreated ADHD spouse to remember Mother's Day, despite several reminders. But it is still colossally disappointing when my friends and in-laws are texting with their breakfasts-in-bed and days-of-pampering and asking me what my husband did for me. While I may have tempered my expectations over the years, this still hurts. I will likely steal some me-time today and maybe go treat myself to a new top or pair of shoes, but this non-spouse stuff can be extra hard on days like this.
Next week, it will be 10 years since my then-husband was fired from what had been only his second long-term (defined as lasting more than 2 years) job of his life. The job loss and resulting financial difficulties were very stressful, especially because he was fired from his other long-term job about 12 years earlier and then was unemployed, by choice, for about 6 years. Initially after the firing in 2009, ex-h tried to deal with things. He signed up for unemployment benefits, received free education benefits because of being classified as a "displaced worker," resumed therapy, and even did an intensive outpatient therapy program. But he never applied for new jobs, despite asserting to the state (as a condition of receiving unemployment benefits) that he was doing so, and he eventually decided to become his parents' full-time caregiver. Becoming the caregiver was the nail in the coffin of our marriage. It wouldn't have had to have been, but the caregiving situation exacerbated two types of behavior that harmed our relationship: he almost never communicated with me and he engaged in dishonest and illegal financial activities with his father.
I am extremely grateful to have this forum. People here understand.
I keep having the urge to make a post here. But I can’t form the words to make a post of any real point, because it isn’t any one thing right now. It’s all of it, all of my cumulative years with him.
And I’m thankful that when I can’t put a post into words of any real substance, you will all understand anyway. Thanks for being here, everyone.
In my last post on here in February I was desperately unhappy. My husband had just been diagnosed with ADHD and I felt the future was bleak. He was put on adderall the day of the diagnosis and after a month on that I was on the brink of divorcing him. He became much more focused at work but very, VERY unpleasant at home when it was wearing off. He was just mean and nasty whereas he never really was before (just hapless and clueless but mostly good natured - a bit like an accident prone labrador puppy). He switched to Ritalin and things have been better. We did have to have a few conversations about how meds were not just for work, and that he needed to take them at the weekends too, because when he didn't things went back to how they were - jobs half-done, forgetting what people told him etc. But I don't think we're quite there with the meds. However, we're paying for a more thorough (3 hour) assessment from a more qualified doctor next month, so I'm hoping to see more improvements then.
I was going through old documents the other day and found out from his birth records that my husband was delivered by forceps (it was the sixties), and rather forcefully so, as they noted a scar on his cheek from it in the birth notes. I did a bit more digging and it seems that research suggests birth trauma of the brain (such as forceps and vacuum delivery) may be linked to ADHD. I don't know why, but this actually made me more sympathetic to him, that it might not be his genes that caused it, but that someone may have done it to him. I know I ought to be equally sympathetic either way, because you can't help your genes, but I'm just being honest about my feelings. I think when you've been through so much negative stuff at the hands of someone else's chaos, being told ADHD is genetic didn't really change how I felt. It still felt like it's part of them, a problem I'd endured because of them and their "malfunctioning". Whereas a birth trauma makes it a problem caused by "other", and somehow that's easier to tolerate, even though it's still the same person doing the same stuff. I know that sounds irrational, but somehow it's easier to separate the condition from the person if you can see the condition as "not their fault." And I know I ought to view it as not their fault either way, genetic or not, but while I do logically view it equally as "not their fault", emotionally, there is a difference, and maybe that's something I have to work on - absolving him of blame for his condition regardless of what caused it. I don't really feel like I blame or resent him for his ADHD, but I know it's caused a large space to form between us as a result of his condition.
I took advice from my last post regarding dropping my expectations of him and over the last two months I've stopped hoping he'd be able to do things like a normal adult. And to be honest, I grieved that. I grieved that I didn't get the partner I thought I had signed up for - a fully functioning adult. I've let a lot go in this relationship and I've been pushed to some dark places, but I never stay angry or resentful, but while it's easy to forgive, and I have - a long time ago, I can never really forget, because fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. To not remember and be wary, would be foolishness on my part at this point. I can't go back and pretend things didn't happen. I'm not cross, I don't blame him, and I don't hate him, but I can't not be "on guard" and I can't just "trust" him to do things on time or properly without some involvement from me (especially things that impact me and my daughter - I will not let him learn lessons at our expense any more). That's would be irresponsible given what I know and what has happened so far.
I feel my husband and I may have different views of his diagnosis. To me, a diagnosis doesn't give a blank slate and an excuse to erase and dismiss the past as "that was before... before we knew... before I was treated... before I was on meds.". The past chapter of my life has already been written, and I'm on the next one now, but the last one didn't get "unwritten". The storyline and pain didn't disappear with the magic words "you have ADHD". My story is continuous, from then to now, but I don't think my husband views life that way. Whether it's due to bad memory, or simply excusing the past as "that was before and things are fine now", he doesn't seem to live a continuous storyline. There are large gaps of things that he doesn't remember doing or saying, and everything is in the now. And I don't know whether that's something we can reconcile, because it's like trying to co-exist peacefully when people are living in alternate realities. There's inevitably going to be squabbles due to lack of understanding of my reasoning for things, reasoning which I have come to based on past events, and I don't know that I have the reserves to explain my (usually pretty sold and practical) reasoning for my decisions and actions every time he takes objection to them for the rest of my life. It's wearying. And though I don't expect him to keep our lives on track anymore, and I just monitor and manage things to maintain a stable environment now, each disaster that has been the revolving door of dramas and disasters for the last 5 years has, though forgiven, caused space to form between us. I don't think he's a bad person, but I don't feel he's a man I can trust, and I say trust as in I trust him to safeguard our family and make the right, well-thought out, decisions to keep us from financial and emotional harm. And by not being able to trust him, I don't feel safe with him. I feel I must always be steering the boat and I can never hand off to a co-captain. And that, more than anything, is what may eventually cause my marriage to fail, because without trust in your partner to take the reigns if you can't, what do I have? Another dependent. And is that really how I want to live the rest of my life? In a state of perpetual responsibility? Even when I'm sick? Even when I'm exhausted? Can I do that? I don't know.
So, I wanted to say we've made some progress. He still works all the time, and is rarely far from his computer, especially in the mornings when I'm trying to get my 4 year old dressed and breakfast, and around bedtime, when I'm trying to get her to bed, but I'm trying not to let that bother me, and I only ask him to be involved if he cares to be, otherwise I just do it all myself. The meds have made a difference. He's starting to attend a support group once a month. Next year when we change to fancier insurance we'll look at counseling/coaching for him too. I've finally gotten our small family to a place of financial stability (we had to file personal bankruptcy last year and are filing a business one now to properly close the door on that chapter of our lives), he's more involved at the weekends and I've hired a sitter a few hours a week to help with my burn out, and my daughter starts daycare in July for a year, and then will start school. Everyone is up to date with doctor and dental things, and taxes were done early so as not to wipe out an entire weekend last minute. We're also trying to be creative about problem solving. Instead of me always having to ask him to do things, I wrote a "what can I do to help" list in huge font and stuck it to the wall. So he doesn't have to ask me anymore because he "can't remember". And instead of me getting annoyed that he didn't brush his hair before a shower (and coating the whole shower in hair, especially right after I spent 20 mins cleaning it) because he just "couldn't remember" despite me repetitively asking over and over, I made him agree to keep his hair cut short, and we hung a brush right on the shower, so he can't get into it without seeing it. All these things help, but will they be enough? Only time will tell.
Our lives are getting better, and the horizon looks calmer with reduced child care duties on me, financial stability, and no more lawsuits or side ventures (husband has agreed to just focus on his job as he can see more clearly now that side projects are a bad idea for him). However, I don't know that this life is enough for me in the long term. I don't know that I can close the emotional distance between us or ever attain a level of trust and safety that's fulfilling for me. But I do know that as with shopping when you're hungry, making decisions when I'm burned out and depressed is also unwise. Thus, I know I need to give it more time, I need time to emotionally recover from the white-knuckle endurance ride that has been the last 5 years of my life. I need to regain my health and fitness, and I need to asses things further down the line when I have more of an idea of how much change can really be affected. So, for now, I'm hanging in there, and my knuckles are no longer white, which is something, I guess.
I feel like I'm getting closer to a crossroads. I've been toiling for years (yes, YEARS) to improve my ADHD symptoms. I feel fortunate to have good health insurance that not only pays for medication, but also alternative treatment via a Naturopath, as well as for therapy. Therapy and meditation have really brought me to the next level. And scarily, it is at this level that I have realized that this marriage is not all about what I have to do to improve, and now I am learning to set boundaries and express my wishes to a spouse who has had his foot out the door for years.
My therapist is amazing. I've suffered through several duds who didn't get me, didn't push me, and definitely didn't have an adequate understanding of ADHD. When I described his behavior and asked for feedback, she has a strong sense he is experiencing anxiety, depression, or both. I've expressed to him that I think he needs counseling, that his anxiety and moods are an issue. I feel he has depression because he resents me for past mistakes and refuses to forgive me for not putting more effort in our marriage early on (I was young, dumb, and clueless with untreated ADHD). I feel he has anxiety because he stresses a lot. He has somatic issues that corollate to either.
He used to threaten me frequently with divorce, but through counseling, I called him out on it, and he hasn't done it in months. He did it on a regular basis for half our marriage prior to me calling him out, roughly 10 years. He's pretty critical, but I've noticed his criticisms are getting more and more trivial, and so does my therapist. Thinking distortions? He has them all. I honestly think his insecurities started with a father who moved overseas for years while he was a child. Abandonment issues, for sure, and I think he deals with them by keeping me at a safe distance. I am ALWAYS working on something. I ALWAYS have personal goals to achieve and plans to achieve it. I want to become a better person and I honestly am. He cannot see it because he is protecting himself and views me through the muddy lens of whatever is going on in his head.
My therapist and I shake our heads because there is no substance abuse, no domestic violence, no financial ruin, we have both had steady jobs for two decades, and no infidelity. The only thing standing in the way of our marriage is his anger, resentment, self-righteousness, and frankly, mental health issues. I do not know what to do. He might say that if he has anxiety and/or depression, that I am the cause. I feel that the fact he won't get help is the issue.
I've finally realized it doesn't matter what I do. Even though the house has been cleaner than it has ever been for a month, and I'm not even struggling, thanks fo a great book, he managed to take that and turn it into me being able to do the things I deem important, and only once I deem it important, does it get my attention. As I said to my therapist, that's true for everyone. You cannot outwardly impose true, meaningful change on another person. They have to want it. But equally relevant, they have to know what they don't currently know in order to change the situation, and I didn't flippin' know. I can clean the kitchen, but the rhythm of cleaning a house daily has never made sense to me until recently. It no longer feels like a farce, but I know it's officially a habit. BUT now that I actually understand, I get how simply it appears to you NON-ADHD partners out there. But instead of being impressed with each new change I make, he finds a way to diminish it. And my therapist said (and I totally agree) that he can't have me improve while he's stuck because that means he needs to change, which means he has treated me pretty poorly for a long, long, LONG time. And it's more important to be right than happy, clearly. *Sigh.*
Any suggestions on how to get him help without alienating him further? He really is a good person, but lost in his head. He didn't used to be like this. But I cannot live like this forever. I don't want to be a poor example to my children to stay in an unhappy marriage for an eternity. But I don't want to quit on us, either. Y I know people go through rough patches and I am willing and able to do some heavy lifting, and I have been. You can see my dilemma...
Looking back over the past 11 years of my life, much of the difficulties in my marriage relationship, and my own pain, has been self inflicted....It happens when I expect my W to think, feel or behave like I do....I was reading an old post, (January 2019) and a light came on for me...Not one that life isn't teaching me, with all the harshness it can dole out...But one I wish had been able to hear and accept going into this marriage...(Which probably would have stopped the marriage)....But one worth mentioning again non the less...If not for you guy's, then just as my own reminder going forward.....
This poster said....Her and her husband (adhd/add) and children had plans for a movie and dinner out...She and the children found themselves waiting w/ tickets in hand, and a no show husband, who couldn't be reached....But eventually they heard from him, and he was on a train headed home....Her comment about this event is what struck me so profoundly...("Yet another family outing ruined by her husband") Maybe not her exact words, but, I got her point....Why? Why did those words hit me so hard?..Think about it?? Oh, and she also said that they had communicated over text regarding this family event (reminders)....So what was his reply when she questioned him about his decision to not consider his commitment?? I bet all commitment minded people know the answer....Blank..Little to no concern....
So what's my point, you may be thinking :)....Well, If I truly accepted the type mind I'm dealing with (radical behaviors, their word is meaningless at times, no remorse about their uncaring acts, etc) I wouldn't be feeling the same way my poster friend felt...(He ruined the family function) would I?
What would I do? I would believe what I've been shown for years;)...I would put little to no stock in their word, that way, I can shake my head and laugh, and go and enjoy the movie and dinner... With out a thought about them just being them...
So, what has happened to me over the years, (and many of you) that has caused me so much pain, and negative emotion, around their living of life, and their choices??....**It's all self inflicted**....I put stock in her being able to follow through with the same commitment that I do...(fools gold) Will she follow through at times?...Yes, in many area's, especially things that she feels entertains her, excites her, or benefits her...LOL...It's just the mind she lives in (many live in)...I need to remind myself daily, to not expect anything...But just be thankful for my life and blessings...No matter what she does or doesn't do...If our happiness, or our peace of mind, is in any way attached to the life performance of an add/adhd mind, (or any mental illness) we will live a very miserable life...I've did it for years....
What happens when you start fully accepting (stop questioning or showing any concern, or placing any trust in their ability to follow through) the actions we see and experience? What would happened if my poster friend calmly gave a few minutes of patiently waiting, then checked her phone for a text or missed call....Then (mentally) washed her hands of his failed commitment, and enjoyed her evening? Two things probably happen, both very good....She has a wonderful night w/ her children, because she knew this type of behavior was very possible, when dealing w/ her husband (not her first rodeo)...So what else happens that is good? Well, when she returns home w/ no questions for him as it relates to him being a no show...A light might come on for him!...If anything could help him see himself, that could...(Because the defense he had readied, wasn't needed) Most victim minded people love to control others....They do it, in just this way...The take advantage of people who love them, and show concern for them (people who are willing to engage)....But, what if it is truly mental illness, and in that moment for some reason they had no ability to follow through w/ their promise?? Well, the good news is, acceptance of reality is a win, win, win...You expect it, so your peace, and contentment isn't linked to their (actions) behaviors...If their behavior is intentional (uncaring, and unconcern) then you show them by your healthy life style, that you can't be manipulated, or affected by their life style (because its not yours, and you want own it, and you accept it's who they are) ...And if it is truly an inability,( not intentional) then your acceptance and calmness, concerning the reality of their disorder...(inability to be responsible,, keep their word etc..) want allow for you to turn negative (think they have the ability to live in a way that you call normal)
This type of partner (one you can't put faith in) really shouldn't have access to your well being....Your emotions...Your finances...You shouldn't try to depend on them, when they prove way to often, they aren't trust worthy....I believe in sharing, where sharing is possible and wise....But, I also believe I have to be responsible to my commitments (children, bills, insurance, job etc...) and I refuse to allow someone I can't trust, to hold my livelihood in their hands....All that is more self inflicted pain, built on the faulty illusion, that some how my Spouse has a new mind!....
c
Well... I am planning for separation because I gave up on myself
i can’t please my husband and I am full of flaws and I feel like I’m nothing but a heavy disgusting burden which fills me with guilt , self doubt and self hate
but as a mom I tend to be depressed when he is around and I under perform , his criticism made me hate motherhood
when I realized that my kids are having challenging times I decided not to let our fights influence how I love my children
im artistic and my children are frequently entertained by my educational and creative artcrafts and they learn from me how to be independent, and be cultivated , I always get compliments for my kids personality, manners and intellectual skills ... yes im chaotic , i hate housework , but I am always punctual , I am Always on time , I plan my day around my appointments
i want to be out , my husband will be happier and my kids will not see me getting criticized
i have limits , I know I can manage 2 children more than 2children + my husband
he is organized and structured and I think he needs a cleaner private space for him away from me
my antidepressants are my saviors , I love them !!! They made my life easier and my performance better i See life more beautiful and vibrant because the depression medication
I am also taking ADHD pills which lessened my symptoms but not all of them ,,,
I miss my mom ( who passed away) she loved me despite my annoying ADD symptoms how can I forget her love and caresses... there is no more sunshine since she is gone from my life, I now know that I’ve lost the last person who made me accept myself, for who I am ... but it’s unfair to my husband ... I know
I will never marry again ..... I want to be single for ever
I suspected this was coming but I didn't know for sure. Now it has happened. I thought I would feel a sense of satisfaction -- "He's been caught!" "Now I'm not the only one who knows he's a cheat!" and so on -- but I don't. I feel sad. I feel a little mad. I feel somewhat embarrassed. I'm not concerned about my reputation for honesty; if anything, people who know me probably think I"m annoyingly truthful. Oh, and tomorrow would have been our anniversary (if we were still married).
